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20261029 083000 UTC
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[00:00:00] not to cancel a strike that it had called days ago, long before
[00:00:03] it was known that
[00:00:05] been in accordance or has not this accident happened on October 16th, because it considers that
[00:00:09] the reasons for continuing with this strike are more alive than ever, and it is
[00:00:12] that according to this union, many points have not been completed, many of them related to
[00:00:16] railway safety, these were reached
[00:00:19] at Madif and with the Ministry of Transport
[00:00:22] after the accident of Demut that happened
[00:00:25] six months ago. Thank you, Manu Alonso, from
[00:00:29] Totxa, let's do something, let's collect from the explanations of
[00:00:32] Minister Puente and other data we know, this accident that happened just
[00:00:36] over 24 hours ago, Oscar, yes, Ariana, this is what
[00:00:40] we know right now about how the events unfolded, let's start at
[00:00:43] 7:54, which is when the first train leaves
[00:00:47] Madrid for Totxa, it is Lirio with number
[00:00:51] 60-76 that goes to Andalusia with
[00:00:54] if it is not used, and then 147 passengers on board. Minutes later at
[00:00:57] 8 o'clock, the Renfa AVE leaves, it is train 2080 with destination to
[00:01:01] Seville with about 400
[00:01:03] but it's all a maintenance problem, passengers, between 8:30 and 8:32,
[00:01:06] the next step the LZB security system falls. There is a
[00:01:09] computer variation of communication between equipment of this
[00:01:13] system, according to Oscar Puente, the affected section is
[00:01:15] about 63 km, here we have, there are six trains that
[00:01:19] are automatically stopped, hmm,
[00:01:22] it is this system. the LZB with a system
[00:01:26] failure that interrupts the normal circulation of trains and that forces, as we said, the control center of ADIF in Totxa in Madrid to
[00:01:30] assume the management of this incident manually,
[00:01:34] human. Yes, and what happens from here, from this point, then
[00:01:38] we go between 8:30 and
[00:01:41] 8:36, this is
[00:01:43] suffer a punishment, people must
[00:01:43] there are works, which is one of the big the next step, the trains
[00:01:46] ehm, let's say, I stop and the control center intervenes, the operators contact
[00:01:49] the affected trains and tell them how to act with the system. main
[00:01:52] theme out of service, according to the minister, there was a red
[00:01:56] signal that prevented resuming the march normally. At
[00:02:00] 8:36, here we have it, the AVE is authorized to
[00:02:03] resume the march. This is the key moment of this
[00:02:07] reconstruction. The minister states that from the control center the Remfa
[00:02:10] train is authorized to resume circulation normally,
[00:02:13] even though it was not appropriate to do so, according to Puente, the
[00:02:17] train should have circulated with the "march at sight" procedure, that is, with a...
[00:02:21] maximum speed of 40 km/h the possibility
[00:02:24] of stopping before any
[00:02:26] of this infrastructure obstacle, this is what Puente calls
[00:02:30] is clear that a... an area, a metropolitan "unexplainable". Next moment, let's go to
[00:02:35] that I've made you, that I've made you wait 8:42, 8:43 which is when the AVE effectively
[00:02:37] resumes movement, the train starts to
[00:02:40] accelerate progressively and covers about 25 km.
[00:02:43] Puente considers that the control center should have had time to detect the error. Here
[00:02:47] we arrive at the culminating point, which is the last one, it is
[00:02:50] 8:53 in the morning yesterday, there is the collision at that
[00:02:54] moment at the height of Urda, this is the province of Toledo,
[00:02:58] the Renfe AVE impacts from behind, here we have seen it
[00:03:02] against the Lirio that remains stopped on the track,
[00:03:05] several cars, as we see, derail, some
[00:03:09] Lirio wagons fall down the embankment and the AVE locomotive
[00:03:13] also leaves the track, these are the facts
[00:03:16] waiting for the investigation to clarify
[00:03:19] and shed more light on this and also clarify the responsibilities of
[00:03:23] everything, thank you Oscar, digas, ton and
[00:03:26] have all the necessary Laura and yes, look, above all, now when pointing to the minister's statements about there being
[00:03:30] inexplicable things, people themselves must understand that
[00:03:33] it is not that they do not understand it either, that is, that in these cases there are inexplicable
[00:03:37] things, it really bothers a lot, before you interviewed Mr.
[00:03:40] Cárdenas, he said a phrase that seemed very
[00:03:45] so that this section of important to me, that a human error means that the technical system
[00:03:47] has failed, it seems key to me. that is, because if
[00:03:50] we resort to human error we can agree, but what
[00:03:53] we must demand is that the AVE does not depend on a human error, that is
[00:03:57] to say that there is the technique, they have told us that it is the AVE, it is the type of
[00:04:00] train with the most investment that exists, they tell us that not in maintenance but
[00:04:04] yes in infrastructure and therefore I believe that this is important, he also
[00:04:08] got angry because there had been the leak, it seemed to me
[00:04:12] when you interviewed him that he was angry about the leak
[00:04:14] Puente a week ago was on late-night of the audios because I believe that it does not leave the control in a good place
[00:04:17] in this case or does not leave in a good place the... what happened, what he described as the command post, therefore, it is normal for the
[00:04:21] citizens to look at all this bewildered and worried and for there to be
[00:04:24] a great wear and tear on what is an infrastructure like the train and a means of
[00:04:28] transport like the AVE that today people may not feel
[00:04:32] naturally as he assures yes, I am in the same line, of course, from
[00:04:35] the beginning, from the first moment, Minister Puentes comes out to indicate not
[00:04:39] this human error and I believe that he does it for several reasons: the first
[00:04:42] surely is because he controls information that had not yet reached the citizens and the second
[00:04:46] surely because everyone... the retina at that moment Demuz, that is,
[00:04:49] the accident of the month of January, only nine months ago,
[00:04:53] which has not yet been resolved but that all ehm well it
[00:04:57] generated among the citizens also among many experts. a strong questioning
[00:05:00] about the investments in the maintenance of the high-speed lines, especially after
[00:05:04] the liberalization that took place in
[00:05:08] know, you pointed out 2021 which implies that on a single infrastructure
[00:05:10] more trains circulate and what all the data seems to indicate is that
[00:05:13] the investment in maintenance has not
[00:05:17] been compensated with the greater use that these lines produce, right? I think that
[00:05:21] at one point, Mr. Amorós, good morning, president of Fermet, is this statement
[00:05:24] you share? Yes, yes, yes, I share it in the sense that
[00:05:28] ehm... normally, normally, ehm, I mean,
[00:05:31] it depends on the countries, but all the investments that are made every
[00:05:35] year, ehm, normally, about 30%
[00:05:39] is maintenance, ehm, in Germany, I think it's 31%, in France
[00:05:42] it's 28%, here it's 15%, mm,
[00:05:45] clear, this is the problem, I think there is a whole
[00:05:49] mistaken approach to the Spanish railway
[00:05:52] network, it is very clear that what should be done is not being done.
[00:05:56] traffic, a high-speed network has been built, let's say, that does not have the
[00:06:00] traffic that there is between Paris and Lyon, for example, no, you say: listen, why do
[00:06:03] you have such a large network here
[00:06:07] moreover, this is an enormous investment and considerable
[00:06:10] maintenance, how many millions are
[00:06:14] we talking about for maintenance per kilometer of high-speed tracks, do you have that data?
[00:06:17] I don't have that precise data, I don't know, honestly now I wouldn't want to
[00:06:21] be mistaken, but I... maintenance cost of maintenance per
[00:06:25] kilometer of high-speed line, well, the
[00:06:28] exact figure I don't know, I know it is one of the lowest, I know that annually
[00:06:31] in maintenance these AVE lines
[00:06:35] invest around 400 million euros, but that is in recent
[00:06:38] years, before it was less and that there is a report from the European
[00:06:45] Commission that indeed
[00:06:48] denounces that on average the investment is below the minimum and that it
[00:06:52] is situated in maintenance at around 15%, right?
[00:06:54] The thing is that
[00:06:58] think there are two different optics, right? One thing is to know
[00:07:02] exactly the specific causes of this accident, which forces us
[00:07:05] to apply a kind of specific magnifying glass and another
[00:07:08] is the whole that indeed ehm, well,
[00:07:11] Spain has been updated, Spain has
[00:07:15] invested a thousand million updated, in the
[00:07:19] AVE investment, right, which...
[00:07:22] one moment, Laura, Laura, finish the argument briefly and then I'll come to the frame, very quickly, that
[00:07:26] I believe that this is precisely the reason why Puente comes out talking about human error,
[00:07:29] trying to dissociate what happened with Demut, that surely we have to make
[00:07:32] another approach in line with what you were also suggesting now,
[00:07:35] in relation to maintenance when there has been a greater use
[00:07:39] and this human error that would have occurred yesterday according to the
[00:07:43] audios would accredit that there was indeed a human error, but what happens is that
[00:07:47] these audios only solve a part of the unknowns of... what happened does not
[00:07:50] solve everything for us, that is, obviously, ehm, we don't know
[00:07:54] why ehm, neither the driver nor the
[00:07:58] operator would have respected the protocols, this is one of the questions
[00:08:01] we can ask ourselves, why did the supervision mechanisms fail, if they exist, because I also have doubts about how
[00:08:05] this works, why did they fail? That is, can a single person make all the decisions and there is no
[00:08:09] one, no structure that supervises that this is really the case, that is, the
[00:08:13] audios would point to this thesis of human error, but even so, there are many
[00:08:16] unknowns around why. this human error occurred, in addition to the technical failures that
[00:08:19] we should resolve, I suppose this requires time, now
[00:08:23] we need immediate answers, we will not have them surely, I think that
[00:08:27] well for me it is really very difficult today to make an analysis on this
[00:08:31] topic, first because I don't know
[00:08:33] enough, second because because we don't
[00:08:38] information to make a good analysis, no, I just wanted to point out three or
[00:08:42] four things, no, eh and that perhaps you will help me
[00:08:46] to resolve them, no, the first is:
[00:08:50] I think annually there are 44 million
[00:08:54] trips, let's say in Spain
[00:08:57] by AVE, let's say, they are many, two, it is the country that
[00:09:00] has most quickly liberalized the entry of other operators
[00:09:03] in Spain, there were six trains in a section that I don't know exactly
[00:09:07] how long it is, 60 km, 60
[00:09:11] km, there were six trains, this goes as if it were, I am a regular
[00:09:14] consumer, let's say, of the AVE in Madrid and this goes like a...
[00:09:17] it goes practically like a subway in the end, to understand each other, let's say, and
[00:09:21] then eight minutes, a railway source told me, it should pass every seven
[00:09:25] or eight minutes, the AVE, ok, but it's just that there are many, that is, seven
[00:09:28] or eight minutes to understand us, railways in the Generalitat,
[00:09:32] five minutes, railways, for example, in
[00:09:35] France, there is a density still, still
[00:09:39] railways in the Generalitat, now he was telling me it's 2 minutes,
[00:09:42] 7-8, between two minutes and 7-8 for a journey of...
[00:09:46] many kilometers and at this speed, well, maybe we do have to do a
[00:09:50] bit of rethinking, not so much with the investment, which surely
[00:09:54] also, but with the fact of considering, let's say,
[00:09:57] if we are prepared for so many trains, let's say, at the same time
[00:10:01] and then, well, but I, excuse me, you who are an engineer, you who are president
[00:10:05] of Fermet, I understand that yes, the network is prepared for the
[00:10:08] trains that pass. The
[00:10:13] issue of the number of trains depends, let's say, on the speeds, if the
[00:10:17] speeds are homogeneous you can have trains one behind
[00:10:20] the other, now when you mix trains, as for example happens with the line
[00:10:23] that goes from Barcelona to the border, that freight trains go at 100 and passenger
[00:10:27] trains go at 200 or 3 then you automatically brake the
[00:10:30] capacity of the line, but I definitely think that here there
[00:10:34] has been a mistake, ehm, a system
[00:10:37] failure, no matter what they say, eh?
[00:10:40] That is, obviously, ehm,
[00:10:44] if they tell a gentleman to go ahead, it is because they consider that the system works
[00:10:47] and the system does not work, because these systems are
[00:10:51] sufficiently safe so that the train stops, that is,
[00:10:55] if there is an obstacle in front, the train stops, the other train does not
[00:10:59] start either, I mean, ehm, here it is... you can say whatever you want,
[00:11:02] but the system fails and what cannot
[00:11:05] be is that a system like this does not have enough backup,
[00:11:08] I fly continuously, but I am relatively calm because I know
[00:11:12] that everything is tripled, eh, if one thing fails, the other
[00:11:15] one finishes it, here with a system like this, well, it has
[00:11:19] to be whatever it is,
[00:11:22] of course there are plane crashes, with more deaths than this, if
[00:11:26] we compare, if we compare we also have to see a little, but in proportion to the
[00:11:29] number of trips, there are many fewer plane crashes, I think that a
[00:11:32] little, let's say, with what little is known, insisting that one must be very
[00:11:35] careful, I believe that Oscar Puente is hasty because he has an
[00:11:38] interest in saving his own skin, that is, not being
[00:11:42] responsible, then making an easy metaphor, it's as if
[00:11:44] one has a deposit in which water is being spilled
[00:11:48] in large quantities and in the end you end up saying that the last
[00:11:51] drop is the one that... caused the spilling that causes the
[00:11:55] problem, no, here there is a problem ehm of a
[00:11:59] systemic failure of that line at that moment, there are several
[00:12:02] security systems that do not work, partly because
[00:12:05] they are being replaced and therefore
[00:12:08] problems, I don't know what you think, but
[00:12:12] ehm, the entire Spanish railway network, we have the problem that
[00:12:16] works are being done while everything apparently functions normally, which is a
[00:12:20] guarantee that sooner or later strange things will happen to you, right? Well,
[00:12:23] the thing is that it is clear, there are ehm,
[00:12:27] I think horrible maintenance vacancies,
[00:12:30] and especially on conventional lines because they have
[00:12:34] dedicated a lot to high-speed issues
[00:12:37] and, well, you just have to look at the Barcelona
[00:12:40] commuter trains, today it is something that is an absolute shame, no, no, no,
[00:12:44] it is not acceptable that this happens, eh, and we will talk about how long it will take
[00:12:47] to fix it, eh, because it is clear, there is such a huge deficit that they don't
[00:12:51] say it, eh, they don't say it, but it
[00:12:55] region that 100 years ago had 1.5 million and now has six
[00:12:58] million, nothing has been done in 100 years, in 100 years
[00:13:02] eh, only one connection has been made with the T2, only one bypass has been made
[00:13:05] behind the TIBA so that nuclear waste would not pass, this is what they have done,
[00:13:08] gentlemen, and then it turns out you say that they still cut the
[00:13:11] Caldes de Montbui line and then you say: listen, and now
[00:13:15] what should we do? We have made a calculation of at least to put this,
[00:13:19] let's say, so that people have 50%.
[00:13:22] with people being able to go by train on the commuter lines, we
[00:13:25] need at least 30,000 million to fix this, eh, yes,
[00:13:29] yes, it is logical that on a day like today everything is questioned, also
[00:13:33] high speed, the thing is that these two accidents, not the one in Hilda de
[00:13:36] Muz, are on a line that is not underutilized, that
[00:13:40] is not a line, let's say, criticizable, that was a necessary
[00:13:44] line that has been working for almost 40 years that was the first
[00:13:48] line that was made, the one that was made for the...
[00:13:51] in a way from a very centralist, megalomaniac
[00:13:55] political logic on the part of Aznar's governments, no, that
[00:13:59] obsession, I remember because at that time I worked in Madrid to
[00:14:02] unite Madrid with all the provincial capitals
[00:14:06] and not with a logic of efficiency because it is
[00:14:09] evident that this line we are talking about, Madrid-Seville, was
[00:14:13] necessary. that the line was absolutely necessary and is being
[00:14:17] absolutely profitable, but so was
[00:14:21] the Valencia-Barcelona line here, in this
[00:14:33] case, due to a simple question of
[00:14:36] sectarianism, not against this idea of the Catalan Countries
[00:14:40] that neither the Spanish right nor some left
[00:14:44] and centralism like, well, this has not been done,
[00:14:47] no, there has been very little self-criticism, very little
[00:14:50] self-criticism. from the political forces, especially
[00:14:54] state ones, about how it has been done and how it has been conceived and how
[00:14:58] it has been embraced again in the case of
[00:15:00] high speed this radial structure that has also
[00:15:04] caused, as you said, that, for example, due to an investment
[00:15:08] issue and because, let's say, no
[00:15:11] government has in a basement the
[00:15:14] machinery for commuter trains and the Mediterranean
[00:15:18] corridor, no, but Mr. Amorós, a question then, from all this, what we are
[00:15:22] hearing today, today, little with all this but that we have no idea and the
[00:15:25] technicians have told him that not to Mariana, therefore there is an important plan but the idea
[00:15:29] is questions from those who
[00:15:33] what he said, the lamentable state
[00:15:36] of maintenance of many infrastructures, Mr. Puente when
[00:15:40] what happened in Demut happened, eh, he
[00:15:43] said that this was statistically very improbable because 30
[00:15:45] years had passed and nothing like this had happened, but now 9 months later
[00:15:49] this has happened, ehm, tell us something to
[00:15:53] reassure us or quite the opposite regarding whether this is repeatable,
[00:15:56] eh, because if the system is in a lamentable
[00:16:00] maintenance state, there are works that are being done but that at the same
[00:16:04] time can generate problems, etcetera? Ehm, what
[00:16:07] happened yesterday or what happened in Demut can happen again,
[00:16:10] explicable as but despite the statistics,
[00:16:14] it is, well, eh, obviously, you can never
[00:16:18] say no, but I think it's difficult for something like this to happen
[00:16:22] again if the systems are made to work properly, eh,
[00:16:26] because you already have high-speed trains all over Europe working everywhere
[00:16:29] and these very serious accidents haven't happened for many
[00:16:33] years, that is, but
[00:16:36] ehm? We've had two something different has happened,
[00:16:40] look, the Demus issue was a
[00:16:44] track that had been badly made, eh, but
[00:16:47] not yesterday, not yesterday, but yesterday is a problem of the Demus
[00:16:51] investigation still open, 10 months
[00:16:55] later, nine months later, the investigation is still
[00:16:58] open. Ehm, Mr. Amorós, thank you very much, by the way,
[00:17:02] some data, some data that the morning team has prepared for me,
[00:17:05] eh, yes, certainly in recent months the investment has increased.
[00:17:08] ADIF has made in maintenance, especially after this Demus accident in
[00:17:12] Córdoba, let's remember, at the end of January, 46 people
[00:17:16] died then in this collision with two
[00:17:19] trains that were circulating on different
[00:17:23] tracks. If we compare it with the
[00:17:25] investments made in other countries, we see that the expenditure on high-speed in the period
[00:17:28] 2018-2022 from the last available report in
[00:17:31] Spain for every 100 euros invested in high speed 16 are for
[00:17:35] maintenance, renovation, improvement of the network, the rest 86 euros
[00:17:39] for constructing more infrastructure and in the case of
[00:17:43] other European high-speed, which we pointed out in France,
[00:17:46] ehm, the maintenance expenditure
[00:17:50] reaches 34%, a proportion that is even
[00:17:53] greater in cases of Italy and Germany, these are data to reflect on, thank you,
[00:17:57] Mr. Murós, you,
[00:18:01] ehm, I greet you here, yes, let's go to the
[00:18:04] four weeks, four slices that remain for the elections of 29N,
[00:18:07] ehm, Toni Rodón, good morning. Good morning, good, how are you? I know, Toni,
[00:18:12] with him, with the political scientist professor at Pompeu Fabra
[00:18:15] University, eh, let's talk about this impact that some pundits here
[00:18:18] were pointing out before, about the impact that this accident,
[00:18:21] this tragedy, 68 dead, eh, and it is a provisional
[00:18:25] balance, this accident in Toledo, this
[00:18:28] campaign and in the government of Pedro Sánchez, I will only say one thing,
[00:18:31] yesterday here I interviewed the minister vice-president of the Spanish government Carlos
[00:18:34] Cuerpo. Eh, we learned the news, yesterday he learned it live when
[00:18:39] I told him about this last minute, there were a few minutes until half past
[00:18:42] nine, he left with all his team
[00:18:46] very, very worried, without knowing yet what was the basis of this accident,
[00:18:49] we'll get to it right away, thanks Rodon, ehm, don't leave, eh, we'll address
[00:18:53] the issue right away. Every week more things happen than
[00:18:56] you think, premieres, concerts,
[00:18:59] exhibitions, books, we
[00:19:03] explain it. An island, and eight pairs
[00:19:07] of famous people. The wilder
[00:19:10] Mallorca will be pushed to the limit.
[00:19:14] Only one couple will survive until the
[00:19:18] end. Here fame is useless.
[00:19:21] I've had to win the
[00:19:25] Tramuntana expedition
[00:24:20] These are live images from Los Yébenes, it's
[00:24:23] the place where these two large cranes
[00:24:26] are still working to remove the
[00:24:29] scrap metal. They will surely have days, weeks of work
[00:24:35] the high-speed line between Madrid and Andalusia returns
[00:24:39] to its normality amidst these olive groves. Some of the
[00:24:42] people we were able to talk to, for example, Jordi Quintan, who was traveling on this
[00:24:46] train, told us minutes after the accident what he had seen.
[00:24:50] listen to what he was seeing, he told us "I'm in a field with cows, with
[00:24:53] olive trees," and there we already knew that there
[00:24:56] was a first number of dead people, ten,
[00:25:00] a number that needs to be updated because all the authorities
[00:25:04] point out it's only a provisional balance, 68
[00:25:07] dead people, more than a hundred injured. This provisional
[00:25:10] balance will increase, this evidently has a
[00:25:14] political pre-campaign transfer for the
[00:25:17] electoral pre-campaign for... the elections on November
[00:25:21] 29th. Professor Rodon, good morning, Toni,
[00:25:25] good morning, how are you? We were talking just a week ago about last week's
[00:25:29] jokes and we were analyzing what the point, the finished photo, was
[00:25:32] at that moment of a very tight electoral pre-campaign, many
[00:25:36] issues, what we could not foresee obviously is that it would also be
[00:25:39] crossed, and now I will ask you what you think will be the basis
[00:25:42] of this impact for this railway tragedy, which is not
[00:25:46] the first this year because it comes after the Demuz that already led
[00:25:50] to a political storm and very harsh accusations from the
[00:25:53] opposition, precisely against the minister, Minister Puente. When you heard
[00:25:57] this news, I understand you made a reading as a political scientist that
[00:26:00] you are. What did you think?
[00:26:04] Well, several things, obviously, one cannot escape the emotional impact that
[00:26:08] these crises, these issues have, but politically
[00:26:12] it is true that this changes the panorama a bit, the
[00:26:16] rhetoric and the political media discourse of
[00:26:19] these days, especially because train accidents or infrastructure
[00:26:23] and transport accidents are somewhat different from
[00:26:26] accidents that can be of another nature, not, for example, natural disasters
[00:26:29] or other or even terrorist attacks. Why? Because people
[00:26:33] don't interpret it as an uncontrollable event, that is,
[00:26:37] it attacks or speaks directly to the capacity that
[00:26:40] governments have to avoid it and therefore to manage it, to prevent it, as you
[00:26:44] were discussing at the table, right? And here
[00:26:47] different facts are mixed. The first is that in general terms, during a legislature, during four
[00:26:51] years, accidents usually happen, in fact, there are even
[00:26:54] those who say that when a politician's job is to manage crises,
[00:26:58] right? And that this will happen
[00:27:02] reasons. These crises, in general
[00:27:04] terms, people tend
[00:27:07] emocional, sinó l'hora de traslladar-ho en el vot, la qüestió és que eh,
[00:27:11] the different issue here is that, as
[00:27:15] per les per les eleccions, estem ja en precampanya i per tant això
[00:27:19] és difícil que la gent doncs oblidi l'hora
[00:27:22] some people responsible
[00:27:25] or not. Here is where the key lies, the proximity and this
[00:27:29] second factor, as we learned well from the studies
[00:27:33] that were done for
[00:27:37] research we have on natural disaster crises,
[00:27:40] here the key is that for the governing party to
[00:27:46] hold the government responsible for the event that occurred.
[00:27:49] This doesn't always happen, it's not an immediate issue, and in fact,
[00:27:53] notice that, as you were discussing at the table, a part of the governmental
[00:27:56] rhetoric is to try to attribute responsibility to a
[00:28:00] human error, something that is part of the governmental structure,
[00:28:03] but goes beyond management, right? Therefore,
[00:28:07] to the extent that voters see that the management
[00:28:10] has been bad, the governing party, in this case, the PSOE,
[00:28:14] will not have it easy, or could suffer a certain setback.
[00:28:18] In fact, yesterday, when it was 3 in the afternoon, Minister
[00:28:21] Puente appeared, and he is the first person from the Spanish
[00:28:25] government, beyond a reaction that Vice President Carlos Cuerpo had here
[00:28:28] directly in this interview for "Els Matins", who, since we had no information, logically, said
[00:28:32] nothing. Ehm, 6 hours
[00:28:35] after the events, Minister Puente is the first person from the Spanish government to speak.
[00:28:39] He is the minister in charge, he is the Minister of Transport, and the first
[00:28:42] question, the first question was, "Do you intend to
[00:28:45] resign?" This also means, I mean, this
[00:28:49] also shows where we are. All this on a day
[00:28:53] that ended, we saw it, with only
[00:28:56] statements from the opposition attacking the government of
[00:28:59] Sánchez, but also with protest concentrations that started
[00:29:03] yesterday after this accident and with
[00:29:06] some police charges, for example in Madrid, with
[00:29:09] far-right protests, Toni,
[00:29:13] Toni Toni, who I also have here today again. The problem, well, apart
[00:29:17] from the drama, obviously, and the government's management, is the context, and in the
[00:29:21] context, when you say the first question they ask Oscar Puente is
[00:29:24] devastating, but it is also understood in the context we are living in,
[00:29:28] right? He is a minister who, well, without this context, surely this question would not have
[00:29:31] been asked. It would not have been the first, but it is
[00:29:35] also true that perhaps with another minister, we don't know if they would have asked him that question, right?
[00:29:38] Oscar Puente is not just the Minister of Infrastructure, he is a standard-bearer
[00:29:42] of the PSOE, he is, he is also one of the most important
[00:29:45] shock people that the PSOE has had with
[00:29:49] his adversaries, and it is true, yesterday you saw it on social networks,
[00:29:52] you see that from the official profiles, for example, Núñez Feijóo yesterday was
[00:29:56] demanding, but contained, I would tell you, it goes without saying, but on
[00:30:00] his networks and digital environments that you build, you already see where you are going
[00:30:03] from the official profile of the PP, it was already seen that it already
[00:30:07] pointed to a responsibility of the government, ehm, until
[00:30:11] others reminding you that Minister
[00:30:16] jokes about trains,
[00:30:20] about that he is a person who is very active on Twitter, and
[00:30:23] all this by itself would not be a problem if what happened
[00:30:27] had not happened, that is, you can understand that there is a minister who has this shock
[00:30:31] ability, ehm, of a polemicist,
[00:30:34] ehm, of a showman, etcetera, if things were going well, but a disaster of
[00:30:38] these characteristics happens, and the logical thing is that
[00:30:42] you ask the politicians why they are there if at the highest level they do not have to respond to
[00:30:45] such a situation, two, that the opposition goes directly to him because if the
[00:30:49] head fell or if they cut off the head politically of a minister like
[00:30:52] Puente, the fact is that it would mean much more and more in a campaign context,
[00:30:56] I believe that this context will obviously suffer wear and tear.