TVRI — broadcast
20261012 183000 UTC
269 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] I don't see this discussion at the moment,
[00:00:03] to be very explicit, I don't
[00:00:06] see, at the moment we are speaking, a dialogue partner for
[00:00:09] PSD? There are projects in parliament that have
[00:00:13] been voted for by Aur and PNL
[00:00:17] and PSD, a complex discussion, I start from a
[00:00:21] very clear premise that at the moment we need to have a government of
[00:00:24] zero priority, and in politics you have to have discussions
[00:00:28] with everyone, that doesn't automatically mean that you've come to agree, you can
[00:00:31] discuss, to conclude that you don't agree with what you talked
[00:00:35] about with a person when you sat with them at the table, regardless of the party they belong to, now, so leave the door
[00:00:39] open to this dialogue with it's about such a thing, now we have
[00:00:42] a nomination in the person of Mr. Luca Niculescu, we from PSD,
[00:00:46] in the last three months we have worked on a government program together with the private sector, with specialists from
[00:00:50] universities, from companies, from civil society to deliver
[00:00:54] real solutions, with clear deadlines, with
[00:00:57] responsible parties, with evaluation methods to get Romania out of the economic
[00:01:01] crisis we are in today, if they will be included in the government program, we will be there to
[00:01:04] fight for Romania. Will AUR steal from the
[00:01:08] electorate? AUR has its electorate, PSD
[00:01:12] will never succeed in finding
[00:01:15] its electorate if it gets along well with AUR, if it fawns over it.
[00:01:19] We, in order to recover a part of our electorate, which partially went to AUR,
[00:01:22] will have to deliver what people expect, to validate ourselves through strong
[00:01:26] measures that people with medium
[00:01:30] and low incomes in our country expect, for them we govern, I don't think
[00:01:33] it would benefit us if we started or got
[00:01:37] along well with AUR, it wouldn't solve anything, we have our
[00:01:40] path, your path which does not coincide or coincides with
[00:01:43] the path of AUR, AUR
[00:01:46] AUR, PSD is PSD, and we from PSD for 35 years
[00:01:49] with with and with the mistakes we made and
[00:01:53] acknowledged, I am convinced that we represent the most serious
[00:01:57] alternative to...
[00:02:00] the saraband of populism with which parties that have never
[00:02:04] been in government come, it's true that they do well in PR campaigns in
[00:02:08] houses of 35,000 € but when they go to put them into practice they say it
[00:02:12] was just electoral
[00:02:13] marketing.
[00:02:16] These evocations in the public space that
[00:02:19] Mr. Stănescu would go to AUR or that other people from the branches would go to AUR,
[00:02:23] Stănescu said it explicitly in a message that it
[00:02:26] is not true. I am
[00:02:29] convinced that... I know Mr. Paul Stănescu and he would never
[00:02:32] do such a thing, meaning it's perhaps a mistake to say
[00:02:36] "never" in politics, but knowing
[00:02:39] Mr. Stănescu, I'm convinced he won't do such a thing. Are you
[00:02:42] worried about the Georgescu phenomenon, do you think those supporters are also from
[00:02:46] you? I am convinced that whoever had to vote for the
[00:02:50] Social Democratic Party voted for it, whoever had to vote for Mr. Georgescu voted with
[00:02:54] him. Do you believe that? But those votes are
[00:02:56] not, as it is evoked,
[00:03:00] but you know that those vote transfers
[00:03:03] to George Simion from certain PSD branches were asked by Mr.
[00:03:07] Georgescu. But don't you
[00:03:11] worry about this phenomenon, Călin Georgescu?
[00:03:15] I think it should worry any responsible politician, given
[00:03:18] that that man, obviously, in a very transparent campaign
[00:03:22] with zero expenses, managed in the course of three
[00:03:26] days to be number eight in the world with about 400 million reaches.
[00:03:30] on TikTok, obviously for free, there appeared such a love
[00:03:34] of algorithms for Mr. Călin Georgescu from nowhere. Obviously,
[00:03:38] it is a phenomenon that sometimes
[00:03:41] shows, as a sociological impact, how
[00:03:44] easily algorithms can influence the outcome
[00:03:48] of elections. At the same time, the fact
[00:03:51] that you claim that you have
[00:03:54] maximum transparency and spend
[00:03:58] 0 lei in a campaign and
[00:04:02] then such a campaign, any
[00:04:05] serious online marketing company can show
[00:04:09] with figures that it costs millions of euros, now I don't
[00:04:13] think those money came from nowhere. Well, Mr. Ivana, former
[00:04:16] Minister of Energy, can you explain to Romanians simply
[00:04:19] why prices exploded, even though Romania
[00:04:22] has an energy mix? Prices exploded in Romania, they
[00:04:26] doubled from 2022 until
[00:04:29] last year. For two very simple reasons: Romania
[00:04:32] chose, no, or the Romanian government five
[00:04:36] years ago, chose for Romania to
[00:04:39] have the highest decarbonization target in the entire European
[00:04:43] Union, to close its power plants and coal mines by 2025,
[00:04:47] December 31st, a thing I postponed as Minister of
[00:04:49] distanced itself, Sweden Energy, while Germany and Poland chose to do this
[00:04:53] until 2040, respectively
[00:04:57] Green leaf, lake 2050, and Romania through this extremely flawed policy. for Romania's interest
[00:05:01] has gone from a country that exports energy to a country
[00:05:04] dependent on energy imports, and this week we
[00:05:07] reached a maximum of 3600 MW
[00:05:10] imports at prices.
[00:05:13] four or five times higher than the average in our
[00:05:16] country, and the bill will be paid not by the Minister
[00:05:19] of Energy, but by Romanians, and what is the solution?
[00:05:23] The solution is a very clear one: more storage, and for this reason, while I was
[00:05:27] minister, I opened two financings for
[00:05:29] storage for our country and two, more
[00:05:33] electricity production, and here we had a very
[00:05:36] consistent debate related to Cernavodă and the
[00:05:40] SMR project from Doicești, but also. about Mintia, which this
[00:05:44] autumn will enter production and will produce somewhere around 700 to 1700
[00:05:48] MW. Since we are on this topic,
[00:05:51] I would like to discuss your presence at the table with Ambassador
[00:05:55] Kimberly Gilfoyle. Of course , yes, and have you recovered after this
[00:05:59] failure with the signing of the agreement regarding American gas?
[00:06:02] One second, I don't understand the question about recovering. First of all, did you have a
[00:06:05] failure? Two, with, two, with the failure? To be very clear,
[00:06:09] because we have time and I will explain this. very, very
[00:06:12] explicit subject. In 2014,
[00:06:15] when the first aggression
[00:06:18] of the Russian Federation in Ukraine, in the Crimean
[00:06:21] peninsula, the European Commission and
[00:06:24] the American establishment decided that there was a need for a new
[00:06:28] alternative to the gas coming from the Russian Federation, gas that has been used
[00:06:32] by the Russian Federation for decades to politically force
[00:06:36] through which Romania committed
[00:06:38] Two, respectively in 2022 after the other illegitimate aggression
[00:06:42] of the Russian Federation against Ukraine, the European Commission with Mrs.
[00:06:46] President Ursula von der Leyen signed an agreement with the United
[00:06:49] States of America to supply liquefied gas to Europe and reduce
[00:06:52] dependence on Russia.
[00:06:54] Three, in November last year, when I had the Social Democratic Party Congress
[00:06:58] in Athens, where I was a candidate, the Deputy Prime Minister of Romania, Mr.
[00:07:02] Cătălin Predoiu, State Secretary Cristian Bușoi and Finance Minister Alexandru
[00:07:06] Nazare signed together with Transgaz and Nova Powerenguez a
[00:07:10] memorandum through which, together with. nine states from across the Central
[00:07:14] and Eastern European region,
[00:07:17] to a 90-day deadline to analyze whether it is in the country's
[00:07:20] interest to be part of this
[00:07:24] natural gas transport project
[00:07:27] coming from Greece, for the entire Central and Eastern European region or
[00:07:31] not. The moment I received that agreement later, because
[00:07:34] I was not present at its signing as I was at the Social Democratic Party
[00:07:38] Congress, I had a deadline assumed by
[00:07:42] Romania with the United States of America, within 90 days to
[00:07:46] say if we are interested in this project, if we are not interested in this project
[00:07:49] or in what we are interested in this project, and the entire
[00:07:52] desperate campaign carried out by
[00:07:54] certain
[00:07:57] political circles and here I will say directly progressive ones to
[00:08:01] try to inoculate that expensive tariffs for natural
[00:08:04] gas were discussed that should be clearer, did you request
[00:08:08] a negotiation mandate? Of course I requested a mandate, I requested a negotiation mandate.
[00:08:14] I requested, I requested a negotiation mandate, because it's an aspect, it's
[00:08:17] an aspect, if, if you allow me to tell you explicitly what
[00:08:21] I wrote in that, given that we are talking about
[00:08:25] an investment that positions Romania both from an energy
[00:08:29] point of view and from a security point of view, I requested a
[00:08:33] complex mandate made by the Ministry of Energy, which we are responsible for
[00:08:36] ensuring that it is produced in the market and that we have diversification, two, the Ministry of National
[00:08:40] Defense, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
[00:08:42] the Ministry of Internal Affairs, SRI, SIE, because we are talking
[00:08:46] about Romania, and this approach with America must be a
[00:08:49] holistic one, and why did this project block
[00:08:53] yours, it didn't even receive the mandate, it didn't even get to
[00:08:57] discussions regarding prices, I haven't had an
[00:09:00] explanation that I consider credible and for this reason I requested in writing
[00:09:03] that, in my capacity as minister, to the Prime Minister
[00:09:07] of Romania, and today that the Ambassador's activity is being
[00:09:11] analyzed.
[00:09:42] The price of natural gas in Europe at TTF
[00:09:46] in Vienna is 70 €.
[00:09:49] In America it is 10 €. Brought
[00:09:53] liquefied and brought to Europe, it reaches a maximum of 30 €. But I repeat,
[00:09:57] Romania has a unique chance through the Neptun Deep project. If
[00:10:01] we really want to be relevant, let's not just think about extracting
[00:10:04] some gas from the ground and selling it further, but let's make an energy
[00:10:07] strategy for the next 25 years in which Romania brings added value and uses Romanian
[00:10:11] gas. the petrochemical
[00:10:13] industry in Romania
[00:10:17] has enough gas, so why do we still need these
[00:10:21] to not continue to put pressure on Romania for
[00:10:24] these. gases from our country to be bought by our neighbors, perhaps at a
[00:10:28] better price, and which in two
[00:10:31] or 10 years might not be
[00:10:34] enough for us anymore. This
[00:10:37] project, I'll give you just one example from my point of view for Central and Eastern Europe,
[00:10:41] that project would have meant that Romania would be the main energy hub that would
[00:10:45] earn hundreds of millions of dollars just from natural gas transit fees and
[00:10:49] that Romania would have had the tap, I say it very graphically, the gas tap that
[00:10:53] goes to Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, Slovakia and
[00:10:57] Serbia. At the moment, only from what
[00:10:59] Romgaz extracts, meaning 4 billion which you can somehow say
[00:11:03] you have a majority stake from the Romanian state. 2.5
[00:11:07] billion consumes Mintia, which starts its activity this winter and 1.5
[00:11:10] billion
[00:11:14] cubic meters of natural gas consumes Azomureș, meaning
[00:11:18] all of Romgaz's production, hypothetically speaking, would be covered by two
[00:11:21] new large consumers, because I have two more topics.
[00:11:25] important, how do you evaluate
[00:11:28] this relationship between Romania and the United States with this
[00:11:31] incident, in which you were somehow on
[00:11:34] track? I want to explain this topic
[00:11:38] explicitly. In my capacity as Minister of Energy, I have
[00:11:41] meetings with my counterparts, with ambassadors
[00:11:45] from the USA to Japan, South Korea, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan,
[00:11:49] Germany, France, the strategic partnership between two states is not made
[00:11:52] with the name of a politician
[00:11:55] or an ambassador, it is made between states,
[00:11:59] regardless of options, friendships or any other
[00:12:02] personal aspects. And
[00:12:05] at the moment I believe that Romania should have an even stronger partnership with the United States of
[00:12:09] America where we have an extremely
[00:12:12] important economic area in energy, in nuclear energy, in natural
[00:12:16] gas, because at the moment we need to be
[00:12:20] extremely relevant on the Washington,
[00:12:23] Brussels, Bucharest axis. major
[00:12:28] now as we speak, because Donald Trump announced
[00:12:32] that agreement for massive diesel deliveries with
[00:12:35] Vladimir Putin for the American market and the international
[00:12:38] market, the term massive is not 30,000
[00:12:42] tons immediately, 50,000 in a few
[00:12:45] days and another million tons, Romania consumes 6-7 million
[00:12:49] tons of diesel per year, which is a third of Romania's consumption.
[00:12:53] geopolitical consequences.
[00:13:01] I believe that in everything that happens in the Black Sea, Romania should be an
[00:13:04] important player on the Washington
[00:13:08] Bucharest Moscow axis and not find out about it from TV, I hope I haven't found out from
[00:13:11] TV overall the subjects
[00:13:13] and it's not yet an agreement, it was a telephone discussion that was
[00:13:17] reported by Donald Trump as such,
[00:13:21] it was announced by Donald Trump as such and main.
[00:13:55] done, which
[00:13:57] in our case, to produce more petroleum products on our country's
[00:14:01] territory and automatically have better prices, meaning I have nothing to reproach
[00:14:04] in this partnership, I think we should be more pragmatic and more
[00:14:07] active in
[00:14:11] our interests, yes, but the financing of the Russian
[00:14:13] war machine and what that vertical corridor project would have
[00:14:19] we're not talking about a corridor in principle, Romania's position as a
[00:14:23] key player in the region would have meant that American
[00:14:27] gas would have reached the Central and Southeast region to the detriment of Russian gas. Well, but did you
[00:14:30] hear any position from Romania regarding this
[00:14:33] agreement between Trump and Putin? At the moment I think the Ministry of Foreign Affairs would be the one to
[00:14:37] present an official position, I am no longer in the executive official
[00:14:41] position. Is PSD interested in this topic with
[00:14:45] major geopolitical implications? So the Social Democratic
[00:14:48] Party in its history, the party that negotiated Romania's integration into
[00:14:52] NATO, into the European Union and recently when he was. Prime Minister Marcel
[00:14:55] Ciolacu, Romania's integration into the Schengen
[00:14:58] Area, so it is more than interested and is the one who delivers, not just makes
[00:15:02] wish lists on Facebook. What conclusions should we
[00:15:05] draw after this discussion in
[00:15:09] which Romania currently has no position, Germany
[00:15:14] distanced itself, Finland distanced itself, many European
[00:15:18] countries speak of profound
[00:15:22] disappointment, is this a commercial,
[00:15:25] electoral agreement with
[00:15:27] geopolitical effects, don't you think this is also a key
[00:15:31] topic for Romania beyond the blockage between PSD, PNL and whatever else
[00:15:34] you're doing there in the internal crisis. extremely
[00:15:37] important for Romania on all political,
[00:15:40] diplomatic channels to have contacts with the great chancelleries of the world, especially on
[00:15:44] strategic portfolios such as energy, the supply
[00:15:48] of fuel in this context of the conflict in the Middle East,
[00:15:51] because an impact on the price and
[00:15:54] on the supply chain can bring negative
[00:15:57] effects on the entire economy, and at the moment
[00:16:00] a priority from my point of view
[00:16:04] extremely important, regardless of how the new government will be configured.
[00:16:07] for Romania to have a very clear
[00:16:10] positioning of the agenda, don't
[00:16:13] speak in the future, it doesn't exist in the present, this
[00:16:17] topic is in the present, I still with limited powers have an
[00:16:20] interim government of Romania, but it is still the government
[00:16:23] of Romania which should Thank you very much, Mr. Ivan, for
[00:16:27] participating in free dialogues,
[00:16:30] thank you very much for being with
[00:16:32] us, I await you for free dialogues next
[00:16:36] Monday at 8 PM.