TRTWORLD — The Newsmakers
20260920 083000 UTC
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[00:00:09] You're watching TRT World, I'm Katie Pilbeam,
[00:00:11] a reminder now of our main headlines for you: Iran has laid out what it
[00:00:15] wants from the US before the restart of
[00:00:18] of a any negotiations on ending their standoff, and the conflict is well threatening the
[00:00:22] entire region now. Security chief Mazim Razayev says
[00:00:26] seven conditions have been delivered via
[00:00:29] of Qatar, as Donald. Trump prepares to meet golf leaders on the sidelines
[00:00:32] of the UN General Assembly in New York next week. The
[00:00:36] Saudi Led coalition says it's intercepted a hoothy
[00:00:39] ballistic missile targeting Riad and stopped a wider attack
[00:00:43] on several other Saudi cities,
[00:00:45] but the hoothis say their missiles and drones hit sensitive sights in the
[00:00:49] capital and an Aramco facility as well in Yambu causing
[00:00:53] large fires and Israely strike against the
[00:00:57] civilian vehicle in Gaza City has killed at least...
[00:01:00] of one person, this raised the death toll on Saturday alone to
[00:01:03] five people, including other attacks in Jabalya, Nazarat and
[00:01:07] Gaza City. It is the latest Israeli violation to the
[00:01:11] ceastfire signed with Hamas in October last year. More than
[00:01:15] of 1,300 Palestinians have been killed
[00:01:17] of in Israeli attack since that agreement. English
[00:01:21] music star Ed Sheiren has apologized to fans for how he's
[00:01:24] handled the controversy over the dropping of American rapper Macalmore
[00:01:28] from the US tour. or he was
[00:01:30] of removed in after stadium owners objected to comments to
[00:01:34] pro-palestinian comments he made on
[00:01:37] of stage during a performance in New Jersey, we Shiran blamed the tour
[00:01:40] promoter for the move, all of Shiran's remaining opening acts and his band
[00:01:44] as well then pulled out
[00:01:46] of the tour and solidarity with
[00:01:48] Mackhamore, but this week the criticism was about
[00:01:52] something much more important and I've had to take uh and make difficult
[00:01:56] decisions and I
[00:01:57] in am making
[00:01:58] in mistakes and I'm so so so...
[00:02:01] Hundreds of Ukrainian drones have targeted Russia killing at
[00:02:05] least two people, including an election official. Moscow
[00:02:09] has accused Keve of sending over
[00:02:11] of 1600
[00:02:12] of drones towards the country with the aim of
[00:02:15] of disrupting the current elections there. The head of Russia's
[00:02:18] of election Committee says the drone attack targeted a civilian bus
[00:02:21] in the Russian controlled part of Hesson. Our
[00:02:25] of president
[00:02:25] of vom Zelensky has confirmed that the drones also struck an oil
[00:02:29] refinery. Moscow region overnight. Russian air
[00:02:33] defenses have intercepted most of those
[00:02:35] drones. The news continues on TRT
[00:02:39] World.
[00:02:50] of Coming up on this week's review of round table.
[00:02:54] of Israel's diplomatic isolation grows. The EU considers
[00:02:57] a wider trade band after 12. countries agree limited
[00:03:06] of of sanctions, Britain's masked protests, why is anti- migrant sentiment on the
[00:03:10] rise and who is behind the demonstrations?
[00:03:13] keep our jobs here, EU manufacturing in
[00:03:17] crisis, the industry warns of huge job losses and is
[00:03:21] blaming China, and Europe spends billions on maritime
[00:03:25] defense, but will have
[00:03:26] of protected a seas from Russian hybrid attacks.
[00:03:42] of Hello and welcome to this
[00:03:46] week's review of roundtable amenda brady now the European Union is
[00:03:50] considering wider trade sanctions on Israeli illegal
[00:03:54] settlements with its top diplomat Kaye Calas saying it will be a
[00:03:58] principal stance. The Israeli. government is pushing
[00:04:01] of ahead with its E1 settlement, which would effectively split the
[00:04:05] occupied West bank in two. 12 countries, including the
[00:04:08] UK,
[00:04:09] a France, and Canada, have agreed new sanctions on trade with
[00:04:12] illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, so is the
[00:04:16] tide finally turning on Israel. Many
[00:04:20] of these countries have been the stanchest allies of Israel in Europe.
[00:04:24] What does this tell us about how far Israel's standing has
[00:04:27] fallen? Well, it makes me think of Lord
[00:04:30] Palmerston's statement that a country has no
[00:04:34] friends, it only has interests, and I think here is
[00:04:38] case where the United Kingdom and Canada
[00:04:42] and number of other states have found that the
[00:04:45] situation in terms
[00:04:47] of of the legitimacy and the violence that they're witnessing in
[00:04:51] Israel is being responded to by their own public in
[00:04:55] such a way that they have had to step up and change the
[00:04:59] narrative. and so this is in many ways a sea
[00:05:03] change, but we never see international relations moving quickly,
[00:05:06] so I think it's taken a
[00:05:08] a long while to get here, we've anticipated something like this,
[00:05:12] and now it's here, yosi, come in on this, how will this be received in
[00:05:16] Israel, how has it been received? i think especially we are
[00:05:20] time at at election, you see the reaction to it,
[00:05:24] on the one hand, people reject any intervention, because it's
[00:05:27] look like intervention in the election, so there is rejection, we saw the
[00:05:31] overreaction by the Israeli government, definitely the foreign
[00:05:35] minister, and we see the steps, the measure, they they took school,
[00:05:39] closing the the British consulate in in in his Jerusalem.
[00:05:43] them kicking out basically the BST people from from Ramala, the British
[00:05:47] officers there and and and and and the rest. on the other hand, there is
[00:05:50] also understanding that this was as Roxan saying this was on
[00:05:54] coming, because if you think in
[00:05:57] 2019 the EU already
[00:06:01] ask you all to label commodities from from from
[00:06:05] from the from the west bank, so you could see if nothing happened in seven
[00:06:08] years to stop settlements, what you see is actually the...
[00:06:12] increase the building of settlements, the increase of settler
[00:06:16] violence, the terrorism there, and the building of e1, that
[00:06:20] really er anyone, because what it means to two-state
[00:06:23] solution, they feel obliged to react in one way or
[00:06:27] another, and that's what we see, now so there will be
[00:06:31] between how the voters are going to see that, are they
[00:06:35] actually going to internalize that the last four years, three
[00:06:38] years under under the Netanyahu government,
[00:06:42] results in completely breakdown in relations with with friends or
[00:06:46] allies or will develop sige mentality. the world is against
[00:06:50] us, we are not going to do anything about it. thank you Yossi.
[00:06:54] Pablo, to you, your home country of course is Spain. talk to me
[00:06:57] about Spanish public thinking on this one? well, I think like in many other
[00:07:01] countries, certainly the countries that have just announced these measures, this are general
[00:07:05] whitespret feeling against what the
[00:07:08] Israeli government has been doing in the Middle East, and there's certainly lot of...
[00:07:12] negative feelings that was the Netanyahu government, this has been, and we've talked about this in
[00:07:16] the show before, this is always been an easy win to some extent for the Spanish
[00:07:20] government, Pedro Sanchez who's obviously from the central from the socialist
[00:07:23] coalition, so this is always a very big political win for for him and it's
[00:07:27] a very good positioning himself as sort the leader across
[00:07:31] Europe, across the west in this sort of movement, that is his sort of
[00:07:35] effort against what many are seeing as as bad
[00:07:39] actions from the Israeli government, so I think these news comes
[00:07:42] as as very good news to this to Spain and particular to the Pedro Sanchez government who as we know
[00:07:46] has been a little bit of hot water, a little bit of trouble in recent weeks and recent
[00:07:50] months, so this comes as very welcome news and again it helps Spain position itself as
[00:07:54] sort of a leader in this particular for international politics, which I think is good for
[00:07:58] Spain. Thank you. Majed, what seems to have been the tipping
[00:08:02] point here for many these countries is the increasing
[00:08:05] settler violence in the occupied west bank, but what strikes me is very
[00:08:09] strange is that we've seen three years of a genocide in Gaza. and these
[00:08:12] countries didn't move very quickly on that,
[00:08:16] true, actually, we also have to see that settlements have been there for decades
[00:08:20] in Palestine and Israell
[00:08:23] as a has been
[00:08:26] building this settlements for decade, but again the
[00:08:29] international sanctions is the minimum acceptable measure at the
[00:08:33] moment after a genocide when we should have actually tackle the
[00:08:37] system long long
[00:08:39] ago seeing the settle. colonial violence and
[00:08:43] colonial like building,
[00:08:47] settlement building have been there for long time, and also one must
[00:08:51] see that the now, especially after genocide again in my
[00:08:55] opinion, the those countries which is trying
[00:08:58] to adjust their moral, the moral
[00:09:02] corrupt that they could not do to actually where they fail
[00:09:06] to stop the genocide, they now trying
[00:09:09] to respond to the public center. in the
[00:09:13] street
[00:09:14] you know by actually doing this in my opinion this minimum
[00:09:18] response
[00:09:18] you know when they could actually just directly darget the structure which is the
[00:09:22] aparatite regime. thank you madget roxant will
[00:09:26] these sanctions matter a job to Israel? mean a lot of
[00:09:30] critics are saying this is too little too late and largely
[00:09:33] performative. well i think that uh
[00:09:36] certainly the very act of of putting sanctions
[00:09:40] on is symbolically very important. "and clearly why
[00:09:44] there has been quite a few states that have come as a coalition
[00:09:48] behind this, but further, I think that it's really
[00:09:51] important for Britain, you asked about legitimacy
[00:09:55] and and all of that earlier, for Britain and the other states to
[00:09:59] show they have legitimacy uh they can live up to. They have
[00:10:03] been saying for years, as Maget has said that settlement
[00:10:07] shouldn't be put down, that the
[00:10:10] the two-state solution..." is what they support, and that actually
[00:10:14] is the language that's been used this time around,
[00:10:17] that the reason they're putting on sanctions a minimum, perhaps,
[00:10:21] but nonetheless a step much greater than ever. has happened
[00:10:25] before along with comments such as this
[00:10:29] has been an apartite a a genocide and
[00:10:33] apartide regime that the um that
[00:10:37] the at least the government of Britain and these other
[00:10:41] governments can feel as though there's been a consistency of what they've
[00:10:44] said before and that two-state solution is the
[00:10:48] reason why they're doing this to maintain that as viable
[00:10:52] option.
[00:10:57] "violent anti- migrant protests have been unfolding in Britain with
[00:11:01] hundreds of mass demonstrators descending on UK ports.
[00:11:05] public anger over small boat arrivals is growing despite official
[00:11:09] figures showing there's been a drop in numbers, but people
[00:11:12] smugglers are finding new roots to reach the UK and they're using
[00:11:16] mega dingis to pack more migrants into a single
[00:11:19] vessel. the protests have been organized by patriot
[00:11:23] platform, a group launched by man known as Danny Tomo
[00:11:27] who has links to the right-wing activist Tommy Robinson. How
[00:11:30] have you felt seeing these protests, these very threatening and intimidating
[00:11:34] groups of men turning up in balaclavas and masks? how how have
[00:11:38] you felt seeing this? I think it's a it's a
[00:11:42] challenge that we've been seeing for number of years now, so we go back
[00:11:46] at least the last couple of years, we've seen these repeated
[00:11:49] outbursts of protests, whether those were about asylum
[00:11:53] hotels, about specific... areas receiving small boat migrants,
[00:11:57] everything around immigration is now uh is now under a
[00:12:01] spector of of lot of frustration, it's been going on and it's been
[00:12:05] building up for number of years, so I think it's it's not
[00:12:08] necessarily surprising to to see this happen once
[00:12:12] more. why do so many people want to come to the United Kingdom and
[00:12:15] claim asylum when they've traveled through multiple other countries
[00:12:19] across Europe? there's no one single
[00:12:23] reason, there's large number of people who all want to get to
[00:12:27] the UK for a variety of reasons, for some it's
[00:12:31] because they have friends or family here in the UK,
[00:12:34] others just want to get here because the English
[00:12:38] language or because the UK's image as safe
[00:12:42] and welcoming place, there's also the the issue of
[00:12:45] Brexit, now the fact that the UK is no
[00:12:49] longer part the EU's asylum arrangements has
[00:12:52] meant that in some ways the... UK is now a
[00:12:56] form of court of appeals for asylum applications in the
[00:13:00] EU, so we have two situations, either people who've applied
[00:13:04] for asylum somewhere else, whether that's France, Germany, somewhere in the
[00:13:08] EU and have gotten rejected, or we have the case of
[00:13:11] people who've entered the EU through countries like Italy
[00:13:15] and Greece on the southern periphery, they were registered
[00:13:19] there and they risk being sent back to these
[00:13:23] countries of first entry if they... for asylum somewhere else in
[00:13:26] Europe, now because we're no longer part these
[00:13:29] arrangements, that's not a problem in the UK, they
[00:13:33] cannot be sent back, the UK government does not have access
[00:13:37] to databases to tell them if people have been
[00:13:40] rejected asylum elsewhere, for example, and we know that if
[00:13:44] you go and ask people in northern France, they do
[00:13:48] consider that that to be reason, at least some them. thank
[00:13:52] you, claire, you spent years working with there. made when she was home
[00:13:55] secretary in the home office dealing with this issue and obviously she went to become
[00:13:59] prime minister and you worked with her as well, a couple of reports this week and it was one
[00:14:03] from the UN HCR saying that the speed
[00:14:07] the work in the home office right now is far more important to the
[00:14:11] government than the quality um that they're pushing through people
[00:14:15] who not necessarily should be getting asylum, is that your
[00:14:18] experience? no it wasn't, I mean we were dealing with quite a
[00:14:22] large backlog when I was at the home office but no... near the size
[00:14:26] the uh the work in progress field that they have currently,
[00:14:30] it's always going to be a challenging area because you are
[00:14:34] reliant upon other countries giving you information, if somebody states that
[00:14:38] they're from Eritrea or from South Sudan, you have to verify that,
[00:14:41] and those countries are not always the best at record keeping, they're
[00:14:45] not always going to give you the information quickly, so there are number of
[00:14:48] challenges, but I think the home office is just too large in itself, and I
[00:14:52] said for a long time that it needs to be... split, you need to take out
[00:14:56] immigration, make an own standalone department where you can pour the
[00:15:00] resources where you need them at the times that you do need them, because otherwise
[00:15:04] you're just being spread across national security, policing,
[00:15:07] drugs, uh, passports, you name it that comes into the home
[00:15:11] office, so I think that is part the problem that nobody ever seems to want to deal
[00:15:15] with. Is that solution, Sebastian, for you, creating an immigration
[00:15:19] department, because other countries have them, and I'd be interested to see what
[00:15:22] benefits that has, because all of those issues you mention whether. it's um policing or
[00:15:26] drugs, they're all linked with immigration as well, so I would imagine having not worked in the home
[00:15:30] office that you need those people to be speaking each other, um, I know that's reform pledge
[00:15:34] as well to separate it out, but I think the solutions are probably lot more... or
[00:15:37] global as well, it's about working with people, whether they're in Europe or in the Middle
[00:15:41] East, because these are trails that start a long, long way away from the UK and
[00:15:45] end up here, and it's only by keeping those relationships strong that we can, we can
[00:15:49] tackle that that very long problem. Claire, you live in Kent,
[00:15:53] which is huge county in the east of England, Dolver is one the towns there, how are
[00:15:57] local people feeling when they see these gangs of hoodlums turning up in balaletlavas and
[00:16:01] masks? I spoke to number of people when the protest
[00:16:04] happened uh, and they said how intimidating... was uh there
[00:16:08] was somebody in their car going into the town just to do some shopping
[00:16:12] and was stopped at around about by somebody wearing a balaclava dressed in
[00:16:15] black just standing and staring at them and they said this is the
[00:16:19] kind of tactic that you would have seen in belfast in the
[00:16:23] 1970s not Dover in 2026 and all they were trying to
[00:16:27] do was get to the shops so local businesses have suffered there will be
[00:16:31] those who support them support these protesters but I
[00:16:34] think that grinding the town to
[00:16:36] a halt is did, all they managed to stop were freight trucks
[00:16:40] and people coming either back from holiday or going onto their holiday, so they
[00:16:44] weren't that happy about. who is this Danny Tomo guy
[00:16:48] who is on this patriot platform who seems to be
[00:16:51] coordinating lot the anti-migrant response in
[00:16:54] England? he's got an interesting character when you
[00:16:58] look, he um, i understand he met Tommy Robinson
[00:17:02] who is another sort of right-wing agitator in
[00:17:05] prison, so it gives you the... measure of the individual that you're dealing
[00:17:09] with, and he's managed to get a bunch of people who don't
[00:17:13] like anybody coming to this country via any means
[00:17:16] whatsoever, and I have to say the organization for
[00:17:19] Dover was very, very good, Kent police were caught
[00:17:23] completely on the hop, they didn't know it was happening, it was incredibly
[00:17:27] organized, people were coming from long distances, they were disciplined, and
[00:17:31] I think that should be a worry for everybody, how disciplined and
[00:17:35] not that information didn't... leak out in the same way that it
[00:17:38] normally would, so I think that that is a really worrying aspect. I think he
[00:17:42] will do himself more damage, I think that there are a number of legal issues that
[00:17:46] he is caught up in currently, so all these things will come to the force, so whether
[00:17:50] he's going to lead it for much longer, I think remains to be
[00:17:53] seen.
[00:17:58] Now, 300 thousand factory jobs could be lost across the EU
[00:18:02] by end the
[00:18:02] the year. That's the warning from the industry representative,
[00:18:06] Eurometal, which says, growing competition from China is putting
[00:18:10] European manufacturing jobs and supply chains at
[00:18:13] risk. The EU China trade deficit has now reached more than
[00:18:17] billion dollars a day. European Commission president Arcela
[00:18:21] Vonderline warns that Europe faces second China
[00:18:24] shock. Are we looking at the
[00:18:27] deindustrialization of Europe now? Well, we're certainly looking at the
[00:18:31] beginning the deindustrialization of Europe, although to be fair, we
[00:18:35] voluntarily deIndustrialized in
[00:18:37] you know that over the China price in
[00:18:40] globalization we moved low-end manufacture to China because it was
[00:18:44] cheap, that was the first phase of of deindustrialization, the
[00:18:47] shock now is that China's come back with with advanced
[00:18:51] technology and extremely efficient uh
[00:18:54] manufacturing and highly organized supply chains, and it is
[00:18:58] hitting those sectors that Europe thought belong to it,
[00:19:01] so you high-end manufacturing, which in in
[00:19:05] Europe accounts still for... thousands of jobs, particularly in
[00:19:09] Germany, so yeah, it's a worry. Ian, what are you hearing in
[00:19:13] the business news world, how concerned are people? I think this
[00:19:17] is an inevitability, as Isabelle said, I think Mainland
[00:19:21] Europe is going through a process now that the UK probably went through 40,
[00:19:24] 45 years ago, we began deindustrializing a long
[00:19:28] time before Mainland Europe did, and I think they're going through that same
[00:19:32] paint trade now, and it's most obviously going to be played out in sectors
[00:19:36] like automotive. where for example, a country like
[00:19:40] Germany, had they prepared for it adequately would have known that this was
[00:19:43] coming anyway uh, with the transformation to
[00:19:47] EVs, it takes far fewer people to build an electric vehicle
[00:19:51] than it does one with a traditional internal combustion engine, and so to that
[00:19:55] extent countries like Germany ought to have been preparing for this moment
[00:19:58] anyway, and perhaps as Isabel says, it has taken people by
[00:20:02] surprise that China's moved up the value chain, but it oughten to have been
[00:20:06] a surprise. "anyone that's visited China, anyone that's spoken
[00:20:10] to Chinese business leaders, anyone that's spoken to the Chinese
[00:20:13] government, would have told you they were not going to be happy, just sitting there knocking
[00:20:17] out cheap components and cheap goods, they wanted to move up the value chain, and
[00:20:21] that's exactly what's happened, and they have, Philip, to you in Brussels, give us the
[00:20:25] reaction in Brussels then about all these job losses and problems with
[00:20:28] industry across the EU, how worried are
[00:20:31] they? well, in Brussels, policymakers and
[00:20:35] the EU bubble is alarmed of course." because this is really
[00:20:39] now uh touching at the core of of European industrial
[00:20:43] provinces and there is talk about uh you
[00:20:47] know being tougher on China when... comes to trade, when it
[00:20:51] comes to uh,
[00:20:52] you know, imports of EVs of batteries, of other
[00:20:56] machinery goods and chemicals, where European industry has
[00:21:00] so far been leading in the world, and yeah, there is now
[00:21:04] a three-month truce between China and the EU, where there are
[00:21:08] intensive discussions going on, how to move on,
[00:21:12] best, ideally, but while avoiding a trade war, but the
[00:21:16] EU is also ready to to speak,
[00:21:20] suffer language with China, that is at least what we hear for now,
[00:21:24] and there's talk of development of new trade defense
[00:21:27] tools that should allow a more rapid and a
[00:21:30] more, commenturate response to Chinese
[00:21:34] overcapacities, there are based on
[00:21:37] largely often illegal subsidies
[00:21:41] that go against WTO rules and
[00:21:43] also an
[00:21:46] artificially low currency and artificially low running. Thank
[00:21:50] you, Philip. Isabel to you, I saw a quote from a European business leader who
[00:21:54] said, control the supply chain and you own the
[00:21:57] complete value chain. That's pretty much what the Chinese have done to
[00:22:01] European business and industry, isn't it? Uh, pretty much. Yes, so you
[00:22:05] know, of course, nothing is entirely
[00:22:09] uh, straightforward in a trade war, and and these measures are really
[00:22:13] important, it, Europe has been slow to realize what's
[00:22:17] happening, it's been all western economies have been. slow to realize
[00:22:21] they actually need industrial policy at this point, you
[00:22:24] know, it was way out of fashion during globalization, those days are over.
[00:22:28] we're now facing moment in which China has a bigger share of global
[00:22:32] manufacturing than the United States had in 1945, and if
[00:22:36] you think what other and other economies were like in
[00:22:39] 1945, just after World War II, you know, this
[00:22:43] China has achieved without World War II, so we
[00:22:47] are a we are a very, very difficult... moment when the sheer
[00:22:51] scale of China, the the the fact that China has prepared
[00:22:54] for 15, 20 years to do to lessen
[00:22:58] its dependency on on external
[00:23:02] inputs and to control supply chains, it's in very, very
[00:23:06] powerful position, because it controls key components that that that
[00:23:10] everybody else needs to manufacture, that said, it also needs
[00:23:14] markets and at the moment nobody's making money in China, it's an absolute
[00:23:18] cut throat competition, they're all cut. prices because there is
[00:23:21] insufficient consumer activity in China, so
[00:23:25] everybody has problems and they could get worse with the trade
[00:23:29] war, but we we shouldn't assume that all the cards are in China's
[00:23:32] hands.
[00:23:37] Europe seas are becoming new frontline as tensions with Russia
[00:23:41] escalate. The EU and its member states have spent around
[00:23:45] $130 billion dollars on maritime defense over the past
[00:23:48] decade. "the oceans are particularly vulnerable due to the
[00:23:52] sub-sea cables which carry more than 95% the
[00:23:56] world's telecom data. so what are the challenges Europe
[00:24:00] is facing? sean to you, first of all, where are the
[00:24:04] threats coming from then? yeah, I mean, one thing to remember is that
[00:24:08] we've got some maritime experts here, but the vast majority of global trade moves via
[00:24:12] the oceans and therefore you need to be able to protect that. the main threats
[00:24:16] are the critical national infrastructure. we've got lots of cables and pipelines under..." the
[00:24:20] ocean, we've also got GPS that can be jammed from the ocean as
[00:24:23] well, and we're also seeing certainly
[00:24:25] in the UK, lot of Russian uh oil tankers, the sanction fleats
[00:24:29] are making their way through, and therefore you need to have capability against them,
[00:24:33] critically, for the cold war and I'm a cold war veteran, um,
[00:24:37] we used to be looking our main focus on anti-submarine warfare, we recognized that the
[00:24:41] sub-surfice threat was really dangerous, but over the years we've lost the
[00:24:45] ability to do that as credibly as we used to be able to, and threats like Russia
[00:24:49] and China, but most... particularly Russia has something like 50
[00:24:52] attack submarines available, we've got five, and most of
[00:24:56] those are actually not serviceable and they're all concurrently in being worked on, so
[00:25:00] we do have a significant shortfall in our military capability in the
[00:25:04] maritime environment. Jean Francis, to you, I
[00:25:07] read an extraordinary statistic this week, 90% of
[00:25:11] Europe's trade goes via the sea. We are hugely,
[00:25:15] hugely dependent on our waters. Are we doing enough to protect
[00:25:18] them? i will i will give the the wishy-washy
[00:25:22] answer of yes and no. um, i think the investment that we're seeing at the
[00:25:26] moment uh are a good uh that there are good
[00:25:30] steps. um, what i a little bit unclear about and i
[00:25:33] think it's it's touching on on some points that that we're having here is that the
[00:25:37] choices that we're making at the moment to defend and and
[00:25:41] to be to be clear um my my day today is to look
[00:25:45] mostly at the north sea and the baltics um
[00:25:49] but when you look at these two environments, the way the way the
[00:25:53] geography and and the sea works,
[00:25:56] um, frigates are not necessarily
[00:26:00] the most uh... well prepared
[00:26:03] platform to defend for example
[00:26:05] the the Baltics uh
[00:26:07] but I'm yet to see and you see it piece meal lets and right left
[00:26:11] and right um but I think especially in the EU
[00:26:14] um I'm yet to see very
[00:26:17] strong argument being made for
[00:26:21] uncrued vehicle maritime especially um that
[00:26:25] could that could either be fielded in conjunction with frigate and
[00:26:28] submarine for example uh or also as part the main
[00:26:33] strategy uh moving forward. Mark to
[00:26:36] you, what's your assessment of how secure our
[00:26:40] European Cs are? in some ways i
[00:26:44] think it's tying the other two speakers points, it's
[00:26:48] like as if the ocean saked up and snook
[00:26:51] up on us and we just realizing how much of our infrastructure is
[00:26:54] ocean-based, our communications cables our energy
[00:26:58] interconnectors, our sea lines communications in terms of trade.
[00:27:02] "they're all converging on the oceans and I've often said that state
[00:27:06] security is inextrickably linked with economic security, which
[00:27:10] is inextrictly linked with energy security, and our oceans
[00:27:14] are a key component of that, so I'm concerned
[00:27:17] that the architecture in terms of law the sea convention from
[00:27:21] 1982 and its subsequent amendments is no longer fit for
[00:27:25] purpose in the context of what we see today, Europe in particular is
[00:27:29] engaged a full-scale hybrid war and much of that. centered
[00:27:33] on the ocean and just to tie into your last speaker there, we need
[00:27:36] a lot more situational awareness in the context the
[00:27:40] complexity of activities that are at sea, so we are quite
[00:27:44] vulnerable. Sean to you, Europe is spending money on
[00:27:48] defense like never before, or not in living memory anyway,
[00:27:52] is enough of it going to see? I think a lot of it's down to
[00:27:56] priority priorities, I've been off to Ukraine fairly regularly, and you go
[00:27:59] through Poland and they feel the heat. the Russian
[00:28:03] invasion far more than we ever do over here through the lens of
[00:28:07] history, but also because obviously it's right on their border, and therefore
[00:28:11] they're investing heavily, but in land forces, in tanks and air
[00:28:14] and they're less worried about the maritime environment, we
[00:28:17] traditionally in the UK have been a mari time nation, we've been a
[00:28:21] maritime power, so whilst lot of Europe tends to look east we really need
[00:28:25] to be looking west and north, and therefore it feels like
[00:28:28] nationally and with some of our Nordic partners, France and... Spain
[00:28:32] and Italy, all of which you have so key maritime borders, but
[00:28:36] actually that's where it's a different priority, and I do think you can't just sort of say
[00:28:40] NATO or Europe here, you have to have subsets of where
[00:28:44] our responsibility lies, because we're seeing in the UK, when it's the
[00:28:48] Antar, um, just off our shores, where it's the Russian submarines and
[00:28:51] their test submarines lautering over under sea cables, whether it's
[00:28:55] aircraft coming over, we're feeling that heat a lot more than I would say
[00:28:59] Poland does, for example.
[00:29:05] 'well that's it for me for the week, remember you can see more discussion and debate on our
[00:29:09] YouTube channel, search for roundtable, TRT World, and if you like what
[00:29:13] you see there, please do hit that subscribe button, you can also listen to
[00:29:17] select episodes wherever you get your podcasts, but for now from me and the
[00:29:20] brady and all the team here, goodbye and thank you for
[00:29:24] watching,
[00:29:31] is just coming in to TRT'.
[00:29:55] The truth is coming to light. This is
[00:29:58] one story that will touch millions of
[00:29:59] people.
[00:30:09] You're watching TRT World, I'm Katie Pillbeam, reminder now of our main
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