TV3 — broadcast
20261029 103000 UTC
402 transcript segments
Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive.
Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record.

[00:00:00] when an obstacle is detected, the track also
[00:00:03] monitors the position, so we can know where the trains are
[00:00:06] as well as their speed, but as we said, it allows
[00:00:09] for automatic stopping if there is an obstacle on the track. If the system
[00:00:13] fails, this automation disappears, everything is left in the hands
[00:00:17] of the train drivers and the controllers at
[00:00:20] Atocha. At 8:36,
[00:00:23] the AVE is authorized from this Atocha control center, after a
[00:00:27] communication that we will now hear with the train driver, to
[00:00:30] resume circulation, and let's keep one
[00:00:33] thing in mind, it tells him to do it
[00:00:35] normally.
[00:00:39] Cercatocha train driver, is it train
[00:00:42] 2080? Yes, 2080 at
[00:00:45] 08:36.
[00:00:49] Yes, this says train driver
[00:00:52] in
[00:01:00] two but eight but
[00:01:05] eight. If we do it in the case of disconnect disconnect and reconnect
[00:01:07] the
[00:01:14] LZB LZB and resume
[00:01:17] march and resume the march under the protection of the
[00:01:20] BSL under the protection of the BSL with
[00:01:24] normal march with normal march, okay, all right
[00:01:28] then, later tell me when you take it, okay,
[00:01:33] carriage of a speech where we have
[00:01:35] heard "normal march" and a long speech where we hear
[00:01:39] the train driver forcefully when he is given
[00:01:41] orders, but the controller's
[00:01:45] voice has moments
[00:01:48] image, which is an aerial that are more hesitant, but let's focus now on this
[00:01:50] communication that is at 8:36 and what happens at 8:43, a few minutes after
[00:01:54] this authorization with normality, well, the AVE starts
[00:01:57] circulating, let's remember that there were... 5 km
[00:02:01] between the AVE and the IRYO, the AVE starts
[00:02:04] circulating, but it does so at normal speed, that is,
[00:02:07] this section is authorized up to 200 km/h, it is not doing it
[00:02:11] ticket, well, at this moment by sight, what does "by sight" mean? Up to a maximum limit of 40
[00:02:14] km/h, for a logical reason, at 40
[00:02:18] and also the part of the teeth, that is, km/h, a train driver who does not have an automated system,
[00:02:21] if he detects an obstacle in his environment, is capable of
[00:02:25] detecting it and perhaps braking with enough
[00:02:28] distance so that... nothing happens with this
[00:02:31] obstacle that may be on the track.
[00:02:34] 8:43, the AVE starts
[00:02:37] the tone, the final tone of circulating, but two minutes before and this is also important, there is a communication between IRYO, which
[00:02:41] is stopped further ahead, and the control
[00:02:45] that she cannot reconnect the center.
[00:02:48] the person and second to establish the cause of 60-76, Atocha here, behind from the AVE good morning, good
[00:02:51] morning, I had a transmission loss at
[00:02:54] 40, I have been circulating in BCL, I passed through the next CDI
[00:02:58] at 113. 200 but I did not get transmission, I am stopped
[00:03:02] at the entrance signal of Urda, okay, it is
[00:03:05] stopped at the entrance signal indeed that's right
[00:03:09] we close, we change the signal and take note to
[00:03:12] notify it okay when
[00:03:15] you want, okay give me a second while we close the
[00:03:18] signal
[00:03:25] we change the aspect of the same okay and now we
[00:03:27] notify you, we do not authorize you to pass, okay,
[00:03:30] so pay attention to the signaling and I pass you to my colleague,
[00:03:45] yes,
[00:03:49] no, okay, okay, well, look, train driver with
[00:03:52] 775, 775 at
[00:03:56] 08:41, at 08:41.
[00:04:00] Atocha train driver, we are with 6076,
[00:04:03] right? Yes, that's right, okay,
[00:04:05] well,
[00:04:08] one moment, this says
[00:04:12] train driver of
[00:04:15] train,
[00:04:17] 6076,
[00:04:20] 6076,
[00:04:21] disconnect
[00:04:25] and reconnect,
[00:04:26] and reconnect the
[00:04:29] LZB system
[00:04:31] the LZB
[00:04:34] system and resume
[00:04:37] march under the protection of the
[00:04:40] BSL with
[00:04:44] normal march
[00:04:49] okay perfect well thank you very much then when the differimeter is finished
[00:04:52] we continue in BSL okay perfect thanks
[00:04:56] see you now
[00:04:59] you have heard again "normal march", in this case an order for the
[00:05:03] IRYO train driver, let's remember that it is an order that at
[00:05:06] 8:36 had been given to some trains and that is why the AVE had
[00:05:10] started circulating here we have heard a long
[00:05:12] conversation between the IRYO train driver who is unable to start her
[00:05:16] train, but she doesn't know that meanwhile the AVE is
[00:05:19] already circulating, that's why it was at 8:41, at
[00:05:23] 8:48 we have another communication
[00:05:26] from IRYO with the control center, it is a shorter communication,
[00:05:30] but in which she reaffirms that she is still stopped and cannot
[00:05:33] continue her journey.
[00:05:36] 676.
[00:05:42] This
[00:05:50] sequence
[00:05:59] from just before 8 in the morning we know that it ends around
[00:06:03] 8:54 with this crash, with this accident, and I want to
[00:06:07] show you this image to understand the magnitude of the accident
[00:06:11] because if we start counting how many cars each
[00:06:15] train has, they should have
[00:06:18] the IRYO, we can count that there are six cars that are more or less
[00:06:22] on the track and that two of them have fallen on the ground. If
[00:06:25] we count in the case of the AVE, we do it from top to bottom, this way would be
[00:06:29] towards Seville and there would be Madrid. So the AVE came from that
[00:06:33] direction. We can count six, one
[00:06:36] is destroyed and the eighth is not there.
[00:06:39] Analyzing all the images that have arrived these eh these. in the last
[00:06:43] hours I want to show you this other one that is
[00:06:45] shocking. This is IRYO, we can recognize it by its
[00:06:49] red tones, which would be the last
[00:06:52] car that the AVE encounters before impacting it, and the
[00:06:56] first car of the AVE, which is the one we are missing in this
[00:07:00] Civil Guard image, we cannot have it with more quality
[00:07:04] it is inside this last
[00:07:06] wagon, this allows us to understand that this
[00:07:10] normal march that could have been at... this point that was
[00:07:13] authorized up to 200 km per hour allows
[00:07:16] us to understand that perhaps this crash occurred at 200
[00:07:20] km per hour and that it entered like a projectile inside the last
[00:07:24] IRYO wagon, there are many questions about what
[00:07:28] happened during this hour between 8 and
[00:07:31] 9 in the morning, also questions about the security system
[00:07:35] and Sara, the latest news is that it is a security system that seems it is not the
[00:07:39] first time it had failed in recent months, well yes, in
[00:07:42] fact, the Cerc radio station has just reported that the Urda railway
[00:07:46] section has registered nine signaling failures since the end of
[00:07:49] May 2024 until now, this year 2026 it has failed four
[00:07:53] days, two of them due to cable theft, these are official data from DIF, in
[00:07:57] 2024, the Railway Accident Commission already asked to take measures
[00:08:00] for the high probability of a human error like the one that would have caused
[00:08:03] yesterday's accident, which has left so far 89 fatalities, let's remember, what
[00:08:07] we are seeing is precisely the first tweet that talks about...
[00:08:11] May 29, 2024, informing
[00:08:14] of a delay on the line due to signaling problems,
[00:08:17] notice between Urda and Malagón, eh, this new
[00:08:21] incident, the next tweet, is from 2025 due to an incident in the
[00:08:25] signaling systems that also caused delays
[00:08:28] in the service, we finish this sample of incidents of the
[00:08:31] signaling in this section with this message, the next one, which is from July
[00:08:35] 2026, therefore, eh, they
[00:08:39] would not seem isolated events. Yesterday
[00:08:42] itself, in fact, a user, we can see the tweet, complained that her train, which
[00:08:46] was doing this route between Madrid and Seville, had braked, according to the
[00:08:49] tweet, braked and stopped suddenly more than four
[00:08:53] times in just 10 minutes, she lamented that nobody had
[00:08:56] informed them of the causes of these stops. We finish with a last-minute
[00:09:00] information that you are already seeing at the top of the screen, a Wigo
[00:09:03] train, the train that makes the route between Murcia and Valladolid has stopped
[00:09:06] at the height of Aranjuez due to a problem with the catenary, published by the official Wigo profile
[00:09:10] less than fifteen minutes ago. no personal damage has been registered
[00:09:14] and in fact, Adif has just published that they are also working to
[00:09:18] solve this new incident, let's see Andreu with everything
[00:09:21] we have explained so far, eh, a first
[00:09:24] assessment after the audios and then we will also go into what is
[00:09:28] happening today because as things are, I don't know who will dare to take a
[00:09:32] train, excuse me, eh but goodness gracious
[00:09:35] yes, eh here the first thing I would highlight
[00:09:38] is what you highlighted before that in two
[00:09:41] years there were accidents. Besides, experience always shows that
[00:09:44] these things always warn, um,
[00:09:48] now we have all this narrative of accidents or previous
[00:09:51] incidents, they counted up to nine, we also had the
[00:09:55] Adamus accident, we had the
[00:09:57] well,
[00:10:00] yes, yes, all in less than a year, and then this should
[00:10:04] lead to reflection first of all, these moments I hope that
[00:10:08] they will immediately do everything necessary.
[00:10:13] to improve safety in all senses, the
[00:10:17] Demus accident was a problem with the
[00:10:20] rails, yes, and then also. One
[00:10:23] could go into the detail of the three
[00:10:26] safety systems that exist, which are
[00:10:29] the LZB, the BCL, the
[00:10:33] ASFA, the ASFA and why each of them failed, but well I would also
[00:10:37] like to look a little bit in perspective
[00:10:39] in perspective, well, eh, what happens
[00:10:43] because when several things happen throughout
[00:10:46] the geography of the state there is a common factor here and that is what
[00:10:50] they have, what is it that they have? What common factor
[00:10:53] is this? Um, I would highlight that Spain
[00:10:56] is the second country in the world with the most
[00:11:00] kilometers of AVE after China and
[00:11:03] this has been talked about for many years, since Germadel's book was
[00:11:07] published, which has all the data
[00:11:09] and there are many lines that are loss-making, many
[00:11:13] lines are loss-making, that is, they were built for political reasons
[00:11:16] basically, um, they connect provincial
[00:11:19] capitals, not for profitability, not
[00:11:23] for
[00:11:25] serving the client, but basically for political reasons and the issue is to
[00:11:29] reflect, I'm not saying they should be closed, but if they
[00:11:32] are maintained, there cannot be a drop in safety
[00:11:36] levels. If it is true that it costs a lot to maintain infrastructures like
[00:11:39] these, because, of course, if they are so many and a country in the world with more
[00:11:42] infrastructures, with more, with more kilometers of AVE,
[00:11:46] it surely costs a lot to maintain it, but eh, if they want to
[00:11:49] maintain them, they have to invest enough so that something like this
[00:11:53] never happens again. Eh, for example, eh, Councilwoman
[00:11:57] Paneke, I discovered the concept of ghost trains with Councilwoman
[00:12:00] Paneke, as a result of the case of, well, that all the
[00:12:03] tracks were stopped and ghost trains were put into circulation that basically
[00:12:07] are trains where there is no one and they serve to detect where there are
[00:12:11] problems as an extraordinary measure, I'm going to China
[00:12:14] now and one of the things I've discovered is that in China I will use the high-speed train in
[00:12:18] China Elena and one of the things I discovered is that since the high-speed
[00:12:21] lines were built in China every night. a
[00:12:25] ghost train is called maintenance, what Andreu was telling you, eh, I also want to say
[00:12:29] something else in relation to the audios, eh, we
[00:12:32] have all been very impacted by these audios because, as we commented,
[00:12:35] one of the train drivers, the AVE one, is dead,
[00:12:38] correct, um, after listening, that is, after the LZB
[00:12:42] system failed, as Minister Puente said,
[00:12:46] this is exceptional but it can
[00:12:49] happen, of course, I understand that in an Atocha
[00:12:52] control center the attention must be maximum, maximum
[00:12:56] because this system has failed and because there are trains
[00:12:59] circulating,
[00:13:02] the IRYO train driver in relation to the
[00:13:06] person who is giving her instructions is
[00:13:10] LZB system, she cannot start the train,
[00:13:13] he replies: well, if you have problems,
[00:13:17] call me, yes, of course, this strikes me very much and calls my
[00:13:21] attention very much because we are at... a moment of maximum
[00:13:24] tension in this area, I'm sorry and I add what
[00:13:27] Elena says and we even hear eh in another
[00:13:31] connect, disconnect and reconnect disconnect, a
[00:13:34] total improvisation, but of course this is a total improvisation, it's not that I
[00:13:38] don't know it because we are not experts and therefore that's why we ask
[00:13:41] you about it, this is strange,
[00:13:44] mm, well, I guess that
[00:13:48] no, I've never been to one of these control centers, but basically it
[00:13:52] doesn't seem normal to me, the improvisation, but of course I wouldn't
[00:13:56] want to think about that poor controller who is there seeing that things are going
[00:13:59] badly, um, but about the protocols, I mean, this
[00:14:03] is not that, but as engineers, exactly, that is, as engineers, that is, okay,
[00:14:07] imagine that this gentleman, well, if you have problems, call me, okay, but it's
[00:14:10] that all the technology that is working in this
[00:14:14] center, how come alarms don't start ringing? It cannot depend on the
[00:14:18] decision of one person and these are the protocols that must be in place and it
[00:14:21] should not allow a person to improvise in this way. Because
[00:14:25] it is true, it is, I think it is evident if you look, from the information we have and the audios
[00:14:29] we have, some errors, you say restart the march when
[00:14:32] all this seems a bit like connect, disconnect, eh, what is this, I mean,
[00:14:36] dir,
[00:14:39] it is really eh
[00:14:41] that there may have been a
[00:14:45] conditional human error, but it is that we are already in
[00:14:48] another phase, the technology, why
[00:14:51] don't they stop the AVE, why doesn't it stop
[00:14:55] suddenly because the AVE already detects an obstacle
[00:14:58] ahead, things indeed, I mean, first when in any case
[00:15:01] in case they decided to restart the march with a manual system because
[00:15:05] it is recorded that the LZB system, which is the one that allows
[00:15:08] automatic braking with automatic control, was not working, it can be
[00:15:12] restarted in these cases, the march can be restarted but with
[00:15:16] a safety speed that is usually about 40 km per
[00:15:19] hour, this is "march by sight" yes, "march by sight" with the
[00:15:22] traffic light system which is the BCL.
[00:15:25] And, but of course, it says "normal march", "normal march" means 200 km per
[00:15:28] hour, I mean, everything fails here, eh, Andreu, we are facing
[00:15:32] the public transport system of Spain, how
[00:15:35] is it possible that there is no... a second program for when
[00:15:39] the first one fails so that the human part doesn't come in, because with everything that
[00:15:43] is at the level of a private company, when the
[00:15:47] first security system fails, everyone,
[00:15:49] everyone has a second system and precisely there are
[00:15:53] audits that are fundamental and even more so today with technology and there is
[00:15:57] another basic, fundamental issue which is the continuous
[00:16:00] training of all those people who participate in the process,
[00:16:04] thank Andreu Canals very much. for having
[00:16:07] been able to accompany us, we will try to resolve doubts during
[00:16:11] the program because effectively with the failure of the
[00:16:15] LZB system, as Marc Guadilla was explaining, at 200 km per hour,
[00:16:18] an AVE stops being a train to become a projectile, let's take a short
[00:16:22] break at this point and immediately we start listening to testimonies until now.
[00:22:36] Roger Redia has also just joined the table Roger. Thank you for
[00:22:39] joining us, as an expert also in security, after a
[00:22:42] tragedy like this, you will help us understand
[00:22:45] how all these recovery tasks are carried out. The
[00:22:49] work of the forensic experts, Andreu here is very grateful that he wanted to continue
[00:22:52] with us because, more or less, all the people
[00:22:56] who were also or who already had a train
[00:23:01] they are reconsidering whether to take a train or not, now also this
[00:23:04] incident that has occurred with this Iryo train in Aranjuez
[00:23:08] and surely some of you yesterday after this tragedy and
[00:23:12] now I'm going to ask Andreu the question,
[00:23:15] we can ask ourselves if we have to take
[00:23:18] an AVE, is there a safer wagon?
[00:23:21] eh, I don't think it has been studied, but well, basically I guess what we all say
[00:23:25] is that it is evident that the front wagons are the ones that, from what we have seen in the
[00:23:28] images of the different accidents around, well, the one that receives the first
[00:23:32] impact. Then of course we have seen that the IRYO is the one that receives the blow from
[00:23:36] eh I don't think it has been studied but
[00:23:40] basically eh more towards the back or in the
[00:23:42] middle, the central wagons, not in the
[00:23:46] sense of the center, it is clear that in front but it is a matter of probabilities, I mean, you can be in an
[00:23:50] accident anywhere, but we are seeing the images, Roger
[00:23:53] Edia, he is explaining to us the immense
[00:23:57] tasks that the emergency teams are doing, we have
[00:24:01] also seen the cranes how they have worked since yesterday morning all
[00:24:04] night cutting eh the wagons,
[00:24:08] removing scrap metal, trying to find human
[00:24:11] remains as well, there are many missing people, it is understood
[00:24:15] that it is known where these people were going,
[00:24:19] um how... do these moments work? First of
[00:24:22] all, mm, from the police, forensic and judicial
[00:24:26] action, what needs to be done is two things: the first: the ocular inspection of the
[00:24:29] causes, that is, at a judicial level, there is a secret summary and a judicial action that
[00:24:33] coordinates the action of the forensic doctors, the scientific police, and what we are seeing on one
[00:24:36] side is the action of how these three groups are trying to lift these
[00:24:40] wagons, trying to recover if there are human remains to collect biological
[00:24:44] remains, and how they are working, how they do this, well, with professionals, currently
[00:24:48] there are more than 800 personnel working.
[00:24:50] of which are health services, of which are more than 100 personnel from the
[00:24:54] UME, more than 400 personnel from the Civil Guard, more than
[00:24:58] 50 personnel from the National Police and what is the objective first, as I said, with the dogs, with
[00:25:02] the drones, to be able to recover all the victims and human remains, therefore,
[00:25:05] ocular inspection and recovery of remains, on the other hand
[00:25:09] the ocular inspection of the causes, we have seen that many drones are used
[00:25:12] to try to create a virtual tour with high-resolution
[00:25:16] scanners to be able to know what has happened with coordination also with
[00:25:19] the... railway accident investigation commission, but above all it is a
[00:25:23] judicial action that is being carried out, therefore, you have also seen
[00:25:27] that the Civil Guard yesterday through its criminalistics
[00:25:30] service made the call to be able to eh create five centers with
[00:25:34] which families that are family care areas with which
[00:25:37] they have to go to file these reports therefore
[00:25:41] report the disappearance of a family member and then collect the
[00:25:44] biological samples for what, well, as we have said many times Elena, what is being
[00:25:48] done at this moment, we have confirmed 69 victims, this figure
[00:25:52] may increase, this morning we had a total of
[00:25:55] 64 reports of disappearance, this will surely
[00:25:59] also increase, what is done? with this attention to families? what is
[00:26:02] done is to take photos, description, objects they were carrying, elements that are
[00:26:06] identifying, antemortem information, before
[00:26:09] death, post-mortem information at the scene of the incident, bodies and
[00:26:12] human remains are also recovered. What needs to be done, well, there
[00:26:16] is a protocol that coordinates the action with the forensic team. Currently, we have
[00:26:20] about 25 forensic specialists, that is, judicial committees at the scene of the incident.
[00:26:23] These are teams formed by scientific police and forensic
[00:26:27] doctors coordinated to be able to carry out the action at the
[00:26:30] scene of the incident. In addition to these bodies, I believe there are 54 bodies
[00:26:34] that have already been taken to Toledo, to the Forensic Institute
[00:26:37] to be able to perform autopsies. We believe that when there is an accident
[00:26:41] of this type, these deaths are qualified as
[00:26:44] violent, so there must be a judicial investigation, there must
[00:26:47] be an autopsy, and that is what is being done. So, in these cases
[00:26:51] of great catastrophes with many victims, there is a coordination protocol,
[00:26:54] as I said, at the level of judicial action by forensic doctors
[00:26:58] and scientific police to be able to help with this
[00:27:02] coordinated action. It is planned to create a data
[00:27:05] integration center, okay? A data integration center with a responsible
[00:27:08] office for forensic doctors and another for the police in total
[00:27:12] coordination and communication. Why? To be able to be more agile and faster
[00:27:16] in identifying these victims, excuse me, Roger,
[00:27:19] that the families
[00:27:22] ask for their DNA because, of course,
[00:27:26] we have seen the images that Marc presented, which is a train at
[00:27:30] 200 km per hour crashing
[00:27:33] inside the the train. So
[00:27:37] there, mmm, few
[00:27:40] people, that is, I'm sorry to be so graphic
[00:27:43] now, but there will be remains, they won't find more
[00:27:47] people, I suppose that's why the DNA is for, to be able to identify
[00:27:50] these remains. Uh, the important thing, as I said, is the part of the
[00:27:54] recovery of bodies and human remains. From here, what types of
[00:27:57] identifications will we ask about, how these people can be identified, right? I think we've
[00:28:01] said it quite a few times. It's Interpol that sets the reference level for
[00:28:05] identifications. It says that first by fingerprints, you know that fingerprints
[00:28:09] are completely variable between people. This allows for a
[00:28:12] quick identification by comparing with
[00:28:15] police databases, and from there also DNA,
[00:28:20] these three ways,
[00:28:23] the part of the fingerprints, the DNA, the part of the teeth are
[00:28:26] identifying elements that Interpol recognizes. From
[00:28:30] there, if the person wears a prosthesis.
[00:28:43] from the scene of the incident with the coordination of the autopsy room where all
[00:28:46] this study will be done, first to identify
[00:28:50] death in a tragedy like this, are remains found
[00:28:54] everywhere or can it happen that no remains are found
[00:28:58] and then the person is listed as missing and
[00:29:01] what are the consequences? This also ends up having, and then there's another question
[00:29:05] I wanted to ask you because I was reading it today in the newspapers, and I think
[00:29:08] all of us, more or less, have done it sometime when we've gone on a train, that sometimes
[00:29:12] you go with people and some are sitting here and others on another
[00:29:16] side, we get together and in the end we see that here there are empty
[00:29:19] chairs, also how many times this can
[00:29:22] either help or on the contrary, be an impediment to
[00:29:26] the search efforts. Look, first of all, Elena, we are talking about an incident where we know the people
[00:29:30] who are inside when you buy a ticket.
[00:29:33] It's clear seating, the advantage, so to speak, of being able to approach identification is that it is a
[00:29:37] closed list. We know the people who are inside with identification. We are
[00:29:40] facing an incident, you see that there was also no fire, that is, why do I say
[00:29:44] fire, if there had been a fire possibly these remains would have suffered
[00:29:48] degradation, this would have hindered identification, excuse me,
[00:29:51] Roger, as users uh, I'm sorry but identification
[00:29:55] with the ID card is not done, uh, okay, well yes, I'm telling you because there are little things that come to my
[00:29:58] mind, I always show the ticket, but they take it for granted that I am the person.