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20261012 120000 UTC
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[00:00:40] with the price set
[00:01:01] I... also know from information
[00:01:13] Forest and land fires, or 'karhutla', in Indonesia have once again become
[00:01:16] the focus of the Southeast Asian region. Since August
[00:01:19] 2026, the smoke from land fires in Kalimantan,
[00:01:23] for example, has had a direct impact on air quality in
[00:01:26] Sarawak, Malaysia. This condition has even led to the closure
[00:01:30] of hundreds of schools in Malaysia to protect the health of the
[00:01:33] students. The issue of karhutla is no longer just
[00:01:37] an internal environmental problem, but also a diplomatic challenge
[00:01:40] for Indonesia. The Indonesian government continues to make efforts
[00:01:44] to extinguish fires through ground and air operations,
[00:01:47] weather modification, and monitoring of smoke
[00:01:50] spread. President Prabowo Subianto also directly inspected
[00:01:54] the fire sites in West Kalimantan.
[00:01:57] However, amidst these efforts, Indonesia still faces
[00:02:01] the challenge of balancing its authority in managing
[00:02:04] its own territory with the responsibility to address the impact
[00:02:07] of cross-border smoke. Amidst
[00:02:11] the impact of cross-border smoke, Indonesia is also strengthening
[00:02:15] cooperation with neighboring countries, one of which
[00:02:18] is through coordination with Malaysia in efforts
[00:02:21] to modify the weather and exchange data and
[00:02:25] coordination through the ASEAN mechanism. This step is
[00:02:28] part of Indonesia's efforts
[00:02:32] to handle forest fires while maintaining relations with countries in
[00:02:34] the region. One of these cooperation instruments is
[00:02:38] the ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary Haze Pollution or
[00:02:42] AATP, which serves as a foundation for member
[00:02:45] countries to coordinate and exchange information.
[00:02:49] Nevertheless, the recurrence of the haze crisis due to forest fires
[00:02:53] raises questions about the extent to which ASEAN
[00:02:57] countries are capable of compliance and taking
[00:03:00] more effective
[00:03:02] handling decisions.
[00:03:21] serious problem. The government continues to carry out extinguishing and prevention efforts,
[00:03:24] while the impact of haze is also a concern for neighboring countries,
[00:03:27] especially Malaysia. Diplomatically,
[00:03:30] the Indonesian government has communicated with Malaysia to
[00:03:33] explain the steps for handling forest fires, including
[00:03:36] the deployment of personnel and air fleet. So, how can diplomacy
[00:03:40] go hand in hand with prevention, environmental protection, and
[00:03:44] law enforcement? We will discuss this tonight with our speakers
[00:03:47] who are connected online and also present in the studio. There is Mr.
[00:03:51] Ogiandavis Juanda as an international
[00:03:55] law and global justice observer. Good evening, Mr. Ogi, greetings
[00:03:58] to you, and we are also connected online with Mr. Muhammad Hidayat,
[00:04:02] an expert staff member of Bakom Republik Indonesia, and also Mr.
[00:04:05] Wahyu Perdana, Advocacy Manager and Campaign for Pantau Gambut.
[00:04:09] Good evening, Mr. Hidayat and Mr. Wahyu, greetings
[00:04:12] to you all. Good evening, Mr.
[00:04:15] Fahmi. Good evening, Mr. Hidayat and
[00:04:19] Mr. Fahmi. Yes, Mr. Ogi, Mr. Wahyu. Yes, good evening, Mr.
[00:04:23] Yes, before I go to Mr. Hidayat and also Mr. Wahyu, I'll go to Mr. Ogi
[00:04:26] first. Mr. Ogi, if we look at the haze when
[00:04:30] it crosses national borders, of course, this is no longer just a
[00:04:34] domestic issue. Well, from the perspective of
[00:04:37] international law, how should Indonesia position itself
[00:04:41] in dealing with this cross-border impact, sir? Yes, first we
[00:04:45] must emphasize again that the problem of forest and
[00:04:49] land fires occurring today in several regions of Indonesia, in Kalimantan
[00:04:52] and Sumatra, including Sulawesi, is not an ordinary
[00:04:56] domestic problem or a problem of a
[00:04:58] development region in the Republic of Indonesia. But we must see it far beyond
[00:05:02] that, that there is an impact that is then caused by these
[00:05:06] it earlier, and I said forest and land fires. The impact is also very significant,
[00:05:09] not only causing air pollution.
[00:05:13] Air pollution, health, even if we look at
[00:05:17] various media, these forest
[00:05:20] and land fires then also cause an impact on economic
[00:05:24] and transportation activities in several regions, not only in
[00:05:27] the territory of the Republic of Indonesia, but also then it has become cross-border,
[00:05:31] meaning it has reached several neighboring countries. We can
[00:05:35] mention the Philippines there, there is also
[00:05:38] Brunei Darussalam, and even Malaysia. This means
[00:05:42] that... what we are facing today is no longer a national problem of a country,
[00:05:45] no longer a domestic problem of a country, but has reached
[00:05:49] the level of a diplomatic issue and also an
[00:05:52] international problem. Well, I think this is important to emphasize that
[00:05:56] we cannot see the problem of forest fires
[00:06:00] and land fires as merely a regional problem. So,
[00:06:03] the steps that need to be taken by the government are also steps that I
[00:06:07] think need more effective, stronger,
[00:06:11] and bigger steps in order to tackle
[00:06:15] the problem of forest and land fires, especially since this haze is
[00:06:18] so thick if we look at various media.
[00:06:22] I think Indonesia certainly needs to take extraordinary
[00:06:25] actions that not only rely on domestic
[00:06:29] instruments, but also need to conduct international
[00:06:33] cooperation with countries that are then
[00:06:36] affected by these forest and land fires. I think that's it.
[00:06:40] Well, and Indonesia has also... Of course, contacted foreign parties,
[00:06:44] especially Malaysia. They are collaborating,
[00:06:47] and hopefully, it will go well. There are also neighboring countries
[00:06:51] like Japan that have helped us, of course. Now, if
[00:06:55] Mr. Ogi sees how this relationship will work out,
[00:06:58] is it possible that the suspicion is that
[00:07:02] neighboring countries will not be happy, it won't go smoothly, or maybe
[00:07:05] it can go according to plan? In principle, it's like this: if
[00:07:08] we mitigate or try
[00:07:11] to overcome the events that are happening today, forest
[00:07:15] and land fires, and then they cause a haze impact on neighboring
[00:07:18] countries, I think the primary priority that the Indonesian
[00:07:22] government must put forward is to establish cooperation with the most affected
[00:07:25] countries, namely Malaysia, Brunei Darussalam, and also
[00:07:28] the Philippines. Well, I think we are bound by an
[00:07:31] international agreement, there is the
[00:07:34] ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary Haze Pollution of 2002, which
[00:07:38] our country has also ratified through
[00:07:42] our national legal instrument, through Law No.
[00:07:45] 26 of 2014. I
[00:07:47] think in the ASEAN agreement, it is very
[00:07:51] clear and very obvious that what must be done
[00:07:54] by our government is, of course, to establish cooperation with countries
[00:07:58] that are members or part of the
[00:08:01] ASEAN agreement, namely the countries of Southeast Asia.
[00:08:04] Well, I think in today's situation, then
[00:08:07] the main focus of the government, I think, is not on
[00:08:11] countries that are not affected. Of course, what needs to be prioritized
[00:08:15] first is to establish cooperation,
[00:08:17] coordination. There is no need to be ashamed to ask for help from
[00:08:21] neighboring countries such as Malaysia, the Philippines, and
[00:08:24] also Brunei Darussalam, because these four countries
[00:08:28] are interconnected regarding the event of forest
[00:08:31] and land fires. I think that's what needs to be put forward by
[00:08:35] our government. Well then, Mr. Hidayat. Mr. Hidayat, we
[00:08:39] know that the data I obtained from the Ministry of Forestry
[00:08:42] recorded 1201 hotspots with high confidence
[00:08:46] until October 6th, and it has started to
[00:08:49] decrease from the previous 1359 hotspots
[00:08:52] the day before. Well, Mr. Hidayat, forest fires are still
[00:08:56] occurring in a number of regions in Indonesia, and even
[00:09:00] the haze has an impact on neighboring countries, especially Malaysia. How
[00:09:04] does the government view this situation, and
[00:09:07] what steps are being taken to overcome
[00:09:10] it until now?
[00:09:13] Good, thank you Mr. Fahmi, thank you Mr. Ogi for your input, and
[00:09:17] Mr. Wahyu is here. So, the point is, before that, let's
[00:09:20] pray for the struggles of all elements in the field.
[00:09:24] If we look at the data, there are 69,190
[00:09:28] personnel from various elements who are currently struggling, both ground task force and
[00:09:32] air task force. The point is that
[00:09:34] currently, of course, the Indonesian government,
[00:09:38] especially President Prabowo, clarifies
[00:09:42] that these forest fires are one of the priorities in
[00:09:46] handling them, as Mr. Ogi mentioned in various
[00:09:49] places. We can see that
[00:09:52] diplomacy has become a crucial point
[00:09:56] where he is concerned about
[00:09:59] various impacts occurring due to
[00:10:02] forest fires. The diplomacy of the ASEAN
[00:10:05] Agreement on Haze Pollution, which we have
[00:10:09] ratified on October 14, 2014.
[00:10:12] Then, this diplomacy, the essence
[00:10:15] of it is how we agree to carry out
[00:10:19] prevention, monitoring, and also mitigation and emergency
[00:10:22] response. And I think in ASEAN, it's not just
[00:10:26] diplomacy related to forest fires. We can
[00:10:29] refer to collaboration
[00:10:32] within the AHA Centre. We have the ASEAN Coordinating
[00:10:36] Centre for Humanitarian Assistance on Disaster Management in the humanitarian
[00:10:39] and disaster aspect. The point is that currently we are also struggling
[00:10:43] in handling on the ground, namely
[00:10:46] including law enforcement. So,
[00:10:49] we agree that the handling of forest fires
[00:10:53] is not only from the perspective of on-the-ground
[00:10:56] handling, but supervision is important.
[00:11:00] So, it can be said that forest fires are not only an aspect of forests and
[00:11:04] the environment, but governance, this governance is what we
[00:11:08] must all improve, and there must be collaboration among various
[00:11:11] stakeholders. That's it, sir. Well, what actually happened with the
[00:11:15] repetition that always occurs every year,
[00:11:19] Mr. Hidayat, when forest fires
[00:11:22] keep happening, usually
[00:11:26] that perhaps people are burning trash
[00:11:29] manually, right? They even burn it without
[00:11:32] extinguishing it properly, right? And also
[00:11:36] there might be some parties from perhaps
[00:11:39] factories, they burn it intentionally. So, what will
[00:11:43] the future prevention and mitigation efforts be like, Mr.
[00:11:46] Sidain?
[00:11:49] Well, we agree that El Nino is
[00:11:52] one of the triggers. From 2015,
[00:11:56] 2019, 2023, that's the data from the Ministry of Forestry when
[00:12:00] the El Nino phase occurred,
[00:12:02] fires or forest fires increased.
[00:12:05] And the point is prevention, prevention, and
[00:12:08] yesterday President called
[00:12:11] and discussed with 22 peatland expert researchers. Perhaps
[00:12:15] later, we also ask for input
[00:12:18] from Mr. Wahyu regarding Pantau Gambut. Several
[00:12:22] inputs from Mr. Wahyu have also been read and
[00:12:25] seen in various discussions, and also
[00:12:29] the existence of the Peatland and Mangrove Management Agency
[00:12:32] at the national level, this has become one mitigation where
[00:12:36] the president stated that changing the paradigm
[00:12:39] from reactive. Reactive, that means when
[00:12:42] forest fires occur, we only then
[00:12:46] scramble to take action. However, when we change
[00:12:50] from reactive to preventive, one of them is the Peatland
[00:12:53] and National Management Agency. This has become one
[00:12:57] of our efforts and endeavors as a government so that it does not
[00:13:00] happen every year repeatedly, these forest fires.
[00:13:03] Well, I'll go to Mr.
[00:13:07] Wahyu, Mr. Wahyu, if we look at the forest fires that happen
[00:13:10] every year, even though the government certainly doesn't
[00:13:13] just sit idly by. Many methods are certainly
[00:13:16] carried out to extinguish them. So, from the monitoring
[00:13:20] of Pantau Gambut, what is the fundamental problem
[00:13:24] that makes fires in peatland areas so difficult to stop permanently, Mr.
[00:13:28] Wahyu? First, it must
[00:13:31] be realized that the haze or smoke that is created is
[00:13:34] the main dominant indicator of burning in peatland
[00:13:40] peatland ecosystems cannot then
[00:13:42] be immediately
[00:13:45] extinguished at that very moment. So, if
[00:13:48] there is clearing in peatland areas, it means the
[00:13:51] drying process was carried out beforehand. Now,
[00:13:55] according to our records and canal maps, it can
[00:13:58] be seen that the length of these canals is approximately the length of the Trans Java
[00:14:02] highway, back and forth 120 times. So, there is a systematic
[00:14:05] drying effort. If I quote Mr. Ogi
[00:14:08] Juanda earlier, don't be ashamed to
[00:14:12] ask for outside help. I think it is also important
[00:14:15] to reflect and also be open that there is
[00:14:19] a problem in the context of peatland governance. It is important
[00:14:22] to remember that the Peatland Restoration Agency and Mangrove Restoration Agency were
[00:14:26] previously disbanded and then an initiative emerged. We were involved
[00:14:30] in discussions at Dikti and continued at the Ministry
[00:14:33] of Forestry with almost more than 100 experts
[00:14:36] and specialists, most of whom were actually
[00:14:40] experts and specialists involved in BRG and
[00:14:42] BRGM in the previous period. Now, this is a
[00:14:46] note. Secondly, if we then look
[00:14:49] at the important statistical data, it is also important to
[00:14:53] see that there is a very large concession responsibility. Then some
[00:14:56] of these concessions are from neighboring countries, but then
[00:15:00] this responsibility cannot be ignored or passed on, because
[00:15:04] then the licensing process in peatland
[00:15:07] ecosystems, even though it is prohibited and they get permits,
[00:15:11] is within our authority. Meanwhile, ATTHP is
[00:15:14] in the realm of disaster coordination, so it is not
[00:15:18] included in the realm of law enforcement, not included in the context
[00:15:22] of considerations and ensuring
[00:15:25] that the raw material flow, supply
[00:15:28] chain, or money comes from a damaged context.
[00:15:32] Our records, for example, show a significant leap from post-July
[00:15:36] to August and September. The total
[00:15:39] peatland ecosystem identified as having forest
[00:15:42] fire hotspots reached 294,375.
[00:15:45] It's a bit different to read
[00:15:48] hotspots
[00:15:50] with
[00:15:52] high confidence compared to peatland ecosystems whose hotspots are also
[00:15:55] partially below the surface. That's what's important
[00:15:59] to note, that there was an
[00:16:02] increase in El Nino from July
[00:16:05] to August. The increase
[00:16:08] in hotspots was only in the peatland hydrological units. At least we noted
[00:16:11] a 1006% increase, but it cannot
[00:16:15] be seen as a standalone factor. El Nino must
[00:16:19] be seen as a risk factor. The BMKG
[00:16:22] warned long before, then
[00:16:25] there are many satellites
[00:16:29] that can be read showing that the risk is high.
[00:16:32] If the peatland ecosystem is maintained, because naturally,
[00:16:35] peat is wet. So, in many environmental studies,
[00:16:39] it is actually more often referred to as a peatland swamp
[00:16:43] ecosystem. In our regulations, the map
[00:16:46] of the ecosystem in the Ministry of Forestry is known as a peatland hydrological
[00:16:49] regulate the groundwater level
[00:16:53] to be 40 cm, or simply put, if we
[00:16:56] dig a hole in a peatland ecosystem, it should be
[00:17:00] 40 cm to find water. If then that regulation
[00:17:03] is enforced, it is impossible for
[00:17:07] fires to occur. I think in this context,
[00:17:11] it is a big lesson, because this is post-2015
[00:17:14] and entering 2026. This is
[00:17:18] cumulative in the same period, increasing more
[00:17:22] than before. So, I think this is a warning not only in
[00:17:26] the context of rapid emergency response and in the context of international
[00:17:29] relations, talking about joint emergency response,
[00:17:33] but also the context of how this does not happen in the coming
[00:17:37] period, because the flow of money and
[00:17:40] the flow of raw materials that come from burnt peatland ecosystems
[00:17:43] do not stop only in Indonesia. I think that's
[00:17:47] the note, and if we look at our spatial
[00:17:50] study, for example, in the fact
[00:17:53] sheet we just released, not only Malaysia, Singapore, there
[00:17:57] is Brunei, there is the Philippines, besides the two
[00:18:00] countries where the haze mass is quite long, those with a haze
[00:18:03] period of only 1 to 3 days, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand are also
[00:18:07] affected. So, I think this is a
[00:18:11] big note that resolution and emergency
[00:18:14] response are not enough. The context of long-term governance
[00:18:18] so that this does not recur in future periods. I think
[00:18:22] that's some notes. How do you do it, sir?
[00:18:25] Planting 40 cm, and below it there is
[00:18:29] water so that it doesn't burn. Perhaps
[00:18:32] the incident of forest fires happening again,
[00:18:36] there must be a method, right?
[00:18:38] If the groundwater level must
[00:18:42] be fulfilled, it means that actually
[00:18:45] we used to have an approach called PIPIT in the previous period,
[00:18:49] an indicative map of new permit delays in
[00:18:52] the context of forest fires. Currently, this is actually a
[00:18:55] momentum that requires a moratorium on not
[00:18:59] opening new peatlands. It is also
[00:19:02] in the peatland ecosystem. So, there are some ecosystems that
[00:19:06] are very vulnerable if opened and already. It is not
[00:19:09] something that can be restored. So,
[00:19:12] it is important, and what must be seen, I think,
[00:19:16] is not only in the context of concessions, community
[00:19:19] land, because we found
[00:19:22] a new pattern. If in the BRG BRGM era,
[00:19:25] we conducted joint monitoring in the Sumatra Kalimantan area,
[00:19:29] there was a new open area that started to burn,
[00:19:33] and the smoke even reached South Papua.
[00:19:36] Ironically,
[00:19:38] we see that it is within the forest area release
[00:19:42] decree SK 591 that was issued. I think the context is not
[00:19:46] only in the context of forest fire governance but also in the context of evaluating
[00:19:49] what policies have been implemented
[00:20:40] they said many times,
[00:20:43] for years, without intervention, no country, related
[00:20:47] to food security, Bulog has conducted
[00:20:50] absorption of unhulled rice and rice in
[00:20:53] the Yogyakarta region by forming a
[00:20:57] team called the 'Jemput Gabah' (Picking Up Unhulled Rice) team. The harvest
[00:21:00] from farmers is directly
[00:21:03] taken to the fields. Of course, farmers can
[00:21:06] enjoy good prices, better
[00:21:09] than when farmers
[00:21:12] sell to traders or
[00:21:15] collectors.
[00:21:18] First of all, I would like to thank Mr. President Prabowo who has
[00:21:22] launched the food security program with a price
[00:21:24] of Rp6,500, especially for dried harvested
[00:21:27] unhulled rice, and we are very happy
[00:21:30] by the government, and
[00:21:33] we want this program not to stop this season.
[00:21:37] We hope this program will last for 5 to 10 years
[00:21:40] to come. Farmers truly desire
[00:21:44] this program, which truly helps farmers. Thank you
[00:21:47] to Mr. President Prabowo. who
[00:21:50] has bought farmers' unhulled rice at
[00:21:53] a price of 6,500 per kilogram. Let's support food
[00:21:57] security, smart farmers, prosperous people.
[00:22:20] President Prabowo Subianto has held a limited meeting discussing
[00:22:24] the handling of forest fires in several regions of Indonesia, held at the presidential
[00:22:27] palace in Jakarta. The head of state instructed to
[00:22:31] continue optimizing the handling of forest fires. Here is a statement
[00:22:34] from the Coordinating Minister for Political and Security Affairs, Dudung
[00:22:37] Abdulrahman.
[00:22:41] The priority in Central Kalimantan is Tanjung Kurutin or
[00:22:45] around the national park, because
[00:22:48] there are animals there, and
[00:22:52] then the report from the head of
[00:22:55] PBD states that the
[00:22:59] operational helicopters have
[00:23:01] been deployed and more dominantly for
[00:23:05] ground operations, because it is indeed difficult to reach
[00:23:08] from the air because the smoke
[00:23:12] is too thick. Then
[00:23:15] also, Mr. President stated
[00:23:19] that we have intervened
[00:23:22] as much as possible. He expressed his gratitude to
[00:23:26] all military personnel, both TNI, Police,
[00:23:30] including all components involved
[00:23:33] there, because the achievement has become even more
[00:23:36] maximal. We estimate that it is only around
[00:23:39] 690 hectares, and this is continuously
[00:23:43] being pursued, including
[00:23:46] mitigation operations,
[00:23:49] including weather control by
[00:23:53] BMKG, and hopefully this will be quickly
[00:23:56] resolved. Then the second thing is that
[00:24:00] there will indeed be a national peatland and
[00:24:03] mangrove management agency.
[00:24:05] So, hopefully next week it can
[00:24:08] be inaugurated. Then he also
[00:24:11] conveyed that prevention must be
[00:24:14] precise, and then this must be mitigated
[00:24:17] from the regional level.
[00:24:21] Even community care groups are also formed to
[00:24:24] be coordinated by Babinsa,
[00:24:28] Karang Taruna, and
[00:24:31] local governments that are integrated so that
[00:24:35] handling is not sudden when the fire
[00:24:39] is already there, but before
[00:24:42] the possibilities of fire being there,
[00:24:45] prevention is carried out.
[00:24:48] Then also
[00:24:51] he also conveyed to
[00:24:54] conduct massive campaigns about
[00:24:57] prevention.
[00:25:00] Yes, we can also see that not only humans
[00:25:04] are affected by these forest fires,
[00:25:08] but also many animals and protected wildlife are
[00:25:12] affected, one of them being orangutans, right, Mr. Ogi,
[00:25:15] if we look. Well, Mr. Ogi, Indonesia and a number of ASEAN
[00:25:19] countries have a cooperation framework regarding
[00:25:23] how the cross-border haze
[00:25:26] pollution can be overcome, right? Well, if Mr.
[00:25:30] Ogi sees how effective this regional cooperation instrument
[00:25:34] is, can it be implemented well,
[00:25:37] and what still needs to be strengthened so that it doesn't
[00:25:40] just stop at diplomatic commitments, Mr.?
[00:25:43] Yes, before that, I I want to emphasize
[00:25:47] regarding the issue of diplomacy, yes, we often
[00:25:51] misunderstand diplomacy as a way
[00:25:54] out to solve a problem or issue, yes.
[00:25:58] I think diplomacy should be formed from the beginning to
[00:26:01] do it.
[00:26:06] In other words, in practice, most countries take diplomatic steps when there is
[00:26:09] already a problem, there is already a disaster. Diplomacy
[00:26:13] should be strengthened from the beginning so that the disaster does not occur. That is the first thing.
[00:26:16] The second thing is that it is true that I mentioned earlier that at the regional level
[00:26:20] itself, the ASEAN regions,
[00:26:23] ASEAN countries, including
[00:26:25] Indonesia, Singapore, the Philippines, and
[00:26:29] so on, have indeed established
[00:26:32] cooperation through the ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary
[00:26:36] Haze Pollution. The purpose is to then
[00:26:39] prevent, as well as monitor, and at the same time
[00:26:43] mitigate or deal with transboundary
[00:26:47] pollution or environmental damage problems. Well,
[00:26:50] as I said earlier, we have ratified
[00:26:54] it with our national law, Law Number 26 of 2014.
[00:26:58] But if the question then is whether the ASEAN Agreement is
[00:27:01] effective or not, first, it's like this: if we
[00:27:05] talk about the ASEAN Agreement, the ASEAN Agreement
[00:27:08] contains the rights and obligations of a country. In the ASEAN
[00:27:12] Agreement, it is indeed mandatory that countries must
[00:27:15] take or adopt important and
[00:27:19] effective steps to then not only
[00:27:21] prevent but also monitor and at the same time
[00:27:24] mitigate. That is the first thing. The second thing is that
[00:27:28] if we talk about this ASEAN Agreement, it talks about
[00:27:31] rights, yes, sometimes there are clashes of rights and obligations
[00:27:35] that then in practice
[00:27:38] they clash with each other. Let's talk about
[00:27:41] this: if in international law, especially in
[00:27:44] international environmental law, there is a principle called the no
[00:27:48] harm principle, which is also then included
[00:27:51] in the ASEAN
[00:27:54] Agreement in Article 3 paragraph 1, it divides
[00:27:58] between the rights and obligations of a country. Countries have
[00:28:01] the right to manage their territory,
[00:28:05] manage their environment, manage their natural resources, but there is an obligation
[00:28:09] in it that the obligation is to then use
[00:28:12] its territory carefully and also responsibly. Well,
[00:28:16] this principle also obliges countries to
[00:28:20] then prevent all
[00:28:23] activities or actions that occur within
[00:28:26] the jurisdiction of its country that can cause environmental damage,
[00:28:30] environmental pollution, air pollution, and also other actions that can
[00:28:34] harm other countries. This means that in terms of
[00:28:37] the legal instrument of the ASEAN Agreement, I think it is already good because it already
[00:28:41] provides an obligation for countries to prevent such things. But in
[00:28:44] practice, indeed, we need to realize that this ASEAN
[00:28:48] Agreement does not provide fines
[00:28:51] and sanctions when the obligation is violated. In other words,
[00:28:55] when problems arise between countries that
[00:28:58] are parties to the ASEAN Agreement, then
[00:29:02] Article 27 of the ASEAN Agreement provides a mechanism
[00:29:05] for resolution, which is through consolidation and negotiation.
[00:29:08] Well, I think this is what our country, Indonesia, needs to promote
[00:29:12] in overcoming the problem of forest and land fires. Moreover,
[00:29:16] the haze has reached neighboring countries, meaning
[00:29:19] that transboundary haze pollution has already occurred.
[00:29:23] Well, we, once again, need to then encourage
[00:29:27] what I mentioned earlier, encourage coordination and cooperation
[00:29:30] between countries
[00:29:32] that are parties to the ASEAN Agreement
[00:29:36] to then jointly, I think,
[00:29:40] help solve this problem.
[00:29:43] If I highlighted earlier the statement made
[00:29:46] by the Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs, he said that there were already
[00:29:50] mechanisms for mitigation. I think it's not
[00:29:53] broad enough, because we are not
[00:29:57] in a situation today where the impact is so
[00:30:00] widespread, it has already reached the airspace
[00:30:04] of other countries, so I think not
[00:30:07] only do we need to involve national instruments,
[00:30:11] but international instruments also need to be involved. External parties also
[00:30:14] need to then be involved. Well,
[00:30:17] I think we also need to encourage
[00:30:21] the government to then not only utilize the existing instruments
[00:30:25] domestically but also then involve the participation of
[00:30:28] interested parties in this, like that. Okay.
[00:30:32] To Mas Hidayat, Mas Hidayat, how can the government
[00:30:36] ensure that the handling of forest and land fires does not only focus on
[00:30:39] extinguishing them, as Mas Ogi also said, but also
[00:30:42] prevents repeated fires every year,
[00:30:44] like that.
[00:30:47] Yes, thank you. Let me explain earlier
[00:30:49] regarding AATHP first, regarding how
[00:30:53] actually in 2020 until 2024,
[00:30:56] the designation of strengthening regional commitments and
[00:31:01] between regions. ASEAN has the ASEAN Haze
[00:31:04] Monitoring System version 2.0. Mas Ogi also mentioned
[00:31:09] at the beginning that this ASEAN
[00:31:12] Agreement diplomacy covers three things: prevention,
[00:31:16] monitoring, and mitigation, and emergency response. Then, the