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20260811 213000 UTC
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[00:00:06] El Siadi, the World Bank's arbitration body, ruled its first
[00:00:09] verdict against Spain in May for non-compliance with the Energy
[00:00:13] Charter, which commits signatory
[00:00:15] plus houses, meaning states to guaranteeing stable, equitable,
[00:00:17] favorable, and transparent conditions for
[00:00:20] investors.
[00:00:24] led to a substantial reduction in It's not that Spain is one of the most sued countries, it's that it's the most sued country in the world in international
[00:00:27] arbitrations at the World Bank, right? It's that we are world
[00:00:31] leaders in making a fool of ourselves because all the countries in the world have
[00:00:34] proven that in Spain the king's word in the
[00:00:38] official state gazette is worth nothing. What a financier cannot
[00:00:41] say is that they didn't know there was a tariff deficit and
[00:00:44] they didn't know there wasn't a bubble and they didn't know
[00:00:47] What that half of the world's renewables were being installed in Spain at prices that
[00:00:50] no one else was paying. To say they didn't know that means they
[00:00:54] weren't doing their analyst homework well, so legal
[00:00:58] uncertainty is a later excuse.
[00:01:04] kW, and therefore, the fixed part of
[00:01:08] He visits the Senate today to present his short film "The Path of the
[00:01:12] Sun," invited by the Podemos senators on the Energy Committee of the
[00:01:16] Upper House. We have a country
[00:01:19] that
[00:01:21] belongs to everyone.
[00:01:25] The tireless actor continues to demand justice on behalf of the thousands
[00:01:29] of families who tried to enter the Spanish electricity business,
[00:01:34] is to produce 100% of the dominated by five large
[00:01:34] companies.
[00:01:38] One analyzes it from the outside and sees that
[00:01:42] pie, that pie of the energy
[00:01:45] lobby,
[00:01:47] significant number of buildings constructed in our country,
[00:01:48] We pay various tolls and where there were four or five companies, right? And suddenly
[00:01:51] we, a few mice, came to
[00:01:54] eat from that little piece of pie
[00:01:58] meaning to the work of architecture and and what in principle was nothing were the crumbs of... Watch
[00:02:00] out, watch out, watch out, it will be shown that this pie
[00:02:04] is being sold much more expensive than it's worth, that these
[00:02:07] gentlemen are starting to scratch and they are going to hurt us
[00:02:10] a lot. This is what happened to the Western Roman
[00:02:14] Empire, right? That the electrical estate
[00:02:18] was an estate of very few and suddenly it has been assaulted by
[00:02:21] thousands of barbarians.
[00:02:24] The Spanish electricity oligopoly is made up of five large companies that
[00:02:28] control 60% of electricity production and
[00:02:32] 90% of commercialization. The
[00:02:35] turnover of these five companies is around 35 billion euros
[00:02:38] annually. The electricity sector has a close relationship with the
[00:02:42] government, which regulates it. In the last few legislatures, at least
[00:02:46] 14% of the members of the boards of directors of Ibex
[00:02:50] 35 companies have previously
[00:02:52] Close to 55% of been public officials. Of these, 71% have gone to energy
[00:02:56] companies.
[00:03:00] The total limitation between the public and the private sector in the energy sector simply
[00:03:03] doesn't exist by definition, it's logical that companies have
[00:03:06] professionals who come from the public sector, because it affects
[00:03:11] had not yet been them directly. Obviously, a public professional
[00:03:13] doesn't know very well how a nuclear power plant works, but they do know how
[00:03:17] public decisions are made, they have that overall vision of the
[00:03:20] economy. These are the
[00:03:23] authentic illegal revolving
[00:03:26] doors, those that provide
[00:03:30] electricity companies with enough knowledge to know how to
[00:03:34] navigate the
[00:03:37] labyrinth of regulation. If what happens is that when that gentleman is on the
[00:03:41] board of directors he still has friends in political parties who allow him
[00:03:44] to write future electricity regulations, that is very serious. One,
[00:03:48] two, he could also be returning a
[00:03:51] favor that he did to that gentleman when he was in office, that is also
[00:03:54] a crime. Therefore, I want at some
[00:03:59] smaller. We are going to point for some company to explain to me why, what an electricity company
[00:04:01] gains when it hires this type of director. It's an exaggeration, it's
[00:04:05] just a matter of having appointed, as some say, cronies
[00:04:08] instead of people with a lot of knowledge. That's where we have those gray
[00:04:12] areas where we have to get it right. It's not the same to hire
[00:04:15] professionals with extensive experience in public decisions that have had to do with
[00:04:19] energy as it is to hire others
[00:04:21] who haven't.
[00:04:24] Despite the economic crisis, electricity companies today maintain
[00:04:27] the same profit margins they had before the
[00:04:30] start of the crisis. Meanwhile, the electricity
[00:04:34] bill has risen by 70% in the last 10
[00:04:38] years. The Spanish electricity system has a
[00:04:43] Ollers, a small village in Pla de production capacity that doubles the electricity
[00:04:44] consumed.
[00:04:48] This obvious imbalance between production and consumption, which would be an
[00:04:51] anomaly in any market, is one of the singularities of the
[00:04:55] current electricity
[00:04:56] market.
[00:05:02] This is very serious, because just as Spain has too many airports and some
[00:05:05] roads, there are too many power plants. That is, if we
[00:05:09] believe there is a market and there is liberalism and that...
[00:05:17] The price of electricity is decided every working day
[00:05:20] in an auction where all the electricity the country
[00:05:24] will need for
[00:05:25] the next day is bought.
[00:05:28] The first energies to be auctioned are the cheapest,
[00:05:31] renewables, and the last, the most expensive, which
[00:05:35] is usually the combined cycle
[00:05:37] gas.
[00:05:41] Paradoxically, all of them will pay the price of the most expensive, even though it is the least
[00:05:44] used. This means that hydraulic and nuclear energies have very
[00:05:48] high profits. Renewables, the cheapest to produce, have to face
[00:05:51] high loans to pay for the installations that are still very
[00:05:55] new.
[00:06:00] we have is simply false. There is talk of a
[00:06:03] market and that market does not exist, even if the laws say that
[00:06:06] it is liberalized, that is a lie.
[00:06:09] Therefore, the hydroelectric system
[00:06:12] and the nuclear system are receiving extraordinary
[00:06:16] profits that
[00:06:19] are completely supranormal and
[00:06:22] have no legal justification whatsoever,
[00:06:25] much less commercial, because there is no freedom of
[00:06:28] entry. It is even more serious that electricity companies earn the same now as
[00:06:32] 10 years ago when they produce much less energy because there are many more renewables.
[00:06:36] That is, if we do the energy transition at the cost of
[00:06:39] maintaining everything we already had and paying electricity companies the same...
[00:06:47] The price that is decided daily at auction is only for the electricity we
[00:06:51] consume, which is a small part of what we pay on the bill.
[00:06:54] We pay a fixed amount for the contracted
[00:06:57] power.
[00:07:01] we pay two different taxes. The average
[00:07:04] consumer in Spain has a contracted electrical power
[00:07:08] of 4.4 kW, of which only 40%
[00:07:11] is available on average. The paid but unused
[00:07:15] power is extra profit for the electricity
[00:07:18] company.
[00:07:21] But the bulk of what we pay has little to do with consumption.
[00:07:25] We pay tolls for the high voltage grid that transports
[00:07:28] electricity, for premiums to renewable
[00:07:32] energies, for subsidies to gas
[00:07:35] cogeneration, for aid to the
[00:07:38] coal industry and nuclear waste and
[00:07:42] for... the tariff deficit of the companies, which amounts to 26
[00:07:45] billion
[00:07:46] euros.
[00:07:54] We also pay a 5% tax on electricity
[00:07:57] consumption, and a 21% VAT on the total
[00:08:01] bill, which includes the previous 5% and which,
[00:08:04] therefore, is paid
[00:08:06] twice.
[00:08:12] its remuneration has been adjusted a lot, and there's also the part about political
[00:08:15] decisions. The vast majority of that are the premiums for
[00:08:19] renewables when it was a time of very mature technology, but
[00:08:22] these were still technologies that were not very efficient, and parks and parks
[00:08:26] and parks of these technologies were paid for at very high prices, with this theory that the
[00:08:29] government has that most of the costs of the electricity bill are fixed and
[00:08:33] that therefore they must be paid regardless of what is not consumed, that part of the
[00:08:37] bill is constantly growing. The bill is getting bigger and bigger.
[00:08:40] The bill is getting bigger and bigger.
[00:08:52] they already have decades of
[00:08:55] regulation made to measure
[00:08:57] and if you want to do something
[00:09:00] new that does not come out in favor
[00:09:04] of the current oligopoly there is always some
[00:09:07] rule of the game that
[00:09:09] prevents you.
[00:09:18] Little by little, the idea emerged that it would be worthwhile to
[00:09:21] start an electricity production cooperative
[00:09:24] with other
[00:09:27] people.
[00:09:29] I believe the most important thing we have done so far is to show that there is another
[00:09:33] possible model
[00:09:36] and we have shown that a cooperative can
[00:09:40] offer the same service or even more
[00:09:44] than others. Dutch economist Heisberg Jaging is the founder of Som Energia,
[00:09:48] the first green energy cooperative in the state, based in
[00:09:52] Girona. Heisberg lives in
[00:09:55] l'Estany, in a house that is almost 100% sustainable.
[00:09:59] When they were installed 9 years ago, these panels produced
[00:10:03] 130% of our annual needs
[00:10:06] and right now, for a year,
[00:10:09] a year and a half, we have an electric car that...
[00:10:25] I see a 100% renewable
[00:10:28] future in Spain and in Catalonia as perfectly
[00:10:31] possible.
[00:10:36] Among all technologies, especially photovoltaic is
[00:10:40] revolutionary, because it's not only about producing clean
[00:10:44] energy, and in a very easy
[00:10:47] way, but you can do it anywhere in the world,
[00:10:51] with
[00:10:54] the biggest effect right now, you can see it in
[00:10:57] Africa and countries like India where people
[00:11:00] used to not have electricity,
[00:11:03] and now with a solar panel installed in a day,
[00:11:06] they have a small battery and they have electricity
[00:11:10] supply. They no longer need all the infrastructure we
[00:11:13] have. That's what changes the
[00:11:17] world.
[00:11:23] Som Energia was founded in 2010.
[00:11:25] It has over 35,000 members and already exceeds
[00:11:28] 52,000 electricity contracts.
[00:11:31] We have updated offers from
[00:11:35] other panel producers. They have just launched a solar park in
[00:11:38] Seville and are already working on the second. Their main novelty
[00:11:42] is called Generation kWh, a project that
[00:11:45] allows members to produce green energy collectively, without
[00:11:49] being subject to the uncertainties of the electricity
[00:11:51] market, recovering the initial investment in 25
[00:11:56] years. Our main goal
[00:11:59] electricity that all members use,
[00:12:02] and to continue promoting new
[00:12:05] plants, we have to invent a new
[00:12:08] system of financing or a new
[00:12:12] collective self-supply system, which is
[00:12:16] precisely Generation kWh. It's not a
[00:12:20] generation of people who
[00:12:22] self-produce what they use.
[00:12:36] Som Energia shows this alternative model to the electricity oligopoly
[00:12:40] to all interested people. This is taken care of
[00:12:43] by the 25 local groups it has throughout the peninsular
[00:12:46] territory. Today, one of these groups visits the
[00:12:49] Alcolea del Rio plant, 50 km from Seville, in
[00:12:53] which the members have invested.
[00:13:12] I live in an apartment in the city center and it's not
[00:13:16] possible for me to have solar panels for
[00:13:18] self-production. This way of collective
[00:13:22] self-production is a formula to
[00:13:25] solve this, right? Collectively, we are able to produce the
[00:13:29] energy that we can consume in our homes.
[00:13:31] in our homes.
[00:13:36] I suppose our growth has a lot to do with
[00:13:40] not so much because we're good, but perhaps because others
[00:13:44] do it so badly or so
[00:13:47] brazenly, as the government is
[00:13:50] doing in the country in Europe with the most solar radiation.
[00:13:54] Almost, it's a worldwide example,
[00:13:57] the biggest example in Spain of how to put obstacles in the way
[00:14:01] of
[00:14:01] renewables.
[00:14:06] We are here in Lora del Rio, which is actually a town
[00:14:10] that is 3-4 km from Alcolea del Rio, which is where the
[00:14:14] other plant we have is located, which has been operating for a year.
[00:14:17] The idea here is to do a similar project to that one,
[00:14:21] a little bit divide.
[00:14:26] generation cost prices are starting to emerge which for us,
[00:14:29] who have no financial costs because we
[00:14:33] are financed 100% by the contributions of the members, is already coming out at a
[00:14:36] lower price than the market price.
[00:14:40] All
[00:14:54] sectors involved in facing climate change express the same
[00:14:58] desire: we must be able to produce 100% renewable
[00:15:01] energy in the next three or four
[00:15:05] decades. But will it be
[00:15:07] possible? Germany has set out to do so with the
[00:15:11] governmental program Energiewende, energy
[00:15:14] transition, which aims to reach 80% renewable
[00:15:18] energy by 2050.
[00:15:19] The small town of Friam,
[00:15:26] a municipality in the state of Baden-Württemberg, with just over
[00:15:29] 4,000 inhabitants, is a small-scale
[00:15:32] example.
[00:15:33] In Freiamt, last
[00:15:39] year we produced 22 million
[00:15:41] kilowatts, while the energy
[00:15:45] we consumed was only half.
[00:15:49] The rest we fed into the electricity grid and
[00:15:53] we obtained an income for the community.
[00:15:56] Our
[00:16:00] energy production consists of 80%
[00:16:04] wind, 15% photovoltaic,
[00:16:08] and the remaining 4%
[00:16:11] is biomass.
[00:16:17] On this farm, several generations of the Rainball family
[00:16:21] have lived from agriculture and livestock since the 16th
[00:16:24] century. In 2002, they converted
[00:16:27] it into a biogas
[00:16:28] power plant.
[00:16:46] Before, our final product was meat and now it is energy and heat.
[00:17:00] Every year we sell more than a million
[00:17:02] kilowatts.
[00:17:08] This is enough energy to supply approximately
[00:17:11] 400 or 500 homes, and with our
[00:17:14] photovoltaic installations we can
[00:17:17] supply about 80 more
[00:17:19] homes.
[00:17:27] The town of Freiamt is proud
[00:17:30] to receive visitors from all over the world
[00:17:33] and to be asked how it can be built.
[00:17:42] Visitors come from almost all over the world, from
[00:17:45] Asia, Japan and South Korea, to
[00:17:49] India, South Africa and even Mexico and
[00:17:52] America, Canada and Europe.
[00:17:55] I can't say when was the last time we had a visitor from
[00:17:59] Spain.
[00:18:05] Will all of Germany be able to run only on renewable energies like
[00:18:08] Freiamt in the near
[00:18:10] future?
[00:18:13] Renewable energies produce electricity irregularly,
[00:18:16] meaning that when there is no sun or wind, there is no
[00:18:20] electricity. The main challenge of the energy
[00:18:23] transition is to find the most suitable system to
[00:18:27] combine all renewable energies so that they complement each
[00:18:30] other and to store them and be able to use them at all
[00:18:34] times, even when there is no production.
[00:18:38] Meanwhile, Germany is experiencing the great contradiction of combining the closure of nuclear
[00:18:41] power plants that do not emit CO2 with a sharp
[00:18:44] increase in coal consumption, the most polluting fossil
[00:18:48] fuel.
[00:18:50] In the next five years, all nuclear power plants will have to be
[00:18:54] shut down.
[00:18:58] We will have renewable energies, basically solar and
[00:19:01] wind. And finally, in the next 20 years,
[00:19:04] we will close the coal power plants.
[00:19:08] The German energy transition, for me, what it has best, what it emphasizes
[00:19:12] most, is the rapid abandonment of nuclear
[00:19:15] energy. Merkel closed the nuclear power plants
[00:19:19] because she had to win with the
[00:19:21] green votes, but to compensate for this
[00:19:25] she has had to import all the coal
[00:19:29] at this moment, even if only temporarily, Germany,
[00:19:33] to support the penetration of its
[00:19:35] renewable industry, has become one of the main emitters of
[00:19:39] carbon dioxide in
[00:19:41] Europe.
[00:19:44] This is the paradox of the German energy transition, because on
[00:19:48] the one hand we will have increased the proportion of renewable
[00:19:50] energy, but on the other hand we still have a large amount of
[00:19:54] coal. This is due to the pressures of the nuclear and coal
[00:19:57] plants that want more time to adapt, and that is why
[00:20:01] the involvement of renewables will be more complicated from
[00:20:05] now on.
[00:20:13] The success of the energy transition depends on reducing our
[00:20:16] energy consumption and on producing our own
[00:20:19] electricity.
[00:20:23] The Boban neighborhood in the city of Freiburg, near the Black Forest,
[00:20:26] is a good example. Here
[00:20:29] is the Solar Siedlung, Germany's most famous solar
[00:20:32] development, 59 prefabricated houses built
[00:20:36] completely of wood. The idea is
[00:20:39] that we all become prosumers, proactive
[00:20:42] consumers, meaning that we are both producers and
[00:20:46] consumers, and solar energy is the cheapest and also the one we have most at hand.
[00:20:50] Rolf Dish is the architect who designed the Bobant neighborhood and from
[00:20:54] here he works on sustainable projects throughout
[00:20:57] Germany.
[00:21:00] The unique characteristic of this community is also that these are energy
[00:21:05] that throughout the year they generate more energy than they
[00:21:08] consume. The energy produced that is not
[00:21:11] consumed is fed into the public electricity grid. The sun sends
[00:21:15] us no
[00:21:16] bill.
[00:21:32] My wife and I spend approximately 2,400 kW
[00:21:35] per year and we generate between 6,500 and
[00:21:39] 7,500.
[00:21:44] It's a very positive balance.
[00:21:47] This house charges us in return.
[00:21:52] It's surprising,
[00:21:53] isn't it?
[00:21:57] Solar construction is constantly increasing. When we did it,
[00:22:00] we were practically alone, today many people also do
[00:22:04] it.
[00:22:07] According to the European Union directive, in three years
[00:22:10] it will no longer be possible to build in any other way. Houses will have to
[00:22:13] produce the energy they
[00:22:14] consume.
[00:22:24] And in 2020 all new general type buildings will
[00:22:27] have to be nearly zero-energy buildings. These
[00:22:31] nearly zero-energy buildings will be very well-insulated buildings that
[00:22:35] will have to generate energy
[00:22:39] with renewable and local sources.
[00:22:42] Therefore, you will have to design in a completely different way than has been done so far, the
[00:22:46] architects concerned. Every week they hold some of their
[00:23:00] classes at the solar dau in the Sant Mus neighborhood in Rubí, a
[00:23:03] civic space shared by neighbors, university students, and students, a
[00:23:07] 100% self-sufficient space completely
[00:23:10] disconnected from the electricity grid.
[00:23:13] A poorly insulated building.
[00:23:18] With heating and hot water that is
[00:23:20] produced electrically, it is a ticking time bomb in the hands of people with low
[00:23:24] incomes. Renewable energies are absolutely
[00:23:28] essential to combat energy poverty,
[00:23:31] why? Because renewable energies take us out, take us
[00:23:34] out of the direct market and therefore, from the wild
[00:23:38] oscillations that the market has, specifically
[00:23:41] electricity.
[00:23:46] Coke and Dani have designed and directed the renovation of an
[00:23:50] office with 21 social housing units built in
[00:23:53] 2005. At that time, energy
[00:23:57] efficiency criteria from the technical building code
[00:24:01] incorporated. The rehabilitation, which was coordinated by
[00:24:05] the Catalan Housing Agency, was completed in 2015.
[00:24:08] With the insulation of the
[00:24:11] building and the installation of photovoltaic panels, the living
[00:24:14] conditions of the residents changed
[00:24:16] radically.
[00:24:21] Before the building, people left because they paid more for electricity
[00:24:24] costs than for rent
[00:24:28] costs, and therefore the homes
[00:24:30] became uninhabitable. When we
[00:24:33] entered the apartments, we found, systematically, apartments
[00:24:37] that were at 12 degrees throughout the day, and even apartments
[00:24:41] that in winter there were days when they dropped below
[00:24:45] 10 degrees and were at a lower temperature inside than
[00:24:48] outside.
[00:25:20] 16 degrees continuously, the risk
[00:25:23] is high. As we go down degree by degree, it becomes
[00:25:27] higher. This entails extremely high health costs and
[00:25:31] the shortening of life.
[00:25:33] The building, facing north and poorly insulated, needed a lot
[00:25:37] of electricity to heat the apartments. Residents,
[00:25:40] unable to pay exorbitant bills, opted for
[00:25:44] cheaper but less efficient alternative
[00:25:47] heating systems, and the indoor temperature often dropped
[00:25:51] to 12 degrees. The intervention consisted of cladding the entire
[00:25:54] building with an insulating layer, transforming the
[00:25:58] terraces into galleries, installing double windows, and also
[00:26:01] photovoltaic panels. The results were
[00:26:05] spectacular. The comfort temperature in the apartments
[00:26:08] rose to 21 degrees and the electricity bill
[00:26:12] dropped to a quarter. The fact that
[00:26:15] the building is owned by a single owner, the Catalan Housing Agency,
[00:26:18] has made it possible to unify all meters into a single one and lower the
[00:26:22] contracted power. This has
[00:26:26] the electricity bill. Spanish law does not make it easy for
[00:26:30] several neighbors to share electricity consumption infrastructure
[00:26:33] in the same building, such as a single meter or photovoltaic
[00:26:36] panels.
[00:26:44] Here we enter the meter room, which is not a conventional meter room; there is a
[00:26:47] single meter.
[00:26:50] This measure saves us a lot of money, because if
[00:26:53] we contracted electricity independently as is usual, in
[00:26:57] this case we had 107 kW of contracted power. The
[00:27:00] single meter allows us
[00:27:03] to contract only 45
[00:27:06] the bill, which is the most impactful, the most damaging, is drastically
[00:27:10] reduced. This allows for very significant savings, helped, of course, by
[00:27:13] the introduction of photovoltaic energy, which has a zero
[00:27:15] cost.
[00:27:22] If the reforms had not been made, those families we photographed
[00:27:26] 5 years ago, with today's bill structure, would be paying
[00:27:29] €1,200 a year for their electricity
[00:27:33] bill because of the heating and other things. By having made
[00:27:37] these reforms, this annual bill is €350
[00:27:41] a year, so the savings are a factor of 4,
[00:27:44] divided by four. We think that we have a very
[00:27:50] on the order of 22 million homes that are inefficient. Therefore,
[00:27:53] in the future, the entire process of improving these
[00:27:57] buildings will be what gives
[00:28:00] construction.
[00:28:02] Will we be able to light and heat our homes, maintain our industry,
[00:28:06] or drive our vehicles only with renewable
[00:28:10] energy? Experts have opposing
[00:28:13] opinions on this issue, but they agree
[00:28:16] on the same idea. A 100%
[00:28:19] sustainable future requires more responsible energy
[00:28:23] consumption.
[00:28:27] There are those who believe that all the energy we currently
[00:28:31] consume can be offset by renewable energy. There are other people who are more pessimistic,
[00:28:34] and I include myself among them, who think that only a fraction
[00:28:38] of the total can be compensated, if we do it well, the challenge for
[00:28:42] Catalonia is very ambitious, but we have to
[00:28:45] get to it, that it is ambitious and probably
[00:28:49] difficult, does not mean that it is not possible.
[00:28:51] possible.
[00:28:55] the electricity we consume in Catalonia is of
[00:28:58] nuclear origin, and a quarter of the total
[00:29:00] we obtain it. fossil fuels, while clean
[00:29:04] energies are 21%, and
[00:29:07] solar energy is only
[00:29:09] 2%. This great dependence on nuclear
[00:29:13] energy, which makes Catalonia a very decarbonized country,
[00:29:17] because it does not emit CO2, greatly conditions the energy
[00:29:20] transition. According to the National Energy Transition
[00:29:23] Plan of the Generalitat, by 2050,
[00:29:26] 100% of electricity will have to be of renewable origin,
[00:29:30] and we will have to produce a part of it ourselves. at home. This is precisely
[00:29:33] what energy transition is, because there is increasingly
[00:29:37] more technology on the market, at competitive prices that allow you to do it, that
[00:29:41] allow the citizen not to have to consume energy that
[00:29:45] was produced in Saudi Arabia, for example, that large companies
[00:29:48] have transported it here, that once it has arrived here, they have transformed it into large
[00:29:52] transformation plants and then with transport and distribution lines they have brought it
[00:29:56] home.
[00:30:00] All this now suddenly, there is technology that... that you do it
[00:30:08] renewable energies is still very complicated due to all the bureaucratic
[00:30:12] obstacles they find in the administrations, everything
[00:30:15] that breathes the new
[00:30:18] energy model, braking, stopping,
[00:30:21] inverted taxation, you say
[00:30:24] well, this is not the country we want, in Spain they have managed to prove,
[00:30:27] I already lost count when they had 13 or 14 of the last
[00:30:31] five.