TVCNEWS — broadcast
20260808 230000 UTC
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[00:00:04] All right, he was quick to attacking you with the arm structure, I quite
[00:00:08] understand, I said where were they, yeah, yeah, I, I, I quite understand where he
[00:00:12] was coming from, when he said, where waskon, when it happened in all your,
[00:00:16] but you were able to actually hold your argument with the fact
[00:00:20] that Amateku is
[00:00:21] a reflection of what we actually wants to happen when it
[00:00:24] in comes to local
[00:00:25] of policing, how do you expeciate with that? Okay, so in
[00:00:29] in Karno. there was a program i attended in Karno and some people
[00:00:32] came they call them the hish bar, they are not state police, but it's a
[00:00:36] template that has been created for something that
[00:00:39] in we of prevent crime, so
[00:00:40] that when the legal framework is properly done, they can actually
[00:00:44] maybe transform into it and they have better equipment to actually fight
[00:00:48] of crime. as we speak, the legality of state police
[00:00:52] cannot be debated because it is supported by every democracy in the
[00:00:56] world, especially the presidential system of government that we practice.
[00:01:00] but what people debate most
[00:01:02] of the time is oh governor we abuses this will happen
[00:01:05] but in the allocation um
[00:01:07] of the federal government there are constitutional um um
[00:01:11] allocation that needs to go each state for example if you are a
[00:01:15] state producing oil producing state there's a certain allocation so I
[00:01:18] believe it's part
[00:01:19] of the conversation now that there must be a certain percentage of what comes
[00:01:23] into state that
[00:01:24] of must be deployed into security when this becomes a law you
[00:01:28] will know that the issue of no funding or inadequate
[00:01:32] funding will naturally disappear and let me quickly add to you that
[00:01:36] the governors of our state
[00:01:37] of today have taken more money in the last three years than they've ever taken in the
[00:01:41] last 14 or 15 years, it means that most
[00:01:44] of the state government now have access to money and
[00:01:47] of most
[00:01:47] of them who
[00:01:48] of are of wise we have to reorder their priority beyond project the
[00:01:52] issue of security has become number one so we believe that once we continue to
[00:01:56] of push at the level that we are pushing
[00:01:58] of once conversations are going on no state governor sir, we want to stay in
[00:02:02] the government lodge and
[00:02:03] of we be comfortable that his people are being killed, most
[00:02:05] of the time they are powerless
[00:02:07] of because they do not have the backing
[00:02:08] of the law, you cannot deploy a moteku to go and with pump action
[00:02:12] to go and face somebody who is carrying an
[00:02:15] of AK47, these are some
[00:02:20] of of the things that these new laws are meant to to address and
[00:02:20] of once they are
[00:02:21] of addressed we will have a Nigeria where everybody
[00:02:24] can thank
[00:02:27] you before before before to him,
[00:02:31] it seeming like everything he's trying to say, you are
[00:02:34] stylishly pampering the governors with what he's trying to put out governors,
[00:02:38] that's what that's why he try, that's the the way he say the
[00:02:41] problem of the country, you are saying that yes, state police
[00:02:45] cannot do the job, but we are
[00:02:47] of saying it's time to put our governors on their toes now by making
[00:02:51] sure that now there's
[00:02:52] of a he said something said beyond projects how about to make
[00:02:56] security top priority
[00:02:58] meaning let's
[00:02:58] use security to start measuring the performance of our governors, thank
[00:03:02] you, he made instance of hisb, if you go
[00:03:05] of to now those guys, if they get you smok or or get you taking alcohol, you are
[00:03:09] finished, that's what you're talking about state policing that hisb
[00:03:12] go to, i was born at in the not, so now if you have
[00:03:16] society and security organ, local security
[00:03:19] organ like have you hisb
[00:03:22] know
[00:03:22] who like input religion into
[00:03:26] security, there's going to be a problem, because if you say i come to yourself i cannot drink be
[00:03:30] and
[00:03:30] you come to my stage you are taking beer that tells you that security has been defeated and he's talking
[00:03:34] about amoteko and the pump action security is not about guns so you know it's not
[00:03:38] about guns security is all
[00:03:39] of about being proactive how do you being how are you being proactive have some intelligence
[00:03:43] components in place have some
[00:03:45] of technological process in place - used as intelligence
[00:03:49] components will not
[00:03:51] of happen for any crime to occur there must be a surveillance and
[00:03:54] of for any crime to be executed these surveillance guys will go back and
[00:03:58] tell
[00:03:58] the people that hey this is school and clear come and
[00:04:01] operate in the area of intelligence, if they don't have
[00:04:05] a action, of don't of they have intelligence? if you have
[00:04:07] of intelligence, you able to go after the commission of crime, criminals been delayed,
[00:04:16] but you quite agree that the argument about all your state
[00:04:20] government, not prioritizing local government autonomy was also another
[00:04:24] argument that brought about the fact that this particular situation happened, because if you
[00:04:28] notice there was a time when the... "the local government autonomy law
[00:04:31] was passed, governor sh was very, very, very brutal about it,
[00:04:35] he said, look, he does not believe in local government autonomy, he said he
[00:04:39] believes more in the federal and the state, he was very emphatic about
[00:04:43] it, now there is an argument that if he had prioritized,
[00:04:47] prioritized local government autonomy, maybe it will have been very difficult for
[00:04:51] that raid to happen, how do you, how do you content with that? you see, that's why most
[00:04:54] times we try to blame the federal government, we have the local
[00:04:58] government, we have the state government." and we have the federal government, let's learn to share
[00:05:02] blames and not centralize our problem. has once said that he believe in the
[00:05:06] states and in the federal governmentts uh in the area of autonomy, he doesn't want
[00:05:10] the money to go to the local government, I don't the reason why. but for me, if you have these funds within the local
[00:05:14] government, now if you travel abroad for example, you see some guys riding on bicycles,
[00:05:18] you think they are r doing exercise, they are not doing exercise, they are going, they are getting informations, they
[00:05:22] are on surveillance duty, trying to observe who and who, and that's why sometimes when there's a
[00:05:25] crime or crime in progress, you see that the police are already there between the f minutes, why?
[00:05:29] because there is effective intelligence measures in place, if you are talking about state
[00:05:33] policing system, we have not even equipped our federal policing system, we left them a
[00:05:37] very bad situation, i want to create new situation that will also
[00:05:41] be a very bad like to our people, so for me, I tell you that,
[00:05:45] it's just like having having a
[00:05:49] wife and you give your wife h, 10000 or 5000 every month to prepare
[00:05:53] very good soup for you, and you are expecting how to put okporoko every time, okporoko fish, if
[00:05:57] there's no okoroko fish there eat it, because if you give her good money you
[00:06:00] get oporoco fish, if you don't give her good money you noroko fish, so that is the
[00:06:04] problem we have in the country, our police are not well paid, they are not well taking care of, and
[00:06:08] you want them to put in their best, that is why crime has been excelling because "the
[00:06:12] government has abused and failed the policy system, thank
[00:06:15] you, he has made valid point, i
[00:06:19] was going to tell you that if you are, if you are here conversing for state
[00:06:23] police, what happens to the central police system, how would they
[00:06:27] feel now that you're actually trying to give the new baby some attention, because
[00:06:31] of course there's there's already whispers that - this state police that is coming, they
[00:06:35] seem to have all the structures in place to actually make it work, what
[00:06:38] if they now start feeling left out of this?" "
[00:06:42] picture, is there not going to be disharmony? would would would that bitterness not
[00:06:46] further spread and probably break down this particular architecture that we
[00:06:50] are trying to set up? okay, so I will not make this contribution by um looking at
[00:06:54] the opinion of people on the street, I will make this um
[00:06:58] conversation around the mindset the the present inspector general
[00:07:02] of police, he had said that this is the first time that the federal government will
[00:07:06] invite them to have a proper input in the formulation the state
[00:07:09] police, what does that tell you? it tells you that... this the current federal
[00:07:13] police is boding and they also want to be help because
[00:07:17] efficiency cannot be achieved when you are bording when you are stress and you
[00:07:21] are bnt out so what i tells you is that the current
[00:07:24] federal police is also taking advantage the creation of
[00:07:28] state police to show that they are efficient that they are effective and one
[00:07:32] the one the components the paper if you have seen it is that all policeman
[00:07:36] in Nigeria must wear body camera immediately
[00:07:39] after creation of state police they say at the state
[00:07:43] level, but at the federal level, it means that the federal
[00:07:46] government has actually abandoned the Nigerian police to this point, but
[00:07:50] this insecurity has become a wakeup call and we can see the direction
[00:07:54] that is going, beyond changing what they have, they want state to
[00:07:58] now have impul and like I've said repeatedly, crimes
[00:08:02] are local and the only way to cure crime is
[00:08:06] to approach local way to
[00:09:13] All right, security affects every Nigerian, so today the conversation
[00:09:17] belongs to you, from students to business owners to parents, to retired security
[00:09:20] personnel, our audience shares your questions, concerns and
[00:09:23] experiences right here on the show. First, who's going first?
[00:09:36] Dr. Dixen, all right, so
[00:09:38] you you're saying that state police is not the solution to the problem.
[00:09:42] so I'm asking what is the solution if
[00:09:46] state police will not totally curb the
[00:09:49] issue of insecurity? let me use the word,
[00:09:53] okay? so what is the real approach to mitigate this
[00:09:57] current problem? security insecurity is on the high rise, coming down
[00:10:01] here, i mean the minds of people were high, you must get
[00:10:05] their safety, so people cannot even come because already afraid, so what can be done
[00:10:15] very short
[00:10:17] just answer of time, fantastic question you've asked and i want to let you know the
[00:10:19] that major problem
[00:10:21] that is nigeria, not
[00:10:22] if you're talking about uh criminals issues
[00:10:26] or crime is not the problem be devil nigeria, what
[00:10:28] we are looking at is
[00:10:29] that what is what what led to the causes of crime? i'm a criminologist and we what
[00:10:33] we do is that we try to know the how, why you understand? i'm not interested in who
[00:10:37] commit crime, i want to know why, the why? so if we start looking at the
[00:10:41] why Nigerians this way, the why people are committed crime, why
[00:10:44] why is kidnapping on the high rice, they will begin to address it, bringing
[00:10:48] state policy is just like addressing the situation the Nigerian state from the surface, but
[00:10:52] we need to go
[00:10:53] to the causative factors and look at. economic situation, because I cannot just
[00:10:57] pull out my my come on the street and go after go and
[00:11:01] start committing crime or whatever the case may be, so state policing is not the solution,
[00:11:05] it could mitigate desp of criminal situation, but what happened to
[00:11:09] kidnapping, what happened to bandy, what happened to terrorism, what happened to
[00:11:12] unemployment, because most these criminals what they do, they capitalize on the vulnerable
[00:11:16] state of nigerians and employ them as terrorist as fighters, so if you have
[00:11:20] very good employment system in place, terrorists will lack fighters, they also like
[00:11:24] lack uh people to come on
[00:11:25] board
[00:11:43] um my my question is directed to
[00:11:46] doctorun mr dotun
[00:11:49] so you mentioned um two billion nara the whole time
[00:11:53] and um my question is that how um with the law
[00:11:57] backup allocations for the state police? okay,
[00:12:01] okay, fantastic question. um, presently, there are resources
[00:12:05] that are backed by law, for for instance, in my state, inondo
[00:12:09] state, there's a 14% allocation from whatever comes from
[00:12:13] oil that is accruable to an agency of government called
[00:12:16] the osopad deck, so they use this 40% to develop the
[00:12:20] mandate area, which is the oil producing areas the state.
[00:12:24] now, as this conversation is going on, it will also be
[00:12:28] part the um law that will be passed that certain
[00:12:31] percentage the allocation that will come each state must be
[00:12:35] spent on security, so when you have one
[00:12:39] one for example and the say 0.2% of that onear
[00:12:43] must go to to security, you don't use it to pay salary, you just put
[00:12:47] the entire money into security, by so doing you discover that the
[00:12:51] problem of lack of funding that my opponent talked about or people i've
[00:12:55] continued to talk about we actually
[00:13:05] conversation, my question is directed to Dr. Dickson, he just
[00:13:08] alluded to the fact that we have about 350 police policing
[00:13:12] 220 million as a security expert we, i
[00:13:16] understand that you mention kinetic approach that people live in squalor despudency
[00:13:20] and we need to address this holistically, but don't you think that
[00:13:24] 250? thousand police cannot police
[00:13:27] 220 million effectively, he mentioned
[00:13:31] amoteku, are you remember that this people are hardock, so if probably have been integrated
[00:13:35] in the system within a better framework, don't you think we going to have better
[00:13:39] or insane society?
[00:13:46] security is not about numbers, the population of Israel today is 9
[00:13:49] million, almost about three times of
[00:13:53] Lagos, Lagos is about 20. million up Israel is 9 million fighting a
[00:13:57] country of 90 million Iran and also engaging other
[00:14:01] countries that tells you that security is not about numbers, security is made up the
[00:14:05] people, that is the uni, the technology and
[00:14:09] processes, so if you are thinking about the people, you are not addressing security
[00:14:12] issues, five people, I'm tell you five people can have
[00:14:16] effective technology, you deploy them in hostile environment, carry out
[00:14:20] enemy intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance
[00:14:23] mission and send the information. back to the uh command control center through
[00:14:27] that uh uh technology you be able to project reasonable security
[00:14:31] force to go and eliminate these guys so for me is not about number is all about technology and also
[00:14:35] all about tactics so for us to get it right let's see how we can start
[00:14:38] establishing drone units nigerian police do they have drone division they don't have drone
[00:14:42] division the
[00:14:43] negerian army have drone battalion as at now i don't think they have drone battalions so what we should
[00:14:47] looking at is that let's start looking at how we equip them it's all about capability and
[00:14:51] capacity not about
[00:15:06] is to who now, nobody, just anybody, general, anybody can answer is
[00:15:10] a general question, so I'm feeling like, okay, are we not
[00:15:13] focusing on who is controlling the policing system rather
[00:15:17] than focusing on and asking questions
[00:15:20] about why our policing, our security
[00:15:24] institute. why are they not adequately funded
[00:15:28] and why they are not competent enough and accountability?
[00:15:32] okay, why should we questioning that rather than focusing on
[00:15:35] who is policing? the um the police
[00:15:42] the issue of directive is
[00:15:45] necessary for the for the process of direction.
[00:15:49] if you do not know who is giving directive, direction may be laggy, and
[00:15:53] that's why somebody cannot sit for example as the chief security officer of a
[00:15:57] state and it doesn't have control over who is the police
[00:16:01] or the police structure in the state, so that's not how you look at it, we still fall
[00:16:05] back to who controls what in my community. community
[00:16:08] everybody def to the traditional rulers today in my community
[00:16:12] and it's very easy for him to make some certain directive that leads to communal
[00:16:16] direction, but a situation where he cannot do that, maybe he's thinking,
[00:16:20] if i say this, the other person is going to say another thing because they do not belong
[00:16:24] to the same political party or whatever you have it, so i think we should not just
[00:16:27] damplay the issue of um um
[00:16:30] directive because who gives directive also matter in the race of
[00:16:34] life,
[00:16:46] to mr. dotton, okay, earlier you said that we have to begin something to
[00:16:50] arrive at somewhere, so my question is, as Nigerians today,
[00:16:54] are we ready for states policing?
[00:17:00] as nigerian, so the concept the concept of
[00:17:03] leadership is actually to take people to
[00:17:06] better place. even where when they don't want to go there, so it is the
[00:17:10] understanding of leadership or at the moment that state
[00:17:14] policing will cure some the problems that we have, people are
[00:17:17] convinced by result, not by process, when this is
[00:17:21] started and people can see that the level of insecurity in
[00:17:25] their communities have actually reduced, you will see them line
[00:17:28] up behind this ey,
[00:17:53] um um goal of any government is a protection of
[00:17:57] life and property, and from the argument of both
[00:18:00] sides, i have like come to kind of a
[00:18:04] conclusion that the issue now is not, what worked
[00:18:08] best, but um, the effectiveness and the
[00:18:11] application example, um, I'm seeing it from the lens of having
[00:18:15] state police we call some problems, but initiate another one,
[00:18:19] and for what you said about the number of police we
[00:18:23] have to the number of people, and half them are um pies
[00:18:27] for the big people, now if you bring that to the states,
[00:18:30] while they have the emotive um aspiration to actually
[00:18:34] protect their community, then there's this familiarity that comes. with
[00:18:38] it that this is my brother that is policing in this state, i
[00:18:42] can call him to mess up someone or to do something and we
[00:18:45] have this bastardized um identity in
[00:18:49] Nigeria where we tend to abuse power no matter how
[00:18:53] little okay is to our society so that is just my
[00:19:16] so does want to contribute that before creating the states
[00:19:20] police we also have to reform the existing nigeria police force
[00:19:23] because if not we're also creating the same mistake that we did the Nigerian police
[00:19:27] force because right now one most the issues that are facing for
[00:19:30] insecurity is coming from the Nigerian police force for
[00:19:34] example lack of proper funding briberry corruption. so what is
[00:19:38] ass that if we create this state police we still make the same mistake
[00:19:41] or we have the same problem so she firstly reform the Nigeria police
[00:19:44] force
[00:19:59] we're going to be using to create the state police right should
[00:20:03] be used to um how will I put it elevate
[00:20:07] the ones we have the reason why we can find
[00:20:10] these same police officers arresting innocent people because it
[00:20:14] happens in my in my area where i live i'm not going to mention it but in the area where
[00:20:18] i live my younger brother cannot come outside around 10
[00:20:22] o'clock my mom sells at the bus stop and we don't close until
[00:20:25] 11 so sometimes she tells him to stay at home not to
[00:20:29] help her to park because when he's coming out you
[00:20:33] just see people on m maybe they are wearing a black shirt in
[00:20:37] inside they are coming to haras boys and just pick them up saying why are you
[00:20:41] outside by this time? so i feel like the money they are going to use to
[00:20:45] fund those state police should be used to i
[00:20:49] don't know. Maybe because they they lack, maybe their salary
[00:20:53] is small or maybe that's the reason why they come outside to harass people, so I
[00:20:57] feel like that money should not be used to create more problems for us,
[00:21:01] because to be honest, it is not the solution to our
[00:21:08] let me, let me, let me quickly put this out there, you see any police who behaves like that, is
[00:21:11] he responsible, the DPO who actually heads that division uh
[00:21:15] police station that brings those guys to come and do that rubbish is also very irresponsible.
[00:21:20] because if the DPO was accountable, his voice would not go out harassing people for what is
[00:21:24] wrong in coming out at 10 10 o'clock, that's that's actually
[00:21:28] irresponsibility on the part the offices there, we cannot generalize people's
[00:21:31] bad character and make it everybody's uh situation, that's
[00:21:35] a
[00:23:06] ladies and gentlemen, we've had this wonderful conversation and we've
[00:23:09] agreed that the essence of government is to actually protect life and
[00:23:13] property, and if the current police structure that we have in Nigeria is not
[00:23:17] doing that, leaving communities vulnerable, conversation should
[00:23:20] not just be about improving the existing police force, it should
[00:23:24] be about creating state police that we make access
[00:23:28] possible for you and I, that will make people confident to release information
[00:23:32] to them, that will make it possible for state government to have input
[00:23:36] in in security funding, and above all to
[00:23:40] have a chief security officer the state, the governor
[00:23:44] have direct control over the structure of security
[00:24:17] I believe that we'll all make it, but going to the last uh... speaker uh, you talk
[00:24:21] about police people embarrassing some people, that is why we are talking about why, why did they do
[00:24:24] that? now for me, i would advise the government, every person out there, take very good
[00:24:28] care of your wife, the government have not been taking good care of h security agents, i see the
[00:24:32] wifes, i see the nigerian police, nigerian military as the wife the government,
[00:24:36] but over the years they are on, they are not well paid, if you go to ek can there's no
[00:24:40] electricity, these are the guys that have put their life on the line to for you and to leave, some
[00:24:44] them have died in action, yet their wives are living in darkness, go to airforce base
[00:24:48] where we have our fighter pilots. money they wake up from darkness and go to start
[00:24:52] bomby enemy area. government should endeavor to take care the present
[00:24:55] security forces, the Nigerian police. are one the best people on one the best policing
[00:24:59] system we have in
[00:25:00] this country. the only problem is that they are underfunded. secondly, if you go to most police station,
[00:25:04] you see them using their own diesel, their own fuel. where do you wanted to get that money from?
[00:25:08] that's why when you say bail is free, in their own part they say bail is not free. i
[00:25:12] want
[00:25:12] to take buy foil. so government, see your security agent and your
[00:25:16] security officers as the necessary. opponent
[00:25:20] for you to take care of because without the police, without the military will be
[00:25:59] today we have heard two competing visions for Nigeria
[00:26:02] future,
[00:26:03] one argues that stronger institutions, not new police commands will deliver last in
[00:26:06] security, the other belies policy must move closer to the people
[00:26:10] if communities are to reclaim their peace. perhaps the real question is not
[00:26:14] simply whether Nigeria should have state police, but whether every level of
[00:26:18] government is prepared to accept greater responsibility for protecting
[00:26:22] lives, can security be centralized in nation as vast and diverse as
[00:26:26] ours, can descentralization strengthen accountability without
[00:26:29] inviting abuse and what kind of policing doesn't area of
[00:26:33] tomorrow truly need, the conversation doesn't end here, join us online using the
[00:26:37] hashtag #big issue ontvc, watch and share this
[00:27:21] next time, stay informed, stay engaged and remember every great democracy
[00:27:25] grows stronger when the difficult conversations are not avoided, but
[00:27:29] confronted. I am
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[00:29:05] and empowers and then the brave
[00:29:08] reporters who dare it all stand in the
[00:29:12] rain, the heat, the tension to
[00:29:16] bring live, accurate coverage to Nigerians
[00:29:19] all year round. The anchors, who
[00:29:23] ask the hard questions, interrogate the issues
[00:29:26] and keep the nation informed with
[00:29:30] courage and balance. Yes, it takes a
[00:29:34] lot, but here at tv seniors, we
[00:29:38] are always ready to give our best, telling the Nigerian story
[00:29:42] from the Nigerian perspective. TBC News, best TV
[00:29:46] news channel Nigeria Broadcasting awards and
[00:29:50] the best television station Nigeria Media Merit
[00:29:53] Award. TBC news,
[00:29:57] first with Breaking news.
[00:30:01] Breaking news is not. just about the headlines, it is the riple effects the
[00:30:05] headlines.
[00:30:06] it is the ability to connect the dots of anger, grief, pain,
[00:30:10] repression, hope and triumph. it is staying on the story
[00:30:13] till attention is gotten and action is taken. when we say at
[00:30:17] tvc news, we are first with breaking news.
[00:30:20] it is not just a position, it is a
[00:30:23] philosophy, a principle and a culture. tvc
[00:30:27] news, first with breaking
[00:30:29] news. at
[00:30:33] news, wherever the big news stories happening, we get up
[00:30:36] to break it. TVs news, first with break