Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00This raises the suspicion whether the three-member group of citizens from Belarus, India
00:00:03and Kazakhstan are legally passing
00:00:06through the country.
00:00:13Okay, how long you plan to stay there? Maybe
00:00:17tomorrow come back, tomorrow come back. The illegal migration that intensified
00:00:20this summer made Estonian authorities react more actively,
00:00:24and now those entering Estonia
00:00:27by land are being checked more carefully.
00:00:30Only here at the port, how did you
00:00:32meet? This is my one company, your
00:00:36company, one, one company.
00:00:40One company, okay, well, our job is actually to
00:00:43screen out from
00:00:46this crowd the people who would need
00:00:50more attention in terms of control. Migrants who
00:00:53have come, maybe they don't feel
00:00:57so comfortable here, and therefore they behave
00:01:00a little bit in a way that is not like a typical
00:01:03tourist. Well,
00:01:06we generally recognize it, although
00:01:09identification takes time, and the Finnish border guard, who is assisting
00:01:12in Estonia, must also be involved. An unusual trio going by boat
00:01:16on a ship.
00:01:21I haven't seen such an interesting combination, what kind of Belarusian,
00:01:24Kazakh and Indian, I have never seen such a combination.
00:01:28The work continues
00:01:30with those who board the ship on foot. At
00:01:33the port.
00:01:37Based on appearance, nervousness, and the language spoken, it is assessed
00:01:40who needs checking and who does not. In a couple of months,
00:01:44nearly 20 illegal immigrants have been caught at the port,
00:01:48but extreme situations do not come with a warning. It depends
00:01:51on the situation, it depends, it can happen all of a sudden
00:01:54and then it can happen
00:01:58that actors start playing.
00:02:00That they feel bad and call an ambulance, as soon as
00:02:04you go to the emergency room with them, then everything is
00:02:07fine. During the summer, several illegal immigrants were caught based
00:02:11on tips from people, for example, when a large group was reported in Nõmme
00:02:15or hideouts were seen in the tunnel during an evening bike ride.
00:02:18This weekend there was such a case in
00:02:21Tallinn, where in fact, these
00:02:25distressed migrants themselves turned to
00:02:29a city resident for help, asking that,
00:02:32essentially, they be given help. One thing is that Estonia strengthened
00:02:36its border control, but another is that we went to the epicenter of illegal
00:02:39migration on the Belarus-Latvia border.
00:02:42That this Latvia-Belarus border today is
00:02:46very active and is active precisely
00:02:49because on the Belarusian side there are many
00:02:53people who want to enter the European
00:02:56Union. Rain Järv led the 11th rotation for Estonia
00:03:00in Latvia in mid-August. If in the news we have seen how tunnels
00:03:03have even been dug at the border, then according to Järv, when walking
00:03:07at the border, on the other side, rustling in the bushes can be seen in
00:03:10the literal sense. Visually,
00:03:12they are visible, there is not one, there are significantly
00:03:16more. If we can say it with a bit of humor, then
00:03:19it's a cat-and-mouse game, that
00:03:22they try to find these
00:03:26weak spots where
00:03:28it is possible to cross the border illegally,
00:03:32there are different mechanisms, they try with self-made
00:03:35ladders, they cover razor wire,
00:03:38they try to climb over, they try to come through the fence
00:03:42under the fence, that is,
00:03:45all possible ways. Although there were no very big
00:03:49escalations during Rain Järve's time at the border,
00:03:52what is happening there is a conscious activity of the Belarusian state,
00:03:56and therefore those moving to Europe can also be considered victims of migration
00:04:00pressure, and we don't really know with what promises,
00:04:04with what steps they have reached
00:04:07that Latvian forest, that is, what
00:04:10exactly has been told to them, what has been promised,
00:04:13right? Well, they certainly
00:04:17reach a situation at the border where they are actually
00:04:21in a relatively forced position, that
00:04:24if a person can move freely in the forest and a fence
00:04:27appears, a forced situation arises, right? Well, in a very
00:04:31generalized way, one could say that they are victims,
00:04:33tied his wife to a radiator in Haapsalu, poured right, in a sense, what to say to those people who say,
00:04:36well, why are we going to Latvia to check the Belarusian border,
00:04:40close this Estonian border properly here and go and close
00:04:44that one, then it's not us and you,
00:04:47right, in this context, that
00:04:51we all contribute to one
00:04:54European border, we have the
00:04:58Schengen area, this applies
00:05:01to everyone, regardless
00:05:03of whether we are in Estonia, Latvia,
00:05:15"Eero Janson, how should we treat people who come to our country and
00:05:19immediately start lying? One is the issue of lying about being a minor,
00:05:23we also heard that they go to the emergency room, get well,
00:05:26if a person really needed
00:05:29protection, then yes, it would be
00:05:32the most useful for him, and also for us, if he told
00:05:36his story immediately and honestly, and thereby helped
00:05:40the police border guard to do
00:05:43their work, and in fact, the European Union's
00:05:47law also allows to take into account
00:05:51those false statements that a person may
00:05:54have made during the procedure to his disadvantage,
00:05:58so I think, as said, it is useful for everyone if a person
00:06:01does not lie, and of course, it is in everyone's
00:06:05interest that people use
00:06:08only legal and documented
00:06:13ways to cross the border. However, the 1951 Refugee Convention
00:06:16also stipulates that if a person truly
00:06:20needs international protection, then in certain cases, illegal
00:06:24border crossing may be justified, or at least they should not
00:06:28be punished for it alone,
00:06:31provided that they immediately make themselves known to the border
00:06:34authorities and apply for asylum. Veiko Komussar,
00:06:38that really among those 269
00:06:41there were also 70 people who claimed to be minors, and
00:06:45then, upon closer examination, it turned out that only two were actually
00:06:48minors according to statistics, so why do they still
00:06:51lie to us? Yes, one reason is
00:06:54definitely playing with statuses,
00:06:58that in the course of this,
00:07:01they hope to get better protection conditions,
00:07:05and of course, when we talk about vulnerable groups in this
00:07:09context, that older people,
00:07:11women, and minor children, then they
00:07:15certainly also have higher
00:07:19due diligence requirements for international protection applications,
00:07:23and this is how they try to escape the actual situation,
00:07:27but, well, if it was also mentioned here that
00:07:30I very much agree with the previous speaker Laura, that Sandra,
00:07:34sorry, very much agree with Sandra, that
00:07:38our main effort must still be at the external
00:07:41border of the European Union, and to be strong there,
00:07:45because, well, if we draw a parallel from that, that
00:07:48if someone breaks into
00:07:51your home, and comes uninvited
00:07:54to your house, then generally we call
00:07:57the police, that and similarly
00:08:00in the context of illegal border crossing, that if you take
00:08:03this journey, where
00:08:07you basically hit the helper in the eye with a stone first, and then ask for help, right, what happens
00:08:11at the borders, right, that... well, what help should we figuratively
00:08:14provide to these criminals, right,
00:08:17that and and well, in today's context
00:08:21to bring tens of thousands
00:08:25of people into your country or the European Union and then start processing
00:08:28them here, knowing that there is actually
00:08:32no potential for this
00:08:34protection, well, that's not perhaps the right approach. Sandra
00:08:38Laur, the question also arose in the story, should we restore
00:08:41border control between Latvia and Estonia, considering that migration
00:08:45pressure is increasing in Latvia, what is your position?
00:08:48Yes, first of all, I would add that if illegal people
00:08:51come here and the first thing they do is lie to us,
00:08:55they want to exploit us, then don't think that if we now let them
00:08:59loose into society, then suddenly they will become
00:09:03law-abiding and exemplary citizens, but I guess no one is letting
00:09:06these illegal immigrants loose, and on the other hand,
00:09:09human rights were also mentioned. Look, if
00:09:12for example, a hostile state uses people as part of a hybrid attack
00:09:16and sends thousands of people to the border, then we cannot
00:09:20treat this hybrid attack as a humanitarian operation
00:09:23just because people are the weapon.
00:09:26War today is very dirty and people are exploited,
00:09:30but if there is an attack, it must be repelled, and our first duty is, but there were also children among them,
00:09:33still two people were minors, and now the law also
00:09:37discusses that these children should be sent to school, but specialists have
00:09:40pointed out today that if these children were to enter our education system, then they
00:09:44would be a threat to our own people, but
00:09:47we should also look at this concern more broadly,
00:09:51that if today, for example, TARO asks
00:09:54us to essentially report suspicious people
00:09:57in our society, then this is actually a direct
00:10:01admission that the state no longer controls the situation, and
00:10:04this is for people, people are worried, and this worry is, but then
00:10:08border control would be the solution. Of course, temporary
00:10:11border control should be considered. With Latvia, and don't get me wrong, this would not
00:10:15be revenge on our ally or punishment for Latvia, this is a completely
00:10:18normal practice. We see how, well, Germany
00:10:21controls its internal borders, Poland controls its border with Germany
00:10:25and Lithuania. The same opportunity is used by France, Austria, Denmark,
00:10:28Sweden. This is a practice stipulated by Schengen rules,
00:10:32and today it is important for us to control our borders, that our first priority
00:10:36must always be the security of our own country. Thank you.
00:10:39I wanted to elaborate on the question of restoring
00:10:42temporary Schengen border control. That in our society,
00:10:45it is indeed sometimes, when someone dares to bring up the idea that maybe
00:10:49internal borders should be restored,
00:10:52temporary control should be restored at internal borders.
00:10:56breaks out, that oh, oh, what will happen now, but if we look
00:11:00more broadly at Europe, then today more
00:11:03than one third has
00:11:07additional control imposed
00:11:10at internal borders, that is, Germany is,
00:11:14France is, Sweden is, and now, if we come back
00:11:17to the migration attack, then here
00:11:20there is an interesting context, namely
00:11:23it all started when Poland came under a very large migration attack in
00:11:272024, in 2024, and in
00:11:312025, from Belarus to Poland,
00:11:34somewhere around 20-30,000 people
00:11:38came per year, and then Poland
00:11:41decided that they would implement temporary
00:11:44additional border control in the Schengen area, and today the situation
00:11:48is that fewer than a thousand
00:11:51people come to Poland per year, and the timeline also shows that
00:11:55at the time when Poland implemented internal control
00:11:58with Lithuania first, this
00:12:02temporary border control, and from the same side also with Germany, then it made
00:12:05it more difficult for immigrants to reach Germany,
00:12:09because first they had to cross the Lithuanian border into Poland, and then again from Poland
00:12:13to Germany.
00:12:16Is it not true that the police actually also currently check cars
00:12:19coming from Latvia on those roads, so in some sense, we already
00:12:23have border control, even though we don't call it
00:12:25border control, but I would like to say to my friends and Latvians that it is very good that we have actually
00:12:29gone to help at the Belarusian border, and it is our clear
00:12:32duty, because even today, Latvians, it is just news that
00:12:36the saboteurs of our military
00:12:39company Vilrem were actually caught in Latvia by the Latvian
00:12:43police, so sometimes there are also cooperation points here,
00:12:46and trolling those individual roads coming from Latvia, if
00:12:50we were to say it completely, then of course the first priority is what Estonia is currently doing, that
00:12:54it helps to guard
00:12:57the external border of the European Union and operate there, but if it should happen
00:13:01that if we see, as Veiko, police Veiko
00:13:04said, that this year over 10,000 have come to Latvia,
00:13:08but last year over 10,000 came to Belarus, and if they no longer
00:13:11go further towards Lithuania or Poland, then that
00:13:15pressure can increase significantly more for us, and perhaps it is
00:13:18reasonable to consider it for some time, if there are no
00:13:21other measures, compensation measures.
00:13:25"And Viko Komussar, I understand that currently random checks are carried out
00:13:28on cars and people coming from Latvia, but what
00:13:32resources would it require to restore such full border
00:13:35control? Yes, first of all, that part
00:13:38where the strength of the European Union should
00:13:42lie and could lie in us very strongly guarding our European Union
00:13:44external border. The second question that is often
00:13:48raised is that there is temporary
00:13:51border control between countries within Schengen.
00:13:55We need to understand a bit what is behind this, that no
00:13:59classical border has been closed between any country
00:14:02within Schengen, that these are still measures of
00:14:06additional compensatory measures, additional patrols, additional
00:14:09checkpoints, mostly on major roads,
00:14:12in addition to all sorts of information sharing
00:14:16and all other stories, that today no border is still
00:14:20closed between any member state, that we can move freely, and if we move around,
00:14:24then perhaps... "Estonia sometimes becomes a target of control,
00:14:28but undoubtedly this movement or this activity has an impact,
00:14:31and Estonia is no exception here, that
00:14:34does the PPA even have the resources to check everyone
00:14:38coming from the direction of Latvia? Yes, if we wish, the Estonian
00:14:42state should reach a situation where we would have to
00:14:45close the border with Latvia, I don't know how that
00:14:48would help Latvia, or
00:14:51the migration attack problem in Europe as a whole, that
00:14:55we would create an isolated island of Latvia,
00:14:57this is definitely at least we feel that it is very unreasonable
00:15:01to do, rather to invest in the strengths
00:15:05on the Latvian and Belarusian borders, but if we talk about the price or the price tag
00:15:08now, then 30 days is 8 million euros. But would this
00:15:12border guard see that, for example, our Schengen area's
00:15:16external border, the eastern border, should be helped by other Schengen area countries,
00:15:19that, well, they operate on their own in Germany, but that they would also come
00:15:23to this side, and if we now look at Latvia, then Latvia has been helped by
00:15:27our colleagues from Finland,
00:15:31Lithuania, and last week
00:15:34Polish colleagues also reached the Latvian border,
00:15:37that the Latvian army,
00:15:40the Latvian police help to guard
00:15:44this whole Belarusian border, and that is the right
00:15:47way. Eero Janson, how is Estonia prepared for a situation
00:15:51where there should be really thousands
00:15:53of people at our border, that if this migration
00:15:57pressure somehow changes course?
00:16:00I think that public officials
00:16:03would be in a better position to answer how the state is prepared
00:16:07for this. However, if we think back
00:16:11from a human rights perspective, how would you act in such a situation?
00:16:14We are also prepared for various crisis scenarios,
00:16:18we are a humanitarian organization,
00:16:21we operate very
00:16:24extensively in Ukraine, Syria,
00:16:27Sudan, and now also in Palestine, meaning
00:16:31that we are ready to respond to crises, including
00:16:34in Estonia, truly, if such a need arises,
00:16:37and we very much hope that it will not. However, if we now think back
00:16:41to 2022 and onwards, then
00:16:44I think how the European Union as a whole coped
00:16:48not with 200 people, but with
00:16:51hundreds of thousands and millions of people
00:16:55in a very short timeframe, then we know that we can
00:16:58actually cope as a collective with such
00:17:02situations if they arise at our borders.
00:17:05I would like to add that, well, every
00:17:08country has the right to guard its border, there is
00:17:12no question here, but a country has a border,
00:17:16but I think that the limit of our empathy should not end where the state
00:17:19border ends. When we talk about Estonia's eastern border, well, Katrin
00:17:23Raik, there were also cases in Narva and
00:17:26Luhamaa this summer, where people came to our border whose documents had suddenly
00:17:29disappeared or been destroyed during the border crossing.
00:17:33So, well, does this actually worry local government leaders there
00:17:37on the spot? Or was the Narva border crossing point also
00:17:41closed for a couple of hours to resolve this specific
00:17:43incident? Of course, it still worries
00:17:47them, that people in the border area feel this border
00:17:50problem and concern more than people who
00:17:54but closing the border altogether, a final closure, actually
00:17:58closing the border, closing Estonia, is a difficult decision. Here one must
00:18:02consider that
00:18:05besides the physical border, the border is often also a question
00:18:08of identity for Narva people, that Narva people are used to living,
00:18:12and their whole identity is built on the fact that we are between St. Petersburg
00:18:16and Tallinn, you come from St. Petersburg to Tallinn, you go to Narva, you go from Narva
00:18:20to Tallinn, you go to Sillalinn 2022, when the border
00:18:23closed, partially closed in Narva,
00:18:27then this bridge function and bridge feeling
00:18:31disappeared from Narva, so for Narva, closing this border would be important
00:18:35from a security perspective. I
00:18:39don't believe it, here I would believe what Veiko says and
00:18:43would certainly acknowledge Veiko's words as correct, I don't
00:18:46believe that we have to completely close Estonia and isolate it,
00:18:50because what do we actually achieve with that, the border queue is no longer
00:18:54so long, people cross the border less often, repeated
00:18:56border crossings have decreased, let's be honest, Narva people cross less often,
00:19:00because there are so many goods that are not allowed to be transported across,
00:19:03when in between the main commodity, I understand, was cheese, which could be taken out of Estonia.
00:19:07You couldn't take it to Russia either, you had to tie it around
00:19:11your body in the toilet between the two borders,
00:19:14so now this trade, right, that fewer people are going, who are tourists
00:19:18coming from other countries, Narva is full of Finnish cars, because
00:19:21the border from Finland is closed, so 140 km
00:19:24from Narva to St. Petersburg, so it's not just a problem for Narva people,
00:19:28but a big part of Europe who wants to move towards St. Petersburg,
00:19:32and I don't know what we will achieve if
00:19:39that when looking at Europe more broadly,
00:19:43no, I don't know, is this assessment correct, that
00:19:47the European Union has handled this migration attack since 2015
00:19:50or these migration flows in the big picture,
00:19:53with registration, we have probably managed, but whether
00:19:57we have really managed with all the solutions
00:20:01during the last 11 or 12 years, well, here I
00:20:04certainly have a number of questions about what you mean? That
00:20:08well, all this giving international protection to individuals,
00:20:12actually determining the need for help, and well, the bigger question, even if these
00:20:16people have received this help, the question of their integration
00:20:19into societies, and on the other hand, if
00:20:22we look today, then the rates
00:20:25of returns are constantly increasing, that the European Union
00:20:29as a whole has actually made a significant turning
00:20:32point in this regard, that not everyone is
00:20:36any longer subjects of international protection,
00:20:40and Europe has still realized that coping with these masses
00:20:42is no longer something that was perhaps initially thought,
00:20:46and today no country has dealt with this issue
00:20:50alone, and if it was said here that
00:20:54we close this southern border, then from our perspective,
00:20:57it actually means that not only the police
00:21:00border guard is involved in this issue, but the entire state apparatus,
00:21:04from the armed forces, the Defense League, to local governments and
00:21:07other state institutions
00:21:10put their main emphasis on guarding
00:21:13the closed border. Are we today at a point where
00:21:16such a decision should be made? Definitely not. Sandra Laur, yes. The Russian
00:21:20border, it should have been closed a long time ago, that here we are not
00:21:23only talking about migration pressure, we are talking about the Milrem terrorist
00:21:27attack, we are talking about Russian fighters in our airspace and so
00:21:30on, that look my personal opinion is of course
00:21:34that we should also militarize our border guard, because
00:21:37any weakness in our border guard directly
00:21:40endangers the security of other countries
00:21:43in our region, and we see this especially
00:21:47in the case of using immigration as a weapon, we saw how
00:21:50Morocco used the Ceuta border as a geopolitical blackmail
00:21:53tool. Today, Russia would not even have to send any
00:21:57tanks across the border, but it would be enough if they loosened
00:22:00the border regime. That thousands of people, just let them go towards Estonia.
00:22:04That we should be immediately ready at the border
00:22:07to react to such a hybrid attack, and
00:22:10the army could react much more forcefully
00:22:14to it, meaning our task today is not only to guard our border,
00:22:17but also to protect it from the very first meter,
00:22:21from the very first minute, because cannot guarantee security.
00:22:24Let's dare to protect our people. I also wanted to say
00:22:28that I would rather say that we have
00:22:31not coped with this migration crisis that was in 2015.
00:22:35One thing is that if simply Estonia or more broadly?
00:22:38More broadly, more broadly, and well, it eventually
00:22:42reflects here in Estonia. That if it's one thing to
00:22:46try to give a person asylum and you process it, but you also have
00:22:49to find school places for him, you have to find housing for him,
00:22:53you have to ensure that he socializes
00:22:55into society, that crime doesn't
00:22:59run rampant, and first of all, you also
00:23:03have to make sure that society doesn't polarize, what we see today
00:23:06during various, for example, elections,
00:23:08how such very
00:23:11extremist parties come to
00:23:15power, then this is actually one consequence of that,
00:23:19and we can actually already say today that
00:23:22extremism can actually sometimes only be assessed retrospectively,
00:23:26and we can say that Merkel's behavior, in today's picture,
00:23:30how we look at how she coped, was at the time, today we can say it was
00:23:33extremism, to say to millions
00:23:36of people, come to Europe, we can handle it. Eero Janson, do you agree that Europe
00:23:39has thus failed, it seems to others? just in this
00:23:43area? Was 2015-16, when there was the so-called
00:23:46Syrian crisis, handled well?
00:23:50No, I think the Temporary Protection Directive should have been implemented
00:23:53for the first time back then,
00:23:56as it was finally done for Ukrainians in 2022.
00:24:00However, Veika also mentioned
00:24:03repatriations, and here I completely agree
00:24:07that the basis for the legitimacy of the right to asylum
00:24:10and asylum policy is actually that we
00:24:13are able firstly,
00:24:16to quickly identify people who need protection,
00:24:20and provide them with that necessary protection. Secondly, people who
00:24:23do not need protection should be swiftly,
00:24:27effectively, and humanely repatriated to their home country, or
00:24:31at least to a country with which they have a sufficient connection, so that they genuinely
00:24:34have a reason to return there. So,
00:24:38repatriation is not
00:24:39some kind of, well, let's say it's the
00:24:43basis of legitimacy for the entire asylum system, but
00:24:46it's just a common occurrence that repatriation, when we talk about failure,
00:24:50which we did, then repatriation is one example of how we have failed in the European
00:24:53Union, because only about
00:24:5730% of people can be sent back, for example, in Germany.
00:25:00And people still find ways to delay
00:25:04not being sent back to their home country, perhaps also cooperation
00:25:08between countries. So, is this currently on the table in many countries,
00:25:12how to facilitate sending people
00:25:14back to their home country more effectively?
00:25:18Well, one extreme in that sense... one such interesting approach is
00:25:22where the European Union has taken the position that we should establish
00:25:26asylum centers in countries outside the European Union,
00:25:29so we move them there. For example, there has been talk of Rwanda,
00:25:33Uganda, Albania, and
00:25:36then on the one hand, this should also act as a deterrent, so there is no pull factor to come to Europe, so that
00:25:39people know that they will be taken there, and this might
00:25:43also encourage this phenomenon, that we are
00:25:46more successful in deportations. For example, Sweden currently pays
00:25:50children money to return to their home country, but most still don't
00:25:53want to go, because it's comfortable to dip into the state's purse and ride
00:25:57on the back of society. Katrin Raik. My heart ached
00:26:01because of what Sandra said, that if our state border was not protected, our
00:26:04state border is actually protected, and increasingly so, every year
00:26:08we are not blind anymore and we see what happens on the border,
00:26:11not as ordinary people, but by the Police
00:26:14and Border Guard Board. The cooperation between the Police and Border Guard Board and the defense forces is actually
00:26:18very strong. I have seen that as
00:26:21the mayor of Narva, that currently in protecting
00:26:23the state border, a very good and strong job is being done. We
00:26:27must be very grateful to the people who do this work every day,
00:26:31and also to the Tax and Customs Board people as well. But
00:26:34perhaps we should discuss for a moment, if
00:26:37we currently have one detention center, am I right in saying it's overcrowded currently
00:26:41in Raevalla, then do we actually
00:26:45still need to expand this capability? Would you be willing
00:26:48to accept it in Narva, considering what obligations would arise? As we know, the correct answer is
00:26:52no, no, for God's sake, anywhere else, not here. So it was such
00:26:55a difficult topic, it isn't, but we have survived in Narva in 2022,
00:26:592023. Again, I'm not comparing illegal
00:27:03immigrants and war refugees from Ukraine, when people
00:27:06came, you know, across the border in tens and hundreds, children were born,
00:27:10people, unfortunately, died. People came with parrots,
00:27:13try bringing a parrot into the European Union, it wasn't that
00:27:17easy, and problems had to be solved
00:27:20around the clock. The city government's drivers were working around the clock,
00:27:23social welfare officials, social
00:27:25workers were working around the clock. It
00:27:29was a huge burden, and even then, a very strong
00:27:33question arose: what is the obligation of the local government? Does the local
00:27:36government put some of its own money, so to speak,
00:27:39into play by feeding people, providing water, providing
00:27:43food? Is the state then so
00:27:45honest, gentlemanly, that it will pay that money
00:27:49back later, under what scheme? These things
00:27:52definitely need more precise discussion, because we truly live
00:27:56in a time when hybrid attacks are an everyday
00:27:59part of life, we don't know what's next, so there are certainly
00:28:02more opportunities for cooperation. Yes, I think
00:28:06we cannot call a system a failure that has actually helped
00:28:10millions and millions of people
00:28:14over the years, giving them
00:28:16protection in this difficult situation.
00:28:19Similarly, I think there
00:28:22are many stereotypes related to migration that have already been expressed here at the table, and
00:28:26and also false
00:28:28claims spreading on social media, and so on.
00:28:32"The vast majority of people who leave their home country due to war or
00:28:36persecution do so within their home country or
00:28:40in neighboring countries. So this notion that
00:28:42there are masses of people everywhere who all
00:28:46want to come specifically to Europe, I think we think a little too
00:28:49highly of ourselves in this regard.
00:28:52The entire image of an immigrant as
00:28:56a kind of Schrödinger's immigrant, who at the same time comes and steals
00:29:00our jobs, and then at the same time also relies
00:29:04on support, who is dangerous and at the same time
00:29:07helpless. Well, I think that, well, I think we can do
00:29:10better. Is this country, or I don't know, society at large, also somewhat
00:29:14hypocritical, in that it treats Ukrainian refugees one way? If we
00:29:17remember 2015, when a wave of refugees also
00:29:21came to Europe, they were treated differently. But in the case of current illegal migration,
00:29:24we also know from social surveys that
00:29:27such an image of a stranger is always a bit alienating, right?
00:29:31That always... a person who looks
00:29:35a little more like us, or who has some characteristics
00:29:38similar to us, it is easier to feel
00:29:41empathy for them. But I think that
00:29:45says something about our society if we cannot show empathy
00:29:49towards people, towards people
00:29:52who look a little different, or whose stories
00:29:56are tragic and difficult. Sandra Laur, yes, I
00:29:59think at this point we need to take off our ideological glasses and look at what is happening,
00:30:03that the limitations and rapes associated with immigrants
00:30:06have already reached Estonia today. CAPO has warned for years
00:30:09about the risks of radicalization, about the growing Muslim community
00:30:13growing, and we see that today. In Tartu, a hundred
00:30:16Muslims gathered for Eid al-Adha prayers, and they confirmed that they had
00:30:20previously illegally skinned animals
00:30:23for this holiday in Estonia. But what rapes are you talking about? Yes, last
00:30:27year, Ghanaian citizens raped intoxicated
00:30:29women in Estonia. A Syrian war refugee
00:30:35lighter fluid over her, and threatened to set her on fire. The notorious
00:30:39Sudanese Bolt driver, who was also
00:30:42a refugee, raped a schoolgirl, and he still cannot
00:30:46be deported from our country. So the question is, how long can we
00:30:50deny reality in the name of ideology, and how long can
00:30:53we ignore these conflicts simply because left-wingers should
00:30:57admit that their boundless tolerance endangers the entire
00:31:00society.