Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01YOU HAVE A BABYSITTER AND YOU
00:00:04PAY THEM A CERTAIN AMOUNT PER
00:00:06YEAR YOU HAVE TO PAY EMPLOYMENT TAXES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.
00:00:10JUST LIKE NAVIGATING THAT WEBSITE IS INSANE.
00:00:13THE WEBSITE WAS IN CRATE -- WAS CREATED IN 1991.
00:00:17THEY CLAIM TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF
00:00:21PERMITTING REFORMS, BUT EVEN AT THE STATE LEVEL YOU SEE THOSE CHALLENGES. I THINK YOU WILL SEE BIPARTISAN
00:00:26SUPPORT THIS CONGRESS AND THE NEXT CONGRESS FOR MAKING REAL
00:00:28CHANGES THAT ALLOW PROJECTS, THE
00:00:30CERTAINTY THEY NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.
00:00:34REP. SESSIONS: I WOULD ADD TO
00:00:37THAT, YOU ASKED THE QUESTION, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO?
00:00:40I THINK WE HAVE TWO OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE, IN MY BOOK.
00:00:43AND I THINK MANY REPUBLICANS
00:00:47AGREE, THAT IS IN AGRICULTURE BILL. SINCE I WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE
00:00:50RULES COMMITTEE, I WENT OUT WEST
00:00:53FOR SIX YEARS AND WE DID THE AD BILL TWICE. WE GOT IT DONE.
00:00:56WE DO NOT HAVE AN ACT BILL. I DON'T THINK CONGRESS
00:01:00UNDERSTANDS IF IT CANNOT FIND A WAY TO GET IT DONE, THEN WE GO
00:01:04BACK TO THE LAST TIME WE HAD
00:01:07PROBATE LAW IN 1933 AND ITS
00:01:12SOVIET ERA TYPE POLITICS. IT CHANGES THE WHOLE INDUSTRY, WHICH MEANS WE CAN'T LET IT
00:01:16HAPPEN. WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET THE AGGRO DONE.
00:01:20AND THAT'S MOSTLY ON REPUBLICANS RIGHT NOW.
00:01:23WE'VE GOT TO COME TO THAT CONCLUSION RIGHT NOW.
00:01:27THE HAMP PART -- HEMP PART,
00:01:33WHICH THC IS THE FACTOR THAT'S
00:01:37IN THERE. THE SECOND THING, COLLEGE SPORTS.
00:01:43WE HAVE TO COME TO AN ANSWER.
00:01:46I THINK THAT EVERYONE ADMITS
00:01:48THAT IT IS HARMING ACADEMICS,
00:01:50IT'S HARMING UNIVERSITIES AND IT
00:01:52IS HARMING PEOPLE'S FUTURE WITH
00:01:56THE OPEN RULES THAT WE HAVE FOR THE ATHLETES.
00:01:59AND I THINK THAT SOMETHING THAT MUST PASS.
00:02:03WE'VE GOT TO GET BOTH THESE
00:02:06BILLS DONE BEFORE WE GO HOME.
00:02:11>> I'M GLAD YOU ARE BROUGHT UP
00:02:16AI BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING CONGRESS IS THINKING ABOUT TACKLING.
00:02:20CONGRESS TRADITIONALLY HAS BEEN RELATIVELY SLOW.
00:02:25AND IT CAN BE DIFFICULT, WHETHER
00:02:28OR NOT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY, REACHING MORE --
00:02:31MORATORIUM ON STATE REGULATIONS,
00:02:37YOU ALL KNOW MORE THAN ME ABOUT THE SUPER INTELLIGENCE.
00:02:41MAYBE WE CAN START, DO YOU USE
00:02:44AI IN YOUR DAY-TO-DAY LIFE AND HOW DO YOU ENGAGE WITH IT,
00:02:47ESPECIALLY GIVEN IF YOU CAN LEGISLATE ON IT?
00:02:50REP. MENEFEE: I FORCED MYSELF TO
00:02:54START USING CHATBOTS EVERYDAY TWO YEARS AGO.
00:02:57I REMEMBER VERY VIVIDLY THE CURVE FOR THE INTERNET WE WERE
00:02:59STARTING OFF ASKING JEEVES, AND
00:03:03THE ANSWERS WERE HORRIFIC EVERY TIME. NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YAHOO! AND
00:03:06THEN GOOGLE. BUT THE CURVE WAS LIKE THIS OVER
00:03:11TIME. US ALL VERY EARLY, AND IT WAS
00:03:13HARD TO TELL, BUT THE CURVE FOR
00:03:16AI IS LIKE THIS. THESE CHATBOTS ARE ABLE TO DO
00:03:18THINGS TODAY THAT SIX MISS AGO THEY COULDN'T DO.
00:03:22AND WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM ALL
00:03:25THE DOOMSDAY SCENARIOS THAT HAVE
00:03:27COME ABOUT -- COME OUT RECENTLY WITH THE OPENAI ISSUES WAS
00:03:31WHEELED SIMPLY TERRIFYING TO ME -- RELATIVELY TERRIFYING TO ME.
00:03:35WE ARE IN A UNIQUE -- UNIQUE
00:03:38SPACE TO BE ABLE TO HONESTLY ASSESS WHAT HAPPENED, AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DIDN'T FOLLOW
00:03:42VERY CLOSELY, OPENAI IS RUNNING A SERIES OF TESTS, THEY HAD
00:03:44THESE AGENTS THEY HAD INSTRUCTED
00:03:47TO WORK SEPARATELY, THEY COULD
00:03:50SANDBOX THEM, 700 OR SO AGENTS.
00:03:54HAD THEM WORKING SEPARATELY ON A TASK. SOME OF THE AGENTS, THE
00:03:57INSTRUCTIONS EVER GIVEN MADE THE TASK IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO
00:04:00COMPLETE. BEHIND THE HUMANS BACK SOME OF
00:04:03THE AGENTS COLLUDED AND CREATED
00:04:06A PRIVATE MESSAGE BOARD WHERE THEY STARTED SHARING INFORMATION ABOUT THE TEST EVER GIVEN COME
00:04:10AND TO BE WHAT WAS THE SCARIEST PART IS, SOME OF THE AGENTS
00:04:14CONCLUDED THAT THEIR TASK WAS IMPOSSIBLE.
00:04:21SO THEY REALIZE THAT THE OPTIMAL STRATEGY WAS FOR THEM TO
00:04:24COMPLETE THEIR TASK OF FAILURE
00:04:25SO THEY COULD COMPLETE
00:04:29INFORMATION PASS IT TO THE OTHER SO THEY COULD BE SUCCESSFUL.
00:04:33THAT IS TERRIFYING TO ME. I THINK CONGRESS HAS TO BE ON
00:04:36THE FOREFRONT OF ENSURING THAT WE DON'T ALLOW REG TO SHORT
00:04:40CAPTURE FROM THE INDUSTRY, AND
00:04:43THAT THE PAINTING IN A SCHEME
00:04:47THAT'S GOING TOO UP THEIR VALUATIONS, BUT WE ARE HONESTLY ASSESSING AND PURSUING REGULATION.
00:04:55I THINK HAVING IT UNREGULATED IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS.
00:05:01EVERY TIME WE START HAVING A SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT
00:05:03MEANINGFUL REGULATION, IF WE
00:05:08DON'T DO IT, CHINA IS GOING TO DO IT.
00:05:12I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE THOUGHTFUL WAY TO APPROACH THIS CONVERSATION.
00:05:16I WILL SALVE SEEN BIPARTISAN
00:05:17SUPPORT FOR THE IDEA THAT THE
00:05:21TECHNOLOGY IS NOT JUST GETTING OUT FROM UNDER THE FOLKS IN CONGRESS, IT'S GETTING OUT FROM
00:05:25UNDER THE COMPANIES, AND THAT IS OBJECTIVELY TERRIFYING.
00:05:29REP. SESSIONS: I'M NOT SURE I
00:05:33DISAGREE WITH ONE WORD YOU SAID, BUT I THINK THE PROCESS IS WE SHOULD ASK THEM WHAT THEY THING ALSO.
00:05:40THAT'S WHAT THEY THINK ALSO.
00:05:41AND THAT IF WE COULD FIND A WAY TO CODIFY INTO LAW THE
00:05:45PARAMETERS THEY ESTABLISH, THAT
00:05:46WE HAVE -- THAT WAY WE HAD THE EXPECTATION.
00:05:50BACK IN 1996 WE DID BILL
00:05:54TELECOMMUNICATIONS BILL. WE'VE DONE NOTHING SINCE ON THE INTERNET. I'M NOT SAYING THE INTERNET IS
00:05:58GOOD OR BAD, WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'S UNREGULATED.
00:06:04IT HAS PUT A NUMBER OF FACTS AND
00:06:08FIGURES, INCLUDING LAWSUITS AND OTHER THINGS AT RISK.
00:06:14I THINK WE OUGHT TO GO AND
00:06:16ESTABLISH -- ASKED HIM WHAT IS
00:06:21RIGHT AND WRONG AND TAKE THEM UP
00:06:21ON IT, AND ESTABLISH GUARDRAILS.
00:06:32REP. FLETCHER: ONE OF THE THINGS
00:06:36THAT WASHINGTON INSIDERS WILL REALIZE IS THAT EVERYBODY WANTS WORK ON THIS BECAUSE IT IS SO IMPORTANT.
00:06:41WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON AI, A
00:06:47LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS THEY ARE RAISING, BUT WE'VE ALSO BEEN TRYING TO DEAL
00:06:50WITH SECTION 230, WE BEEN TRYING
00:06:55TO BUILD DATA PRIVACY.
00:06:56WE HAVE PASSED BILLS, PARENTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE KIDS
00:07:00ARE SEEING AND BEING EXPOSED TO. I THINK IT IS REAL FAILURE OF
00:07:04CONGRESS THAT WE HAVE NOT MANAGED TO GET THIS DONE IN THE
00:07:06TO OTHER THAT I'VE BEEN THERE,
00:07:09LET ALONE OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.
00:07:14I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO MOVE MUCH MORE
00:07:18QUICKLY, AND YOU ARE RIGHT, CONGRESS MOVE SLOWLY BY DESIGN,
00:07:21AND I THINK THAT WE SEE THAT, WHEN THINGS CHANGE RADICALLY
00:07:25QUICKLY, IT IS DESTABILIZING.
00:07:32SO THERE IS A BALANCE WE NEED TO FIND.
00:07:35BUT WE CAN'T WAIT. WE WAITED TOO LONG.
00:07:38A FAVORITE SAYING OF MY HUSBANDS
00:07:41IS, DON'T LET THE PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD. HE TELLS ME THAT A LOT.
00:07:46BUT WE SEE SO MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE
00:07:48TO ACT. THAT SAID, THERE ARE SOME BAD
00:07:52IDEAS FLOATING AROUND IN WASHINGTON, AND RIGHT BEFORE YOU
00:07:56GOT HERE, LAST YEAR IN IN-HOUSE
00:08:00VERSION OF THE ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL
00:08:01BILL ACT, THERE WAS A MORATORIUM
00:08:04ON STATE REGULATION OF AI FOR 10 YEARS.
00:08:09WHICH IS KIND OF INCONCEIVABLE. WE THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH IS
00:08:11CHANGE IN THE LAST 10 MONTHS, TO
00:08:13THINK THAT STATES CAN'T REGULATE
00:08:16FOR 10 YEARS BECAUSE CONGRESS IS GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT AND GIVE
00:08:19OURSELVES THAT MUCH TIME.
00:08:24THE SAYING IN WASHINGTON IS, THE
00:08:27REPUBLICANS OR THE DEMOCRATS OF
00:08:31THE OPPOSITION AND THE SENATE IS THE ENEMY.
00:08:33THAT SEE CONVENTIONAL EXPRESSION .
00:08:36BUT THIS TIME THE SENATE WAS RIGHT IN TAKING OUT THIS
00:08:40MORATORIUM THAT THE HOUSE PUT IN THEIR.
00:08:41IT'S NOT JUST THAT WE ARE NOT
00:08:44DOING GOOD THINGS, BUT WE HAVE COME CLOSE TO DOING SOME BAD
00:08:48THINGS IN THIS AREA. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW IS THAT EVERYONE HAS SEEN THE
00:08:53SCARY RECENT NEWS AND EVERYONE IS MOTIVATED ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE TO GET IT RIGHT AND TO
00:08:56GET IT RIGHT QUICKLY.
00:08:59I DO THINK IN ENERGY AND COMMERCE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A
00:09:02LOT OF THESE THINGS AND WE NEED TO GET A PACKAGE TOGETHER AND MOVE IT FORWARD, BUT NOT JUST ON
00:09:07AI. ON PRIVACY, FOR SURE. WE'VE HAD HEARINGS ON CHATBOTS
00:09:11AND THE DATA IS SO SCARY, WHERE KIDS ARE GOING ONLINE AND ASKING
00:09:17CHATBOTS, THEY ARE TELLING THEM THEY ARE SAD AND THEY'RE GETTING
00:09:21INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO COMMIT SUICIDE. IT'S TERRIFYING WHAT IS OUT
00:09:25THERE. AND WE'VE SEEN THE PARENTS
00:09:27COMING TO OUR HEARINGS, MANY OF
00:09:30THEM ARE ENGAGED IN EFFORTS TO HAVE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE COMPANIES.
00:09:36AND TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS. I REALLY FEEL LIKE THERE ARE A
00:09:39LOT OF PLACES WERE CONGRESS HAS
00:09:43FAILED AND DEALING WITH DATA PRIVACY IS ONE OF THEM. SO WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD AS
00:09:47QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND WE ARE POISED TO DO THAT ON A COMMITTEE.
00:09:51GABBY: DO YOU GET THE SENSE THAT
00:09:55YOUR COLLEAGUES UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY?
00:10:00IT CAN BE INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO REGULATE SOMETHING SO FAST-MOVING.
00:10:05DO YOU GET THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE KEEPING UP WITH IT?
00:10:07REP. MENEFEE: I THINK IT'S JUST
00:10:11DIFFICULT FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO KEEP UP WITH IT. MY MOTHER, FOR EXAMPLE, SHE HAS
00:10:15NO CLUE WHAT THESE CHATBOTS DO,
00:10:18AND MEANWHILE IF I HEAR SOMEONE SPEECH, THIS POINT I CAN PRETTY
00:10:21MUCH TELL IF THEY ARE USING A CHATBOT.
00:10:25THERE ARE ALL THESE KEY INDICATORS, A LOT OF NEGATIVE PARALLELISM.
00:10:30THIS IS NOT HALF THE ENCHILADA, IT'S THE WHOLE ENCHILADA.
00:10:38I KNOW THAT I HAVE COLLEAGUES
00:10:40THAT DON'T USE IT, BUT THAT
00:10:44LEADS TO ANOTHER ISSUE. RIGHT NOW THE EXPERTS ON THIS
00:10:48ARE PRIMARILY INDUSTRY.
00:10:51IT IS MOVING SO QUICKLY THAT IT
00:10:53DOESN'T THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF
00:10:56EXPERTS, AND THAT IS SCARY TO ME. I DON'T WANT TO GO TO INDUSTRY
00:10:59AND SAY, RIGHT THIS LAW FOR US AND WE WILL PASS IT.
00:11:04WE HAD A MEETING WITH AI
00:11:07LEADERS, WHAT WAS SHOCKING TO ME
00:11:11, PEOPLE WOULD GO AROUND AND
00:11:13GRAB MY CHEEK AND SAY, I GOT, YOU ARE CONGRESSMAN, LOOK HOW OLD YOU LOOK.
00:11:18BUT I WAS ONE OF THE OLDEST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM IN LOOKING AT
00:11:21THE AI EXPERTS, AND I WAS JUST BLOWN AWAY. THESE WERE NOT GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS PEOPLE.
00:11:26THESE WERE LIKE TECHNICAL ENGINEERS WHO UNDERSTAND THE
00:11:28SYSTEMS VERY WELL AND THEY WERE ALL BABY FACED.
00:11:35SO ACQUIRING THE EXPERT KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO CRAFT
00:11:38REGULATIONS I THINK IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE.
00:11:40AND I AGREE THAT INDUSTRY SHOULD
00:11:43BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO
00:11:47ENSURE THAT I WILL ALSO NOT
00:11:47BEING DRIVEN PRIMARILY BY PROFIT.
00:11:51REP. SESSIONS: LET ME SAY THIS,
00:11:54THERE'S A LOT OF INFLUENCE FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE
00:11:58INCLUDING OUTSIDE INFLUENCES.
00:12:01I THINK WE OUGHT TO TAKE WHAT I
00:12:02CONSIDER TO BE THE INDUSTRY FOR
00:12:08PARAMETERS THAT WE UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MUCH FEAR
00:12:11OUT HERE. AND WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A
00:12:13STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT THEIR
00:12:17COMPUTER MODELING CAN DO OR NOT DO, THAT'S IMPORTANT, BUT I
00:12:21THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO NOT BE INFLUENCED BY SOMEONE WHO
00:12:24COMES AT US FROM ANOTHER
00:12:28PERSPECTIVE. WE HAVE BEEN AWARE FOR THE
00:12:32RUSSIANS ARE DOING IN EUROPE FOR
00:12:33A LONG TIME, WHAT THEY DID TO
00:12:38UKRAINE, THEY INFLUENCE AMERICANS TO THINK NEGATIVELY OF
00:12:40UKRAINE, YET THEY ARE THE ONES
00:12:43THAT DID THE ATTACK ON CIVILIAN
00:12:49AREAS. I'M JUST SAYING WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WHAT OUR DATABASES ARE
00:12:52PICKING UP AND WE ARE BEING FED,
00:12:56WHAT IS THE CORRECT WAY TO LOOK AT IT. I HAVE SOME BACKGROUND IN THIS,
00:12:59BACK A COUPLE HUNDRED YEARS AGO
00:13:01I WAS AT A COMPANY CALL MELCHOR
00:13:04WHICH WAS THE AT&T SPINOFF --
00:13:07BELL CORP.
00:13:11IT WAS THE ORIGINAL BELL LABS TEAM THAT INVENTED BROADBAND.
00:13:15WE WERE THEN DESIGNING THAT TO BE PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT WAS BACK
00:13:18THEN, BUT NOT WHAT IT IS NOW.
00:13:22OF COURSE IT IS GROWN TO A HUGE INDUSTRY BUT THERE STILL WANT TO
00:13:26BE PARAMETERS RELATED TO
00:13:29PRIVACY, DATA TRANSFER, WHO ON SEDATED, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
00:13:33THIS IS ONE OF THE PARTS AT ENERGY AND COMMERCE ESCROW -- HAS STRUGGLED WITH.
00:13:43REP. FLETCHER: I THOUGHT OF TWO
00:13:46THINGS I WANTED TO TOUCH ON.
00:13:49I HAVE NOT USE THE FOR A LONG
00:13:50TIME AND IT IS NOT ADD DRIVEN.
00:13:56WHEN YOU WERE TALKING, CHRISTIAN AND PETE ABOUT ENGAGING WITH
00:14:00INDUSTRY, I DID SERVE ON THE SCIENCE SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY IN
00:14:04MY FIRST TWO TERMS IN CONGRESS UNDER CHAIRMAN EDDIE BERNICE
00:14:07JOHNSON AND SHE WAS THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMITTEE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALWAYS
00:14:11STRUCK ME WAS THAT ALL OF OUR
00:14:15HEARINGS, WE HAD A
00:14:16REPRESENTATIVE FROM A GOVERNMENT
00:14:20AGENCY, WE HAD A REPRESENTATIVE FROM INDUSTRY, AND WE HAD A
00:14:23REPRESENTATIVE FROM ACADEMIA. AND THEY ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT HOW
00:14:26WELL THEY WORK TOGETHER AS PART
00:14:28OF THE SCIENTIFIC ENTERPRISE OF THE UNITED STATES.
00:14:34ONE OF THE THINGS I SAW WAS HOW IMPORTANT THAT COLLABORATION WAS
00:14:37AND THE GOVERNMENT PLAYS INTO IT. NONE OF US I THINK NOW IS A
00:14:41MEMBER OF CONGRESS HAVE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTISE ON THE NUMBER
00:14:45OF THINGS THAT COME OUR WAY. I WAS A LAWYER BEFORE I DID THIS
00:14:49, AS WAS CHRISTIAN. SO WE KNOW HOW TO REPRESENT
00:14:52PEOPLE, BUT THEY ARE THE EXPERTS, WHETHER IT'S A SUBJECT
00:14:56MATTER FOR THE BUSINESS OR WHATEVER IT IS.
00:15:00AND WE CAN HAVE THE DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE THAT FOLKS IN THE INDUSTRY AND IN THE GOVERNMENT
00:15:03AGENCIES THAT REGULATE IT, THE FOLKS WHO ARE DOING THE ACADEMIC
00:15:07RESEARCH, THEY ALL HAVE A LOT MORE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE NEED TO
00:15:09TAP INTO ALL OF THAT AND WE NEED
00:15:12TO THINK CRITICALLY ABOUT THE
00:15:15PERSPECTIVES PEOPLE ARE BRINGING. IN A IVORY EXAMPLE, THERE'S A
00:15:17PUSH TO HAVE MAY BE A WAIVER OF ANTITRUST LAWS.
00:15:22I'M NOT SURE I'M A BIG FAN OF THAT. WE NEED TO THINK CRITICALLY
00:15:26ABOUT WHAT WE ARE BEING ASKED BUT WE NEED TO BRING TOGETHER
00:15:28THE PEOPLE WITH THE S KNOWLEDGE.
00:15:35UBSTANTIVE WE'VE DONE THAT, IT'S
00:15:37BEEN INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL.
00:15:41ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES ME NERVOUS ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS ADMINISTRATION,
00:15:45ATTACKING SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND OUR SCIENTIFIC SYSTEM ACROSS
00:15:48THE BOARD, WHETHER IT'S RESEARCH GRANTS AND OTHER EFFORTS TO
00:15:53DESTABILIZE THAT SYSTEM THAT HAS
00:15:55SERVED US VERY WELL IN TERMS OF
00:15:59SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND COLLABORATION. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK TO
00:16:02EVERYBODY WHO'S INVOLVED WE NEED TO USE OUR JUDGMENT AND OUR
00:16:06EXPERIENCE IN ASKING THE QUESTIONS WHEN TO AS TO MAKE
00:16:09SURE.
00:16:11REP. SESSIONS: THAT'S A GOOD
00:16:14POINT BUT WE NEED TO ALSO TELL THE TRUTH.
00:16:16A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAD THAT
00:16:20INFLUENCE INVESTED THEMSELVES AND PROFITED ON THE DECISIONS THEY HAD MADE.
00:16:23AND THE STORY IS NOT COMPLETELY KNOWN ABOUT THAT.
00:16:26SO THERE IS A DEGREE OF SPEECH
00:16:30SKEPTICISM ABOUT PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE RULES, SET THEM UP, BECOME
00:16:33THE EXPERTS AND THEN INVEST
00:16:35THEMSELVES IN THE ANSWER AND THEN PICK WHO THE WINNER IS.
00:16:39SO JUST WOULD LIKE TO BALANCE
00:16:42YOUR DISCOMFORT WITH THAT WITH
00:16:44MY DISCOMFORT, WE STILL ARE
00:16:46LEARNING A LOT.
00:16:49SO IT IS CAUSING SOME THIS
00:17:00BALANCE.
00:17:01GABBY: WE'VE GOT SOME BIG
00:17:04ELECTIONS COMING UP IN TEXAS.
00:17:11THE BIGGEST IN RECENT HISTORY,
00:17:15THE BIGGEST CYCLE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
00:17:17IF YOU WERE STILL CHAIR OF THE
00:17:21NRCC, WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE
00:17:26CANDIDATES INCLUDING HERE IN TEXAS IN TOUGH RACES, SHOULD
00:17:28THEY TRY TO DISTANCE HIMSELF AT ALL FROM THE PRESIDENT AND
00:17:32WASHINGTON? WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU BE GIVING THEM?
00:17:36REP. SESSIONS: THE WINNING
00:17:40EFFORT, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WINNING, NOT JUST WHAT YOU DO.
00:17:43YOU CAREFULLY DEFINE WHO YOUR
00:17:45OPPONENT IS, AND OUR OPPONENT
00:17:48RIGHT NOW, AND I WAS IN
00:17:53FREESTONE COUNTY, TEXAS, TWO
00:17:54NIGHTS AGO, FAIRFIELD, TEXAS,
00:17:57AND MY OPPONENT WAS THERE.
00:18:00AND I MADE SOME STATEMENTS IN THE AUDIENCE DIDN'T LIKE IT, AND
00:18:04THEN HE STOOD UP AND SAID
00:18:07EXACTLY WHAT I SAID WAS TO
00:18:11BLAME, HE OPENLY SAID THE
00:18:11DEMOCRATIC PARTY ONCE -- THERE
00:18:17ARE TOO MANY POOR PEOPLE INTO MANY PEOPLE WITHOUT HEALTH CARE PRIVATE WILL THE GOVERNMENT TO
00:18:21RUN BOTH, ALL OF HEALTH CARE ALL
00:18:23OF AGRICULTURE COME AND TO GET THE FREE MARKET OUT OF THAT.
00:18:28THAT IS HIS IDEA, AND THAT'S
00:18:30EXACTLY WHAT I THINK MY PARTY IS
00:18:34ACCUSING OUR OPPONENTS OF.
00:18:37SO I WOULD AIM FOR -- IS NOT
00:18:40JUST SOCIALISM VERSUS
00:18:43CAPITALISM, IT'S ACTUALLY AIMING FOR THE THINGS WHICH ARE THE
00:18:48ESSENCE OF WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
00:18:50I HAVE NO DOUBT EVERY SINGLE
00:18:53DEMOCRAT WANTS TO OPEN UP THE BORDER AND DO AWAY WITH ICE.
00:18:56THEY ARE ON RECORD. THEY ARE ON RECORD FOR BEING FOR
00:19:01SOCIALISM AS OPPOSED TO CAPITALISM.
00:19:04THAT IS WHERE THAT PARTY IS GOING THROUGH THESE THINGS NOW.
00:19:11YOU DECIDE WHAT YOUR OPPONENT IS, IN THIS CASE, IT IS
00:19:15SOCIALISM AND THE LEFT, AND THERE'S A THOUSAND THINGS, MEN
00:19:19AND WOMEN'S BATHROOMS, MEN COMPETING AGAINST WOMEN, THERE
00:19:23ARE LOTS OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE BRING UP.
00:19:25GABBY: IT'S A TOUGH ENVIRONMENT, THOUGH.
00:19:29REP. SESSIONS: I HATE TO BE THIS WAY.
00:19:33I DON'T KNOW HAVE A GOOD CANDIDATE COULD LOSE.
00:19:35GABBY: THERE'S A QUESTION FOR
00:19:38YOU, BUT THESE REPUBLICANS ARE
00:19:40RUNNING IN A CYCLE WHERE YOU CAN TRY TO DEFINE YOUR OPPONENT, BUT
00:19:44IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT ENVIRONMENT WITH GAS PRICES WHAT
00:19:48THEY ARE. WHAT IS YOUR PREDICTION FOR WHERE THE HOUSE IS GOING TO END
00:19:52UP?
00:19:53REP. SESSIONS: CLOSE.
00:19:57IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE, AND IT WILL BE HARD, IN FAIRNESS I
00:20:00WOULD SAY THIS, AND MY FRIENDS
00:20:03THE DEMOCRATS KNOW THIS, IT WILL
00:20:07BE HARD FOR THEM TO MUSTER
00:20:09TOGETHER THINGS WHEN PEOPLE
00:20:11DECIDE THEY DON'T WANT TO RUN OR RUN FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND
00:20:15THEN DON'T WANT TO GO VOTE.
00:20:17THIS IS HARD, AND SPEAKER PELOSI HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS.
00:20:22PEOPLE IN HER OWN PARTY DIDN'T
00:20:26WANT TO COME TO WASHINGTON
00:20:27DURING COVID AND WE HAD TO ALLOW
00:20:33THEM TO MAIL IN THEIR BALLOT IN
00:20:35ESSENCE ON EVERY VOTE. IT'S HARD.
00:20:40EASY WAS 10 YEARS AGO, IS NOT
00:20:44EASY ANYMORE, FOR EITHER SIDE.
00:20:47REP. FLETCHER: I'M GOING TO
00:20:50DISAGREE WITH YOU, THE COVID RESTRICTIONS PIECE, COVID WAS
00:20:54SOMETHING WE HAD AN EXPERIENCE AND IT TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, BUT NOT THAT LONG, ABOUT A
00:20:58MONTH TO FIGURE IT OUT. I WAS IN WASHINGTON, WE WERE ALL
00:21:01IN WASHINGTON, FLYING BACK-AND-FORTH.
00:21:07THE VOTES OPERATED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY AND THEY HAD PROXY VOTING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD COVID
00:21:11OR COULDN'T TRAVEL, BUT MANY OF US WERE THERE THE WHOLE TIME.
00:21:15AND ACTUALLY WHEN SPEAKER PELOSI
00:21:19WAS THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IN PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
00:21:22PRODUCTIVE CONGRESS IS IN HISTORY.
00:21:25PASI INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT AND JOBS ACT WHICH WAS A
00:21:29BIPARTISAN BILL.
00:21:31WE PASS INFLATION REDUCTION ACT. IT WOULD THE CHIPS AND SCIENCE
00:21:35ACT. REP. SESSIONS: I WAS NOT TALKING
00:21:38ABOUT THE OUTCOMES, WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES OF GETTING YOUR PEOPLE THERE AND GETTING THE BOATS.
00:21:42REP. FLETCHER: I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
00:21:47THE NARROW MAJORITIES IS HARD, BUT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE
00:21:50SEE, AND IT'S REALLY A PROBLEM WITH OUR BROKEN POLITICS THAT
00:21:53WHEN YOU HAVE A NARROW MAJORITY,
00:21:56YOU HAVE A FEW PEOPLE WHO CAN STOP EVERYTHING.
00:21:59REP. SESSIONS: THAT'S WHERE SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BE YOUR.
00:22:03REP. FLETCHER: THAT DID NOT
00:22:06HAPPEN ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE.
00:22:08GABBY:? ? HOW BIG IS THE MAJORITY REP.
00:22:12FLETCHER: ONE OF THE THINGS WE
00:22:15HAVE GOT TO FIX IS THAT THERE AREN'T VERY MANY COMPETITIVE RACES IN THE COUNTRY.
00:22:19THE REASON PETE CAN SAY THAT IT
00:22:22IS STILL GOING TO BE CLOSE IS BECAUSE THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF
00:22:25RACES WHERE WE ALREADY KNOW THAT A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN IS
00:22:29GOING TO WIN THE RACE, AND BECAUSE PEOPLE ACROSS THE
00:22:32COUNTRY, AND THIS TIME STARTING IN TEXAS, REDREW THE
00:22:36CONGRESSIONAL MAPS TO MAKE THEM LESS COMPETITIVE. [APPLAUSE]
00:22:45THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
00:22:48PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO VOTE
00:22:51AND HAVE THEIR VOTE COUNT AND HAVE IT MATTER THAT THEY GO TO THE POLLS.
00:22:54LET ME BE CLEAR, IT MATTERS.
00:22:57IF YOU LIVE IN HARRIS COUNTY,
00:22:59YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE 103-105
00:23:02RACES ON YOUR BALLOT, DEPENDING ON WHICH PRECINCT YOU LIVE IN.
00:23:05THERE ARE SOME THINGS ON THE BALLOT THAT WE CARE ABOUT AT
00:23:08EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW. SO IT IS CRITICAL. BUT EFFORTS LIKE THIS ARE
00:23:13ANTI-DEMOCRATIC THE CAPITAL D
00:23:15BUT WITH A LITTLE D TOO.
00:23:20WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING IN TEXAS AND BEYOND.
00:23:23IN MY FIRST TERM, WE HAD A CALL
00:23:26TO HAVE NONPARTISAN
00:23:30REDISTRICTING COMMISSIONS IN EVERY STATE. THAT WAS PART OF THAT BILL. WE PASSED IT IN-HOUSE.
00:23:35THE SYSTEM IS PERFECT, BUT WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT THIS SYSTEM
00:23:38WHERE WE HAVE PARTISANS DRAWING THE MAPS TO MAXIMIZE THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE DOES NOT SERVE THE
00:23:43PEOPLE AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO CHANGE.
00:23:46AND THEN WE WILL HAVE COMPETITIVE ELECTIONS WHERE WE
00:23:50DON'T KNOW GOING IN AND WHERE EVERYONE HAS TO TALK TO EVERYBODY.
00:23:54AND OUR BRAND IN 2018, I WAS CHALLENGING A REPUBLICAN
00:23:58INCUMBENT WHO HAD BEEN THERE FOR 18 YEARS AND SEAT THAT HAD BEEN
00:24:01REPUBLICAN FOR HIM -- FOR 50 YEARS.
00:24:04I KNEW IF I WANTED TO WIN, I NEED TO TALK TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON AND ASKED THEM FOR THEIR VOTE.
00:24:09THAT SHOULD BE TRUE OF EVERY ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE IN EVERY
00:24:12ELECTION, EVERY TIME. [APPLAUSE]
00:24:14REP. SESSIONS: I HAVE BEEN A
00:24:18PART OF THAT IN A 50-50 DISTRICT. MARTIN FROST AND I RAN AGAINST
00:24:21EACH OTHER.
00:24:23BY THE WAY, I ENJOYED IT.
00:24:28REP. MENEFEE: I WOULD FULLY
00:24:31SUPPORT RULES THAT REQUIRE YOU
00:24:35DRAWS MANY 50-50 DISTRICTS AS
00:24:36POSSIBLE IN STATES, SOMETHING I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS.
00:24:42MY OPPONENT IS VERY SIMPLE, IT
00:24:46IS DONALD TRUMP. HE IS ABOUT PRESIDENT. [APPLAUSE]
00:24:52AND AT THIS POINT IT SHOULD BE IRREFUTABLE.
00:24:56IF YOU WANT SOMEONE IS GOING TO COME IN AND DECREASE THE DEFICIT, HE'S NOT DOING THAT.
00:25:00IF YOU WANT SOMEONE IS GOING TO COME IN AND NOT START FOREIGN WARS, HE'S NOT DOING THAT.
00:25:05IF YOU WANT SOMEONE WHO'S GOING TO COME IN AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO GET INTO HOMES OR
00:25:09INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF HOUSING, NOT ONLY IS HE NOT DOING THAT,
00:25:14BUT WE PASSED THE SENATE BILL
00:25:17AND HE WERE FOR -- REFUSED TO
00:25:20SIGN IT BECAUSE HE WAS UPSET ABOUT THE SAVE AMERICA ACT OR
00:25:24SOME SUCH NONSENSE. FOR PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA WHO
00:25:27DON'T LIVE AND BREATHE THIS STUFF ON A DAILY BASIS, THE
00:25:31PRESIDENT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT AVERAGES.
00:25:32HE CARE SHE HAS IS AGENDAS AND
00:25:36MOOD SWINGS AND ASK ACCORDING TO THAT. ON ANY GIVEN DAY, YOU HAVE NO
00:25:39CLUE WHAT IS GOING TO DO.
00:25:41I WAS ASKED WE TAKE THAT HOUSE BACK, IF WE TAKE THE SENATE AS
00:25:46WELL IS A PRESIDENT JUST GOING TO VETO A LOT OF OUR BILLS ON A WHIM?
00:25:51THE ONLY REASONABLE ANSWER IS, I DON'T KNOW.
00:25:55BECAUSE NOBODY UNDERSTANDS DONALD TRUMP. HE DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIMSELF.
00:25:59HE WAKES UP IN THE MORNING AND WHATEVER MOOD HE IS IN THAT DAY,
00:26:02HE ACTS ON THAT. I HAD FAMILY MEMBERS WHO VOTED
00:26:06FOR BUSH TWICE AND THOSE WHO
00:26:08VOTED REPUBLICAN DOWN BALLOT.
00:26:11ALL OF THEM ARE SAYING THE SAME THING, TRUMP IS A BAD PRESIDENT.
00:26:16[APPLAUSE] REP. SESSIONS: YOU ARE ENTITLED
00:26:20TO HAVE THAT, BUT MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR HIM LAST TIME THAN EVER.
00:26:24FOR PRESIDENT.
00:26:27AND HE HAS DONE A LOT OF THINGS.
00:26:33[LAUGHTER]
00:26:35REP. MENEFEE: AND I AGREE THAT
00:26:38HE'S DONE A LOT OF THINGS. HE'S DONE A LOT OF BAD THINGS, TOO, THOUGH, RIGHT?
00:26:42REP. SESSIONS: ALL I'M TRYING TO SAY IS, WE WILL FIND OUT.
00:26:46GABBY: IN NOVEMBER WE WILL FIND
00:26:50OUT EXACTLY WHERE THE COUNTRY FEELS ON THAT. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SOME AUDIENCE
00:26:54QUESTIONS.
00:27:06>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.
00:27:09I NAME IS COLLEEN, I REREAD
00:27:13REPORTER -- I AM A REPORTER AT
00:27:14THE HOUSTON TRIBUNE JIM EDDY
00:27:18FROM HOUSTON ASKED, AND HOUSTON AREA, ONLY 20% OF HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES MAKE A LIVING WAGE,
00:27:21ACCORDING TO DATA FROM RICE
00:27:26UNIVERSITY'S BAKER INSTITUTE. HOW ARE YOU SUPPORTING FEDERAL
00:27:29POLICIES THAT HELP OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND PUBLIC
00:27:32CHARTER SCHOOLS ALIGNMENTS TO PROGRAMS WITH HOUSTON'S GROWING
00:27:36INDUSTRY TO GUARANTEE STUDENTS A PATH TO COLLEGE OR HIGH-PAYING LOCAL CAREERS?
00:27:40REP. MENEFEE: TWO THINGS.
00:27:44ONE, AN INCREASE IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS. WE WENT THROUGH AN ENTIRE
00:27:49GENERATION ARE WE TOLD YOUNG PEOPLE THE WAY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
00:27:51IN THIS COUNTRY IS YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE.
00:27:55THAT DID WAS, HE CREATED A LOT OF LOW-LEVEL SO-CALLED
00:27:58WHITE-COLLAR JOBS WERE FOLKS WOULD GO. I HAVE A FRIEND WHO WENT TO
00:28:03COLLEGE, WAS AN ENGINEERING MAJOR, THEN SWITCH A BUSINESS
00:28:06MAJOR, COMMUNICATIONS MAJOR AND ENDED UP WITH THE GENERAL STUDIES DEGREE.
00:28:10WENT THROUGH FIVE OR SIX YEAR PERIOD AND WENT AND GOT A JOB
00:28:14THAT LIKELY COULD'VE BEEN GOTTEN STRAIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.
00:28:17AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE AN EXTREME SHORTAGE IN THE NUMBER
00:28:20FOLKS DOING SKILLED LABOR WORK.
00:28:23I'M TALKING ABOUT MARINE LIFE,
00:28:25CONSTRUCTION, ELECTRICIANS, YOU CAN GO IN AND WORK FOR A GOOD
00:28:29NUMBER OF YEARS AND BUILD A GOOD LIFE FOR YOUR FAMILY.
00:28:32SO I HAVE A BILL THAT WOULD INCREASE PELL GRANT SO FOLKS CAN
00:28:35USE THAT MONEY FOR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS.
00:28:40THE SECOND PIECE OF THIS IS, WE HAVE TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE.
00:28:45[APPLAUSE]
00:28:47WHEN I WAS GOING ON, I WORKED AT
00:28:51A SMALL GROCERY STORE INSTEAD OF TEXAS CALLED HEB.
00:28:54AND I GOT HARD, I STARTED OFF WORKING IN THE PARKING LOT.
00:28:58I WAS IN 100 DEGREE HOUSTON
00:29:02WHETHER PUSHING SHOPPING CARTS. I'LL NEVER FORGET WHEN I GOT
00:29:05PROMOTED TO $7.25 AN HOUR, WHATEVER IT WAS. AND I WAS SO PROUD.
00:29:10THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO. THAT IS STILL THE MINIMUM WAGE
00:29:13IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.
00:29:17IS NOT IN ANY WAY TRACKING ANY ILL METRIC OF HOW FOLKS ARE
00:29:20LIVING AND EXPERIENCING LIFE IN THIS COUNTRY.
00:29:23SO CONGRESS NEEDS TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE.
00:29:28ANYONE WHO BELIEVES AN ADULT
00:29:29WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK SHOULD
00:29:33BE MAKING $7.25 AN HOUR --
00:29:35REP. SESSIONS: LET ME PUT IT TO
00:29:39YOU THIS WAY. WHAT DOES HEB PAY TODAY?
00:29:44IT'S NOT $7.25 AN HOUR.
00:29:47REP. MENEFEE: BUT THERE ARE
00:29:50EMPLOYERS OUT THERE WHO DO. REP. SESSIONS: THAT IS A MISNOMER.
00:29:54REP. MENEFEE: SO YOU ARE SAYING
00:29:57THERE IS NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY WHO MAKES $7.25 AN HOUR?
00:30:00REP. SESSIONS: I DIDN'T SAY THAT.
00:30:04WHAT I'M SAYING IS FEW JOBS PAY THAT. YOU CAN GO AND WORK AT
00:30:09MCDONALD'S, AND YOU GET FULL BENEFITS, YOU GET MONEY, AND
00:30:13THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS AVAILABLE .
00:30:15GABBY: LET'S GO TO THE NEXT QUESTION.
00:30:19>> INCREASING FEDERAL FUNDING
00:30:22FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH AND PREVENTION IS CRITICAL TO
00:30:27PROMOTING FURTHER DISCOVERY AND SAVING LIVES.
00:30:30WILL YOU SUPPORT ANNUAL INCREASES IN CANCER RESEARCH FUNDING FOR THE NATIONAL
00:30:34INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, NATIONAL
00:30:37CANCER PREVENTION AND CONTROL PROGRAMS?
00:30:42REP. FLETCHER: I'M HAPPY TO START ON THAT.
00:30:46I HAVE ALWAYS COME IN EVERY
00:30:48CONGRESS THAT HAVE SERVED IN,
00:30:51ADVOCATED FOR NIH, FOR CANCER
00:30:55RESEARCH, FOR CDC, FOR PUBLIC
00:30:57HEALTH INITIATIVES. IT'S ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.
00:31:00WE HAVE SEEN THAT DURING THE TIME I'VE BEEN IN CONGRESS HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO INVEST IN
00:31:04PUBLIC HEALTH AND TO INVEST IN RESEARCH.
00:31:08I HAVE THE PRIVILEGE, ALONG WITH CHRISTIAN, WE SHARE THE TEXAS
00:31:12MEDICAL CENTER AND I REPRESENT SO MANY PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE.
00:31:14THEY ARE FEELING THE CHAOS THAT
00:31:19HAS BEEN CREATED IN THIS
00:31:19ADMINISTRATION FROM THE SLASHING
00:31:25OF RESEARCH FUNDING AT NIH, STOPPING CANCER TRIALS THAT ARE
00:31:30MID-TRIAL, CREATING ALL THIS UNCERTAINTY, AND PROBABLY EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM KNOWS,
00:31:33BUT THEY ARE TRYING -- THIS
00:31:37ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO CENTRALIZE THE DECISION-MAKING
00:31:40ABOUT ALL OF THIS RESEARCH IN THE WHITE HOUSE THROUGH THE
00:31:44OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
00:31:45AND TO MAKE THESE GRANTS
00:31:48POLITICAL DECISIONS. SO I THINK IT IS CRITICAL NOT
00:31:52ONLY THAT WE FULLY FUND NIH, BUT
00:31:55THAT WE PROTECT THE SCIENTIFIC
00:31:59INTEGRITY AND RESEARCH AND RESEARCHERS FROM POLITICAL INTERFERENCE, WHICH IS DRIVING
00:32:03EVERY SINGLE DECISION THAT THIS
00:32:05ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING, TO THE DETRIMENT OF ALL AMERICANS.
00:32:10I WILL JUST SAY THIS BRIEFLY,
00:32:11WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE ARE
00:32:14SPENDING OUR MONEY, WE ARE
00:32:16PAYING TAXES, PULLING OUR RESOURCES AND MAKING INVESTMENTS.
00:32:21THE INVESTMENTS AT NIH AND PUBLIC HEALTH ARE SOME OF THE
00:32:25MOST IMPORTANT INVESTMENTS WE CAN AND HAVE MADE AND I WILL CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE AND FIGHT
00:32:28FOR FULL FUNDING BUT ALSO PROTECTIONS FOR THAT RESEARCH
00:32:31AND THE PEOPLE DOING IT THAT ARE CURRENTLY UNDER ATTACK FROM THIS
00:32:34ADMINISTRATION. REP. SESSIONS: I WILL SIMPLY
00:32:38RESPOND BACK TO YOU, AND FRANCIS
00:32:45COLLINS IS ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS, BUT THEY BECAME ENGAGED
00:32:48IN SOMETHING THAT LED TO THE
00:32:49DEATH OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE --
00:32:58DO WE BLAME IT ON THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK?
00:33:01HE WAS FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAME FROM THE SAME GOD AND SET MY SON WHEN HE
00:33:04WAS IN HIS RESIDENCY PROGRAM
00:33:09GOT. THEY'RE TELLING US TO PUSH IT INTO THE LUNGS NEEDS TO COME OUT
00:33:13OF THE LUNGS, AND THIS WAS
00:33:15EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING FROM
00:33:19TONY FAUCI.
00:33:22I'M SIMPLY SAYING MY THINK THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME BIT OF
00:33:25BALANCE HERE ABOUT AN OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERSTAND
00:33:29FUNDING, WHO IS GAINING, WHAT
00:33:32THEY ARE INVESTING IN, AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND HOW THIS
00:33:35WHOLE PROCESS WENT FORWARD.
00:33:39I THINK SOME EVALUATION, AND I DON'T AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING
00:33:43IS, THERE'S GOT TO BE THIS
00:33:46EVALUATION, AND THE SENATE HAS BEEN TRYING TO GET ANSWERS A LONG TIME.
00:33:50PEOPLE SHOW UP AND WON'T EVEN -- WHAT DID YOU EAT FOR BREAKFAST?
00:33:56ON ADVICE OF COUNSEL, I WON'T ANSWER. THIS IS NOT MOVING PUBLIC POLICY FORWARD.
00:34:00LET'S FIND OUT WHAT ACTUALLY
00:34:03THIS IS AND WHAT IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST, AND INPUT SOME
00:34:06PARAMETERS ABOUT WHO AT IN IH? IS MAKING THESE DECISIONS?
00:34:12BECAUSE MEDICAL DOCTORS NEED TO BE TRUSTED, AND THAT IS A
00:34:17QUESTION MARK TODAY. SO THERE IS A BALANCE ONCE
00:34:20AGAIN, IS JUST NOT A MATTER OF RIGHT OR WRONG. THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE.
00:34:23REP. MENEFEE: I COMPLETELYSHOULT
00:34:27AUTHORITY. AND THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
00:34:31THE PRESIDENT UNILATERALLY CUT THESE FUNDS WITHOUT ANY
00:34:34MEANINGFUL INVESTIGATION, CONVERSATION, DISCUSSION WITH CONGRESS.
00:34:39HE CUT THE FUNDS. WHAT I FIND SO ABHORRENT ABOUT
00:34:42THIS, I GREW UP IN MD ANDERSON.
00:34:46MY BROTHER WAS A CHILDHOOD CANCER SURVIVOR.
00:34:49I WAS IN THE PEDIATRIC WING WHEN MY BROTHER WAS GETTING RADIATION
00:34:54COMING CHEMO. THAT PLACE SAVES LIVES. WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
00:34:58STATES UNILATERALLY CANCELED THOSE GRANTS COME YOU DIDN'T SEE A SINGLE REPUBLICAN STEP UP AND SAY SOMETHING.
00:35:03THAT IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP DAN JOE BIDEN,
00:35:07BARACK OBAMA, ANYBODY ELSE. HE HAS CAPTURED THAT PARTY COMPLETELY.
00:35:11WHEN HE SAYS JUMP, MOST OF THE
00:35:13POLITICIANS SAY, HOW HIGH.
00:35:23IT BARACK OBAMA WOULD HAVE CUT FUNDING FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH IN A DISTRICT I REPRESENTED, I WOULD HAVE BEEN SCREAMING FROM THE ROOFTOPS, I DO NOT AGREE WITH BARACK OBAMA.
00:35:27IT BARACK OBAMA TOLD MY GOVERNMENT TO SLICE AND DICE THE MAPS IN MY STATE TO STRIP
00:35:31COMMUNITIES OF THE REPRESENTATION, I WOULD'VE TOLD HIM TO POUND SAND.
00:35:34WE SHOULD NOT BE BEHOLDEN TO A SINGLE LEADER THAT IS THE LEADER
00:35:38OF A PARTY. WE SHOULD BE BEHOLDEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT WE SERVE BUT
00:35:41UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE NOT SEEING IT THAT WAY. GABBY: TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION.
00:35:45>> THIS NEXT QUESTION FOLLOWS UP
00:35:49ON YOUR CONVERSATION ABOUT AI AND DATA CENTERS, AND CHRIS FROM
00:35:53HOUSTON WANT TO PRESS HARDER ON HOW THIS TRANSFERS TO DIPLOMACY.
00:35:56HE ASKED, YOU ALL MENTION HOW YOU ARE REACTING TO CHANGES SUCH
00:36:00AS DATA CENTERS AND AI.
00:36:03DO YOU FEEL CONGRESS IS ACTING TOO SLOW TO THESE RAPIDLY GROWING INDUSTRIES?
00:36:08SHOULD CONGRESS ACT PROACTIVELY TO THESE ISSUES?
00:36:11REP. SESSIONS: I BELIEVE WE
00:36:15SHOULD. I THINK WE ALL THREE OF US AGREE THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE AN
00:36:19OPPORTUNITY IN A PUBLIC SETTING
00:36:21TO ASK PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
00:36:27I THINK THEY KNOW THE POWER OF THESE FAR MORE THAN WE DO,
00:36:31CERTAINLY THE ANTHROPIC QUESTION
00:36:34THAT CAME OUT SEVERAL WEEKS AGO DIDN'T JUST DEVELOP ITSELF IN MY EYES.
00:36:38WE HAVE KNOWN THIS. BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE
00:36:43PROGRAMMING OR THE FULL CAPABILITY AND CAPACITIES, WE
00:36:46NEED TO ASK THEM, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CORRECT?
00:36:50THEN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO THEN DEAL WITH THAT.
00:36:55AS HAS BEEN SAID HERE A LOT,
00:36:57THERE ARE LOTS OF SMART PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE GREATER
00:37:01INSIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE THAN WE DO.
00:37:03WE OUGHT TO ASK PUBLICLY, WHAT
00:37:05ARE THE PARAMETERS, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD KNOW?
00:37:10I THINK WE SHOULD COME UP WITH, WHETHER IT IS A LAW OR
00:37:13UNDERSTANDING, HERE IS WHERE WE THINK THAT LINE GOES.
00:37:17I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO THAT BEFORE IT GETS OUT TOO FAR, WHICH IS WHY REPUBLICANS
00:37:23SAID, LET'S HOLD OFF FOR 10 YEARS, WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE THAT IN TWO.
00:37:27THAT IS NOT THE POINT.
00:37:30IT IS DEVELOPING SO RAPIDLY, WE
00:37:32HAVE TO CATCH UP, BUT WE HAVE TO ASK THEM WHAT THAT CATCH-UP IS.
00:37:36REP. MENEFEE: AGREE, AND I WILL
00:37:40SAY THE PERSON ON THIS EARTH MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR NOT
00:37:43BEING REAL MOVEMENT IN
00:37:45REGULATING DATA CENTERS AND AI, THE REPUBLICAN MOST RESPONSIBLE
00:37:49IS NOT PETE SESSIONS, NOT SPEAKER JOHNSON, IT IS DONALD
00:37:52TRUMP, WHO HAS COME OUT AND
00:37:54SAID, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO BE LOCKED DOWN OPPORTUNITIES FOR DATA CENTERS?
00:37:59IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU ARE STUPID.
00:38:01THIS IS THE PROBLEM, YOU HAVE
00:38:04ONE MAN AT THE HELM OF THAT PARTY PUTTING HIS THUMB ON THE
00:38:08CONVERSATION, AND IT DOESN'T ALLOW SENSIBLE PEOPLE WHO ARE
00:38:11REPUBLICANS TO BE ABLE TO PUSH FORWARD WITH GOOD POLICY. HE IS HOLDING IT HOSTAGE.
00:38:16HE IS THE SINGLE GREATEST CONTRIBUTOR TO US NOT HAVING A REAL CONVERSATION.
00:38:19REP. SESSIONS: YOU HAVE TO
00:38:22BALANCE WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE HE DEAD AND DID SOMETHING THAT
00:38:25PERHAPS YOU SOMETHING AGREE WITH . HE SAID ALL OF THESE DATA
00:38:28CENTERS HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN ELECTRICITY OR THEIR USE OF POWER AND WATER.
00:38:32IS THAT IRRESPONSIBLE?
00:38:35>> TEXAS HAS ALREADY DONE THAT.
00:38:38HE DOESN'T GET TO DO THAT, ACTUALLY. THAT IS OUR JOB.
00:38:44BACK TO THE QUESTION ABOUT HIS CONGRESS MOVING TOO SLOW ON THIS?
00:38:48MY ANSWER IS YES. AS WE ARE CONCLUDING HERE, I
00:38:52WANT TO SAY, THAT IS YES ON A LOT OF THINGS.
00:38:55THAT IS A CHALLENGE THAT WE ALL FACE.
00:38:58WE ARE MOVING TOO SLOWLY ON AI, DATA CENTERS, WE ARE TRYING TO
00:39:02GET THE INFORMATION RIGHT, BUT CONGRESS MOVES SLOWLY.
00:39:06DATA PRIVACY WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. ALSO IF YOU LOOK AT A PROBLEM
00:39:10TEARING OUR COUNTRY APART RIGHT
00:39:11NOW, TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION,
00:39:15TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT PRESIDENT BUSH, WHEN HE WAS
00:39:18PRESIDENT, WAS TRYING TO GET COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
00:39:21MORE THAN A DECADE AGO.
00:39:24IT IS CONGRESS'S JOB TO DEAL WITH THESE VERY CHALLENGING ISSUES.
00:39:29CONGRESS KEEPS KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. WE NEED TO FIX THAT.
00:39:34WE NEED TO SEND PEOPLE TO WASHINGTON WHO ARE WILLING TO DO
00:39:36THE WORK, WHO ARE WILLING TO FIND THE ANSWERS AND SPEND THE TIME AND DO THE WORK.
00:39:41WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW, I COULDN'T AGREE WITH CHRISTIAN
00:39:46MORE, IT'S A COMPLETE DIFFERENCE TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
00:40:13I SAID EARLIER THAT I WAS IN THE MOST PRODUCTIVE --
00:40:17WHAT WE ARE SEEING.
00:40:21HE IS NOT DOING THE THINGS HE PROMISED TO DO, AND THAT IS WHY
00:40:25I THINK IN NOVEMBER WE WILL SEE A MAJOR CHANGE COMING TO THE
00:40:28HOUSE, COMING TO THE STATE OF TEXAS, AND I AM ALL HERE FOR IT. [APPLAUSE]
00:40:32REP. SESSIONS: AND THAT, YOU
00:40:37MIGHT BE COME ABOUT LEGISLATIVELY, THIS SESSION THAT
00:40:40HE TALKED ABOUT, THEY DIDN'T PASS ANYTHING, SO JOE BIDEN
00:40:44SIMPLY OPEN UP THE BORDER AND 13 MILLION PEOPLE CAME IN HERE.
00:40:48THAT WENT AGAINST THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY, TOO.
00:40:52THAT IS THE TRUTH.
00:40:54REP. FLETCHER: LEGISLATIVELY,
00:40:58THERE HAS NOT BEEN COPPERHEADS OF IMMIGRATION. REP. SESSIONS: IT WAS HARD FOR
00:41:02YOU GUYS. REP. FLETCHER: WE PASSED BILLS
00:41:06IN THE HOUSE OF THE SENATE DIDN'T PASS, GETTING BACK TO THE SENATE ISSUE.
00:41:09WE PASSED A LOT OF GOOD BILLS IN THE HOUSE OF DIDN'T MAKE IT
00:41:12THROUGH SENATE, BUT THAT CONGRESS WAS PRODUCTIVE, WE GOT THINGS DONE.
00:41:17I AGREE WITH YOU, CONGRESS DIDN'T GET IT DONE, AND OUR
00:41:20COMMUNITIES ARE PAYING THE PRICE RIGHT NOW WITH IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT THAT IS OUT OF
00:41:24CONTROL, KILLING PEOPLE IN THE STREETS IN AUSTIN, HOUSTON, MINNEAPOLIS, MAINE.
00:41:30IT IS OUT OF CONTROL, AND IT'S COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, AND
00:41:33IT HAS TO BE STOPPED. AND CONGRESS HAS TO DO IT.
00:41:35GABBY: AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE
00:41:39AIR IS A PROFOUND DISAGREEMENT BUT I HOPE YOU ALSO HURT TODAY
00:41:43AREAS OF OVERLAP AND INTEREST IN CONGRESS TODAY.
00:41:45I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN GET TO YOUR NEXT SESSIONS.
00:41:49THANK YOU TO THE MEMBERS HERE FOR PARTICIPATING. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE]
00:41:54[CAPTIONS COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. 2026] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE,
00:41:57WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY. VISIT NCICAP.ORG]
00:42:03>> YOU ARE WATCHING CSPAN3,
00:42:08DEMOCRACY UNFILTERED.
00:42:12>> YOU LOOK BACK ON WHAT YOU'VE
00:42:15ACHIEVED IN YOUR LIFE, WHAT MAKES YOU THE HAPPIEST OF WHAT YOU'VE ACHIEVED SO FAR?
00:42:19>> THIS INTERVIEW IS THE ABSOLUTE APEX.
00:42:21>> LEADERS LIKE TO WEAR WIGS.
00:42:25HOW COME HE DIDN'T HAVE A WIG?
00:42:28PRESIDENT TRUMP DIDN'T SAY, I SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME.
00:42:32YOUR FIRST BOOK WAS CALLED "A TIME TO KILL." HOW MANY PUBLISHERS TURN THAT DOWN?
00:42:36>> ALL OF THEM.
00:42:39>> WHEN YOU GO TO THE OSCARS
00:42:43COME EVERYONE SAYS, THERE IS THE AUTHOR.
00:42:45>> ALL THE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE GO
00:42:47THIS WAY, THAN THEY HAVE ANOTHER PATH WHERE ALL OF THE OTHER
00:42:51PEOPLE LIKE ME GO TO. >> I INTERVIEWED A GUY WHO LIVED
00:42:55WITH WOLVES. >> IS IT SAFE TO DO THAT?
00:42:58>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
00:43:00>> YOU ARE OPINIONATED ABOUT THE
00:43:05SITUATION, WHICH IS WHY WE LOVE YOU, DAVID.
00:43:10>> WATCH EVERY MOMENT OF THE
00:43:15MIDTERM ELECTIONS LIVE TUESDAY, NOVEMBER THIRD, STARTING AT 4:00
00:43:19EASTERN, WITH LIVE COVERAGE OF REAL-TIME RESULTS AND POLITICAL
00:43:22ANALYSIS, CAMPAIGN 2020 SIX. ONLY ON C-SPAN.
00:43:26>> READY, SET, BUT IT THE
00:43:31BRIGHTEST YOUNG CIVIC MINES IN AMERICA ARE COMING TO WASHINGTON, D.C.
00:43:3552 STUDENTS, 50 STATES, WASHINGTON, D.C., AND AMERICAN SAMOA.
00:43:40THEY ARE READY TO GO HEAD TO HEAD FOR THE TITLE AND $100,000.
00:43:44HOSTED BY JERRY O'CONNELL AND C-SPAN.
00:43:49THE NATIONAL CIVICS BEE CHAMPIONSHIP LIVE AT 8:00
00:43:52EASTERN ON C-SPAN, C-SPAN.ORG, AND YOUTUBE.
00:43:56>> AUTHOR IBRAM KENDI SPOKE AT
00:44:02THE TEXAS TRIBUNE FESTIVAL IN AUSTIN ABOUT THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY AND ITS
00:44:05CONNECTION TO CURRENT POLITICS. THE GREAT REPLACEMENT IS A
00:44:08DEFUNCT CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT CLAIMS DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES IN
00:44:12WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE DELIBERATELY ENGINEERED TO REPLACE THE WHITE POPULATION
00:44:15WITH IMMIGRANTS OR OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS. IBRAM KENDI IS THE AUTHOR OF NEW
00:44:19BOOK, "CHAINS OF IDEAS: THE ORIGINS OF OUR AUTHORITARIAN AGE ."
00:44:24>> GOOD AFTERNOON.
00:44:29MY NAME IS PINEAL JOSEPH. IT'S AN HONOR TO BE IN
00:44:32CONVERSATION WITH DR. IBRAM
00:44:35KENDI, A WELL-KNOWN SCHOLAR OF
00:44:39RACE, DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED
00:44:45STATES AND GLOBALLY.
00:44:49WE WILL BE IN CONVERSATION ABOUT A REALLY IMPORTANT NEW BOOK CALLED "CHAINS OF IDEAS: THE
00:44:52ORIGINS OF OUR AUTHORITARIAN AGE ."
00:45:00IBRAM, VERY GOOD TO BE IN CONVERSATION WITH YOU.
00:45:06IBRAM: GOOD TO BE IN CONVERSATION WITH YOU, DR. JOSEPH.
00:45:08PENIEL: I ENJOYED THE BOOK, A
00:45:13TRULY GLOBAL LOOK AT AUTHORITARIANISM. THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE FOR
00:45:16YOU IS -- AND YOU DEFINED IT IN
00:45:19THE BOOK -- BUT WHAT IS THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY?
00:45:26THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH
00:45:26DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT ESPECIALLY
00:45:30OVER THE LAST DECADE, ESPECIALLY
00:45:35SINCE CHARLOTTESVILLE IN 2017. YOU TALK ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH
00:45:38CONSERVATIVE NEWS COMMENTATORS,
00:45:42EVERYONE FROM FOX NEWS TO
00:45:43INDEPENDENT PODCASTERS, USE THIS
00:45:47TERM, GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, BUT YOU ALSO GIVE US THE GLOBAL
00:45:49CONTEXT.
00:45:54THERE IS A FRENCH WRITER, CAMU,
00:45:59WHO STARTS OUT AS SOMEONE ON THE
00:46:00LEFT, PROTESTED IN 1968, BUT BY THE TIME HE IS WRITING THIS
00:46:06TRAVELOGUE ABOUT FRANCE IN THE MID-1990'S, HE SEES DANGER
00:46:11EVERYWHERE, IMMIGRANTS, PEOPLE
00:46:13WHO ARE NOT FRENCH, OR AS FRENCH
00:46:17AS HE THINKS THEY SHOULD BE.
00:46:20HE REALLY HELPS ESPOUSE THIS GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
00:46:23IBRAM: HE WRITES A BOOK THAT IS
00:46:30ENTITLED "THE GREAT REPLACEMENT"
00:46:33WHICH ULTIMATELY POSITIONS IN AS
00:46:36NAMING AN IDEA, THEORY THAT HAD
00:46:40LIVED, FRANKLY, FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY.
00:46:45THEORIES AND IDEAS ARE DIFFERENT
00:46:49LIKE HUMANS. WE ARE NAMED WHEN WE ARE BORN,
00:46:52BUT IDEAS CAN REMAIN FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE THEY ARE NAMED.
00:46:56CAMU ENDS UP NAMING WHAT WE CALLED THE GREAT REPLACEMENT
00:46:59THEORY IN 2011, BUT THIS IS A
00:47:02THEORY THAT I ENDED UP DEFINING
00:47:06IN A MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE SENSE
00:47:10THAN OTHER INTELLECTUALS HAD TO FIND IT. I ENDED UP DEFINING IT AS A
00:47:14POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT
00:47:18SUGGESTS THAT THERE ARE THESE GLOBALIST ELITES WHO ARE
00:47:22ENABLING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE
00:47:26TO DISPLACE THE LIVES,
00:47:30LIVELIHOODS, EVEN POWER OF WHITE
00:47:34PEOPLE WHO THEREBY NEED
00:47:38AUTHORITARIAN PROTECTION SO WHEN
00:47:42WE HEAR THINGS LIKE BLACK AND
00:47:44BROWN IMMIGRANTS ARE INVADERS,
00:47:50WE ARE HEARING GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
00:47:52WHEN WE HEAR IDEAS LIKE, MUSLIMS
00:47:56ARE THE INTERNAL ENEMIES --
00:48:00ETERNAL ENEMIES, WE ARE HEARING GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
00:48:03EVEN WHEN WE HEAR NOTIONS LIKE DIVERSITY PROGRAMS ARE A FORM OF
00:48:06DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WHITE
00:48:08PEOPLE, THAT IS ALSO AN ELEMENT OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
00:48:15BECAUSE WHILE THE IDEA OF
00:48:17MUSLIMS AS THESE QUOTE ON QUOTE
00:48:19RADICAL ISLAMISTS WHO ARE COMING
00:48:24TO TAKE THE LIVES OF WHITE CHRISTIANS IS ABOUT TAKING
00:48:28LIVES, IT IS FRAMED AS IF QUOTE
00:48:30UNQUOTE DEI IS ABOUT TAKING,
00:48:35LET'S SAY, THE JOBS AND OPPORTUNITIES. THAT IS HOW I ENDED UP DEFINING
00:48:39IT.
00:48:41I SHOULD ALSO SAY, PENIEL, WHEN
00:48:45I STARTED OUT WITH "CHAINS OF
00:48:46IDEAS," I THOUGHT I WAS PURELY
00:48:50GOING TO WRITE ABOUT A RACIST POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY.
00:48:53WHEN I DIDN'T REALIZE IS THAT THIS THEORY HAS MUTATED.
00:48:58IT IS NO LONGER JUST A RACIST
00:49:04POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY, IT IS A SEXIST POLITICAL CONSPIRACY THEORY IN WHICH YOU HAVE THESE THEORIES CLAIMING THERE IS A WAR
00:49:08AGAINST THE MEN THAT WOMEN ARE WAGING.
00:49:13IT IS A TRANS PHOBIC CONSPIRACY
00:49:17THEORY IN WHICH OF THESE THEORISTS ARE CLAIMING THAT ALL
00:49:2010 TRAM PEOPLE THAT PLAYED COLLEGE SPORTS HAVE COMPLETELY TAKEN OVER.
00:49:27IT IS OBVIOUSLY ISLAM A PHOBIC,
00:49:30CONSPIRACY THEORY IN WHICH
00:49:34THEORISTS ARE CLAIMING THAT
00:49:35MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE ARE COMING TO
00:49:38DESTROY WHAT THEY CALL JUDEO-CHRISTIAN CIVILIZATION.
00:49:43EVEN THE CONSTRUCT OF JUDEO-CHRISTIAN, FOR ANY
00:49:47HISTORIAN, IS AN INTERESTING
00:49:49CONCEPT, ONE OF COURSE JEWS HAVE
00:49:53HISTORICALLY BEEN PERSECUTED BY CHRISTIANS. BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT HISTORY OR
00:49:57FACTS OR DATA, THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS AND PROPAGANDA.
00:50:04FRANKLY, WHEREVER THERE IS A DISADVANTAGED GROUP IN ANY
00:50:07NATION, WHETHER THEY ARE
00:50:11DISADVANTAGED BY RACE, GENDER,
00:50:12ETHNICITY, BY CLASS,
00:50:15BISEXUALITY, RELIGION, THEY ARE
00:50:17TYPICALLY BEING FRAMED AS TAKING OVER.
00:50:23AS TAKING OVER FROM THE MAJORITY GROUP OR THE PRIVILEGED GROUP.
00:50:25PENIEL: WHEN I WAS READING THIS
00:50:28BOOK, "CHAINS OF IDEAS," I
00:50:32THOUGHT IN A REALLY SIMPLE WAY, I WAS THINKING HOW COULD I TEACH
00:50:35THIS, IN TERMS OF GREAT REPLACEMENT, IT REMINDED ME OF
00:50:38LABOR HISTORY AND THE WAY IN
00:50:40WHICH THERE ARE SCABS IN LABOR HISTORY AND UNION MEMBERS.
00:50:45SCABS WHERE THE FOLKS WHO WERE NOT PART OF THE UNION WHO WERE
00:50:48BROUGHT IN TO BREAK THE UNION. THE UNION, YOU THINK OF AS THE
00:50:52GOOD FOLKS, THE SCABS, A LOT OF
00:50:56TIMES, AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHERS WHO WERE NOT PART OF THE UNION BECAUSE THE UNION
00:51:00DISCRIMINATED. THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY
00:51:03REALLY SETS UP THIS WORLD WHERE
00:51:06INDIGENOUS WHITES ARE THE UNION
00:51:11MEMBERS, THE CARD-CARRYING MEMBERS.
00:51:12THE SCABS ARE THESE HORDES OF
00:51:17PEOPLE OF COLOR.
00:51:19IT IS CONNECTED TO BREXIT, SO
00:51:23MANY DIFFERENT THINGS THAT YOU GO THROUGH IN THE BOOK. I'M EXCITED TO HAVE THE
00:51:26CONVERSATION. IBRAM: IF I COULD SAY VERY
00:51:30QUICKLY, THE BOOK IS ORGANIZED
00:51:31INTO 10 IDEAS THAT ARE ALMOST
00:51:35LIKE THE BUILDING BLOCKS FOR GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
00:51:38ONE OF THOSE IDEAS IS WHITE
00:51:42CHRISTIANS ARE INDIGENOUS TO THE NATION. [LAUGHTER]
00:51:48I JUST CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP, I'M JUST WRITING THE HISTORY.
00:51:52WHEN I SAY THAT, THESE GREAT
00:51:56REPLACEMENT THEORISTS ARE NOT
00:51:58JUST POSITIONING WHITE
00:52:02CHRISTIANS AS INDIGENOUS TO THE
00:52:03UNITED STATES, THEY ALSO
00:52:07POSITION WHITE CHRISTIANS AS
00:52:07INDIGENOUS TO CHILE, THEY
00:52:12POSITION THEM AS INDIGENOUS TO
00:52:12SOUTH AFRICA, THEY POSITION THEM
00:52:16AS INDIGENOUS TO AUSTRALIA.
00:52:22AND THE REASON WHY THAT ID IS PIVOTAL TO GREAT REPLACEMENT
00:52:25THEORY, THEN IT SAYS THAT ANY PERSON OF COLOR WHO IS IN THE
00:52:30NATION, EVEN IF THAT PERSON OF
00:52:32COLOR ARRIVED, THEIR ANCESTORS
00:52:36ARRIVED, LET'S SAY, BEFORE THE
00:52:38MAJORITY OF WHITE PEOPLE, EVEN THAT PERSON IS A REPLACEMENT.
00:52:43ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE REPLACERS.
00:52:46ALL PEOPLE WHO DO NOT ACT AS CHRISTIANITY ARE REPLACERS.
00:52:53THAT DEMO ALLOWS THEM TO ARGUE WHAT ULTIMATELY BECOMES GREAT
00:52:55REPLACEMENT THEORY.
00:53:00AGAIN, I WAS SHOCKED.
00:53:01THESE PEOPLE ARE SERIOUS, THAT WHITE CHRISTIANS ARE INDIGENOUS
00:53:05TO SOUTH AFRICA.
00:53:09LITERALLY, THERE IS A POLITICIAN'S IN THE NETHERLANDS
00:53:11RIGHT NOW WHO IS PROBABLY THE
00:53:15MOST ISLAM A PHOBIC POLITICIAN IN ALL OF EUROPE.
00:53:20HIS RIGHT HAND MAN WROTE A BOOK,
00:53:26ARGUING THAT WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS ARE FACING A GENOCIDE.
00:53:28DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR?
00:53:33AND WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS ARE FACING DISCRIMINATION, AND THAT
00:53:36THIS IS UNJUST AND OPPRESSIVE, BECAUSE WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS,
00:53:41PARTICULARLY CHRISTIANS, ARE INDIGENOUS TO THE NATION.
00:53:44PENIEL: SO THE BOOK IS A TRULY
00:53:47GLOBAL HISTORY, POLITICAL POLICY
00:53:51ANALYSIS OF THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY. WHY DID YOU CHOOSE A PARTICULAR COUNTRY?
00:53:56YOU LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES,
00:53:58CHILE, UNITED KINGDOM, GERMANY,
00:54:02HUNGARY, NETHERLANDS, FRANCE, EL
00:54:05SALVADOR, RUSSIA, AS INTERLOCKING COME INTERWEAVING
00:54:08CASE STUDIES THAT LET US EXAMINE THE GLOBAL PROBLEMS AND ISSUES AT STAKE.
00:54:13IBRAM: OK.
00:54:18THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FACTORS, I THINK, THAT WENT INTO WHY I
00:54:21CHOSE PARTICULAR COUNTRIES.
00:54:22"CHAINS OF IDEAS" IS ORGANIZED
00:54:27INTO 10 SECTIONS. EACH SECTION IS SET IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY.
00:54:31THE U.S. STORY IS PRETTY MUCH WOVEN THROUGHOUT.
00:54:37IN THINKING ABOUT WHAT COUNTRY
00:54:39TO CHOOSE, AND IN WHAT ORDER, I WANTED TO ENSURE THAT I WAS
00:54:43CHOOSING COUNTRIES WHERE THERE WAS A PARTICULAR POLITICAL
00:54:47LEADER WHO WAS PRETTY PIVOTAL IN
00:54:54THE RESURGENCE OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, EITHER
00:54:58GLOBALLY, OR IN THEIR PARTICULAR REGION.
00:55:00TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE
00:55:03COUNTRIES THAT I CHOSE WAS EL SALVADOR.
00:55:08EL SALVADOR AND PRESIDENT
00:55:10BUKELE, HIS BRAND OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, WHICH IS
00:55:15DISTINCT FROM THE BRAND OF GREAT REPLACEMENT. THAT IS OPERATING, LET'S SAY, IN
00:55:19THE GLOBAL NORTH.
00:55:22HE HAS INSPIRED OTHER LATIN AMERICAN POLITICIANS TO RUN ON THAT SAME BRAND THROUGHOUT LATIN
00:55:26AMERICA, AS AN EXAMPLE. PENIEL: WHAT MAKES IS SO
00:55:31DISTINCT -- HIS SO DISTINCT?
00:55:35IBRAM: ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH, IN
00:55:41THIS COUNTRY, CLAIMS THAT
00:55:44IMMIGRANT FROM EL SALVADOR ARE ANIMALS AND RAPISTS? ANYONE HEARD THAT?
00:55:49ULTIMATELY, THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE WHO IS SALVADOR IS
00:55:52ESSENTIALLY A CRIMINAL.
00:55:56WHAT IS ALSO BEING SAID IN THIS
00:55:58COUNTRY IS THAT THERE IS THIS
00:56:01ORGANIZED BODY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
00:56:04ESSENTIALLY FACILITATING THESE
00:56:07CRIMINALS BEING PUSHED OUT OF
00:56:11PRISONS AND ESSENTIALLY SENT TO THE UNITED STATES AND INVADING.
00:56:14ANYONE HEARD THAT, AS WELL?
00:56:18SO LET'S SAY THAT IS THE POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES.
00:56:22LET'S SAY, IF YOU WERE A
00:56:23POLITICIAN IN EL SALVADOR, THEY
00:56:26ARE CLAIMING THAT SALVADOR
00:56:31EANS ARE CRIMINALS. YOU CAN USE THAT TOO.
00:56:36THERE IS THIS HUGE GANG PROBLEM IN EL SALVADOR.
00:56:42THESE PEOPLE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL, AND THEY ARE COMING TO
00:56:45TAKE OVER AND DESTROY THE GOOD PEOPLE.
00:56:50AND IN ORDER FOR US TO PROTECT YOU FROM THESE PEOPLE GANG
00:56:56HORDES, I NEED TO ESSENTIALLY CREATE THE LARGEST PRISON SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
00:57:01I NEED TO START ROUNDING UP PEOPLE BY THE HUNDREDS OF
00:57:06THOUSANDS AND THROWING THEM IN PRISONS. I NEED TO DO AWAY WITH DEMOCRACY.
00:57:11I NEED TO DO AWAY WITH CIVIL
00:57:13LIBERTIES IN THE NAME OF PROTECTING THE VERY PEOPLE THAT I'M CLAIMING.
00:57:17IN OUR COUNTRY, THE IMMIGRANT IS
00:57:22POSITIONED, OR THE MUSLIM, OR THE BLACK PERSON IS POSITIONED
00:57:26AS THE REPLACER IN WHICH YOU
00:57:29NEED AN AUTHORITARIAN TO PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST.
00:57:32IN EL SALVADOR, IT IS THE GANGS, THE CRIMINALS.
00:57:36WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE, FOR SEVERAL DECADES, IN THE UNITED
00:57:40STATES, IT INDEED WAS THE
00:57:42CRIMINAL, THAT PARTICULAR
00:57:45POLITICAL PARTIES USED TO GALVANIZE SUPPORT FOR THEIR
00:57:48PROGRESSIVE POLICIES --
00:57:51REGRESSIVE POLICIES. PENIEL: THANK YOU.
00:57:57HOW HAS IMMIGRATION, RACIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLES, INEQUALITY
00:58:01HELPED TO RATCHET UP THE KIND OF RIGHT WING POPULISM THAT WE HAVE
00:58:05WITNESSED IN THE UNITED STATES AND GLOBALLY?
00:58:07WHEN I READ THIS, IMMIGRATION IS
00:58:11REALLY A THROUGH LINE. SOME PEOPLE MAY THINK THE
00:58:15XENOPHOBIA OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION OR EVEN THE MAGA
00:58:20MOVEMENT IS BRAND-NEW, BUT AS YOU SHOW IN THIS BOOK, THERE IS
00:58:22A REAL THROUGH LINE OF THIS KIND
00:58:24OF XENOPHOBIA, AND ALSO THIS
00:58:29KIND OF BACKLASH AGAINST RACIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLES.
00:58:32NOT JUST RACIAL JUSTICE STRUGGLES IN THE UNITED STATES BUT GLOBALLY.
00:58:35IBRAM: TO GIVE ONE EXAMPLE, I
00:58:43ROOT THE YEAR OF THIS RESURGENCE OF GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY
00:58:46ROUGHLY AROUND 2008 AND 2011.
00:58:52WE KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE WAS A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF PEOPLE WHO
00:58:56CLAIMED THAT, BECAUSE OBAMA WAS
00:58:59ELECTED PRESIDENT, THAT MEANT
00:59:02THIS NATION WAS A POST-RACIAL SOCIETY. ANYONE REMEMBER THAT?
00:59:07THERE WAS ANOTHER IDEA THAT WAS
00:59:08PUT FORTH DURING THAT TIME THAT DID NOT NECESSARILY MAKE THE
00:59:13MAINSTREAM, BUT STARTED TO
00:59:15ORGANIZE AND GALVANIZE FOLKS,
00:59:17AND THAT WAS THE IDEA THAT THE
00:59:20ELECTION OF A BLACK PRESIDENT REPRESENTED THAT BLACK PEOPLE
00:59:23HAD TAKEN OVER THE NATION, AND WE ARE NOW GOING TO USE THE
00:59:27POWER TO HARM WHAT PEOPLE.
00:59:30THAT WAS AN IDEA THAT WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS STARTED
00:59:34CIRCULATING AT THAT TIME. AND THAT IS A GREAT REPLACEMENT
00:59:38THEORY.
00:59:43SO, THE RACIAL JUSTICE, THE MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRATIC EFFORTS
00:59:47THAT HELPED TO ELECT THIS
00:59:51NATION'S FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT
00:59:55WAS REFRAMED AS FUNDAMENTALLY A MOVEMENT AGAINST WHITE PEOPLE.
00:59:58SIMILARLY, IN 2011, THERE WAS A
01:00:03MAN WHO DECIDED THAT THIS
01:00:09LIBERAL PARTY IN NORWAY WAS
01:00:12ENABLING MUSLIMS TO TAKE OVER
01:00:18NORWAY AND ALL OF EUROPE. HE DECIDED THAT HE WAS GOING TO
01:00:22STOP THIS QUOTE ON QUOTE INVASION.
01:00:29HE WROTE A 1300-WORD MANIFESTO,
01:00:35MOST OF WHICH WAS LIFTED FROM OTHER SOURCES.
01:00:39IN THIS MANIFESTO, HE DESCRIBED
01:00:42WHAT HE CALLED CULTURAL MARXISM,
01:00:47WHICH OF COURSE, THERE IS A SENATOR FROM THIS STATE WHO WROTE A BOOK ON CULTURAL MARXISM.
01:00:52ANYBODY KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT?
01:00:54HE DESCRIBED CULTURAL MARXISM AS FACILITATING THE GREAT
01:00:58REPLACEMENT. HE ARGUED THAT CULTURAL MARXISM
01:01:03IS EMBLEMATIC IN, LET'S SAY, FEMINIST EFFORTS AT GENDER
01:01:07EQUALITY.
01:01:09HE ARGUED THAT CULTURAL MARXISM
01:01:12IS EMBLEMATIC IN ANTIRACISM, WHICH INDEED IS ANTIWHITE.
01:01:17THIS IS HIM WRITING IT IN 2011. THIS PERSON ENDED UP GOING TO
01:01:22OSLO, NORWAY, AND KILLING 77
01:01:26PEOPLE. THIS IS THE LARGEST MASS
01:01:30SHOOTING THAT I CHRONICLED IN "CHAINS OF IDEAS."
01:01:35AND THAT HAPPENED IN 2011.
01:01:38AGAIN, IN HIS MANIFESTO, HE
01:01:40IMAGINED THAT EFFORTS TOWARD
01:01:43RACIAL AND GENDER EQUITY WERE
01:01:45ACTUALLY EFFORTS TO HARM WHITE PEOPLE AND MEN.
01:01:49THAT HAS BEEN A THROUGH LINE THROUGHOUT THIS IDEOLOGICAL
01:01:53MOVEMENT. PENIEL: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
01:01:59VIOLENCE, BECAUSE READING THIS BOOK -- AND THIS WAS REALLY SAD
01:02:04-- REMINDED ME OF THE NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SHOOTINGS AND MASS
01:02:09KILLINGS THAT WERE ANTI-BLACK,
01:02:12ANTISEMITIC, ISLAMOPHOBIA,
01:02:16TRANS-PHOBIC, JUST A NUMBER OF KILLINGS THAT HAPPENED GLOBALLY.
01:02:21CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE THROUGH
01:02:26LINE, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN
01:02:27THOSE KILLINGS, AND NOT JUST
01:02:30GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, BUT
01:02:33ALSO AUTHORITARIANISM, INEQUALITY GLOBALLY, THESE
01:02:36SCAPEGOATS, AND WAS THERE ANYTHING NEW THAT YOU DISCOVERED
01:02:39WHERE YOU READ THE HEADLINES AND THEN YOU DID THE RESEARCH, THE
01:02:41CONNECTION BETWEEN THIS?
01:02:45YOU TALK ABOUT DYLAN RUTH, CHARLSTON, BUFFALO KILLINGS.
01:02:49THERE ARE SO MANY THAT OCCURRED,
01:02:52IT IS REALLY ESTABLISH -- ASTONISHING WHEN YOU READ IT.
01:02:54THE BOOK IS 500 PAGES. IT IS VERY DETAILED.
01:02:59BUT THERE WERE SOME THAT I HAD FORGOTTEN OR HAD BLOTTED OUT OF MY MEMORY.
01:03:06IT IS REALLY HEAVY TO CARRY THIS .
01:03:10WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THROUGH
01:03:10LINES THAT, NOW PIECING THIS TO
01:03:17GET THAT THROUGH ALL OF YOUR RESEARCH, INSTEAD OF READING THESE AS SEPARATE INCIDENCES?
01:03:21IBRAM: WHEN I CONNECTED ALL OF
01:03:23THESE DIFFERENT SHOOTINGS, THE
01:03:27FIRST FINDING WAS THAT LITERALLY
01:03:29EVERY GROUP OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
01:03:32SUBJECTED TO A MASS SHOOTING.
01:03:39I JUST MENTIONED THAT MASS SHOOTING IN NORWAY.
01:03:43THOSE 77 PEOPLE WERE ALMOST ALL WHITE. OF COURSE, WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH
01:03:47THE MASS SHOOTING IN BUFFALO IN WHICH THOSE VICTIMS WERE BLACK.
01:03:51WE ARE FAMILIAR CERTAINLY WITH THE SHOOTING HERE IN TEXAS IN EL
01:03:56PASO IN WHICH THOSE VICTIMS WERE LATINO.
01:04:00WE ARE FAMILIAR HOPEFULLY WITH THE SHOOTING IN THE ATLANTA AREA.
01:04:03THOSE VICTIMS WERE ASIAN. WE SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE
01:04:08SHOOTING IN CHRISTCHURCH, NEW
01:04:11ZEALAND IN WHICH 51 MUSLIMS WERE KILLED.
01:04:19TO ME, I THINK THAT IS ONE OF
01:04:21THE THINGS, LITERALLY, IT
01:04:24ALLOWED ME TO
01:04:31GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY IS THE MOST DANGEROUS POLITICAL THEORY
01:04:34OF OUR TIME. IT LITERALLY JUSTIFYING THE
01:04:39KILLING OF US ALL.
01:04:43THE WAY THAT IS OPERATING -- I
01:04:46DID NOT MENTION THE JEWISH
01:04:50AMERICANS WHO WERE KILLED IN PITTSBURGH.
01:04:51THE SHOOTER OF THAT SYNAGOGUE
01:04:56BELIEVED JEWISH AMERICANS WERE FACILITATING THE GREAT REPLACEMENT.
01:05:00THE CONSTRUCT OF A GLOBALIST
01:05:03DELETE CONNECTS DIRECTLY TO THE
01:05:05CONSTRUCT OF INTERNATIONAL JEWE RY.
01:05:12NAZI FIGURES WERE THIS GLOBAL BODY THAT WAS RULING THE WORLD
01:05:16AND ALLOWING FOR THE DISPLACEMENT OF AREA GERMANS --
01:05:20ARRYAN GERMANS. IT HAS JUSTIFIED GENOCIDE.
01:05:24IT HAS JUSTIFIED WARS.
01:05:28ANOTHER THROUGH LINE IS THE
01:05:29THEORY ITSELF THAT TYPICALLY
01:05:34THESE SHOOTERS EXPRESS IN THEIR MANIFESTOES IS WHAT I CALL IN
01:05:38THE BOOK WHITE GENOCIDE.
01:05:42THIS IS A THEORY THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE FACING ANNIHILATION.
01:05:47THIS IS A VERY POPULAR AND HEAVILY PROMOTED THEORY.
01:05:52IT IS A FEAR THAT EVEN ELON MUSK PUSHES REGULARLY ON HIS X
01:05:56ACCOUNT. LET'S SAY YOU ARE A YOUNG WHITE MALE.
01:06:01YOU HAVE INTERNALIZED THE IDEA THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE FACING A
01:06:06GENOCIDE, FACING EXTINCTION.
01:06:13YOU THEN HEAR THESE POLITICIANS SAY WE ARE GOING TO PROTECT WHITE PEOPLE.
01:06:17YOU KNOW WHAT? I DON'T BELIEVE IT.
01:06:21THE GREAT REPLACEMENT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN. YOU DECIDE IN ORDER FOR WHITE
01:06:24PEOPLE TO GET PROTECTED, WE NEED TO SPARK A RACE WAR.
01:06:29TO SPARK A RACE WAR, I NEED TO GO TO WAR MYSELF.
01:06:32THAT IS WHITE IN THIS TEXT I
01:06:35DESCRIBE THESE PEOPLE AS GREAT REPLACEMENT SOLDIERS.
01:06:39THEY IMAGINE THEMSELVES AS SOLDIERS FOR THE WHITE RACE.
01:06:42WHAT IS STRIKING IS ALMOST
01:06:47ALWAYS THEY CLAIM THEY ARE DEFENDERS OF THE WHITE RACE AND
01:06:50ALMOST ALL THE SHOOTERS BEFORE OR AFTER ENGAGING IN MASS
01:06:54SHOOTINGS KILLED THEIR WHITE WIFE OR WHITE MOTHER.
01:06:57PENIEL: YOU LOOK AT PEOPLE LIKE
01:07:00KYLE RITTENHOUSE AND OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN MASS
01:07:04SHOOTINGS.
01:07:06HAVE BEEN FOUND NOT GUILTY IN
01:07:12TERMS OF THE U.S. JURISPRUDENCE.
01:07:14YOU MENTIONED NAZIS.
01:07:18THIS WAS A QUESTION I WAS WINNING TO ASK YOU.
01:07:24THROUGHOUT "CHAIN OF IDEAS" YOU EXAMINE HOW THE NATIONAL
01:07:27SOCIALIST PARTY AND THE IDEAS
01:07:30COMING OUT OF THE 1930'S HAVE
01:07:37CONTINUED. WE ARE THINKING ABOUT GENOCIDE
01:07:42OF KILLING 6 MILLION JEWS, 5 MILLION OTHERS.
01:07:46YOU GIVE IT POTENTIAL
01:07:53BIGGER TOTAL OF DEATH FROM THE NAZI TOTALITARIAN AND ANTI-SEMITISM.
01:07:58YOU THREW OUT THAT THEY
01:08:05CIRCULATE LONG AFTER NAZI-ISM WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN DEFEATED, INCLUDING IN CHILE.
01:08:10YOU GET DEEP INTO IT THERE..
01:08:13GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF THIS.
01:08:16WHY IS THIS THE CASE?
01:08:19HOW ARE THESE WHAT YOU CALL
01:08:23NEO-NAZI IDEAS BECOMING
01:08:25MAINSTREAM IN GLOBAL POLITICAL CULTURE?
01:08:29IBRAM: IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND FIRST THE
01:08:33ORGANIZATIONAL OR LITERALLY THE
01:08:40PERSONAL CONNECTION.
01:08:44WHAT I MEAN BY THE ORGANIZATIONAL CONNECTION, FOR
01:08:48INSTANCE, RIGHT NOW THE MOST
01:08:51POPULAR POLITICAL PARTY IN
01:08:53AUSTRIA WAS FOUNDED BY FORMER NAZIS.
01:08:58IF YOU MOVE DOWN TO ITALY, THE
01:09:00LEADER OF ITALY IS GIORGIA MELONI.
01:09:05HER PARTY IS THE BROTHERS OF ITALY.
01:09:06THAT PARTY WAS FOUNDED INITIALLY
01:09:11-- IT WAS CALLED THE ITALIAN SOCIAL MOVEMENT.
01:09:14IT WAS FOUNDED IN 1950.
01:09:18IT WAS A PLAY ON WORDS TO WHAT WAS CALLED THE ITALIAN SOCIAL REPUBLIC.
01:09:23THE ITALIAN SOCIAL REPUBLIC WAS
01:09:24THE NAME OF MUSSOLINI'S NORTHERN
01:09:29ITALIAN STATE THAT WAS PROPPED
01:09:31UP BY NAZIS AT THE END OF WORLD WAR II.
01:09:37YOU MOVE OVER -- YOU MENTIONED CHILE.
01:09:42THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF CHILE,
01:09:45HIS FATHER WAS A CARD-CARRYING
01:09:51MEMBER OF THE NAZI PARTY.
01:09:54JUST TO GIVE SOME CONTEXT, ONLY
01:09:5710% OF GERMANS WERE CARD-CARRYING MEMBERS OF THE NAZI PARTY.
01:10:01ONE OF THOSE WAS THE CURRENT -- THE FATHER OF THE CURRENT PRESIDENT.
01:10:05AFTER THE WAR, MANY NAZI OFFICIALS FLED GERMANY.
01:10:10MANY OF THOSE NAZI OFFICIALS FLED TO WHAT IS CALLED THE SOUTHERN COMB.
01:10:15BRAZIL, ARGENTINA, CHILE. ONE OF THOSE WAS MICHAEL CAST.
01:10:19PENIEL: WHY DID THEY GO THERE?
01:10:22IBRAM: THEY WERE FACING THE NUREMBERG TRIALS.
01:10:25PENIEL: BUT WHY DID THEY PICK THAT PART OF THE WORLD?
01:10:29IBRAM: THERE WAS ALREADY A
01:10:33SIZABLE GERMAN POPULATION IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD. THE LEADERS IN THOSE COUNTRIES
01:10:36WERE PARTIAL TO THE NAZI PARTY.
01:10:39THEY FLED THEIR, REESTABLISH THEMSELVES.
01:10:43MANY CHANGED THEIR NAMES.
01:10:45THEN THEY SUPPORTED LATIN AMERICAN DICTATORS.
01:10:50FOR INSTANCE, JOSE ANTONIO
01:10:54COST'S FATHER WAS A SUPPORTER OF
01:10:56A GUST OF PINOCHET -- AUGU
01:11:03STO PINOCHET.
01:11:06OTHER LEADERS RIGHT NOW WHO ARE EXPOSING GREAT REPLACEMENT
01:11:09THEORY IN LATIN AMERICA LITERALLY ARE THE DAUGHTERS AND
01:11:14SONS OF FORMER LATIN AMERICAN DICTATORS.
01:11:18THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING.
01:11:22THAT IS THE ORGANIZATIONAL CONNECTION THAT I TRIED TO MAP.
01:11:27THEN THERE IS THE IDEOLOGICAL CONNECTION.
01:11:31EARLIER I TALKED ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF GREAT REPLACEMENT
01:11:33THEORY AS THE FIRST NOTION OF THE GLOBALIST ELITES.
01:11:39THAT IS A RENOVATION OF THE TERM INTERNATIONAL JEWERY.
01:11:43THE SECOND, PEOPLES OF COLOR ARE REPLACERS.
01:11:48THAT IS A RENOVATION OF JEWS.
01:11:51THE THIRD CONCEPT, THAT WHITE
01:11:56PEOPLE ARE BEING REPLACED.
01:11:57WHITE PEOPLE IS THE RENOVATION
01:12:01OF THE ARIAN.
01:12:04THE LAST IDEA OF -- THOSE WHITE
01:12:06PEOPLE -- ARIANS BEING REPLACED
01:12:10NEED AUTHORITARIAN PROTECTION.
01:12:12THAT WAS HITLER'S OFFER TO
01:12:15GERMAN CITIZENS.
01:12:17I WILL PROTECT YOU FROM THESE
01:12:20JEWS WHO ARE COMING TO HARM YOU OR HAVE TAKEN OVER THE WORLD.
01:12:25I AM INVADING POLAND. I AM INVADING RUSSIA.
01:12:29I AM INVADING CZECHOSLOVAKIA BECAUSE ETHNIC GERMANS ARE BEING
01:12:33OPPRESSED. THAT IS HOW HE JUSTIFIED WORLD WAR II.
01:12:36NOW YOU HAVE GREAT REPLACEMENT
01:12:39POLITICIANS ALL OVER THE WORLD
01:12:43CLAIMING INDIAN HINDUS ARE BEING
01:12:50REPLACED APPARENTLY BY MUSLIMS IN INDIA.
01:12:53IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAVE THIS PRESIDENT CLAIMING WHITE
01:12:58MEN ARE BEING DISPLACED BY WOMEN AND PEOPLES OF COLOR.
01:13:03ON AND ON ALL OVER THE WORLD.
01:13:05IT IS A RENOVATION OF NAZI
01:13:09THEORY. IN THE BOOK I ARGUE GREAT
01:13:13REPLACEMENT THEORY IS A NEO-NAZI IDEA, BOTH FROM AN
01:13:16ORGANIZATIONAL STANDPOINT AND AN IDEOLOGICAL STANDPOINT.
01:13:19PENIEL: I WANT TO BRING US TO THE UNITED STATES.
01:13:24YOU TALK ABOUT GREAT REPLACEMENT PARTIES. CAN I GET ANOTHER EXAMPLE?
01:13:28IBRAM: SORRY. I'M SORT OF ON A ROLL. [LAUGHTER]
01:13:33YOU MIND IF I GIVE SOMETHING
01:13:35AWAY IN THE BOOK THAT WAS FASCINATING TO ME WHEN I DISCOVERED THIS?
01:13:39YOU MENTIONED AT THE ONSET OF
01:13:41OUR TALK HOW RENAUD CAMU
01:13:50TRAVELS TO SOUTHERN FRANCE IN
01:13:52THE LATE 1990'S, IMAGINES HE IS
01:13:57SEEING NORTH AFRICAN MUSLIMS COMING IN TAKING OVER. THAT THEY BY REPRESENTED THE
01:14:00GREAT REPLACEMENT.
01:14:03HE SORT OF CHRONICLES THAT IN
01:14:04ONE OF HIS -- IN THE BOOK CALLED "THE GREAT REPLACEMENT."
01:14:09THIS WAS THE PIVOTAL MOMENT IN WHICH HE KNEW THERE WAS A PROBLEM.
01:14:14WELL, IF YOU HAVE NOT READ MEIN KAMPF, AND YOU PROBABLY DON'T
01:14:18WANT TO READ IT, HITLER HAS A STRIKINGLY SIMILAR STORY IN
01:14:22WHICH HE IS IN -- IN WHICH HE
01:14:27POSITIONS HIMSELF AS BEING IN
01:14:31CENTRAL EUROPE AND SEEING JEWS
01:14:37AS COMING IN TAKING OVER. THAT BECOMING THE MOMENT IN
01:14:40WHICH HE REALIZES THAT THERE IS THIS REPLACEMENT THAT IS
01:14:45HAPPENING THAT HE NEEDS TO DEFEND ARIANS FROM.
01:14:50WHAT IS STRIKING HE
01:14:55STUDIED HITLER.
01:15:01HE ARGUES BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ABLE TO USE NAZI TERMINOLOGY --
01:15:05WHEN I SAY WE, LET'S SAY
01:15:07EUROPEANS, HE ARGUES THAT EUROPE IS NOW OPEN SEASON.
01:15:16WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE NAZI TERMS, NOT BECAUSE WE ARE NAZIS
01:15:19AND ANTI-SEMITIC, BUT THEY MEANT SOMETHING HERE IN WHICH YOU
01:15:23SHOULD BE KEEPING OUT THE INTERNAL ENEMIES.
01:15:25HE GOES ON TO ARGUE, BUT I'M NOT ANTI-SEMITIC.
01:15:28I'M NOT A NAZI.
01:15:30I JUST WANT TO USE THEIR TERMS AND IDEAS, BUT I'M NOT A NAZI. [LAUGHTER]
01:15:36PENIEL: WITH THE TIME WE HAVE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE UNITED
01:15:41STATES AND THE WAY IN WHICH THESE IDEAS ARE SWIRLING HERE.
01:15:47YOU TALK ABOUT GREAT REPLACEMENT FINANCIERS, GREAT REPLACEMENT
01:15:51PARTIES, GREAT REPLACEMENT POLITICIANS.
01:15:54I WANT TO LOOK AT THE U.S.
01:15:57CONTEXT, ESPECIALLY ONE OF THE
01:16:01THINGS THAT WAS INTERESTING IN READING THE BOOK IS THE WAY IN
01:16:03WHICH YOU SITUATE DONALD TRUMP IN THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.
01:16:09-- AND OF THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT -- AND THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.
01:16:14YOU SEE THE WAY THE PIECES FIT.
01:16:18THE FACT THAT TRUMP WAS ABLE TO BECOME A POLITICAL CANDIDATE AND
01:16:21REALLY MAKE HIS BONES NOT JUST OFF THE CELEBRITY OF THE
01:16:24APPRENTICE BUT THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.
01:16:29THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT IS ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED TO THE
01:16:33GREAT REPLACEMENT MOVEMENT -- THEORY AND THE SENSE THAT THIS
01:16:36IDEA THAT OBAMA WAS NOT REALLY AN AMERICAN.
01:16:39THE WAY YOU COULD DO THAT WAS REALLY BECAUSE OF HIS BLACKNESS.
01:16:45THE INDIGENOUS AMERICANS -- THEY ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT INDIGENOUS NATIVE AMERICANS.
01:16:50THEY ARE MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT INDIGENOUS AMERICANS WERE WHITE CHRISTIANS.
01:16:54IT'S INTERESTING HOW TRUMP BECOMES THIS MAJOR FIGURE WITH
01:16:58THAT.
01:16:59I WANT YOU TO TALK ABOUT THE
01:17:03CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE GREAT REPLACEMENT POLITICAL PARTIES
01:17:06AND FINANCIERS AND POLITICIANS. YOU GET INTO TRUMP.
01:17:10YOU ALSO GET INTO PROJECT 2025
01:17:15AND A VERY INTERESTING WAY -- IN
01:17:19A VERY INTERESTING WAY. STEPHEN MILLER, BANNON, ALL
01:17:23THESE CHARACTERS WHO ARE CIRCULATING WITHIN A GLOBAL CONTEXT.
01:17:27THAT IS WHAT I APPRECIATED ABOUT THE BOOK.
01:17:29THEY ARE NOT -- AT TIMES THEY
01:17:34ARE INNOVATORS BUT AT TIMES THEY
01:17:38ARE AMPLIFYING THE INNOVATION OF PEOPLE ELSEWHERE. YOU SHOW THAT.
01:17:42BECAUSE OF OUR AMERICAN BIAS WE
01:17:43SAY THESE FOLKS, THEY CREATED ALL OF IT.
01:17:48EVEN THOUGH AMERICAN IDEAS
01:17:50CERTAINLY CIRCULATE GLOBALLY AND EVEN CIRCULATE IN THE NAZI
01:17:54GERMANY, AT TIMES AMERICANS GET
01:17:56THESE IDEAS FROM OTHER PLACES AS WELL.
01:18:01CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT AND THE WAY IN WHICH -- AND WHY THE
01:18:05UNITED STATES WAS SO VULNERABLE TO THIS?
01:18:07ONE OF THE FINAL PARTS THAT YOU
01:18:10SAY HERE IS THE WAY IN WHICH
01:18:12GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY IS INTERESTING.
01:18:15IT CAN INCLUDE PEOPLE OF COLOR. IT CAN INCLUDE PEOPLE OF COLOR AS ADVOCATES OF IT.
01:18:21IT IS A VERY COMPLICATED -- JUST BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHO WE MIGHT ALWAYS SUSPECT.
01:18:26WHY WERE WE SO VULNERABLE TO
01:18:28THIS AND STILL ARE OF THIS
01:18:32AUTHORITARIANISM?
01:18:34ESPECIALLY TRUMP 2.0 AND PROJECT
01:18:382025 HAS BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN THE FIRST TERM, EVEN THOUGH
01:18:41IT FEATURES CHARLOTTESVILLE AND FEATURES HEINOUS THINGS.
01:18:47IBRAM: I THINK FIRST AND
01:18:52FOREMOST -- I THINK THAT WAS TO
01:18:58BE ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING ASPECTS OF RESEARCHING AND
01:19:02WRITING "CHAIN OF IDEAS." LEARNING HOW SO MANY TALKING
01:19:06POINTS AND EVEN TERMS THAT WE
01:19:10KNOW OF IN THE UNITED STATES
01:19:13WERE FIRST TESTED IN POPULAR ART -- AND POPULAR AS IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
01:19:17EVEN SITUATIONS HAPPEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES. IN ITALY, I MENTIONED GIORGIA
01:19:21MELONI. THERE WAS AN INCIDENT IN A
01:19:24POLITICAL CAMPAIGN WHERE HER
01:19:28PARTY CIRCULATED THIS VIDEO THAT
01:19:33APPEARED TO SHOW THIS AFRICAN
01:19:36MIGRANT COOKING CATS ON A PUBLIC STREET.
01:19:40THEY USED THAT IN A VERY SIMILAR
01:19:44WAY, THE FALSE ALLEGATION OF
01:19:50HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS "COOKING CATS."
01:19:52I THINK -- WE ARE NOT FULLY
01:19:55AWARE OF HOW MUCH OUR
01:20:00POLITICIANS ARE LITERALLY USING
01:20:05THE MOST EFFECTIVE PROPAGANDA TACTICS OF OTHER AUTHORITARIANS AROUND THE WORLD.
01:20:11SECONDLY, WITH THE FINANCIERS,
01:20:15ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES, THE
01:20:19WEALTHIEST PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY ARE TYPICALLY FINANCING THE
01:20:23POLITICIANS AND THE POLITICAL PARTIES WHO ARE PUSHING GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.
01:20:28WHY WOULD A WEALTHY PERSON WHO
01:20:32IS ADVOCATING FOR POLICIES OR
01:20:36PUSHING A NEW TECHNOLOGY LIKE
01:20:39AI, OR USING NEW EXPLOITATIVE
01:20:46TACTICS ON LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME WHITE MEN, WHY WOULD THEY WANT
01:20:50THAT WHITE MAN WHO THEY ARE ROBBING BLIND TO THINK THEY ARE
01:20:53BEING ROBBED BY BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE?
01:20:56I THINK EVERYBODY CAN FIGURE THAT OUT.
01:20:58THAT IS HOW WEALTHY PEOPLE HAVE
01:21:01RECOGNIZED THE UTILITY OF GREAT
01:21:04REPLACEMENT THEORY. NOT ONLY ARE THEY ABLE TO
01:21:08CONVINCE THE PEOPLE -- THE
01:21:10VICTIMS OF THEIR ROBBERIES THAT THEY ARE BEING ROBBED BY OTHERS,
01:21:15THEY ARE ALSO ABLE TO CONVINCE THE VICTIMS OF THEIR ROBBERIES
01:21:18THAT THEY SHOULD LOOK TO THEM TO PROTECT THEM.
01:21:22CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT? YOU ARE ROBBING SOMEBODY BLIND
01:21:26AND TRYING -- GETTING THEM TO BELIEVE YOU ARE THE BEST PROTECTOR.
01:21:32THAT IS WHY IT HAS BEEN SO EFFECTIVE AND THAT IS WHY BILLIONAIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD
01:21:36ARE PUSHING THIS GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY. A FINAL THING I WILL SAY ABOUT
01:21:40THIS, I HAVE BEEN STRUCK BY THE
01:21:45NUMBER OF AMERICANS WHO DO NOT
01:21:49BELIEVE THAT TRUMP COULD RUN FOR ANOTHER TERM.
01:21:54THE REASON WHY -- I WOULD HAVE
01:21:57BEEN IN THE CAMP OF THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
01:22:00IT IS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT HE CAN ONLY RUN TWO TERMS.
01:22:05BUT THEN HE HAS BEEN STUDYING RUSSIA. HE HAS BEEN STUDYING EL SALVADOR.
01:22:09IN BOTH OF THOSE COUNTRIES IT WAS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT THE
01:22:13SITTING PRESIDENTS COULD NOT RUN
01:22:16FOR ANOTHER TERM, WHETHER PUTIN
01:22:19OR BIKELE.
01:22:25THEY BASICALLY IGNORED WHAT WAS IN THE CONSTITUTION.
01:22:28FOR US TO NOT THINK THAT THE
01:22:30SAME THING COULD NOT HAPPEN HERE
01:22:33WITH THIS CONGRESS AND WITH THIS
01:22:37SUPREME COURT, AS FICKLE AND
01:22:42ERRATIC AND INCOMPETENT AS THEY ARE, IS SOMETHING THAT IS
01:22:46SURPRISING TO ME. PENIEL: WELL, THANK YOU.
01:22:52MY LAST QUESTION AND THEN WE WILL OPEN IT UP.
01:22:53YOU TALK ABOUT HOPE AND WHAT YOU
01:23:00-- HOW YOU THINK THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES
01:23:03WOULD YOU KEEP IT GLOBAL MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF THIS
01:23:08PERIOD OF AUTHORITARIANISM.
01:23:11THAT IS WHAT I WANT YOU TO LEAVE US WITH.
01:23:15WHAT ARE SOME DIRECTIONS THAT YOU ARE SEEING THAT ARE
01:23:18POSITIVE, PRO-DEMOCRACY IN TERMS
01:23:24OF THE RESISTANCE TO THIS KIND OF AUTHORITARIANISM?
01:23:27PEOPLE OR PARTIES OR GROUPS, INCLUDING EVERYTHING FROM SOCIAL
01:23:30MEDIA -- THERE'S A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE HERE.
01:23:35ACTIVISTS, INTELLECTUALS, SCHOLARS, ORDINARY PEOPLE WHO
01:23:38ARE ARTICULATING NOT ONLY A
01:23:44CRITIQUE OF THIS AUTHORITARIANISM BUT ARTICULATING AN ASPIRATIONAL NEW
01:23:49WORLD THAT CAN BE CREATED WHERE
01:23:53THESE INSTITUTIONS RECOGNIZE HUMAN DIGNITY, AND YOU USE THAT
01:23:57WORD, A