Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00the audiences, why does it generate
00:00:03the rights of so resentment among concessionaires, among
00:00:07commentators, of the electronic media,
00:00:11generating a process of
00:00:16and that we have always defended, the part of defending the rights of the audiences and
00:00:20why have they articulated in these
00:00:23recent days a very clear campaign
00:00:26to say the same thing that
00:00:28and monopolistic interests of has always been said when it comes to regulating
00:00:31rights in terms of communication that they
00:00:34try to exercise censorship,
00:00:38control, violations of freedom of expression,
00:00:42etc., this is a debate that I think matters to all
00:00:46citizens, because it is another equation of
00:00:50communication, it is not the part between the media and the
00:00:53government, but actually between the media and their audiences
00:00:56and precisely to be able
00:01:00to understand the whole historical
00:01:03process and the content of the guidelines that
00:01:07regulatory law is from 2014, in are under consultation, today we have a great
00:01:10guest, a friend of many years,
00:01:13politician,
00:01:15eh, what we journalist, and
00:01:16from currently senator, Senator Javier Coral, thank you very much Javier,
00:01:20editorialize and editorialize on thank you Genaro for the invitation with great pleasure,
00:01:24where can we start, Javier, this
00:01:28concept of audience rights is
00:01:30relatively new, right? And it is incorporated for
00:01:34the first time in the constitution in this reform
00:01:37of
00:01:40the framework of the Pact for Mexico of 2013 which was
00:01:43the reform to the sixth constitutional,
00:01:46eh, why at that moment was it important to mention
00:01:50this issue? It is relatively new for our
00:01:54telecommunications services country, for our country, not for some other Latin American countries,
00:01:58much less for Europe. Eh, particularly Germany and
00:02:02France, who incorporated it into their legislations
00:02:0538 and 42 years ago, I say that the
00:02:09audiovisual services law of
00:02:12France is a pioneer in guaranteeing audience rights,
00:02:16eh, the United States incorporated it,
00:02:19then Chile, Argentina, Mexico arrived a little
00:02:23late to the issue, but it arrived,
00:02:26exact, because as you well said, it was taken advantage of.
00:02:30the agreement called Pact for Mexico to
00:02:34incorporate in the reform
00:02:37eh of the sixth and seventh constitutional
00:02:40the different elements or components of the
00:02:44media ecosystem eh to regulate the rights not only of the
00:02:46concessionaires of the
00:02:50media workers, that's right, but of the
00:02:53essential subject of communication, the final recipient of
00:02:57communication who is the citizen, that's right. audiences who are their
00:03:01public there was incorporated a series
00:03:05of principles eh of a long
00:03:08for him, so that he would be promoted in struggle, it must be said as it is, exact, a long
00:03:11social and political struggle of academic institutions,
00:03:15social activists, human rights activists, especially
00:03:19re-established, communication
00:03:20re-filled, as they researchers eh to
00:03:23guarantee the right to information, not only that
00:03:26is the great umbrella, let's say, which I would say is the great great
00:03:30concept in which freedom of information and freedom of
00:03:34expression are immersed,
00:03:37as constitutional rights that belong to all citizens, that's right,
00:03:41because what we have to start from is that freedom of
00:03:45expression is a right that belongs to
00:03:49of general interest, so citizens, media and
00:03:52particularly concessionaires of this country who, in addition to
00:03:56believing themselves owners of the radio spectrum eh
00:04:00of the nation and therefore believe themselves owners of a part of the
00:04:04national territory,
00:04:07remember that one of also believe that they are exclusive holders of the exercise of freedom of expression,
00:04:10exact, as if it were their property, as if it were a
00:04:12privilege only of those who have media,
00:04:15that's why the
00:04:19chamber, of reform of telecommunications and broadcasting of
00:04:21well as promoting the values of 2013 was so important, this debate
00:04:24begins there, it must be said clearly because now there is a
00:04:28debate not only false,
00:04:30but in some cases I have seen a great
00:04:34regulatory for lack of memory, a lot of pettiness, obviously because of the great political
00:04:39for the great guidelines it had bias with which advanced in the world, that's right, because it's our current political
00:04:42moment is permeated from a
00:04:45polarization and a confrontation that no longer
00:04:48distinguishes merits in the projects or in the proposals
00:04:51or in the purposes that's right,
00:04:542025, it is simply disqualified by who proposes it
00:04:58nothing that the 4T government proposes
00:05:01seems to some political actors, even
00:05:04political actors who are renouncing with this
00:05:07stance their own causes and convictions that they supported
00:05:11many years ago. rights and and and not only well to the causes that
00:05:15they promoted not only as eh subjects of
00:05:19rights but as the rights of citizens, exact,
00:05:22because that was the most important part that we defended in this debate
00:05:28the audiences of the citizens,
00:05:31so the reform of
00:05:352013 had several
00:05:37successes, one the constitutional, the
00:05:40constitutional. radically the conception of what
00:05:44radio and television are, until
00:05:47then qualified in different laws and
00:05:50legal provisions as an industrial
00:05:54activity, almost almost the state regulated a
00:05:58commercial activity, an economic activity, the
00:06:01constitution considers since
00:06:052013 broadcasting,
00:06:08radio and television and telecommunications as a public service.
00:06:13which must guarantee the entire population, it is not the
00:06:16same to regulate an activity
00:06:20of public interest an industry
00:06:23to regulate and guarantee a
00:06:26public service of general interest in addition to general interest, therefore
00:06:30the constitution incorporated
00:06:33eh very important concepts,
00:06:36developed in a new section which is
00:06:39section b of article six of the Constitution.
00:06:43the characteristics and rights that in
00:06:46terms of broadcasting and telecommunications
00:06:49citizens have as human rights, there
00:06:53it is placed as
00:06:56a duty of the state, to
00:06:59guarantee the rights of the users
00:07:03that's right, of the of
00:07:07the audiences
00:07:10eh in terms of radio. broadcasting
00:07:13that's where the bases were laid to
00:07:17prohibit misleading advertising, exactly, or
00:07:20to present misleading information which is
00:07:23advertising and propaganda, but which they present as
00:07:26news, that's where it was also
00:07:30established the basis to differentiate information from
00:07:33opinion, that's where the right of
00:07:36reply is guaranteed, because in reality the guidelines are not
00:07:40creating any new right,
00:07:42in terms of audiences, they take up the constitutional
00:07:45bases and they take up the definitions that are in the
00:07:49regulatory law, which is the law on telecommunications and
00:07:53broadcasting, and what the guidelines do is
00:07:56only generate the processes, the
00:07:59instruments, the mechanisms to
00:08:02be able to exercise those rights that the constitution
00:08:06guarantees, even that the constitution obliges the law to
00:08:09develop, it is very important if you allow me.
00:08:13to read a paragraph, I have here
00:08:16this, this constitution so
00:08:19solid, very robust, every person
00:08:22has the right to free access to plural
00:08:26and timely information, as
00:08:29well as to seek, receive and disseminate information and ideas
00:08:32of all kinds by any means of expression, this
00:08:35is, let's say, the cornerstone, that's right, where the
00:08:39rights of the audiences are based. But
00:08:42then comes, in matters of broadcasting and telecommunications,
00:08:46the State shall guarantee the population its
00:08:49integration into the information and knowledge society
00:08:53through a universal digital inclusion policy with annual and
00:08:56six-year goals. Telecommunications are public services
00:09:01the State shall guarantee that they are provided under conditions of
00:09:04competition, quality,
00:09:07plurality, universal coverage, etcetera,
00:09:10etcetera. Broadcasting is a public
00:09:13service of general interest, section three, so
00:09:16the state shall guarantee that it is provided
00:09:19under conditions of competition and quality and provides the
00:09:23benefits of culture to the entire population, preserving
00:09:26plurality and the veracity of
00:09:30information, as
00:09:33national identity contributing to the purposes
00:09:37established in article three of the Constitution.
00:09:41Section four, of the B section of article six of the
00:09:44Constitution says: The transmission of
00:09:48advertising or propaganda presented as
00:09:51journalistic or news information is prohibited,
00:09:55the conditions that must govern the
00:09:58content and the contracting of services for their
00:10:02transmission to the public shall be established, including those
00:10:05related to the responsibility of the
00:10:08concessionaires regarding the information
00:10:11transmitted on behalf of third parties. without affecting
00:10:15freedom of expression and dissemination. I read
00:10:19this and finish by pointing out a
00:10:22fact. Section six: the law
00:10:25shall establish
00:10:28telecommunications users, of audiences as well as the
00:10:31mechanisms for their protection, let's see,
00:10:34with this we have 13 years in the constitution,
00:10:37exactly, but now it turns out to be a
00:10:40novel issue, an imposition, now it is
00:10:44attributed to President Claudia Sheinbaum and the federal government, that
00:10:48they want to impose, they say, how is it possible that now they want to
00:10:51impose that information be truthful and timely and
00:10:56plural, well that's what the constitution mandates, I want to interrupt you here, yes, what
00:10:59parties approved that constitutional reform, well, it was in
00:11:03the Pact for Mexico, the telecommunications one practically all
00:11:06of us concurred, all of us, PRI, PAN,
00:11:09PRD, that I remember,
00:11:12Green, yes, eh, the PT, eh, I think that
00:11:15all parties supported the constitutional reform on
00:11:19telecommunications, then no, then there was no such
00:11:23consensus in the secondary. the one of 2014, in the one of
00:11:272014, the constitutional reform is from 2013, the
00:11:32the regulatory law
00:11:36eh well some very important things were lost
00:11:41the constitutional reform,
00:11:43particularly issues of economic competition to
00:11:47tackle or
00:11:49limit the predominance, the
00:11:52preponderance of monopolies in the. issues of both
00:11:55telecommunications and broadcasting, but what is
00:11:59certain is that great progress was made because there the rights of
00:12:03audiences were defined in the law, they were
00:12:06disaggregated, let's say, these audience
00:12:09rights, they had an
00:12:11absolute
00:12:13acceptance,
00:12:15several of the paragraphs of the
00:12:19constitution were transcribed,
00:12:21even others were developed in terms of...
00:12:25programming, audio quality, image, rights of children's
00:12:28audiences, this for the whole issue of the
00:12:31protection of children from children's
00:12:35programming, eh, in short, the rights of audiences were generated
00:12:39in the law, and the truth is
00:12:42that eh there was a full consensus
00:12:46regarding these rights which are the instruments that
00:12:49citizens have to
00:12:52also express our freedom. that is, to be able to
00:12:55exercise our freedom of expression, our right to information, how do you
00:12:59defend yourself eh against, for example, an undue
00:13:03or slanderous imputation or a slanderous insinuation, if you
00:13:07have no means, well you do it through the right of reply or
00:13:11you do it through audience rights enshrined in the
00:13:14law, this reform of
00:13:162014 eh, I must say
00:13:20that it was
00:13:23generated eh, by a long struggle that
00:13:27Mexican society gave in terms of the right to
00:13:30information and immediately the
00:13:33IFT issued some guidelines
00:13:36in 2016 that I must
00:13:40recognize some very
00:13:43good guidelines, even much broader
00:13:47than the secondary law itself, much broader
00:13:50than the current ones, for example, even than the secondary law of
00:13:54that time.
00:13:57that's right, they broke down much more, expanded much more, they had definitions of several
00:14:01issues, yes, they took care of children's
00:14:04programming issues, I could say eh, in honor of
00:14:07the truth that those guidelines eh, were very
00:14:11good, very good and can be rescued, well, the
00:14:14truth is that now what has been done with
00:14:17these guidelines is a system already eh
00:14:21hybrid, I will say between between the law and
00:14:25self-regulation, exactly, and and it is
00:14:28not wrong that it was done this way, because it is necessary to
00:14:32the great resolutions that the
00:14:35last Supreme Court of Justice of the
00:14:39Nation had, the previous one, especially the first
00:14:44the first chamber of the Supreme Court of Justice of the Nation in a presentation by Juan Luis
00:14:48González Alcántara Carranca, great
00:14:50minister,
00:14:52they resolved an amparo. direct that
00:14:56reached the
00:14:58court
00:15:00eh promoted by a civil association against the
00:15:03counter-reform of 2016 that eliminated audience rights
00:15:07of 2017 of 2017 of 2017, that is, a year after the
00:15:11ifetel, if I'm not mistaken, issues these
00:15:13guidelines the PAN and
00:15:17the PRI begin to promote in
00:15:19agreement with the television stations a counter-reform, yes, well, some from
00:15:23the PAN, because it turns out that the PAN split again on this
00:15:27issue, as when we, as happened with the Televisa law, as happened with the Televisa law, well, in
00:15:30fact they called the one of
00:15:342017 the Televisa-Doring law.
00:15:38because Doring presented the initiative, Federico Doring, a great PAN
00:15:41militant, eh, who has always been like a transmission belt for the
00:15:45interests of the chamber of the radio and television industry, of some of the concessionaires
00:15:49in congress, because they are not
00:15:52popular representatives, they are business representatives, no,
00:15:56and how it also defines the current circumstance of Mexico, no, they have
00:16:00always pushed to defend the oligopolistic
00:16:05the broadcasting industry. not to defend citizens in their
00:16:09audience rights, they removed from the
00:16:13law through a reform these
00:16:15rights and they curtailed surveillance
00:16:18powers of the federal institute of
00:16:20telecommunications
00:16:23in 2017, so as a result of that counter-reform of
00:16:262017 that precisely reacted against the
00:16:30guidelines of 2016 because this
00:16:33counter-reform, in reality the counter-reform reacts to the guidelines.
00:16:38Clear, because when they saw the guidelines and and
00:16:42they knew that they wouldn't be able to do it otherwise,
00:16:45they obviously got the will of Peña to challenge the
00:16:49guidelines, it was Peña who challenged them and then
00:16:53they said, let's see, eh we're
00:16:56going to go to tribunals for a long time, so it's better if we change the law, because
00:17:00we have transmission belts in the PAN and in the PRI, they have always
00:17:03had them, historically the chamber of the radio
00:17:06and television industry has had eh tele-benches,
00:17:09tele-bench, deputies or senators, transversal
00:17:13to many parties, that's right, even from Morena,
00:17:16so there is there in
00:17:192017 the counter-reform and and
00:17:22several associations, well, the AMDA, the AMDA
00:17:26today promoted an amparo, a strategic litigation association
00:17:29in human rights won that
00:17:33extraordinary amparo in the first chamber, yes, it's a great
00:17:36amparo. a great presentation by Juan Luis eh, because
00:17:40it considers that reform to be a setback
00:17:43in terms of freedom of
00:17:47expression, of the right to information and
00:17:50audience rights as human rights in terms of
00:17:54communication, so eh, it is a thesis that
00:17:58feeds, so to speak the action
00:18:02of unconstitutionality that then decreed the
00:18:06general nullity. of that counter-reform, but that
00:18:10decree of nullity came from an action of
00:18:14unconstitutionality that did not order the
00:18:17recovery of the infetel guidelines of 2016, so
00:18:21it remained in limbo, in fact that action of unconstitutionality the court
00:18:25resolved it in a very
00:18:28Salomonian decision eh they
00:18:32went for the form, oh okay
00:18:34and found flaws in the legislative procedure. and they
00:18:38did not want to discuss the merits of the action of
00:18:41unconstitutionality, exactly, but as a result of the flaws
00:18:45in the legislative process there was a
00:18:48general declaration of nullity of the entire reform,
00:18:51so the reform was nullified but it was no longer
00:18:58say, the articles
00:19:01that had been eh extirpated or
00:19:04reformed, right? Eh well this is
00:19:07the history of this matter, exact, eh, in
00:19:112025, the
00:19:13drainbound presents a
00:19:16reform eh to generate a new law on
00:19:19telecommunications and
00:19:21broadcasting and recovers the rights
00:19:25of audiences that were there stored in a drawer, well, nobody
00:19:29had mentioned them again, mentioned
00:19:31them, eh, it
00:19:35must be remembered that in 2025, on the verge of
00:19:38extinction, the IFT
00:19:41publishes guidelines on audience rights, the last
00:19:44IFT, eh, I think they published them on February 5,
00:19:472025, but well, between
00:19:51us,
00:19:54eh, those guidelines ended up being made by the chamber of the radio and
00:19:57television industry, very different from those that were made back then, very different from the first
00:20:01batch, let's say, of 2016, well, the chamber of the radio
00:20:04and television industry made them so much that the first
00:20:08communiqué that came out on February 5, 2025
00:20:11was a congratulation from the SIRT to the IFT
00:20:16generated because they didn't touch it with a rose petal,
00:20:20no, that is, the schedules, the
00:20:23programming, if you changed a program, you would notify in advance, nothing important,
00:20:27so they congratulated the reform of
00:20:32what it does is recover the rights of
00:20:35audiences as they were in the law of
00:20:392014 with their same
00:20:42definitions, with the same assumptions,
00:20:45yes, but it strengthens
00:20:49two very important
00:20:52issues. ethics codes and audience defender, exactly,
00:20:56which in the law the audience ombudsman remained as
00:21:00a decorative figure, without greater possibilities, but
00:21:03also the entire radio and television industry could
00:21:07have only one audience defender for all
00:21:11the radio and television concessions, more than
00:21:143 concessions with a single defender, all those affiliated with the chamber of the
00:21:18radio and television industry were satisfied with a single audience
00:21:21defender, no well, it was a mockery, a
00:21:24mockery, so all that is corrected,
00:21:27the obligation is made that for each
00:21:30eh concessionaire each broadcaster
00:21:34is appointed an audience
00:21:37defender and an
00:21:40agreement, a consensus, is generated, here we explain the contents of the
00:21:44opinion, I remember it was an interview that we did here, we did a
00:21:47very long interview where we made known everything that had been achieved
00:21:50eh, because it was improved a lot and in telecommunications
00:21:54there were also advances, well, the rights of users in telecommunications
00:21:58are registered, another big issue that is still
00:22:01another issue, now then
00:22:05have today is a false discussion, it is a
00:22:08debate with many lies, with many exaggerations,
00:22:12with many distortions, accusing of
00:22:14censorship what has been in the constitution since
00:22:182013, what many of us promoted in
00:22:212014, several even of those who are now criticizing
00:22:24writing against it, well, they are doing it with a
00:22:27lack of honesty,
00:22:31of of I say they have fallen
00:22:35into such a regrettable
00:22:37circumstance, because political bias
00:22:41is overcoming them and I say sometimes
00:22:44the sick hatred of the 4T
00:22:48eh they are no longer capable of recognizing themselves even in their own
00:22:52battles and and this is a political issue for them, it
00:22:56is an issue of disqualification at all costs to
00:22:59try to generate the idea that the president of the republic wants to
00:23:03censor, that she wants to say what is true, what is not true, because
00:23:06let's see, eh the
00:23:09guidelines,
00:23:12let's say it as it is, these are very strawberry, they are very
00:23:16light, they are very light, uh-huh, these are very strawberry, excuse
00:23:19me, Ms. Norma, this,
00:23:23but if you compare them with those of
00:23:262016, with those of 2016, forget it, let's
00:23:30see, just now before going to the break, because I think it's
00:23:34worth highlighting this, the
00:23:37big debate was differentiation
00:23:41between information and advertising, because we came
00:23:44from the Peña Nieto phenomenon, from the phenomenon of the construction
00:23:48of a candidate and a... president who had
00:23:51allocated tons of public money so that
00:23:55paid interviews would be done
00:23:58telenovelas, in entertainment programs,
00:24:00and the congress had to
00:24:04admit that that had to be corrected, no, well,
00:24:08it was corrected a long time ago, before
00:24:11before
00:24:152013, there was the great reform that
00:24:18prohibited the contracting of private
00:24:22advertising, the purchase by parties, candidate electoral
00:24:25reform, a very important political
00:24:28unification and and above all the sale of
00:24:32interviews and all that phenomenon, the marketing of
00:24:35marketing, eh, of electoral campaigns and
00:24:39advertising and everything, right? Yes, and then how
00:24:42they presented eh reports as if
00:24:45it were really newsworthy information when in reality, well,
00:24:49they were eh paid, later it was discovered in many
00:24:52investigations that were done how the complete packages were sold,
00:24:55that's why the
00:24:56constitution
00:24:59established in fraction four of article five,
00:25:02section b, the broadcast of
00:25:06advertising or propaganda presented as journalistic or
00:25:10news information is prohibited, is since 2013,
00:25:14oh, but they say that the drainbound invented it two weeks ago
00:25:17because it wants to say eh it wants
00:25:20to determine who tells the truth and who doesn't tell the truth,
00:25:24we all know that this has
00:25:28about preventing the public from being
00:25:31deceived, from being tricked, but
00:25:34furthermore, this is more important than other
00:25:37considerations, radio and
00:25:41television are public services
00:25:44granted by the
00:25:46state, these guidelines are only
00:25:50going to apply to open radio and
00:25:53television, to pay radio and television or
00:25:57as it is called restricted by satellite cable
00:26:00to programmers
00:26:03who use a
00:26:06concessioned medium to transmit independent national
00:26:09production, exactly, these are the universe
00:26:13nothing more, and why only them? Well, because
00:26:17they are concessionaires of a good that belongs to
00:26:20all of us, which is in the public domain of the nation, which is
00:26:23the radioelectric spectrum and before which the state can
00:26:26impose the conditions,
00:26:29limitations and guarantees.
00:26:32to ensure fundamental rights, human rights,
00:26:36of course, what worries them the most? Look, they are
00:26:40not so worried about
00:26:42distinguishing opinion from information, because the
00:26:46guidelines do not even oblige that in every
00:26:49comment a television host, it would be
00:26:53impractical and against all forms of programmatic
00:26:56continuity on television, to be saying now I'm going with my
00:26:59opinion, no, what the guidelines say is that before and at the end of
00:27:03that program, the public is warned
00:27:06that in that program the host
00:27:10transmits indistinctly news and personal comments
00:27:14so that they are aware, so that they
00:27:18know that television hosts
00:27:23private television and on public television with Maru Campos's interviews, well,
00:27:27there are things to have a recent example, the only thing, look,
00:27:30the P for Paid. You see that the guidelines come from the
00:27:34first guidelines, oh, from 2016, from the first
00:27:37guidelines, well, but there is a lot of
00:27:39hypocrisy, and there is a lot,
00:27:43there is a lot of pettiness, many of them who are
00:27:47talking about censorship and all that, they know where
00:27:51all these things come from, the story that comes behind, they also
00:27:54intervened, many of
00:28:53We return to public versions, we are talking with Senator Javier
00:28:56Corral, this process of debate and
00:29:00discussion about audience rights.
00:29:03We have already documented the history, the history that
00:29:06comes from a long time ago, but the most recent one is from
00:29:102013 until now, and there is an
00:29:13episode that Senator Javier Corral mentioned, which is
00:29:17the 2025 reform already
00:29:20in the current six-year term, it is a
00:29:22reform of radio broadcasting and
00:29:25telecommunications that also
00:29:28advances on many topics that were pending,
00:29:32that is, with all the topics that remained pending, let's say
00:29:34from Peña Nieto's six-year term,
00:29:38no, and that remained frozen, so to
00:29:41speak, during López Obrador's government, they remained frozen
00:29:45with López Obrador, exactly, what was the 2025
00:29:48reform? This was a reform, first, to
00:29:52adapt and adjust the new legal
00:29:56reality of the regulatory body, by disappearing the
00:29:59autonomy of the Federal Institute of
00:30:02Telecommunications in the constitution and
00:30:05considering it a decentralized body
00:30:09of the federal executive branch assigned to the Ministry of
00:30:12Innovation, yes, and Digital Agency Development, digital
00:30:16agency, eh that adaptation had to be made,
00:30:20but the President of the Republic took advantage to
00:30:24make a reinforcement and
00:30:28a strengthening of several topics particularly without touching the
00:30:30constitution. constitution, the
00:30:33reform was already
00:30:37the reform that had been made in
00:30:392024 to create the
00:30:42IFT as a decentralized body, I have to
00:30:46remember for
00:30:50intellectual and
00:30:52legislative honesty that I voted against the
00:30:56disappearance of the IFTL's autonomy, exactly, I voted against it.