Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:02where it ends. Were you really willing to risk that job?
00:00:05Yes at Thunder based favorite festival Wake the Giant,
00:00:22On this edition of the Fifth Estate...
00:00:24...we're in Edmonton, just days ahead of a crucial
00:00:27provincial referendum that risks reshaping the country;
00:00:30asking Albertans whether they want to remain
00:00:34a province of Canada.
00:00:37The only way to amend the Canadian Constitution
00:00:41is for a Canadian province
00:00:43to vote itself the hell out of Canada.
00:00:47[audience cheers]
00:00:49Let's not throw in the towel and give up on our country
00:00:52just as the battle has turned in our favour
00:00:54and victory is in sight.
00:00:57And while Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says
00:01:00she'll vote to remain in Canada,
00:01:02we're investigating how the party she leads
00:01:04has been sowing the seeds of separation for years.
00:01:08[horns honking]
00:01:09Do you believe that Premier Danielle Smith is a separatist?
00:01:13-100%. -Which is she, Rod?
00:01:16I think she's waiting to find out. [laughs]
00:01:20And what role has the Trump administration played
00:01:23in legitimizing Alberta's independence movement?
00:01:26I would love to see Canada be the 51st state.
00:01:29There's never been a worse time to call this referendum.
00:01:32Canada's vulnerable. I mean, what the hell is going on?
00:01:35I'm Mark Kelley. This is the Fifth Estate.
00:01:39[theme music playing]
00:01:42♪
00:01:47♪
00:01:50[light country music]
00:01:53I grew up in Quebec.
00:01:55I watched the 1980 referendum as a student,
00:01:58and covered the 1995 referendum as a CBC reporter.
00:02:02This I've learned:
00:02:04a referendum divides people in ways elections don't.
00:02:07And that's what's happening now in Alberta.
00:02:10So I'm here to find out who asked for this referendum,
00:02:13when polls consistently show
00:02:15about 3/4 of Albertans want to stay part of Canada.
00:02:21First stop: Foothills, Albert.
00:02:23♪
00:02:28I'm here to meet Jeff Rath.
00:02:31With his cowboy hat and his outsized swagger,
00:02:34Rath has become one of the key figures in the push for Alberta's independence.
00:02:38My brother lives in Ottawa. I mean, it's like,
00:02:40I have nothing against any of my fellow Canadians, period.
00:02:43We in Alberta are just fed up with the system. We want to change it.
00:02:47We want to be able to control our own destinies.
00:02:49And we don't want a bunch of voters in Quebec
00:02:51and the Maritimes determining our future anymore.
00:02:53♪
00:03:01a constitutional lawyer, a political pugilist.
00:03:04But whatever you do, don't call him a separatist.
00:03:08We don't look at ourselves as separatists. We, you know, we're advocates
00:03:11for a free and independent Alberta.
00:03:13But how can you not see yourself as a separatist
00:03:16if you don't see that Alberta would be separating from Canada?
00:03:18Well, we don't see it that way, though. You know, people can call it separatist, but I mean, it's,
00:03:22you know, it's that negative connotation,
00:03:24you know, Quebec separatists, Alberta separatists.
00:03:27It's like, no, we're just regular folk
00:03:29that want a free and independent country.
00:03:32[Mark] Regular folks have been talking about their grievances, it seems,
00:03:35ever since Alberta joined Confederation back in 1905.
00:03:40Some people try to say that we are separatists.
00:03:45Ladies and gentlemen, as far as I am concerned,
00:03:48is it separation to try to free yourselves
00:03:52efrom the tentacles of an octopus?
00:03:56[Mark] But it's the two Trudeaus:
00:03:57Pierre Elliott, whose energy and agricultural programs
00:04:01made him a political pariah in the West...
00:04:16[Mark,] And son Justin with his carbon tax and COVID mandates
00:04:20that helped reignite a largely dormant movement.
00:04:23Canadians know that the way to get through this pandemic
00:04:28is for everyone to get vaccinated.
00:04:31So unless people have a medical exception,
00:04:34they will not be able to board a plane
00:04:38or a train in Canada if they are unvaccinated.
00:04:42Justin Trudeau says, I'm no longer allowed to fly
00:04:44because I didn't get vaccinated. I'm now a prisoner of Alberta.
00:04:48So I turned to a friend one day and I said,
00:04:50"okay, I guess if Trudeau won't let me leave Alberta,
00:04:53I'm going to pick up my entire province and go.
00:05:05a bull in the China shop of Confederation.
00:05:08We are basically, you know,
00:05:10led around by the nose by whatever leader happens
00:05:12to rise to the top as if we lived in North Korea.
00:05:16And I, for one, am sick and tired of being governed that way.
00:05:22The pandemic is over and Trudeau is gone.
00:05:24Well, Carney's worse than Trudeau, I mean, is my answer.
00:05:27And I mean that was my impetus to start this, right?
00:05:31But it wasn't just that.
00:05:32The math, the economics, and the benefits of it
00:05:36are completely overwhelming.
00:05:37We, you know, literally see Mark Carney as the thin edge
00:05:40of communist China taking over Canada.
00:05:44-That's what you believe? -100%.
00:05:46The only way to amend the Canadian Constitution
00:05:50is for a Canadian province
00:05:52to vote itself the hell out of Canada.
00:05:57[cheers and applause] [Mark] Rath is one of three key figures
00:06:00in the modern independence movement,
00:06:02and they aren't your typical freedom fighters.
00:06:05Dennis Modry, a specialist in heart and lung transplants.
00:06:09His medical career ended after a dispute
00:06:11with Alberta Health Services over patient safety issues.
00:06:15He later re-emerged as a vocal critic
00:06:18of Alberta's vaccine mandates.
00:06:20For years, he's been going from town hall to town hall,
00:06:23advocating for independence to boost Alberta's prosperity.
00:06:28How many people here would like freedom
00:06:29from being over-governed, over-regulated, and over-taxed?
00:06:34How about freedom from wokeness,
00:06:37cancel culture, critical race theory?
00:06:39We have a path. And the path forward is a free and independent Alberta.
00:06:43Every Albertan desires
00:06:46that the great drain on Alberta...
00:06:48[Mark] And Mitch Sylvestre, a sporting goods retailer
00:06:51who became politically active after vaccine mandates
00:06:54forced his business to close during the pandemic.
00:06:58His bare-knuckle town hall speeches
00:07:01are laced with conspiracies and allegations
00:07:03of widespread political corruption in Canada.
00:07:07Mr. Trudeau spent eleven-thousand-million dollars
00:07:11on overseas gender programs.
00:07:14Eleven-thousand-million dollars.
00:07:16♪
00:07:20[Mark] Together Modry, Rath and Sylvestre
00:07:23created the Alberta Prosperity Project
00:07:25using PR campaigns to build support for Alberta's sovereignty,
00:07:29with the end goal: a referendum on independence.
00:07:32But none of these leaders had ever held political office,
00:07:35so they weren't in the position to lead Alberta
00:07:38out of Confederation on their own.
00:07:40But what they did have was the path to get there.
00:07:43And they had the people to help make it happen.
00:07:47[horns honking]
00:07:50Freedom! Whoo!
00:07:52F--- Trudeau! You guys start telling the truth.
00:07:56You guys have helped destroy this country, get the f--- out of here.
00:08:00I hope every border in Canada is blocked,
00:08:02I hope the country shuts down. [loud honking]
00:08:05[Mark] It was winter 2022,
00:08:07and between the border blockae in Coutts, Alberta
00:08:10and the trucker convoy in Ottawa, there was a group of activists
00:08:13furious with the federal government.
00:08:15They were motivated, and mobilized.
00:08:18After the pandemic they were searching for a cause,
00:08:21and they found it.
00:08:24What the movement needed was a political champion,
00:08:27someone who was listening to their grievances
00:08:29and not treating them as some fringe movement.
00:08:32What this is a recipe for is Alberta continuing
00:08:36to be the sole payer into the system,
00:08:40and continuing to shoulder an increasing burden.
00:08:42[Mark] And she was waiting in the wings.
00:08:45Danielle Smith was a host on 770 CHQR radio in Calgary.
00:08:49A former leader of the Wildrose party
00:08:52who controversially crossed the floor to join
00:08:54the Alberta Progressive Conservatives in 2014.
00:08:57In 2015, she lost the nominatn in her own riding.
00:09:00But years later, she would be poised for a comeback,
00:09:04thanks in part to support from the separatists.
00:09:07Coming up, the first steps,
00:09:09and the first roadblock on the path to independence.
00:09:13There was a cohort of the population
00:09:17who were living an alternative reality in COVID
00:09:20and they just got active,
00:09:21and I was behind the ball on that.
00:09:28What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:09:31province? The upcoming referendum will
00:09:34reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:09:38in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:09:41immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:09:45learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:09:48and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:09:52coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:09:55an informed choice.
00:11:58[theme music playing]
00:12:00[light country music]
00:12:06[Mark] This farm in the small town of Blackie
00:12:08is almost as old as Alberta itself.
00:12:10And over the years, western grievances
00:12:13and frustration with Ottawa politics have taken root here.
00:12:19Tanya Clemens is a farmer, a proud Albertan,
00:12:22frustrated by federalism.
00:12:25I have the maple leaf tattooed on my shoulder.
00:12:28I've grown up loving and idealizing Canada,
00:12:32even though I've come to learn that the Canada I believed in once
00:12:35doesn't necessarily exist in the same capacity.
00:12:39[Mark] Clemens now sees herself as a libertarian
00:12:42who wants to liberate Alberta from Confederation.
00:12:45To me, it means a little bit more of the government
00:12:48not having so much power over your daily life;
00:12:51that we have a little bit more sovereignty and self-determination.
00:12:54And that's what I advocate for, for Alberta right now,
00:12:57that we're not subjected to the rules of Ottawa
00:13:01and their policies that are made thousands of kilometres away.
00:13:05[Mark] It was 2021, when Clemens attended a rally
00:13:08with the main attraction, Dennis Modry,
00:13:11talking about his plan to set Alberta free.
00:13:14When Jason Kenney and the UCP were elected,
00:13:17they had 120,000 members.
00:13:20What we want to do with the Alberta Unity Project
00:13:23is we want to grow that membership to four or five
00:13:26or six or seven hundred thousand people.
00:13:29Why? Because that large group of people will influence
00:13:34the outcome of the next election.
00:13:37[Mark] Clemens was a member of the United Conservative Party,
00:13:40hungry for change she felt only a referendum
00:13:43on independence could deliver.
00:13:45Dr. Dennis Modry outlined the path for Alberta
00:13:48to achieve sovereignty within or without Canada
00:13:51and to me that was a path that all Albertans could get behind.
00:13:56But how would the independence leaders put Alberta
00:13:58on that path to a referendum?
00:14:01Our investigation has identified four key steps.
00:14:05Step one: take over the governing UCP
00:14:09and make change from the inside out.
00:14:12♪
00:14:17But a major obstacle on that road to a referendum
00:14:36and unabashed federalist,
00:14:38he saw the separatists as a political nuisance,
00:14:40not a political threat.
00:14:42If your primary issue is vaccines,
00:14:47or chemtrails, or immigration diversity,
00:14:51or separation from Ottawa, or whatever,
00:14:55it neatly kind of ties together
00:14:57into an attitude of the rejection
00:15:00of these distant and personal globalist elites.
00:15:04And Alberta separatism is a way
00:15:07to liberate ourselves from all of that.
00:15:10When he co-founded the United Conservative Party
00:15:12back in 2017 he wanted loyalty to Canada
00:15:16as a founding principle for his federalist party,
00:15:19as a signal to separatists.
00:15:21To send a message to them that this is not your party.
00:15:24You want to play in politics? Good for you. It's a democracy.
00:15:27You get to do that in your separatist parties. This is not one of them.
00:15:31However, the UCP never agreed to adopt the pledge
00:15:34that the party was loyal to Canada. Kenney didn't realize then
00:15:38that the party he co-founded was starting to change.
00:15:41[loud honking]
00:15:43And so was Alberta, gripped by protests over vaccine mandate,
00:15:47and then-Premier Kenney caught in the crosshairs.
00:15:51[overlapping chatter]
00:15:54The options are, Kenney is replaced or he's not replaced?
00:15:58Whether he's replaced or not,
00:16:00could that party move with a new leader or with Jason
00:16:04to an independence-focused future?
00:16:09[Mark] Dennis Modry, Jeff Rath and Mitch Sylvestre
00:16:11were members of the UCP.
00:16:13And on the path to a referendum,
00:16:16step two: take down Kenney.
00:16:19I'd seen these things many times and they would usually flare up and burn out.
00:16:23So it didn't strike me as really a serious
00:16:27separatist movement at the time.
00:16:29It struck me as the usual perennially aggrieved people,
00:16:33blowing smoke. But here's the important point.
00:16:36These people who had maybe been on the fringe before,
00:16:41they're now in the party that you helped create.
00:16:43Yeah. They're in the tent, yeah, at that point.
00:16:45In 2022, facing a caucus revot
00:16:49over his COVID restrictions, Kenney faced a leadership review.
00:16:52His fate now in the hands of people newly recruited
00:16:56to join the UCP by the independence leaders.
00:16:59I will admit, I and my team
00:17:03were late to notice what was going on.
00:17:05We were perhaps a bit asleep at the switch.
00:17:08Kenney's address to UCP staff,
00:17:10weeks before his leadership review,
00:17:12was leaked and obtained by Radio-Canada.
00:17:34[Mark] In May 2022, in a staggering rebuke of his leadership,
00:17:37Kenney received only 51% support of the UCP members.
00:17:42He resigned right after the vote.
00:17:45Two-thirds of the people voting in that review vote,
00:17:49as well as, I understand, two-thirds voting
00:17:51in the subsequent fall leadership election
00:17:54that chose my successor,
00:17:56two-thirds of the voters in both cases were brand-new.
00:18:00They were brand-new.
00:18:01-Were they separatists? -Well, clearly.
00:18:04They came in on COVID anger, anti-vax sentiment.
00:18:08A lot of them were separatists.
00:18:09And then separatism became, when COVID passed, their sequel.
00:18:14Separatism is the sequel to the convoy movement.
00:18:17♪
00:18:23To find out more about these post-COVID,
00:18:26post-convoy converts to the independence cause,
00:18:29I travelled to tiny Mirror, Alberta,
00:18:32and pulled up for a cup of coffee
00:18:34at the Whistle Stop Cafe.
00:18:36Back in 2021, owner Chris Scott
00:18:38put his diner on the political map
00:18:41after he defied the province's COVID mandates.
00:18:44AHS and the RCMP are currently at the Whistle Stop.
00:18:48This is disgusting!
00:18:53How can any single one of you sleep at night
00:18:55with what you're doing right now!
00:18:58[Mark] He was arrested by the RCMP,
00:19:00spent three days in jail,
00:19:14Yeah, I'm willing to do that any time. And another convert
00:19:17to Alberta's independence movement was born.
00:19:20And what did you learn about yourself?
00:19:23Apparently I don't like bullies.
00:19:26Who's the bully in this scenario?
00:19:28Well, the government, the Canadian government,
00:19:30the provincial governments, municipal governments,
00:19:32they bullied Canadians in a way that I've never seen,
00:19:35never expected, never dreamed could happen in Canada.
00:19:38And there was a lot of people that were hurt from that.
00:19:40And I always kind of cheer for the underdog.
00:19:43I'm willing to be stubborn
00:19:45and stand up for what I believe in, and that's...
00:19:48I really discovered that about myself throughout this whole thing.
00:19:52In this independence movement,
00:19:54do you see yourself and your fellow believers
00:19:57as the underdog in this story? Of course. Of course, right.
00:20:01It's not a mainstream thing, right?
00:20:03The independence movement is basically saying the status quo no longer works.
00:20:07We reject the idea of the status quo
00:20:10and we want to do something different.
00:20:14To mobilize more people to reject the status quo,
00:20:18Scott puts in a full shift at the Whistle Stop;
00:20:20then, when his workday is don,
00:20:23he climbs into his truck and heads out
00:20:25to town hall meetings he calls Let's Talk Alberta.
00:20:29He says he'll have organized almost 150 meetings
00:20:32by referendum day.
00:20:34♪
00:20:39We followed Scott to the town of Trochu,
00:20:42a farming community of some 1,200 residents,
00:20:44where the talk of Alberta's independence gets a warm welcome.
00:20:48[applause]
00:20:51Actually, it's the Laurentians, the ones tearing down John A. Macdonald's statue,
00:20:55the ones who were saying we're genocidal jerks, the ones that were saying we should stare at our shoes
00:20:59for being part of this country
00:21:00because we're such shameful colonial monsters,
00:21:05that we don't deserve it.
00:21:06Paternalism is creating separatists every day.
00:21:09Every time they lecture us, our support grows.
00:21:12Every time the Eastern media mocks us, support grows.
00:21:17I'd like to introduce you tonight, ladies and gentlemen,
00:21:20to the owner of the Whistle Stop Cafe, Mr. Chris Scott.
00:21:25[Mark] Scott then takes the floor to hammer home the poin,
00:21:28it's time to put Alberta firs.
00:21:30Western alienation, the biggest part of it
00:21:33was that we haven't been listened to. We feel we haven't been listened to.
00:21:36We feel that our values do not,
00:21:38are not effectively conveyed in Parliament,
00:21:41and then manifest in legislation that benefits the West.
00:21:45They just didn't listen.
00:21:49We can't do that anymore.
00:21:53Are Scott and other speakers preaching to the converted?
00:21:56Likely, but it's another meetg in another Alberta town
00:22:00where it seems people have given up on Canada.
00:22:04Dennis Modry, Jeff Rath and Mitch Sylvestre
00:22:06and the UCP membership
00:22:08took the next step in their path to independence.
00:22:11Step three: elect a new leader to deliver a referendum.
00:22:16There were seven candidates in the leadership race,
00:22:19six of them with ties to Jason Kenney's UCP government.
00:22:23The lone exception?
00:22:25When he said that this country is just fundamentally
00:22:28unsustainable, and Alberta in particular...
00:22:31[Mark] CHQR radio show host Danielle Smith.
00:22:35With Kenney's leadership under attack,
00:22:37Smith quit her radio job. We'll start off with Danielle Smith on that one.
00:22:40[Mark] She says she contacted none other than Dennis Modry
00:22:44before throwing her hat into the ring.
00:23:15Keep in mind, this is a room of a thousand
00:23:17pro-independence people in the Convention Centre in Edmonton.
00:23:20You know, you say that you're going to be talking to Ottawa and you're gonna be telling them,
00:23:24you know, we need to fix things or else, right?
00:23:27What's your or else?
00:23:29Well, she says my or else is Dennis Modry
00:23:32and the Alberta Prosperity Project, you know, sort of intimating that she--
00:23:35and she got a big round of applause--
00:23:37intimating that she's gonna take Alberta out of Canada.
00:23:40The leaders of, and potential leaders of the UCP
00:23:45and other independence parties are courting us
00:23:49because they know what we're doing,
00:23:51which has never, ever been done before,
00:23:54has the potential to win,
00:23:58and they want our support.
00:24:04[Mark] But Smith needed votes to win the crowded leadership ra.
00:24:08So her team went out looking for someone
00:24:10who could be a bridge to independence-minded voters.
00:24:13And that's how they found Jenny Walker in Grande Prairi.
00:24:17I was pulled back in by Danielle Smith's team.
00:24:21Walker is a seasoned political organizer
00:24:24who has worked for separatist parties.
00:24:26She says she agreed to campaign for Smith
00:24:29because she didn't treat separatist supporters
00:24:31as political outsiders.
00:24:34She was addressing some core issues,
00:24:36you know, privacy, freedom of speech,
00:24:40anything deemed as a conspiracy theory.
00:24:43But they're legitimate questions. Even if they are a conspiracy theory,
00:24:46it's a legitimate question for somebody to ask.
00:24:48[Mark] Once on Smith's leadership campaign,
00:24:50it was clear to her the separatist movement
00:24:53was now deeply embedded in the supposedly federalist UCP.
00:24:57It's weird because Jason Kenney has always said
00:25:00that the separatists couldn't organize themselves out of a wet paper bag.
00:25:03So I have to give them credit.
00:25:08[Mark] It took six ballots before a new leader was elect.
00:25:11I'm back!
00:25:15[Mark] With just under 54% of the vote,
00:25:18barely more than Jason Kenney's support,
00:25:20it wasn't a resounding victor.
00:25:22But for Danielle Smith, it was just enough.
00:25:25Tonight marks the beginning of a new chapter
00:25:28in the Alberta story.
00:25:30It is time for Alberta to take its place
00:25:33as a senior partner in building a strong and unified Canada.
00:25:37[cheers and applause]
00:25:39[Mark] Coming up, Smith's commitment to build
00:25:42a unified Canada puts her on a collision course
00:25:44with separatist supporters
00:25:46who voted her into the Premier's office.
00:25:49Thank you and may God keep our land glorious and free.
00:25:54[cheers and applause]
00:26:02What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:26:04province? The upcoming referendum will
00:26:07reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:26:11in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:26:14immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:26:18learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:26:21and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:26:25coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:26:28an informed choice.
00:28:33[horns honking]
00:28:36[crowd din]
00:28:39[Mark] It was May 2026, and independence leader
00:28:43Mitch Sylvestre was beaming like the proud parent
00:28:46of a newborn baby when he delivered a petition
00:28:49and a message to Premier Danielle Smith.
00:28:51Dear Premier Smith,
00:28:53on behalf of the Stay Free Alberta campaign,
00:28:56I'm pleased to advise you today that we delivered
00:28:58to Elections Alberta 301,450 signatures.
00:29:03[cheers and applause]
00:29:06[Mark] The independence side said 7,000 volunteers
00:29:09spent almost four months during a bitterly cold
00:29:12Alberta winter collecting signatures on their petition,
00:29:16leading to the next step on the path.
00:29:19Step four: secure a referendu.
00:29:23Their question: "Do you agree that the province of Alberta
00:29:27should cease to be a part of Canada
00:29:29to become an independent state?"
00:29:32We look forward to your government receiving this clear expression
00:29:35of the democratic will of Albertans,
00:29:37and advancing the next steps to include this important
00:29:39question on the referendum ballot on October 19th, 2026.
00:29:46[Mark] Their confidence grew after Premier Smith had lowered the bar
00:29:50for the number of signatures legally required
00:29:52to trigger a referendum question.
00:29:55And that was a critical move,
00:29:57because of the 301,000 signatures collected,
00:30:00only 222,600 were verified.
00:30:04That's just 7.5% of the Alberta electorate.
00:30:09This is the first step to the next step. [laughter]
00:30:11And away we go, thank you very much. God bless all of you.
00:30:19[Mark] Far from the mounting political tension
00:30:21is Sturgeon Lake Cree Nation.
00:30:25And long before there was talk of a referendum,
00:30:28long before there was a province called Alberta,
00:30:55his responsibility, to protect this land as it was protected
00:30:58by generations of chiefs who came before him.
00:31:02That's part of who we are here in Sturgeon.
00:31:06We're good people.
00:31:07But one of the terms that I like to use
00:31:10is that we're nice until we're not.
00:31:13It gets us-- You've got to push us through
00:31:17a certain point for us not to be nice,
00:31:20and we're getting pushed to that point.
00:31:23[Mark] Chief Sunshine and other First Nations chiefs
00:31:26opposed the idea of a referenm on independence.
00:31:29They argue it violates their treaty rights
00:31:32because they were never consulted on the plan.
00:31:34The chief says he considers independence
00:31:37a way for the Alberta governmt to grab First Nations land
00:31:40for resource development.
00:31:42They want to fast track these resource developments.
00:31:44And all of these legislations are avenues to go around
00:31:49First Nations, our rights to the land, our way of life.
00:31:53You know, when we signed the treaty,
00:31:55it was with the understanding that our people could live...
00:32:01forever, practicing our way of life.
00:32:03[Mark] So the First Nations leaders went to court
00:32:06to block the independence referendum, and won.
00:32:09-The treaties live! -The treaties live!
00:32:12-The nations live! -The nations live!
00:32:16[Mark] Orlagh O'Kelly is a lawyer for the Sturgeon Lake Cree.
00:32:19She said the court decision gave Premier Smith an opportunity
00:32:22to call off or delay the referendum on independenc.
00:32:26She could have taken that off-ramp. I think that was the final,
00:32:30maybe the final verdict at that point
00:32:33was here's an off-ramp.
00:32:35And I believe Chief Sunshine openly invited her
00:32:38to take that off-ramp, and she didn't take it.
00:32:42Just to shelve this whole referendum question idea. You have an out.
00:32:46You can go back to your base and say, sorry,
00:32:47the court said no, and I'm going to respect that.
00:32:52[Mark] But instead of taking the off-ramp,
00:32:55in May, Smith announced a referendum
00:32:57on independence would indeed be held,
00:32:59with a new question, one the courts would accept.
00:33:19[Mark] If voters choose the second option,
00:33:21another referendum will be held,
00:33:24after consulting Alberta's First Nations.
00:33:28Now, I want to be clear.
00:33:29I support Alberta remaining in Canada.
00:33:32That is how I would vote on separation in a provincial referendum.
00:33:36It is also the position of my government and my caucus.
00:33:39[Mark] Perhaps, but it wasn't the position of her party membership.
00:33:43In May, an Angus Reid poll revealed 64% of the UCP membes
00:33:47would vote to hold a binding referendum to leave Canada.
00:33:52Members like Mitch Sylvestre,
00:33:54now a UCP constituency president
00:33:56and major party fundraiser, and Dennis Modry,
00:33:59seen here with the premier at a UCP dinner.
00:34:02As well as independence firebrand Jeff Rath,
00:34:06who confronted Smith and her cabinet
00:34:08at the UCP annual general meeting last fall,
00:34:11to send the premier a message.
00:34:13[Jeff] My question for the room is how many of all of us
00:34:17favour a free and independent Alberta?
00:34:29That is my position.
00:34:31[Mark] Smith's response was met by a chorus of boos
00:34:34and only a smattering of applause.
00:34:36So, if she favoured a united Canada,
00:34:39along with the majority of Albertans according to pol,
00:34:42why hold the referendum? When Danielle Smith ran,
00:34:46when she was actually elected in 2023... -Yeah. -she didn't run on any of this.
00:34:50Jason Kenney got taken out by that arm of the party
00:34:53and she knows that, right?
00:34:56She's managed to appease them, I think.
00:34:58So she saved herself, it worked. [Mark] But if it was all a game
00:35:02of political survival for Smith, lawyer O'Kelly wonders at what cost
00:35:06for Albertans, and Canadians.
00:35:09There's never been a worse time to call this referendum.
00:35:12Like, Canada's vulnerable
00:35:14with Donald Trump in office.
00:35:17What I'm worried about is, you know, influence from the United States,
00:35:20but there's other foreign actors
00:35:21who would gladly see Canada dismembered.
00:35:24But do you see this as a dangerous game?
00:35:26Yes, very dangerous.
00:35:30Also, they've been very nasty to us on trade.
00:35:32I would love to see Canada be the 51st state.
00:35:37[Mark] Remember, in late 2025,
00:35:39U.S. President Trump was trolling Canada
00:35:41while inflicting damaging trade tariffs.
00:35:45Canada was in full on elbows up mode.
00:35:59[Mark] So what did the three leaders of Alberta's independence movement do?
00:36:03Well, there's a group of Albertans that are working together right now to put together a delegation
00:36:06to go to Washington to talk to the Trump administration
00:36:09about Alberta petitioning for U.S. statehood.
00:36:12So how important is support from the U.S. administration
00:36:15to the success of your Alberta independence movement?
00:36:18I think it's absolutely crucial, right?
00:36:20Because, you know, a big part of what we're saying is
00:36:22that we are going to be far better off outside of Canada.
00:36:25A big driver of this movement is all the anti-Americanism
00:36:29that we're seeing out of Ontario and, you know, all the elbows up nonsense.
00:36:33Can you imagine anything more childish? Like, elbows up, we're going to beat the Americans
00:36:37by pretending we're Gordie Howe and elbow them in the mouth. I mean, it's silly, right?
00:36:41Culturally, we're far more closer
00:36:43to our friends and relatives in Montana
00:36:54and Dennis Modry, met at the U.S. State Departmt
00:36:56on three separate occasions.
00:36:59Neither side will say who represented the U.S. at the meetings.
00:37:03We're not at liberty to say, unfortunately.
00:37:05That's the one, we can talk about some of the things that we discussed in those meetings.
00:37:08We have an agreement with them we won't disclose their identity. But it seems like you're having your cake
00:37:12-and eating it too. -Yeah, well... You talk a lot about the meetings and that they were
00:37:15high level and yet you won't be saying who it was.
00:37:18I know, Mark, it just is what it is.
00:37:21I mean, I've gone around the mulberry bush on this
00:37:25with a number of journalists. I mean, we agreed to that,
00:37:28and unlike a lot of the politicians on the other side of this, we keep our word.
00:37:31So, but, you know, that being said, people that were in our meetings were going, you know,
00:37:35directly from our meetings to the Oval Office.
00:37:37What the hell is going on? These people are not elected dog catcher.
00:37:41They don't represent anyone. [Mark] Former Premier Jason Kenney
00:37:45says he would have stopped the meetings in their tracks
00:37:48had he still been in office.
00:37:50But to have some, you know, random guy
00:37:53in a cowboy hat just call up the State Department and say,
00:37:58"hey, I'm going to come down and effectively represent
00:38:02your largest external supplier of energy and your--
00:38:05"by the way, to talk about seceding
00:38:07from your closest trading partner and strategic ally."
00:38:10Give me a break.
00:38:12"Canada's the 51st state" was the top narrative
00:38:14that was being pushed out. [Mark] Marcus Kolga is a founder
00:38:18of a group called DisinfoWatc.
00:38:20He's been monitoring misinformation
00:38:23generated in the U.S. during our trade war.
00:38:25He says his findings suggest the intent
00:38:28is to destabilize Canada.
00:38:30And it tells us that the fastest rising narrative
00:38:32is this Canadian state failure
00:38:35and that the Alberta referendum,
00:38:38Alberta independence, is the solution
00:38:42to Albertans escaping this failed state in Canada.
00:38:48[Mark] The 51st state rhetoric is being pushed
00:38:51by the likes of podcaster
00:38:52and former Fox News host Trish Regan.
00:38:56Danielle has actually made it so that in October,
00:38:59they're going to have that secession vote.
00:39:02So why not become an honorary United States state?
00:39:07America would gain greater access to oil.
00:39:09Alberta gains access to our protection.
00:39:12But what do you want Albertans to know, Canadians to know,
00:39:14about this threat of disinformation
00:39:17and foreign interference? Is it very much alive as we speak?
00:39:21It's alive, and the key point
00:39:23that we want to achieve in all of this
00:39:26is to make Albertans aware that they are being targeted.
00:39:31[Mark] When we come back, the pressure mounts on the premier.
00:39:35Danielle is not on our side, she's never been on our side.
00:39:39And that's why you want to get rid of her? Absolutely.
00:39:42♪
00:39:47What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:39:49province? The upcoming referendum will
00:39:52reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:39:56in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:39:59immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:40:03learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:40:06and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:40:10coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:40:13an informed choice.
00:42:21[Mark] As summer turns to fall on the Alberta Prairie,
00:42:23we're now just a couple weeks away from referendum da.
00:42:27Premier Smith has spent months trying
00:42:30to hold her party and her province together.
00:42:34This tower is a symbol of support for an independent Alberta.
00:42:39It was put up in 2020, essentially,
00:42:41as a middle finger to then-prime minister
00:42:43Justin Trudeau and his energy policies.
00:42:48Rod Perron put the tower up.
00:42:50And he says he won't take it down
00:42:52until Alberta is finally free of Canada.
00:43:08demanding a referendum.
00:43:10He wishes this vote would be a binding question:
00:43:13remain or leave.
00:43:17But he sees this referendum as getting
00:43:19one step closer to independence.
00:43:21And he thanks Premier Danielle Smith for that.
00:43:24She's good. One of the things that
00:43:26I really smile about with her is,
00:43:28so you've got the separatists
00:43:31that are saying, oh, she's a federalist.
00:43:33And you've got the federalists saying, oh, she's a separatist.
00:43:35-'Cause you just... -So which is she, Rod?
00:43:40I think she's waiting to find out. [laughs]
00:43:43She's a representative of her people.
00:43:46My personal opinion is that I think
00:43:49she would lead an independent Alberta.
00:43:52[Mark] But he feels his next door neighbours, the Sturgeon Lake Cree,
00:43:55are standing in the way of his dream of an independent Alberta.
00:43:58There's a few chiefs.
00:44:01You know, a few elders who got some people really worked up,
00:44:05but it's, you know, for me, I got to really ask why.
00:44:08Why would you even want to stay?
00:44:11You know, they've been getting beat up
00:44:14worse than Alberta for the last 123 years
00:44:17and, you know, why would they want to stay?
00:44:20Every time you see an Alberta flag, you just assume they're separatists.
00:44:26-That's what you see? -That's what I see.
00:44:33Their communities are side by side.
00:44:35And this political divide is creating bad blood.
00:44:39With the whole start of the separatist talk,
00:44:42we've seen a lot of...
00:44:46[sighs]
00:44:48a lot of racism come out.
00:44:50You know, it was always there,
00:44:52but I think with the separatists,
00:44:56that really emboldened a lot of people
00:44:58that come out with their opinions and their views.
00:45:01What are those opinions and views? Well, you know,
00:45:05some of them feel that we are holding up
00:45:09[laughs] the separatist issue.
00:45:12But at the end of the day,
00:45:14we're just protecting our rights of our people.
00:45:17[Mark] But unlike his neighbour Perron,
00:45:19he is convinced of Premier Smith's political endgame.
00:45:22Do you believe that Premier Danielle Smith is a separatist?
00:45:27100%.
00:45:29I don't think there's anything
00:45:31that could prove otherwise to me.
00:45:35You know, she was right up in the camp, changing the laws,
00:45:39you know, and now she's on the other hand,
00:45:43trying to save Canada, be Captain Canada.
00:45:45But, you know, like I said, the actions speak louder than words.
00:45:49And all of her actions indicate that she's a separatist.
00:45:57and Jeff Rath share: their distrust of the premier.
00:46:01Danielle is not on our side, she's never been on our side,
00:46:04and-- but she's the only reason she has power
00:46:07is that she fooled enough people into thinking she was.
00:46:12She's literally, you know, she's leader of the UCP
00:46:14by fraud, is what it amounts to.
00:46:16And that's why you want to get rid of her? Absolutely, well, that and, you know,
00:46:20strategically and tactically we see her as a, you know,
00:46:23as a complete impediment to independence.
00:46:26[Mark] So, separatist supporters like Rath
00:46:28are now taking one more step on their path
00:46:31to Alberta's independence. Step five: get rid of Smith.
00:46:36We just need to get rid of her sooner rather than later
00:46:38and, you know, proceed to have a special
00:46:41general meeting of the party to vote
00:46:44on her leadership the same way we did with Jason Kenney.
00:46:48I understand their frustrations for sure,
00:46:51because we were hoping that she would advocate more heavily
00:46:54on our side instead of taking a position against us.
00:46:59[Mark] Tanya Clemens, who once campaigned for Smith,
00:47:02now sits on the board of her local constituency associatio.
00:47:05In late September, she voted with her board
00:47:08to hold a review of the Premier's leadership.
00:47:26[Mark] Back at the Whistle Stop Cafe,
00:47:28owner Chris Scott harbours his own doubts about the premier.
00:47:32He says her support of Alberta remaining in Canada
00:47:35has set back the independence movement he supports.
00:47:39The idea of holding a referendum to see
00:47:43if you want to have a referendum, how does that strike you?
00:47:47Well, it's annoying. I understand why.
00:47:49I do get that she's trying to walk a political tightrope.
00:47:53She's trying to balance, you know, the support of her base,
00:47:57which is estimated 60 to 70% of the UCP
00:48:00is, they're on board with Alberta sovereignty.
00:48:03She's trying to balance that with the federalist faction in the UCP.
00:48:06She's trying to balance that with her commitments
00:48:09to the federal government to work on some projects.
00:48:12Do you see the party heading for a split?
00:48:15100%. 100%.
00:48:19It's not just UCP members who are unhappy with the premier.
00:48:22Her popularity rating
00:48:24is now at the lowest since her election in 2023.
00:48:27And the separatists smell blood.
00:48:31Even the premier seems to be showing the strain of the campaign.
00:48:35In an online conference at the end of September,
00:48:37Premier Smith became emotiona,
00:48:39saying Albertans are angry and they need to be heard.
00:48:42Some begin to ask the painful question:
00:48:50[clears throat]
00:48:52Does this country actually want us?
00:48:59Even if most Albertans choose to remain,
00:49:03and current polls suggest it's two-thirds who will vote that way,
00:49:07the number of people who feel this frustrated
00:49:09with their own country is too high for comfort.
00:49:15We requested an interview with Premier Smith
00:49:17to discuss her divided party, and her divided province.
00:49:21We were told she would not be made available
00:49:23to speak to the Fifth Estate.
00:49:27Two of the independence leades now have other issues to deal with.
00:49:34Aren't you a pretty boy? Look at you.
00:49:38Jeff Rath has had his assets frozen
00:49:40after two First Nations allege he misappropriated
00:49:44millions of dollars from trust funds his law firm oversaw.
00:49:49Rath calls the allegations false.
00:49:53And last year a B.C. judge found Dennis Modry
00:49:56misappropriated $1.3 million from his aunt and uncle.
00:50:01Since then, he's stepped back from public appearances.
00:50:04He didn't respond to our requests for an interview.
00:50:10So, how will Premier Smith unite Albertans
00:50:12after holding a referendum on independence
00:50:15only a fraction of voters ever asked for?
00:50:19A referendum
00:50:21many of the separatist supporters now condemn.
00:50:25This political exercise has exposed
00:50:27the soft underbelly of Canadian unity.
00:50:30And just like Quebec, the divisions in Alberta
00:50:34won't end when the ballots are counted.
00:50:38[theme music playing]
00:50:48[Steven] Next week on the Fifth Estate.
00:50:50I'm Steven D'Souza in Berlin,
00:50:52on the trail of anti-government movements in Canada and abroad.
00:50:57They're called sovereign citizens.
00:50:59They see taxes, western governments,
00:51:01and their institutions as illegitimate.
00:51:05[knocking] Hello, is anybody here? We go on the search for a man
00:51:07who duped the Canada Revenue Agency
00:51:10into giving him a massive refund. Well, how do you know that?
00:51:14We have some sources. I mean, $40 million is a lot of money.
00:51:16We look at how sovereigns
00:51:18are using conspiracy theories to try and steal
00:51:21hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money.
00:51:24They can keep hitting the Bank of Canada forever
00:51:26at this rate, nothing's been done to stop it.
00:51:28And in Germany we look at how extreme sovereigns
00:51:32try to overthrow the governme.
00:51:34Could that happen in Canada?
00:51:36The moment you believe the whole world is actually a facade,
00:51:40then it gets so hellishly dangerous.
00:51:43That's next week on the Fifth Estate.
00:51:48I'm Timothy Sawa, I'm an investigative journalist
00:51:51with the Fifth Estate.
00:51:52From 2021 to 2025, the northern B.C. town
00:51:56of Dawson Creek saw over a dozen homicides.
00:51:59I learned that over the last few years,
00:52:01Dawson became an unlikely home for a thriving drug trade.
00:52:05With it came violence and intimidation more typical
00:52:08of a narco-state than a quiet farming town.
00:52:10You can listen to my full investigation into the Mile Zero Murders
00:52:15right now, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:52:19♪
00:52:25♪
00:52:31♪
00:52:37♪
00:52:44♪
00:52:53What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:52:56province? The upcoming referendum will
00:52:58reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:53:02in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:53:05immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:53:09learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:53:12and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
00:53:16coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
00:53:19an informed choice.
00:55:26Hi there, Canada.
00:55:27Hi Siri,
00:55:30How are you holding up?
00:55:34It's been difficult to say the least.
00:55:38I intend to resign as party leader, as Prime Minister.
00:55:59is going to be cracking down. Minimum 10% tariff on all
00:56:02imports. Some contracts are already getting cancelled.
00:56:05Facing a potential 25 or even 50% tariff on steel exports.
00:56:09We're already hearing about layoffs. Feeling the financial
00:56:12pain of Canada's 25% counter tariffs. He believes that
00:56:15Canadians would benefit greatly from becoming the 51st state
00:57:01and what it means for all of us to say we are Canadian.
00:57:10Our journalists countrywide and all over the world are on the
00:57:14case.
00:57:16Do you think you're gonna have to close?
00:57:18I hate to think about that.
00:57:27I'm about 15 kilometers from the Russian border. Where are
00:57:31Canada's allies? Where are Canada's markets?
00:57:33What is this country's place on the planet?
00:57:51right beside you trying to make sense of it with you.
00:58:08Power and politics, the scale of the crisis and chaos and a day like this. We gotta get to the power panel
00:58:12early. Experts and party insiders break it all down.
00:58:15This is a shift in the Liberal position. And then the Tories
00:58:26that back because governing is a lot harder than campaigning.
00:58:29He's a drag on his own party, extremely difficult choices.
00:58:32The Power Panel on power and politics with David Cochrane, weekdays on CBC News.
00:58:48to use force. We don't just report the news. Which outlet
00:58:51are you with? The Canadian public broadcast.
00:58:53We connect the dots. Is it about stopping drugs?
00:58:55Donald Trump has never met a hydrocarbon. He didn't cover it.
00:58:58If the facts that matter, why is that your focus right
00:59:01now? From the source, you can trust the National Canada's newscast.
00:59:08Amy and Hannah Nancy, we're live in Vancouver.
00:59:11Breaking live, engaging for all the top
00:59:14stories. Don't miss Hannah Mansing Live.
00:59:26Your news, your weather, your morning. Good Morning
00:59:29Canada, CBC Morning Live with David Comedy.
00:59:38What kind of future do Albertans want for their
00:59:41province? The upcoming referendum will
00:59:43reveal where voters stand on the ballot is whether to stay
00:59:47in Canada to seek more provincial powers over
00:59:50immigration or whether to push for constitutional change. To
00:59:54learn what the choices mean for you, for Albertans,
00:59:58and for all Canadians, stay tuned to CBC News for full
01:00:01coverage. The Alberta referendum October 19th. Make
01:00:05an informed choice.
01:00:22(♪) >> TONIGHT, ANOTHER DEADLY
01:00:25STRIKE ON A SAUDI AIRPORT JUST ONE DAY AFTER AN ATTACK ON A
01:00:28MAJOR PASSENGER TERMINAL.
01:00:33>> THIS IS A CONFLICT THAT HAS
01:00:35DEEP ROOTS AND IT'S BEEN
01:00:38REIGNITED. >> THE TERRIFYING MOMENT AND THE
01:00:41ESCALATING VIOLENCE BETWEEN SAUDI ARABIA AND IRAN-BACKED HOUTHI REBELS AND THE THREAT
01:00:45THAT MORE COUNTRIES COULD BE DRAGGED INTO THE CONFLICT.
01:00:49>>> PLUS, HURRICANE SIMON SLAMS
01:00:52INTO MEXICO'S PACIFIC COAST.
01:00:55>> WE DON'T TYPICALLY SEE A LOT OF