Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:12had connections with
00:00:22And we don't, what we're doing poorly and we're
00:00:23and what the wife of not
00:00:26getting.
00:00:46the use of digital
00:01:03How are you, friends of Canal 14, thank you for being with us
00:01:07in a new broadcast of Ventana this Sunday, welcome.
00:01:11The recent elections in Latin
00:01:15circulated it in the assembly, America have put at stake, much more than the presidency,
00:01:18the conformation of a congress. In each process,
00:01:21recently the defense of democracy
00:01:24La Derecha and the sovereignty of our countries has been tested, given the complex
00:01:28framework orchestrated from the United States to support
00:01:32the far-right wave. Fernando Cerimedo,
00:01:35self-proclaimed digital consultant, accused of being
00:01:38a CIA collaborator, was arrested in Bolivia after allegedly
00:01:41ordering an attack against his ex-partner Nadia Beller, for knowing
00:01:45too much. This was true, because the activist and lawyer
00:01:48uncovered a whole strategy that from the United States, with
00:01:52companies and contacts in Donald Trump's MAGA group, that
00:01:56Serimedo and his allies carried out not only on social networks, but also operating to...
00:02:00favor in vote counts conservative figures who
00:02:03won elections in Honduras, Colombia, Bolivia, Chile,
00:02:07Peru and Argentina. The next
00:02:09stop of the ultraconservative strategy is Brazil
00:02:13where the Left today denounces a campaign on social
00:02:16networks to disappear their content and support
00:02:20that of the ultraconservative Flavio Bolsonaro, two weeks before
00:02:23the elections. Today we will talk exclusively with Nadia Beller
00:02:27from Bolivia about what she knows about this dirty
00:02:30war of the far-right to combat the progressive current. We begin.
00:02:35From the International Book Fair in the Zócalo
00:02:39be explained otherwise because
00:02:46that he was the magic man in
00:02:53From Washington, this strategy has been defined, which
00:02:56involves Fernando Cerimedo and high figures of the...
00:03:00conservative right to bolster the interests
00:03:03of the United States, as Donald Trump himself said, the Monroe
00:03:06Doctrine is
00:03:08in force.
00:03:11I love when I give endorsements and people win,
00:03:15but they don't
00:03:16lose.
00:03:19I guess it would be illegal. Could you
00:03:22strategy that supported Bellardo de imagine if I could say they spend millions and millions and millions of dollars a campaign? They're
00:03:27personally, I losing, and they beg me for an endorsement. I given them.
00:03:41With frank declarations bordering on cynicism, despite multiple
00:03:44accusations and criticisms, President Donald Trump has successfully
00:03:47promoted the right and far-right in several electoral processes
00:03:51in Latin America. After
00:03:54crude way they were doing the attack on lawyer Nadia Beller in Bolivia, an entire network of
00:03:57operations by her former partner Fernando Mimedo was revealed.
00:04:00He, with his companies in Washington and close contacts with Trump,
00:04:04under the umbrella of Digital Consulting, wove an entire network
00:04:07in Latin America to operate bot farms, bribe officials,
00:04:11create dirty business networks,
00:04:14almost two months since and achieve what happened: the triumph of high-ranking far-right figures
00:04:16in Latin America.
00:04:19the most difficult thing for Fernando Cerimedo, of Argentine
00:04:21as a normal declaration where nationality, was an advisor to Javier Miley himself, for whom he created
00:04:24bot campaigns that bolstered his figure. Politically,
00:04:27Trump did it. Weeks
00:04:30before the legislative elections in October 2025, Trump affirmed that he would
00:04:33not provide the loan to that country if La Libertad Avanza, Miley's
00:04:37party, did not win the legislative elections, which finally
00:04:41happened and the loan was
00:04:42granted.
00:04:46In Honduras, Trump forged a discourse of alert against communism that the then
00:04:50leftist candidate Rishi Moncada
00:04:53last Sunday, in which of the official party of Xiomara Castro would impose.
00:04:55Votes soared for Narcís Pura, who became
00:04:59president. Xiomara Castro denounced crude electoral interference
00:05:02from the United States. I condemn the
00:05:06interference of the president of the United States, Donald
00:05:09Trump.
00:05:17When he threatened the Honduran
00:05:20people
00:05:23that if they voted for a brave and patriotic
00:05:27candidate from the Libre Party, Rick
00:05:28Simóncada,
00:05:32there would be consequences.
00:05:36Those statements
00:05:39violated the most sacred principle of our
00:05:43constitution:
00:05:46sovereignty
00:05:47resides
00:05:50in the people. The then electoral counselor, Marlon
00:05:53Ochoa, linked Cerimedo, who at that time served as an advisor
00:05:57to the national party. He disseminated audios in which Cerimedo helped to
00:06:00alter the ballot boxes and stopped the recount in some regions
00:06:04with the knowledge of the armed forces. From the area where
00:06:07the votes are coming from right now is where they win. That's
00:06:11first of all. Secondly, the votes where more nationalist
00:06:15votes will enter. So there were votes from someone else, these
00:06:18were taken out, these are already arranged. The idea of
00:06:22pushing the idea of the notebook so that the entire
00:06:25ballot box or the entire
00:06:28act is not annulled. That is very
00:06:31important what we have to be moving,
00:06:34we already have the numbers, we cannot
00:06:37allow that... well, I'm saying
00:06:40that we already have
00:06:43people aligned from the armed
00:06:46forces, so no, it seems
00:06:49to me that everything is fine, we are only interested in the votes
00:06:52that are counted, if we have the votes
00:06:56and we know in which places we served
00:06:59the election, that's where the votes were entered and everyone
00:07:03at the table was talked to, what are you worried about? No,
00:07:07we don't have to be worried for a
00:07:10moment. The complaint earned him
00:07:18death threats, his dismissal, and self-exile.
00:07:21Trump supported the ultraconservative candidate, an admirer
00:07:25of dictator Augusto Pinochet, José Antonio Kast. There is a
00:07:29special commission on Cerimedo's links with Kast, which
00:07:32will determine the extent of his connections in the electoral
00:07:36process. Regarding Colombia, openly,
00:07:39the tenant... has expressed his
00:08:12support, his recognition of our victory, President
00:08:15Donald Trump told the
00:08:18truth and I thank him for telling
00:08:22the truth. Thanks to him,
00:08:25Abelardo is president of Colombia.
00:08:27And since I now
00:08:33know something, something about President
00:08:37Donald Trump
00:08:39fear he told Marco Rubio, "Take care of
00:08:42Colombia," and Marco Rubio took
00:08:45care of it. A personal friend of
00:08:48Abelardo. In Brazil, Trump has called for the
00:08:52release of Jair Bolsonaro from the sentence he is serving for attempted
00:08:56coup d'état against Lula, who from the beginning of the campaign denounced
00:09:00any attempt of foreign
00:09:01interference.
00:09:07To govern this country and I will say
00:09:09more, I will say more that it will come.
00:09:12to help them, whoever wants to, if you want to see
00:09:16Trump come, if you want to see Mil come,
00:09:19let whoever wants to come, I don't
00:09:22want help from outside, the only help I want is the
00:09:25help of the Brazilian people so that we can maintain
00:09:29this country. With information from Claudia
00:09:33Martínez Hernández, Canal
00:09:3414.
00:09:39Fernando Cerimedo, creator of La Derecha Diario, partnered with
00:09:42Javier Negre in 2024 to be part of this media outlet,
00:09:46La Derecha Diario. Javier Negre is a Spanish businessman
00:09:49who previously promoted in several programs a far-right
00:09:53narrative in favor of the United States against several figures in
00:09:56Latin America. With their partnership, both found the ideal vehicle
00:10:00to establish connections with far-right leaders in our region,
00:10:03whom they supported. Here in Mexico, Ricardo Salinas
00:10:07announced an alliance with the director of La Derecha Diario,
00:10:10Javier Negre, in January 2025. It was Negre himself who
00:10:14announced the creation of La Derecha Diario Mexico. After
00:10:17Fernando Cerimedo's arrest in August, a partner of Cerimedo,
00:10:21Javier Negre, published a video in which he distanced himself from
00:10:25his partner Cerimedo.
00:10:28In light of these revelations, President Claudia Sheinbaum assured last
00:10:31August that this network of media and bots that spreads false
00:10:35news in Latin America also operates in
00:10:38Mexico.
00:10:40Of course, it operates in Mexico. Is it linked to any US agency?
00:10:43Well, we know what is known through public statements
00:10:48this person who was a victim of attempted
00:10:52femicide said. Of course,
00:10:56they are spreading
00:10:59news about Mexico, many of which are false,
00:11:03by the way, and they are part of this scheme that
00:11:06Luisa also talked about yesterday afternoon,
00:11:11platforms and social networks to spread
00:11:15false news through the purchase of
00:11:18accounts.
00:11:21The president presented a publication from December 27th
00:11:24where it is confirmed that when Serimedo was arrested,
00:11:27he was still Javier Negre's partner in La Derecha Diario,
00:11:31despite having rejected this association. Javier Negre
00:11:34in December 2025,
00:11:36which is this celebrating with my
00:11:40partner Cerimedo,
00:11:42that is Javier
00:11:45Negre of
00:11:49Diario says celebrating with my partner Cerimedo when...
00:11:53he withdrew from his
00:11:56partnership with La Derecha Diario.
00:11:59Speaking of La Derecha Diario
00:12:01in Mexico, it supported with dissemination Ricardo Salinas
00:12:05Pliego's efforts to use the issue of access to
00:12:08medicines in an attempt to attack the federal
00:12:12government. The libertarian businessman Ricardo Salinas
00:12:15Priego carried out one of the most outstanding charity works in
00:12:19recent years, and it's no wonder. From his own pocket,
00:12:23he financed a free health fair to serve thousands
00:12:27of Mexicans in more than 13 states of
00:12:30Mexico. From Tijuana to Mérida, thousands of people
00:12:33arrived: mothers, grandparents, young people, and children.
00:12:36They were given consultations, vaccines, blood tests,
00:12:40eye exams, and most importantly, medicines, and all of it
00:12:44financed from his own pocket, all free for
00:12:47them.
00:12:49And the former president of Colombia Gustavo Petro also referred to the
00:12:53dirty internet war that underpinned the campaign of Abelardo
00:12:56de la Espriella in his country.
00:13:00of Mexico City, he affirmed that electoral fraud was consummated
00:13:04and stated that this is part of a fascist campaign on a global
00:13:07level. Until we knew who Fernando
00:13:11Cerimedo was, the elections in Colombia,
00:13:13we had no idea. Yes, we did, and there were
00:13:16the branches, the sensation for me and
00:13:19the people who accompanied me in the government that there is
00:13:23no communication.
00:13:25In my campaign, not mine, but in Iván Cepeda's, there is no
00:13:29communication. But what is there on the other
00:13:31side? 2 million bots, today we
00:13:35know, fake profiles,
00:13:38managed with artificial intelligence algorithms,
00:13:42that each bot could launch 500 messages a
00:13:46day, and all the others not identical
00:13:49so that they wouldn't notice, but similar in their
00:13:52content, and it wasn't done by human beings. We
00:13:56come this way today post-elections to say
00:13:58there was fraud, but if they won in other countries,
00:14:02with simply that, majorities
00:14:05were achieved, they managed to tie, if they tied, then
00:14:08a second phase
00:14:12not only served for the fake profile, to manipulate,
00:14:15to generate fear and lies in the
00:14:19electoral climate, now
00:14:22they know it can be permanent and that
00:14:25means paralysis and control, and that
00:14:28means fascism, and today we can talk
00:14:31clearly about a global project
00:14:33based on the manipulation
00:14:37of individuals throughout
00:14:40humanity. And this weekend, the campaign
00:14:43of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva denounced
00:14:46interference in the
00:14:49elections through alleged blockages of his content
00:14:52published on Meta's social networks such as Facebook,
00:14:55WhatsApp, and Instagram. Meta reportedly
00:14:59prevented Lula da Silva's profile from promoting
00:15:03publications in the feed of his official channels on these
00:15:06networks, and one of them suffered an interruption
00:15:10in the record of views, affecting its reach. They assured
00:15:14that before the first round
00:15:18right-winger Flavio Bolsonaro was victorious, Lula's page
00:15:21and other leftist leaders suddenly
00:15:25disappeared from Instagram's search engines. These are
00:15:28complaints that so far have been rejected by Meta. Also
00:15:32in Brazil, thousands of Brazilian students have taken to the streets
00:15:35to support Lula da Silva and reject Flavio
00:15:39Bolsonaro's candidacy. These are mobilizations that have spread
00:15:43through different cities, and also amidst reports of repression,
00:15:46threats against university students, and restrictions on these
00:15:50protests. And today, precisely, this weekend,
00:15:53these protests reached Avenida Paulista in Sao Paulo,
00:15:56where thousands of people questioned the continuity of
00:16:00the ultraconservative political project. They also opened
00:16:03a debate about the coverage of the Brazilian press, questioned
00:16:07for the little visibility these mobilizations had,
00:16:10and accusations of censorship by the president against the
00:16:14electoral justice have been added, which has been accused of making
00:16:17biased decisions against
00:16:19his candidacy.
00:16:27I think our lawyers will have to file a request for explanation to the electoral
00:16:30president, we will not accept the undue interference of the
00:16:33electoral justice in the election.
00:16:37And Bolivia deserves a separate file because it was there that
00:16:41this whole plot emerged with the attack against Nadia Abler, Fernando
00:16:45Cerimedo's ex-partner, perpetrated allegedly
00:16:47ordered by himself. It was there that Fernando Cerimedo was
00:16:51arrested. He remains in preventive detention, has four open
00:16:55cases for different charges, which are attempted
00:16:58femicide, the main criminal case for which he is serving
00:17:01180 days of preventive detention in the maximum-security prison
00:17:05of Palmasola, accused of being the intellectual
00:17:08author of the attack with three bullet impacts against Nadia
00:17:12Beller. He is also accused of family or domestic violence,
00:17:15and a previous independent complaint of attempted femicide
00:17:19initiated by the prosecutor's office for alleged psychological
00:17:22violence against Nadia Beller. Also, illicit enrichment is
00:17:26added to this, an investigation initiated by the Public Ministry
00:17:29of La Paz related to suspicious money transfers, suitcases
00:17:33of money, bot farms in the raids that have been
00:17:36carried out on his properties. And at the same time,
00:17:39the prosecutor's office of La Paz expanded the files to include
00:17:43crimes of legitimization of illicit gains, usurpation
00:17:45of functions, material falsehood, and use of
00:17:49falsified instruments. He is also accused of trafficking
00:17:52in controlled substances and covering up drug trafficking
00:17:56for alleged links of protection to irregular flights
00:17:59and drug planes in the municipality of Santana. The Attorney
00:18:03General of Bolivia, Roger Mariaca, was the one who pursued
00:18:06these causes of the political plot until recently when
00:18:10he was arrested after the US Department
00:18:12canceled his visa and accused him of acts of corruption,
00:18:16bribes, and links and facilities for drug
00:18:20trafficking. Roger Mariaca has described this arrest as an
00:18:23act of interference and political pressure given the magnitude
00:18:27of these cases he was investigating.
00:18:29The so-called Cerimedo case,
00:18:32for example, has generated
00:18:35in political circles,
00:18:39but no political pressure, national or
00:18:42international, can become an
00:18:45impediment to clarifying facts that must
00:18:48be investigated. And in his place, they put
00:18:51Jorge Armando Orioste,
00:18:54over whom public opinion weighs as to whether he will
00:18:58continue to apply the full force of the law on
00:19:01Fernando Cerimedo and this long list of
00:19:05alleged crimes, or if he will heed the government
00:19:08of Rodrigo Paz, which seeks to turn the page on this
00:19:12great political
00:19:13scandal.
00:19:19We warmly welcome from Bolivia
00:19:23Nadia Beller, Fernando Cerimedo's ex-partner,
00:19:26whom we thank very much for being with us on public
00:19:30media for Canal 14, exclusively for Ventana al Mundo.
00:19:33Thank you very much, Nadia. First of all, we would like
00:19:37to thank you for being here with us and ask you
00:19:41about your health after suffering this attack
00:19:44in previous weeks. Good evening, thank you.
00:19:47I am recovering now. It's
00:19:52the surgery I had. The fracture is still
00:19:57me to overcome because I have nerve
00:20:00damage. It is quite painful. Regarding the
00:20:03pregnancy I am carrying, I still
00:20:07don't have
00:20:10certainty whether it is developing
00:20:13well. This week I was supposed
00:20:16to have a morphological ultrasound, however
00:20:19there were threats
00:20:22from the Ministry of Government
00:20:25that a case would be built against me.
00:20:28They started to force situations that
00:20:32are not appropriate, to
00:20:34build a discursive line against me
00:20:37to attack me, to delegitimize me, to link me with
00:20:41events with which I have no relation whatsoever.
00:20:44So I couldn't even go to the doctor
00:20:48this week. How is the judicial
00:20:52case at this moment, knowing that there is
00:20:55already a prosecutor who has been changed, a prosecutor
00:20:59who apparently also
00:21:02the current president Rodrigo Paz, who aligns
00:21:06with these policies that he has changed regarding
00:21:09the judicial cases that you are filing in
00:21:13Bolivia?
00:21:16There has been no progress, on the contrary, my
00:21:20statement in the drug trafficking case
00:21:23has been suspended indefinitely, by the way.
00:21:27This very controversial situation has come to light,
00:21:30that the new prosecutor might have been
00:21:34suggested, that is, the legislative assembly
00:21:37in Bolivia is completely co-opted by a defection
00:21:41by the ruling party. Everyone obeys the
00:21:44executive, the president, and the president would have
00:21:47given them a line to elect this gentleman.
00:21:50It is not a rumor, it is not a suspicion.
00:21:54The president of the Senate himself said that
00:21:58the president of the state, Rodrigo Paz, gave him
00:22:01the name, and he
00:22:05and everyone voted for this gentleman
00:22:08Urioste. I am not going to
00:22:11talk about whether he has the capacity or not,
00:22:14meritocracy or not, but it is not acceptable
00:22:17for the Public Ministry to be submitted
00:22:20by the executive. It is not acceptable for the
00:22:24Public Ministry to be aligned with the president it has to
00:22:28investigate, because all of Serimedo's actions are linked precisely
00:22:31to the president, to the president's circle, to the president's
00:22:35family. So, the fact that he chose the new Attorney
00:22:38General to his liking and convenience leaves much to be desired regarding
00:22:42the rule of law in Bolivia. We would also like
00:22:44to ask you about what you know about the links
00:22:48between Fernando...
00:23:01the links you know of Fernando Cerimedo with Rodrigo Paz and with María
00:23:04Elena Orquidi in several matters that go beyond politics, even now
00:23:08with illicit matters such as fuel theft and other activities for
00:23:12which he is being questioned
00:23:14in court.
00:23:20The shadow president was the one who ran the government
00:23:22by a delegation of power that Rodrigo
00:23:26Paz gave him. It cannot
00:23:29all the ministers, all the directors of the state,
00:23:33answered to him. He put and removed people at his
00:23:37whim. He worked in an office next to President
00:23:40Rodrigo Paz, and all this he did
00:23:44because he had the authorization and the
00:23:47authority over all the,
00:23:50let's say, subordinates, let's call them that,
00:23:53ministers, directors, and company. He
00:23:57had them all as subordinates because he carried the representation
00:24:01and authority of Rodrigo Paz. So, in function
00:24:05of this, he did some
00:24:08irregular situations in the state. I have
00:24:11provided my cell phone so that the conversations
00:24:14can be seen, some audios where
00:24:18they were talking precisely about dealings in IPFB,
00:24:22about putting people in and taking people out, Fernando reproached
00:24:25other government operators how they were handling
00:24:29IPFB, he wanted to replace them in their
00:24:32place, they talked about them
00:24:35falling for $100,000, that whoever wants to make
00:24:38money has to do it in two, three years, not in the
00:24:44it in the name of the first lady, and that
00:24:47he was going to come in, he was going to
00:24:50put things in order and that they should leave
00:24:53it to him. Situations of that nature are
00:24:57documented in the cell phone I provided to the public
00:25:00ministry. However, I want something to be very clear:
00:25:04they already made me testify in the illicit gains legitimization
00:25:07process. They did not put it
00:25:11I could expand on what they were asking me. They did it as
00:25:15an advance of evidence and they asked me absolutely nothing
00:25:18about the first lady. So I see an eagerness to
00:25:21cover up this person or any situation that
00:25:25needs to be investigated with this person, because
00:25:28the questions were quite closed and I had no
00:25:32option to complement what they wanted to ask
00:25:35me, and they asked me absolutely nothing in relation to
00:25:39her. However, the audios are on my cell phone, the mentions
00:25:43in the chat are on my cell phone, and well, these are pieces of
00:25:46evidence that the public ministry must investigate.
00:25:50Now, regarding the case of Mexico, what information
00:25:53do you have about Fernando Cerimedo's plans to
00:25:56try to intervene in the elections in our country?
00:25:58He told me at the time
00:26:01that he was going to "blow up" the president, meaning he
00:26:05was going to participate in that campaign.
00:26:07He didn't tell me who his candidate was,
00:26:11but yes, he had a very great
00:26:14animosity towards her. He commented
00:26:17and I have stated that he
00:26:20was breaking up the partnership,
00:26:24he was selling his shares to Javier
00:26:27Negre due to a personal issue that had to do
00:26:30with the divorce he was facing, and because
00:26:34of this situation, it bothered him that
00:26:37in the confrontation that Javier Negre had with
00:26:41the president... Mexican that he is being
00:26:45involved when it can be said of him that he had nothing to
00:26:48do with those fights and those clashes they had between
00:26:52the two of them. However, he did tell me that he was going to
00:26:55participate in the Mexican elections and would have his
00:26:58candidate because they were extremely interested in removing the
00:27:01lady from the presidency, right? Eh, how do
00:27:05they, eh, how do they participate in elections? As you
00:27:09mentioned before, with distortion of the public debate,
00:27:12with cognitive frauds, with dirty
00:27:15war, buying influencers, eh,
00:27:18with their bot farms that coordinate eh
00:27:21attacks, coordinate the
00:27:25trending topic, eh, all those things that make
00:27:28that, that make it so that the...
00:27:32the public debate is distorted.
00:27:35Eh, we would like to ask you, Nadia, if there were
00:27:38contacts, you know there were contacts between Serimedo and Ricardo Salinas
00:27:42Pliego.
00:27:45Fernando spoke with many people, eh,
00:27:49I understand that they had a media network they worked
00:27:52with in Mexico. I
00:27:55can't specify the names because they are names that
00:27:59at that moment seemed very foreign to me.
00:28:02Now, now with the interviews I've heard them a little
00:28:05more, but at that moment they seemed very foreign to me, so
00:28:09individualizing them is not, not, not easy for me. Of course, and
00:28:13why did he feel so afraid of being mentioned in the
00:28:16morning, in the morning press conference of President Claudia Sheinbaum about
00:28:19all this, all this political plot? He
00:28:23felt very exposed, very exposed and
00:28:27it was like he liked to work more low
00:28:29profile in some cases, because in other cases, for example,
00:28:33he responded, he himself exposed himself in
00:28:36his work in Bolivia, in his work in Honduras,
00:28:39eh, because of the way he answered so arrogantly, so haughty, so
00:28:43audacious on Twitter, and showing off
00:28:48Latin America and so on, but specifically in the case
00:28:52of Mexico, he preferred to stay low profile,
00:28:56Mexico, in Peru, the same, in
00:28:59Chile, I don't know why, but he preferred a lower
00:29:03profile. And now asking you about these
00:29:06countries, well, there are already statements from former president
00:29:10Gustavo Petro who directly mentions that now that this case you have
00:29:13revealed is known, it has perfectly fit
00:29:17all the pieces that document the electoral fraud in
00:29:21Colombia. What do you know about the
00:29:25la Espriella to win the presidency
00:29:26presidencia
00:29:29about a material fraud, I have no
00:29:33knowledge, however, about the way they
00:29:36work, yes, eh, I heard about several
00:29:39previous meetings they had before
00:29:42the elections where they negotiated, look, I
00:29:45want something to be understood, regardless of what theory they
00:29:49follow an ideological line, they have a commercial
00:29:52situation, for example, in the case of Honduras there was a liberal
00:29:56candidate, I think it was Nasry Asfura,
00:29:58no, eh,
00:30:02he's the one who won, but there was a liberal and they destroyed
00:30:06him. They don't care about the liberal ideology, they are
00:30:09pragmatic, he, eh, Fernando Cerimedo, for example, in
00:30:12Bolivia, eh, participated in, eh,
00:30:16participated as an advisor to both a presidential
00:30:20candidate from the left, like Andrónico
00:30:22Rodríguez, an
00:30:25heir who believed himself to be a natural
00:30:28successor of Evo Morales's MAS party,
00:30:31and, in parallel, in Rodrigo Paz's. They are not interested in ideology,
00:30:35they are interested in going with whoever
00:30:38will pay them and whoever will commit later,
00:30:41if they don't pay them, with whoever will commit later to the
00:30:44government and and and the government deals with
00:30:48transnationals and so on, at their service. Eh,
00:30:51they don't care about following an ideological line, so I heard them
00:30:55several times in negotiations precisely to
00:30:59participate in