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20261029 170000 UTC
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[00:00:00] very overwhelmed or not very worried because well, this can be without a
[00:00:05] Contreras, thanks, one of the survivors of doubt. Yes, without a doubt, here possibly
[00:00:08] something has happened. Look, speed it up because there are delays.
[00:00:11] Something, something must have happened that is atypical for this
[00:00:15] accident to occur. An incident, an accident, of course.
[00:00:19] Let's see, never a train driver, when
[00:00:22] the city system is not operational, can
[00:00:25] start his journey. He has to go at walking speed.
[00:00:28] Never, these are rules. So,
[00:01:01] on it with I was going to say with the wild
[00:01:04] family, but the wild family has been reduced to two
[00:01:07] members, well, two or three, at most four.
[00:01:10] Eh, Antoni Basses, eh, the Valfageme, good afternoon to both of you. Good afternoon.
[00:01:14] We are accompanied by Ester Pagès, good afternoon, and
[00:01:17] Nil Marbà, eh, that we have already
[00:01:21] yesterday morning depending on the introduced. I don't know what you think in the end, that everything depends on a call from a train operator
[00:01:25] who says well, it seems that everything is
[00:01:28] automated, but. but in the end these mechanisms even
[00:01:32] fail, a red traffic light, you say well, go
[00:01:35] through, and more at normal speed. Yes, from the explanations yesterday from the
[00:01:39] minister Puente and these audios that we have heard today, it is deduced
[00:01:42] that something incomprehensible happened. It is true, that is, why do they
[00:01:46] tell him to circulate and at normal speed, and how is it possible that with
[00:01:49] the available technology that we have today, that we can locate, you could now
[00:01:53] know where your children are from their mobile phone, and they say they
[00:01:57] cannot know that there is a train ahead. This is true.
[00:02:00] Now, ahm, I
[00:02:03] believe it was not very
[00:02:07] decent, eh, the accusation that minister Puente made
[00:02:10] of a person from, that is, except to say the name,
[00:02:14] well, he left him absolutely in the spotlight and now we hear the voice and then this
[00:02:18] morning they passed us the audios that normally are things that should be at judicial
[00:02:22] disposal or that should be part of the secrecy of the investigations,
[00:02:26] that is, someone, and someone in this case, it can only be the Ministry of Transport.
[00:02:30] The Moncloa itself wants us to know, to
[00:02:33] internalize that this has been a problem of one person, that this
[00:02:37] is a human error,
[00:02:39] personal. Well, listen, when you have
[00:02:43] an accident, you have a tragedy, but when you have
[00:02:46] two, you no longer have only two tragedies,
[00:02:50] you have a systemic error, that is,
[00:02:52] eh, these days or these last hours I have spoken with
[00:02:56] with engineers who knew a lot about this matter and they told me, look...
[00:03:01] it's... we are not in the society of The accident that happened in Demurt is a contractor who does not do the
[00:03:03] work of renovating the track well and the train passes and derails.
[00:03:06] He says where was the problem here, a poorly done work and a poor
[00:03:10] quality control of the work, very well, he says: but what happened
[00:03:14] there is in terms of railway safety infinitely
[00:03:18] more serious because for years there have been systems
[00:03:21] so that these things do not happen, therefore here it is not only a
[00:03:25] human error, that is, the human error is the last ratio,
[00:03:29] let's say... the last episode that already comes
[00:03:32] from a series of errors of the system and this will
[00:03:36] to cast off the responsibilities on the part of minister
[00:03:39] Puente, eh, for perfectly comprehensible reasons,
[00:03:42] personal, electoral, political, etcetera, it seems
[00:03:45] to me very indecent, honestly. Albert, well, I believe
[00:03:49] that obviously, eh, everything that Antoni was
[00:03:53] saying, I totally agree, what happens is that I feel a bit overwhelmed,
[00:03:57] that is, emotionally by the pain. Yes, but
[00:04:00] at the same time by all this battle that is fought within an
[00:04:04] electoral moment in which you have the feeling that
[00:04:07] constantly, no, eh, some say, others don't say, you don't know what is
[00:04:12] days and what we true, what is not true, what is information, what is disinformation, and in the
[00:04:15] middle of this, 74 people died with their families, with their contexts, with their
[00:04:18] environments, with very painful moments, that you look at the
[00:04:22] images and for a moment you try to connect with that and it's overwhelming
[00:04:26] and it's like the feeling of
[00:04:29] of a... if if it happens to you, eh, but like a great ball,
[00:04:33] okay, a great dark ball, what's more, this makes this
[00:04:36] an even more painful moment because when you're trying
[00:04:40] to do it, it could be done from a clean place, try to do a good investigation, but all
[00:04:44] this hip this hyperinformation,
[00:04:48] moreover in an electoral context like the one we have, I
[00:04:51] honestly think it
[00:04:53] to assume this responsibility, what is excessive, it is excessive that now it comes out, eh, now
[00:04:56] at this moment we have talked with experts, but sometimes you put on the... you put on the
[00:05:00] TV people who have no idea what they are talking
[00:05:04] about and they are like adding, no, some hypotheses that
[00:05:07] have nothing to do with reality and right now I think that socially we also
[00:05:11] need a bit of calm.
[00:05:18] we still don't know how many people have died, when there are still people who have not been able to go to pick up their dead people
[00:05:22] they still can't be accompanied and it's all
[00:05:25] together, I have the feeling of a very bad management for the moment
[00:05:28] because it could, that is, it couldn't have happened at a worse moment than an electoral
[00:05:32] moment, precisely because of this a battle is being fought to win public
[00:05:35] opinion, based even, you won't tell me why we are hearing these
[00:05:39] conversations now, well, I don't know.
[00:05:42] surely these conversations eh are
[00:05:45] working, but these people, yes, but it surprises me, even, to learn of these
[00:05:49] conversations, it surprises me a lot what Antoni was commenting on just now, we were commenting on it today in the
[00:05:53] newsroom, why haven't the voices been distorted, exposing the workers in this way,
[00:05:57] and even today, eh, a
[00:05:59] train driver from Ilio has communicated through her whatsapp status
[00:06:03] profile: "I'm fine, it's just that I'll be disconnected for a few days."
[00:06:07] Obviously, it's unusual that in cases like this we know
[00:06:11] the recordings at...
[00:06:20] that it was leaked, this is what surprised me the most. Well, this leads you to a state of
[00:06:24] collapse because you don't even have time to
[00:06:27] process anything. If you were to say, "Look, the
[00:06:31] railway service in Spain is excellent," no, but we already
[00:06:34] had a very serious accident in January, by the way, a death in Gelida,
[00:06:38] in Rodalies, Rodalies doesn't work because for many years they have only
[00:06:41] invested in high was deteriorating, that is, there were
[00:06:45] these days that many data are circulating, I would like to highlight
[00:06:49] some, ehm, since
[00:06:51] 2019 the number of passengers has doubled because there was the liberalization,
[00:06:55] more companies entered, this means more than 40 million passengers per
[00:06:59] year, that is, imagine the intensity and the wear and tear of the service,
[00:07:03] but also under these conditions, data from
[00:07:06] 2022 shows that Spain spent
[00:07:10] half as much on maintenance per kilometer as the European
[00:07:13] Union average, well, then, now, now, now
[00:07:17] tell me if all the blame is on a gentleman who was in a control center and gave
[00:07:20] incomprehensible orders, come on, now we just heard and commented on these
[00:07:24] statements from the Minister of Transport, Óscar
[00:07:26] Puente, and it is the control center through
[00:07:30] its operators that makes the decision to resume the
[00:07:33] march, as I say, in circumstances that from
[00:07:37] our point of view are inexplicable, statements
[00:07:40] that have angered train drivers and railway workers who have felt singled out by the
[00:07:44] minister, as expressed by the general secretary of
[00:07:47] railway workers of the UGT, State Federation of Services, Mobility and Consumption, Raquel
[00:07:51] González.
[00:07:55] Or look for the consequences, we look directly for a culprit, who
[00:07:58] is a person, who is a worker and that no one can go to their job
[00:08:02] and be singled out and even less without knowing the investigation,
[00:08:05] even less without knowing what has failed in the system.
[00:08:09] Well, the spokesman for UGT train drivers. of Renfe in
[00:08:13] Catalonia is Francisco Cárdenes, we also spoke with Francisco Cárdenas yesterday.
[00:08:16] Good afternoon, Francisco.
[00:08:20] Eh, how have these statements from Minister Puente
[00:08:24] been received, which point to the control center?
[00:08:27] Well, they haven't been received well at all, regardless of the control center or
[00:08:31] any other point. What do we mean? Well, it's very
[00:08:34] simple, we've been going for many years, and it's not just a few, it's
[00:08:38] quite a lot, too many, where there's been a lot.
[00:08:42] Due to age, many people at the Renfe company have retired, fewer people have entered than
[00:08:46] have retired, the productivity or the work
[00:08:49] ratio has increased, so much more has been
[00:08:52] demanded than there is. This, well,
[00:08:56] means an increase in work, directly more workload,
[00:08:59] and well,
[00:09:01] so,
[00:09:04] eh, the summary can be that the
[00:09:08] reduction of personnel has been
[00:09:11] prioritized. or the increase in workload depending on which people, depending on which places,
[00:09:15] when there are certain places that are so strategic and so important
[00:09:18] that this cannot be done, that is, we are very clear that there cannot be less than one
[00:09:22] train driver on a train, we are very clear that one inspector is the minimum there can be on
[00:09:26] a train, but we are not very clear how many people have to be in a management center or
[00:09:29] how many people have to be in a command post as in this case of circulation,
[00:09:33] then, well, at a time when you have a certain
[00:09:37] number of trains, as the other day six were left hanging when the
[00:09:41] system goes down, eh, which is not very high, I'm sorry, that's the
[00:09:44] truth, but you transfer that to commuter trains, when it happens
[00:09:48] here, when it happens to us in Rodalies, we find ourselves, we
[00:09:51] find ourselves with 20 or 30 trains at a time,
[00:09:55] so it changes radically, doesn't it?
[00:09:58] it's not with Rodalies, there can be 20 or 30 trains at the
[00:10:02] same time pending a control center, I don't know, what did you
[00:10:06] think, Mr. Cárdenas, about this leak of the
[00:10:08] audios, eh, that were already circulating last night.
[00:10:15] we could already hear exactly what happened, do you think your colleagues felt singled out in some
[00:10:19] way? Well, yes, but
[00:10:22] unfortunately we live in a country. complicated, in
[00:10:26] a country where if this were the first time it happened, we could say that it is something
[00:10:30] totally directed, direct, fabricated, however you want to call it, but I
[00:10:33] believe that in the last, I don't know, let's say 10 years and 25
[00:10:37] trials there have been in Spain of corruption, of embezzlement,
[00:10:41] news has been leaked, videos live of the
[00:10:44] declarations, that is, we are in an excessively complicated country
[00:10:48] where it seems that these leaks do not
[00:10:51] mean anything and they are very important because people... they
[00:10:55] can feel harassed directly
[00:10:58] eh by something that is in secret, by that
[00:11:02] investigation by a judge, whether by the police or in this
[00:11:06] case by the railway safety agency, but it is true that it is something
[00:11:09] very common, it is something very common in Spain, eh, which does
[00:11:12] not mean that it is correct, quite the opposite, well, here there have been
[00:11:16] some more leaks of some declarations,
[00:11:19] well, of some conversations that
[00:11:22] try to clarify or
[00:11:26] at all times what happened, but there are many more conversations, that
[00:11:29] is, there were six trains, eh, realize that here
[00:11:33] we are analyzing some details, but there are more details to analyze in the
[00:11:36] environment, there was a train that was going up another track, not the ones that were going down to
[00:11:40] Seville, the one that was going up from Seville to Madrid, which was 2
[00:11:43] km away, eh, imagine if something had
[00:11:46] happened that there had been instead of a two-way collision, a three-way collision, all this
[00:11:50] has to be put
[00:11:53] in time, eh, eh, because all the conversations are recorded to the second and
[00:11:56] then there is a video where you can see the movement of all the trains
[00:12:00] also to the second, so you have to put it all at once to see how
[00:12:04] they have been ordered, how things have been said, to be able to analyze
[00:12:07] deeply the accident, eh,
[00:12:11] that I suppose that when the railway safety agency together with the judge who has to
[00:12:15] instruct the case plus the corresponding police, well,
[00:12:18] they will analyze and a detail will come out, but first of all try to
[00:12:22] direct the focus to a specific person.
[00:12:33] they don't strike, I understand, eh, but they
[00:12:36] have logically added minutes of silence
[00:12:40] to the protest, eh, finally, Mr. Cárdenas,
[00:12:43] do you think it is a human error or a system
[00:12:47] error, or a sum of
[00:12:48] errors?
[00:12:51] when the investigation is over, we'll see. You just commented that we
[00:12:55] have joined the strike, and I'm going to
[00:12:59] explain it to you, if you don't mind, in a minute. We understand
[00:13:02] from UGT that the solution to the problem
[00:13:05] is not to make a strike proposal immediately,
[00:13:09] which coincided because it coincided with the accident,
[00:13:12] which was called much earlier, but it is
[00:13:16] true that what we had discussed among ourselves was to do something in a different
[00:13:19] way, that is, to call all the agents involved, that is,
[00:13:23] the ministry, the government, let's put it that simply, autonomous
[00:13:27] communities and Renfe and tell them, "Well, ladies and gentlemen,
[00:13:30] we had a strike call with the Antemuz accident and later Gelida in
[00:13:34] February, with more than important issues that have
[00:13:37] not advanced, that have not progressed.
[00:13:40] Eh, note that we negotiated specifically in Barcelona,
[00:13:43] commissions, the issue of weather-related actions,
[00:13:46] and the rains have returned and we still haven't made
[00:13:50] progress on the issue, not even close, we don't even have
[00:13:54] half of it done. Therefore, there comes a time when that slowness
[00:13:58] seems that instead of trying to go up stairs to improve, we have stopped,
[00:14:01] so we have to try to solve
[00:14:04] this, we have to see in some way that the tunnel has an
[00:14:08] exit, that we try to advance, that we try to improve, that we try to make this work
[00:14:11] well, now if we are seeing that the situation is paralyzed and does not improve,
[00:14:15] that is where we have to try and we plan to do it differently, that is, either
[00:14:19] we do something in a short time or at Christmas, ladies and gentlemen, I'm very sorry but we are going to go
[00:14:22] on strike, eh,
[00:14:26] eh, well, it hasn't happened this way because the union has done it on its own
[00:14:29] and the accident has arrived now at a very complicated
[00:14:33] moment, it must be said, but well, the accident happens
[00:14:37] when it happens, that's all, and I wish it had never happened, so, well, here we are,
[00:14:40] let's see what happens in the future with the decisions
[00:14:44] also of the rest of the union and the general committee of the Renfe company, who see that this is not
[00:15:01] eh? Yes. He says to attack in December, towards December, towards
[00:15:04] Christmas. Which is a time of many trips, of course, of much family
[00:15:08] reunification, let's say. Exactly, here there could be a more resounding strike
[00:15:11] than today's, which also logically made itself felt by
[00:15:15] users, but, but the users of Rodalies
[00:15:18] especially, also, lately those of high speed are so
[00:15:21] affected by the poor functioning of the service that... Yes, yes,
[00:15:25] but we'll see, let me now greet Miguel
[00:15:29] Contreras, who is one of the survivors of yesterday's
[00:15:32] train accident, in this case he was traveling on the Iryo, it has
[00:15:36] already been more than a day since the crash and we want to know how
[00:15:40] he is and how he has experienced
[00:15:55] I'm perfect, eh, I don't even know
[00:15:58] how I have a guardian angel protecting me because people were
[00:16:01] bad in the car in front, in the car behind, and the people around
[00:16:05] me were covered in blood, so ...
[00:16:27] I was there on the train, eh, since I didn't experience such a
[00:16:30] strong impact, I personally,
[00:16:33] mm, as soon as I saw that we were hitting, I didn't know what was happening, if it was
[00:16:37] bombs or a crash, I didn't know anything, I didn't know what was
[00:16:40] happening, I felt the blow, I hit my head against the seat in front but I didn't hurt
[00:16:44] myself and nothing, I heard some creaks, I started to hear
[00:16:47] clack clack clack and I said, well, we've derailed and I
[00:16:51] called my family and told them, hey, we've had an accident, we've
[00:16:55] derailed but don't worry because I'm perfectly fine,
[00:16:59] eh, the only thing is I'm going to be late, tell my
[00:17:02] workers and eh nothing, and when I
[00:17:05] turned around to see how people were, they were behind full of blood, the ones in front
[00:17:09] too, so I realized that
[00:17:12] well, that it was a bit stronger than I
[00:17:58] and was saved, let's say.
[00:18:01] Thank God, yes, because I called him a lot of times, being there at the station
[00:18:05] he didn't answer and I said, well, he must have fallen asleep, well, look.
[00:18:15] of yesterday's impact, you say that it wasn't that much, according to what
[00:18:19] you said just now. In
[00:18:22] the end, think that I was in car six, the big impact was
[00:18:25] received by car one, car two, car three, in the end, when I received the
[00:18:29] blow, eh, well, it no longer had so much force,
[00:18:33] it is true that in the end I am a young person and I was awake, so my body was tense and I
[00:18:37] hit my head, but I didn't hurt myself, but of course, there were older
[00:18:40] people, women and some who were sleeping, so with the
[00:18:43] blow while sleeping they split their heads, gashes all covered in blood,
[00:18:46] eh, and then they started asking for
[00:18:50] doctors, I went to car number seven to start
[00:18:54] asking for doctors but they were in the same state as us and then people started
[00:18:58] shouting, please get out, another train might come, another train might come, run,
[00:19:02] run, and well, we all tried to get out, we helped
[00:19:05] those who were bleeding, we all got out, at least those in my car
[00:19:08] and once I got out I realized the
[00:19:11] magnitude of the accident because I saw car
[00:19:14] one and two completely destroyed, eh, small
[00:19:18] children, babies bleeding, everything, well, a horror
[00:19:21] movie, eh, Miguel, eh,
[00:19:24] we now know how everything happened
[00:19:28] and there are like 17 minutes or a quarter of an hour from
[00:19:31] when it was communicated that the train was stopped, the
[00:19:35] Iryo, right, and then there's the impact and the... I don't know if it felt
[00:19:39] very long to you, but you were there stopped, I don't know if it was communicated
[00:19:42] to you by the train driver that there was a problem or
[00:19:45] something. It is an absolute disgrace,
[00:19:48] but we know what we have, that is, it catches us by
[00:19:51] surprise, even though we hear our politicians say every day
[00:19:54] no, we have the best trains in the world and they
[00:19:58] sell you the bike, in the end the people who are used to traveling by
[00:20:01] train, I for better or worse travel a lot by
[00:20:04] train, eh, delays, that it
[00:20:07] stops, that is, that is our daily bread, it happens every
[00:20:11] day, so when it stopped for me it was normal, I
[00:20:15] already took it for granted, well, I'll be late and that's it, no, no, I didn't worry because it has
[00:20:19] happened to me many times and
[00:20:22] the problem is that these people have such a
[00:20:25] thick skin or such little shame that no one is willing
[00:20:30] cannot be is that they are pointing fingers at each other, no, it's not whose fault it is, it's not whose fault it is, but well, meanwhile we have
[00:20:34] 70. I don't know how many people
[00:20:38] injured, that killing these people is free, that is, no one assumes
[00:20:42] any responsibility, they go unpunished, no, I
[00:20:45] don't think it's fair, many families will not be able to mourn the body of their
[00:20:49] relatives.
[00:21:04] longer surprised him that the train had stopped, this happens very often, that
[00:21:08] it arrives late, how many people do you not know who had to go to Madrid with
[00:21:11] a certain regularity, who said that well, I'm going by train, because everything is faster and that
[00:21:15] has switched back to the plane because the train didn't give him, that is, we are talking
[00:21:19] about a service that is deteriorating more and more, now of course, let
[00:21:22] them put the magnifying glass, put the focus and
[00:21:26] point out this human error that is surely at the very end of the
[00:21:29] chain of errors, eh, it's very good, yes, but what's
[00:21:33] before? A deterioration of the service, eh, everyone has
[00:21:37] seen this, by the way, speaking of communication, now it turns out that the
[00:21:40] Ministry of Transport again lowers the number of victims to
[00:21:44] 69, eh, even though it had been published in an official document from the
[00:21:47] Ministry of Transport, eh, early this afternoon that the
[00:21:51] fatal victims were 74,
[00:21:54] eh, therefore I don't know exactly what procedures eh they have to follow
[00:21:57] before validating that there are 74,
[00:22:01] eh, but the case is that now the latest news we have is
[00:22:04] that they are lowering eh the figure to 69, which is what we had
[00:22:08] had before and this has been happening since
[00:22:11] administration, which is easy, eh,
[00:22:14] no, but it is true that there is this discrepancy in figures that surprises you in a catastrophe of this kind,
[00:22:18] that there is no... a centralization of data, an
[00:22:22] official communication, not that everything keeps changing, I'm surprised by the
[00:22:25] emergency service, it's autonomous, it depends on Castilla La Mancha, but it's true that
[00:22:29] some injured have been transferred to Madrid and
[00:22:33] perhaps that already makes it so that there are several sources that can
[00:22:36] inform, but yes, you're right, this really should
[00:22:39] be well, and unfortunately, eh, it's not the
[00:22:43] first catastrophe we've encountered, I mean that unfortunately the country has recently had to face
[00:22:47] very complex situations that I think should be done all this. training on how crises are
[00:22:50] communicated because there are protocols because we know that disinformation, this discrepancy in
[00:22:54] figures, ends up having an impact, I mean, it's not innocent all this, I think
[00:22:57] that what the union representative said was also interesting when he said at
[00:23:01] one point, "It's just that, well, we are now analyzing a fragment, but all this
[00:23:05] is much more complex and takes time, no, so
[00:23:09] eh, listening also to Miguel, I think his name was,
[00:23:13] ehm, also a bit of an appeal to that, to
[00:23:17] a bit of a need for someone to say, "Okay, one... moment,
[00:23:20] let's stop the machines, we will give the information when it is totally verified, an
[00:23:24] investigation will be done, there is no need to keep constantly bringing out, because what happens?"
[00:23:28] we have become accustomed to the society of immediacy, has made the public also
[00:23:31] demand answers immediately, all this goes
[00:23:34] against being able to process what is happening to us, because all this is doing
[00:23:38] more harm than good to the victims themselves, to the immediate environment, to the political
[00:23:42] sphere, so we are all putting ourselves in a
[00:23:45] rush to want to know the information immediately, this is not new, I mean
[00:23:51] immediacy and we have become accustomed to devouring information, whatever
[00:23:54] it may be, without having the possibility of verifying it on many occasions
[00:23:58] 100% the society of immediacy aggravated this
[00:24:01] immediacy by the pre-electoral circumstance and
[00:24:05] of course then there are many people interested in selling us a certain version,
[00:24:08] of course we will go into that aspect in more depth later, but
[00:24:12] one of the key pieces of the Toledo accident is, as we also pointed
[00:24:16] out when starting to talk with Jordi Murtra, is the system of...
[00:24:20] main priority that is used on this high-speed line from Madrid to Seville that
[00:24:23] failed, it is not this LZB and precisely on the
[00:24:27] same line tests were being carried out to change it to a more
[00:24:30] updated one which is ERTMS.
[00:24:34] The general secretary of CMAF, Diego Martín, assured that it should have
[00:24:38] been replaced a long time ago by the train drivers'
[00:24:40] union, that the old system had been failing for
[00:24:44] a long time.
[00:24:50] nominal system called LZB should have been
[00:24:52] replaced a long time ago, it is the one that
[00:24:56] failed yesterday it has failed on repeated
[00:24:59] occasions on other
[00:25:02] find the explanation is why, having
[00:25:06] been awarded, having been put out to tender, why this delay in
[00:25:09] implementing the new
[00:25:11] systems.
[00:25:14] The president of Dirio warned about it a long
[00:25:16] time ago in the Senate.
[00:25:49] equally... usable because both have the same objective, which is
[00:25:53] to prevent two trains from colliding, if you agree, I'll explain how
[00:25:56] both systems work, let's start with the LZB, which is the system
[00:26:00] that has been used, the one that is on... the line from Madrid to
[00:26:04] Seville, eh, where the accident occurred, it is a German
[00:26:07] system and it was implemented in Spain in 1992, therefore it is a very
[00:26:11] old system, the system works through
[00:26:14] imaginary sections, the rule is very clear, in each
[00:26:18] section there can only be one train, eh, how does the
[00:26:22] system work? Well, what it does is it detects if each
[00:26:26] section is occupied if a train arrives from
[00:26:29] behind, then eh it cannot access it because... that section is occupied,
[00:26:33] it's that simple, how is it
[00:26:36] detected? Well, it's done through wiring along
[00:26:40] the entire line, which communicates constantly, it
[00:26:44] chats constantly with the train. What does it tell it? Well, it
[00:26:48] tells it each section that is occupied, it also calculates how
[00:26:51] far the train can go and at what speed it has
[00:26:55] to do it. All this information is also received by the
[00:26:59] his screen, therefore, if... "the system
[00:27:03] detects that a section, that the train is arriving
[00:27:06] at a section occupied by another train, it warns it and tells it: hey, you have to stop
[00:27:10] here, if the driver doesn't do it, there is no problem, nothing will happen
[00:27:14] because the train stops automatically, this is the
[00:27:17] system that failed yesterday in Toledo,
[00:27:21] but there is another system eh that exists in Spain which is
[00:27:24] ERTMS, which is already operating on several lines
[00:27:27] in Spain, including, for example, our own, the one that goes from
[00:27:31] Figueres to Madrid, we have..." with this system and the only difference there
[00:27:34] is with the old system, with the previous one, with the German one, is
[00:27:38] that instead of communicating through wiring, it
[00:27:41] does it by waves, by radio frequency
[00:27:44] eh is this one safer than the other, than the German one, than
[00:27:48] the old one? Well, an expert with whom we have spoken has told us no,
[00:27:52] that both are equally safe. really the two
[00:27:56] systems,
[00:28:00] with cable and the RTMs with... frequency, but they have
[00:28:04] exactly the same security, since they position in
[00:28:07] a very short space where each
[00:28:10] train is located, so the precision of occupation and the associated security of
[00:28:14] preventing one train from passing and another from circulating is
[00:28:17] identical, the only difference is that the RTMs
[00:28:20] allows us to connect with European trains, with
[00:28:24] any train from Europe, it's like improving the
[00:28:28] language of the operating system of security so that any train can
[00:28:32] circulate. for the infrastructure,
[00:28:35] we would say that they are similar systems, initially, they are
[00:28:38] similar systems, but what we also asked this
[00:28:42] expert in civil engineering
[00:28:44] is also whether it is normal for security systems to fail
[00:28:48] recurrently, I mean, if these systems are very vulnerable to a
[00:28:52] failure, and he told us this, it's
[00:28:54] very complicated not only for the LZB security system to fail, but also
[00:28:58] for the ASFA, which is the lateral
[00:29:01] signaling system, not to work correctly,
[00:29:05] which, although it is not as precise because it works with
[00:29:09] different interlockings or with different beacons along the track that are more
[00:29:12] spaced out in time, but it is very complicated, it is
[00:29:16] practically a probability level of
[00:29:19] 1 * 10 to the -6 * 10 to the -7 for
[00:29:22] this cause to occur, it is very
[00:29:25] complicated. We also asked him if the fact that they were
[00:29:29] precisely carrying out tests on the Madrid-Seville line to replace
[00:29:32] the old system with the new one could have caused the
[00:29:34] failure? these systems do not operate during commercial
[00:29:38] hours, they are usually tests that are carried out when there are no trains during commercial
[00:29:42] hours, nor any passenger trains especially, nor well in this
[00:29:45] case, freight trains cannot circulate there, so it is very rare
[00:29:49] that this circumstance could infer, furthermore, they are two
[00:29:52] systems that have two different technologies and I don't think it was
[00:29:56] the cause. In any case,
[00:29:59] what he assures is that the problem does not lie in whether it is actual.
[00:30:18] but it is even more complicated for the ASFA to stop working or for circulation to be
[00:30:20] allowed on occupied signals,
[00:30:24] it is very complicated for this problem to occur in this circumstance,
[00:30:28] so it is not that it is new, that the new one fails or that the
[00:30:31] mechanisms
[00:30:45] of
[00:30:49] safety that logically you don't know when you buy a train ticket,
[00:30:52] I don't know if now
[00:30:55] you who travel frequently by train, right?