TVRI — broadcast
20261012 153000 UTC
289 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] crisis, let's say at the beginning with
[00:00:03] the pandemic, people in Romania and not only in Romania, but also in the rest of Europe
[00:00:06] and the rest of the world had to face situations
[00:00:10] they had never encountered before, and
[00:00:12] then the depreciation,
[00:00:15] for example, of money, inflation,
[00:00:18] the rising cost of living, all these were felt, and
[00:00:22] the uncertainty about what will follow,
[00:00:26] plus a political class that was very
[00:00:29] dis... disappointing, let's say for many, because
[00:00:33] that's it, that's what we discovered and why
[00:00:36] they captured him, they discovered him on TikTok, Georgescu, who spoke in some way,
[00:00:40] that he spoke about God, that I don't know what. Simion has a different
[00:00:44] type of discourse than Georgescu and he succeeded, behold,
[00:00:48] more than Georgescu, I would give too much credit or
[00:00:51] too much importance to Georgescu's profile.
[00:00:54] The idea is that
[00:00:56] the budget deficit to people, without being fiercely, without...
[00:01:00] perhaps believing all the nonsense, to express myself
[00:01:03] less elegantly, said by a
[00:01:06] politician at some point, they actually wanted to slap some
[00:01:10] people, the politicians from the Romanian
[00:01:13] political mainstream, whom they consider guilty of the bad situation they are in.
[00:01:17] They did that, but that brought for
[00:01:21] another part, for another component of Romanian society, it
[00:01:24] brought what you call the fear of Călin Georgescu and
[00:01:28] you talk about a deep fear,
[00:01:32] suddenly appeared and you say something fascinating, you say
[00:01:36] at some point. Many of, in quotes,
[00:01:39] his thoughts initially amused the public.
[00:01:42] Those who saw Georgescu's eventual election as a
[00:01:46] danger, adapted to the stressful situation created
[00:01:49] by the sovereignist shock, making
[00:01:52] fun of their misfortune, an adaptation mechanism, probably typically
[00:01:56] Romanian. Well,
[00:01:59] probably. And others, because here we would discuss a lot if we
[00:02:02] discussed a lot whether we put it or not
[00:02:05] typically, exactly, it was a concession I made to my
[00:02:09] colleagues,
[00:02:11] yes, but I think it was a coping mechanism through which many
[00:02:15] managed to cope with a very great stress, and then from the discussions
[00:02:19] with those I interviewed already in February, I started
[00:02:22] interviews with the middle class, I discovered
[00:02:26] what they feared, and most of them feared that we were turning towards
[00:02:30] an authoritarian regime, that we were losing democracy, that we were losing
[00:02:33] security, that the rapprochement with Russia, which
[00:02:37] he denied, at least, he denied it and even
[00:02:40] he, he let it be suggested that it would be something
[00:02:44] serious, it would bring to our security as
[00:02:48] a state and as a society, all these have and the loss
[00:02:51] of economic power, because the isolation, the isolationism that
[00:02:55] Georgescu was talking about, made many think that they would
[00:02:59] lose their jobs, the cost of living
[00:03:02] would increase even more, investors would avoid Romania because
[00:03:06] it is a politically unstable country, and then all
[00:03:09] these were accounted for in people's
[00:03:13] minds, but this fear was not again an individual
[00:03:17] thing, we said social fear there, because
[00:03:20] that's how it happens, people talk about
[00:03:23] their fears, about their emotions, and they end up having
[00:03:27] the same representations after all. So this was also
[00:03:31] justified, as Filip was saying earlier,
[00:03:34] the others we met, for example, in the countryside, did not see
[00:03:38] this, this danger to such a great extent, I asked some of them, but
[00:03:42] weren't you afraid that Georgescu, if he had
[00:03:44] won, a form of enthusiasm in a way, some of
[00:03:48] them, but I repeat, many hadn't even known him before, hadn't known him before,
[00:03:52] but as they saw him, his appearances on television
[00:03:55] helped increase his support. Alina, Filip, in
[00:03:58] this situation.
[00:04:01] the hope of some or that little bit
[00:04:04] of joy or, I'll say hope, the hope
[00:04:08] of some in a redeemer radically opposes
[00:04:12] the fear of others towards this
[00:04:16] redeemer, which turns into a deep
[00:04:19] social fracture, I see you like
[00:04:22] this idea of fracture that we are constantly trying to
[00:04:25] overcome, it must be overcome, but now when we look
[00:04:28] around, it exists. to overcome and of course, with one research, you don't
[00:04:32] make a spring, so we need some, we need
[00:04:36] some measures, but I was thinking that if we
[00:04:40] coalition. Only the PSD reacted look, I'll go back to my idea, that if we look at the causes, then maybe it won't be
[00:04:44] necessary, because this desire for a redeemer or
[00:04:48] this hope that a person can solve
[00:04:51] something or even a party, it is
[00:04:54] installed in a society in a certain
[00:04:57] crisis context, meaning social crises. political
[00:05:00] economic, wars produce
[00:05:04] this, I don't know, desire, psychologists have studied it better
[00:05:07] than us, where this need of people comes
[00:05:11] from, but not of individual people, but of a
[00:05:15] social body, to seek a savior, well,
[00:05:18] it comes from the crisis situation, and then action must be taken upon this situation,
[00:05:22] rectified somehow and rectified with people in mind,
[00:05:25] because what we say in the book and we even criticize the
[00:05:28] current governors, in fact we
[00:05:31] criticize them because we wrote, we did the research
[00:05:34] after the change and
[00:05:37] the parliamentary elections of 2024, we
[00:05:40] say this: look at the situation of other countries in
[00:05:44] Europe, where extremist, radical, anti-system
[00:05:48] parties have gained ground in recent
[00:05:50] years, they gained ground, especially after 2008, after
[00:05:54] the crisis that hit economically, financially, the Western
[00:05:58] world and then the rest, after
[00:06:00] 2008 and in the conditions where the austerity
[00:06:03] measures taken by governments to save
[00:06:08] reduce spending, affected especially the vulnerable,
[00:06:21] there are many people who feel that the burden
[00:06:24] of repairing situations is only on their shoulders
[00:06:28] and they see, again, they make a comparison and this comparison is not
[00:06:32] likely to necessarily create resentments,
[00:06:35] a horrible comparison when you look at
[00:06:38] the VAT collection rate in Romania and
[00:06:41] the fact that many people declare this
[00:06:45] calmly everywhere, and those people who
[00:06:49] suffer terribly because of this economic
[00:06:52] pressure, well, okay, and what stops you from solving this
[00:06:55] problem? They pay VAT, you increase it for food
[00:06:59] and for books and for absolutely everything,
[00:07:02] yes, they increased it and they pay it, but that money doesn't
[00:07:05] reach the state treasury, which is even more
[00:07:08] that, and not only us, that there are also.
[00:07:13] we also wrote and we have a chapter at the end of
[00:07:16] our publication, in which
[00:07:20] we show what happened in other countries in the West and East
[00:07:23] of Europe, that these measures are not necessarily the best
[00:07:27] and that people if if they feel
[00:07:30] uprooted or dislocated and
[00:07:34] outside of a control over
[00:07:36] their own destiny, then they are even more receptive to
[00:07:39] propaganda, but the solution is not to... combat
[00:07:43] the propaganda that exists, yes, with
[00:07:45] other propaganda, meaning propaganda in the end will keep you
[00:07:49] hungry, when you're in government, I was
[00:07:52] thinking, I remembered a friend who lived for a few
[00:07:56] years in Vietnam, in communist Vietnam, and she told
[00:08:00] us that there, on their public television, the only one that existed,
[00:08:03] probably, there were only songs and good cheer, the Vietnamese
[00:08:07] didn't necessarily bring good things, but at least the
[00:08:10] official show was of a nature to create the impression that things were good,
[00:08:14] I don't think we can, I mean, I don't think a solution for us is not
[00:08:18] to talk about things, to pretend they don't exist, to not
[00:08:22] know at your TV station, let's
[00:08:26] say, as an example, we need to put our fingers
[00:08:29] on the wound, the people we talked to really put it
[00:08:33] there many times, they told us, they told us in their
[00:08:36] own words, what we theorized under the concept of social
[00:08:39] roots, that they told us about the fact that... their salary is
[00:08:43] not enough, they having a normal working schedule of eight hours
[00:08:47] or even more, doing tasks, for example, that were not necessarily
[00:08:51] in their job description, but anyway, if the employer asked,
[00:08:54] they do it because they know how, a salary that no longer allows them to
[00:08:58] send their children to school, to give them a starting
[00:09:02] point in life, according to the tradition of Romanian
[00:09:06] families, not that you help the young person to
[00:09:09] settle down, you here talked about people with low incomes.
[00:09:13] and about people with middle incomes, but you also talked
[00:09:16] to small local entrepreneurs
[00:09:19] in the areas where you did the research, people
[00:09:23] who expressed their deep frustration with
[00:09:26] social inequality, with inequality of opportunity, that's
[00:09:30] right, meaning we identified
[00:09:32] in some a picture of very small things,
[00:09:36] we often talk about big phenomena, but these are people who wanted to
[00:09:40] expand a store, yes.
[00:09:43] to feed a school, to get a contract to feed a
[00:09:46] school, you make credible the idea that through your own effort, not that this
[00:09:50] is the dominant discourse, no, we have to say the word
[00:09:53] neoliberalism, this is it, this is the moral of the current economy,
[00:09:57] that if you invest, if you are serious, if you stick to it, if
[00:10:01] you study, if you work and sometimes break your back, let's say,
[00:10:05] figuratively, at least, you will succeed, well, in this
[00:10:09] case we had a man who was running around us when he was talking to us.
[00:10:12] he served all the meals at the same time, he was both an employee and
[00:10:15] an owner, and what else could he do, he said he
[00:10:19] had five, six days a week when he served and prepared food and
[00:10:23] on the seventh day he went to get supplies,
[00:10:26] when could he have become more, to, to overcome
[00:10:30] his condition, yes, and if you don't offer such
[00:10:34] a person some, I don't know how to say, it has to be
[00:10:37] a combination, it has to be factors and materials, meaning
[00:10:41] practically to have some policies that redistribute somehow, to try to
[00:10:45] recognize, to identify these types of efforts, at least these, I
[00:10:49] would like to insist on a fact that I think those who
[00:10:52] follow us should understand, you don't say.
[00:10:55] for a second when you talk about social policies, as you
[00:10:58] are doing now, Filip, you don't do anything in the category
[00:11:02] of it's good to give people things, you never say that, that's
[00:11:06] not what you mean, surprisingly, none of our interlocutors, and we
[00:11:09] talked to very poor people, no one
[00:11:12] said: "We want social assistance to increase, we want
[00:11:16] the city hall to give us, we want the city hall to give us." Some said yes, indeed,
[00:11:20] maybe the mayor favors some more than others when
[00:11:23] he gives them... for example firewood for the winter, but there are
[00:11:26] compatriots who often say we should be given, I don't know, we didn't hear
[00:11:30] that, and we talked to over 50, we talked to over 50 people, you know what
[00:11:34] they wanted, they wanted well-paid jobs, locally if
[00:11:38] possible, that's it and from here
[00:11:41] a certain trace of regret for other times
[00:11:45] in which, of course, there is, I also encountered nostalgia for
[00:11:48] communism and Georgescu's discourse who said yes, okay, we will
[00:11:51] bring, we will restart the factories, yes, meaning yes, when
[00:11:55] you had a CAP and you had a small enterprise that collapsed, I'm not saying those should
[00:11:59] have continued, but they were replaced by nothing, on the other hand, it must be
[00:12:02] that it would be honest on our part, we must also
[00:12:05] remember the small local entrepreneurs, those
[00:12:08] who say it is extremely difficult, although
[00:12:11] you pay decently or relatively decently, to
[00:12:15] find people willing to come and do something, there is also
[00:12:19] this other side of the coin, we are currently doing another
[00:12:22] research, we are right in the middle of new research. about
[00:12:26] Romania, a destination country for immigrants from Southeast Asia, it is
[00:12:29] called Dreamland,
[00:12:32] we are trying to promote it and because we want to talk to as many
[00:12:35] employers as possible and understand their perspective as well.
[00:12:39] For now, we are in the phase of collecting interviews with immigrants and
[00:12:42] they come to Romania and see, for example, that it is a country
[00:12:46] where they live better than in their own, but they are paid most
[00:12:50] often, with minimum wage and with a very high workload,
[00:12:53] illegal in fact.
[00:12:56] unfortunately, Romanian employers, I can say that, I'm not
[00:13:00] afraid, prefer to pay very
[00:13:03] poorly, if they paid higher salaries, probably then
[00:13:07] the temptation of Romanians to go abroad seasonally to work in
[00:13:10] agriculture in other countries would be
[00:13:13] lower, the intensity of work abroad is very high, you can't
[00:13:17] sustain it indefinitely, meaning you sustain it at 20, 30, 35, but when
[00:13:20] you get close to 40, 45, maybe a job
[00:13:23] paid less. less would be acceptable for these
[00:13:27] people, meaning no, we are not asking
[00:13:30] for absurd things, but anyway, what Alina also said and
[00:13:34] somehow I would also insist on this idea, we should
[00:13:37] know that there is a reality, as the
[00:13:40] English say, complicated social decay, which
[00:13:44] we with formulas like "people don't want to work", "you can't find", don't
[00:13:48] solve it, not like that, purely and simply, not like that, we have to say
[00:13:51] it honestly, let's try to understand, let's do. a
[00:13:55] series of extensive research, to see how people live, after all, how
[00:13:59] they earn a living, because the way they earn a living is also the way this society
[00:14:03] holds together after all, I don't think these studies
[00:14:07] are absolutely necessary, you say this very often and you
[00:14:10] also do it, yes, good, it's a good example, as I said,
[00:14:14] a flower, I don't think it should, I think we
[00:14:17] should formulate a conclusion now,
[00:14:21] a research that leads us in a very good direction,
[00:14:25] this lesson is that no one gains anything,
[00:14:28] on the contrary, neither by anathematizing these
[00:14:32] voters, nor by anathematizing the idea of
[00:14:35] sovereignism, because that's not what it's about, but it's about
[00:14:38] what happens very close to our skin, about the conditions in which
[00:14:42] we live, about our labor relations, about
[00:14:46] our dignity relations in society, the deep
[00:14:50] causes are there and you demonstrate this
[00:14:53] and. all this spectacular surface, in
[00:14:57] the worst sense of the term, that some are
[00:15:00] toothless and primitive, others are an arrogant
[00:15:04] and bloated elite
[00:15:07] and, how to say, old in evil, all
[00:15:11] this foam of image is something that
[00:15:13] sends us astray, as they say in Romanian, not seeing
[00:15:17] the real causes of what is happening here, thank
[00:15:20] you very much for this study and good luck with what you
[00:15:24] have to do.
[00:15:33] sovereignism in Romania, why do people vote for extremist politicians.
[00:29:32] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main news edition of
[00:29:35] the day.
[00:29:38] The designated prime minister proposes a six-month pact to pro-European
[00:29:41] parties for the support of the future government. So far, only
[00:29:45] small parliamentary groups have
[00:29:47] said yes. Russia hit Ukraine's energy
[00:29:50] infrastructure even after Donald Trump announced an energy
[00:29:54] armistice between Moscow and Kyiv. Ukrainians respected
[00:29:57] the White House's proposal.
[00:30:00] More supporters of Donald Trump distance themselves from the White House leader
[00:30:04] ahead of the November elections. This is also happening in traditionally
[00:30:08] Republican states.
[00:30:12] And here, the largest Orthodox pilgrimage included a
[00:30:15] procession through the streets of Iași. Tens of thousands of believers greeted
[00:30:19] the holy relics of Saint Parascheva and Saint Paisie carried on
[00:30:23] the shoulders of
[00:30:23] priests.
[00:30:32] a six-month political agreement for the support of the government, not just a
[00:30:36] vote for investiture, is the proposal that the designated prime minister made
[00:30:39] to the parties of the former ruling
[00:30:43] favorably because it practically responds to the condition it
[00:30:46] announced from the start, a parliamentary majority with PNL and
[00:30:50] UDMR. The liberals, however, remain consistent and exclude any alliance with
[00:30:53] the social democrats, as do the USR leaders.