Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:13It's 6pm in London. This is The
00:00:15World Today with Maryam Moshiri new
00:00:18new strikes hit two refineries deep
00:00:20deep inside Russia as a wave of Ukrainian
00:00:23Ukrainian drones target the country. country. Iran says a deal with Oman
00:00:26Oman on the Strait of Hormuz is in
00:00:29in its final stages. The English
00:00:32English FA withdraw support for embattled embattled Fifa president Gianni Infantino,
00:00:36Infantino, as Uefa says Europe's Europe's World Cup boycott may still
00:00:38still go ahead. Also coming up on
00:00:42on The World Today, Meta becomes becomes the latest firm to say one
00:00:45one of its AI models hacked another
00:00:48another company.
00:00:59Hello and welcome to The World
00:01:02Today on BBC News. Ukraine has launched
00:01:04launched a series of strikes deep
00:01:07deep into Russia, including an attack attack on one of the country's largest
00:01:10largest oil facilities, the Slovnaft Slovnaft refinery has the capacity
00:01:14capacity to produce up to 300,000
00:01:17300,000 barrels of oil a day, and and has been repeatedly targeted
00:01:21targeted by Ukraine. Yaroslavl governor
00:01:23governor says drones had been intercepted, intercepted, but falling debris sparked
00:01:27sparked fires and damaged the refinery
00:01:29refinery storage tanks. Well, video video shared on social media showed
00:01:33showed explosions and two columns columns of smoke rising over the
00:01:36the city. Around 700km from the Ukrainian
00:01:39Ukrainian border. Four people are are reported to have been injured.
00:01:42injured. The regional governor says says it's the largest ever attack
00:01:45attack by enemy drones. Well, Ukraine's Ukraine's president says the attacks
00:01:49attacks there and on the Bashneft
00:01:51Bashneft Navale refinery, around around 1300km from Ukraine, were
00:01:55were aimed at limiting oil revenues, revenues, which he says fund the
00:01:58the Kremlin's war effort. The Russian
00:02:00Russian military says it's intercepted
00:02:03intercepted more than 600,000 Ukrainian Ukrainian drones across the country
00:02:06country overnight. Meanwhile, at at least 11 people have been killed
00:02:09killed and many more injured in Russian
00:02:11Russian attacks across Ukraine, including including this drone strike on a
00:02:14a rail station in Lozova, the southern
00:02:17southern city of Kherson has reported reported a total blackout, while
00:02:20while Russia says it's targeting targeting fuel, energy and transport
00:02:24transport facilities. Well, let's let's speak to John Foreman, who
00:02:26who previously served as the UK defence defence attache to Moscow and to
00:02:30to Kyiv. Thanks so much for joining joining us on The World Today. Just
00:02:33Just talk me through what you make make of the latest escalation between
00:02:36between the two sides. Well, hello,
00:02:39hello, Mariam, I think this is a a continuation of the strategy both
00:02:42both sides have been using for the the last couple of years is to try
00:02:45try and strike at each other's infrastructure infrastructure in the deep areas,
00:02:49areas, IE away from the battlefield. battlefield. This is because the
00:02:52the battlefield itself has largely largely remained unchanged for 2
00:02:552 or 3 years. So I think both sides sides are trying to gain an advantage
00:02:58advantage by trying to raise the
00:03:01the cost to their opponent, in the the hope that the other side will
00:03:04will change course. And that hope hope that the other side will change
00:03:07change course. Clearly, so far has
00:03:10has been a futile hope. How is that that feeding into the way both sides
00:03:14sides are proceeding with this
00:03:18war? Yes. I mean, I think raising raising the costs, conducting in
00:03:19in a language, a deep campaign takes
00:03:22takes time and takes many years. years. We've seen effects inside inside Russia, as you're saying,
00:03:26saying, reducing oil revenues and
00:03:27and also raising costs of oil and
00:03:30and making it scarce for Russians Russians bring that war home to Russians
00:03:33Russians in return. The Russians Russians are striking energy sites,
00:03:37sites, water facilities distribution
00:03:39distribution sites, ports to reduce
00:03:44reduce Ukraine's economic potential. potential. I think the key factor
00:03:47factor here is the impending winter winter and the impending elections
00:03:50elections inside Russia. For Russia Russia knows that winter is coming
00:03:53coming for Ukraine, it's going to to be exceptionally difficult again. again. So I think Russia is trying
00:03:57trying to gain a momentum and advantage advantage before the winter comes.
00:04:00comes. In return, Ukrainians are are trying to bring home the war
00:04:03war to Russians ahead of the parliamentary parliamentary elections at the end end of September. Inside Russia.
00:04:07Russia. And what about the US.? And
00:04:10And in terms of the negotiating team team there and that kind of effort
00:04:14effort to move forward with some some sort of deal, where do you see
00:04:17see that? Well, a peace has been
00:04:21been moribund, I think, for a number number of months because frankly,
00:04:25frankly, the approach that the Trump Trump administration took last year
00:04:27year was of trying to get a deal deal was chaotic. It led absolutely
00:04:30absolutely nowhere. Trump gave a
00:04:33a summit in Alaska to Putin, and and in return he got absolutely nothing.
00:04:37nothing. So I would welcome a resumption resumption of US engagement in the
00:04:40the peace process if there is a peace peace process. But unfortunately, unfortunately, the United States
00:04:44States in particular, Trump is distracted distracted by the war in Iran and
00:04:47and trying to rebuild Washington, Washington, DC he doesn't seem particularly particularly engaged on the issue
00:04:51issue of Ukraine. And I think without without significant US engagement
00:04:55engagement and US coercion, particularly particularly of Russia, there is
00:04:58is little chance of bringing a peace peace deal, even if Mr Witkoff and
00:05:02and his Mr Kushner go to Kyiv. OK. OK. John Foreman, great to talk to
00:05:05to you. Thank you. Well, we spoke
00:05:09spoke about land attacks, but Russia Russia and Ukraine have also stepped
00:05:11stepped up their attacks in the Black Black Sea. Russia has been targeting
00:05:15targeting ships using this corridor, corridor, which is supposed to allow allow international ships to bring
00:05:19bring goods safely in and out of of Ukraine. Ukraine has been launching
00:05:22launching its own attacks on ships ships here in the Sea of Azov and
00:05:26and trying to cut off all supplies supplies to Russian occupied Crimea.
00:05:30Crimea. Our correspondent Paul Adams Adams was granted rare access to
00:05:33to Ukraine's navy in the Black Sea
00:05:35Sea on the condition he doesn't reveal
00:05:37reveal their precise location. We're
00:05:41We're going on patrol with the Ukrainian
00:05:44Ukrainian navy out into waters made made increasingly dangerous by Russian
00:05:47Russian attacks. Rare access to a
00:05:49a unit facing constant danger in in a part of the country where a
00:05:53a drone or ballistic missile can
00:05:55can arrive with little warning. Yeah,
00:05:58Yeah, everyone is focused on alert. alert. They fire their guns every
00:06:02every day. This morning it looks
00:06:04looks deceptively calm with its guns, guns, its netting and some of the
00:06:08the other equipment on board. This This vessel can look after itself
00:06:11itself more or less. But what it
00:06:13it can't do is to stop Russia attacking
00:06:15attacking civilian ships coming in
00:06:18in and out of Ukraine's ports. Those Those attacks are increasing and
00:06:21and it's a major problem. There's
00:06:23There's a war out at sea Russia and
00:06:27and Ukraine hitting each other's other's ships, hundreds of them.
00:06:30them. For the past month, the images
00:06:32images have been pouring in. Every
00:06:35Every day we have to rescue crews crews and take measures to prevent
00:06:38prevent these attacks and reduce reduce their number. We're doing
00:06:41doing everything we possibly can. can. Ukraine is one of the world's
00:06:45world's largest grain exporters. exporters. Before the war, when these
00:06:48these pictures were taken, Odesa's
00:06:50Odesa's ports helped feed the world.
00:06:53world. The country's grain exporters exporters are worried the summer
00:06:56summer harvest is in full swing. swing. Russia's attacks coming at
00:07:00at the worst possible time. I would
00:07:02would say that we already have lost
00:07:05lost the ability to deliver to global
00:07:08global consumer. Around half 1 million
00:07:12million or 700,000 metric tonnes tonnes of Ukrainian grains and oilseeds.
00:07:14oilseeds. The war at sea is raging,
00:07:16raging, some of it out over the horizon,
00:07:18horizon, some of it right here along along the coast. Ukraine and Russia
00:07:22Russia are looking to exert maximum maximum economic pressure on each
00:07:26each other. For those who live and
00:07:28and work here, life is becoming increasingly
00:07:31increasingly dangerous. Svetlana Svetlana works in Odesa's port. She's
00:07:34She's been limping for the past year year ever since a Russian missile
00:07:39missile exploded nearby, killing killing two of her colleagues. The
00:07:41The last few weeks, she says, have
00:07:44have been grim. Oh. Watching low
00:07:48low morale. It's very difficult.
00:07:50difficult. A lot of sirens, a lot
00:07:52lot of drones, a lot of hits. And
00:07:55And for morale, it's even more difficult.
00:07:58difficult. People are very tense.
00:08:00tense. What can I say? Look at my
00:08:04my hands. For all its dangers, this
00:08:09this is summer in Odesa. Ukrainians
00:08:10Ukrainians have flocked to the beach.
00:08:15beach. Mostly ignoring the sirens sirens and showing only mild interest.
00:08:19interest. Earlier this week, when
00:08:20when a Russian drone washed ashore.
00:08:24ashore. At the other end of the Black
00:08:25Black Sea. On the same day. Seven
00:08:30Seven Russians were killed when an an intercepted Ukrainian drone fell
00:08:34fell on their beach back near Odesa. Odesa. We go looking for the site
00:08:38site of an explosion we heard earlier.
00:08:41earlier. We find 83-year-old Andrei Andrei Dudek in the shattered ruins
00:08:44ruins of his house and garden. It's It's been just five hours since a
00:08:48a jet powered drone interrupted his
00:08:50his afternoon nap. Somehow he escaped
00:08:53escaped without a scratch. You think
00:08:56think that you are the accidental
00:08:59accidental victim of Russia's attacks
00:09:01attacks on the ports? Absolutely.
00:09:04Absolutely. He says. I won't forget
00:09:07forget this. This war on ships and
00:09:09and ports has many casual victims
00:09:11victims sailors, dock workers or or people simply unlucky enough to
00:09:15to live or work nearby. Paul, BBC
00:09:19BBC News Odesa. Now there are still
00:09:25still question marks over the future
00:09:28future of Gianni Infantino as the
00:09:29the boss of Fifa fights to keep his
00:09:32his job. Now the English Football Football Association, the English
00:09:36English FA, has today officially officially withdrawn its support
00:09:39support for Mr Infantino. There was was uproar over his plan to sell
00:09:43sell a stake in the World Cup to to private investors. Well, that
00:09:46that idea was, of course, scrapped.
00:09:48scrapped. We know that. And since
00:09:50since then Infantino has apologised
00:09:53apologised and called a meeting of of representatives in Morocco as
00:09:56as well. But many, including Europe's
00:10:00Europe's governing body Uefa, remain remain unhappy with the way everything
00:10:03everything was dealt with and indeed
00:10:05indeed the plan itself from Gianni
00:10:07Gianni Infantino. In fact, in a statement statement it said Uefa made it abundantly
00:10:11abundantly clear that it has lost
00:10:12lost confidence in Gianni Infantino Infantino presidency and that position
00:10:16position holds. Well, our sports sports editor, Dan Roan joins me
00:10:20me now. And, Dan, the pressure building
00:10:23building on Gianni Infantino now. now. Yes it is. I think he may well
00:10:27well have hoped perhaps that that that attempt at clearing the air
00:10:30air in Morocco yesterday when he he gathered his hierarchy in Rabat,
00:10:34Rabat, very much friendly territory territory for him. It's one of the
00:10:37the countries that's come out in in support. And interestingly, it's
00:10:39it's where he hopes to be re-elected re-elected for a fourth term next
00:10:42next year. It's where the next Fifa Fifa Congress is due to take place
00:10:46place in March, may have helped him him draw a line under this saga,
00:10:50saga, but Uefa have proven that that's that's not the case today. By renewing
00:10:54renewing this threat of a boycott boycott of Fifa competitions now,
00:10:57now, yes, the World Cup has only only just happened, but there are are competitions quite regularly
00:11:01regularly and the next one is in in just a few weeks' time. It's the the women's T20 World Cup. It's due
00:11:05due to take place in Poland. Several
00:11:08Several European nations are participating, participating, including England.
00:11:11England. Will Uefa have the resolve resolve to actually go through with
00:11:13with that threat if they don't get get the assurances that they're looking looking for? Remember, they've said
00:11:17said that they're not satisfied that
00:11:21that the possibility of another proposal proposal to sell off stakes in, in
00:11:24in World Cups and other competitions competitions to private investors
00:11:27investors won't come to pass again. again. So there is some potential
00:11:30potential there that they do get get what they're looking for. But
00:11:33But if not, then they may well go go ahead. And that runs the risk
00:11:36risk I think for Uefa of them being being more isolated because there'll
00:11:40there'll be some who don't agree agree with that tactic of denying denying young players the opportunity
00:11:44opportunity to play in a competition competition of that sort, to try
00:11:47try and unseat a president. I think
00:11:49think Uefa in a little bit of a dilemma dilemma here. They'll have hoped hoped that the pressure that's been
00:11:53been applied in the last few days days would have made Infantino consider
00:11:56consider his position and step aside. aside. He's made clear now that he's
00:11:58he's not minded to do that. And so so it may well be they have to now
00:12:02now either wait until an election election next March or try and get
00:12:04get the support around the world world required to either have an
00:12:08an emergency meeting of the Council Council or of the entire Congress.
00:12:11Congress. But the numbers at this this point don't seem to stack up.
00:12:14up. And I think that's why Uefa are
00:12:17are still offering up those kind kind of threats, because they don't
00:12:20don't feel that they have the global global support required to go down
00:12:24down those avenues. And as if to to reinforce that Conmebol, the South
00:12:27South American Confederation, today today issued a statement saying that that it was pretty clear from what
00:12:31what they said that they don't believe believe that there should be any
00:12:33any more pressure applied to Infantino Infantino to quit. What they would
00:12:36would like is for the election to to take place and for the democratic democratic process to decide who
00:12:40who will lead Fifa going forward.
00:12:42forward. Dan, thank you. Well, much much of Infantino's support comes
00:12:46comes from football associations associations in Africa. Are they they still backing their man? Well,
00:12:50Well, let's speak to Moroccan sports sports journalist Amin El Amri. I
00:12:53I mean it's great to talk to you. you. Thanks for joining us. What
00:12:56What are you hearing about the power power struggle within those upper
00:12:59upper echelons of Fifa? Hi. Cheers.
00:13:03Cheers. Thanks for having me. Well,
00:13:04Well, there's certainly a different
00:13:08different tiers of support or lack
00:13:11lack of towards Infantino, especially
00:13:12especially in Africa, in Africa I
00:13:15I can say that all members or all
00:13:19all heads of. I'm sorry. What? No,
00:13:25No, no you're fine. You keep going.
00:13:26going. I can hear you. Keep
00:13:30going. All right. Fantastic. So like like I said, there's a couple of
00:13:33of members of the Fifa Council which
00:13:36which also are members of the CAF
00:13:38CAF Exco that are backing Infantino
00:13:41Infantino no matter the situation.
00:13:43situation. But there are also some some members of CAF top executives
00:13:47executives that are taking their
00:13:49their time, namely Patrice Motsepe,
00:13:52Motsepe, the head of CAF. That didn't
00:13:56didn't go public in support of not
00:13:58not supporting Infantino but rather
00:14:01rather called for an emergency Reunion
00:14:03Reunion of the Exco today by by by
00:14:07by video call. Other than that, I
00:14:11I think Uefa is seen in Africa as
00:14:14as a little bit patronising and trying
00:14:18trying to be, you know, the white
00:14:21white knight astride the white horse horse trying to save football. And
00:14:25And I don't think that's the best
00:14:27best approach. Uefa is already gathering
00:14:30gathering all of the power in football, football, all of the finances and
00:14:34and the approach should be different. different. Let's not forget that
00:14:37that Gianni Infantino is kind of
00:14:40of the creator of Uefa, which he
00:14:43he was Secretary General before becoming
00:14:46becoming Fifa president. So moving moving forward, how much support
00:14:49support do you think there is for for him in countries like Morocco,
00:14:52Morocco, in other African nations? nations? And how much do you think think he's going to end up having
00:14:56having to rely on that support? Well,
00:14:59Well, I think he's still assessing
00:15:03assessing his the people that will
00:15:04will support him. They will back
00:15:07back him up in the next Fifa Congress
00:15:11Congress during the elections. We
00:15:12We all know that in by November 18th,
00:15:1718th, everybody that wants to be
00:15:20be candidates should apply by November November 18th. And I don't think
00:15:24think Uefa has got a really credible
00:15:26credible candidate to go against against Infantino because he's got
00:15:29got so much good relationships with
00:15:34with many, many African countries
00:15:36countries or African let alone the
00:15:40the South American Comibol Confederation
00:15:44Confederation Confederation that that backs him up no matter what.
00:15:47what. I think the struggle between
00:15:50between Uefa and Infantino will be
00:15:51be played in the AFC in the Asian
00:15:54Asian Confederation. I think Africa
00:15:56Africa overall will vote for Infantino. Infantino. OK. I mean good to talk
00:15:59talk to you. Thank you so much for
00:16:01for joining us on The World Today.
00:16:04Today. Right. Let's take a short short break now because still to
00:16:07to come on The World Today a new new language for Star Wars. We'll
00:16:11We'll hear from the latest voice voice of C-3PO as the movie is dubbed
00:16:15dubbed into Welsh for the first time time ever around the
00:17:18line. Join us for the climate question
00:17:22question on BBC News. Pakistan says
00:17:30says it hopes a potential agreement agreement between Iran and Oman over
00:17:34over the Strait of Hormuz could get get Washington and Tehran to return
00:17:38return to the negotiating table to to end the war. Iran has claimed
00:17:41claimed a deal for a new route through through the shipping route through
00:17:44through the Strait of Hormuz has has almost been agreed with Oman,
00:17:47Oman, which sits on the other side side of the vital waterway. The Iranian
00:17:51Iranian Foreign ministry has said said any agreement would depend on
00:17:54on certain third parties not interfering. interfering. Well, the US hasn't
00:17:58hasn't yet responded to Iran's comments. comments. The strait has been effectively
00:18:02effectively closed since the war war began in February. Any deal to
00:18:05to reopen it may start to ease oil
00:18:08oil supply issues and economic pressures,
00:18:11pressures, but it could also solidify solidify Iranian control of that
00:18:14that key route. Well, let's speak speak to Jen Gavito, a senior adviser
00:18:18adviser at the Cohen Group and former former senior State Department official. official. Jen, great to have you
00:18:22you on the show. Thank you so much much for joining us. And just talk
00:18:24talk me first of all about where where we are now because, you know,
00:18:28know, we've seen ourselves close close to a deal. We've seen ourselves
00:18:31ourselves pulling back from a deal.
00:18:33deal. How do you view the latest latest so far between Iran and Oman?
00:18:37Oman? How hopeful are you that this this time we could be as close as
00:18:41as we've been to a deal between the
00:18:43the US and Iran? Thanks for having
00:18:46having me back. And I think that that in any agreement like this,
00:18:50this, the final details are the stickiest. stickiest. We had heard earlier this
00:18:54this week that there was hope that that that deal would be signed on
00:18:57on Wednesday. Obviously that didn't didn't happen. But I do think all
00:19:00all signs are still pointing towards
00:19:03towards some sort of bilateral agreement
00:19:04agreement between Oman and Iran that
00:19:08that would reopen the waterway. What's What's interesting, I think about
00:19:11about this is that it would be, as as I note, a bilateral agreement
00:19:15agreement between Iran and Oman.
00:19:16Oman. We've heard the Trump administration
00:19:19administration profess that we, the the United States, are close to a
00:19:23a deal. Iran has denied, however, however, that it's negotiating with
00:19:26with the US at this point. And so
00:19:28so I think what we're likely to see see is the announcement of the deal
00:19:31deal with Oman and then the GCC potentially
00:19:34potentially and the United States
00:19:36States more or less endorsing it,
00:19:39it, giving it legitimacy before it it goes into effect. I mean, both
00:19:43both sides need to come out of this this looking like they've, you know,
00:19:47know, looking like it's a win for for them. Right? So in your experience experience in the State Department,
00:19:50Department, what do you think each each side would need to secure from
00:19:53from the other side to get their.
00:19:56their. So first of all, trust is
00:19:59is at an absolute low point at the the moment, particularly given that
00:20:03that there had been, in fact, an an MOU that was signed and both sides
00:20:07sides feel strongly that the other other violated it. That makes it
00:20:10it that much harder to get back into
00:20:12into a place of negotiations. But
00:20:14But I think what Iran will be looking
00:20:16looking for is first and foremost
00:20:18foremost a continued strategic control
00:20:21control of the Strait of Hormuz. Hormuz. That's obviously something something that they did not have
00:20:25have six months ago, but we've seen
00:20:27seen them prioritise more and more more as negotiations have gone on.
00:20:31on. So I think for them that is the the red line. But that's. Anathema,
00:20:34Anathema, isn't it, to the US.? Absolutely.
00:20:36Absolutely. I mean this has major major implications for freedom of
00:20:40of navigation around the world, not not just for the United States, but
00:20:44but it also represents, if true, true, a major strategic loss for
00:20:48for the US essentially this war is
00:20:50is going to come down to Iran controlling
00:20:53controlling a waterway that was opened
00:20:55opened six months ago and very little
00:20:58little else to show despite, again, again, six months of conflict. So
00:21:01So for the US., this is both problematic.
00:21:03problematic. And yet I think inevitable inevitable because it's increasingly
00:21:07increasingly clear that President President Trump wants out of this
00:21:10this war. OK. It's so interesting, interesting, Jen. It's great to get get your analysis. Thank you very
00:21:14very much for joining us on The World World Today. I just want to remind
00:21:18remind you that shortly after half half past the hour, we'll have our
00:21:22our daily round up of all the latest latest developments in the Middle
00:21:25Middle East that's coming up in The The Iran War Today. So do stay with
00:21:28with us here on BBC News for that
00:21:30that daily update. A US Senate committee
00:21:33committee has voted to hold the former former White House Chief Medical
00:21:37Medical Adviser Anthony Fauci in in contempt after he refused to answer
00:21:40answer questions about his handling handling of the Covid pandemic. The
00:21:44The infectious disease specialist specialist invoked his constitutional
00:21:47constitutional right to silence last last week when he was grilled by
00:21:51by senators about the pandemic and and whether he covered up its origin.
00:21:54origin. It's not clear if the vote vote to hold him in contempt will
00:21:56will lead to criminal prosecution. prosecution. Former President Joe
00:21:59Joe Biden gave Mr Fauci a pre-emptive pre-emptive pardon on his last day
00:22:03day in office in 2025, protecting
00:22:05protecting him from federal prosecution prosecution for his actions between
00:22:09between 2014 and 2025. Fauci could, could, however, still face charges
00:22:11charges for anything after that date, date, including contempt of Congress.
00:22:15Congress. Well, let's speak to Joe Joe Moreno, a former federal prosecutor.
00:22:18prosecutor. Thanks so much for joining joining us on The World Today, Joe.
00:22:21Joe. So just talk me through. Exactly.
00:22:23Exactly. Let's go back to why Mr
00:22:25Mr Fauci kept his silence during
00:22:28during that hearing and whether that that was the right thing to do, given
00:22:31given what's happened now. Sure, Sure, Miriam. Good to be with you.
00:22:34you. Well, you teed it up perfectly, perfectly, right? Because there's
00:22:38there's this pardon that begins and
00:22:41and goes backward. January 19th, 19th, 2025. Back to basically cover
00:22:45cover everything that Doctor Fauci Fauci did when he was the President's
00:22:48President's medical adviser and basically basically head of the coronavirus
00:22:51coronavirus task force. Right. So So one would say, what does he have
00:22:54have to invoke the Fifth Amendment Amendment about, which protects you
00:22:58you against criminal prosecution? prosecution? He would say, look,
00:23:01look, Republicans, Rand Paul in particular, particular, and now even a number
00:23:05number of states have been calling calling for my prosecution. So I'm
00:23:08I'm not going to walk into effectively effectively a trap and incriminate
00:23:12incriminate myself. So I can see see as an American citizen, I would
00:23:15would love to know what Doctor Fauci Fauci knows that we haven't yet learned
00:23:18learned in public. But as a defence defence lawyer, I'd be the first
00:23:21first one to say, look, there's no no reason to help the government
00:23:25government prosecute you. So to be be safe, don't say anything at all.
00:23:29all. But he's done that, right? That's That's OK. But what I don't understand
00:23:32understand is why is he being held held in contempt? Surely the Fifth
00:23:35Fifth Amendment will offer him some some level of protection though.
00:23:38though. Right? So there's a couple couple of different moving pieces
00:23:42pieces here, right? Normally a Senate Senate committee would vote on a
00:23:46a contempt finding. Then it would would go to the full Senate. The The Senate would have to vote on
00:23:50on it and get 60 votes because of of the filibuster rule. Then the
00:23:53the Senate would refer it to the the Justice Department and the Justice
00:23:56Justice Department would decide whether whether or not there's a legitimate
00:23:59legitimate criminal case to bring. bring. It's rare, but it has happened
00:24:02happened a few a handful of times times in the last few decades. So
00:24:06So the number one thing, if you cross
00:24:09cross all of these procedural hurdles, hurdles, then it would come down
00:24:12down to was this a legitimate assertion assertion of the Fifth Amendment?
00:24:15Amendment? Doctor Fauci would say, say, yes, I do not have a pardon
00:24:19pardon or some kind of immunity following
00:24:22following the date of January 19th
00:24:2419th of last year. Everyone's calling calling for my prosecution and there's
00:24:27there's no way I want to entrap myself.
00:24:30myself. The prosecution, if they they brought one, would say, look,
00:24:33look, you have this broad pardon. pardon. All we're asking you to do
00:24:37do today is to tell the truth. And And the pardon does not protect you
00:24:40you from perjuring yourself. So it it would be a vigorous legal battle
00:24:44battle in the courts if it even gets gets out of the Senate, which at
00:24:47at this point I'd say is pretty unlikely. unlikely. OK, so it looks like it's
00:24:50it's a pretty long way to go before before then. Joe Moreno, we're out out of time. But thank you so much
00:24:54much for joining us and explaining explaining that so clearly as well. well. Thank you. Thanks, Miriam.
00:24:58Miriam. The sister of the murdered murdered British exchange student
00:25:01student Meredith Kercher, has appealed
00:25:03appealed to Amanda Knox not to go go ahead with a comedy show at the
00:25:07the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Amanda
00:25:10Amanda Knox was convicted but later
00:25:12later acquitted of the murder in in Italy in 2007. Miss Kercher's
00:25:15Kercher's sister says the proposed proposed stand up show turns the
00:25:18the rape and murder of Meredith into into entertainment. Emma Vardy has
00:25:22has more and a warning. Her report
00:25:23report contains flashing images.
00:25:27images. Characterised in court as as a cold, manipulative femme fatale.
00:25:31fatale. For many years Amanda Knox Knox was portrayed to the world as
00:25:35as a murderer convicted along with
00:25:37with her former boyfriend 21-year-old
00:25:4121-year-old Meredith Kercher was was found dead in the apartment they
00:25:44they shared she had been stabbed
00:25:46stabbed in the throat. Amanda Knox
00:25:49Knox spent four years in prison, prison, but after years of appeals
00:25:53appeals and Retrials, Italy's highest highest court, finally acquitted
00:25:55acquitted her. I'm so grateful to
00:25:57to have my life back. After years
00:26:00years rebuilding her identity through through documentaries, books and
00:26:04and podcasts, she's now bringing bringing a stand up comedy show to
00:26:06to the Edinburgh Fringe. My friends friends and family are actually really
00:26:10really nervous for me, despite my my spotless record in the court of
00:26:13of public opinion, I bombed in a
00:26:16a courtroom and they sent me to prison, prison, so I'm just saying I'd rather
00:26:19rather be heckled than
00:26:23shackled. But Meredith's family have have told the BBC their pain is being
00:26:26being turned into entertainment. I so appreciate comedy
00:26:28comedy is there to push the boundaries
00:26:32boundaries and you know it very much
00:26:35much normalises and trivialises violence violence against women and Meredith
00:26:38Meredith in particular. And it shouldn't shouldn't be given a platform for
00:26:41for that specific topic. They've They've backed a petition calling
00:26:44calling for the show to be cancelled, cancelled, but Amanda Knox says the
00:26:48the show honours Meredith's memory memory rather than making light of
00:26:51of it. I'm not the first person to
00:26:53to invent using comedy to talk about
00:26:56about traumatic and difficult material, material, and I think that, again,
00:26:59again, I would hope that people will will honestly engage with my work
00:27:03work and recognise, like the deep deep heart and sensitivity that I
00:27:06I bring to it as I tell a very personal personal story through a comedic
00:27:10comedic lens. The show, which is
00:27:12is said to be sold out, has raised raised questions for the fringe over
00:27:15over someone's right to tell their their own story and the impact of
00:27:19of that on others. Around nearly
00:27:23nearly two decades on, it's another another chapter for Amanda Knox in
00:27:26in a story she spent years trying
00:27:28trying to tell. Emma Vardy, BBC News.
00:27:34News. Rihanna could be back making making music. According to her partner partner ASAP Rocky. Rihanna, whose
00:27:37whose real name is Robin Fenty, hasn't
00:27:40hasn't released a full album since
00:27:43since 2016, while ASAP Rocky said said on the Jason Lee podcast she's
00:27:46she's in the studio right now, adding, adding, she's cooking. We don't have
00:27:50have any details, but the pair have have said they wouldn't collaborate
00:27:53collaborate on a double album. Interesting.
00:27:56Interesting. Maybe a comeback for for Rihanna after a break and a comeback
00:27:59comeback for me after a break as as well. With The Iran War Today
00:28:02Today coming up in a few minutes' minutes' time. Stay with us
00:29:35into next week, hitting the 50 Celsius
00:29:37Celsius mark on Tuesday.