TRTWORLD — Roundtable
20261012 150000 UTC
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[00:00:10] You're watching TRT World, I'm
[00:00:11] a Chafer Hustan, the
[00:00:13] a headlines: hundreds of flights out of Saudi Arabia's capital are being cancelled
[00:00:17] after the main airport came under attack for second day. The Saudi energy
[00:00:21] minister has described the strikes by hoothies from neighboring Yemen as serious
[00:00:25] and needing equally serious response. The airport has been hit
[00:00:29] three times. five days killing 16 people, damage assessments and
[00:00:33] safety inspections are underway. Israeli forces have
[00:00:37] launched a drone attack on
[00:00:38] a refugee camp in the south
[00:00:39] of the gaza strip, killing two palestinians. paramedics say several people
[00:00:43] were wounded in the attack which struck the area near the city of
[00:00:46] rafa. israel's military is
[00:00:49] of continuing to expand its so-called yellow line in the east of Gaza city. the line
[00:00:53] divides Gaza into two zones, an eastern area under Israeli military
[00:00:57] oversight and a western area where Palestinians can't move with few
[00:01:01] fewer restrictions. President volodimir Zelensky
[00:01:04] of says Russia has attacked Ukraine's energy facilities despite the truth announced by President
[00:01:08] Donald Trump. The US president had earlier announced an oil deal with
[00:01:12] Moscow. Russian strikes hit the second largest city of Harkive killing six
[00:01:16] people and injuring nine on Sunday.
[00:01:19] of President Zelensky says Kief will retaliate if Russia does not agree to the energy
[00:01:22] cease fire. If Russia wants us
[00:01:26] of to stop our long-range strikes against. It's
[00:01:30] oil refineries and oil exports, then
[00:01:34] Russia must stop its strikes against
[00:01:37] our energy system. India's
[00:01:41] opposition parties have marched to the Supreme Court in support
[00:01:44] of the youth lead Cookro Janta movement. They are all calling for the resignation
[00:01:48] of the election commission chief over the removal of 130 million people from the
[00:01:52] voters role. A state of
[00:01:54] of emergency was declared in parts of Pakistan on Sunday as thousands continued to
[00:01:58] protest in support of jailed form. for prime minister Imran Khan
[00:02:01] demonstrators took to the streets in Kaibar Pakhtun Kwarthwestern province
[00:02:05] governed by Imran Khan's PTI party. Imposing state of
[00:02:09] emergency brings
[00:02:10] a that province under direct federal
[00:02:12] control. Americans Michael Woodford of
[00:02:16] Columbia University and Robert Hall of Stanford have been awarded the Nobel
[00:02:20] Prize for Economics this year. In separate studies they are
[00:02:24] honored for showing how individual behavior shapes efforts to steady entire
[00:02:28] economies.
[00:02:32] That's all for now, the news continues here on TRT World, do stay with
[00:02:34] us.
[00:02:38] Strat breaks down Turkia's place in the
[00:02:41] world, triggering power shift that
[00:02:45] of is transforming
[00:02:46] a volatile
[00:02:46] region.
[00:02:51] Stray talk, understanding the challenges facing Turkia
[00:02:55] and how it's adapting to a changing
[00:02:57] world.
[00:03:02] Straight talk
[00:03:03] of on TRT
[00:03:06] of World.
[00:03:11] of
[00:03:17] The British
[00:03:17] of Prime Minister has floated the possibility
[00:03:20] of the UK rejoining the European Union. Andy
[00:03:23] Burnam says leaving the EU did more harm than good and is prepared
[00:03:27] to
[00:03:28] of go all the way, but does the UK really
[00:03:31] of want to reverse
[00:03:32] brexit?
[00:03:43] of
[00:03:48] hello and welcome to roundtable. i'm de brady. now for the first time since
[00:03:52] the UK left the European Union, a British prime minister is putting
[00:03:56] the full range of options back on the table from closer.
[00:04:00] cooperation
[00:04:00] of with of Brussels, rejoining the single market, customs
[00:04:04] in union, or potentially EU membership itself.
[00:04:07] Despite European leaders welcoming Andy Burnam's comments about moving
[00:04:11] closer to the EU, they're also making it clear Britain can't just
[00:04:15] pick up and choose which parts the EU it
[00:04:18] wants.
[00:04:25] of January 2020, the UK leaves the
[00:04:30] of of European of Union. Since then, Brexit has delivered new relationship with
[00:04:33] Brussels, but
[00:04:34] of created barriers for trade and businesses. Now,
[00:04:38] more than 10 years on from the vote, Prime Minister Andy Burnam says
[00:04:42] it's time to reopen the debate over EU membership.
[00:04:46] Brexit has done more harm than
[00:04:50] of good. We need to restore a higher
[00:04:53] level of growth and
[00:04:55] of prosperity for Britain. He stopped short of calling
[00:04:58] of for immediate referendum.
[00:05:12] certainly welcome it, but back in Britain, reaction is
[00:05:15] divided, reform UK leader Nigel Farage, who spearheaded the
[00:05:19] Brexit campaign, pleid to fight back. It's extraordinary, isn't it, a prime
[00:05:23] minister that wants unity, well the idea that referendum
[00:05:27] on the European Union will bring unity, it will bring the opposite complete
[00:05:30] division, public mood may be shifting though, latest polling of
[00:05:34] more than 11,000 brits showed 49% of voters
[00:05:38] support rejoining the EU, while 28.5%
[00:05:42] posed: why we left us beyond me from the
[00:05:46] first place, so I would love to go back, to go back it would kind of undermine
[00:05:50] democracy, but then that comes a point where enough's enough, I think they
[00:05:54] charge us enough lot of money to rejoin and um make us
[00:05:58] for gave a broken glass, but hey, us leaving was one the
[00:06:02] biggest catastrophes, I think it'd be good for the country, be good for the
[00:06:05] economy, be good for the workforce. European leaders have made it
[00:06:09] clear that any move back, short of full membership, would come with
[00:06:13] conditions? you cannot pick and choose among the freedoms the
[00:06:17] European Union and you cannot decide to take what suits
[00:06:20] you and not the rest. the UK and
[00:06:24] EU are due to meet for a summit in November, where Britain's post
[00:06:28] brixit relationship could take its next
[00:06:31] turn.
[00:06:35] well, let's meet our guests to discuss this one. joining me here in the studio, we have
[00:06:39] Adam Bolton, the political editor and broadcaster. Zoey
[00:06:43] Grunevalt is a political journalist and James Lions is
[00:06:47] Downing Street's former Director of Strategic Communications that was in Kier
[00:06:51] Starmer's government. You're all very welcome to this round table. Adam, I think we can
[00:06:55] agree Brexit was damaging, chaotic, toxic,
[00:06:59] call it what you want. Here we go again. Well, certainly
[00:07:02] the the Brexit debate, the argument around it and the inability to dissolve
[00:07:06] it for to resolve it for the 10 years afterwards was very damaging.
[00:07:09] And - Andy, Andy Burnham has, if you like, taboo, he
[00:07:13] has been the first prime minister of rather lot we've had
[00:07:17] recently to actually open up the argument to
[00:07:20] say, should we reconsider brexit, should
[00:07:23] we uh actually say already that we should have closer
[00:07:27] relationships with Europe, so uh that is
[00:07:30] certainly uh going to kick off debate, although it's important to
[00:07:34] say that his position is that there
[00:07:38] will be national discussion after which he will put a...
[00:07:42] posal in the labor manifesto at the next election
[00:07:46] uh and assuming he has time to do all that, that could be a long way
[00:07:50] short of actually saying rejoin, although it's possible it could could say
[00:07:54] rejoin or have another referendum. so to you, why is Andy Burnham
[00:07:58] doing this now? well, I think uh, it was quite clear in Andy Burnham's speech
[00:08:02] that he was almost kind of calling the electorats bluff, he essentially
[00:08:05] said, look, you might not like everything I've said today, but at least I'm saying something, at
[00:08:09] least I want to do some radical things and and try and enact. and change, I'm
[00:08:13] hearing that you're sick of Westminster, I'm hearing that you're sick the status quo, and I want to
[00:08:16] try and maybe undo some the mistakes, whether it's social care,
[00:08:20] whether it's Brexit, whatever, so I think he, he has people
[00:08:24] around him advisors, I mean
[00:08:26] you who are telling him about the economic impact of Brexit, he also linked
[00:08:29] in his speech Brexit to our inability to control immigration in
[00:08:33] this country as well, he talked about how it had actually not caused us to take
[00:08:37] back control, but for things to get worse when it came to our borders, so he has number of
[00:08:41] arguments there. but I think also he needs to find something to unite the
[00:08:45] left. Labor's lost quite a lot of support to the libdems, to the greens,
[00:08:49] particularly when K Stam was Prime Minister, and I think they're looking at reform and they're
[00:08:53] thinking, what battle do they want to fight? Well, maybe one of those things that can bring the
[00:08:57] left together again is actually rejoining or at least closer alignment with the EU,
[00:09:01] so I think there is a political strategy here as well as just following the
[00:09:05] economic damage and the damage to our immigration policy as
[00:09:08] well. Thanks, so James, whatever about uniting the left, it strikes me that...
[00:09:12] "this prime minister really needs to unite the kingdom, is this the kind of debate that can
[00:09:16] any way bring British people together again? well, I think what's very important for this
[00:09:20] prime minister is to bring the labour party together, we all know the circumstances in
[00:09:24] which Andy was installed in in Downing Street, and there's been a
[00:09:27] remarkable lack of kind of ranchor or anger within the Labor Party over that, and
[00:09:31] in part that's because of some excellent party management. You've seen this with the issue of
[00:09:35] Europe, you've also actually seen it with the issue of um Israel where
[00:09:39] there were announcing sanctions ahead the party conference." so I think um it's
[00:09:43] certainly about uniting um labor and if you look it alongside some
[00:09:47] the other things that Andy was talking about at the party
[00:09:50] conference, he was talking about Europe, he was talking about proportional representation,
[00:09:54] he was talking about social care, that sounds remarkably like the Liberal
[00:09:57] Democrats, on that point Adam, just talk to me about
[00:10:01] how damaging it has been to the UK economy, like
[00:10:05] they're talking what 6% of a hit to GDP, yeah I mean the
[00:10:09] estimate is that we've lost something like 6% year. to
[00:10:12] GDP and had that money been there, then the pressures on
[00:10:16] defense and elsewhere would would not have been there,
[00:10:20] and it's also very clear that, the reason for that
[00:10:24] economic hit. is that trade with Europe has been severely damaged, quite a
[00:10:28] lot of businesses have simply stopped trading with Europe or gone out of business
[00:10:32] all together because that was their main market,
[00:10:35] and another function, I think of of
[00:10:39] what Andy Burnham did uh was to put
[00:10:43] down a dividing line with the parties on the right, because of
[00:10:46] course Nigel Farage now heading reform UK was the absolute
[00:10:50] champion of Brexit, and those who remain in the tory...
[00:10:55] party, the toy party was split on the matter at the time, but those who
[00:10:59] can be bade not prepared remain all have to
[00:11:02] argue rather impossibly that Brexit has been a
[00:11:05] success. sorry to you, James mentioned the liberal democrats, they
[00:11:09] are pro Europe, they campaigned the last election and the one
[00:11:13] before it to go back in. do you think we're
[00:11:16] seeing the emergence of a future coalition
[00:11:20] government between labor and the libdems? it's interesting, I mean whether
[00:11:24] it would be a, an actual coalition as we know it,
[00:11:27] making up the government is one question, but I think some kind of
[00:11:31] electoral pact, where the kind of official or non-official is something that people are talking
[00:11:35] about, you know, on the one hand you have what is forming as
[00:11:38] as a real idea on the left, um, whether it be throughout labor,
[00:11:42] liberal democrats, greens, maybe there might have to be a stop reform
[00:11:46] coalition where you know there is an agreement, then in some seats they just can't
[00:11:49] let um the left-wing vote split and then reform comes into the
[00:11:53] middle, but what would labour have to offer to the lib dems or the
[00:11:57] greens to try and sure up that support? mean, an alliance with the greens is looking less
[00:12:01] and less likely as time goes on, but the lib dems, edvy when he when he
[00:12:05] uh joined this parliament, he said i want to be a constructive friend to labor, and that was
[00:12:09] when keer Starma was in power, so what would labour offer the
[00:12:13] Lib Dems and the greens? well, proportional representation is one, that is something that the greens
[00:12:17] have long been calling for and people on the left the party as well, and
[00:12:20] closer alignment with the EU and social care, as as as James said, that's absolutely...
[00:12:25] what the lib dems are campaigning on, james, how do you think Nigel Farage will be feeling about
[00:12:29] this, because he's always making positive sounds that policy from
[00:12:33] burnham is basically the kind of boost he's been looking for after very
[00:12:36] difficult few weeks and months, I think he will be very haartened by it, it's a it's an
[00:12:40] argument he wants to fight on on his own terrain, and actually um for all that
[00:12:44] the polling shows now that people have decided Brexit hasn't worked,
[00:12:48] actually people are still voting very much along Brexit lines if you look back at
[00:12:52] the kind of last um -
[00:12:55] local uh results, um, I don't think there needs to be
[00:12:59] any kind of formal electoral pactter, the voters, as
[00:13:03] ever are way ahead of Westminster, and if you look at the by-elections that
[00:13:07] have happened um in recent times, barring obviously Nigel's
[00:13:11] battle with the bin uh down in Clecton, um, reform have
[00:13:14] lost to uh the Greens and to Labor in England, they've lost to the Tories and the
[00:13:18] SMP in Scotland, and they've lost to the Welsh Nationalists in Wales, which
[00:13:22] tells you that voters are already.
[00:13:25] an anti-reform alliance. Adam, how important is it for the UK
[00:13:29] to move closer to Europe when we see a changing world, America's
[00:13:32] changed, China flexing its muscles, even Canada wanting to be part
[00:13:36] the European Union associate members. How important do you think it is for
[00:13:40] Britain to get back in? Well, fact matter
[00:13:43] is - European Union is Britain's biggest market, and
[00:13:47] so economic terms it makes a lot of sense, and
[00:13:50] now uh, we have the whole question the threat from Russia
[00:13:54] uh. and defense
[00:13:58] coalitions forming, I mean my own feeling is that
[00:14:01] actually rejoining uh the European
[00:14:05] Union is very, very long way uh in the
[00:14:08] future uh because uh Brexit changed an awful
[00:14:12] lot, I mean first of all
[00:14:14] we in this country we talk about yes we could rejoin Europe,
[00:14:18] well actually an awful lot of feelings and
[00:14:22] perceptions of Britain were affected by the...
[00:14:33] came out in the conflict in Iraq of saying
[00:14:36] really really quite offensive things
[00:14:40] and this also about France and Germany and and what we felt about them and so
[00:14:44] although some the centrist leaders in France and Germany are saying
[00:14:48] yes we would welcome Britain back those countries have got
[00:14:52] problems their own the governments are changing. and you
[00:14:56] know on top of that
[00:14:59] um we in this country
[00:15:02] probably we do want a trade alliance, we want
[00:15:06] greater co cooperation with europe on defense, but
[00:15:10] actually do we want to go back into the political superstructure, join
[00:15:14] the euro, which we'd probably have to do, might be a good
[00:15:18] idea, but would be a bit of sell to get rid the pound,
[00:15:21] and would we want to become a major contribution to the European? budget
[00:15:25] again, because presumably uh the thatcher rebate would be off the
[00:15:29] table, so I think there's going to be lot of practical
[00:15:33] moving closer, which will actually be the one thing the European Union said
[00:15:37] you couldn't. do which will be cherry picking, but I think that's a much more likely
[00:15:40] course than Britain saying, oh we've
[00:15:43] forgotten, we're just going to rejoin, not least, because
[00:15:47] presumably the main opposition parties, if labour is still in
[00:15:51] power, would be saying, well, if we go back in, we're going to come out again, so
[00:15:55] why should the Europeans sign up for something like that? thank you, Adam, sorry to
[00:15:59] you, how do you think Brussels feels about the prospect of Britain wanting to
[00:16:02] rejoin? I mean, would they even have the UK back? I think this is
[00:16:06] a really good... point and it's essentially what Adam was been to there, which is on the
[00:16:10] one hand, we might be thinking, this
[00:16:12] is decision that we'd like to make ourselves and people may have changed
[00:16:16] their minds, but you can't undo what's happened in the last 10 years, all the conversations
[00:16:20] that we had as and we're saying the comments that were made about France, about
[00:16:24] Brussels, about Europe as institution, also there is
[00:16:28] incentive there from Brussels to not let us in again easily, because they don't want
[00:16:32] everyone to think, oh they can hop out and they can hop back in when they've decided actually it's quite
[00:16:35] tough out there in the big wide world. so um you can absolutely imagine a
[00:16:39] scenario where we end up maybe with a worse deal than when we originally went
[00:16:43] in, and if you have to try and explain that to the
[00:16:47] country, it's going to be very, very difficult to sell. what we do have on our side is
[00:16:51] the fact that
[00:16:51] it is a change it is a changed world from where it was 10 years ago, the
[00:16:55] US is one the biggest factors in that, they aren't the ally that
[00:16:59] we necessarily thought they would be when we originally voted to leave uh
[00:17:03] Europe and the rest the world can see that
[00:17:05] there is of course the conflict in Europe as well. Russia's illegal
[00:17:09] invasion of Ukraine, which has changed the goal post here slightly,
[00:17:13] so I think there are incentives for us to get closer to Europe on
[00:17:16] both sides, but I think Adam is absolutely right that it isn't going to be one
[00:17:20] referendum that takes us back in on the same terms that we were originally in. I think what's
[00:17:24] going to be more likely is series of treaties over number of years that
[00:17:28] alliance is moving closer and closer together and us detangling
[00:17:32] ourselves as much as we can from the US and showing up our alliances
[00:17:36] in Europe. James, "you worked very closely in Downing Street with the
[00:17:39] previous Prime Minister, is there an argument that if Andy Burnham
[00:17:43] wins the next election, that he can say to the British public, we don't
[00:17:47] need to have referendum on this, I'm the prime minister, this is my
[00:17:51] government, and we're going back in. I think I think it um, it
[00:17:55] depends right, if you put it in the manifesto, I think you you could
[00:17:59] do that, but that is uh,
[00:18:02] that is increasing
[00:18:03] the risks at the general election, if
[00:18:05] you like, and I think..." referendums are pretty
[00:18:09] tough uh pretty tough things to to go through um it's not
[00:18:13] just the uh Brexit referendum it's also if you remember
[00:18:16] the the Scottish independence referendum and the the reverberations are
[00:18:20] still being felt from that north the border now so these
[00:18:24] are huge decisions for Andy Burnham to make um
[00:18:28] I'll be honest with you I'm not sure he knows what he's going to does do he
[00:18:32] right know Adam he I think you need big change in
[00:18:35] external circumstances I mean If for
[00:18:38] example, Russia attacks
[00:18:42] NATO, if Britain, unlike other
[00:18:45] countries goes into major economic collapse and has to be bailed
[00:18:49] out, and that means that majority, not
[00:18:53] just majority, but a super majority the British public
[00:18:56] think, Europe are our only allies around here, Americans aren't going to
[00:19:00] support us, we've got to rejoint, I think in those crisis
[00:19:03] circumstances you could see a...
[00:19:07] minister being able to take a position and say right, we're going back in and
[00:19:11] we're not having any argument, but I just don't think we got there yet, so we just just
[00:19:15] one point, the money, has the divorce bill been settled, does Britain
[00:19:19] still owe the EU money, does the EU owe Britain money, do we, I mean,
[00:19:23] these are all questions that will need to be hashed out right, and
[00:19:26] and when you look at the figures, they're so, they're so monumental, and there is always a cost to
[00:19:30] everything, there is huge economic price tags having left the EU, there would be
[00:19:33] huge one, I'm sure to rejoining again, but I just want to pick up on something that
[00:19:36] Adam said, which I think gets... really to the core the stupidity of Brexit, which it was
[00:19:40] the fact that the decision to leave the EU was so monumental, it was
[00:19:44] so complex, it was so incredibly detailed that reducing it to yes or
[00:19:48] no
[00:19:48] referendum,
[00:19:55] and we are going live now to the Turkish Capital Ankara where Turkia's
[00:19:58] president
[00:20:00] is is speaking after holding cabinet meeting, let's listen
[00:20:03] in. I would like to pray for
[00:20:07] the... souls of 11 of our citizens who
[00:20:11] lost their life in this tragic traffic accident
[00:20:15] taking place in Manisa and i also wish my condolences to
[00:20:19] their lot ones and their families. 13
[00:20:22] of our 26 injured citizens have been
[00:20:26] discharged, two them are in ICU and
[00:20:30] 13 of our brothers and sisters are still under
[00:20:33] treatment. i wish every one them
[00:20:36] speedy. and
[00:20:40] hope and pray that God would never show such calamity whatsoever
[00:20:44] again toplantının
[00:20:48] a have recently completed the
[00:20:51] 73rd cabinet meeting. In today's
[00:20:55] cabinet meeting we discussed the important agenda items
[00:20:59] of our country and our nation, and we exchange our
[00:21:03] views regarding to those important
[00:21:05] matters.
[00:21:15] Our country and our region,
[00:21:17] the working life, social policies.
[00:21:20] have we adopted in our cabinet meeting, i would like
[00:21:36] seeing with the to decisions remind
[00:21:36] that briefly what we have done in the last week
[00:21:40] as we serve our people and our nation, my dear brothers and
[00:21:43] sisters, 28
[00:21:47] dönem 5 yasam
[00:24:20] attended the opening ceremony the 77th international space
[00:24:24] congress, which was held for the first time in
[00:24:27] Turkia. this congress has been organized
[00:24:30] in Antalia and we have come together with the experts the air fields
[00:24:34] from 111 countries. as the republic of turkey we want to be
[00:24:38] stronger in space
[00:24:40] and in order to develop our own space technologies
[00:24:43] we have been putting lot of efforts and
[00:24:45] endeavors within the framework the moon
[00:24:49] researches.
[00:25:28] in the same program, in the same
[00:25:31] event, we have handed over the awards
[00:25:34] to the people have won
[00:25:38] the academic excellence in their fields. hope and pray
[00:25:41] that the new academic year will be alpicious for our students, for
[00:25:45] our professors and by taking this opportunity i would like to congratulate all
[00:25:49] those
[00:26:02] have attended the international justice summit which
[00:26:06] was organized with the following team: the summit of
[00:26:10] justice a shared responsibility for humanity. this is
[00:26:14] crystal clear fact, today the crimes are not
[00:26:18] perpetrated within the boundaries of a single country.
[00:26:22] whether it be a terrorist organization member, whether they are
[00:26:26] drag traffickers, anyone who perpetrates
[00:26:30] a crime will not be
[00:27:03] 736 criminals to our country, it doesn't matter where
[00:27:07] they hide, as long as they are on the lives and the
[00:27:10] assets of our
[00:27:11] people,
[00:27:32] length of this high speed rail line is
[00:27:36] 229 kms and the longest
[00:27:40] section of this railline
[00:27:42] (Çerkezköy)
[00:27:46] have been completed when all the segments
[00:27:50] of this project is completed the travel time from
[00:27:54] halkal to kapukule will be reduced
[00:27:56] from
[00:28:02] four
[00:28:02] hours 30 minutes.
[00:28:23] 9.5 million tons, by taking this opportunity i
[00:28:27] would like to congratulate all those who contributed to the
[00:28:30] realization of this project.
[00:30:32] ideological Let because me dogmas. state their the following openly and bluntly: every time
[00:30:36] when we utter the word urban
[00:30:40] transformation, there are some people who are accusing us
[00:30:43] of making unearned income and we are fed up with
[00:30:47] their groundless
[00:30:48] accusations.
[00:30:53] has the right
[00:30:57] No to one play with the lives of
[00:30:59] people our