TRTWORLD — The Newsmakers
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[00:00:09] This is TRT World, I'm Neil Harvey, and here are our headlines: Iran and
[00:00:13] Oman are finalizing an interim deal on commercial shipping through the straight of
[00:00:17] Holamus, but there are some remaining thorny issues, they include the lifting of a
[00:00:21] US Naval bloccade and transit fees.
[00:00:24] Iran seeking five to seven percent of cargo value,
[00:00:28] Oman has proposed 3%.
[00:00:30] meanwile Donald Trump's hinting a broader deal with Iran could be
[00:00:33] close.
[00:00:35] Yemen's Iran aligned hoothies have confirmed a missile attack
[00:00:39] on yet another Saudi linked oil tanker. The group says that vessel
[00:00:43] was targeted in the Gulf of Aden. On Wednesday, they also
[00:00:46] claim responsibility for attack a Saudi tanker off the coast of the Red
[00:00:50] Sea port of Yambu.
[00:00:52] Israel's military says two soldiers have been killed eight woundeds during combat
[00:00:56] Swiss people vote on this with a in southern Lebanon on the strikes on Wednesday were in retaliation toward
[00:00:59] Israel. described as hezball violations of the seas
[00:01:02] far. this comes as US broker
[00:01:05] peace talks between Israel and Lebanon, how are
[00:01:08] concluding today in Rome, the focus being on the next
[00:01:11] phase of a gradual Israeli withdraw from southern
[00:01:13] Lebanon.
[00:01:16] Israel's forces continue though to storm the calandia refugee camp in the
[00:01:19] occupied west bank with at least 16 Palestinians so far
[00:01:23] injured, 60 people have been
[00:01:25] is only in Switzerland, it's a reality in arrested during Thursday's rates.
[00:01:29] Uganda's parliament. improved deployment of troops to Gaza as part of a proposed
[00:01:32] international stabilization mission, the move following a direct
[00:01:36] request from President Donald Trump to President Yari
[00:01:39] Musevini. The force is part of a broader peace plan unveiled after the
[00:01:43] cease fire reached in October, it would oversee security and humanitarian
[00:01:47] aid efforts in Gaza.
[00:01:50] Three people have been killed in overnight strikes by Russia on Ukraine's eastern
[00:01:54] city of Balaclear in the Harky region. Rescue operations continue
[00:01:57] as teams struggle to clear the Debry. meanwile two people have
[00:02:01] been killed, five wounded in the Ukrainian drone strike on Russia's
[00:02:04] Briansk region
[00:02:07] and Miami's leaders in Thailand on an official visit as Bangkok
[00:02:11] pushes for re-engagement with its wartor neighbor and the regional block
[00:02:14] Asian, the Ama's leaders have been barred from Asyan summit
[00:02:18] since 2021 when Min Angling
[00:02:21] staged the coup against the elected government of Angsan
[00:02:25] Chi that led to a civil war killing an estimated 100
[00:02:29] thousand people.
[00:02:34] They headlines, do stay with us as the news continues.
[00:03:09] Courage or cowardis? Switzerland
[00:03:12] is thinking again about being
[00:03:14] neutral
[00:03:17] and the country's arms industry wants changes to the law so it can
[00:03:21] export weapons more easily.
[00:03:24] We are no longer allowed to sell weapons in in conflict
[00:03:27] countries.
[00:03:30] "what is the price of Swiss neutrality? is it helping
[00:03:33] others by being a peacemaker or simply helping
[00:03:37] itself?
[00:03:41] neutrality the swiss say doesn't mean they're not ready to
[00:03:45] defend themselves.
[00:03:48] i can hit the cast and that will show me the same. all this in a
[00:03:52] country where civilian gun ownership is one of the highest in the
[00:03:55] world.
[00:04:04] so the cost of sitting on the
[00:04:05] sideline, welcome to beyond borders,
[00:04:20] for many Swiss people, shooting is not only a sport, but also
[00:04:24] a way of showing they're ready to defend their
[00:04:27] country.
[00:04:39] the Swiss learns relatively quickly and early to
[00:04:42] use weapons. Already at a very young age, children
[00:04:46] have a different relationship with weapons, so it's
[00:04:50] not something you feel, oh dear, very dangerous,
[00:04:53] but rather you know it's part of the
[00:04:56] tradition. and if they have to fire those weapons
[00:05:00] in anger, it could
[00:05:02] be because as a soldier rather surprisingly tells us,
[00:05:06] the country's military is not up to the
[00:05:09] job.
[00:05:13] with material like tanks, vehicles, systems who will
[00:05:16] die out because they're so old, and right now we are
[00:05:19] already taking all system apart to maintain the
[00:05:23] systems we have right now, we have to to be at four guy, four
[00:05:27] people, four soldiers who will be trained at one light machine
[00:05:30] gun, we have to share all the time all the different
[00:05:33] material, we already share a lot of material and equipment with each
[00:05:37] others, but if the army doesn't have the right equipment we have to live with the
[00:05:41] consequences.
[00:05:45] "a former president of the Swiss National Council, who's running the shooting
[00:05:49] festival, says current rules on neutrality do not mean
[00:05:53] in deference to world events. He points out
[00:05:56] that Switzerland's imposing sanctions on Russia along
[00:06:00] with the European Union, which would not be allowed if the
[00:06:03] neutrality rules are tightened, and the
[00:06:08] referendum in September 2026."
[00:06:14] "as for the state of the country's military, we've just spoken to a
[00:06:17] soldier who tells us the army is falling apart with tanks
[00:06:21] and weapons and if if there was an
[00:06:23] invasion it would be very difficult to defend
[00:06:27] Switzerland, we need more investments in in weapons
[00:06:31] in the security, that's my opinion to, that's a
[00:06:34] reality, but it's not the reality
[00:06:38] a lot of countries in Europe, uh, but at the
[00:06:41] end we have..." to to to take priorities, but it's
[00:06:45] clearly that the army wants always small,
[00:06:48] if no, they wouldn't do the job. the one question I
[00:06:51] have, having spoken to people over quite a long
[00:06:55] time, is how can you export weapons to
[00:06:58] countries and yet still remain
[00:07:01] neutral? yeah, that's the big question that we
[00:07:04] have, but at the end it's always a difficult
[00:07:08] question between strict neutrality and
[00:07:12] between... uh to give
[00:07:15] more more possibilities to our
[00:07:19] enterprises in the army sector, just went like
[00:07:22] that, it's a balancing act, it's a balancing act, and
[00:07:26] yeah, switzerland normally is good on balancy
[00:07:30] acts, switzerland hasn't been involved in a foreign
[00:07:34] war for more than 200 years, but it hasn't
[00:07:37] always been as tranquil as it is
[00:07:40] today, years ago this castle was
[00:07:44] stormed and burned by local people who were worried that it had become
[00:07:48] a citadle for powerful foreign
[00:07:50] force.
[00:07:53] Attack!
[00:07:59] Swiss mercenaries dominated European battlefields for
[00:08:03] centuries, revolutionizing the way that wars were
[00:08:06] four, but some marching movements have
[00:08:10] certainly changed.
[00:08:16] "This event is build as a trucker festival, but is more
[00:08:20] country stomp, meets haybals and
[00:08:22] horsepower,
[00:08:29] here we find a stand where they're explaining the work of the
[00:08:32] country's international peacekeeping
[00:08:34] force, they're currently helping international missions in
[00:08:38] Korea, Kosovo, Bosnia and the Middle East as well
[00:08:41] as across a..." and africa, the work may
[00:08:44] still be allowed, even if the new neutrality law is
[00:08:48] passed,
[00:08:51] as an engineer, a digger driver, this soldier tells me
[00:08:54] he worked to make places that had been mined safe again and
[00:08:58] clear other munitions that have been left behind after
[00:09:02] conflict, yes he says he was
[00:09:05] armed, but that was only for
[00:09:07] self-defense,
[00:09:12] there is simply These activists want
[00:09:15] no army at all, they're also worried about what's
[00:09:19] called the war material act which would see rules
[00:09:23] on arms sold to foreign countries further
[00:09:25] relaxed despite swiss weapons exports already
[00:09:29] having gone up by 50% in
[00:09:31] 2025. The Swiss will vote on this in
[00:09:35] another referendum soon after the neutrality issue is
[00:09:39] decided. There shouldn't be any. it
[00:09:43] with war or with with weapons and with with death
[00:09:47] essentially, if you go to the um
[00:09:49] parliament that lobby of weapons seems
[00:09:53] to be very strong, i think they want to have the cake in 82 because they
[00:09:57] want to be neutral and saying we don't have anything to do with that, but we
[00:10:00] also want to profit. do the two things get tied
[00:10:04] together, the vote on neutrality and the war
[00:10:08] materials issue, do they
[00:10:11] join up? yes, absolutely, because
[00:10:14] it's the the right that wanted those two things, neutrality vote
[00:10:18] and raw material expert, and
[00:10:21] they say we have to be absolutely neutral, but they also... want
[00:10:25] us to be able to send guns to other countries so that doesn't
[00:10:29] really fit together. i think it's a huge
[00:10:32] hypocrisis that switzerland say always say we
[00:10:35] are the the le pays des droits de l'homme, les
[00:10:38] conventions de Genève for example, and at the
[00:10:41] same moment we we just send send war material to to
[00:10:45] countries and those materials are always used
[00:10:48] against the the civil, the
[00:10:50] population.
[00:10:56] "at the military base hosting the shooting festival is one of the Swiss
[00:10:59] weapons manufacturers that's pushing hard for the war
[00:11:02] material
[00:11:05] And the advantage of these weapons is that they take both magazines,
[00:11:09] the Swiss magazine and the magazine
[00:11:11] from time to time,
[00:11:14] we are no longer allowed to sell weapons in conflict countries, yes, but it is very
[00:11:17] difficult to know which
[00:11:21] countries are in conflicts abroad."
[00:11:25] Yeah, but that doesn't depend on me, but they know
[00:11:29] it above.
[00:11:32] stock answer as to why there has to be a strong weapons industry in
[00:11:36] the country is that if there's an attack it can't take for
[00:11:40] granted that help would come from anyone
[00:11:43] outside it is kind of bunker
[00:11:46] mentality and there's plenty of that here in
[00:11:50] real concrete form what do you call
[00:11:53] it a Luftschutzkeller?
[00:11:56] basement room in this house where a family could be
[00:11:59] safe, it's heavy, really
[00:12:01] heavy, it's thick like that, wow, that now
[00:12:05] that's that's massive, look at
[00:12:08] that, so you would come down
[00:12:11] here, that's the idea, in case of real
[00:12:14] danger is this one, you now it's a a thing that has to be
[00:12:17] closed, yeah, in uh case of emergency, and this
[00:12:21] one make sure that we have ventilation inside and that we have air
[00:12:25] inside and at the moment you've got, well,
[00:12:29] just just sports equipment mostly, it's sports equipment, it's you
[00:12:32] know suitcases that we don't need at the
[00:12:35] moment, and and clothes and
[00:12:37] whatsoever, we have to make sure that it can be
[00:12:40] used, so you have to check it, yeah, we have to check it, the
[00:12:44] last uh check by the authority was about three
[00:12:47] years
[00:12:50] ago, there is said to be enough bunkers in the country for every man,
[00:12:54] woman and child, if there's
[00:12:55] trouble,
[00:12:59] they're celebrating 20 years of this one being privately
[00:13:02] owned, it was built during the second world war as an
[00:13:06] army lookout post, a little
[00:13:09] work and it could be a shelter if needed, now
[00:13:13] it's certainly not to my taste, this is the bunker, it's
[00:13:16] gas-tight,
[00:13:21] tight, certainly bulletproof under the
[00:13:23] infrastructure where you can cook, sleep, there are
[00:13:27] water reservoirs,
[00:13:32] deep inside a swiss mountainside with
[00:13:34] village on the plane below, an old army bunker, they would have been behind here, the
[00:13:38] soldiers firing anybody trying to attack them, they would have
[00:13:42] stood behind this great big steel door, poking explosives,
[00:13:45] grenades perhaps through that hole, 1
[00:13:48] kilometer of tunnels down here, it is 9 degrees
[00:13:52] where we are, it is 31 degrees,
[00:13:55] above, it is a different
[00:13:57] world.
[00:14:00] It was in use until the end of the cold
[00:14:02] war.
[00:14:08] These decommissioned weapons are kept in locked store
[00:14:11] room. Single shot is fired
[00:14:13] with medium support fire, you shoot
[00:14:16] forward and then here, then it is
[00:14:20] pressed down and you can shoot the whole series,
[00:14:22] so.
[00:14:55] that's privately owned and is described as an artillery fortress
[00:14:59] able to house 600
[00:15:01] soldiers.
[00:15:05] the Swiss army built 2200 bunkers, that's one of the
[00:15:08] reasons why Hitler never came, because the entry price was too
[00:15:12] high.
[00:15:14] if there's an invasion, if Switzerland is bombed, the owner
[00:15:18] says it's just for him and his
[00:15:20] family. family, my family, and the town, well no, I mean
[00:15:24] not. We don't want to have too many people in here.
[00:15:53] the 85 mes under the rock
[00:15:55] now,
[00:15:57] it was all built in the cold war, so it would pull all the poison, they
[00:16:01] want to make the place nuclear attack proof, safest place in the world right
[00:16:04] now.
[00:16:08] that's it cost you a fortune is it? yeah, yeah, got a lot of money, it's a hobby,
[00:16:12] people, people collect lamborghinis, i got a
[00:16:14] fortress,
[00:16:24] oh wow, wow, this is dark, this
[00:16:27] is
[00:16:28] dark,
[00:16:32] are you proud of Switzerland's neutrality? well, yeah, I hope you're
[00:16:36] going to keep it. Looks like we going to lose it if you join the
[00:16:39] EU,
[00:16:43] and took 10 soldiers to man a cannon, this thing is 48
[00:16:47] kilograms,
[00:16:51] I can hit the cast and shine with this thing.
[00:17:37] how to really defend, an army
[00:17:41] would probably be powerless anyway,
[00:17:43] I hope I'll be able to stay
[00:17:46] for a long time and it will be extremely
[00:17:50] difficult.
[00:17:52] This will
[00:18:01] stand and
[00:18:03] parties, but that we are neutral can mediate between the poles.
[00:18:07] and that's important in the
[00:18:11] foreground, that's a double-edged
[00:18:14] sword, we are
[00:18:17] just world, we are not
[00:18:21] pacifists, so I think we also need to
[00:18:25] find a middle ground, we need
[00:18:28] our own arms industry and also to
[00:18:32] be able to sell to problematic places
[00:18:34] now and then.
[00:18:37] to us many times is that with Switzerland neutral, it can stand
[00:18:41] apart and bring waring parties together, but can
[00:18:44] it do that if it's selling more and more weapons
[00:18:48] abroad?
[00:18:50] if you would describe neutality as it is now in Switzerland, it has
[00:18:54] four characteristics: it's permanent, it's
[00:18:58] backed by military force, it's internationally
[00:19:01] recognized and it is deeply rooted in Swiss
[00:19:05] history and identity, but
[00:19:07] instrument, it is a tool that Switzerland uses in
[00:19:11] order to pursue its objectives of prosperity, of peace,
[00:19:15] of sustainability. 2025, Swiss
[00:19:18] arms exports, weapons exports were around
[00:19:21] one and a quarter billion dollars. It had gone up considerably from the year
[00:19:25] before, so there's a market there, and with more and more
[00:19:27] countries needing more and more weapons because it's a dangerous
[00:19:30] world, it would make sense for
[00:19:33] Switzerland uh from a profit point of view to
[00:19:36] exploit. that is that what's being done? well,
[00:19:40] i think we have to understand the swis economy a little bit better, i think the weapons
[00:19:44] exports are not critical for this economy, so the interest in
[00:19:47] having weapons industry is not the economy, that's a security
[00:19:51] benefit, because if you would engage in a war and you don't have your
[00:19:54] own weapons industry, that puts you in a much more difficult situation. how does
[00:19:58] it benefit Switzerland security to sell tier gas to the United
[00:20:02] States that is used in the suppression of immigrant rants in
[00:20:05] Minneapolis and sell assault rifles to Saudi
[00:20:09] Arabia, well, I do not know these specific cases, but
[00:20:13] both cases are the immigrants, Swiss
[00:20:16] per gas was used in the ice suppression of these rights
[00:20:19] in in Minneapolis, every country is exporting products
[00:20:23] who are sometimes used in in a nice manner, sometimes in a less nice
[00:20:27] manner, are you saying you have rules, yes, which you would like to see
[00:20:31] implemented, but you have no way of absolutely
[00:20:34] ascertaining that the people you sell these to aren't. breakers
[00:20:38] themselves, if if you could impose 100% respect of
[00:20:41] rules, then you wouldn't have mer, you wouldn't have any traffic incidents,
[00:20:45] what you can do as a state to do undertake the maximum efforts, all your
[00:20:48] efforts to... supply to prevent that, and I think
[00:20:52] Switzerland undertakes really the measures to prevent that these arms
[00:20:56] are ending up in a
[00:20:57] conflict.
[00:21:01] The days of swiss mercenary might are being showcased in the grounds of
[00:21:04] this museum, and it's here that we meet a man who's just
[00:21:08] spent two years making a film about Switzerland's position on
[00:21:12] neutrality. He says he found a sense of we're
[00:21:16] better because we're neutral. To mean
[00:21:19] neutrality. is a trademark, is
[00:21:22] this is the only thing we have, it's a kind of um soft power
[00:21:25] for switzerland, but nobody has definition, a
[00:21:29] strict definition of it, and
[00:21:31] probably that's the beauty of it, but
[00:21:35] now it became too broad, I would
[00:21:38] say,
[00:21:40] we still are playing with the rules that we used to
[00:21:43] play, and now we need to redefine it, can you
[00:21:47] export arms, can you? can you
[00:21:50] make some profits about arms and still be neutral? can
[00:21:53] you put some sanctions regarding some countries and remain
[00:21:57] neutral? that the kind of question that we need to address
[00:22:00] and to me it's not possible to be
[00:22:04] neutral, otherwise we could
[00:22:08] have invited hitler to negotiate
[00:22:11] during the second world war at the same level at the
[00:22:13] idealies. so it's not, it's not
[00:22:17] possible to be neutral.
[00:22:29] Unfortunately, the Federal Council, by participating in sanctions against
[00:22:32] Russia, has trampled Swiss neutrality
[00:22:36] underfoot and severely damaged our
[00:22:38] credibility. If this fatal
[00:22:42] flirtation with NATO continues,
[00:22:45] Switzerland risks direct military
[00:22:49] confrontation.
[00:23:50] and neutrality is gone and freedom is also
[00:23:53] gone from the country, independence is gone
[00:23:57] and lake geneva there's a man with completely the opposite
[00:24:00] view, we saw that somehow the
[00:24:04] far right were taking over the
[00:24:07] discussion on what neutrality is, they're trying to say it
[00:24:11] means cooperation with nobody,
[00:24:14] sanctions against nobody, so whatever happens
[00:24:18] independent of which type of war... 'um, we just do
[00:24:21] nothing, say nothing, and make business with everyone, and that's not just about
[00:24:25] being peaceful, is it? that's sometimes about sort of saying, this way I look after
[00:24:29] myself, yes, but what triggered us most is that they were saying
[00:24:33] that this is the traditional neutrality, and it's not, they made out of it
[00:24:36] some sort of a religion, and now they're believers and not
[00:24:40] clear thinking people. two
[00:24:43] different versions of neutrality then to be voted on, one
[00:24:47] that says, yes, we will have armed forces'. we will look out
[00:24:51] only for ourselves and one that says our
[00:24:54] neutrality serves a purpose for others too, and we should
[00:24:58] be able to change depending on what's happening in the
[00:25:00] world. what role should Switzerland
[00:25:04] play? should it ally itself with one
[00:25:07] block against the other, or should it offer to the world a
[00:25:10] platform which could contribute to peace? we
[00:25:14] are a small economy compared to the US or the
[00:25:17] UK, but we're a trusted country. "and that's one
[00:25:20] of a cards, but on the other hand, you keep your
[00:25:23] credibility, because if you want all the
[00:25:26] parties to come to the negotiating table, they need
[00:25:29] to trust the mediator. you are
[00:25:33] not neutral because you declare that you're
[00:25:35] neutral. you're only neutral when the rest of the
[00:25:39] world perceive you or believe that you're neutral, and that's
[00:25:43] why we should be extremely careful and that's why it's in very, very, very difficult
[00:25:47] game to play."
[00:25:52] Perhaps it's all case of too much
[00:25:54] introspection, but there are some for whom this matters a
[00:25:58] daily basis, in this case the Ukrainian and...
[00:26:02] and diaspora, conflict back home is never
[00:26:06] ending concern,
[00:26:09] people experience horrible things and you can do
[00:26:11] nothing. do you have a
[00:26:14] view on whether Switzerland should
[00:26:18] be more involved in helping with
[00:26:21] the uh conflict? i don't think that they want
[00:26:25] not to be involved, you know they they help us lot. i always
[00:26:29] keep in mind that i am in a country of people who don't owe me.
[00:26:32] anything and yet they opened the houses for
[00:26:35] us, they invited us and it would
[00:26:38] be ungrateful to
[00:26:40] be to to expect that people os
[00:26:43] anything,
[00:26:46] from one or other way you need to take sides, even when you say that you are
[00:26:49] neutral, you are still taking a side, right? one thing that i appreciate for
[00:26:53] example with swiss that they don't take neutrality from
[00:26:57] the perspective of indifference or from an emotional
[00:27:00] swing, and they...
[00:27:33] This is not neutrality for me, if it's about whether women are still
[00:27:37] slaughtered, children are born and
[00:27:39] have to
[00:27:42] survive in miserable circumstances.
[00:27:46] If you even question whether you can
[00:27:49] be neutral, it's ridiculous.
[00:27:52] It's political that
[00:27:55] in in in the minds of many
[00:27:59] decides and not the word that says it.
[00:28:03] Neutrality for me is moral neutrality. I must have a
[00:28:06] moral stance in the
[00:28:10] same measure between the misery
[00:28:13] of Ukraine and the misery of the
[00:28:15] Palestinians.
[00:28:21] Austria, Ireland, Costa Rica, Turkmenistan,
[00:28:25] Lichtenstein, Andora and quite a few
[00:28:28] others are all neutral to some extent, and at times the
[00:28:31] united. states has been two,
[00:28:34] Switzerland is not
[00:28:36] alone,
[00:28:39] but claiming to be neutral at the same time as wanting to sell more
[00:28:42] guns and tanks abroad, is what some
[00:28:45] observers find hard to
[00:28:47] reconcile,
[00:28:52] it is certainly food for
[00:28:54] thought.
[00:30:08] This is TRT World, I'm Neil Harvey and here are headlines: Iran and
[00:30:12] Oman are finalizing an interim deal on commercial shipping through the
[00:30:15] straight of Horamouz, but there are some remaining thorny issues, they include the
[00:30:19] lifting of a US Naval blockade and transit
[00:30:23] fees. Iran seeking five to seven percent of cargo
[00:30:26] value. A man has proposed 3%, meanwile Donald
[00:30:29] Trump's hinting a broader deal with Iran could be collected.
[00:30:34] Yemen's Iran aligned hoothies have confirmed a missile attack
[00:30:38] on yet another Saudi linked oil tanker. The group says that vessel
[00:30:41] was targeted in the Gulf of Aden. On Wednesday they also
[00:30:45] claim responsibility for attack a Saudi tanker off the coast of the Red
[00:30:48] Sea port of Yambu.
[00:30:51] Israel's military says two soldiers have been killed eight wounded during combat in
[00:30:55] southern Lebanon on the strikes on Wednesday were in retaliation to what Israel
[00:30:58] described as Hezballah.