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20261012 024100 UTC
943 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] this is the environment that highly values so-called
[00:00:03] freedom on the internet, and listen, you can also see what this confederate environment actually
[00:00:07] publishes on the internet. We recently had Mirancena, who was going after
[00:00:11] policewomen. We have Berkowicz, who offended
[00:00:14] our colleague. There's such an acceptance
[00:00:17] of simply saying brutally
[00:00:21] and sometimes inhumanly
[00:00:25] about some. I believe it's more than acceptance, that
[00:00:29] anything is allowed. It's even putting them on a pedestal, and
[00:00:32] that's what the right wing really
[00:00:37] who voted for bases itself on. All the things that
[00:00:40] seem vile, evil, and negative from my perspective
[00:00:44] become cool to them. Super, let's publish it,
[00:00:48] let's show it. Listen, if today
[00:00:51] the campus, do you remember his I see that Mr. Pit Heckset informs,
[00:00:53] here we have Mr. Heckset's entry, or rather an entry about Mr. Heckset, the Pentagon.
[00:00:57] The perpetrator of the Fort Hood massacre is to be executed. There will be a public
[00:01:00] live broadcast. We will ensure
[00:01:02] such an ideological front, because that people can watch it, announced the Secretary of Defense, no longer of defense, but
[00:01:06] of war, Pit Heckset. This is something
[00:01:10] incredible to me. What does that mean? Are we creating games, such
[00:01:13] games? Is this supposed to make
[00:01:16] Poland people who commit massacres, or are thinking about committing massacres, withdraw when they see that this person is
[00:01:22] is great, executed? On the contrary, we need to really talk to people
[00:01:26] frying pan from a shop, he can't afford who are specialists, who understand this, to see that for
[00:01:29] some young person who sees no meaning in their life, this
[00:01:33] could be, "Wow, the whole world will watch me, they'll show me being
[00:01:37] executed, darn, I'll be famous, I'll be great, I'll be wonderful." This
[00:01:41] will be his moment of glory. This is this stupidity, this is the
[00:01:44] stupidity, the kind of freedom that the Confederation, one or the other,
[00:01:47] the Brownists, or or Mr. President, are striving for. This is that
[00:01:50] freedom. In my opinion, this problem is even deeper, because we are talking about
[00:01:54] young people who grew up in a slightly different world than we
[00:01:57] did. They grew up in an absolutely
[00:01:59] what digital world. My
[00:02:02] entered the school had a camera on his 13-year-old daughter has known about phones, about the internet, really since
[00:02:06] the beginning of her life. It's up to us whether we dose them,
[00:02:09] control, control, explain, because you can't cut off
[00:02:12] this internet in any way, you can't cut off this virtual world.
[00:02:16] We can teach them to live with it, teach them to distinguish fake
[00:02:19] information, misinformation, to check, not to succumb to
[00:02:23] emotions. But there is certainly a large group of young people for whom this
[00:02:26] virtual world, these internet challenges... internet games, in
[00:02:30] which it's easy to shoot, to kill. I have such
[00:02:34] a feeling, wait, let me just finish, I have a feeling that certain things
[00:02:38] have become dehumanized in this network. Of course, these
[00:02:41] young people do not realize, those who enter these schools with
[00:02:44] knives, that there is a tragedy, that this is a
[00:02:47] human, that this is some life, that they treat it
[00:02:51] as a source of fame, glory, "I will be
[00:02:55] famous," like in a computer game.
[00:02:58] They stop perceiving.
[00:03:06] nice, until he overdid it, and I might be wrong, but do you know why I think this is happening? Because these young people seem, as you said, about these
[00:03:10] games, about this life in a virtual world, that they think
[00:03:14] they'll go to sleep, wake up in the morning, and the world will be as it was, right,
[00:03:18] that it was, you know, you turn it on again
[00:03:21] and you're somewhere there. This is absolutely some total work from
[00:03:25] scratch, but we won't do this work until there's a possibility of
[00:03:29] control. Bad content, criminal content, because what are we talking about in this
[00:03:33] law? I am also absolutely for freedom of speech. I have nothing
[00:03:36] against someone expressing political views that I personally
[00:03:40] absolutely disagree with, but here we are talking about the office of electronic
[00:03:43] communication, with court approval, that is important, having
[00:03:46] the ability to block content inciting suicide,
[00:03:50] murder, pornographic
[00:03:53] crimes. It seemed like this was natural and normal, but
[00:03:57] it turns out it's not, that for many environments, for
[00:04:00] some political environments, not only political, it is
[00:04:03] even a threat, that they just don't want it, no, it shouldn't be like that, but
[00:04:07] exactly, but let's say why, because politics is made on this, because
[00:04:10] politics is made on this, because I
[00:04:14] remind you, this is the second environment, ladies and gentlemen, that very strongly advocated
[00:04:17] for that January veto, it was the Ordo Juris environment. I
[00:04:21] will just remind you that when the famous murder on Nowy
[00:04:24] Świat occurred, one of the people who claimed that the murder
[00:04:28] was committed by a Ukrainian person, people who never apologized
[00:04:32] for that fake news, was precisely the head of Ordo Juris, Mr. Kwaśniewski, he never
[00:04:36] retracted those words. That means that in the
[00:04:39] network you can say a lot, or probably everything
[00:04:42] today, is needed
[00:04:45] is ready, by politicians so that they can gain reach, incite, so that
[00:04:48] they can incite against each other, so that they can promote themselves on the internet, because
[00:04:51] they know that these are emotional contents, these are
[00:04:54] is ready. contents that the algorithm will forward, that it will show to the largest number of people. That's why they
[00:04:58] do it, it's simple.
[00:05:05] He does it for a reason, they all do it to make
[00:05:09] people talk about them, to evoke emotions, to do anything. Yes, according to
[00:05:13] that rule, but Kuba, what you are saying
[00:05:16] is confirmed by what happened yesterday. I was watching yesterday
[00:05:20] the antenna and an attempt to talk to our reporter who was
[00:05:24] there in that town and approached one of the gentlemen
[00:05:27] who was there on the street, "Let's go, let's ask, are you from here?" "Yes, I am from here,"
[00:05:31] and the first question, and there was another question, "Is it safe here?"
[00:05:35] "You know, so many Ukrainians have arrived,"
[00:05:38] and where did he get that from, tell me, where did he get it from, did he investigate, did he count the people,
[00:05:42] but you know, but in this case, look at what we are constantly
[00:05:46] talking about, what happened, what really changed in the mentality
[00:05:49] of Poles, in the minds of Poles, after they started inciting against Ukrainians
[00:05:53] in Poland, that when some tragedy occurs, in one,
[00:05:56] two, three, four, that we are talking about these days, where
[00:06:00] we have these arrests of kids, no Ukrainian name was ever mentioned,
[00:06:04] no Ukrainian name, but immediately
[00:06:07] he did it, maybe, but it's Ukrainians, because they
[00:06:11] are here, it's because of them, no... not because of them, it's because of you, because of your
[00:06:14] environment, because of these people who incite and because of you, who
[00:06:18] incite further, saying such words, that these Ukrainians are in this city,
[00:06:22] this causes these young people to become even
[00:06:25] more radicalized, and as you said, such a Berkowicz does
[00:06:29] it for a reason, this guy should be in jail, he's
[00:06:32] a common thief, let's not fool ourselves, let's not say, let's not use
[00:06:35] nuances, the guy stole a
[00:06:39] a frying pan, a member of parliament, a member of parliament, this is simply.
[00:06:42] He's a jerk and let him smell the bars from the other side, not, darn it,
[00:06:46] he'll sit in parliament and insult others, that's how it should be done,
[00:06:50] that's freedom in my opinion. Yesterday
[00:06:53] Jarosław Kaczyński's post also appeared, I don't know if
[00:06:56] you saw it, that
[00:06:59] such an accusation arose there, that Donald Tusk's government does not control
[00:07:02] the services, because all these internet challenges come from
[00:07:05] Russian internet accounts, to which Marcin Kierwiński of course
[00:07:09] responded in a sharp way, but the president's narrative.
[00:07:13] and it is such that
[00:07:15] the president's chancellery accuses the government of using the tragedy
[00:07:19] to gain capital and that is why it introduced this law in this
[00:07:22] urgent procedure to the Sejm.
[00:07:26] Let's listen to Zbigniew
[00:07:28] Bogucki,
[00:07:34] and such are the facts, I don't know what you were waiting for, whether for consent, or
[00:07:38] for notification, I don't know what for, but it's not the president's
[00:07:41] fault. You should answer today from this podium
[00:07:44] why it took 9 months after the president's veto.
[00:07:48] This law differs little from the one that
[00:07:52] was vetoed,
[00:07:55] and I think it's not an answer for
[00:07:58] me, but for those who are today worried about the safety of their
[00:08:01] children, so Mr. Prime Minister Gawkowski,
[00:08:05] that you will speak and say what you were doing for
[00:08:08] 9 long months to present a very similar law, trying to link the president
[00:08:12] with
[00:08:20] this case, he spoke about online
[00:08:23] hate, he spoke about the need to stop all these
[00:08:27] undesirable contents, yes, we need to stop them, but we also
[00:08:30] need to preserve this issue, which is the foundation of democracy, namely
[00:08:34] freedom of speech, and this, Mr. Prime Minister, can
[00:08:36] be combined,
[00:08:39] the president's desertion... deserted,
[00:08:52] when Polish children needed help,
[00:08:57] he turned his
[00:08:58] back on them,
[00:09:04] and today the entire chancellery is
[00:09:07] ashamed of this, and that's why you came here to lie, to try
[00:09:09] to cheat.
[00:09:12] In the presidential palace, cheating, you have it in your
[00:09:15] blood, you cheated on matters
[00:09:18] concerning everything that happened with
[00:09:21] cryptocurrencies, you cheat on internet
[00:09:25] security, you are simply cheaters
[00:09:28] who try to avoid responsibility at all costs, shame
[00:09:32] on you.
[00:09:39] When we talk about it, when we look at what happened in the Sejm and Mr.
[00:09:42] Bogucki was there, it's perhaps worth showing that one internet user ventured
[00:09:46] to check the headlines of the so-called
[00:09:49] Republic TV: Tusk's and Nowacka's school, planetary diet instead of
[00:09:52] security, Nowacka's leftist education in schools instead of religion and values, Tusk
[00:09:56] instead of child psychiatry finances government propaganda, a series of attacks on
[00:10:00] centenarian knife-wielders in schools, Tusk instead of psychiatry, and so on and so forth, Tusk,
[00:10:04] Tusk, Tusk, Tusk, we show what is happening in Tusk's state, we need support,
[00:10:07] tragedy in school as a pretext for Tusk to introduce
[00:10:10] censorship, ladies and gentlemen. This
[00:10:14] pseudo-television itself is
[00:10:17] simply a den of hatred, inciting people against each other,
[00:10:21] instead of focusing on what to do to keep children safe.
[00:10:25] It says it's Tusk's fault, it's always Tusk's fault, this fault, Tusk's
[00:10:28] fault has been famous for years, only this,
[00:10:32] excuse me, it doesn't work, precisely because
[00:10:35] of this type of action, because of these types of environments that
[00:10:38] allow terrible things to happen on the internet and our children to perceive
[00:10:42] them as something beautiful, wonderful and
[00:10:45] good, even though they are negative, then we have what
[00:10:49] we have, what happened in these towns should give
[00:10:53] everyone a cold splash of water.
[00:10:56] on those heated political heads, to say, let's stop, this
[00:10:59] is about the good of our children, this is about the good of our homeland, this is about
[00:11:03] preventing such tragedies, but it seems not, it seems
[00:11:07] that Mr. Bogucki is still going down the same path, that Mr. President is still going down the
[00:11:10] same path and they will, probably,
[00:11:13] this law will be vetoed by Mr. President again, that's my guess, I don't
[00:11:17] know if you know how many requests the Ministry of
[00:11:21] Digitization sent to social
[00:11:24] digital platforms? Requests to block certain criminal,
[00:11:27] hateful content, which
[00:11:30] could be blocked by the UK if the law actually came
[00:11:34] into force, 40,000 requests, of which only
[00:11:37] 12% were accepted and
[00:11:40] actually executed, this is the
[00:11:43] scale of the problem we are facing. We have Rafał Brzozka,
[00:11:47] who, as we know, started a battle, declared
[00:11:50] war on Meta, it's about content that, for example,
[00:11:53] killed his wife, yes, about blocking
[00:11:56] fake news, and
[00:11:59] such content is not blocked automatically, untrue, false,
[00:12:03] hateful, harmful, there should be some mechanism
[00:12:07] that would somehow stop this wave of such
[00:12:10] lies and such internet poison that
[00:12:14] we have on the internet, and I would just add that the law,
[00:12:18] for example, in this particular case that happened yesterday
[00:12:22] at this school, could have worked, because this 15-year-old who
[00:12:27] helmet, he could have wanted to stream
[00:12:30] and broadcast online what he was doing, it could
[00:12:34] have been blocked if such a law was in force.
[00:12:38] I would add one more thing, because we will talk a lot about health today, ladies
[00:12:41] and gentlemen, that we must also be able
[00:12:45] to teach our children how to deal with these emotions, and
[00:12:49] such was also the intention of the again
[00:12:53] vetoed,
[00:12:55] presented in a very bad light
[00:12:57] law
[00:13:00] on education
[00:13:02] in schools, that is, this whole health and education package that
[00:13:06] was supposed to be introduced into Polish schools, was also supposed to talk about this, it was
[00:13:10] supposed to talk about how to deal with emotions, how to
[00:13:13] channel them, it was supposed to be such a psychological care
[00:13:16] for our children. Who protested these provisions the most,
[00:13:19] again the right wing,
[00:13:23] why for the same reason? This is exactly what you quoted from those
[00:13:26] headlines, that everywhere where
[00:13:29] we start talking about the well-being of our children, where we start talking
[00:13:33] about their mental well-being, about how we start
[00:13:36] wanting to teach them how to care for it, the right wing claims that we are
[00:13:39] dealing with leftist ideology, there freedom of speech, leftist
[00:13:42] ideology, teaching about mental health, leftist ideology and so
[00:13:46] on and so forth, we must start opposing this, in my opinion, much more
[00:13:50] radically, because we see what this leads to, it really
[00:13:53] directly leads to what we see in Polish
[00:13:56] schools. The right wing always takes one
[00:13:59] aspect from such projects, presents it as evil,
[00:14:03] like sexuality. By the way, the right wing,
[00:14:06] sexuality, please, maybe they shouldn't I don't see anything wrong with teaching about human
[00:14:10] sexuality, this is absolutely biology and the most normal thing, yes, yes,
[00:14:14] I know, I know what your opinion is, that you don't consider it something wrong, I'm just saying that
[00:14:17] I don't understand and I will protest against saying that teaching about human
[00:14:21] sexuality is something wrong, it's science, it's biology, so
[00:14:27] really that's it. Let's see
[00:14:30] what the president's decision will be this time, whether there will be a change of decision as in the case
[00:14:34] of the tax on oil concerns,
[00:14:37] or perhaps there will be another veto, as in January? I bet
[00:14:40] on a veto, in my
[00:14:43] opinion, just like in the case of fuels, it all depends on what the social
[00:14:47] response will be, that is, what the social pressure on
[00:14:50] the president will be, it is clear that the social pressure in the case of fuels, those eight
[00:14:54] percentage points, which... let's give it a chance, Mr. President will ride his horse for a while,
[00:14:57] I'm not even sure if he won't
[00:15:01] sign it, although wanting to introduce some amendments, there was an amendment yesterday
[00:15:04] from Law and Justice and Poland 2050 about
[00:15:08] such urgent blocking, so
[00:15:11] we'll see, but this is not the only law that the Sejm passed yesterday,
[00:15:15] there will also be a ban on alcohol sales throughout
[00:15:18] Poland, not only in selected municipalities, because as we remember, now such a ban was in force in
[00:15:22] Krakow, Tarnów, Gdańsk, Wrocław. In Warsaw
[00:15:25] now there will be prohibition throughout Poland from 10 PM to 6 AM
[00:15:29] with the possibility of extension in some municipalities, and of course a ban on alcohol
[00:15:33] advertising, this is a draft law, a law that was
[00:15:36] dropped 2 weeks ago, because it was a bone of contention in the
[00:15:39] coalition, precisely between the Left and the PSL, but they
[00:15:42] agreed, they agreed, this is a very interesting example, ladies
[00:15:46] and gentlemen, of how in opposition it is still possible to agree on a few other such cases in the
[00:15:49] coalition, how it is possible to agree, we will talk about another such
[00:15:52] example. I'm not afraid to say such words, that this is truly
[00:15:55] a breakthrough law when it comes to Poland,
[00:15:59] when it comes to what is happening in Poland, among the most important provisions:
[00:16:02] night prohibition from 10 PM to 6 AM, which
[00:16:05] Ania mentioned, a ban on advertising.
[00:16:08] alcohol, including
[00:16:09] non-alcoholic beer, for example, significant
[00:16:13] restrictions on advertising, but also significant restrictions on alcohol sales,
[00:16:17] meaning the fees for selling alcohol have increased, and those
[00:16:21] famous 12 plus 12 promotions will end, you pay for
[00:16:24] 12 items, you get 12, 12
[00:16:27] free, there will be a high penalty of up to one million zlotys for breaking this ban,
[00:16:31] exactly, exactly that.
[00:16:33] A total of 37 amendments passed yesterday, so...
[00:16:38] And some of these amendments were proposals submitted by PSL and Poland
[00:16:40] 2050, so they managed to agree, it
[00:16:44] was about the interests, let's say, of smaller industries, small
[00:16:47] producers, wine producers or domestic
[00:16:50] beer,
[00:16:53] yes, yes, yes, in principle, when I spoke with PSL politicians this week in
[00:16:57] the Sejm, they said, "It's not that we are against
[00:17:00] restrictions, we are very much for them, but let's not throw the baby out with the
[00:17:04] bathwater." In fact, some of these provisions concerning... even online
[00:17:08] sales, which some of these small producers actually rely on, right, because these
[00:17:11] are not large chains, they often do not create such
[00:17:14] a volume of alcohol that would even make it to these shelves in large supermarkets. This is a big
[00:17:18] PSL amendment that passed, because initially the Ministry of Health
[00:17:21] blocked and protested against this amendment, so they really
[00:17:25] managed to convince them.
[00:17:27] So this is really, this is truly a big thing, and it seems to me that it is also
[00:17:31] precisely such an element, actually, of all this that we are talking about
[00:17:35] today, right? That is, taking care... of us as Poles,
[00:17:38] looking at it in such a holistic way, because actually the
[00:17:42] experiences from those cities that you mentioned show, truly,
[00:17:45] 10 PM to 6 AM
[00:17:47] restrictions,
[00:17:51] it's calmer in emergency rooms. I watched
[00:17:54] yesterday, the day before yesterday, a fragment of the
[00:17:58] health committee, dedicated to this law, specialists say directly, much fewer
[00:18:02] hospitalizations in wards for
[00:18:05] alcoholics, meaning...
[00:18:38] I pull up, I refuel, not to mention that everyone gets a hot dog and
[00:18:41] that's the drama, that you can't pay, but let's leave that aside. However, it's about
[00:18:45] the fact that sometimes it happened that in front of me stood a gentleman who was only buying
[00:18:48] alcohol, only and exclusively. He didn't come here for fuel, he didn't
[00:18:52] come for anything else, he just treats these gas stations as a point, some shop,
[00:18:56] where, where a liquor store, a liquor store, yes, exactly, that's kind of
[00:18:59] absurd. Do you remember last week, I think, that Marysia
[00:19:03] did a report about how in Poland people drink less
[00:19:07] alcohol. Young people are moving away from alcohol, which is very good, that
[00:19:07] they are starting to
[00:19:15] look for, if they want wine, non-alcoholic wine,
[00:19:18] if they buy some drinks,
[00:19:21] they are also very often non-alcoholic drinks. I know that for many this is
[00:19:24] a contradiction altogether, but how can that be? But I know that it's
[00:19:28] absurd, but for some people,
[00:19:32] that you can buy some liquid that doesn't contain alcohol, but pretends to be
[00:19:35] alcohol, no matter. The most important thing is... that people drink
[00:19:38] less alcohol, that's positive.
[00:19:41] Also remember that today drinking
[00:19:44] alcohol, alcoholic disease, is not a disease
[00:19:47] that people like me saw its effects in the times
[00:19:51] of the People's Republic of Poland, when you saw a gentleman lying on a
[00:19:55] bench in the park or somewhere in a ditch, a drunk gentleman covered by his own
[00:19:58] bicycle. Today you don't really see that, at least not
[00:20:02] in Warsaw, but alcohol today in Warsaw
[00:20:06] or in big cities is very often a white-collar disease, in places
[00:20:10] where, for example, I live today, we very often
[00:20:13] find small bottles somewhere right
[00:20:16] next to small shops, in that shop with a
[00:20:19] lizard in the logo, for example, we find a lot of these small bottles, because
[00:20:23] it turns out, as I once talked to a saleswoman in such a shop, it turns
[00:20:27] out that a white collar can, just before
[00:20:30] work, buying rolls and going to work,
[00:20:33] buy a small bottle, he drinks that small bottle before he even sets off. It's
[00:20:37] incredible that this alcoholic disease affects
[00:20:41] people, it would seem, in positions, people whom
[00:20:44] we really wouldn't suspect. I had a friend
[00:20:47] who unfortunately died as a result
[00:20:51] of drinking herself to death with wine, so let's not say that wine is alcohol at
[00:20:55] all, that there is no alcohol. The problem of alcohol in
[00:20:58] Poland exists, even though alcohol sales are falling, it is
[00:21:02] a problem, that's why it's good,
[00:21:05] it's good that nothing bad will happen to anyone who wants to have a drink
[00:21:08] in the evening in a restaurant or at home, it's good
[00:21:11] that this prohibition has been introduced, in my opinion a great
[00:21:15] move, and at the same time these interests, about which you spoke, Kuba, that is, these
[00:21:18] interested parties?
[00:21:28] culinary meetings, where there is a wine
[00:21:30] tasting,
[00:21:33] yes, but of course with such amendments that there must be information that it is harmful, that there is no
[00:21:37] encouragement to buy, but still it passed, so the left wing
[00:21:41] here gave in a bit, because it was a dispute between the left wing and the PSL, first
[00:21:44] of all, but guess what, and what
[00:21:47] the author of this project said yesterday, 400 people,
[00:21:50] 40
[00:21:58] deputies voted for it, including from Law and Justice, but
[00:22:02] guess who didn't vote for it? Confederation, 29, yes,
[00:22:05] 29 deputies from Confederation. I am now
[00:22:09] very curious in the context of the topic we just discussed,
[00:22:12] that is, the presidential signature, whether there will be Karol Nawrocki's signature on
[00:22:16] this law or not, because on the one hand there is Law and Justice.
[00:22:50] that after over two years, the extraordinary committee for
[00:22:53] abortion finally met, a committee that was suspended in July
[00:22:57] 2024, because the coalition could not
[00:23:01] agree, because we remember how it was, that PSL did not
[00:23:04] want legal abortion from the 12th week of pregnancy, the Left said that
[00:23:07] the compromise that was being pushed by PSL and Poland
[00:23:10] 2050 was a rotten compromise, that it was no choice, that it did not
[00:23:14] give women any rights, and it was indeed so,
[00:23:18] that our... reported this.
[00:23:40] From what we know, there was simply no political agreement between the leaders, between these main leaders, I mean the Prime Minister's Office, then literally a few days later there was a Left convention
[00:23:43] summarizing the Left's summer tour, and Włodzimierz Czarzasty gave
[00:23:47] a speech there in which:
[00:24:20] sides, and apparently I have this feeling that the ruling coalition
[00:24:23] has done its homework and knows that these issues,
[00:24:26] that these issues simply need to be delivered
[00:24:30] in the Sejm, because indeed we know that there was a meeting between Włodzimierz
[00:24:33] Czarzasty and Donald Tusk, this committee
[00:24:37] started yesterday and adopted two projects, a project on
[00:24:40] decriminalization of assistance in abortion, meaning that
[00:24:43] relatives of women who underwent
[00:24:47] abortions will not be imprisoned. And the second
[00:24:50] is a return to the abortion compromise, overturned
[00:24:53] by Julia Przyłębska's tribunal, which means that in the coalition can
[00:24:57] we agree? Firstly, that we can agree, but secondly, and this is
[00:25:01] probably the most important, that this topic
[00:25:04] has returned at all, moreover, that all of us here
[00:25:07] know well what its outcome will be, right, because
[00:25:11] none of us expect Karol Nawrocki to sign it,
[00:25:14] absolutely, we are sure that it won't happen,
[00:25:17] yes, but just as we talked.
[00:25:24] this situation, and we know well that even if that
[00:25:28] there will be no signature, the coalition decided so, Mr. President,
[00:25:31] we are doing, we are putting on your table, on your
[00:25:34] desk this project, what you will
[00:25:37] do with it, then explain to Polish women and men why you are
[00:25:40] doing this, why this is your decision, this is now your
[00:25:44] problem, but we, from what we also
[00:25:47] discussed, may have a different idea on how to deal with
[00:25:50] all this, what we will do with it, but as you
[00:25:53] said, there is no more hiding one's head in the sand, pretending that there is no issue,
[00:25:57] especially since we remember, it is practically
[00:26:00] an anniversary.
[00:26:03] of that famous ruling of Julia Przyłębska's tribunal,
[00:26:07] when it suddenly turned out that this compromise,
[00:26:10] which existed for years, is bad, rotten, non-existent,
[00:26:14] in general, it is unconstitutional, and suddenly people, women, came out into
[00:26:18] the streets, in fact the coalition,
[00:26:20] the left, promised
[00:26:23] women then, Poles, that they would deal with this
[00:26:26] matter, that they would change it, that they would return, or go
[00:26:29] further, over these last years, in fact... nothing
[00:26:33] has happened, it was also in a way a slap in the face for
[00:26:37] voters, for those voters
[00:26:40] the coalition, voted for the left, that this issue was not
[00:26:43] touched, that they were afraid to touch it, because they could not
[00:26:47] agree in the coalition, they can agree, this is precisely that evening of miracles
[00:26:50] yesterday or day of miracles yesterday, that they can
[00:26:53] come to an understanding, and in fact even this
[00:26:56] awareness, that Duda was there, now Nawrocki is there, that we will hit
[00:27:00] a wall anyway, no, it must be done, let
[00:27:04] the one who is the head of state then explain
[00:27:07] to Polish women and men why his decision is this, not another, because we know it will be
[00:27:11] negative, yes, I even heard yesterday at the commission, let Karol Nawrocki tell women
[00:27:14] straight to their faces, we will put this law on his desk,
[00:27:17] and we will probably all agree here at this table that
[00:27:21] the laws should have been put on those desks from the very
[00:27:24] beginning, even back then, even back then when
[00:27:28] Andrzej Duda was there, meaning they waited for Rafał
[00:27:31] Trzaskowski. Maybe then everything would be signed, it would fly, it would go
[00:27:35] smoothly, it turned out that there is no Rafał Trzaskowski, there is Karol Nowrocki, and
[00:27:39] only now have they come to the conclusion that darn it, let's do it, because we are
[00:27:43] here to do it, simply, especially since you remember
[00:27:46] that, that decision of Julia Przyłębska's tribunal then, it was
[00:27:50] made at a time when the Polish
[00:27:54] right-wing considered itself omnipotent, meaning it rolled
[00:27:57] over everything regardless of
[00:28:02] the social views were, and we know that social views
[00:28:05] change, they tend to liberalize rather than
[00:28:08] radicalize, right, similarly with
[00:28:11] partnership unions, which we also mentioned here once,
[00:28:14] so it seems to me that the best thing the coalition can do is
[00:28:18] actually put these bills under the president's nose and a bit
[00:28:22] like with fuel, right, saying
[00:28:24] exactly, well, now explain to Poles
[00:28:28] why you are against it, especially since it was
[00:28:31] overturning, I know that the liberal side or let's call
[00:28:35] it the left-liberal side, really doesn't like the word consensus, yes, some
[00:28:38] female politicians, by the way, with whom one sometimes talks, point out that
[00:28:42] one should not use that word at all, because it was never a consensus, on the other hand
[00:28:46] it was indeed a state, I will call it that for
[00:28:49] the purposes of this podcast, a state about which there was a certain
[00:28:53] social agreement, yes, and that agreement was precisely in
[00:28:56] the name of their
[00:28:58] own ideologies, the right-wing decided to
[00:29:02] overturn it, which is another paradox in the context of what
[00:29:06] we are all talking about, because look, the right-wing that freedom-loving one, yes, which wants there is no
[00:29:10] this, there is no this
[00:29:11] freedom here,
[00:29:14] there is no freedom here, what church, what values, after all,
[00:29:17] I say, let's not look at the right-wing through the prism of the church and what is
[00:29:21] written in the Bible, what is written in
[00:29:24] canon law, because they are precisely world champions in breaking all these
[00:29:28] rules, so well, but here they are raising this as a key argument in this
[00:29:31] discussion. The most beautiful thing
[00:29:40] is that I want to hear what Mr. Morawiecki will say, recently
[00:29:43] the defender of women, listen, but before that, to dot the
[00:29:46] i's and cross the t's in this coalition thread, it was indeed
[00:29:50] true that everyone had to take one step back,
[00:29:53] because we remember exactly, you remember before the campaign for the European
[00:29:57] Parliament, a big quarrel in the coalition between Szymon Hołownia,
[00:30:01] who said that he would not process
[00:30:04] abortion bills and Anna Maria Żukowska, who then clashed very sharply,
[00:30:08] because it had to be postponed until after the election, because
[00:30:11] it is an inconvenient and
[00:30:14] controversial topic, and so this topic was indeed constantly
[00:30:17] postponed, we remember that the Left from the beginning said that they did not want this compromise,
[00:30:21] the PSL did not want this 12th week, they did not even want this decriminalization
[00:30:25] also the environment, so now that this
[00:30:28] decriminalization came in the commission, it is also because some PSL MPs
[00:30:31] voted... and that is why the government side and the Prime Minister's Chancellery
[00:30:35] did not really want to raise this topic as far as I know now,
[00:30:39] because it is not on the main agenda, because the main thing is security,
[00:30:42] now the main topic, but the Left needs this
[00:30:46] issue very much, especially the New Left, which is now
[00:30:49] sharply clashing with the Razem party and must show that it is delivering
[00:30:53] something on this issue, because women's rights were a coalition
[00:30:56] promise, women's strikes brought this coalition
[00:31:00] to power, among other things.
[00:31:10] We remember that very well, it is a turning point that Law and Justice will also
[00:31:14] never forget. 40%,
[00:31:17] 44% support, I checked yesterday, it was before
[00:31:20] October 2020, after
[00:31:23] Julia Przyłębska's ruling on abortion, PiS never
[00:31:27] recovered after that, it dropped by 10 percentage points
[00:31:31] and the maximum it had was about 30% in polls, they never
[00:31:34] recovered in polls after that ruling to the level they had before,
[00:31:38] and this is a lesson that I think Mateusz Morawiecki
[00:31:42] learned, and he repeatedly here then...
[00:31:46] in a moment, a statement from 2022, he said that if
[00:31:49] he could turn back time, he would prefer this compromise before Julia
[00:31:53] Przyłębska's ruling and that he was always for it and that if he could, he would
[00:31:57] support this compromise, hence the question of the female MPs
[00:32:00] of the coalition, what will happen now, they plan to say to him,
[00:32:04] "checkmate,"
[00:32:09] we are for maintaining the compromise,
[00:32:12] the abortion compromise in the form in which it
[00:32:15] was shaped, I spoke today with Dorota Oboda, we will want to jointly
[00:32:19] address former Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki with the question
[00:32:23] whether their club is ready to discuss returning to the third
[00:32:26] premise? We will say, "checkmate," to the female MPs and
[00:32:30] male MPs of Development Plus, because Mateusz Morawiecki said that
[00:32:34] Julia Przyłębska's decision was a politically motivated decision and that he was against this decision
[00:32:37] and believed that this agreement, which was in force before
[00:32:41] 2020, should not be violated, so we will see how much it is worth...
[00:34:21] when you tell him "checkmate" by those laws landing on his
[00:34:25] desk, similarly, in my opinion, you have to expose
[00:34:28] politicians, leaders of other
[00:34:31] parties to a test, say "checkmate," because look, Prime Minister
[00:34:34] Mateusz Morawiecki was initially supposed to be this technocratic right, we made fun
[00:34:37] of it here in the first episode, and it turns out
[00:34:41] that, well, declaratively yes, but already, as I understand, when
[00:34:45] it comes to a vote and it will be necessary to simply check how
[00:34:48] the Development Plus MPs voted, such as MP Szczki, it can be very
[00:34:52] interesting, I am curious about this meeting that Katarzyna Kotula and
[00:34:56] Dorota Łoboda announced, because they explicitly announced that the two of them would want to meet with him, talk
[00:34:59] and persuade, I am curious whether this meeting will even
[00:35:03] take place, but here also interesting was the end of Krzysztof
[00:35:06] Szczki's statement, I don't know if you caught it, well, regardless of the controversies that
[00:35:10] surround the Constitutional Tribunal, so even Development Plus
[00:35:13] sees that there is controversy with this ruling, because after all,
[00:35:17] let's remember that Julia Przyłębska's ruling is being questioned
[00:35:20] because it was issued with the participation of substitute judges in the
[00:35:24] judging panel, so well, some have questioned
[00:35:27] the validity of this ruling from the beginning, you know what,
[00:35:31] but I would like to go back to what happened in the commission actually, because when
[00:35:35] I listened yesterday to the statements of some female MPs, especially
[00:35:38] from the right side, it is constantly brought up, you want to kill innocent
[00:35:42] unborn children and so on. In this
[00:35:45] regard, I admit without beating around the bush, I am a conservative
[00:35:48] here, I have my conservative views on this
[00:35:52] matter, however, I am not the conscience
[00:35:55] of a woman, I am not the conscience of each of us, people
[00:35:59] who face such a dramatic choice,
[00:36:03] because reducing, trivializing such a problem,
[00:36:06] such situations, to someone treating
[00:36:10] abortion as a contraceptive, like, I don't know,
[00:36:14] buying.
[00:36:27] is a gigantic drama, which I personally don't
[00:36:31] know if I could face, I couldn't, I don't want to be in
[00:36:35] any way burdened with such a thing, because I would simply
[00:36:38] it's some kind of nightmare, here
[00:36:42] we have such easy, light talk about it, yes you want to
[00:36:46] kill unborn children, it doesn't work like that, it never
[00:36:49] worked like that, I am terrified that one can
[00:36:53] come to such conclusions, that a woman who faces
[00:36:57] a dilemma... whether a child that is in her womb, which
[00:36:59] has lethal defects, which will lead to
[00:37:03] a tragedy for her, for this child, will lead to
[00:37:06] a terrible death in agony, perhaps right after
[00:37:09] birth, that her
[00:37:13] feelings, her life, her decisions are trivialized
[00:37:16] to "oh, she'll just go and kill it," that's not how it works, because
[00:37:20] we also remember what the ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal led to, after all,
[00:37:23] we had deaths of women.
[00:37:27] childbirth, because they did not want to provide them with assistance,
[00:37:31] assistance, because doctors were afraid, or doctors had their conscience clause
[00:37:34] and said no, they will fight
[00:37:37] obviously a huge tragedy, which you are talking about, it is not about
[00:37:40] some mass abortions, it is simply leaving
[00:37:44] the decision and choice to the mother, father,
[00:37:47] parents, and there is indeed an important thing, which
[00:37:51] from yesterday during the commission's work was introduced into this
[00:37:54] law, an amendment which states that this
[00:37:58] woman, who has an abortion, will be
[00:38:01] entitled to psychological care, she will be able to
[00:38:04] apply as it were outside the queue for psychological
[00:38:07] help, you remember those situations, which were precisely,
[00:38:11] that a woman who wanted to have an abortion, was told that
[00:38:14] she was mentally ill, there was no
[00:38:18] mention of psychological help, only, just as then in those times, when
[00:38:21] all this was happening, that a woman who went, because she had a problem, because there was
[00:38:25] a gigantic problem, then first...
[00:38:28] we try to cure her of this idea this idea
[00:38:30] it can't be done, listen, we are talking about
[00:38:34] returning to a compromise, which was worked on, after all,
[00:38:38] these quarrels from the 90s, you remember,
[00:38:40] there were also various protests, after all,
[00:38:44] the church was at these negotiations over this
[00:38:47] dramatic decision, that he is leaving,
[00:38:51] that he is resigning from the function of Speaker of the Sejm, that
[00:38:55] even later,
[00:38:57] I actually very much appreciated at that time that he was one of those who,
[00:39:01] if something was not happening the way he saw it, his world
[00:39:05] of conservative views was presented, then he had
[00:39:08] that, he had that strength in him to say, "thank you,"
[00:39:11] but it was never an easy matter and it will never be an easy
[00:39:15] matter, and I am very glad that it is not an easy matter, but let's not
[00:39:19] trivialize it, let's not say that it is just like that, you kill, you want to
[00:39:22] kill, you have an ideology of death, this is not an ideology
[00:39:26] of death, this is.
[00:39:45] that I would be willing to risk saying that for deeply conservative families it is
[00:39:48] an even greater tragedy, and that is why the arguments we heard at the health
[00:39:52] committee from the female MPs of Law and Justice seem frivolous to me,
[00:39:55] especially since...
[00:40:10] because I remember very well how the parents of disabled
[00:40:13] children were treated when
[00:40:14] they tried
[00:40:17] and then there was, you remember, there was that slogan, there was that there was that talk about that
[00:40:20] you remember the famous picture of the female
[00:40:23] MP who left with such contempt, yes,
[00:40:25] then, but that is precisely that
[00:40:28] for the right, views and the protection of life ends at
[00:40:32] the birth of the child, and then do what you want, then there is no
[00:40:36] state care, and indeed the woman, the family is left
[00:40:39] alone in this situation, but the key question
[00:40:42] again will be, what will Karol Nawrocki do in this matter, we have Zbigniew
[00:40:46] Bogucki's answer, but we also have plan
[00:40:50] B, which the ruling coalition has, if there was no
[00:40:53] presidential signature on these laws.
[00:41:00] will there be presidential support for any law liberalizing
[00:41:04] abortion law in Poland? Of course, that is always the President's decision, I think the President
[00:41:07] made it very clear during the election campaign what his view is on
[00:41:11] this matter concerning the protection of life, from conception to natural death, I think
[00:41:15] nothing has changed here, I mean, I don't think so, I am convinced that in this matter nothing has changed. From President
[00:41:18] Nawrocki, I do not expect anything good, President Nawrocki already during
[00:41:22] the election campaign announced that he would not sign any bill liberalizing abortion
[00:41:25] law, but he wants to tell Polish women straight to their
[00:41:29] faces, and there is such an emergency variant of the Constitutional
[00:41:32] Tribunal, already this changed Tribunal, which would
[00:41:35] issue a different ruling than that from Julia
[00:41:38] Przyłębska's time.
[00:41:51] there is a possibility that the Constitutional
[00:41:54] Tribunal will
[00:41:55] again
[00:42:00] deal with the matter of the constitutionality of abortion laws. So there is this plan B and perhaps the coalition will reach for it if
[00:42:04] Karol Nawrocki does not sign or veto this law, and the Constitutional
[00:42:08] Tribunal... will already be working in full composition, because
[00:42:11] as we know, a part of the judges chosen by the
[00:42:14] Sejm are still waiting in the waiting room, but earlier, at the
[00:42:18] next Sejm session, which we will probably
[00:42:21] talk about in our next podcast, the law is supposed to be, these
[00:42:25] two, two abortion bills are to be voted on,
[00:42:29] this Sejm session is in two weeks and it will be exactly
[00:42:32] around October 22nd, which is the sixth
[00:42:35] anniversary of this famous, infamous
[00:42:39] ruling... Julia Przyłębska's tribunal, which blew up the abortion
[00:42:42] compromise, and it must be
[00:42:45] said that for the coalition, from the coalition's point of view, it will be a symbolic
[00:42:49] moment, a symbolic vote, perhaps for women also symbolic, this ruling not only
[00:42:52] blew up the compromise, it blew up PiS,
[00:42:56] yes, as she said, in my opinion, PiS
[00:42:59] then stopped being Teflon, right, but well, I also think it will be
[00:43:03] very interesting to observe the lists of these votes, meaning
[00:43:06] checking who voted how, which MP
[00:43:10] rose above themselves or
[00:43:13] female MP, well, who stuck to
[00:43:16] their views, I think it will be a very non-obvious vote,
[00:43:20] we will have a lot to talk about in two weeks in our
[00:43:23] podcast, and interestingly, speaking of leftist things,
[00:43:27] the end of the Left's love
[00:43:30] is interesting, all this really
[00:43:33] accelerated after the Krakow elections, where
[00:43:36] well, everyone, of course, says that... the Krakow
[00:43:40] elections do not translate at all into
[00:43:44] representative, which is, of course, true, but it is a certain test of such
[00:43:47] electoral emotions, and for the Left, especially, it
[00:43:50] was such an internal duel, who would turn out to be better
[00:43:54] in this race, whether the candidate of the New Left or
[00:43:58] the candidate of the Razem party, and indeed
[00:44:01] here Ms. Owca turned out to be better than Ms. Gosek Popiołek from
[00:44:05] the Left, well, after these Krakow
[00:44:07] elections something indeed
[00:44:11] accelerated, until now we had from the
[00:44:14] New Left such, I would say, gentle treatment of the Razem party, which
[00:44:18] constantly, it must be said, undermined,
[00:44:22] kicked, pointed out that the Left was not delivering on these leftist ideals,
[00:44:26] that nothing was happening in healthcare, that nothing was happening in housing,
[00:44:30] and from what I know, behind
[00:44:33] closed doors, this last
[00:44:35] weekend there was a meeting of the Left's leadership, a decision
[00:44:39] was made. As I heard from one of the MPs, off the record, I cannot
[00:44:43] say this on the record, but off the record, our leader
[00:44:45] said, "the end of love," we remember that Włodzimierz
[00:44:49] Czarzasty from the very beginning wanted to glue
[00:44:53] together, hug this broad Left,
[00:44:56] let's listen.
[00:45:01] I hug, I love, I unite,
[00:45:04] I smile, that's what my role consists of. Adrian behaves
[00:45:08] in such a way that he will spite the liberals and soon hand over power
[00:45:12] to the fascists, well generally I do not
[00:45:15] agree with such a way of thinking, constant attacking of this
[00:45:19] government leads according to him to it, that
[00:45:23] it will be better, in my opinion, it can simply lead to
[00:45:26] Mr. Brown together with Mr. Bossak,
[00:45:30] Bentsen, with Mr. Czarnek, with Mr.
[00:45:33] Matecki, with Mr. Suski, simply
[00:45:36] doing what he was doing, I think this needs to be said loudly.
[00:45:40] at the moment when anything depended on the four votes they had in the Sejm,
[00:45:43] we voted on the issue of immunity, removing
[00:45:46] immunity in the case of the arrest of Mr. Ziobro, well,
[00:45:50] here the Razem party defended Ziobro, the same situation
[00:45:53] was with Mencen.
[00:45:56] Well, we are dealing not only with perhaps the end
[00:46:01] of the politics of love, but I understand that this
[00:46:05] hugging
[00:46:07] to the heart until suffocated is turning into a kick.
[00:46:19] That is, it also turned out that this pie is not that big to divide, and one has to
[00:46:23] wonder who will simply reach for that
[00:46:25] pie, this translation will not be simple,
[00:46:29] but but it actually turned out that somewhere at the local government level,
[00:46:33] these Razem structures can cope,
[00:46:36] achieve a good result, regardless of what is happening in...
[00:46:40] national politics, because in national politics, I would just like to
[00:46:43] emphasize, well, in fact, Razem deserted after
[00:46:47] 2023, but but you know what, when
[00:46:50] we look at the history of Razem as a matter of fact. Let's look at it
[00:46:53] this way, Razem, in fact, in itself, if
[00:46:56] Razem went to the elections independently, it would fight
[00:47:00] for 5%, well, they have
[00:47:04] about 4.9 in the polls, that's the maximum from what I've seen, they don't exceed
[00:47:08] 5%, moreover, I am convinced that for
[00:47:11] Zandberg and for a few other people, the most important thing is to
[00:47:14] exceed 3% to give them peace and quiet, in fact,
[00:47:18] you remember what happened, it already happened before, that Razem was first a great
[00:47:21] revelation, Adrian Zandberg in general, the new creator
[00:47:25] of the Left, a new, new great, great personality, then
[00:47:29] it disappeared, those 3% were ideal for them, because today when
[00:47:32] they are in the Sejm, they still have to say something, and if they get 3%, they get subsidies and
[00:47:36] there is peace and quiet, they can act, do their own thing,
[00:47:39] no one is very interested in them, and there is
[00:47:43] money, unfortunately, I am oversimplifying at this moment, but it seems to
[00:47:46] me that this party looks a bit like that, so
[00:47:50] in fact, what Włodzimierz is doing at this moment is not a fight for
[00:47:54] whether Razem will be stronger than
[00:47:57] the New Left, it is a fight for whether
[00:48:01] Razem will take away some more of those percentages and we will be
[00:48:04] weaker because of it, and in fact in
[00:48:06] 2015 2015, when in fact
[00:48:10] the Left did not enter, and the United Right got
[00:48:13] a majority precisely because of Razem's result then,
[00:48:16] exactly, Zandberg had over 3%, the Left
[00:48:20] as a coalition did not cross that percentage threshold for
[00:48:24] a coalition and did not enter the Sejm, for which today's
[00:48:27] coalition partners actually blame Razem, that then PiS was allowed
[00:48:31] to power, because if the Left had entered the government then, the democratic
[00:48:35] side would have had that majority, and this is indeed this one
[00:48:38] aspect, but if I still return to Krakow, because there
[00:48:42] is not such a homogeneous situation, because Łukasz Gibała is not a right-wing
[00:48:45] person, he is a person who, we remember, was in the Palikot movement, he has very
[00:48:49] liberal, even leftist views.
[00:48:52] So some of these leftist voters indeed flowed
[00:48:56] to him, and the Confederation, as we know, also voted for him,
[00:49:00] so he is a candidate who is quite out of the mainstream, so he
[00:49:03] gathered a very diverse electorate, but indeed this fight of the Left
[00:49:07] Razem will be fierce, here
[00:49:10] we hear on the one hand that Razem are couch potatoes from the Left, there they
[00:49:13] say that the Left are trough-feeders, so this politics of gentleness has definitely
[00:49:17] ended, we know that the Left is fighting for
[00:49:21] at least... to exceed 10% in a year, as
[00:49:25] I heard from the leaders of the Left, everything above 10 will be a good
[00:49:28] result for them, they now after this summer tour
[00:49:32] indeed had polls exceeding
[00:49:34] 8% support, so they caught up a bit compared to
[00:49:38] June, because when I checked, they indeed had six,
[00:49:42] seven then in June, it increased a bit, and they are starting a new
[00:49:45] tour this autumn, but above all, the narrative will probably
[00:49:49] change towards the Razem party, which we already have.
[00:49:53] But also see how the Left has changed, that's one thing, but another thing
[00:49:56] is also how Karol Nawrocki,
[00:49:59] I don't know yet, is trying to throw the Left into such a
[00:50:02] post-communist bag, this is
[00:50:05] a completely different Left, he indeed Karol Nawrocki keeps
[00:50:08] bringing up the Marshal's
[00:50:10] past,
[00:50:13] and so on, various things, only that when we look at these
[00:50:16] Left activists, these are completely different people, this is a completely different
[00:50:20] Left than the Left that I still remember. There, those
[00:50:23] indeed post-communist ones, which entered the Sejm, and
[00:50:27] today pointing out to this Left something that
[00:50:30] is prehistory from the point of view of young people, is completely, in my opinion,
[00:50:34] shooting a blank, because for young people
[00:50:38] they don't remember the PRL, they don't know what the PRL is, for them
[00:50:42] here, when they see young Gawkowski or they see other young politicians
[00:50:45] of the Left, telling them that he is some
[00:50:48] commie is a complete abstraction, a complete...
[00:50:55] Absolutely, especially since Gawkowski knows how to fight for young people, we already
[00:50:58] see that, a few other left-wing
[00:51:01] politicians know how to fight for young people, that's also visible, all the housing, junk
[00:51:05] contracts, what the Left offers
[00:51:08] young people today, this is what these young
[00:51:12] people are waiting for, and they can indeed build themselves up
[00:51:15] very strongly here, this will really be a battle for young people that may be fought
[00:51:19] between the Left and the Confederation, here will probably be the... this time a very
[00:51:23] balance of power, where,
[00:51:26] which of these parties, of these groupings will
[00:51:30] reach for young people more, or does the coalition have such a chance for
[00:51:33] youth? I think the coalition has its electorate a bit older,
[00:51:37] whereas the Left and the Confederation will be fighting for young people, but
[00:51:40] also together, in that arrangement together there is also, yes, but you know, but PiS cannot
[00:51:44] push that narrative that the
[00:51:47] Left is that post-communist Left, these are
[00:51:50] completely different people,
[00:51:53] left-wing views in Poland today are completely different views than what
[00:51:57] it was during communism
[00:52:00] in Poland and in the PRL, it's a completely different world, so you can only get lost on that. The paradox of this narrative is
[00:52:04] also that it resonates
[00:52:07] even more strongly, because some
[00:52:11] female ministers in the current government are people
[00:52:15] who come from Razem, like for example, Minister
[00:52:17] Dziemianowicz-Bąk, she is simply from the core
[00:52:21] of this Razem-like core, not some post-communist core,
[00:52:25] but I would like to draw attention to it very nicely,
[00:52:28] that your hundred, Ania, appeared with Marshal
[00:52:31] Czarzasty, because it seems to me that he also perfectly
[00:52:35] managed this ideological response to what Karol Nawrocki is doing, that is,
[00:52:38] his entry into a direct clash with the President
[00:52:42] as the second person in the state, as the Marshal
[00:52:46] after all, these very strong speeches, both at the
[00:52:49] summary of the summer tour, which you mentioned, and the very
[00:52:52] strong speech by Czarzasty at
[00:52:56] cards from which he says, we need to deal with this and this and this, it's important,
[00:53:00] let's stand in truth, let's stand, let's not be afraid, let's not back down. And so on and so
[00:53:03] forth, this is something that is needed, it seems to me, on
[00:53:07] laws,
[00:53:09] as it were, fulfilling consecutive of the 100 demands that the coalition promised,
[00:53:13] ideological superstructure,
[00:53:17] showing that these are our values, we will not back down,
[00:53:20] the right wing does not have, he said in Olsztyn, in
[00:53:24] Kortowo Olsztyńskie, Czarzasty, the right wing does not
[00:53:27] have, does not have a monopoly on patriotism,
[00:53:30] the right wing cannot dictate our lives, cannot look into
[00:53:33] our beds, and so on and so forth, that means Czarzasty took himself and it seems to
[00:53:37] me that part of this growing result of the new Left,
[00:53:41] that's his, that is, it's a firm stance, showing, hey, you're not
[00:53:45] alone, you who have different views than right-wing or even center-right,
[00:53:48] it started to grow since he became Marshal of the Sejm and became
[00:53:52] a strong opponent versus Karol Nawrocki,
[00:53:55] and actually we have a very strong spark there,
[00:53:58] the Marshal of the Sejm, and indeed it completely
[00:54:02] changed when... we remember, Czarzasty always was,
[00:54:05] he was famous for his language, how he could express himself, but he was
[00:54:09] also very
[00:54:11] much a backstage person, after all, we're talking about what's
[00:54:15] happening, he was a man who could hold
[00:54:19] a grudge, yes, we know that well, he was often sulky, he didn't want to talk
[00:54:22] to someone and so on, but
[00:54:26] today, when he became Marshal of the Sejm, he caught the wind in his sails, he
[00:54:29] not only caught the wind in his sails, but he also
[00:54:32] grew, built himself up, and is building the Left. Really, when
[00:54:36] we look at him today, he comes across as a statesman who
[00:54:39] can really still do a lot, and so,
[00:54:42] entering into a direct clash with Karol Nawrocki on various
[00:54:46] fronts, when he doesn't back down, but
[00:54:50] says, I'm fighting you here, that's really
[00:54:53] something that not only the Left, but probably the entire coalition
[00:54:56] was hoping for, because that's how it is, when we look,
[00:55:00] just now I saw in the Sejm that Mr. Hołownia was there,
[00:55:04] Czarzasty and Hołownia are completely two different worlds of running
[00:55:08] the Sejm. Hołownia was
[00:55:11] Czarzasty is very concrete in what he does and says, that
[00:55:15] builds him, the voters probably expect that more than that niceness that was there, listen, that's
[00:55:19] also an element of a larger puzzle. There's one year left
[00:55:22] for the entire ruling coalition, internal estimates and conversations from my
[00:55:26] talks with politicians of the coalition indicate that if the Left really
[00:55:30] achieves a result above 10%, support for the coalition
[00:55:33] civic will remain at the level it is, then there's a chance that
[00:55:36] power will be maintained, and perhaps the PSL will also join
[00:55:40] in, whether they go together or separately with the coalition, we'll
[00:55:43] leave that for another time, this topic, because there's also
[00:55:46] a lot of interesting information there, but the Left clearly knows that it has to
[00:55:50] bite the bullet and as I said, that
[00:55:54] a signal was sent that the end of the politics of love with the Razem party
[00:55:57] has come, so they really started acting,
[00:56:01] because the Left simply... that the end of love, yes, already on Tuesday
[00:56:12] in the plenary hall we could see
[00:56:15] that this end of love had indeed come, we had a sharp exchange
[00:56:19] of words between Adrian Zandberg and Agnieszka Dziemianowicz-Bąk, who, as
[00:56:23] you reminded, was once in the Razem party, so you could say they are former
[00:56:27] party colleagues, but here's another curiosity, do you know when Agnieszka
[00:56:30] Dziemianowicz-Bąk left the Razem party? On February
[00:56:34] 14th. "Dear
[00:57:06] sirs, let's change it, let's modify these
[00:57:09] indicators in the budget, let's raise the minimum wage
[00:57:13] and wages in the budget sector, so that not..."
[00:57:48] exactly the same as without your participation
[00:57:51] we carried out the biggest reform of the State Labour Inspectorate,
[00:57:54] the same one that you tried very hard to make disgusting,
[00:57:58] you called it "ogryzkowa" (apple core), you considered it unnecessary,
[00:58:01] meanwhile, thanks to this change, Polish workers
[00:58:04] are getting employment contracts, without your participation
[00:58:07] we introduced a Christmas Eve free from work, for that
[00:58:11] change, you couldn't even raise your
[00:58:14] hand, exactly like you couldn't raise your hand. For
[00:58:17] the possibility of arresting Zbigniew Ziobro, but that's of course
[00:58:21] a slightly different matter, returning to
[00:58:24] workers, for many years, every
[00:58:27] month, each of you collects
[00:58:30] tens of thousands of zlotys and from these of your, from
[00:58:33] these moneys, the Polish worker gets exactly
[00:58:37] nothing. Let's be honest, the only
[00:58:40] jobs and the only wages that concern your
[00:58:43] Razem party, are your wages.
[00:58:50] From these wages, the Polish worker gets
[00:58:53] a round zero, that's why in the name of millions of hardworking
[00:58:56] people in Poland, I have one
[00:58:59] message for you: to
[00:59:00] work,
[00:59:07] somehow the sun
[00:59:08] shone,
[00:59:13] and it will shine like that now on the left, no more love, no more...
[00:59:17] hugging, no, the minister really adjusted her cap, pulled out
[00:59:21] a revolver and started shooting, but you saw Adrian Zandberg's face,
[00:59:25] who always says, I'm so cool, I can
[00:59:28] say a lot here, suddenly you can see the air leaving him, when he is
[00:59:31] hit with concrete facts, then there's no argument and
[00:59:35] you can see him turning purple in the face, that they were simply, as
[00:59:39] we said earlier, they are best off taking 3%, taking
[00:59:43] the money and going to sleep, because this, listen, at the end of the day it's always a discussion
[00:59:47] about effectiveness. Yes, that is, even if these changes are not
[00:59:50] one hundred percent satisfying, yes, these are still changes that
[00:59:54] these voters expect, voters of this broad coalition, who for some
[00:59:58] reason did not vote for the United Right and expected something else, they
[01:00:02] expect that at least something will move forward, these may
[01:00:05] not be revolutionary changes, these may not be changes that would
[01:00:09] restore the political life from before
[01:00:13] 2015, but let's move forward,
[01:00:16] let's push through more... laws, let them land on
[01:00:19] the President's desk, let's confront the leaders
[01:00:22] of the Right with them and observe what happens next, you can
[01:00:25] do something or do nothing, that's also a choice, or it's also
[01:00:29] a choice of who will rule in a year, do we go
[01:00:32] together, unite forces as a democratic side, or
[01:00:36] do we hand over power to the Right, but we don't
[01:00:38] hand it over, we cast