Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00ignatures collected,
00:00:03only 222,600 were verified.
00:00:07That's just 7.5% of the Alberta electorate.
00:00:12This is the first step to the next step. [laughter]
00:00:24is Sturgeon Lake Cree Nation.
00:00:28And long before there was talk of a referendum,
00:00:31long before there was a province called Alberta,
00:00:34the Cree were here.
00:00:37And this...
00:00:39-this is the territory. -Yes.
00:00:41-It's gorgeous out here. -Part of it, yeah.
00:00:45We're blessed.
00:00:47Oh, yes, beautiful, beautiful.
00:00:51Not many more beautiful than that.
00:00:55[Mark] Chief Sheldon Sunshine says it's his duty,
00:00:58his responsibility, to protect this land as it was protected
00:01:01by generations of chiefs who came before him.
00:01:05That's part of who we are here in Sturgeon.
00:01:09We're good people.
00:01:10But one of the terms that I like to use
00:01:13is that we're nice until we're not.
00:01:16It gets us-- You've got to push us through
00:01:20a certain point for us not to be nice,
00:01:23and we're getting pushed to that point.
00:01:26[Mark] Chief Sunshine and other First Nations chiefs
00:01:29opposed the idea of a referenm on independence.
00:01:32They argue it violates their treaty rights
00:01:35because they were never consulted on the plan.
00:01:37The chief says he considers independence
00:01:40a way for the Alberta governmt to grab First Nations land
00:01:43for resource development.
00:01:45They want to fast track these resource developments.
00:01:47And all of these legislations are avenues to go around
00:01:52First Nations, our rights to the land, our way of life.
00:01:56You know, when we signed the treaty,
00:01:58it was with the understanding that our people could live...
00:02:04forever, practicing our way of life.
00:02:06[Mark] So the First Nations leaders went to court
00:02:09to block the independence referendum, and won.
00:02:12-The treaties live! -The treaties live!
00:02:15-The nations live! -The nations live!
00:02:19[Mark] Orlagh O'Kelly is a lawyer for the Sturgeon Lake Cree.
00:02:22She said the court decision gave Premier Smith an opportunity
00:02:25to call off or delay the referendum on independenc.
00:02:29She could have taken that off-ramp. I think that was the final,
00:02:33maybe the final verdict at that point
00:02:36was here's an off-ramp.
00:02:38And I believe Chief Sunshine openly invited her
00:02:41to take that off-ramp, and she didn't take it.
00:02:45Just to shelve this whole referendum question idea. You have an out.
00:02:49You can go back to your base and say, sorry,
00:02:50the court said no, and I'm going to respect that.
00:02:55[Mark] But instead of taking the off-ramp,
00:02:57in May, Smith announced a referendum
00:03:00on independence would indeed be held,
00:03:02with a new question, one the courts would accept.
00:03:22[Mark] If voters choose the second option,
00:03:24another referendum will be held,
00:03:27after consulting Alberta's First Nations.
00:03:30Now, I want to be clear.
00:03:32I support Alberta remaining in Canada.
00:03:35That is how I would vote on separation in a provincial referendum.
00:03:39It is also the position of my government and my caucus.
00:03:42[Mark] Perhaps, but it wasn't the position of her party membership.
00:03:46In May, an Angus Reid poll revealed 64% of the UCP membes
00:03:50would vote to hold a binding referendum to leave Canada.
00:03:54Members like Mitch Sylvestre,
00:03:57now a UCP constituency president
00:03:59and major party fundraiser, and Dennis Modry,
00:04:02seen here with the premier at a UCP dinner.
00:04:05As well as independence firebrand Jeff Rath,
00:04:09who confronted Smith and her cabinet
00:04:11at the UCP annual general meeting last fall,
00:04:14to send the premier a message.
00:04:16[Jeff] My question for the room is how many of all of us
00:04:20favour a free and independent Alberta?
00:04:23[cheers and applause]
00:04:25Raise your hand, stand up.
00:04:27Well, I support an independent Alberta within a united Canada.
00:04:32That is my position.
00:04:34[Mark] Smith's response was met by a chorus of boos
00:04:37and only a smattering of applause.
00:04:39So, if she favoured a united Canada,
00:04:42along with the majority of Albertans according to pol,
00:04:45why hold the referendum? When Danielle Smith ran,
00:04:49when she was actually elected in 2023... -Yeah. -she didn't run on any of this.
00:04:53Jason Kenney got taken out by that arm of the party
00:04:56and she knows that, right?
00:04:59She's managed to appease them, I think.
00:05:01So she saved herself, it worked. [Mark] But if it was all a game
00:05:05of political survival for Smith, lawyer O'Kelly wonders at what cost
00:05:09for Albertans, and Canadians.
00:05:12There's never been a worse time to call this referendum.
00:05:15Like, Canada's vulnerable
00:05:17with Donald Trump in office.
00:05:19What I'm worried about is, you know, influence from the United States,
00:05:23but there's other foreign actors
00:05:24who would gladly see Canada dismembered.
00:05:27But do you see this as a dangerous game?
00:05:29Yes, very dangerous.
00:05:33Also, they've been very nasty to us on trade.
00:05:35I would love to see Canada be the 51st state.
00:05:40[Mark] Remember, in late 2025,
00:05:42U.S. President Trump was trolling Canada
00:05:44while inflicting damaging trade tariffs.
00:05:48Canada was in full on elbows up mode.
00:06:02[Mark] So what did the three leaders of Alberta's independence movement do?
00:06:06Well, there's a group of Albertans that are working together right now to put together a delegation
00:06:09to go to Washington to talk to the Trump administration
00:06:12about Alberta petitioning for U.S. statehood.
00:06:15So how important is support from the U.S. administration
00:06:18to the success of your Alberta independence movement?
00:06:21I think it's absolutely crucial, right?
00:06:23Because, you know, a big part of what we're saying is
00:06:25that we are going to be far better off outside of Canada.
00:06:28A big driver of this movement is all the anti-Americanism
00:06:32that we're seeing out of Ontario and, you know, all the elbows up nonsense.
00:06:36Can you imagine anything more childish? Like, elbows up, we're going to beat the Americans
00:06:39by pretending we're Gordie Howe and elbow them in the mouth. I mean, it's silly, right?
00:06:44Culturally, we're far more closer
00:06:46to our friends and relatives in Montana
00:06:49than we are with anybody in southern Ontario, right?
00:06:54[Mark] The delegation, which included Mitch Sylvestre
00:06:56and Dennis Modry, met at the U.S. State Departmt
00:06:59on three separate occasions.
00:07:02Neither side will say who represented the U.S. at the meetings.
00:07:06We're not at liberty to say, unfortunately.
00:07:08That's the one, we can talk about some of the things that we discussed in those meetings.
00:07:11We have an agreement with them we won't disclose their identity. But it seems like you're having your cake
00:07:15-and eating it too. -Yeah, well... You talk a lot about the meetings and that they were
00:07:18high level and yet you won't be saying who it was.
00:07:21I know, Mark, it just is what it is.
00:07:24I mean, I've gone around the mulberry bush on this
00:07:28with a number of journalists. I mean, we agreed to that,
00:07:31and unlike a lot of the politicians on the other side of this, we keep our word.
00:07:34So, but, you know, that being said, people that were in our meetings were going, you know,
00:07:38directly from our meetings to the Oval Office.
00:07:40What the hell is going on? These people are not elected dog catcher.
00:07:44They don't represent anyone. [Mark] Former Premier Jason Kenney
00:07:48says he would have stopped the meetings in their tracks
00:07:50had he still been in office.
00:07:52But to have some, you know, random guy
00:07:56in a cowboy hat just call up the State Department and say,
00:08:01"hey, I'm going to come down and effectively represent
00:08:05your largest external supplier of energy and your--
00:08:08"by the way, to talk about seceding
00:08:10from your closest trading partner and strategic ally."
00:08:13Give me a break.
00:08:15"Canada's the 51st state" was the top narrative
00:08:17that was being pushed out. [Mark] Marcus Kolga is a founder
00:08:21of a group called DisinfoWatc.
00:08:23He's been monitoring misinformation
00:08:25generated in the U.S. during our trade war.
00:08:28He says his findings suggest the intent
00:08:31is to destabilize Canada.
00:08:33And it tells us that the fastest rising narrative
00:08:35is this Canadian state failure
00:08:38and that the Alberta referendum,
00:08:41Alberta independence, is the solution
00:08:44to Albertans escaping this failed state in Canada.
00:08:51[Mark] The 51st state rhetoric is being pushed
00:08:54by the likes of podcaster
00:08:55and former Fox News host Trish Regan.
00:08:59Danielle has actually made it so that in October,
00:09:02they're going to have that secession vote.
00:09:05So why not become an honorary United States state?
00:09:10America would gain greater access to oil.
00:09:12Alberta gains access to our protection.
00:09:15But what do you want Albertans to know, Canadians to know,
00:09:17about this threat of disinformation
00:09:20and foreign interference? Is it very much alive as we speak?
00:09:24It's alive, and the key point
00:09:26that we want to achieve in all of this
00:09:29is to make Albertans aware that they are being targeted.
00:09:34[Mark] When we come back, the pressure mounts on the premier.
00:09:38Danielle is not on our side, she's never been on our side.
00:09:42And that's why you want to get rid of her? Absolutely.
00:09:45♪
00:09:49What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:09:52province? The upcoming referendum will
00:09:55reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:09:59in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:10:02immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:10:06learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:10:09and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:10:13coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:10:16an informed choice.
00:12:24[Mark] As summer turns to fall on the Alberta Prairie,
00:12:26we're now just a couple weeks away from referendum da.
00:12:30Premier Smith has spent months trying
00:12:33to hold her party and her province together.
00:12:37This tower is a symbol of support for an independent Alberta.
00:12:42It was put up in 2020, essentially,
00:12:44as a middle finger to then-prime minister
00:12:46Justin Trudeau and his energy policies.
00:12:51Rod Perron put the tower up.
00:12:53And he says he won't take it down
00:12:55until Alberta is finally free of Canada.
00:13:11demanding a referendum.
00:13:13He wishes this vote would be a binding question:
00:13:16remain or leave.
00:13:19But he sees this referendum as getting
00:13:22one step closer to independence.
00:13:24And he thanks Premier Danielle Smith for that.
00:13:27She's good. One of the things that
00:13:29I really smile about with her is,
00:13:31so you've got the separatists
00:13:34that are saying, oh, she's a federalist.
00:13:36And you've got the federalists saying, oh, she's a separatist.
00:13:38-'Cause you just... -So which is she, Rod?
00:13:43I think she's waiting to find out. [laughs]
00:13:46She's a representative of her people.
00:13:49My personal opinion is that I think
00:13:52she would lead an independent Alberta.
00:13:55[Mark] But he feels his next door neighbours, the Sturgeon Lake Cree,
00:13:58are standing in the way of his dream of an independent Alberta.
00:14:01There's a few chiefs.
00:14:04You know, a few elders who got some people really worked up,
00:14:08but it's, you know, for me, I got to really ask why.
00:14:11Why would you even want to stay?
00:14:14You know, they've been getting beat up
00:14:17worse than Alberta for the last 123 years
00:14:20and, you know, why would they want to stay?
00:14:23Every time you see an Alberta flag, you just assume they're separatists.
00:14:29-That's what you see? -That's what I see.
00:14:32[Mark] Chief Sunshine knows Perron and his politics.
00:14:35Their communities are side by side.
00:14:38And this political divide is creating bad blood.
00:14:42With the whole start of the separatist talk,
00:14:45we've seen a lot of...
00:14:49[sighs]
00:14:51a lot of racism come out.
00:14:53You know, it was always there,
00:14:55but I think with the separatists,
00:14:58that really emboldened a lot of people
00:15:01that come out with their opinions and their views.
00:15:04What are those opinions and views? Well, you know,
00:15:08some of them feel that we are holding up
00:15:12[laughs] the separatist issue.
00:15:15But at the end of the day,
00:15:17we're just protecting our rights of our people.
00:15:19[Mark] But unlike his neighbour Perron,
00:15:22he is convinced of Premier Smith's political endgame.
00:15:25Do you believe that Premier Danielle Smith is a separatist?
00:15:30100%.
00:15:32I don't think there's anything
00:15:34that could prove otherwise to me.
00:15:38You know, she was right up in the camp, changing the laws,
00:15:42you know, and now she's on the other hand,
00:15:46trying to save Canada, be Captain Canada.
00:15:48But, you know, like I said, the actions speak louder than words.
00:15:52And all of her actions indicate that she's a separatist.
00:16:03Danielle is not on our side, she's never been on our side,
00:16:07and-- but she's the only reason she has power
00:16:10is that she fooled enough people into thinking she was.
00:16:15She's literally, you know, she's leader of the UCP
00:16:17by fraud, is what it amounts to.
00:16:19And that's why you want to get rid of her? Absolutely, well, that and, you know,
00:16:23strategically and tactically we see her as a, you know,
00:16:26as a complete impediment to independence.
00:16:29[Mark] So, separatist supporters like Rath
00:16:31are now taking one more step on their path
00:16:34to Alberta's independence. Step five: get rid of Smith.
00:16:39We just need to get rid of her sooner rather than later
00:16:41and, you know, proceed to have a special
00:16:44general meeting of the party to vote
00:16:47on her leadership the same way we did with Jason Kenney.
00:16:51I understand their frustrations for sure,
00:16:53because we were hoping that she would advocate more heavily
00:16:57on our side instead of taking a position against us.
00:17:02[Mark] Tanya Clemens, who once campaigned for Smith,
00:17:05now sits on the board of her local constituency associatio.
00:17:08In late September, she voted with her board
00:17:11to hold a review of the Premier's leadership.
00:17:29[Mark] Back at the Whistle Stop Cafe,
00:17:31owner Chris Scott harbours his own doubts about the premier.
00:17:35He says her support of Alberta remaining in Canada
00:17:38has set back the independence movement he supports.
00:17:42The idea of holding a referendum to see
00:17:46if you want to have a referendum, how does that strike you?
00:17:50Well, it's annoying. I understand why.
00:17:52I do get that she's trying to walk a political tightrope.
00:17:56She's trying to balance, you know, the support of her base,
00:18:00which is estimated 60 to 70% of the UCP
00:18:03is, they're on board with Alberta sovereignty.
00:18:06She's trying to balance that with the federalist faction in the UCP.
00:18:09She's trying to balance that with her commitments
00:18:12to the federal government to work on some projects.
00:18:15Do you see the party heading for a split?
00:18:18100%. 100%.
00:18:22It's not just UCP members who are unhappy with the premier.
00:18:25Her popularity rating
00:18:27is now at the lowest since her election in 2023.
00:18:30And the separatists smell blood.
00:18:34Even the premier seems to be showing the strain of the campaign.
00:18:37In an online conference at the end of September,
00:18:40Premier Smith became emotiona,
00:18:42saying Albertans are angry and they need to be heard.
00:18:45Some begin to ask the painful question:
00:18:53[clears throat]
00:18:55Does this country actually want us?
00:19:02Even if most Albertans choose to remain,
00:19:06and current polls suggest it's two-thirds who will vote that way,
00:19:09the number of people who feel this frustrated
00:19:12with their own country is too high for comfort.
00:19:18We requested an interview with Premier Smith
00:19:20to discuss her divided party, and her divided province.
00:19:24We were told she would not be made available
00:19:26to speak to the Fifth Estate.
00:19:30Two of the independence leades now have other issues to deal with.
00:19:43after two First Nations allege he misappropriated
00:19:47millions of dollars from trust funds his law firm oversaw.
00:19:52Rath calls the allegations false.
00:19:56And last year a B.C. judge found Dennis Modry
00:19:59misappropriated $1.3 million from his aunt and uncle.
00:20:04Since then, he's stepped back from public appearances.
00:20:07He didn't respond to our requests for an interview.
00:20:13So, how will Premier Smith unite Albertans
00:20:15after holding a referendum on independence
00:20:18only a fraction of voters ever asked for?
00:20:22A referendum
00:20:24many of the separatist supporters now condemn.
00:20:28This political exercise has exposed
00:20:30the soft underbelly of Canadian unity.
00:20:33And just like Quebec, the divisions in Alberta
00:20:37won't end when the ballots are counted.
00:20:41[theme music playing]
00:20:51[Steven] Next week on the Fifth Estate.
00:20:53I'm Steven D'Souza in Berlin,
00:20:55on the trail of anti-government movements in Canada and abroad.
00:21:00They're called sovereign citizens.
00:21:02They see taxes, western governments,
00:21:04and their institutions as illegitimate.
00:21:08[knocking] Hello, is anybody here? We go on the search for a man
00:21:10who duped the Canada Revenue Agency
00:21:13into giving him a massive refund. Well, how do you know that?
00:21:17We have some sources. I mean, $40 million is a lot of money.
00:21:19We look at how sovereigns
00:21:21are using conspiracy theories to try and steal
00:21:24hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money.
00:21:27They can keep hitting the Bank of Canada forever
00:21:29at this rate, nothing's been done to stop it.
00:21:31And in Germany we look at how extreme sovereigns
00:21:35try to overthrow the governme.
00:21:37Could that happen in Canada?
00:21:39The moment you believe the whole world is actually a facade,
00:21:43then it gets so hellishly dangerous.
00:21:46That's next week on the Fifth Estate.
00:21:51I'm Timothy Sawa, I'm an investigative journalist
00:21:54with the Fifth Estate.
00:21:55From 2021 to 2025, the northern B.C. town
00:21:58of Dawson Creek saw over a dozen homicides.
00:22:02I learned that over the last few years,
00:22:04Dawson became an unlikely home for a thriving drug trade.
00:22:08With it came violence and intimidation more typical
00:22:11of a narco-state than a quiet farming town.
00:22:13You can listen to my full investigation into the Mile Zero Murders
00:22:17right now, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:22:22♪
00:22:28♪
00:22:34♪
00:22:40♪
00:22:46♪
00:22:56What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:22:58province? The upcoming referendum will
00:23:01reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:23:05in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:23:08immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:23:12learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:23:15and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:23:19coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:23:22an informed choice.
00:26:02is going to be cracking down. Minimum 10% tariff on all
00:26:05imports. Some contracts are already getting cancelled.
00:26:08Facing a potential 25 or even 50% tariff on steel exports.
00:26:12We're already hearing about layoffs. Feeling the financial
00:26:15pain of Canada's 25% counter tariffs. He believes that
00:26:18Canadians would benefit greatly from becoming the 51st state
00:26:22when our sovereignty is threatened.
00:26:25You do what you can. He is trying to break us. So you have
00:26:28questions. How should Canadians be preparing for that next trip?
00:26:32What is your plan? How seriously are you taking
00:26:35this threat of 100% tariffs on foreign made films?
00:26:38A lot of questions. How is Hamilton bracing for tariff
00:26:42impact? When we talk about counter
00:26:44terrorists, do those affect you? How much does it cost to be
00:26:48patriotic when picking items at the grocery store?
00:26:51And while your elbows have been up, elbows up.
00:26:56For us, it's the sleeves rolled up.
00:26:58Because you need answers about your neighborhood, your world,
00:27:02your Canada,
00:27:04and what it means for all of us to say we are Canadian.
00:27:13Our journalists countrywide and all over the world are on the
00:27:17case.
00:27:18Do you think you're gonna have to close?
00:27:21I hate to think about that.
00:27:30I'm about 15 kilometers from the Russian border. Where are
00:27:34Canada's allies? Where are Canada's markets?
00:27:36What is this country's place on the planet?
00:27:39It's the uncertainty that's the
00:27:41this issue. What is the next thing to happen and what will
00:27:46it mean for all of us? We assume that it will be a
00:27:50difficult Rd. Canada. We got you and we are right there
00:27:54right beside you trying to make sense of it with you.
00:28:11Power and politics, the scale of the crisis and chaos and a day like this. We gotta get to the power panel
00:28:15early. Experts and party insiders break it all down.
00:28:18This is a shift in the Liberal position. And then the Tories
00:28:21are just left to say, well, you're not moving fast and
00:28:23making sense of our world. Conditions have gotten pretty
00:28:26bad and they look like they're gonna get worse. Can't now walk
00:28:29that back because governing is a lot harder than campaigning.
00:28:32He's a drag on his own party, extremely difficult choices.
00:28:35The Power Panel on power and politics with David Cochrane, weekdays on CBC News.
00:28:41Now to some breaking news. Are you a trade deal? The world moves fast. We're gathering at one of those
00:28:45turning points in history. But a headline isn't the whole
00:28:48story. That would allow Putin to have his way without having
00:28:51to use force. We don't just report the news. Which outlet
00:28:54are you with? The Canadian public broadcast.
00:28:56We connect the dots. Is it about stopping drugs?
00:28:58Donald Trump has never met a hydrocarbon. He didn't cover it.
00:29:01If the facts that matter, why is that your focus right
00:29:04now? From the source, you can trust the National Canada's newscast.
00:29:11Amy and Hannah Nancy, we're live in Vancouver.
00:29:13Breaking live, engaging for all the top
00:29:16stories. Don't miss Hannah Mansing Live.
00:29:29Your news, your weather, your morning. Good Morning
00:29:32Canada, CBC Morning Live with David Comedy.
00:29:41What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:29:44province? The upcoming referendum will
00:29:46reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:29:50in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:29:53immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:29:57learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:30:00and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:30:04coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:30:08an informed choice.
00:30:27I'm Mark Kelly, and this is CBC News. Here's a
00:30:28look at some of the big stories making news across the country
00:30:31and around the world.
00:30:35WE HAVE BREAKING NEWS FOR YOU. YOU. STELCO SAYS IT IS GOING STELCO SAYS IT IS GOING AHEAD WITH HUNDREDS OF
00:30:39AHEAD WITH HUNDREDS OF LAYOFFS AT ITS HAMILTON LAYOFFS AT ITS HAMILTON STEEL PLANT.
00:30:42STEEL PLANT. THAT'S DESPITE THREATS OF THAT'S DESPITE THREATS OF LEGAL CONSEQUENCES FROM
00:30:46LEGAL CONSEQUENCES FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. >> FAILING IT FOLLOW THEIR
00:30:48>> FAILING IT FOLLOW THEIR COMMITMENTS -- FAILING TO COMMITMENTS -- FAILING TO FOLLOW THEIR COMMITMENTS
00:30:52FOLLOW THEIR COMMITMENTS WILL RESULT BY ACTIONS BY WILL RESULT BY ACTIONS BY THE GOVERNMENT, AND SO