Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:02in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:00:05immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:00:09learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:00:13and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:00:16coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:00:20an informed choice.
00:00:26On this edition of the Fifth Estate...
00:00:29...we're in Edmonton, just days ahead of a crucial
00:00:32provincial referendum that risks reshaping the country;
00:00:35asking Albertans whether they want to remain
00:00:38a province of Canada.
00:00:41The only way to amend the Canadian Constitution
00:00:46is for a Canadian province
00:00:48to vote itself the hell out of Canada.
00:00:52[audience cheers]
00:00:53Let's not throw in the towel and give up on our country
00:00:57just as the battle has turned in our favour
00:00:59and victory is in sight.
00:01:02And while Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says
00:01:04she'll vote to remain in Canada,
00:01:07we're investigating how the party she leads
00:01:09has been sowing the seeds of separation for years.
00:01:12[horns honking]
00:01:14Do you believe that Premier Danielle Smith is a separatist?
00:01:17-100%. -Which is she, Rod?
00:01:21I think she's waiting to find out. [laughs]
00:01:25And what role has the Trump administration played
00:01:28in legitimizing Alberta's independence movement?
00:01:31I would love to see Canada be the 51st state.
00:01:34There's never been a worse time to call this referendum.
00:01:36Canada's vulnerable. I mean, what the hell is going on?
00:01:40I'm Mark Kelley. This is the Fifth Estate.
00:01:44[theme music playing]
00:01:47♪
00:01:51♪
00:01:54[light country music]
00:01:58I grew up in Quebec.
00:02:00I watched the 1980 referendum as a student,
00:02:02and covered the 1995 referendum as a CBC reporter.
00:02:07This I've learned:
00:02:09a referendum divides people in ways elections don't.
00:02:12And that's what's happening now in Alberta.
00:02:15So I'm here to find out who asked for this referendum,
00:02:18when polls consistently show
00:02:20about 3/4 of Albertans want to stay part of Canada.
00:02:25First stop: Foothills, Albert.
00:02:28♪
00:02:33I'm here to meet Jeff Rath.
00:02:36With his cowboy hat and his outsized swagger,
00:02:39Rath has become one of the key figures in the push for Alberta's independence.
00:02:43My brother lives in Ottawa. I mean, it's like,
00:02:45I have nothing against any of my fellow Canadians, period.
00:02:48We in Alberta are just fed up with the system. We want to change it.
00:02:51We want to be able to control our own destinies.
00:02:53And we don't want a bunch of voters in Quebec
00:02:56and the Maritimes determining our future anymore.
00:02:58♪
00:03:01Hello, Momma.
00:03:03[Mark] He's many things: a rancher,
00:03:05a constitutional lawyer, a political pugilist.
00:03:09But whatever you do, don't call him a separatist.
00:03:12We don't look at ourselves as separatists. We, you know, we're advocates
00:03:16for a free and independent Alberta.
00:03:18But how can you not see yourself as a separatist
00:03:20if you don't see that Alberta would be separating from Canada?
00:03:23Well, we don't see it that way, though. You know, people can call it separatist, but I mean, it's,
00:03:27you know, it's that negative connotation,
00:03:29you know, Quebec separatists, Alberta separatists.
00:03:31It's like, no, we're just regular folk
00:03:34that want a free and independent country.
00:03:37[Mark] Regular folks have been talking about their grievances, it seems,
00:03:40ever since Alberta joined Confederation back in 1905.
00:03:45Some people try to say that we are separatists.
00:03:49Ladies and gentlemen, as far as I am concerned,
00:03:52is it separation to try to free yourselves
00:03:56efrom the tentacles of an octopus?
00:04:00[Mark] But it's the two Trudeaus:
00:04:02Pierre Elliott, whose energy and agricultural programs
00:04:06made him a political pariah in the West...
00:04:21[Mark,] And son Justin with his carbon tax and COVID mandates
00:04:25that helped reignite a largely dormant movement.
00:04:28Canadians know that the way to get through this pandemic
00:04:32is for everyone to get vaccinated.
00:04:35So unless people have a medical exception,
00:04:39they will not be able to board a plane
00:04:42or a train in Canada if they are unvaccinated.
00:04:46Justin Trudeau says, I'm no longer allowed to fly
00:04:49because I didn't get vaccinated. I'm now a prisoner of Alberta.
00:04:52So I turned to a friend one day and I said,
00:04:54"okay, I guess if Trudeau won't let me leave Alberta,
00:04:58I'm going to pick up my entire province and go.
00:05:01And I've been literally working on it non-stop ever since.
00:05:10a bull in the China shop of Confederation.
00:05:13We are basically, you know,
00:05:14led around by the nose by whatever leader happens
00:05:17to rise to the top as if we lived in North Korea.
00:05:21And I, for one, am sick and tired of being governed that way.
00:05:26The pandemic is over and Trudeau is gone.
00:05:29Well, Carney's worse than Trudeau, I mean, is my answer.
00:05:32And I mean that was my impetus to start this, right?
00:05:35But it wasn't just that.
00:05:37The math, the economics, and the benefits of it
00:05:40are completely overwhelming.
00:05:42We, you know, literally see Mark Carney as the thin edge
00:05:45of communist China taking over Canada.
00:05:48-That's what you believe? -100%.
00:05:50The only way to amend the Canadian Constitution
00:05:55is for a Canadian province
00:05:57to vote itself the hell out of Canada.
00:06:01[cheers and applause] [Mark] Rath is one of three key figures
00:06:05in the modern independence movement,
00:06:07and they aren't your typical freedom fighters.
00:06:10Dennis Modry, a specialist in heart and lung transplants.
00:06:14His medical career ended after a dispute
00:06:16with Alberta Health Services over patient safety issues.
00:06:20He later re-emerged as a vocal critic
00:06:23of Alberta's vaccine mandates.
00:06:25For years, he's been going from town hall to town hall,
00:06:28advocating for independence to boost Alberta's prosperity.
00:06:32How many people here would like freedom
00:06:34from being over-governed, over-regulated, and over-taxed?
00:06:39How about freedom from wokeness,
00:06:41cancel culture, critical race theory?
00:06:44We have a path. And the path forward is a free and independent Alberta.
00:06:48Every Albertan desires
00:06:50that the great drain on Alberta...
00:06:52[Mark] And Mitch Sylvestre, a sporting goods retailer
00:06:56who became politically active after vaccine mandates
00:06:59forced his business to close during the pandemic.
00:07:03His bare-knuckle town hall speeches
00:07:05are laced with conspiracies and allegations
00:07:08of widespread political corruption in Canada.
00:07:12Mr. Trudeau spent eleven-thousand-million dollars
00:07:16on overseas gender programs.
00:07:19Eleven-thousand-million dollars.
00:07:21♪
00:07:24[Mark] Together Modry, Rath and Sylvestre
00:07:27created the Alberta Prosperity Project
00:07:30using PR campaigns to build support for Alberta's sovereignty,
00:07:34with the end goal: a referendum on independence.
00:07:37But none of these leaders had ever held political office,
00:07:40so they weren't in the position to lead Alberta
00:07:43out of Confederation on their own.
00:07:45But what they did have was the path to get there.
00:07:48And they had the people to help make it happen.
00:07:51[horns honking]
00:07:54Freedom! Whoo!
00:07:57F--- Trudeau! You guys start telling the truth.
00:08:01You guys have helped destroy this country, get the f--- out of here.
00:08:04I hope every border in Canada is blocked,
00:08:06I hope the country shuts down. [loud honking]
00:08:10[Mark] It was winter 2022,
00:08:12and between the border blockae in Coutts, Alberta
00:08:14and the trucker convoy in Ottawa, there was a group of activists
00:08:18furious with the federal government.
00:08:20They were motivated, and mobilized.
00:08:23After the pandemic they were searching for a cause,
00:08:26and they found it.
00:08:28What the movement needed was a political champion,
00:08:32someone who was listening to their grievances
00:08:34and not treating them as some fringe movement.
00:08:37What this is a recipe for is Alberta continuing
00:08:41to be the sole payer into the system,
00:08:44and continuing to shoulder an increasing burden.
00:08:47[Mark] And she was waiting in the wings.
00:08:49Danielle Smith was a host on 770 CHQR radio in Calgary.
00:08:54A former leader of the Wildrose party
00:08:56who controversially crossed the floor to join
00:08:59the Alberta Progressive Conservatives in 2014.
00:09:02In 2015, she lost the nominatn in her own riding.
00:09:05But years later, she would be poised for a comeback,
00:09:08thanks in part to support from the separatists.
00:09:12Coming up, the first steps,
00:09:14and the first roadblock on the path to independence.
00:09:18There was a cohort of the population
00:09:22who were living an alternative reality in COVID
00:09:24and they just got active,
00:09:26and I was behind the ball on that.
00:09:33What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:09:36province? The upcoming referendum will
00:09:38reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:09:42in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:09:45immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:09:49learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:09:53and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:09:56coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:10:00an informed choice.
00:12:03[theme music playing]
00:12:05[light country music]
00:12:10[Mark] This farm in the small town of Blackie
00:12:12is almost as old as Alberta itself.
00:12:15And over the years, western grievances
00:12:17and frustration with Ottawa politics have taken root here.
00:12:23Tanya Clemens is a farmer, a proud Albertan,
00:12:26frustrated by federalism.
00:12:30I have the maple leaf tattooed on my shoulder.
00:12:32I've grown up loving and idealizing Canada,
00:12:36even though I've come to learn that the Canada I believed in once
00:12:40doesn't necessarily exist in the same capacity.
00:12:44[Mark] Clemens now sees herself as a libertarian
00:12:47who wants to liberate Alberta from Confederation.
00:12:50To me, it means a little bit more of the government
00:12:53not having so much power over your daily life;
00:12:56that we have a little bit more sovereignty and self-determination.
00:12:59And that's what I advocate for, for Alberta right now,
00:13:01that we're not subjected to the rules of Ottawa
00:13:05and their policies that are made thousands of kilometres away.
00:13:10[Mark] It was 2021, when Clemens attended a rally
00:13:13with the main attraction, Dennis Modry,
00:13:16talking about his plan to set Alberta free.
00:13:19When Jason Kenney and the UCP were elected,
00:13:22they had 120,000 members.
00:13:24What we want to do with the Alberta Unity Project
00:13:28is we want to grow that membership to four or five
00:13:31or six or seven hundred thousand people.
00:13:33Why? Because that large group of people will influence
00:13:38the outcome of the next election.
00:13:41[Mark] Clemens was a member of the United Conservative Party,
00:13:45hungry for change she felt only a referendum
00:13:47on independence could deliver.
00:13:49Dr. Dennis Modry outlined the path for Alberta
00:13:53to achieve sovereignty within or without Canada
00:13:56and to me that was a path that all Albertans could get behind.
00:14:00But how would the independence leaders put Alberta
00:14:03on that path to a referendum?
00:14:05Our investigation has identified four key steps.
00:14:10Step one: take over the governing UCP
00:14:14and make change from the inside out.
00:14:17♪
00:14:22But a major obstacle on that road to a referendum
00:14:25was then-premier and UCP leader Jason Kenney.
00:14:41and unabashed federalist,
00:14:42he saw the separatists as a political nuisance,
00:14:45not a political threat.
00:14:47If your primary issue is vaccines,
00:14:51or chemtrails, or immigration diversity,
00:14:55or separation from Ottawa, or whatever,
00:15:00it neatly kind of ties together
00:15:02into an attitude of the rejection
00:15:05of these distant and personal globalist elites.
00:15:09And Alberta separatism is a way
00:15:12to liberate ourselves from all of that.
00:15:14When he co-founded the United Conservative Party
00:15:17back in 2017 he wanted loyalty to Canada
00:15:21as a founding principle for his federalist party,
00:15:24as a signal to separatists.
00:15:26To send a message to them that this is not your party.
00:15:29You want to play in politics? Good for you. It's a democracy.
00:15:32You get to do that in your separatist parties. This is not one of them.
00:15:35However, the UCP never agreed to adopt the pledge
00:15:39that the party was loyal to Canada. Kenney didn't realize then
00:15:43that the party he co-founded was starting to change.
00:15:46[loud honking]
00:15:48And so was Alberta, gripped by protests over vaccine mandate,
00:15:52and then-Premier Kenney caught in the crosshairs.
00:15:55[overlapping chatter]
00:15:59The options are, Kenney is replaced or he's not replaced?
00:16:03Whether he's replaced or not,
00:16:05could that party move with a new leader or with Jason
00:16:09to an independence-focused future?
00:16:13[Mark] Dennis Modry, Jeff Rath and Mitch Sylvestre
00:16:16were members of the UCP.
00:16:18And on the path to a referendum,
00:16:21step two: take down Kenney.
00:16:24I'd seen these things many times and they would usually flare up and burn out.
00:16:27So it didn't strike me as really a serious
00:16:32separatist movement at the time.
00:16:34It struck me as the usual perennially aggrieved people,
00:16:38blowing smoke. But here's the important point.
00:16:41These people who had maybe been on the fringe before,
00:16:45they're now in the party that you helped create.
00:16:48Yeah. They're in the tent, yeah, at that point.
00:16:50In 2022, facing a caucus revot
00:16:53over his COVID restrictions, Kenney faced a leadership review.
00:16:57His fate now in the hands of people newly recruited
00:17:00to join the UCP by the independence leaders.
00:17:03I will admit, I and my team
00:17:07were late to notice what was going on.
00:17:10We were perhaps a bit asleep at the switch.
00:17:12Kenney's address to UCP staff,
00:17:15weeks before his leadership review,
00:17:17was leaked and obtained by Radio-Canada.
00:17:38[Mark] In May 2022, in a staggering rebuke of his leadership,
00:17:42Kenney received only 51% support of the UCP members.
00:17:46He resigned right after the vote.
00:17:50Two-thirds of the people voting in that review vote,
00:17:53as well as, I understand, two-thirds voting
00:17:56in the subsequent fall leadership election
00:17:59that chose my successor,
00:18:01two-thirds of the voters in both cases were brand-new.
00:18:04They were brand-new.
00:18:06-Were they separatists? -Well, clearly.
00:18:09They came in on COVID anger, anti-vax sentiment.
00:18:12A lot of them were separatists.
00:18:14And then separatism became, when COVID passed, their sequel.
00:18:19Separatism is the sequel to the convoy movement.
00:18:22♪
00:18:28To find out more about these post-COVID,
00:18:31post-convoy converts to the independence cause,
00:18:34I travelled to tiny Mirror, Alberta,
00:18:37and pulled up for a cup of coffee
00:18:39at the Whistle Stop Cafe.
00:18:41Back in 2021, owner Chris Scott
00:18:43put his diner on the political map
00:18:46after he defied the province's COVID mandates.
00:18:49AHS and the RCMP are currently at the Whistle Stop.
00:18:53This is disgusting!
00:18:58How can any single one of you sleep at night
00:19:00with what you're doing right now!
00:19:03[Mark] He was arrested by the RCMP,
00:19:05spent three days in jail,
00:19:07but was acquitted of all charges in 2023.
00:19:37they bullied Canadians in a way that I've never seen,
00:19:40never expected, never dreamed could happen in Canada.
00:19:42And there was a lot of people that were hurt from that.
00:19:45And I always kind of cheer for the underdog.
00:19:48I'm willing to be stubborn
00:19:50and stand up for what I believe in, and that's...
00:19:53I really discovered that about myself throughout this whole thing.
00:19:57In this independence movement,
00:19:59do you see yourself and your fellow believers
00:20:02as the underdog in this story? Of course. Of course, right.
00:20:06It's not a mainstream thing, right?
00:20:07The independence movement is basically saying the status quo no longer works.
00:20:12We reject the idea of the status quo
00:20:14and we want to do something different.
00:20:19To mobilize more people to reject the status quo,
00:20:22Scott puts in a full shift at the Whistle Stop;
00:20:25then, when his workday is don,
00:20:28he climbs into his truck and heads out
00:20:30to town hall meetings he calls Let's Talk Alberta.
00:20:33He says he'll have organized almost 150 meetings
00:20:37by referendum day.
00:20:38♪
00:20:43We followed Scott to the town of Trochu,
00:20:46a farming community of some 1,200 residents,
00:20:49where the talk of Alberta's independence gets a warm welcome.
00:20:53[applause]
00:20:56Actually, it's the Laurentians, the ones tearing down John A. Macdonald's statue,
00:21:00the ones who were saying we're genocidal jerks, the ones that were saying we should stare at our shoes
00:21:04for being part of this country
00:21:05because we're such shameful colonial monsters,
00:21:09that we don't deserve it.
00:21:11Paternalism is creating separatists every day.
00:21:14Every time they lecture us, our support grows.
00:21:17Every time the Eastern media mocks us, support grows.
00:21:22I'd like to introduce you tonight, ladies and gentlemen,
00:21:24to the owner of the Whistle Stop Cafe, Mr. Chris Scott.
00:21:29[Mark] Scott then takes the floor to hammer home the poin,
00:21:33it's time to put Alberta firs.
00:21:35Western alienation, the biggest part of it
00:21:37was that we haven't been listened to. We feel we haven't been listened to.
00:21:41We feel that our values do not,
00:21:43are not effectively conveyed in Parliament,
00:21:46and then manifest in legislation that benefits the West.
00:21:50They just didn't listen.
00:21:54We can't do that anymore.
00:21:57Are Scott and other speakers preaching to the converted?
00:22:00Likely, but it's another meetg in another Alberta town
00:22:04where it seems people have given up on Canada.
00:22:08Dennis Modry, Jeff Rath and Mitch Sylvestre
00:22:11and the UCP membership
00:22:13took the next step in their path to independence.
00:22:16Step three: elect a new leader to deliver a referendum.
00:22:21There were seven candidates in the leadership race,
00:22:24six of them with ties to Jason Kenney's UCP government.
00:22:28The lone exception?
00:22:29When he said that this country is just fundamentally
00:22:33unsustainable, and Alberta in particular...
00:22:36[Mark] CHQR radio show host Danielle Smith.
00:22:39With Kenney's leadership under attack,
00:22:41Smith quit her radio job. We'll start off with Danielle Smith on that one.
00:22:45[Mark] She says she contacted none other than Dennis Modry
00:22:48before throwing her hat into the ring.
00:23:20Keep in mind, this is a room of a thousand
00:23:22pro-independence people in the Convention Centre in Edmonton.
00:23:25You know, you say that you're going to be talking to Ottawa and you're gonna be telling them,
00:23:29you know, we need to fix things or else, right?
00:23:32What's your or else?
00:23:33Well, she says my or else is Dennis Modry
00:23:36and the Alberta Prosperity Project, you know, sort of intimating that she--
00:23:40and she got a big round of applause--
00:23:41intimating that she's gonna take Alberta out of Canada.
00:23:45The leaders of, and potential leaders of the UCP
00:23:50and other independence parties are courting us
00:23:53because they know what we're doing,
00:23:56which has never, ever been done before,
00:23:59has the potential to win,
00:24:02and they want our support.
00:24:08[Mark] But Smith needed votes to win the crowded leadership ra.
00:24:12So her team went out looking for someone
00:24:14who could be a bridge to independence-minded voters.
00:24:18And that's how they found Jenny Walker in Grande Prairi.
00:24:21I was pulled back in by Danielle Smith's team.
00:24:26Walker is a seasoned political organizer
00:24:28who has worked for separatist parties.
00:24:31She says she agreed to campaign for Smith
00:24:34because she didn't treat separatist supporters
00:24:36as political outsiders.
00:24:39She was addressing some core issues,
00:24:41you know, privacy, freedom of speech,
00:24:45anything deemed as a conspiracy theory.
00:24:48But they're legitimate questions. Even if they are a conspiracy theory,
00:24:51it's a legitimate question for somebody to ask.
00:24:52[Mark] Once on Smith's leadership campaign,
00:24:55it was clear to her the separatist movement
00:24:57was now deeply embedded in the supposedly federalist UCP.
00:25:02It's weird because Jason Kenney has always said
00:25:04that the separatists couldn't organize themselves out of a wet paper bag.
00:25:07So I have to give them credit.
00:25:12[Mark] It took six ballots before a new leader was elect.
00:25:16I'm back!
00:25:19[Mark] With just under 54% of the vote,
00:25:22barely more than Jason Kenney's support,
00:25:25it wasn't a resounding victor.
00:25:27But for Danielle Smith, it was just enough.
00:25:30Tonight marks the beginning of a new chapter
00:25:33in the Alberta story.
00:25:35It is time for Alberta to take its place
00:25:37as a senior partner in building a strong and unified Canada.
00:25:42[cheers and applause]
00:25:44[Mark] Coming up, Smith's commitment to build
00:25:46a unified Canada puts her on a collision course
00:25:49with separatist supporters
00:25:51who voted her into the Premier's office.
00:25:54Thank you and may God keep our land glorious and free.
00:25:59[cheers and applause]
00:26:06What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:26:09province? The upcoming referendum will
00:26:12reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:26:15in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:26:18immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:26:22learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:26:26and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:26:29coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:26:33an informed choice.
00:28:38[horns honking]
00:28:40[crowd din]
00:28:44[Mark] It was May 2026, and independence leader
00:28:48Mitch Sylvestre was beaming like the proud parent
00:28:50of a newborn baby when he delivered a petition
00:28:53and a message to Premier Danielle Smith.
00:28:56Dear Premier Smith,
00:28:58on behalf of the Stay Free Alberta campaign,
00:29:00I'm pleased to advise you today that we delivered
00:29:03to Elections Alberta 301,450 signatures.
00:29:07[cheers and applause]
00:29:10[Mark] The independence side said 7,000 volunteers
00:29:14spent almost four months during a bitterly cold
00:29:16Alberta winter collecting signatures on their petition,
00:29:21leading to the next step on the path.
00:29:24Step four: secure a referendu.
00:29:28Their question: "Do you agree that the province of Alberta
00:29:31should cease to be a part of Canada
00:29:33to become an independent state?"
00:29:36We look forward to your government receiving this clear expression
00:29:39of the democratic will of Albertans,
00:29:42and advancing the next steps to include this important
00:29:44question on the referendum ballot on October 19th, 2026.
00:29:51[Mark] Their confidence grew after Premier Smith had lowered the bar
00:29:55for the number of signatures legally required
00:29:57to trigger a referendum question.
00:30:00And that was a critical move,
00:30:02because of the 301,000 signatures collected,
00:30:05only 222,600 were verified.
00:30:09That's just 7.5% of the Alberta electorate.
00:30:14This is the first step to the next step. [laughter]
00:30:16And away we go, thank you very much. God bless all of you.
00:30:24[Mark] Far from the mounting political tension
00:30:26is Sturgeon Lake Cree Nation.
00:30:29And long before there was talk of a referendum,
00:30:32long before there was a province called Alberta,
00:30:36the Cree were here.
00:30:39And this...
00:30:40-this is the territory. -Yes.
00:30:43-It's gorgeous out here. -Part of it, yeah.
00:30:47We're blessed.
00:30:48Oh, yes, beautiful, beautiful.
00:30:53Not many more beautiful than that.
00:30:56[Mark] Chief Sheldon Sunshine says it's his duty,
00:30:59his responsibility, to protect this land as it was protected