TRTWORLD — The Newsmakers
20260920 203000 UTC
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[00:00:04] a
[00:00:14] You're watching TRT World, I'm Hazm Seaker,
[00:00:16] a reminder of our main headlines. Iran's central military command
[00:00:20] says the US is planning for another round of attacks. Trump says he has a
[00:00:24] big decision to take in the coming
[00:00:27] of a days. Iran has vowed to retaliate against any US attack. saying it will not
[00:00:31] hesitate to target US bases and interests in the region and
[00:00:35] countries who support the
[00:00:38] of attacks are completely clear,
[00:00:41] rational and non-negotiable. our messages and
[00:00:45] conditions have been conveyed explicitly to the other side through
[00:00:49] intermediaries, and the enemy knows full well that
[00:00:53] the path of deception and unilateral imposition is
[00:00:56] a closed. israeli war planes have bomb
[00:01:00] locations in southern Lebanon, they targeted the towns of Bani Hayan
[00:01:04] and the Alcantara in the Marjayun district
[00:01:07] of the country south. Israel
[00:01:09] of repeatedly breaches the US bank security deal with
[00:01:12] Lebanon. Yemen's ansarullah houtis continue to
[00:01:16] trade fire and accusations with Saudi Arabia. The Iran
[00:01:20] Grapback group claims Saudis launch 28 strikes
[00:01:24] of across the country since Saturday. It comes
[00:01:25] of after black smoke was seen in the Saudi capital over the airport.
[00:01:30] an Israeli strike against the civilian vehicle in Gaza City has killed at
[00:01:34] least one person that's raised death toll on Saturday alone to five
[00:01:38] people killed
[00:01:39] of in in other attacks in Jabalia, Nuseirat and Gaza
[00:01:43] City. It is the latest Israeli violation to the
[00:01:46] of seasfire signed with Hamas in October last
[00:01:48] year. A huge wave of Ukrainian drones have
[00:01:52] been launched at Russia in one
[00:01:54] of the biggest attacks
[00:01:55] of the year so far. More than 450 targeted Moscow where at
[00:01:59] least two people were... killed in strikes on apartment blocks. An oil
[00:02:03] refinery was also hit in the early morning attacks causing several
[00:02:06] in large fires.
[00:02:08] of Ukrainian drones also hit a bus in Kerson in the Russian controlled
[00:02:12] region of Ukraine, killing two, one
[00:02:15] of them, an election official. German
[00:02:19] chancellor
[00:02:20] of friedrich Metz's CDU
[00:02:23] of of party has crashed out of parliament in a northeastern state after suffering suffering heavy loss
[00:02:26] of in local elections. He see to defeat. to the far
[00:02:30] right AFD, according to exit poles, merts center right
[00:02:34] of of secured just 4.9%
[00:02:35] of the vote below the 5% needed to enter
[00:02:38] parliament, that's according to the latest polls marking a historic
[00:02:42] low for the party. The news continues on
[00:02:45] TRT World after round
[00:02:47] table.
[00:03:02] of of Coming up. This week's review of roundtable, Israel's diplomatic isolation grows, the EU considers
[00:03:06] a wider trade band after 12 countries agree limited
[00:03:15] of of sanctions. Britain's masked protests, why is anti- migrant sentiment on the
[00:03:18] rise and who is behind the demonstrations? Keep
[00:03:22] our jobs here. EU manufacturing in crisis,
[00:03:26] the industry warns of huge job losses and is
[00:03:29] of blamed. China and Europe spends billions on
[00:03:33] maritime defense, but will have
[00:03:34] of protected a seas from Russian hybrid
[00:03:37] attacks.
[00:03:51] of Hello and welcome to this
[00:03:55] week's review of round table, I'm Enter Brady, now the European Union is
[00:03:58] considering trade sanctions on Israeli illegal
[00:04:02] settlements with its top diplomat Kaya Calas saying it will be a
[00:04:06] principal stance. The Israeli government is pushing
[00:04:10] of ahead with its E1 settlement which would effectively split the
[00:04:13] occupied West bank in two. 12 countries, including the
[00:04:17] UK, France, and Canada, have agreed new sanctions on
[00:04:20] trade with illegal Israeli settlements in the occupied West bank.
[00:04:24] So is the tide finally turning on
[00:04:27] Israel? Many
[00:04:29] of these countries have been. stanchest allies of Israel in Europe,
[00:04:33] what does this tell us about how far Israel's standing has
[00:04:36] fallen? well, it makes me think of Lord
[00:04:39] Palmerston's uh statement that a country has
[00:04:42] no friends, it only has interests, and I think here is
[00:04:46] case where the United Kingdom and Canada
[00:04:50] and number of other states have found that the
[00:04:54] situation in terms
[00:04:56] of of the legitimacy and the violence that they're witnessing in
[00:05:00] uh Israel is being responded to by their own public
[00:05:04] in such a way that they have had to step up and change the
[00:05:08] narrative and so this is in many ways a sea change
[00:05:12] but "we never see international relations moving quickly, so
[00:05:16] I think it's taken a long while to get here, we've anticipated
[00:05:19] something like this, and now it's here. Yossi, come in on this,
[00:05:23] how will this be received in Israel, how has it been received? I think
[00:05:27] especially we are time
[00:05:29] at at election, you see the reaction today, on the one
[00:05:33] hand, people reject any intervention, because
[00:05:36] it looks like intervention in the election, so there is rejection, we saw the
[00:05:40] overreaction by the Israeli govern'. definitely the foreign
[00:05:44] minister and we see the steps, the measure they they took school
[00:05:47] closing
[00:05:48] the the British consulate in
[00:05:50] in in his Jerusalem, kicking out basically the BST people from from
[00:05:54] Ramala, the British officers there and and and and the rest. on
[00:05:58] the other hand there is also understanding that this was as Roxan saying this
[00:06:02] was on coming, because if you think
[00:06:05] in 2019 the EU
[00:06:08] already ask you all to
[00:06:11] label. that is from from from from the from the west
[00:06:14] bank, so you could see if nothing happen in seven years to stop
[00:06:18] settlements, what you see is actually the increase the
[00:06:22] building of settlements, the increase of settler violence, the
[00:06:25] terrorism there, and the building of e1, that really irked
[00:06:29] anyone, because what it means to two-state solution, they feel
[00:06:33] obliged to react in one way or another, and that's what we
[00:06:37] see, now so there will be between how the voters are
[00:06:41] going to see... that are they actually going to
[00:06:45] internalize that the last four years, three
[00:06:47] years under under the Netanyahu government
[00:06:51] results in completely breakdown in relations with with friends
[00:06:55] or allies or will develop sige mentality, the world is against
[00:06:59] us, we are not going to do anything about it. thank you Yossi.
[00:07:02] Pablo, to you, your home country of course is Spain, talk to me
[00:07:06] about Spanish public thinking on this one? well, I think like in many other
[00:07:10] countries, certainly the countries that I've just announced. measures this are general white
[00:07:14] spread feeling uh against what the Israeli
[00:07:18] government has been doing in the middle east and there's certainly lot of uh negative
[00:07:21] feelings towards a Natanyahu government. This has been and we've talked about this in the show
[00:07:25] before, this is always been an easy win to some extent for the Spanish government,
[00:07:29] Pedro Sanchez who's obviously from the center left from the socialist coalition.
[00:07:33] So this is always a very big political win for for him and it's a very
[00:07:37] good positioning himself as sort the leader across Europe,
[00:07:40] across the west in this. sort of movement that is his sort of
[00:07:44] effort against what many are saying as as bad
[00:07:48] actions from the Israeli government, so I think these news comes as as very good
[00:07:52] news to
[00:07:52] this to Spain and particular to the Pedro Sanchez government, as we know
[00:07:55] has been a little bit of hot water, a little bit of trouble in recent weeks and
[00:07:59] recent months, so this comes as very welcome news and again it helps Spain position
[00:08:02] itself as sort of a leader in this particular for international politics, which I think
[00:08:06] is good for Spain, thank you,
[00:08:09] Mad, what seems to have been the tipping point here for many these countries. is the
[00:08:13] increasing settler violence in the occupied west
[00:08:16] bank, but what strikes me is very strange is that we've seen three years of a
[00:08:20] genocide in Gaza, these countries didn't move very quickly on
[00:08:24] that. true, actually, we also have to see that
[00:08:27] settlements have been there for decades in Palestine and
[00:08:30] Israell as a
[00:08:34] has been building this settlements for decade, but again
[00:08:38] the international sanctions is the minimum acceptable measure
[00:08:42] the... after a genocide when we should have actually tackled
[00:08:45] the system long long
[00:08:48] ago seeing the settler colonial violence and settler
[00:08:52] colonial like building settle
[00:08:56] settlement building have been there for a long time and also one
[00:08:59] must see that the now especially after genocide again in my
[00:09:03] opinion the those countries which is trying
[00:09:07] to adjust their moral the moral
[00:09:11] corrupt that they could not do. to actually where they fail
[00:09:14] to stop the genocide, they now trying to
[00:09:18] respond to the public sentum in the street you
[00:09:22] know by actually doing this
[00:09:24] in my opinion this minimum response
[00:09:27] you know when they could actually just directly darget the structure which is the
[00:09:31] aparatite regime. thank you madget roxant will
[00:09:35] these sanctions matter a job to Israel, mean a lot of
[00:09:39] critics are saying this is too little too late and largely performative.
[00:09:43] "well, I think that, certainly the very
[00:09:47] act of of putting sanctions on is symbolically
[00:09:50] very important, and clearly why there has been quite a few
[00:09:54] states
[00:09:54] that have come as a coalition behind this,
[00:09:58] but further, I think that it's really important for Britain, you
[00:10:02] asked about legitimacy and and all of that earlier, for
[00:10:06] Britain and the other states to show they have
[00:10:08] legitimacy uh, they can live up to, they have been saying..." for
[00:10:12] years, as Mad has said, that settlement shouldn't
[00:10:16] be put down, that the the
[00:10:20] two state solution is what they support, and that actually is the
[00:10:23] language that's been used. this time around that the reason they're
[00:10:27] putting on sanctions a minimum perhaps, but nonetheless
[00:10:31] a step much greater than ever has happened before
[00:10:34] along with comments such as this has
[00:10:38] been an apartie a genocide and an apartide
[00:10:42] regime, that the that
[00:10:45] the least the government of Britain and these other
[00:10:49] governments can feel as though there's been a consistency of what they've
[00:10:53] said before, and that... two-state solution is the
[00:10:57] reason why they're doing this to maintain that as viable
[00:11:01] option.
[00:11:06] violent anti- migrant protests have been unfolding in Britain with
[00:11:10] hundreds of mass demonstrators descending on UK ports.
[00:11:14] public anger over small boat arrivals is growing despite official
[00:11:18] figures showing there's been a drop in numbers, but people
[00:11:21] smugglers are finding new roots to reach the UK and the... using
[00:11:25] mega dingis to pack more migrants into a single
[00:11:28] vessel. the protests have been organized by patriot
[00:11:31] platform, a group launched by man known as Danny Tomo who
[00:11:35] has links to the right-wing activist Tommy Robinson. how have
[00:11:39] you felt seeing these protests, these very threatening and intimidating groups
[00:11:43] of men turning up in balaclavas and masks? how how have you
[00:11:47] felt seeing this? i think it's a it's a challenge
[00:11:51] that we've been seeing for number of years now, so we go back to... at least the
[00:11:55] last couple of years, we've seen these repeated outbursts
[00:11:59] of protests, whether it was were about asylum hotels,
[00:12:03] about specific areas, receiving small boat migrants, everything
[00:12:07] around immigration is now uh is now under a spector
[00:12:11] of of lot of frustration, it's been going on and it's been building up
[00:12:14] for number of years, so I think it's it's not necessarily
[00:12:18] surprising to to see this happen once more, why do so many
[00:12:22] people want to come to the United Kingdom and claim asylum when they've traveled
[00:12:26] through multiple other countries across
[00:12:28] europe? there's no one single
[00:12:32] reason, there's a large number of people who all want to get to
[00:12:36] the UK for a variety of reasons, for some it's
[00:12:40] because they have friends or family here in the UK,
[00:12:43] others just want to get here because the English
[00:12:47] language or because the UK's image as safe
[00:12:51] and welcoming place. there's also the the issue of Brexit.
[00:12:55] "now the fact that the UK is no longer part the
[00:12:59] EU's asylum arrangements has meant that in some ways
[00:13:03] the UK is now a form of court of appeals for
[00:13:07] asylum applications in the EU, so we have two situations,
[00:13:11] either people who've applied for asylum somewhere else, whether that's
[00:13:15] France, Germany, somewhere in the EU and have gotten
[00:13:18] rejected, or we have the case of people who've
[00:13:21] entered the EU through countries like Italy and Greece. on
[00:13:25] the southern periphery, they were registered there and they
[00:13:29] risk being sent back to these countries of first entry if
[00:13:33] they apply for asylum somewhere else in Europe. now because we're no
[00:13:37] longer part these arrangements, that's not a problem in
[00:13:41] the UK, they cannot be sent back, the UK government does
[00:13:44] not have access to databases to tell them
[00:13:48] if people have been rejected asylum elsewhere, for
[00:13:51] example, and we know that if you go and ask people,
[00:13:55] in northern France, they do consider that uh that to be reason, at
[00:13:59] least some them. Thank you. Claire, you spent years working
[00:14:03] with Theresa May when she was home secretary in the home office dealing with this
[00:14:07] issue, and obviously she went to become prime minister and you worked with her as well. A
[00:14:11] couple of reports this week on that was one from the UN HCR saying
[00:14:14] that the speed the work in the home office right now
[00:14:18] is far more important to the government than the quality um that
[00:14:22] they're pushing through people who not necessary. should be getting
[00:14:26] asylum? is that your experience? no, it wasn't. mean, we
[00:14:29] were dealing with quite a large backlog when i was at the home office, but
[00:14:33] nowhere near the size the the work in progress field that they
[00:14:37] have currently. it's always going to be a challenging area
[00:14:41] because you are reliance upon other countries giving you
[00:14:45] information. if somebody states that they're from Eritrea or from South
[00:14:48] Sudan, you have to verify that. and those countries are not always
[00:14:52] the best at record keeping, they're not always going to... give you the information quickly,
[00:14:56] so there are number of challenges, but I think the home office is just too
[00:15:00] large in itself, and I said for a long time that it needs to be
[00:15:03] split, you need to take out immigration, make an own standalone
[00:15:07] department where you can pour the resources where you need them at the times that
[00:15:11] you do need them, because otherwise you're just being spread across national
[00:15:14] security, policing, drugs, uh, passports, you
[00:15:18] name it that comes into the home office, so I think that is part the problem that nobody
[00:15:22] ever seems to want to deal with, is that a... solution, Sebastian, for you,
[00:15:26] creating an immigration department, because other countries have them, and
[00:15:30] I'd be interested to see what benefits that has, because all of those issues you mention, whether
[00:15:33] it's um, policing or drugs, they're all linked with immigration as well. "I would
[00:15:37] imagine having not worked in the home office that you need those people to be speaking each other.
[00:15:41] Um, I know that's reform pledge as well to separate it out, um, but I think the solutions are
[00:15:45] probably lot more global as well, it's about working with people, whether they're
[00:15:49] in Europe or in the Middle East, because these are trails that start a long, long
[00:15:53] way away from the UK and end up here, and it's only by keeping those relationships
[00:15:56] strong that we can
[00:15:58] we can tackle that that very long problem. Claire, you live in Kent,
[00:16:02] which is huge county in the east of England, Dolver is one the towns there, how are
[00:16:06] local people feeling when they see the..." gangs of Hudlums turning up in ballotlavas and
[00:16:09] masks. I spoke to number of people when the protest
[00:16:13] happened uh and they said how intimidating it was - there
[00:16:17] was somebody in their car going into the town just to do some
[00:16:20] shopping and was stopped at around about by somebody wearing a balaclava
[00:16:24] dressed in black just standing and staring at them and they said
[00:16:28] this is the kind of tactic that you would have seen in Belfast in the
[00:16:31] 1970s not Dover in 2026 and all they were trying
[00:16:35] to do was get to the shops so local businesses have suffered, there will be
[00:16:39] those who support them, support these protesters, but I
[00:16:43] think that grinding the town to a halt is they did, all they
[00:16:47] managed to stop were freight trucks and people coming either back from
[00:16:51] holiday or going onto their holiday, so they weren't that happy about it. Who was
[00:16:55] this Danny Tommo guy who is on this patriot
[00:16:58] platform who seems to be coordinating lot the
[00:17:02] anti-migrant response in England? He's got an
[00:17:05] interesting character when you look. he um, i
[00:17:09] understand he met Tommy Robinson who is another sort of
[00:17:12] right-wing agitator in prison, so it gives you the measure
[00:17:16] of the individual that you're dealing with, and he's managed to get a
[00:17:20] bunch of people who don't like anybody coming to this country
[00:17:24] via any means whatsoever, and I have to say the
[00:17:27] organization for Dover was very, very good, Kent police
[00:17:31] were caught completely on the hop, they didn't know it was happening, it
[00:17:35] was incredibly organized, people were coming from... distances, they were
[00:17:38] disciplined, and I think that should be a worry for everybody, how
[00:17:42] disciplined and not that information didn't
[00:17:46] leak out in the same way that it normally would, so I think that that is a really worrying
[00:17:50] aspect. I think he will do himself more damage, I think that
[00:17:53] there are a number of legal issues that he is caught up in currently, so
[00:17:57] all these things will come to the force, so whether he's going to lead it for much longer, I
[00:18:01] think raines to be
[00:18:02] seen.
[00:18:07] Now 300 thousand factory jobs could be lost across the EU by the
[00:18:11] end the year, that's the warning from the industry representative,
[00:18:14] Eurometal, which says growing competition from China is putting
[00:18:18] European manufacturing jobs and supply chains at
[00:18:22] risk. The EU, China trade deficit has now reached more than
[00:18:25] billion dollars a day. European Commission president, Arcela
[00:18:29] Vonderlion warns that Europe faces second China
[00:18:33] shock. Are we looking at the deindustrialization? of
[00:18:37] Europe now, well, we're certainly looking at the beginning the deindustrialization of
[00:18:41] Europe, although to be fair, we voluntarily deindustrialized
[00:18:45] in, you know, the over the China price, in
[00:18:49] globalization, we moved low-end manufacture to China because it was
[00:18:52] cheap, that was the first phase of of deindustrialization, the
[00:18:56] shock now is that China's come back with with advanced
[00:19:00] technology and extremely efficient
[00:19:03] manufacturing and highly organized supply chains, and it is hitting
[00:19:08] those sectors that Europe thought belong to it, so
[00:19:11] high-end manufacturing, which in in Europe accounts
[00:19:15] still for thousands of jobs, particularly in Germany, so yeah,
[00:19:19] it's a worry. Ian, what are you hearing in the business news
[00:19:23] world, how concerned are people? I think this is an inevitability, as
[00:19:27] Isabelle said, I think Mainland Europe is going through a
[00:19:31] process now that the UK probably went through 40, 45 years ago,
[00:19:35] we began deindustrializing a long... time before Mainland Europe
[00:19:39] did, and I think they're going through that same paint trade now, and it's
[00:19:42] most obviously going to be played out in sectors like automotive,
[00:19:46] where for example, a country like Germany, had they
[00:19:50] prepared for it adequately would have known that this was coming
[00:19:53] anyway, with the transformation to EVs, it
[00:19:56] takes far fewer people to build an electric vehicle than it does one
[00:20:00] with a traditional internal combustion engine, and so to that extent
[00:20:04] countries like Germany ought to have been preparing for this moment. Anyway, and
[00:20:08] perhaps as Isabel says, it has taken people by surprise that
[00:20:12] China's moved up the value chain, but it oughten to have been a
[00:20:15] surprise. Anyone that's visited China, anyone that's spoken to
[00:20:19] Chinese business leaders, anyone that's spoken to the Chinese government,
[00:20:23] would have told you they were not going to be happy just sitting there knocking out cheap
[00:20:26] components and cheap goods, they wanted to move up the value chain, and that's
[00:20:30] exactly what's happened, and they have Philip, to you in Brussels, give us the
[00:20:33] reaction in Brussels then about all these job losses and problems with...
[00:20:37] industry across the EU, how worried are
[00:20:40] they? well, in Brussels, policy makakers
[00:20:44] and
[00:20:44] the EU bubble is alarmed of course, because this is really
[00:20:48] now touching
[00:20:49] at the...
[00:20:50] of of European industrial prowers and there
[00:20:54] is talk about you know um being tougher on
[00:20:58] China when it comes to trade, when it comes to you know
[00:21:01] imports of EVs of batteries of other
[00:21:05] machinery goods and chemicals where European industry has
[00:21:09] so far been leading in the world and uh yeah there is now
[00:21:13] a three-month truce between China and the EU where there are
[00:21:17] intensive discussions going on how to move on uh
[00:21:21] best ideally while avoiding a trade war, but the
[00:21:24] EU is also ready to to speak
[00:21:28] tougher language with China, that is at least what we hear for
[00:21:32] now, and there's talk of development of new trade
[00:21:35] defense tools that should allow a more rapid
[00:21:38] and a more, commenturate response to
[00:21:42] Chinese overcapacities, they are based on
[00:21:46] largely often illegal subsidies that...
[00:21:50] go against uh WTO rules and also a
[00:21:53] uh you know uh an art artificially low currency and artificially
[00:21:57] low r. thank you Philip. Isabel to you, I saw a quote from a
[00:22:01] European business leader who said, "control the supply chain and
[00:22:05] you own the complete value chain. That's pretty much what the
[00:22:09] Chinese have done to European business and industry, isn't it? Uh, pretty
[00:22:13] much. Yes, so you know, of course,
[00:22:16] nothing is entirely uh straightforward in a trade war." and and these
[00:22:20] measures are are really important, it Europe has been
[00:22:24] slow to realize what's happening, it's been all western
[00:22:28] economies have been slow to realize they actually need industrial policy
[00:22:31] at this point,
[00:22:32] you know, it was way out of fashion during globalization, those days are
[00:22:36] over, we're now facing moment in which China has a bigger share of
[00:22:40] global manufacturing than the United States had in
[00:22:43] 1945, and if you think what other other
[00:22:47] economies were like in 1945, just after world... two,
[00:22:51] you know, this China has achieved without World War
[00:22:54] II, so we are in, we are a very,
[00:22:57] very difficult moment when the sheer scale of
[00:23:00] China, the the fact that China has prepared for
[00:23:04] 15, 20 years to do to lessen its
[00:23:07] dependency on on external
[00:23:11] inputs and to control supply chains, it's in very, very
[00:23:15] powerful position because it controls key components that that that
[00:23:19] everybody else needs to. manufacture, that said, it also needs
[00:23:22] markets and at the moment nobody's making money in China, it's an absolute
[00:23:26] cut throat competition, they're all cutting prices, because there is
[00:23:30] insufficient consumer activity in China, so
[00:23:34] everybody has problems and you know they could get worse with the trade
[00:23:37] war, but we we shouldn't assume that all the cards are in China's
[00:23:41] hands.
[00:23:46] Europe's seas are becoming new frontline as tensions with Russia
[00:23:50] escalate, the EU and its member states have spent around
[00:23:53] $130 billion dollars on maritime defense over the past
[00:23:57] decade. The oceans are particularly vulnerable due to the
[00:24:01] sub-sea cables which carry more than 95% the
[00:24:05] world's telecom data. So what are the challenges
[00:24:09] Europe is facing? Sean to you first of all, where are
[00:24:12] the threats coming from there? Yeah, I mean, one thing to
[00:24:16] remember is that we've got some maritime experts here, but the vast majority of global...
[00:24:20] moves via the oceans and therefore you need to be able to protect that. the
[00:24:24] main threats are the critical national infrastructure, we've got lots of cables and
[00:24:28] pipelines underneath the ocean. we've also got GPS that can be jammed from
[00:24:32] the ocean as well, and we're also seeing certainly
[00:24:34] in the UK lot of Russian uh oil tankers, the sanction fleet
[00:24:38] are making their way through, and therefore you need to have capability against them.
[00:24:42] critically, for the cold war and I'm a cold war veteran, we
[00:24:46] used to be looking at main focus anti submarine warfare, we recognize that the...
[00:24:50] service threat was really dangerous, but over the years we've lost the
[00:24:53] ability to do that as credibly as we used to be able to do, and threats like Russia
[00:24:57] and China, but most particularly Russia has something like 50
[00:25:01] attack submarines available, we've got five, and most of
[00:25:05] those are actually not serviceable on, they're all concurrently in being worked on, so
[00:25:09] we do have a significant shortfall in our military capability in the maritime
[00:25:13] environment. Jean-fançois, to you, I read an
[00:25:17] extraordinary statistic this week, 90% of... Europe's
[00:25:20] trade goes via the sea, we are hugely, hugely
[00:25:24] dependent on our waters, are we doing enough to protect
[00:25:27] them? I will, I will give the the wishy washy answer
[00:25:31] of yes and no, um, I think the investment that we're seeing at the
[00:25:35] moment are a good uh,
[00:25:38] that there are good steps, um, what I'm a little bit unclear
[00:25:42] about and I think it's it's touching on on some points that that we're having here is
[00:25:45] that the choices that we're making at the moment to
[00:25:49] defend and... and to be to be clear
[00:25:52] um my my day today is to look mostly at the North Sea and the
[00:25:55] Baltics um but when you look at these two
[00:25:59] environments the way the way the geography
[00:26:03] and and the sea works um frigates are not
[00:26:07] necessarily the
[00:26:07] most uh well
[00:26:11] prepared platform to defend for example
[00:26:14] the the Baltics uh but I'm yet to see and you see it piece meal
[00:26:18] lefts and right left and right um but I think especially
[00:26:22] in the EU um I'm yet to see
[00:26:25] very strong argument being made
[00:26:29] for uncrued vehicle maritime especially.
[00:26:33] um that could that could either be fielded in conjunction with
[00:26:37] frigate and submarine for example or also as part the
[00:26:41] main strategy uh moving forward.
[00:26:44] mark,
[00:26:45] to you, what's your assessment of how secure our European
[00:26:49] seas are? in some ways i think
[00:26:53] it's tying the other two speakers points, it's like as
[00:26:57] if the ocean sneak sneak up and snook up on us and we just
[00:27:00] realizing how much of our... infrastructure is
[00:27:03] ocean-based, our communications cables, our energy
[00:27:07] interconnectors, our sea lines communications in terms of trade,
[00:27:11] they're all converging on the oceans and I've often said that state
[00:27:14] security is inextricably linked with economic security, which
[00:27:18] is inextrictly linked with energy security, and our oceans
[00:27:22] are a key component of that, so I'm concerned that
[00:27:26] say the architecture in terms of law the sea convention from
[00:27:30] 1982 and its subsequent. is no longer fit for
[00:27:34] purpose
[00:27:34] in the context of what we see today, Europe in particular is engaged a
[00:27:38] full-scale hybrid war, and much of that is centered on the
[00:27:41] ocean, and just to tie into your last speaker there, we need
[00:27:45] a lot more situational awareness in the context the
[00:27:49] complexity of activities that are at sea, so we are quite
[00:27:52] vulnerable. Sean, to you, Europe is spending money on
[00:27:56] defense like never before, or not in living memory anyway,
[00:28:00] is enough
[00:28:01] of it going on? see, I think a lot of it's down to
[00:28:04] priority priorities, I've been off to Ukraine fairly regularly, and you go
[00:28:08] through Poland and they feel the heat the Russian
[00:28:12] invasion far more than we ever do over here through the lens of
[00:28:16] history, but also because obviously it's right on their border, and therefore
[00:28:19] they're investing heavily, but in land forces, in tanks and air
[00:28:23] and they're less worried about the maritime environment, we
[00:28:26] traditionally in the UK have been a maritime nation, we've been a
[00:28:30] maritime power, so whilst lot of Europe tends. look east, we really need
[00:28:33] to be looking west and north, and therefore it feels like
[00:28:37] nationally and with some of our Nordic partners, France and Spain and
[00:28:41] Italy, all of which you have so key maritime borders, but
[00:28:45] actually that's where it's a different priority, and I do think you can't just sort of say
[00:28:49] NATO or Europe here, you have to have subsets of where
[00:28:53] our responsibility lies, because we're seeing in the UK, when it's the
[00:28:57] Yantar and just off our shores, where it's the Russian submarines and
[00:29:00] their test submarines, over under sea cables, whether it's
[00:29:04] aircraft coming over, we're feeling that heat a lot more than I would say
[00:29:08] Poland does, for
[00:29:09] example,
[00:29:14] well that's it for me for the week, remember you can see more discussion and debate on our
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[00:30:07] World.
[00:30:16] Iran's army warns of eminent US attack in the coming days,
[00:30:20] the central military command says it will
[00:30:22] retaliate. Tehran says it also wants
[00:30:26] negotiations to restart and warns failure to end the
[00:30:30] war means the straight of Homus will stay close.
[00:30:34] Hello, welcome to TRT World Live from Istanbul, I'm Hazm Seaker, also
[00:30:38] head on the program, the United Russia party is on
[00:30:42] course to win the country's general election as Ukraine launches a
[00:30:46] massive attack targeting several cities, including
[00:30:48] Moscow, and German chancellor
[00:30:52] Friedrich, Friedrich Mert's CDU fails to win a
[00:30:55] state parliament election, the worst defeat in 77
[00:30:59] years, the CDU also lost ground in Berlin.