Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
01:00:22♪♪ >> Rosemary: THIS SUNDAY ON "ROSEMARY BARTON LIVE" --
01:00:23>> THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF COMMON.
01:00:27FIRST, WE'LL FOCUS ON THAT. >> Rosemary: CANADIAN CONCERNS. HOW WILL OTTAWA NAVIGATE A
01:00:30RELATIONSHIP WITH QUÉBEC'S NEW SEPARATIST GOVERNMENT. AND WITH A REFERENDUM IN
01:00:34ALBERTA, IS NATIONAL UNITY AT RISK? MINISTER OF INTERGOVERNMENTAL
01:00:38AFFAIRS DOMINIC LEBLANC IS HERE. >> THEY NEED TO COMPLY.
01:00:41IF NOT, WE'LL USE THE FULL FORCE OF THE LAW.
01:00:44>> Rosemary: STEEL RESOLVES. STELCO'S OWNER RESPONDS TO
01:00:47OTTAWA'S DEMAND, DISPUTING CLAIMS THEY'RE IN BREACH OF
01:00:51THEIR COMMITMENTS OVER PLANNED
01:00:55LAYOFFS. WHY EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH CLEVELAND-CLIFFS C.E.O.
01:00:58>> IT'S UNDERMINING INVESTOR CERTAINTY. >> Rosemary: WITH ALBERTA'S VOTE
01:01:02JUST OVER ONE WEEK AWAY, CONCERNS OF FOREIGN
01:01:04INTERFERENCE, INCLUDING FROM THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD. WHAT'S THE RESPONSE FROM PEOPLE
01:01:08INSIDE THE PROVINCE? FORMER ALBERTA PREMIER RACHEL NOTLEY JOINS ME.
01:01:11IT ALL STARTS NOW ON "ROSEMARY BARTON LIVE."
01:01:14♪♪
01:01:19>> Rosemary: THANKS FOR JOINING US ON THIS THANKSGIVING SUNDAY. PRIME MINISTER MARK CARNEY IS
01:01:22HEADING TO ALBERTA THIS WEEK IN THE CRUCIAL FINAL DAYS AHEAD OF
01:01:26THE PROVINCE'S VOTE ON A REFERENDUM ON OCTOBER 19th.
01:01:29THAT VOTE COMES JUST TWO WEEKS AFTER THE SEPARATIST PARTI
01:01:33QUEBECOIS FORMED A MINORITY GOVERNMENT, PROMISING TO HOLD A
01:01:37REFERENDUM WHEN DONALD TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE IN 2029.
01:01:40AS CANADA FACES TWO POTENTIAL SOVEREIGNTY CHALLENGES, CARNEY
01:01:44SAYS THE FUTURE OF CANADA WILL
01:01:45BE DECIDED BY CANADIANS.
01:01:49>> Prime Minister Mark Carney: BUILDING A STRONG QUÉBEC WITHIN A STRONG CANADA AND A STRONG
01:01:52CANADA THAT MEANS MORE INDEPENDENT, MORE SOVEREIGN,
01:01:55MORE PROSPEROUS OBVIOUSLY.
01:01:58BUT ALSO -- SO WE CAN LIVE OUR
01:02:01LIVES AS WE CHOOSE IN QUÉBEC, IN CANADA. THAT.
01:02:03ARES OUR LANGUAGES, OUR CULTURE, OUR WAY OF LIFE.
01:02:07>> Rosemary: EARLIER I SPOKE TO THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR
01:02:11INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS DOMINIC LEBLANC ON HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS APPROACHING THE
01:02:25>> Rosemary: AND TO YOU. AND TO YOU. BECAUSE YOUR JOB TITLE IS VERY
01:02:28LONG, I HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS ON DIFFERENT TOPICS FOR YOU.
01:02:31I WANT TO START WITH QUÉBEC, IF
01:02:33I CAN.
01:02:36OBVIOUSLY THE P.Q. GOVERNMENT
01:02:41WON. THEY PROMISED TO HOLD A REFERENDUM ONCE TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE.
01:02:45THE PRIME MINISTER AND PLAMONDON SAID THEY'LL WORK TOGETHER.
01:02:47I WANT TO KNOW WHAT COOPERATIVE FEDERALISM LOOKS LIKE WHEN YOU
01:02:51HAVE A PREMIER WHO ALSO WANTS TO
01:02:53HOLD A REFERENDUM FOR SEPARATION
01:02:55AT SOME POINT.
01:02:57>> WELL, THE KEY THING IS WHAT
01:02:59YOU JUST SAID, ROSEMARY, AT SOME POINT.
01:03:03QUÉBECERS CHOSE A GOVERNMENT ON
01:03:07MONDAY EVENING. THEY EXPECT THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA TO BE A PARTNER IN
01:03:10ADDRESSING THE PRIORITIES IN THE
01:03:14LIVES OF QUÉBECERS ON ISSUES
01:03:16THAT WERE ABSOLUTELY ALIGNED
01:03:19WITH MR. PLAMONDON. I KNOW IN THE PRIME MINISTER'S
01:03:22PHONE CALL WITH THE PREMIER-DESIGNATE THEY TALKED
01:03:25ABOUT THINGS LIKE HOMELESSNESS. A HUGE CHALLENGE.
01:03:28IT WAS A BIG ISSUE IN THE QUÉBEC ELECTION. >> Rosemary: YEP.
01:03:32>> WE'RE ABSOLUTELY ALIGNED IN WANTING TO WORK WITH HIM ON THAT. INFRASTRUCTURE.
01:03:36THE CANADA-U.S. TARIFF CONTEXT.
01:03:41THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF COMMON INTERESTS. WE'LL START BY FOCUSING ON THAT.
01:03:45AND THE COMING MONTHS AND THE
01:03:47COMING YEARS WILL BRING OTHER TALES.
01:03:49WE'RE NOT STARTING FROM A HYPOTHETICAL CIRCUMSTANCE TWO,
01:03:53THREE YEARS FROM NOW. >> Rosemary: HE IS, HOWEVER, --
01:03:57MR. PLAMONDON TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE MONARCHY IN QUÉBEC.
01:04:00NOT JUST THE OATH TO THE KING, WHICH AS YOU KNOW HAS BEEN AN
01:04:02ISSUE IN THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY. BUT ALSO THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR
01:04:06OF QUÉBEC. DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S
01:04:10POSSIBLE? >> I'M NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR.
01:04:12WE'RE NOT WASTING A LOT OF TIME
01:04:15RETAINING OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO PROVIDE CONSTITUTIONAL ADVICE ON
01:04:18THESE KIND OF ISSUES, ROSEMARY.
01:04:21HE CAN -- HE CAN DISCUSS THOSE ISSUES.
01:04:24WE DON'T THINK THEY'RE HUGE PRIORITIES FOR QUÉBECERS. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS IN THE
01:04:28CONVERSATION WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, THEY DIDN'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THAT ISSUE.
01:04:32IN FACT, DIDN'T DISCUSS IT AT ALL.
01:04:35>> Rosemary: ALBERTA ALSO -- JUST OVER A WEEK IS FACING THIS
01:04:39REFERENDUM. THAT'S NEXT ON MONDAY -- NEXT MONDAY RATHER.
01:04:42AND THE PRIME MINISTER AND OTHERS HAVE SAID THAT YOU'RE
01:04:45TRACKING ALLEGATIONS OF FOREIGN INTERFERENCE. WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THOSE
01:04:48CONCERNS AND WHETHER THEY ARE
01:04:51MORE INTENSE THAN YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED? LIKE THE INTEREST FROM FOREIGN
01:04:55ACTORS IS MORE INTENSE GIVEN THE
01:04:59SITUATION. >> YEAH. I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK IT'S
01:05:03MORE INTENSE THAN WE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED.
01:05:07WE HAVE FOR SOME TIME BEEN AWARE
01:05:10OF DIFFERENT FOREIGN ACTORS THAT
01:05:14SEEK TO INTERFERE IN DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES IN CANADA.
01:05:17IT'S NOT NEW. >> Rosemary: SURE. >> IT'S NEW IN TERMS OF THE LAST
01:05:21NUMBER OF YEARS.
01:05:23WE'RE WORKING IN ALBERTA WITH ELECTIONS ALBERTA.
01:05:27THE SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE SERVICES, CSIS AMONG OTHERS.
01:05:31IN FACT, PARLIAMENT CHANGED THE LAW A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WITH THE SUPPORT OF MOST OF THE
01:05:34PARTIES, IF NOT ALL OF THEM, I THINK THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, FOR
01:05:38GIVE CSIS THE ABILITY TO SHARE INFORMATION WITH PROVINCIAL
01:05:42PARTNERS. SO THAT'S AN ONGOING EFFORT.
01:05:46FEDEAT THE END OF THE DAY, ROSE,
01:05:48I'M VERY, VERY CONFIDENT THAT
01:05:51THESE DIAGNOSES, IF -- THESE
01:05:54DECISIONS ARE MADE BY CANADIANS WHO GO TO POLLING STATIONS AND
01:05:57CAST THEIR BALLOTS. >> Rosemary: EXCEPT PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT SOME OF THE
01:06:01CALLS ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, RIGHT.
01:06:04SOME OF THE CENTIMETRES HAVE
01:06:06REPORT -- SEPARATISTS HAVE MET
01:06:08WITH OFFICIALS IN THE U.S., PROMISING THEM THINGS, AGO ETS
01:06:12THAT ALBERTA HAS IF THEY WERE TO HELP THEM.
01:06:14HOW DO YOU HANDLE THINGS WHEN IT'S BEING SOLICITED BY
01:06:18CANADIANS, BUT TO COULD BE
01:06:20VIEWED AS STILL AS BEING
01:06:23INTERFERENCE?
01:06:25>> WE'LL LET THOSE PEOPLE
01:06:28EXPLAIN TO ALBERTANS WHY THEY THOUGHT IT WAS USEFUL TO TAKE
01:06:32SOME TRIP TO WASHINGTON AND MEET
01:06:34SOME PEOPLE IN A FOREIGN
01:06:37ADMINISTRATION TO HOLD OUT SOME KIND PERFORM COMMITMENTS THAT
01:06:40THEY MAY OR MAY NOT EVER BE ABLE TO DELIVER.
01:06:43LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE BUY AIR TICKETS, ROSEMARY, AND TRAVEL
01:06:46AROUND TO PLACES AND HAVE
01:06:48MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE WHO PRETEND
01:06:50TO BE DECISION MAKERS AND OTHER CONTEXT.
01:06:54PEOPLE MOVE AROUND AND HAVE ALL KINDS OF MEETINGS.
01:06:57AND THEN TALK ABOUT, OH, I MET
01:06:59THIS VERY IMPORTANT OFFICIAL IN
01:07:02THIS FOREIGN GOVERNMENT, IN THIS BOARD ROOM IN SOME FOREIGN
01:07:06CAPITAL. THIS STUFF HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
01:07:09WE HAVE MADE IT CLEAR TO THE UNITED STATES THAT WE EXPECT
01:07:13THEM TO RESPECT THE SOVEREIGNTY OF CANADA.
01:07:16WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS
01:07:18THAT'S RUN UNDER CANADIAN LAW. IN THIS CASE, THE LAW OF THE
01:07:22PROVINCE OF ALBERTA.
01:07:25AND WE HAVE MADE IT CLEAR AT THE VERY HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE
01:07:29UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT THEY'LL
01:07:33RESPECT OUR SOVEREIGNTY AS WE WILL ANOTHER FOREIGN COUNTRY
01:07:36GOING THROUGH AN OPEN AND FREE ELECTION. >> Rosemary: THIS PAST WEEK THE
01:07:40U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE JAMIESON GREER SAID THAT CANADA
01:07:42IS PREOCCUPIED WITH THE QUÉBEC ELECTION.
01:07:45WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S POINTING
01:07:47TO THAT AS THE FOCUS OF THE
01:07:49CANADIAN GOVERNMENT?
01:07:53>> I DON'T KNOW. I SPOKE TO JAMIESON GREER
01:07:55EARLIER THIS WEEK.
01:07:57WE HAD -- WE HAD A CONVERSATION
01:07:59THAT DIDN'T TOUCH ON THIS.
01:08:04JAMIESON AT VARIOUS TIMES ASKS ME ABOUT CANADIAN POLITICS. HE FOLLOWS.
01:08:08HE'S INTERESTED IN IT. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE U.S. CABINET-LEVEL SECRETARY
01:08:12IS FOLLOWING CANADIAN DOMESTIC POLITICS.
01:08:16I DON'T KNOW WHY HE WOULD HAVE SAID THAT.
01:08:18MY CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM WERE
01:08:20NOT FOCUSING ON PROVINCIAL ELECTION RESULTS.
01:08:23WE'RE FOCUSING ON TARIFFS THAT
01:08:26WE THINK ARE UNJUSTIFIED AND
01:08:28THAT ARE HURTING THE CANADIAN
01:08:30ECONOMY AND CREATING CIRCUMSTANCES FOR CANADIAN
01:08:34WORKERS THAT AREN'T HELPFUL. THAT'S THE FOCUS OF MY
01:08:37CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM. >> Rosemary: SO WHEN -- WHEN ARE
01:08:41THOSE CONVERSATIONS -- LIKE IT'S ENCOURAGING THAT YOU'RE BOTH
01:08:44SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER. WHEN DO THOSE CONVERSATIONS TURN
01:08:47INTO SOMETHING MORE? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE SEEING
01:08:50SOME OF THE DAMAGING EFFECTS OF TARIFFS.
01:08:53STELCO IS A SLIGHTLY UNUSUAL INSTANCE, BUT THAT'S SORT OF THE
01:08:56MOST RECENT ONE.
01:08:58WHETHER DO YOUR -- WHEN DO YOUR
01:09:01CALLS BECOME SOMETHING ELSE MORE FORMAL?
01:09:03WOULD IT BE AFTER THE MIDTERMS?
01:09:06>> AND YOU'RE RIGHT, ROSEMARY,
01:09:08IN A SENSE THAT WE ARE SEEING
01:09:11SOME OF THE EFFECTS OF THESE AMERICAN TARIFFS ON CERTAIN
01:09:15SECTORS OF THE CANADIAN ECONOMY.
01:09:17THE EXAMPLE OF STELCO IS ONE. IT'S TRUE IN OTHER SECTORS.
01:09:21IT'S TRUE IN SOFTWOOD LUMBER.
01:09:23IT'S TRUE IN SOME PARTS OF THE
01:09:25ECONOMY THAT WERE HIT WITH THESE
01:09:27TARIFFS IN THE SUMMER, THE 338 TARIFFS.
01:09:31WHAT WE'VE SAID TO THE AMERICANS -- THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID IT PUBLICLY.
01:09:35WE SAY IT TO OUR COUNTERPARTS
01:09:37WHEN WE TALK TO THEM PRIVATELY.
01:09:41WE'RE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE AN ARRANGEMENT THAT WE THINK IS IN
01:09:45THE ECONOMIC AND SOVEREIGN INTERESTS OF CANADA. THEY KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
01:09:49THEY KNOW WHERE WE WERE WHEN THE
01:09:52CONVERSATION OR THE NEGOTIATIONS -- THE FORMAL NEGOTIATIONS WERE
01:09:56INTERRUPTED AT THE END OF AUGUST.
01:09:59THE CONVERSATIONS AND AMBASSADOR
01:10:02GREER -- JAMIESON SAID THIS TO AMERICAN MEDIA. I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD WAY TO
01:10:06SAY IT. HE SAID IN HIS CONVERSATIONS
01:10:08WITH HIS COUNTERPART IN CANADA, IT'S ABOUT LOOKING FOR
01:10:12ALTERNATIVES TO THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCE.
01:10:14SO IT'S NOT A FORMAL NEGOTIATION.
01:10:16WE'RE NOT EXCHANGING LEGAL TEXTS
01:10:19OF AN AGREEMENT. >> Rosemary: YEP.
01:10:21>> BUT WE KNOW WHERE THE NEGOTIATIONS WERE INTERRUPTED AT
01:10:24THE END OF AUGUST. AND IF THERE'S A WAY TO PUT US
01:10:27ON A TRAJECTORY THAT BRINGS
01:10:29THESE TARIFFS DOWN AND SETS US
01:10:32UP IN A DIFFERENT ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCE, THEN THE PRIME
01:10:35MINISTER WILL HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE. AND WE'LL DECIDE AT THAT POINT
01:10:39IF THERE'S A NEGOTIATION TO RESUME. >> Rosemary: BUT IT DOES LOOK --
01:10:42AND THIS IS THE LAST QUESTION. IT DOES LOOK, MINISTER, LIKE THE
01:10:44MIDTERMS ARE GOING TO BE -- ARE
01:10:48GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
01:10:51SURELY THAT WOULD BE A WINDOW FOR THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT TO
01:10:54-- IF, YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION IS WEAKENED BY
01:10:57WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDTERMS.
01:11:01>> AND AGAIN, ROSEMARY, SURE. I'VE SEEN SPECULATION.
01:11:05POLITICAL SCIENTISTS SPEND A LOT OF TIME AND COMMENTATORS TALKING
01:11:09ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS ON THE OTHER
01:11:09SIDE OF THE MIDTERMS.
01:11:13THAT'S AN AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. AMERICANS WILL CHOOSE THEIR
01:11:16REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS. >> Rosemary: YEP. >> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S
01:11:19ADMINISTRATION WILL BE IN OFFICE FOR TWO MORE YEARS.
01:11:21AND A GREAT DEAL OF THE
01:11:25AUTHORITY THAT HE'S USING TO APPLY THE TARIFFS, OF COURSE, IS EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY.
01:11:29WHICH WON'T BE CHANGED BY THE MIDTERMS. >> Rosemary: RIGHT.
01:11:32>> WE'LL LET AMERICAN POLITICS PLAY OUT.
01:11:34WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO TRY
01:11:36AND REMAIN FOCUSED ON FINDING A
01:11:39DEAL THAT WOULD BE IN THE
01:11:51HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. >> Rosemary: STEEL MAKER STELCO
01:11:54SAYS IT IS PROCEEDING WITH ITS PLANNED LAYOFFS. THE COMPANY OUTLINED ITS
01:11:58RESPONSE TO OTTAWA IN A LETTER. WE'LL HEAR FROM THE C.E.O. OF
01:12:02CLEVELAND-CLIFFS, STELCO'S U.S. OWNER, FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE
01:12:04THE LATEST DEVELOPMENT. THAT EXCLUSIVE CONVERSATION COMING UP NEXT.
01:12:07♪♪
01:12:13♪ [upbe
01:14:35♪♪
01:14:39>> THESE OBLIGATIONS ARE BINDING.
01:14:42AND FAILING TO FOLLOW THEIR
01:14:47COMMITMENTS WILL RESULT BUY ACTIONS BY THE GOVERNMENT.
01:14:51AND SO BASICALLY MY POINT IS THEY NEED TO COMPLY.
01:14:55IF NOT, WE'LL USE THE FULL FORCE
01:14:57OF THE LAW.
01:15:00>> Rosemary: INDUSTRY MINISTER MELANIE JOLY ON THURSDAY WARNING
01:15:03OF LEGAL ACTION AGAINST STELCO. OTTAWA GAVE THE STEELMAKER FIVE
01:15:06DAYS TO RESPOND AFTER IT PLANS
01:15:08TO LAY OFF UP TO 500 WORKERS.
01:15:11CBC NEWS OBTAINED A COPY OF THE RESPONSE OVER THE WEEKEND.
01:15:14IT SAYS IT'S NOT VIOLATING ITS EMPLOYMENT COMMITMENTS.
01:15:17CLEVELAND-CLIFFS IS THE U.S.
01:15:26ROSEMARY. >> Rosemary: SO IN RESPONSE TO THE LETTER THAT STELCO SENT BACK
01:15:30TO THE GOVERNMENT OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS, MINISTER JOLY'S
01:15:34OFFICE SAYS THE GOVERNMENT EXPECTS STELCO TO MEET ITS
01:15:37LEGALLY BINDING COMMITMENTS TO EMPLOYEES.
01:15:40AND THEIR LEGAL TEAM, THE GOVERNMENT'S LEGAL TEAM IS GOING
01:15:43TO REVIEW YOUR LETTER.
01:15:45ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE.
01:15:47ARE YOU PREPARED TO FIGHT THIS
01:15:49IN COURT, MR. GONCALVES? >> I AM.
01:15:52AND JUST TO CLARIFY A FEW POINTS.
01:15:55WE HAVE BEEN IN DIRECT
01:15:58CONVERSATIONS WITH THE MINISTRY
01:16:01OF INNOVATION AND SCIENCE AND
01:16:03ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN CANADA. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
01:16:05>> AND IT'S NOT JUST ONE LETTER. IT'S TWO LETTERS THAT WE
01:16:09ACTUALLY SENT ON FRIDAY.
01:16:13ONE TO MINISTER JOLY TO REPLY TO
01:16:16HER PUBLIC LETTER, BECAUSE SHE SENT A PUBLIC LETTER TO ME.
01:16:20I REPLIED WITH A PUBLIC LETTER AS WELL.
01:16:22AND THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT
01:16:26GOES STRAIGHT TO THE DEPUTY MINISTER.
01:16:29>> Rosemary: DEPUTY MINISTER. YES.
01:16:31>> AND THAT OTHER ONE IS
01:16:35PRIVILEGED UNDER SECTION 36 OF
01:16:37THE INVESTMENT CANADA ACT.
01:16:39SO -- BUT, URN, WE DIDN'T NEED
01:16:43THE FIVE DAYS.
01:16:47THIS IS SO ABSURD. IT'S EASY TO COUNTER.
01:16:51>> Rosemary: LET ME GO TO THE ISSUE OF JOBS, WHICH IS CENTRAL TO THIS OBVIOUSLY.
01:16:54IT'S CANADIAN THANKSGIVING. SOME OF THESE WORKERS ARE BEING
01:16:58LAID OFF TODAY. AND STELCO IS SAYING IT'S
01:17:02COMPLIANT WITH ITS EMPLOYMENT COMMITMENTS AND THE UNDERTAKINGS
01:17:05DO NOT STIPULATE A COMMITMENT TO AVOID LAYOFFS.
01:17:08THAT WAS IN THE UNDERTAKING AN AGREEMENT TO EMPLOY THE SAME
01:17:11NUMBER OF UNIONIZED AND
01:17:13NONUNIONIZED EMPLOYEES WHEN THIS HAPPENED. SO HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT?
01:17:17WHY ARE YOU NOW SAYING THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO SOMETHING THAT
01:17:20THE UNDERTAKING SAYS YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING?
01:17:23>> YEAH.
01:17:26DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HAPPENED AT
01:17:29ALGOMA, IN WHICH THE REDUCTION
01:17:31IN JOBS WAS PERMANENT.
01:17:34AND THE SUBSIDIZED BY THE
01:17:37CANADIAN TAXPAYER.
01:17:39REMEMBER ALGONA GOT $500 MILLION
01:17:43FROM THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT. AND THEN SHUT DOWN THE -- THEY
01:17:47LAID OFF PERMANENTLY MORE THAN 1,000 WORKERS.
01:17:50IN OUR CASE, THE LAYOFFS ARE
01:17:54ONE, TEMPORARY. TWO, THEY WILL BE REVERSED.
01:17:57THREE, I DID NOT ACCEPT CANADIAN
01:18:00TAXPAYER MONEY TO DO THAT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE COMPLETE
01:18:03LI NAKED COMBAT. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.
01:18:07I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. BY THE WAY, NO REASON TO BELIEVE
01:18:10THAT THERE'S ANY OTHER
01:18:13CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND WHAT'S
01:18:18OBVIOUS. BY THE WAY, I NEVER MET MINISTER LEBLANC.
01:18:21HE SOUNDS LIKE A LEVEL-LED THE
01:18:25PERSON. AND AND HIS INTERVIEW WITH YOU A
01:18:28FEW MINUTES AGO WAS SPOT ON. >> Rosemary: TO GO BACK TO THE
01:18:32ISSUE OF THE JOBS. WHEN YOU TOOK OVER THE COMPANY,
01:18:34I REMEMBER BECAUSE WE SPOKE AT THE TIME.
01:18:37ONE OF YOUR COMMITMENTS UNDER THE INVESTMENT CANADA ACT WAS YOU HAD TO KEEP THE LEVEL OF
01:18:41EMPLOYEES THE SAME.
01:18:45.
01:18:50HOW IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO BE LAYING OFF PEOPLE?
01:18:52>> THE LAST TIME WE REPORTED TO
01:18:54THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT IN COMPLIANCE.
01:18:57I EXPECTED NEXT TIME I'LL BE IN
01:19:01COMPLIANCE AGAIN. THERE'S NO PROVISION IN THE
01:19:03CONTRACT THAT I HAVE TO KEEP
01:19:06EMPLOYMENT AT A CERTAIN LEVEL EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE FIVE
01:19:10YEARS. IF THAT WAS AN IMPOSITION OF THE
01:19:13CANADIAN GOVERNMENT, I WOULD NOT
01:19:16HAVE ACCEPTED.
01:19:19UNDERTAKER -- DECREES ARE NOT IMPOSED TO THE BUYER.
01:19:21THIS IS A CONTRACT.
01:19:23I ONLY INVESTED $3.4 BILLION
01:19:27BECAUSE -- TO BUY STELCO BECAUSE
01:19:30I BELIEVE CANADA IS A COUNTRY OF
01:19:33LOSS. AND THERE'S NO PROVISION IN THE
01:19:35CONTRACT THAT FORCED ME TO HAVE
01:19:38THIS SAME EMPLOYMENT LEVEL EVERY
01:19:40SINGLE DAY OF THE FIVE YEARS. >> Rosemary: OKAY.
01:19:44>> MINISTER JOLY IS ELECTED NOT
01:19:48TO ACCEPT. >> Rosemary: LET ME ASK YOU
01:19:50ABOUT TARIFFS. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS -- THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE TARIFFS.
01:19:54ARE YOU IN FAVOUR OF TARIFFS
01:19:57FROM THE U.S. ADMINISTRATION,
01:19:59THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AGAINST CANADA?
01:20:02>> I AM IN FAVOUR OF TARIFFS
01:20:05AGAINST ALL THE COUNTRIES IN THE
01:20:07ENTIRE WORLD THAT DUMP STEEL
01:20:09INTO THE UNITED STATES.
01:20:12BECAUSE PRESIDENT TRUMP
01:20:15IMPLEMENTED IN THE UNITED STATES -- SECTION 232 IS TARIFFS.
01:20:19BASED ON NATIONAL SECURITY. WE FINALLY HAVE THE AMERICAN
01:20:23STEEL INDUSTRY BACK.
01:20:23WE ARE NOW THE THIRD LARGEST
01:20:28PRODUCING STEEL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. AND WE'RE FOURTH FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
01:20:32SO THINGS ARE GETTING MUCH BETTER IN THE UNITED STATES.
01:20:34SO I'M IN FAVOUR OF SECTION 232 TARIFFS.
01:20:38NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.
01:20:40BUT I'M WITH THE SAME POSITION
01:20:44OF -- MINISTER DOMINIC LEBLANC.
01:20:46WE NEED TO NEGOTIATE A SEPARATE SITUATION BETWEEN THE UNITED
01:20:50STATES AND CANADA. THAT HAS BEEN MY POSITION ALL ALONG.
01:20:53AND I AM THE BIGGEST APPROPRIATE
01:20:57OF NORTH AMERICA IN BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT
01:21:01FORTRESS, I'LL BE GLAD TO TALK. >> Rosemary: WELL, BUT BEING IN
01:21:05FAVOUR OF THE TERRORISTS, HAS IT NOT LED TO THIS OUTCOME?
01:21:08DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING HERE?
01:21:11>> ROSEMARY, I'M IN FAVOUR OF
01:21:13TARIFFS IN THE UNITED STATES.
01:21:16I'M IN FAVOUR OF TARIFFS AGAINST
01:21:18ALL COUNTRIES THAT DUMP STEEL IN THE UNITED STATES.
01:21:21THE SITUATION BETWEEN CANADA AND
01:21:24THE UNITED STATES IS STARTING TO BE RESOLVED.
01:21:27BECAUSE I STOPPED SELLING.
01:21:32FIRST DAY THAT WAS ONLY STELCO, I STOPPED SELLING AT LOW PRICE
01:21:35INTO THE UNITED STATES.
01:21:38SO THAT WOULD HAVE RESULT -- I
01:21:40DON'T CONTROL ANYTHING BEYOND
01:21:43STELCO. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
01:21:45>> THE FLOW OF ARTIFICIALLY CHEAP STEEL INTO THE UNITED
01:21:49STATES FROM CANADA, ONLY THE TARIFFS CAN DO THAT.
01:21:53THAT SAID WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION OF THE
01:21:56UNITED STATES AND CANADA.
01:21:59AND THAT'S WHAT WAS BEING NEGOTIATED. AND IT WAS INTERRUPTED IN THE
01:22:03MIDDLE OF THE NEGOTIATIONS.
01:22:05WE WOULD HAVE A MUCH BETTER
01:22:07SITUATION IF THE PATH THAT WE
01:22:09STARTED IN JUNE OF 2025 -- IT
01:22:13WAS APPROVED IN DECEMBER OF
01:22:192025. WE WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A MORE
01:22:23COMPREHENSIVE FORTRESS NORTH AMERICA AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA.
01:22:27>> Rosemary: YES. I UNDERSTAND. YES.
01:22:30SORRY, I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME, MR. GONCALVES.
01:22:32I UNDERSTAND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE TAXPAYER MONEY IN ORDER TO
01:22:36HELP THINGS. BUT THE GOVERNMENT DID MAKE
01:22:39VARIOUS OFFERS TO AVOID THIS OUTCOME. WHY DID YOU NOT ACCEPT ANY OF THEM?
01:22:43WHY DID YOU NOT TRY TO FIND A
01:22:44WAY OUT OF THIS?
01:22:48>> BECAUSE THE PART THAT I HAVE
01:22:50TO COMPARE IS ALGOMA.
01:22:54ALGOMA TOOK MONEY.
01:22:55$500 MILLION FROM THE GOVERNMENT
01:22:58TO SHUT DOWN AND LAY OFF
01:23:02PERMANENTLY 1,000 WORKERS. I DON'T DO THESE THINGS.
01:23:06>> Rosemary: MR. GONCALVES, WOULD YOU CONSIDER -- WOULD YOU
01:23:07CONSIDER SELLING THE COMPANY?
01:23:10>> FOR A GOOD OFFER, YES.
01:23:13BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT BEING IN CANADA WITH A GREAT WORKFORCE
01:23:17THAT I HAVE THERE, UNDER THE
01:23:19CURRENT TRADE CIRCUMSTANCES,
01:23:21ABSOLUTELY WE CAN CONTINUE TO BE
01:23:23A GOOD -- A GOOD CITIZEN IN CANADA.
01:23:26WE'LL CONTINUE TO EMPLOY ALL THE
01:23:30WORKFORCE THAT I HAVE THERE WHEN WE BOUGHT THE COMPANY.
01:23:33WE'LL CONTINUE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE.
01:23:36LIKE I SAID, IT'S A CONTRACT.
01:23:39>> Rosemary: LET ME END ON THIS, MR. GONCALVES. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE
01:23:43WORKERS WHO BELIEVED THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU'VE LET THEM DOWN AND
01:23:46THAT YOU DIDN'T KEEP UP YOUR END OF THE DEAL.
01:23:50>> I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE BEING PLAYED.
01:23:54I BELIEVE THAT HAVING THE PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA, A PERSON
01:23:57THAT I HAVE NEVER MET, SAY THAT
01:23:59I BETRAYED MY EMPLOYEES, THIS IS
01:24:02NOT TRUE.
01:24:04THIS WAS PRIME MINISTER CARNEY
01:24:07REPEATING WHAT MINISTER JOLY SAID WITHOUT THINKING. HE'S A BUSY GUY.
01:24:11PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT MR. LEBLANC IS DOING.
01:24:15DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE RHETORIC OF PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST
01:24:19PLAYING POLITICS. >> Rosemary: OKAY.
01:24:21>> WE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER TASK AT
01:24:25HAND. HAPPY THANKSGIVING. THIS IS THE LAST THANKSGIVING
01:24:28THAT YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB. YOU'RE GOING TO BE BROUGHT BACK OPINION.
01:24:37>> Rosemary: HAVE A GOOD DAY. WE'VE HEARD FROM THE BUSINESS
01:24:39PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THE LAYOFFS. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE POLITICAL PART OF THIS STORY.
01:24:43OUR "SUNDAY SCRUM" HAVE BEEN LEAPLEAPING IN -- HAVE BEEN
01:24:47LISTENING IN AND THEY'LL RESPOND AFTER THIS BREAK. YOU'RE WATCHING "R.B.L."
01:24:51♪♪ >> The d
01:27:09♪♪
01:27:14>> PRIME MINISTER CARNEY
01:27:16REPEATING WHAT MINISTER JOLY SAID WITHOUT THINKING.
01:27:20HE'S A BUSY GUY. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT MINISTER
01:27:23LEBLANC IS DOING. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE
01:27:27RHETORIC OF PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST PLAYING POLITICS.
01:27:30WE HAVE A MUCH BIGGER TASK AT HAND.
01:27:32AND YOU'RE GOING TO BE BROUGHT BACK. HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
01:27:35THIS IS THE LAST THANKSGIVING THAT YOU ARE OUT OF A JOB.
01:27:39YOU'RE GOING TO BE BROUGHT BACK. >> Rosemary: THE C.E.O. OF
01:27:42CLEVELAND-CLIFFS THERE ABOUT HOW THE COMPANY'S RESPONDING TO
01:27:45OTTAWA'S CRITICISM OF THOSE LAYOFFS AT STELCO. LET'S BRING IN OUR "SUNDAY
01:27:48SCRUM" TO TALK ABOUT IT. CHARELLE EVELYN IS THE MANAGING
01:27:51EDITOR AT THE HILL TIMES, ROBERT
01:27:53BENZIE THE QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE "TORONTO STAR,"
01:27:56AND ROB SHAW POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AT CHEK NEWS.
01:28:00HE'S IN VICTORIA. ROBERT BENZIE, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.
01:28:03WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE EXPLANATION THERE BY THE C.E.O.
01:28:07OF CLEVELAND-CLIFFS? >> WELL, THAT WAS A GOOD INTERVIEW, ROSY.
01:28:10HE MADE SOME NEWS. SOME HEADLINES OUT THEREOF.
01:28:12BASICALLY SAYING THAT CARNEY AND
01:28:15JOLY ARE PLAYING POLITICS AND
01:28:17THE WORKERS ARE BEING PLAYED.
01:28:21AND I ALSO STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT HE -- HE SAID HE WOULD BE
01:28:24WILLING TO SELL THE COMPANY IF THEY GET A GOOD OFFER.
01:28:27I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST OUTCOME.
01:28:29BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS THAT HE
01:28:31IS -- HE IS A TRUMP-SUPPORTING
01:28:36STEEL TYCOON. UNDERSTANDABLY IT'S GOOD FOR HIS BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES.
01:28:39WHAT'S GOOD FOR HIS COMPANY IN THE UNITED STATES IS NOT GOOD FOR HIS COMPANY IN CANADA.
01:28:43AND THIS IS THE SIGNIFICANT ISSUE, ROSY.
01:28:46THERE'S 23,000 STEEL WORKERS IN CANADA. MOST OF THEM IN ONTARIO.
01:28:50THIS IS A HUGE, HUGE BLOW.
01:28:52I WAS -- I FOUND IT OUT THAT HE
01:28:54WOULD SAY THAT, DON'T WORRY,
01:28:57YOU'LL BE BACK. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE KNOWS ABOUT HOW THE DISPUTE KNOWS THAT THE
01:29:01REST OF US DON'T KNOW. HOW DOES HE KNOW THE WORKERS
01:29:04WILL BE BACK BY THANKSGIVING 2027. >> Rosemary: I DON'T KNOW.
01:29:08I MEAN, MAYBE HE THINKS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A DEAL. YOU KNOW, MAYBE HE THINKS THAT
01:29:11THEY'RE GOING TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE THE TARIFFS WILL BE LOWERED.
01:29:14THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT -- MAYBE HE KNOWS.
01:29:18YEAH. I AGREE. I'M NOT SURE THAT WE KNOW THAT EITHER.
01:29:21ROB SHAW, THOUGH, IT IS SORT OF -- WHAT'S SO INTERESTING ABOUT
01:29:25THE STORY AND OBVIOUSLY UPSETTING FOR MANY PEOPLE IN
01:29:29HAMILTON, IT'S SORT OF A DIRECT
01:29:31EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING TO CANADIANS.
01:29:33AND IN THIS CASE, REALLY DEVASTATING FOR THE CITY OF
01:29:37HAMILTON, WHO I DON'T KNOW THAT THOSE JOBS ARE COMING BACK EITHER, IN SPITE OF WHAT THE
01:29:41C.E.O. SAID. >> NO. AND, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT
01:29:45THEY'LL COME BACK WITH A TRADE DEAL MAKES THE ASSUMPTION THAT
01:29:48THE AMERICANS WANT A TRADE DEAL.
01:29:51AND THAT WITH MIDTERMS IN THREE WEEKS, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT
01:29:54TRYING TO SHOW THAT HE'S BRINGING STEEL JOBS BACK TO THE
01:29:57UNITED STATES. THIS ISN'T REALLY THE OUTCOME
01:30:00THAT TRUMP WANTS IN THE SHORT-TERM.
01:30:02SO I DON'T -- I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT ARGUMENT KIND OF REACHES
01:30:05THE CIRCLE. AND TO PICK UP ON ROB'S POINT
01:30:09THERE, IF THE BEST OUTCOME FOR THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT IS TO
01:30:12FORCE A SALE HERE, THROUGH COURT
01:30:13ACTION AND A COURT DIVESTITURE,
01:30:16WHO IS GOING TO BUY STELCO? IS IT A PRIVATE SALE?
01:30:19IS IT A GOVERNMENT PURCHASE AT SOME POINT AS PART OF THE
01:30:23CONTINUING KIND OF BUILD CANADA,
01:30:26SECURE THE SUPPLY CHAIN, BUY A PIPELINE.
01:30:28YOU CAN BUY A STEEL PLANT.
01:30:31THOSE ARE ALL INTERESTING OUTCOMES. THE OTHER FLAW IN THE ARGUMENT FROM THE C.E.O. THERE IS THE
01:30:35IDEA THAT HE THINKS THE PRIME
01:30:38MINISTER -- THAT THE INDUSTRY MINISTER HAS LINES THE PRIME
01:30:42MINISTER HASN'T SEEN. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
01:30:46THE INDUSTRY MINISTER IS READING THE LINES FROM THE PRIME MINISTER'S OFFICE IS HOW I WOULD
01:30:50READ THAT. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
01:30:52CHARELLE, IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE MR. GONCALVES IS READY TO GO TO
01:30:56COURT IN THIS CASE. AND I DON'T KNOW POLITICALLY
01:31:00WHETHER THAT IS A GREAT IDEA. BUT, I MEAN, THE GOVERNMENT
01:31:03CAN'T JUST SIT THERE AND LET THIS UNFOLD. >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
01:31:07I WOULD SAY THAT POLITICALLY IT
01:31:09ACTUALLY MIGHT BE THE BETTER OPTION.
01:31:12BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YES, THERE'S THE TIME ELEMENT OF IT.
01:31:15HOW DO YOU SUPPORT THE WORKERS. THAT'S A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY.
01:31:17BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO BE SEEN TO
01:31:20BE LOOKING TO ENFORCE THE DEALS THAT ARE MADE.
01:31:23AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE
01:31:26JUST LINGERING IN THE WIND. >> Rosemary: YEAH. >> YEAH.
01:31:29IT COMES BACK DOWN TO, YES,
01:31:33PEOPLE KNOW THAT DEALING WITH DONALD TRUMP IS NOT NECESSARILY
01:31:36A LINEAR BLACK AND WHITE SORT OF THING THAT HAPPENS.
01:31:40AND POLLING SHOWS THAT CANADIANS
01:31:43GENERALLY SUPPORT HAVING NO DEAL WITH THE U.S. VERSUS A BAD DEAL.
01:31:47BUT WHEN THINGS AREN'T -- AREN'T
01:31:51POLITICAL OR PATRIOTIC POSITION, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO PEOPLE WHO
01:31:54ARE ACTUALLY AFFECTED IN TANGIBLE WAYS LIKE LOSING THEIR
01:31:57JOBS OVER THANKSGIVING, HOW DO YOU SUPPORT PEOPLE. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
01:32:01>> THEN, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL QUESTIONS.
01:32:04DO WE PUSH THE COMPANY TO SELL?
01:32:06DO WE NATIONALIZE THINGS IS
01:32:10NEVER A STRAIGHTFORWARD APPROACH. >> Rosemary: NO. >> IT PUSHES ABOUT -- WHERE THE
01:32:13GOVERNMENT WANTS TO SPEND ITS MONEY. WHAT IT WANTS TO SPEND ITS MONEY
01:32:17ON. SHOULD THE FREE MARKET BE SUPPORTING IT? OBVIOUSLY IT CAN'T. LOOK AT CANADA POST.
01:32:21YOU HAVE THE QUESTIONS ABOUT, WELL, WHY IS IT MAKING MONEY?
01:32:24IT'S REALLY A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION AT THAT POINT. >> Rosemary: YEAH.
01:32:27>> YOU WANT TO TRY TO MITIGATE
01:32:29THE DAMAGE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
01:32:32>> Rosemary: THE C.E.O.'S POINT WAS WE SAID WE'D KEEP THE SAME
01:32:36NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES. WE DIDN'T SAY IT WOULD BE THE SAME EVERY YEAR, WHICH I DON'T
01:32:39KNOW LEGALLY HOW VIABLE THAT IS.
01:32:43IT'S A BIG RED FLAG ABOUT SELLING THESE KINDS OF COMPANIES
01:32:47TO AMERICAN COMPANIES AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.
01:32:49IT'S JUST -- IT'S MAYBE NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE DOING.
01:32:53>> YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S A TOUGH ONE.
01:32:55BUT, I MEAN, ESPECIALLY THE PRIME MINISTER, YOU KNOW, JUST A
01:32:59MONTH AGO WAS HAVING THIS BIG INVESTMENT SUMMIT HERE IN TORONTO. >> Rosemary: THAT'S RIGHT.
01:33:02>> AND SAYING CANADA IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS.
01:34:53>> HAPPY THANKSGIVING.
01:34:56>> Rosemary: ALBERTANS JUST DAYS AWAY FROM A REFERENDUM WHICH WILL ASK THEM, AMONGST OTHER
01:35:00THINGS, WHETHER THEY WANT THE PROVINCE TO REMAIN IN CANADA. I'LL SPEAK WITH THE PROVINCE'S
01:35:04FORMER PREMIER ABOUT WHY SHE BELIEVES THE CURRENT PREMIER HAS
01:35:07BEEN THROWING GAS ON THE PROVERBIAL SEPARATIST FIRE.
01:35:11YOU'RE WATCHING "R.B.L." ♪♪
01:37:51♪♪
01:37:58>> Rosemary: ALBERTANS JUST
01:37:59EIGHT DAY ACE -- DAYS AWAY FROMA
01:38:03REFERENDUM. WHETHER TO REMAIN IN CANADA OR
01:38:06BEGIN THE PROCESS OF SEPARATING.
01:38:12SOME OF THE CRITICS LIKE FORMER PREMIER RACHEL NOTLEY SAY
01:38:15SMITH'S ACTIONS LIKE LOWERING
01:38:18THE THRESHOLD FOR CITIZEN-LED PETITIONS HELPED SEPARATIST GET
01:38:22TO THIS POINT.
01:38:23I SPOKE ABOUT THE RHETORIC ABOUT
01:38:35>> Rosemary: I'M GOING TO START WITH THE ONE THAT MAYBE TOOK UP
01:38:37A FAIR AMOUNT OF SPACE THIS WEEK
01:38:40THE ELON MUSK POST ON X. SAYING THAT ALBERTA,
01:38:43SASKATCHEWAN AND QUÉBEC SHOULD ALL SEPARATE FROM CANADA.
01:38:47I WONDER WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT, A U.S. GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW,
01:38:51OFFICIAL OR EX-OFFICIAL, PEOPLE
01:38:54LIKE MUSK ARE INFLUENCING CANADIAN POLITICS AT THIS MOMENT?
01:38:58TIME? >> WE ALL KNOW THAT'S INCREDIBLY
01:39:02INAPPROPRIATE AND DISRESPECTFUL.
01:39:05IT'S NOT NEW BEHAVIOUR OUT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION AND SUPPORTERS OF SAME OVER THE
01:39:08COURSE OF THE LAST MANY MONTHS.
01:39:13BUT I THINK THAT FOLKS THINK THAT THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE
01:39:16GAINED FOR ALBERTANS BY
01:39:18SEPARATING OUGHT TO ASK THEMSELVES WHY CERTAIN FOLKS
01:39:22SOUTH OF THE BORDER THINK THEY
01:39:25HAVE SOMETHING TO GAIN FROM ALBERTA SEPARATING.
01:39:29I THINK WE ALL KNOW ALBERTA IS STRONGER WITHIN CANADA.
01:39:32AND I THINK THE EFFORTS BY THE
01:39:35MINORITY OF FOLKS FROM THE U.S., WHO ARE INTERESTED IN SEEING
01:39:38CANADA WEAKENED SHOULD DELIVER A
01:39:42MESSAGE TO ALBERTANS ON THE FENCE THAT, IN FACT, ALBERTA IS
01:39:45STRONGER WITHIN CANADA. >> Rosemary: THIS HAPPENED, OF
01:39:48COURSE, THE SAME WEEK THAT WE SAW THIS REPORTING FROM "THE
01:39:51GLOBE AND MAIL" THAT SHOWED THAT ALBERTA SEPARATISTS MET WITH
01:39:55STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS THREE TIMES. AND THAT NOT ONLY MET WITH THEM
01:39:58AND TALKED TO THEM, BUT SAID, HEY, IF YOU WANT OUR WATER, OUR
01:40:02RESOURCE ROYALTIES, WE CAN DO THAT FOR YOU IF YOU HELP US.
01:40:05WHAT DID YOU -- MAKE OF THAT RET
01:40:09THAT ALBERTA SEPARATISTS ARE SEEKING SUPPORT FROM PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES?
01:40:13>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S
01:40:17PROFOUNDLY IRONIC. I MEAN, HERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE
01:40:21COMPLAINING OVER THE FACT THAT
01:40:22THEY PERCEIVE -- OR OTTAWA TAKES
01:40:25TOO MUCH OUT OF ALBERTA AND
01:40:29THEY'RE PLANNING TO FINANCE THEIR DEPARTURE FROM CANADA BY
01:40:32TAKING EVEN MORE TO ALBERTA'S
01:40:35WEALTH AND GIVING IT TO A
01:40:39SOURCE, WHICH IS EVEN FARTHER
01:40:41AWAY FROM ALBERTA, OVER WHOM WE HAVE LESS CONTROL IN AGENCY.
01:40:44SO IT REALLY GOES TO SHOW THAT
01:40:47IT'S NOT ABOUT GROWING THE BEST
01:40:51OUTCOMES FOR ALBERTA CITIZENS. IT'S RATHER ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
01:40:55SMALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE THINKING THAT THEY HAVE MORE POWER AND
01:40:58DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIPS. SO, ANYWAY, BUT ALSO OF COURSE
01:41:02IT'S DEEPLY INAPPROPRIATE. OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT AGENTS OF
01:41:05THE GOVERNMENT. >> Rosemary: YEAH. >> IT'S HARD TO SAY.
01:41:08AS A WHOLE, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING
01:41:10AT WHETHER THERE'S A LEGAL FRAMEWORK TO PUT IN PLACE TO
01:41:13LIMIT THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY. THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO CAPACITY
01:41:17TO MAKE ANY KIND OF PROMISE LIKE THAT.
01:41:20BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT ANYBODY TOOK THE TIME TO FAKE
01:41:24THEIR MEETINGS -- TO TAKE THEIR
01:41:29MEETINGS. >> Rosemary: YOU KNOW PREMIER
01:41:30SMITH FACED CRITICISM THROUGH THIS.
01:41:34LOWER THE THRESHOLD FOR CITIZEN-LED PETITIONS ON SEPARATION.
01:41:37SHE HAS A VARIETY OF OTHER QUESTIONS ALBERTANS ARE BEING ASKED.
01:41:40JUST CHOOSING TO PUT THIS QUESTION ON THE TABLE.
01:41:44DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WAS A MISTAKE? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SHE THINKS
01:41:47THAT THIS IS -- SHE HOPES THAT THIS WILL SORT OF CLOSE THE
01:41:51CONVERSATION IN ALBERTA.
01:41:53>> WELL, I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKE THAT POSITION THAT
01:41:57OBVIOUSLY SHE HOPES BECAUSE SHE SUPPORTS CANADA.
01:42:01BUT HONESTLY I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT THAT IS THE CASE.
01:42:05I THINK SOMEBODY THAT SUPPORTS CANADA WOULD DO A MUCH BETTER
01:42:08JOB OF SUPPORTING ALBERTA
01:42:10STASTAYING IN CANADA THAN THIS PREMIER HAS.
01:42:13WHEN THE RUBBER HITS THE ROAD, EVERY TIME SHE'S COMPELLED TO
01:42:17MAKE A DECISION ON THE MATTER, SHE'S MADE A DECISION THAT
01:42:19SUPPORTS THE SEPARATISTS OR SUPPORTS HER OWN PATH TO
01:42:23RETAINING POWER.
01:42:23BUT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HAS
01:42:27SHE EVER DONE ALBERTA REMAINING IN CANADA.
01:42:31THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS, DANIELLE SMITH HAS VERY CLEARLY PAVED THE
01:42:35WAY FOR THE SEPARATIST QUESTION ALL ALONG.
01:42:38SHE'S NOT IN ANY WAY HOLDING HER CAUCUS OR HER PARTY TO ACCOUNT
01:42:42FOR THE FACT THAT THEY ARE
01:42:44PURSUING A SEPARATIST AGENDA.
01:42:47AND ON TOP OF IT, THIS IS TURNED
01:42:50OUT TO BE A HUGE DISTRACTION
01:42:54FROM OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE SQUARELY WITHIN THE AREA OF
01:42:57RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT. WHERE THEY ARE FAILING AND
01:43:01ALBERTANS ARE SUFFERING AS A RESULT.
01:43:04>> Rosemary: TO BE FAIR, THE PREMIER DID JUST NEGOTIATE THE
01:43:06NEXT PHASE OF A SECOND PIPELINE.
01:43:08SHE HAS EXTRACTED OTHER THINGS
01:43:11FROM OTTAWA THROUGH THE PAST --
01:43:14SINCE PRIME MINISTER CARNEY CAME
01:43:17INTO OFFICE.
01:43:19IS SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO
01:43:23BETTER THEIR PROVINCE. DOES IT NOT?
01:43:25>> I GUESS -- I MEAN, WHAT I
01:43:30WILL SAY IS THAT THOSE PIECES
01:43:33ARE THINGS THAT -- YES, IT STRENGTHENS -- IT MAY STRENGTHEN ALBERTA.
01:43:37WE'LL SEE. I MEAN, WE'LL SEE WHERE IT ALL
01:43:39ENDS UP AT THE END OF THE DAY.
01:43:42ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT IS
01:43:44TRYING VERY HARD TO RESPOND TO
01:43:48THE CONCERNS OF ALBERTANS THAT
01:43:49HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED ACROSS THE BOARD.
01:43:53AND I THINK IT'S HARD FOR HER
01:43:54NOT TO ENGAGE IN THAT.
01:43:58BUT I DON'T SEE THE CALLING OF THE REFERENDUM AS A STRATEGIC
01:44:02PLOY ON HER PART TO KILL THE ISSUE.
01:44:04I THINK SHE'S BEEN THROWING GAS ON THE FIRE FROM DAY ONE.
01:44:08>> Rosemary: SO, YOU KNOW, THE POLLS RIGHT NOW SUGGEST THAT
01:44:10THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AHEAD.
01:44:13BUT THERE IS CONCERN I THINK
01:44:16THAT IF THE PERCENTAGE IS HIGH
01:44:19ENOUGH, IT WILL GIVE THE MESSAGE
01:44:21THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR
01:44:24SEPARATIST PARTY, A POLITICAL MOVEMENT IN ALBERTA.
01:44:26DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE?
01:44:30DO YOU THINK THAT IT WILL BECOME SOMETHING MORE FORMALIZED THE
01:44:33WAY IT IS IN QUÉBEC?
01:44:37>> I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE.
01:44:39RIGHT NOW THE U.C.P. ITSELF IS
01:44:42DOMINATED BY SEPARATISTS. YOU KNOW, EVEN IF ONE TAKES THE
01:44:45MOST GENEROUS APPROACH TO
01:44:48DANIELLE SMITH'S MOTIVATIONS ON
01:44:51THIS, THAT GENEROUS APPROACH
01:44:54SUGGESTS WHAT SHE'S DOING IS
01:44:56SUCCEEDING TO THE DOMINANT INFLUENCES WITHIN THEIR OWN PARTY.
01:45:00THEY'VE BEEN CLEAR THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BACK DOWN ON THIS.
01:45:03I THINK THERE'S A STRUCTURAL
01:45:05PROBLEM IN THE U.C.P. RIGHT NOW
01:45:10BECAUSE THEY'RE HIGHLY CONFLICTED ON THIS MATTER. ROUGHLY 50/50.
01:45:13THE ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP AND THE
01:45:14SUPPORT GROUP.
01:45:20I WISH WE WOULD SEE THE END OF THIS. WE'LL CONTINUE TO SEE PATHWAYS
01:45:24FOR THESE FOLKS UNTIL THE PARTY
01:45:30REINVENTING ITSELF OR THE GOVERNMENT CHANGES.
01:45:34>> Rosemary: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO ALBERTANS, SOME OF WHOM VOTE
01:45:37TO GO FORWARD, THEY BELIEVE IT'S A LEVERAGE POINT.
01:45:40THEY CAN SEND A MESSAGE TO OTTAWA THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED.
01:45:44YOU I'M SURE ALSO UNDERSTAND
01:45:47FRUSTRATIONS THAT SOME ALBERTANS HAVE. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM,
01:45:50WELL, I JUST WANT TO SEND A
01:45:53MESSAGE TO THE FEDERAL
01:45:57GOVERNMENT.
01:45:57>> I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY STRO-
01:46:02STRONGLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECEIVED THE MESSAGE. I DON'T THINK THIS HELPS.
01:46:06I THINK THE MESSAGE BEING SENT RIGHT NOW IS NOT BEING SENT NOT
01:46:09TO OTTAWA, BUT TO INVESTORS
01:46:12AROUND THE WORLD.
01:46:14AND ALSO TO PERSPECTIVE
01:46:18EMPLOYEES. AND AS WELL TO CLIENTS AND
01:46:21CUSTOMERS AND SUPPLIERS.
01:46:22AND THAT MESSAGE IS YOU CANNOT
01:46:25COUNT ON THE STABILITY OF ALBERTA. AND YOU CANNOT COUNT ON THE
01:46:29STABILITY OF YOUR INVESTMENTS IN ALBERTA.
01:46:32SO I THINK THAT THAT -- THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO RETHINK WHAT IT
01:46:47IDEA OF AN INDEPENDENT ALBERTA,
01:47:00>> Rosemary: SO YOU ARE VOTING
01:47:03IN FAVOUR THE NEXT STEP FOR
01:47:04THIS, FOR A REFERENDUM ON
01:47:08INDEPENDENCE. TELL ME WHY. TELL ME THE THINGS YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT.
01:47:12>> REALLY, MY BIGGEST BEEF AND
01:47:15THIS GOES RIGHT BACK TO THE
01:47:17BEGINNING OF -- HOW WE WERE SET
01:47:21UP IN CANADA.
01:47:22WE NEED FAIR AND EQUAL
01:47:25REPRESENTATION FOR CANADIANS AND
01:47:27WE HAVE NOT HAD THAT.
01:47:30MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT OUR REPRESENTATION IN THE HOUSE OF
01:47:33COMMONS AND THE SENATE IS BASED ON POPULATION. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE HOUSE
01:47:37OF COMMONS, THAT'S ONLY ACTUALLY IN THREE DIFFERENT PROVINCES.
01:47:39ALBERTA, B.C., AND ONTARIO.
01:47:42EVERY OTHER PROVINCE HAS ONE OR
01:47:44TWO SPECIAL CLAUSES APPLIED TO
01:47:49THEIR POPULATION NUMBER. WHICH SKEWS THE FAIR AND EQUAL
01:47:53REPRESENTATION. THAT'S LED TO A LOT OF POLITICAL GAMES THAT HAVE BEEN USED ON THE
01:47:56CANADIAN PEOPLE TO DIVIDE US.
01:47:59AND WE ARE WHERE WE ARE SIMPLY
01:48:02BECAUSE OF THIS ONE FACT. ALL OF THE PROBLEMS ARE A
01:48:05SYMPTOM OF THIS ONE PROBLEM. IN THE LAST FEDERAL ELECTION, WE
01:48:09ADDED SEATS IN B.C., ALBERTA AND ONTARIO.
01:48:11THOSE ARE THE ONLY THREE PROVINCES WHERE IT IS STRICTLY POPULATION.
01:48:15BUT EVERYTHING ELSE HAS THOSE SPECIAL CLAUSES APPLIED THAT
01:48:18SKEWS THAT IDEA OF FAIRNESS. >> Rosemary: OKAY.
01:48:21SO WHAT IS IT THAT YOU THINK IS
01:48:25-- WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THEN?
01:48:26DO YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE DON'T
01:48:31GET -- ALBERTA DOESN'T GET ENOUGH ATTENTION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?
01:48:33I'M JUST TRYING TO BE A LITTLE MORE CONCISE. YEAH.
01:48:37>> WELL, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY IT'S ATTENTION. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S REALLY
01:48:40WHAT IT IS. IT'S REPRESENTATION.
01:48:43OUR VOICES AND OUR OPINIONS ARE,
01:48:46OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR ECONOMIES
01:48:51DO NOT COUNT AS MUCH WHEN IT COMES TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MAKING CERTAIN DECISIONS AS
01:48:54OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY.
01:48:58AND AGAIN THAT'S A REFLECTION OF THE SYSTEM THAT WE ARE LIVING UNDER.
01:49:02>> Rosemary: AND HOW DOES THAT
01:49:05MANIFEST ITSELF DO YOU THINK IN TERMS OF WHAT ALBERTA HAS OR
01:49:08DOESN'T HAVE OR NEEDS?
01:49:10>> WELL, OUR INDUSTRY, OUR
01:49:15AGRICULTURE AND OUR OIL AND GAS
01:49:18REPUBLICAN OFTEN THE BRUNT OR
01:49:22BLAMED FOR ENVIRONMENTAL
01:49:24CONDITIONS, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LIVED IN MAJOR OIL AND GAS
01:49:28COUNTRY AND I HAVE WORKED IN AGRICULTURE.
01:49:31AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT OUR
01:49:33STANDARDS -- OUR ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS ARE WORLD CLASS.
01:49:36BUT WE ARE OFTEN BLAMED, YOU
01:49:38KNOW, COWS FARTING AND WE NEED
01:49:48TO HAVE OUR VOICES ACTUALLY HEARD AND COUNTED JUST AS MUCH
01:49:51AS ANY OTHER CANADIANS. >> Rosemary: SURE.
01:49:54>> AND THE FACT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NOW, YOU KNOW,
01:49:58GREEN LIT ANOTHER PIPELINE, YOU KNOW, I NOTICED THIS WEEK A
01:50:01COUPLE OF JUDGES WERE NAMED IN
01:50:03CONJUNCTION WITH THE ALBERTA GOVERNMENT.
01:50:05DOES THAT KIND OF STUFF CHANGE
01:50:08YOUR PERSPECTIVE THAT THERE IS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT'S LISTENING A LITTLE BIT TO SOME
01:50:12OF THOSE CONCERNS? >> WELL, THOSE ARE REALLY NICE
01:50:16ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT HAVE COME
01:50:17WITHIN TWO WEEKS OF A REFERENDUM
01:50:20ON MOVING FORWARD WITH INDEPENDENCE.
01:50:22SO I HONESTLY I HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME TAKING THEM
01:50:26SERIOUSLY. THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS COULD HAVE BEEN MADE MONTHS AGO BUT THEY WERE SAFE FOR NOW.
01:50:30THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THE POLITICAL GAMES THAT GET
01:50:34PLAYED ON THE CANADIAN PEOPLE. ALBERTANS ARE NOT THAT STUPID.
01:50:36WE SEE THROUGH IT. >> Rosemary: DO YOU SINCERELY
01:50:40WANT A REFERENDUM ON INDEPENDENCE AND INDEPENDENCE?
01:50:43OR IS THIS A LEVERAGE MECHANISM, AS IT IS FOR SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE
01:50:47VOTING THIS WAY? >> I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE
01:50:50ALBERTA INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS. AND I'VE TAKEN SIX YEARS TO
01:50:54STUDY THIS OUT.
01:50:55AND I AM TO THE POINT WHERE I
01:50:58DON'T BELIEVE THAT AS ALBERTANS WE HAVE ANY OTHER OPTION. WE HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL OTHER
01:51:02OPTIONS IN TRYING TO GET FAIR
01:51:04AND EQUAL REPRESENTATION WITHIN CANADA.
01:51:06THE REFORM PARTY IS ONE EXAMPLE THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER.
01:51:10WE SENT THEM TO OTTAWA AS THE OFFICIAL OPPOSITION.
01:51:14AND EVEN THEY COULD NOT ACHIEVE
01:51:17WHAT WE WERE WANTING WHEN IT
01:51:19COMES TO THE SENATE BEING EQUAL
01:51:22ELECTED AND EFFECTIVE. >> Rosemary: WHAT WOULD AN INDEPENDENT ALBERTA LOOK LIKE
01:51:26FOR YOU, ANGELA?
01:51:28>> WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
01:51:32ONE, OUR POLITICIANS, THOSE WHO
01:51:35ARE MAKE THE RULES AND ENFORCING THEM WOULD BE A LOT CLOSER.
01:51:38YOU KNOW WHAT, MY COUNTY COUNCILLOR LIVES DOWN THE ROAD
01:51:42FROM ME. IF THEY DO SOMETHING I DON'T
01:51:45AGREE WITH, I CAN HAVE A
01:51:49CONVERSATION. MARK CARNEY DOESN'T CARE THAT WE EXIST.
01:51:51AND SO WE NEED -- IT'S JUST A
01:51:53PRINCIPLE OF GOOD GOVERNANCE IS THAT POLITICIANS THAT ARE CLOSE
01:51:57TO THE PEOPLE, GIVING AMONG THE
01:52:01-- LIVING AMONGST THE PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE ACCOUNTABLE.
01:52:04AT THIS POINT AS ALBERTANS, WE
01:52:12>> Announc