Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:02buy a house, I mean, it's not that much. Go back 5-10 years,
00:00:05we could do these things, the retirees, the workers are already gone,
00:00:09they especially killed the retirees, but we are alive, we are fighting for our lives,
00:00:12how does this nation do it, may Allah help this nation."
00:00:29"
00:00:34We are on Halk TV, we are on Para Siyaset, we will be with you for 3 hours from 8 to 11,
00:00:38we will bring the important developments of the day to your screens
00:00:41with our comments. How will we end this week, which agenda
00:00:45topics will carry over to the weekend and next week, uh,
00:00:48we will talk about today and this week, and the weekend.
00:00:52Now, uh, a historical turning point that has been awaited for a long time
00:00:56is called, the national solidarity and social integration.
00:01:00The law proposal to strengthen it, that is, the framework
00:01:04law proposal, has now become its name. The law
00:01:06proposal to strengthen national solidarity
00:01:09and social integration was submitted
00:01:12to the Parliament Speaker's Office with 360
00:01:16signatures. AK Party Group Chairman Abdullah Güler
00:01:19made a statement, and MHP Group Deputy Chairmen were also
00:01:23with him. Now, uh, which
00:01:26parties, what voices were heard, what
00:01:29statements came, and besides this framework,
00:01:33uh, what does this law proposal
00:01:36bring at this historical turning point, what are
00:01:39the details of this 12-article regulation, uh, we
00:01:42will talk about this as much
00:01:43In a way, it will also be as we can, we will try to convey it. Now,
00:01:47uh, this 12-article framework draft was submitted
00:01:51to the Parliament Speaker's Office with 360 signatures. It is expected to come to the Justice Committee
00:01:55tomorrow and then be discussed in the General Assembly and become law
00:01:58before the parliament goes on recess. Now, uh, after this law is enacted,
00:02:02uh, a monitoring,
00:02:05presidential, and National Security decision will be published
00:02:09in the Official Gazette and the process will begin. First,
00:02:12a report and decision will be issued stating that KCK and
00:02:15PKK were eliminated, the terrorist organization was eliminated, and weapons
00:02:19were laid down. This
00:02:22decision, uh, the presidential decision and the National Security Council
00:02:26decision will be published in the Official Gazette and the process
00:02:29will begin. Applications will be accepted
00:02:32within 6 months. There is a 6-month period,
00:02:36and this period should not be exceeded. So the law
00:02:39was enacted with a time limit. Now, crimes before 2005,
00:02:43especially crimes involving aggravated life imprisonment, are not
00:02:46covered. This also indicates
00:02:50that Öcalan is not covered. A statement is made
00:02:52that this law proposal does
00:02:55not cover before 2005. So
00:02:58what happens afterwards? Those who received sentences of 1
00:03:02year or more are excluded from the scope
00:03:05of crimes of murder and related
00:03:08sexual content. In other words,
00:03:12it is stated that some crimes, excluding murder,
00:03:16will be excluded from this law.
00:03:19In parallel, apart from these crimes,
00:03:22those who received sentences under 15 years, and those
00:03:26who were sentenced and tried for over 15 years will be monitored
00:03:30for 10 years. In the meantime, all those
00:03:33investigation files will be suspended, and if they commit any crime,
00:03:37they will be excluded from this law, they will be excluded
00:03:40from this regulation. Therefore, there will be a monitoring process,
00:03:44as far as we understand. Selahattin Demirtaş will benefit
00:03:48from this law. The new party's
00:03:51Chairman Özgür Özel, first of all, the CHP signed it. The New Way
00:03:55Party, the Den Party, Akhur Ittifak partners
00:03:59Hüdapar, MHP, AK Party, AK Party and Cumhur Ittifak
00:04:03deputies continuously signed this law and
00:04:06it was submitted to the Parliament Speaker's Office with 360 signatures. The new party's Chairman
00:04:10Özgür Özel said, "Our stance has not changed,
00:04:13but there are some
00:04:17mistakes, shortcomings, and objections in terms of style and procedure."
00:04:20He states that even though their general approach is the same,
00:04:23they have raised these objections.
00:04:26For example, regulations such as steps
00:04:30to ensure democracy, especially the trustee, and the implementation
00:04:34of Constitutional Court and ECHR decisions are not included in this law,
00:04:37so this leg remained incomplete, he states. At the same time,
00:04:40they made us sign a blank paper, the proposal came in a sealed
00:04:44envelope, we opened the proposal,
00:04:47just as our friends who were members of the commission
00:04:50before, our friends working on this issue, were about to make a full
00:04:53assessment, the law proposal was submitted
00:04:57to the Parliament Speaker's Office, so he conveyed his objections
00:05:00about not being able to grasp the content due to such timing and speed.
00:05:04In other words, "Although we have objections in terms of procedure and style,
00:05:07there is no change in our general approach," says
00:05:11the new party's chairman, Özgür Özel. Therefore,
00:05:14as of yesterday, we know the content of the 12-article
00:05:17law draft, the framework law proposal,
00:05:20which will come to the commission tomorrow. The first signatures were given by MHP leader
00:05:24Devlet Bahçeli and Parliament Speaker Numan Kurtulmuş.
00:05:27Sinan Burhan spoke.
00:05:31MHP leader and Chairman Bahçeli,
00:05:34uh, said that he didn't attend group meetings and didn't make a statement
00:05:37because the President was closely
00:05:40following this issue and the Parliament Speaker
00:05:42had efforts underway. He said he didn't want to overshadow
00:05:46their work and statements, he didn't want to get ahead of them.
00:05:50MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli, when signing the first signature,
00:05:53also reiterated in his statement
00:05:57that Demirtaş should go home and Ahmetler should take office
00:06:00and Öcalan should have hope. Let's also convey
00:06:04that uh, in this
00:06:07process, uh, he was one of the individuals
00:06:10who took the biggest responsibility. MHP leader Devlet
00:06:13Bahçeli, and when asked about Demirtaş,
00:06:17he said he did not visit him but communicates with him through his lawyers.
00:06:20He also said that in the past, they worked together under the same
00:06:24parliamentary roof. He stated, "Our relationship and dialogue are good."
00:06:28He also has different statements.
00:06:31We will talk about MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli's statements
00:06:34in the headlines regarding this law proposal and process.
00:06:38Meanwhile, AK Party Group Chairman
00:06:41Abdullah Güler, uh, when asked
00:06:44about improving İmralı's conditions, said that
00:06:47there is no need for a law for Öcalan to meet
00:06:51with journalists and academics,
00:06:54and for this meeting traffic to intensify. He said
00:06:57that this can be handled with administrative regulations.
00:07:01So we understand that visits to İmralı
00:07:04by journalists and academics will be more frequent,
00:07:07and administrative regulations can be made at this point. However,
00:07:10Öcalan is not in this law,
00:07:14it does not cover him, this was conveyed
00:07:17to you yesterday in the comments and today in the newspapers.
00:07:21We will discuss in more detail
00:07:23what the law covers, since we learned
00:07:27that it does not cover before 2005. But
00:07:30we are talking about a process targeting individuals,
00:07:33members of a terrorist organization, who have not committed
00:07:36certain crimes such as murder
00:07:39or sexual crimes, and who have received sentences
00:07:43of under 15 years or over 15 years. This process will begin
00:07:46when it is confirmed that they have laid down their weapons,
00:07:50that the organization has been dismantled, and that they have laid down their weapons.
00:07:53We understand with this law
00:07:56framework and proposal that applications will be received,
00:08:00and in this context, it is a process where releases,
00:08:04sentence reductions, or investigations stop.
00:08:07It will come to the commission tomorrow, and we will see more
00:08:10detailed discussions there.
00:08:25we see that it has been exceeded and the process has started. The leader of the İYİ Party,
00:08:29Müsavat Dervişoğlu, had a very strong reaction and statements
00:08:32regarding the law proposal. Now, the statements
00:08:35and the summary of the situation regarding yesterday,
00:08:39the summary of the framework law, were like this. Now, let's turn
00:08:42to Üsküdar Municipality, we will talk about that too.
00:08:45Now, 26 to 27
00:08:49against 17, uh, that is,
00:08:52CHP had 27, uh, AK Party had 17
00:08:55members of the council, and the election of the deputy mayor was held,
00:08:59that deputy mayor election was only concluded
00:09:02after 4 rounds. We understood that 6 CHP
00:09:06members voted for the AK Party candidate at the end of the four rounds of this election.
00:09:09With 22 votes against 18
00:09:13in the 4th round, no, the signatures are missing, no,
00:09:16invalid votes, no, count again, no, we have an objection,
00:09:19why do you have an objection, do I have to say,
00:09:23I have an objection, uh,
00:09:26throughout the day, in the four-round election
00:09:29result, with 22 votes
00:09:33against 18, Sibel Çetinkaya was elected
00:09:37Deputy Mayor of Üsküdar. She said,
00:09:40"I am taking this deputy mayorship
00:09:43to hand over the duty to the Mayor again."
00:09:46Sibel Çetinkaya. AK Party members said, "We will go to court,
00:09:50we object." So, in the election result
00:09:53that lasted four rounds, with controversial, tense discussions
00:09:57between AK Party members who said, "You are taking our rights,
00:10:01you are stealing our rights," and CHP members,
00:10:04the new party rejoiced. This is another situation.
00:10:08We will talk about everything. We are living
00:10:11through days where we are facing a very different situation and picture.
00:10:15Because what other developments
00:10:18are there besides this? Let's open the newspapers
00:10:21and see what headlines they have seen
00:10:24and what developments they have highlighted. "Great reconciliation
00:10:28search, that is,
00:10:31the details of the law proposal that will ensure
00:10:35national solidarity and social integration
00:10:38are reflected in the headlines of almost
00:10:42all newspapers today. Therefore,
00:10:44uh,
00:10:46we see headlines and titles
00:10:50explaining what this framework draft
00:10:53brings and what it is,
00:11:12you the economic headlines. Now, oil
00:11:15prices dropped just below $79-80.
00:11:18Uh, it was at $79.
00:11:22It had risen above $90.
00:11:25And we had successive price hikes for diesel and gasoline.
00:11:29LPG also had a price hike recently. Then we saw Trump
00:11:31say, "I'm starting negotiations with Iran." He said
00:11:35he would stop the weapons, look at their situation, and the Strait of Hormuz
00:11:39could be opened. He said this was their last chance.
00:11:42The weapons stopped, negotiations began. In fact,
00:11:46there are signs of a big agreement possibly happening soon.
00:11:49US stock markets are soaring, and oil prices suddenly
00:11:53dropped by over $10. "Now, when it was rising,
00:11:57we saw 82 liras for diesel. When it drops,
00:11:59not much changes for us, because there was a discount of over 6 liras,
00:12:03this was reflected to us as 1.05 or 1.5 kuruş. Yesterday,
00:12:07there was a discount of over 3 liras, almost 4 liras, it was not reflected
00:12:10at all. So, as you know, gasoline, diesel, and LPG
00:12:13prices are 80 liras, over 80 liras,
00:12:16and gasoline prices are between 67
00:12:20and 68 liras, LPG is over 33 liras. Nothing
00:12:24has changed for us. Therefore, oil prices are falling,
00:12:27but we don't really hear about it. What rises
00:12:31when oil falls? Gold rises,
00:12:35it went above $4250, at one point it approached $4300,
00:12:38and while the gram of gold
00:12:42was trading around 6000 liras,
00:12:45suddenly yesterday it was 6200 liras,
00:12:48it rose to 6516 and exceeded
00:12:516500 liras. We can say
00:12:54that there was a rapid increase in the price of gold per gram
00:12:57along with gold. There is also a recovery in Bitcoin, but it is quite
00:13:01limited, the trend continues
00:13:04at low levels there. The dollar-euro parity,
00:13:07the euro-dollar parity, is at 1.15 levels, the euro has recovered a bit.
00:13:11Uh, the dollar lost strength while gold
00:13:14gained strength. We saw downward movements in oil and dollar prices.
00:13:17For us, it's 47.60
00:13:20dollar-TL, and Euro-TL. There's also a horizontal
00:13:24trend in the stock market. Let's see uh, especially whether the American
00:13:27stock markets' exuberance will be joined
00:13:31by our Borsa Istanbul. We will
00:13:34monitor it. Meanwhile, regarding the economy,
00:13:37what will happen to our natural gas bills in the winter?
00:13:41We have important information for you on these points.
00:13:45We will prepare you for winter today. What is the situation
00:13:48in the market? What prices have increased, what prices are not falling, we will talk
00:13:51about those too. You can see that gasoline and diesel
00:13:53are not falling. Uh, we switched
00:13:57to tiered billing for natural gas, so when our bills increase in winter months,
00:14:01many more people
00:14:04may pay twice as much. I will explain
00:14:07this to you with examples in these time slots.
00:14:10It was said that 12% of residential
00:14:13subscribers would be affected, but it is commented
00:14:16that 35-40%, that is, nearly half of the country,
00:14:20could be affected by this tiered natural gas price increase.
00:14:23We will also convey to you
00:14:27notes on what we will experience and see in the winter months.
00:14:30While some people are buying luxury watches and spending 9.5 billion liras,
00:14:3380% of the country is wondering how they will pay
00:14:36their natural gas bills while their salaries are eroding.
00:14:40We will elaborate and discuss all of this. Let's take
00:14:44a look at today's newspapers. Turkey will succeed,
00:14:48uh, so the process of a Turkey without terror and the complete eradication of terror,
00:14:51the dismantling of the terrorist organization, the laying down of weapons,
00:14:55and then the events that occurred, Hürriyet Newspaper
00:14:58says today, "Turkey will succeed," the President says, "May it bring good fortune,"
00:15:01uh, this law is a historical
00:15:05step, a beginning. Statements from the Den
00:15:07Party, the keys to the new era
00:15:11were given on the front page of all newspapers,
00:15:14uh, it is called a historical turning point, a historical
00:15:18opportunity. We use WhatsApp the most,
00:15:21while Cumhuriyet Newspaper says it's a process full of uncertainties.
00:15:27Today's headline is about what the uncertainties might be,
00:15:30and it followed this issue. Uh, everyone in the assassination
00:15:33team was a FETO member. Burkay Karatepe
00:15:36was the last fugitive of the assassination
00:15:40team against President Erdoğan in Marmaris, all of them were caught, he was a fugitive.
00:15:43Uh, this terrorist FETO member
00:15:47was wanted for approximately 10 years and was caught. He was captured
00:15:50as a result of intense surveillance between Afyonkarahisar
00:15:54and Eskişehir and was caught using an eye recognition system
00:15:57developed and used by MIT. Therefore,
00:16:01it is stated that he wanted to benefit from effective repentance. At the same
00:16:04time, he states that they received instructions
00:16:08to bring President Erdoğan to the place they designated,
00:16:11and that everyone there
00:16:14was a FETO member. In other words,
00:16:17his statements contain very important
00:16:20details about the FETO Gulenist terrorist organization.
00:16:24Today's headlines also include
00:16:27the statements of Burkay Karatepe,
00:16:30the captured FETO terrorist. What will the brotherhood
00:16:33agreement bring with this law?
00:16:36This was in the headlines of all newspapers. "The first stage of the process
00:16:39is amnesty," says Birgün newspaper. "The most critical stage in the process,"
00:16:43says Karar newspaper. As you can see, these developments
00:16:46and this law proposal are in all headlines.
00:16:50And also, a young woman was killed
00:16:54by her ex-boyfriend who she had broken up with. This man had previously
00:16:57stabbed his girlfriend,
00:17:00received a sentence, but was released. He had
00:17:03a restraining order, and he still killed
00:17:07that young woman. He was obsessed, he wanted to do it, he stabbed her,
00:17:11he was released and he did it again. Everyone is still asking
00:17:15why he was released, why measures were not taken.
00:19:27Afşin Hatipoğlu, lawyer.
00:19:31for 3 hours, we will try
00:20:24while you were away, those who joined the AK Party,
00:20:27those imprisoned in Çorlu Type K prison,
00:20:31uh, mayors who were detained,
00:20:34arrested, uh, well,
00:20:38the details that were spread around, Özgür Özel gaining
00:20:41the title of the politician with the most dossiers
00:20:44with 61 dossiers.
00:20:46Alir Başarır. He says, for example,
00:20:50"we submit a petition," he says, "you know it better,"
00:20:53I couldn't articulate it properly there, so I didn't explain it.
00:20:57He says, "we submit a petition to learn the subject of this dossier,"
00:21:00he says, "we wait, but it's not given to us." Then he says,
00:21:04"you open the televisions, you open the newspapers,
00:21:07you see all the details of the dossier." He says, "what kind of work is this?"
00:21:11He asks, "how does this happen?" for example,
00:21:13or he is detained, we see some messages,
00:21:17are they true or not? For example, Murat Bakan says
00:21:21that these messages about the Menderes Mayor, about İlkay,
00:21:25are not true messages, he says we don't accept them.
00:21:28But those messages are spread everywhere
00:21:31and we are criticized for not reading them. Should those messages be read
00:21:34on TV? I saw those who criticize,
00:21:37they are not people I will take seriously, but if
00:21:40they are going to share them, for example, are those messages
00:21:43in the detention of the Çankaya Mayor? Are
00:21:47those messages in the detention of Mr. Ekrem?
00:22:02How does a man's private life concern me? I am discussing the legal
00:22:05composition here. Besides, were the evidence shared
00:22:09through legal channels or outside of law? Is it real or not?
00:22:12If you pass a law on political ethics, I can't go
00:22:16into that. I mean,
00:22:19we are explaining it, we are talking about so many things,
00:22:23and that person timed it for the commercial break and shared it,
00:22:26and is attacking us from there. Meanwhile, the first
00:22:29operation against the new party is being carried out, Manisa Provincial
00:22:33Chairman İksen Özalper was detained. Uh, such a development
00:22:36also happened yesterday. Could you also tell me about this
00:22:40development? What is this? Uh, Manisa Provincial Chairman İksen Özalper.
00:22:43I don't know the news about the first operation against the new party. I mean,
00:22:47I heard the news, but I don't know why they detained him.
00:22:50If there is any news, uh,
00:22:53Dincher has it. CHP's Dincher
00:22:56uh, I don't know the subject. So,
00:23:00they started the operation? No, and it's interesting, there's news about him in many places,
00:23:04that the provincial chairman was dismissed, but there's no content about what happened.
00:23:07So, is it somehow related to the municipal
00:23:10investigations and prosecutions, yes, parallel to that,
00:23:14something like that, or a certain project,
00:23:17whatever, we'll look into it. It's within the scope of a bribery investigation.
00:23:21Bribery.
00:23:23No, he's a provincial chairman, that's not a very official position, is it?
00:23:27It's not a, you know, a public
00:23:30or, you know, a state administrative duty.
00:23:34The provincial chairman is a civil politician.
00:23:37I mean, not in the sense of being a provincial chairman,
00:23:40but I guess if there are allegations against him, they detained him for that. Maybe
00:23:44he was also the CHP provincial chairman in the previous period, I wonder.
00:23:47Ebru Hanım, now he is the new party's provincial chairman.
00:23:58The thing is, yes, the allegation of bribery
00:24:01was part of an investigation carried out in Ankara, yes.
00:24:05So, because the municipality in Manisa is a CHP municipality,
00:24:09it's probably something like acting as a catalyst
00:24:11or an intermediary between the contractors working
00:24:15for the municipality and the municipality itself.
00:24:20Dinçer says it also has a symbolic aspect. He says İksen Özalper,
00:24:23the provincial chairman of Manisa, is Özgür Özel's childhood
00:24:26friend. Anyway,
00:24:29Veli Ağbaba, the new party's Malatya
00:24:33deputy, says, "If I have an HTS record, I am ready to be executed."
00:24:36He has not undertaken any administrative role
00:24:40in the new period in the councils.
00:24:43If there are HTS and base records
00:24:47of my advisor or myself, I am ready
00:24:50to be executed, he says. That's an incomplete statement.
00:24:54He says, "I and my family did not receive any tenders from the public." So if
00:24:58there is such a thing, let's say theoretically, I paid attention even to my HTS records,
00:25:02so if there is, I am ready to be executed. I mean, you would say he is Allah's
00:25:05dishonorable, you would say he is a scoundrel if anyone proves I received it.
00:25:09I wrote that down. If you find my notes, I'll
00:25:12commit suicide. So, I'm willing to be executed, he says. Anyway,
00:25:20careful, you don't have a record of that," what will happen? Will it be like that?
00:25:24I interpreted it as you won't find such a document
00:25:28about me, it doesn't exist. Of course, say something comprehensive, for example, "Such a thing
00:25:32has never happened, those who claim this are dishonorable," say something like that.
00:25:35It's necessary to say something comprehensive.
00:25:38Right? They should discuss legal
00:25:42matters within the legal framework and, if they have the right to defend themselves
00:25:46in this regard, of course, towards such accusations. Unfortunately,
00:25:55they fall into this trap.
00:25:58AK Party and its supporters
00:26:01are constantly trying to drag you into a
00:26:04personal space, into private
00:26:08life, into personal feelings.
00:26:11They want to evaluate issues
00:26:14from these perspectives and constantly
00:26:17act against your
00:26:20person. It's important not to fall into this trap. If there's
00:26:24a concrete accusation against you, you answer it with concrete
00:26:28evidence. You act in this manner.
00:26:30There's no need for anyone to die
00:26:34or be hanged because of an accusation.
00:26:37They reject expressing themselves in this way.
00:26:40It's a very emotional, romantic situation.
00:26:44Let's talk about Üsküdar, then move on to the bill. It was very strange.
00:26:48Üsküdar went back and forth, back and forth, then
00:26:51it stayed with the new party, I guess
00:26:55it's with the CHP now. We say it stayed with the CHP, it was
00:26:58discussed with much emotion, meaning those who are
00:27:01with the AK Party. The name given,
00:27:05the name nominated against them. Their
00:27:08situation, the way votes were cast, for example, this guy with glasses
00:27:12is the AK Party candidate, as far as I can see.
00:27:14And the other
00:27:17lady, the CHP candidate.
00:27:21There was a situation regarding a name being written down and so on.
00:27:25But it's very interesting, the municipal council members
00:27:33in proper Turkish on the ballot.
00:27:36It's very interesting,
00:27:39it's very strange. They just have to write a name and surname.
00:27:43Either they write Ebru Baki or they can't write Ebru Baki, is that why
00:27:47one of them was deemed invalid? One of them was deemed invalid
00:27:50from such a discussion.
00:27:53One of them wrote "Ibrahim" for example, they showed me. They wrote a name that has nothing
00:27:57to do with that name. For example, you're a municipal council member
00:28:01in Üsküdar. How can you not write your name and surname
00:28:04in a complete form on a ballot?
00:28:08I don't understand, it's very strange. There's no education limit
00:28:11for council membership. Even if someone has only finished
00:28:15primary school. You just have to
00:28:17write your name
00:28:19and surname, they're not asking you to write a composition.
00:28:23Writing it hastily while writing your candidate is something else. But
00:28:27what's interesting there is that people, I think,
00:28:30we often encounter people who can write their names and surnames
00:28:33correctly, and of course, it's a very serious matter.
00:28:36In fact, it's a serious matter for Afşin Messul too, but what's interesting here is that
00:28:40in the first and second rounds, there are 26 council members,
00:28:43if I remember correctly, of the CHP in Üsküdar. 26, yes.
00:28:4627 to 27 to 17.
00:28:50It was 17 to 27. Now,
00:28:53there, for example, in the 3rd round, it drops
00:28:56to 21. It drops to 21 for
00:28:59the Republican People's Party.
00:29:0218 votes go to the AK Party candidate, the Justice and Development
00:29:06Party. However, 5 votes of the Justice and Development Party
00:29:08are not accepted, not counted.
00:29:12So if they were counted, it would end 23-21 or something. So we're talking about
00:29:16a district held by
00:29:17the CHP.
00:29:20Yes, in the 4th round, in 4 rounds,
00:29:23it changes again. What happened there? Now, we need to
00:29:27question this ebb and flow of events. What's happening?
00:29:30Why did you do this? Did you seriously consider something? Did you want
00:29:34the Justice and Development Party to win? I mean, there's a
00:29:38strange situation, it's very strange,
00:29:40it's a very
00:29:41strange situation. When discipline
00:29:45is lost, such
00:29:48deviations are completely normal. Right now, are the council
00:29:52members there CHP members, independents,
00:29:55or new party members? It's not
00:29:56clear.
00:30:00They all turned out to be CHP members. True. I mean, in 2024,
00:30:03they all came out as CHP members from the ballot box, but right now,
00:30:06there's no organizational or institutional discipline over them.
00:30:10Now, when there's no organizational or institutional discipline in a
00:30:13political party, individual attitudes emerge,
00:30:16and group decisions and group practices
00:30:19disappear. Now, the entire incident
00:30:23that happened in Üsküdar is related to the disappearance of
00:30:26organizational discipline. Later,
00:30:30Özgür Çelik, I think, with his friends,
00:30:33took control of the situation and cleared the ball
00:30:36from the goal, and they won the municipality again. But it's clear
00:30:40there was a deviation, because it's not just one or two votes.
00:30:43When you look at it relatively, there was a change
00:30:47in approximately 20% of the council members.
00:30:50It's a very big change. Now, this is not
00:30:54a normal deviation. For example, one person might be okay, two people
00:30:56might be okay, let's say, but here, it's as if
00:31:005-6 people switched sides. Now, if we were to give a microphone
00:31:03to these council members today, "Are you with the CHP,
00:31:07that is, with Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, are you
00:31:09independent, or are you with Özgür Bey?"
00:31:13they would have to answer such a question. Now, when such
00:31:17organizational discipline disappears, this situation is very normal.
00:31:20Probably, just like they did in Bayrampaşa,
00:31:23the AK Party members will take Üsküdar to court,
00:31:27and they will try to get a decision from there. Will they succeed or not?
00:31:31We'll see. Of course, there are different
00:31:34discussions. I mean, even among themselves, there's no
00:31:38unity, that is, those council members have
00:31:42disagreements among themselves.
00:31:51on a principled basis, unique to Turkey. Now, for example,
00:31:55it's clear that there's no proper organizational discipline, no hierarchical
00:31:58structure from top to bottom for an organization, no drawing of a perspective,
00:32:02and no adherence to this discipline. These dynamics are clearly
00:32:06absent. But on the other hand, are threats and blackmail at play?
00:32:09We need to look into this. Or in the third
00:32:12item, I don't know, an offer of gain. Whatever
00:32:16the case may be, in the former Republican People's Party, in Kılıçdaroğlu's
00:32:19CHP, that is, Kılıçdaroğlu's Republican People's Party, they should remain loyal
00:32:23to it, or if it's a new party, let it be. The Republican People's Party,
00:32:27which you were once under the same roof with, has won
00:32:30here. Or if we read it in reverse, at least the Justice and
00:32:34Development Party has not won.
00:32:36With what parameters do you want to
00:32:40give a district that the Justice and Development Party has not won
00:32:44back to the Justice and Development Party? "For example, if
00:32:47there was such a tendency in the 4th round after the 3rd round,
00:32:51and 5 votes were not cancelled, would you have been okay with this?
00:32:54I mean, a district that the people did not favor, did not vote for,
00:32:57would you find it ethically correct to take it and give it back
00:33:01to the Justice and Development Party just because you were divided?
00:33:04Do you politically stomach this? Do you reinforce this in a way
00:33:08that can be accounted for to the people of Üsküdar? These
00:33:11questions need to be asked." The president is also in custody. But
00:33:15do these friends have this in a table
00:33:18format? If you could project it, something interesting caught my attention there.
00:33:22The first round, second round, third round, it goes to four,
00:33:25right? If we put those rounds' votes, there's an interesting
00:33:28situation. Now, when you said it,
00:33:32it came to my mind when I saw that table yesterday. Okay,
00:33:35the municipal council members seem to change their position in the 3rd
00:33:39round, but then they come back again.
00:33:42That's also a strange situation. So, "Are you saying
00:33:46there was an intervention that made them change their votes?" No,
00:33:49now, if there's a prospect of personal gain here, what happened? Did it retract?
00:33:53What happened in two rounds? What happened to those people? Now,
00:33:56such a prospect of personal gain or a threat, there's such an implication,
00:34:00right? I mean, in Özgür Çelik's statements, he says that the AK
00:34:03Party, through all sorts of dirty deals, influenced the will
00:34:07of our council members.
00:34:10He says, "Okay, Özgür Çelik went, then Özgür
00:34:13Çelik went to Tuzla and so on." The influence happened in the third round, and they came back
00:34:17in the fourth. So did the AK Party retract its threats,
00:34:21in quotation marks, or promises? That's also
00:34:24very interesting, of course. But I don't know about the other thing. I completely
00:34:28agree with what you said about politics. They look at it as, "Let the party
00:34:32be mine, no matter what." There's no such thing as principled political virtue,
00:34:35but there's also a strange situation mathematically.
00:34:39It was a change, that's why I brought up this topic
00:34:42anyway. A very strange election. How
00:34:46should we define it? The person is not even in the new party. CHP,
00:34:49that is, Ms. Sinem's
00:34:51supporters or Ms. Sinem's friends
00:34:55go in 1-2, come back in 3, and come back
00:34:59in 4. So what happened there? Now, if the
00:35:03AK Party threatened and promised personal gain, did it retract
00:35:06the threat and personal gain?
00:35:09I mean, there's also such a possibility. For example, how many of them are currently with the Republican
00:35:12People's Party, and how many went to the new party? For example, I don't know if those five people
00:35:16are with the Republican People's Party. The ones who are,
00:35:19look, you can't express anything. You still need us. To make a
00:35:23show of strength, a reaction to the lady
00:35:27who was nominated, or a message to Özgür Çelik
00:35:30in the sense of, "See our power, when we change
00:35:34sides, we have the power to influence
00:35:38the fate of this place." Was it to send this message that
00:35:41there was such a wobble for one round?
00:35:50Did they want to send a message like, "If we act like this, we can cause trouble for you"? But it was 27 to 17, and in the end,
00:35:54it was won with 22 to 18.
00:35:56So there's still a difference there. In the third round, it was 21,
00:36:0021, it was heading towards a tie.
00:36:03Then in the 4th round,
00:36:07with one vote, no, in the 3rd round, 5 votes of the Justice and Development Party
00:36:11were cancelled. If they hadn't been cancelled, they would have taken
00:36:14it. They would have taken it in the third round anyway. I think,
00:36:18if I remember correctly, I need to check again. There is something. But
00:36:22I hope we don't experience this in the future.
00:36:25I mean, tomorrow or the day after,
00:36:28"If something like this happens in the IBB
00:36:29council, this is their preparation for it.
00:36:33If Mr. Ekrem İmamoğlu faces a political
00:36:37ban, then his
00:36:40mayorship will fall. Since his mayorship has fallen, there won't be a deputy mayor,
00:36:43but a mayoral election will be held. At that point,
00:36:47if the current municipal council members, that is,
00:36:51the Metropolitan Municipality Council members, are to be elected
00:36:54or something, I hope such a thing doesn't happen,
00:36:57but if it does, then it will be the scene of great discussions
00:37:01and conflicts. One of the closest cases to be concluded is
00:37:04the "fool" case. The "fool" case seems to be
00:37:08three and a half years long. If a political ban comes from the "fool" case,
00:37:11the local elections in 25, that is,
00:37:15right in the middle of the road, can change. Let them check, there's a difference of about
00:37:1813-14, I guess. Where? The Metropolitan
00:37:21Municipality says 10. I remember it as a bit more than 10, like
00:37:2513-14. Yes. When the political ban comes,
00:37:29I remember it as 10 and above. That's a very dangerous difference, especially
00:37:33for the Republic.
00:37:36It can be lost, I mean, there's such a possibility. The CHP dropped to 157,
00:37:39the AK Party rose to 138. So
00:37:42they say it's a 10-point difference, but there's a slightly larger difference.
00:37:45If a political ban comes,
00:37:48this council majority could pass to the AK Party, the People's Alliance, they say.
00:37:52I remember it as 157 to 138 for
00:37:56the Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality.
00:37:58Yes, now, in the first round, as you said, in Üsküdar,
00:38:0244 people voted, one blank vote came out.
00:38:06The CHP candidate gets 27 votes, the AK Party candidate gets 16 votes. The majority
00:38:10is not secured, it continues. This happened in our time zone anyway.
00:38:14Gamze Altunay reported it. Then one of the CHP candidate's votes
00:38:17is declared invalid. They get 26 votes, so
00:38:2026 to 16. Yes, it goes to the second round.
00:38:24The CHP gets 26 votes, the AK Party gets 16. Two are declared invalid.
00:38:28Yes. In the third
00:38:32round, the AK Party's votes increase.
00:38:3421 for CHP, 18 for AK Party. They say 5 votes are invalid. Then
00:38:38the invalid votes are a conscious choice anyway. Five people
00:38:42at the same time, yes, they make it invalid. That's a show
00:38:46of strength. Those five people are doing this
00:38:49to show themselves to Özgür Çelik and the administration there. This is very
00:38:52clear. Politically, we need to interpret it this way. He says, "If we wanted,
00:38:56look, those five could be added to the other side." If they wanted,
00:39:0023 would pass, right? I mean, look,
00:39:04he says, "If these weren't invalid, and we gave them to the AK Party,
00:39:07of course, it would be 23 to 21, it would pass." This is a message
00:39:10given to Özgür Çelik and the administration, as far as I understand.
00:39:14They write it to the AK Party candidate, but they write it in a way that will be deemed invalid.
00:39:18It doesn't allow it to go to the target, but
00:39:22whatever discussion they have among themselves,
00:39:25your rhetoric and actions.
00:39:31It's a very clear message. This is very clear. Now, let's be realistic,
00:39:35Ebru Hanım, these five people don't give it mathematically.
00:39:38If they gave it, the AK Party would have won already. Exactly, they don't give it. But you
00:39:41can't make such an accusation against these people.
00:39:45Those five invalid ones, if they were for personal gain, then
00:39:48they would have given it to this side. No, then the newspaper reports
00:39:52are not very accurate. 5 CHP members voted for
00:39:55the AK Party. 6 CHP members
00:39:57didn't vote, they cast invalid votes. They gave a message, and the invalid ones, I think,
00:40:01were a message to the party administration, very clear.
00:40:04That's how it is in politics. Exactly. Then,
00:40:08of course, objections intensify there.
00:40:10The third round turns into such an incredible uproar. Then
00:40:14the 4th round begins. And
00:40:17then, with 19,
00:40:20this 22 to 18, the CHP.
00:40:24I calculate that people did this in the third round. The votes didn't result in any malice, no, they didn't even vote, they cast invalid votes. Let's correct that, so they gave a stance, yes, a message. Exactly.
00:40:50I wonder if it's with the newly elected deputy mayor or something else?
00:40:53Since we don't know what's inside them,
00:40:57it means there's a... but the AK Party says they'll go to court.
00:41:00Now, this will go to court, but in Bayrampaşa, it was a neck and neck race.
00:41:04There were a couple of other things there. Even if it goes to court, it won't change hands
00:41:08by court order. At most, they'll say it should be re-held.
00:41:11Even if it's re-held, as long as this will is here, the will of the people of Üsküdar is still
00:41:15with the CHP. After all, the council majority, and then they draw lots,
00:41:19they go to a draw. We need to consider the will of the voters too.
00:41:22It won't work by saying it passed to the party or something, because
00:41:26the difference is not 1, not 2. With how many votes
00:41:29did they win there? 22-18, meaning they won by 4
00:41:33votes. For example, let's say such a vote was considered valid,
00:41:36and it shifted to this side. Still, something changes because
00:41:40the election is not a one-vote difference. In election
00:41:44objections, judges pay close attention to that. For example, we discussed that
00:41:47in the nullification decision. How many
00:41:50people's will was invalidated? One, two, or three? You don't write it in the decision.
00:41:54Was it invalidated in the first round or in the second round?
00:41:58You don't write this. Who took bribes?
00:42:02Who went to the nightclub? You don't write these. You haven't
00:42:05written any names or numbers. You haven't
00:42:08converted it into a concrete document.
00:42:12What's the issue here? It was nullified. Okay, but who are these people? Who
00:42:15took the money? Hasan, Ahmet, or Zeynep?
00:42:19Where did they take it? How many people changing their votes
00:42:22would affect it? Now, in decisions related
00:42:25to politics, in party decisions, courts always
00:42:29act on the principle of whether it changes the general will or not.
00:42:32That's why we don't know what decision
00:42:35the judge will make regarding Üsküdar. But even if they make a decision,
00:42:39it will be a decision related to re-holding the election at most.
00:42:42Otherwise, it won't be a decision to change hands. How important this was
00:42:46in the period between 2019
00:42:49and 2024, it happened in the municipality
00:42:52that was supposed to serve, or was expected to serve,
00:42:55in the Menemen district of İzmir. Do you remember that, Ebru Baki?
00:42:59In Menemen, the Justice and Development Party's vote
00:43:02was low, and then the Good Party's, was it 3 or 5?
00:43:06I don't remember exactly, Professor. Now, Menemen also,
00:43:22came out equal. It was drawn by lot
00:43:25in the presence of the district governor and so on. The Republican People's Party came out. They objected again.
00:43:29The İzmir Deputy Governor came and said, "I will draw the bag." The Justice and
00:43:32Development Party came out. They gave it to the Justice and Development Party. That's what happened
00:43:35in Menemen. So these are very important developments.
00:43:39As you said, they also make us wonder about the IBB
00:43:43council and its aftermath. Of course,
00:43:46such an atmosphere is also created, such a message is also tried to be given.
00:43:50They are hearing the footsteps of that. In the discussion about immunity, for example,
00:43:53if such a thing happened in the reports, it would be a very strange situation,
00:43:57but if the metropolitan municipality, as Afşin Bey said earlier,
00:44:01if it escalates, if it receives such a penalty as a re-election,
00:44:04then the closest one to receive it. It will be very tense because it's very close.
00:44:08Üsküdar was also tense,
00:44:16that's why we wanted to open a topic for so much
00:44:19detail. The bill on a Turkey free of terrorism
00:44:22during the process is called the bill for national
00:44:26solidarity and social integration.
00:44:30AK Party Group Leader Abdullah Güler announced that
00:44:33they submitted the bill to parliament with nearly 360 signatures.
00:44:37Let's start from here. 360 signatures,
00:44:40which party, how did they support it, what happened,
00:44:44what will the new party do? The CHP signed, the New Path Party signed.
00:44:48HÜDA PAR signed. Of course, the People's Alliance
00:44:51signed it with all its members of parliament without interruption,
00:44:55and the first to sign were MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli and Parliament Speaker
00:44:59Nurman Kurtulmuş. It was submitted to the Parliament Speaker's Office. Submitted.
00:45:02Now, let's start from here.
00:45:06I want to leave my political interpretation
00:45:11of this for later at this stage, because there are very serious problems
00:45:14in terms of legal technique here. All my comments and
00:45:18explanations will be within the scope of law and in terms
00:45:21of law-making technique, under the heading of the Constitution
00:45:24and the Turkish Penal Code. I would like
00:45:27them to be evaluated as such, and I will express them
00:45:31in that way. So, political
00:45:33interpretations can be made in every way, and they should be made.
00:45:37Ultimately, the purpose of this law is to achieve
00:45:40political goals. Knowing this, I will leave
00:45:44this for later, because the legal part is, in my opinion, a disaster.
00:45:47That is, this law, in terms of
00:45:50legal technique, is a law that should not have been written,
00:45:54and its writing should not have been in this manner.
00:45:57I am frankly in disbelief as to how they wrote this.
00:46:01So, yes, politically you took
00:46:03a stance. From Apo,
00:46:06from the Dem Party, from the PKK, and so on, you opened such a topic.
00:46:10You defined a problem here, and you want to solve
00:46:14this problem. Naturally, you need a law to solve it.
00:46:17You are drafting this law. When
00:46:20you move this pen,
00:46:23when you use this ink, you establish
00:46:27legal concepts, reasoning, and analytical logic
00:46:30in such a way that you draw it like a pen,
00:46:34and people, without seeing any gaps,
00:46:38understand that your desired outcome will be achieved.
00:46:41But this law, this 12-article
00:46:44law brings contradictions
00:46:47over 12 articles. There are very
00:46:50serious doubts about how this law will be applied.
00:46:53This is very clear. Let's start, for example,
00:46:57let me say briefly. Let me say briefly. It's not very long anyway,
00:47:01but the public needs to know this, Ebru Hanım.
00:47:04Since something is intended to be done here,
00:47:08Abdullah Güler announced this. Abdullah Güler is also a
00:47:11lawyer. Fatih Yıldız is a lawyer. There's a former Justice Minister next to him
00:47:15in the frame now. Those names are announcing it, but
00:47:18I followed it with regret. Now, first
00:47:23of all, this sentence in Article 1, look, it says,
00:47:27"This purpose and scope, detected by security
00:47:31institutions and the confirmation of this detection by the National
00:47:34Security Council's decision published in the Official Gazette,"
00:47:38it says, "begins." This sentence, "Detection
00:47:41by security institutions." Now, a law
00:47:44should not be ambiguous. A law
00:47:47should be clear, open, and target-oriented.
00:47:50It should not accept any gaps. This law has a precedent,
00:47:54no, before that, it also says, "PKK KCK terrorist organization."
00:47:58Since it's technical, I'll skip that part. Weapons, all kinds of weapons, ammunition
00:48:02delivered
00:48:03by security
00:48:06The security institution, who is the security institution?
00:48:09It is detected by security institutions, then the decision
00:48:12is published in the Official Gazette. Who, and how
00:48:15do they detect this? What is the way and
00:48:18method of this detection? With what procedures and principles do they report
00:48:22this to the National Security Council? This is the first
00:48:26question mark. What kind of security council,
00:48:29what kind of detection? This is a separate situation. Can it
00:48:33have anything to do with monitoring? I'll come to the continuation now. The system is as
00:48:37follows, because the presidency, here the president has envisioned a system
00:48:40like this: the General Secretariat provides
00:48:43coordination. The security institution detects
00:48:47that weapons have been laid down and ammunition has been surrendered. It reports
00:48:50it to the NSC.
00:48:53The NSC publishes
00:48:57this situation in the Official Gazette,
00:49:00and the board, the board in Article 7,
00:49:03steps in and manages the process.
00:49:06They've built such a framework. So, the detection
00:49:09by security units, the announcement by the NSC,
00:49:13and the monitoring of the process by the board. This is the
00:49:16system, there's such a tripartite system. But while establishing
00:49:19this tripartite system, there are contradictions within itself.
00:49:23There are major contradictions. Now, in Article 3,
00:49:25it says, "The National"
00:49:29With the Security Council decision published in the official gazette,
00:49:33this Article 1, as we said, with its publication,
00:49:36requires aggravated life imprisonment
00:49:39for intentional murder and
00:49:42life imprisonment prior to 2005
00:49:45committed within the framework of terrorist organization activities.
00:49:48Now, first,
00:49:51intentional murder is separately stated as a clause,
00:49:54a heading, meaning that even if it's after 2005,
00:49:57intentional murder is not included in this by the army or police.
00:50:01Those who martyred and massacred civilians
00:50:04were covered, even if it was after 2005,
00:50:08that is, even if it was before or after 2005. Yes,
00:50:11it continues to state that offenses committed before
00:50:14the date of 2005 are to be considered. Look,
00:50:18offenses committed before 2005, 2004 was the date when the death penalty was abolished, and
00:50:30life imprisonment and aggravated life imprisonment sentences
00:50:34for offenses committed before 2005 are not included,
00:50:36except for intentional murder. Look,
00:50:39this is very important, intentional murder
00:50:43is excluded, regardless of when it was committed. Yes,
00:50:47before 2005 is excluded, after is excluded.
00:50:50Outside. Okay,
00:50:53but after
00:50:562005, except for intentional murder,
00:50:59life imprisonment and aggravated life imprisonment
00:51:03are covered by this law. Yes,
00:51:06except for murder. Sexual crimes
00:51:09such as rape are also separated here.
00:51:13There is nothing in this sentence about sexual crimes, but
00:51:16in the newspapers, let's leave sexual crimes aside.
00:51:19He took the officer
00:51:21hostage, held soldiers hostage in the mountains,
00:51:25deprived them of their liberty, blackmailed, demanded money
00:51:28and so on. All of these, drug
00:51:32trafficking, selling drugs, transporting drugs,
00:51:36drugs, already aggravated life imprisonment and life imprisonment are serious
00:51:39crimes. Now, for example,
00:51:43the terrorist organization selling drugs, manufacturing drugs,
00:51:47transferring drugs, all of these are outside the scope of this law if they are after 2005.
00:51:50So, there is an intent to kill there,
00:51:54right? Now, in the continuation, there is a situation
00:51:58regarding postponements and the decision to drop the charges,
00:52:01but look, I will tell you about the sloppy preparation from here.
00:52:05Pay close attention, it's very concrete. The parliament
00:52:08is a serious institution, it represents the legislative power.
00:52:12How can such a mistake be made? I don't understand,
00:52:14that is, these lawyers,
00:52:18I will talk about a very simple thing. He wrote Article 3,
00:52:21I read it four times, and I even thought I might have missed something, so I'll give it to my teacher to read.
00:52:25He wrote the first paragraph of Article 3,
00:52:29and then came to the second paragraph and said,
00:52:32"In accordance with the first paragraph, the right to appeal
00:52:35against the decision given by the public prosecutor."
00:52:39The word "public prosecutor" does not appear
00:52:42in the first paragraph. There is no public prosecutor
00:52:44in the first paragraph. The second paragraph says,
00:52:48"In accordance with the first paragraph, against the decision
00:52:52given by the public prosecutor." Excuse me, but
00:53:05Yes, the first paragraph is long. The public prosecutor is not mentioned there.
00:53:08Okay, but the second paragraph says that
00:53:12the decisions of the public prosecutor are mentioned above.
00:53:16The first paragraph says that the KCK
00:53:19and PKK will be liquidated, weapons will be laid down,
00:53:23this will be determined by the Security institutions,
00:53:26then the NSC decision will be published, then applications will begin within 6 months
00:53:30in the official gazette, for before and
00:53:33after 2005. Before and after,
00:53:37except for the crime of murder, and except for crimes committed
00:53:40before 2005, including those who received
00:53:43aggravated life imprisonment and life imprisonment, applications will be made within 6 months
00:53:47and a 5-10 year monitoring process
00:53:50will begin for convicts.
00:53:53Then it says that these can be objected to.
00:53:57Throughout the entire text of the law, it says "can be objected to" several times,
00:54:01but it doesn't state who can object. For these 12 articles,
00:54:04it doesn't say who can object. Will these people apply to the public prosecutor's office?
00:59:41A historical period is being written.
00:59:44This new framework law is in the process of a Turkey without terror. It includes a six-month
00:59:49period that does not cover
00:59:52offenses of murder committed before 2005. Here,
00:59:55we may see some releases
00:59:59and we will experience some non-prosecution
01:00:02processes. This is a framework law
01:00:06about its scope, who this framework covers,
01:00:09what happened, and how it will work.
01:00:13This bill was submitted to the Parliament Presidency.
01:00:16Tomorrow, it will come to the Justice Commission and is expected to quickly
01:00:20come to the General Assembly and become law. It was submitted to the Parliament
01:00:23Presidency with the signatures of 360 deputies.
01:00:25sunuldu. Özgür Özel'in açıklamaları var. İyi Parti Genel Başkanı
01:00:29Musavat Dervişoğlu'nun itirazları var ve eee Yeni Yol
01:00:33Partisi, Dem Parti, Hüdaper
01:00:36ve Cumhur Ittifakının kesintisiz
01:00:38milletvekillerinin imzasıyla sunulmuş bir çerçeve yasa.
01:00:42Bunun bu yasa teklifinin maddelerini anlamaya
01:00:45çalışıyoruz. Tabii Adalet komisyonu da. tartışılırken daha
01:00:48net eee göreceğiz, genel kurulda da gelip hızla
01:00:52yasalaşmasının beklendiğini meclis tatile girmeden önce
01:00:55biliyoruz, profesör doktor Mitat Baydur ve
01:00:59Afşi Natipoğlu ile birlikteyiz, ilk
01:01:02maddeleri, ilk fıkrayı dediniz, onu
01:01:04inceledik,
01:01:07eee önemli olan hususlar şu, onlara değinelim, bir
01:01:10çelişkiler var, ciddi çelişkiler var, bu arzu
01:01:14edilen sürecin yönetimine sekteye uğratacak. ilişkiler
01:01:17hani istiyorlar ya bu eee terörsüz Türkiye işini biz bu
01:01:21yasayla halledelim bir kere bu yasanın bir başlangıç yasası olduğu
01:01:24çok aşikar onun da sebebini söyleyeceğiz şimdi
01:01:28soruşturma ve kovuşturma evresini bu yasa
01:01:31çıktığında askıya alıyorlar yani bir kişi şu anda
01:01:34PKK sebebiyle işlediği suçlardan
01:01:37mahkemesi devam ediyorsa hakim uzarındaysa bunu askıya
01:01:41alıyorlar hı hı Savcı soruşturma aşamasındaysa onu da
01:01:45askıya alıyorlar ve bu eee delilleri diyor,
01:01:49dosyaları diyor, biz saklarız diyor, o
01:01:51saklama, eee, 15 yıllık işte 10 yıllık
01:01:55süreler kapsamındaki durumlarda
01:01:58eee,
01:02:00mahkeme nezdinde tutulur, daha sonra bunlarla ilgili
01:02:04muhtemelen düşme kararı verilecek, çünkü eee onunla
01:02:08ilgili de çok net bir şey yok açıkçası, yani şu anda devam
01:02:11eden soruşturma ve kovuşturmalar askıya alınıyor, ertelenir
01:02:15demek o, askıya alınıyor ve kendi iç.
01:03:00So there is no status, Öcalan
01:03:03does not have the right to benefit from this law, for now, he doesn't, but
01:03:07when we read it together with Mr. Bahçeli's statement yesterday, what does he say? Öcalan
01:03:10says, "hope for release," "Let Ahmet return home,
01:03:14Demirtaş go home to his family."
01:03:18Now, the situation of these three, Demirtaş,
01:03:20may fall under this law, or if there are other articles,
01:03:24it may not. He says it will, so let's separate that,
01:03:28but there is no removal of trustees here, nor is there
01:03:31a direct right to hope for Öcalan under this law. This means
01:03:35that other arrangements will be made later. This was asked to Abdullah Güler,
01:03:39the AK Party group chairman, and he said that
01:03:42it's not possible for this to end with this law. He also said that
01:03:45there is no need for a law for academics to meet with journalists;
01:03:49these can be done with an administrative regulation.
01:03:52So, he said that the meeting traffic might increase a bit,
01:03:56and academics can meet with journalists. But this is not related to the law;
01:03:59it's an administrative matter of the Ministry of Justice
01:04:03that this can be done with an administrative regulation.
01:04:06Here, there's a very important Article 7. Article 7
01:04:09is one of the most important articles here. Article 7
01:04:13says that a board will be established
01:04:16to monitor the implementation of the activities within the scope
01:04:19of this law. This board lists
01:04:23the President and so on. This board, it says,
01:04:27will monitor the postponement.
01:04:30This board will monitor it. What we understand from this article
01:04:33is this: The NSC will publish
01:04:36a decision in the official gazette
01:04:40stating that the PKK and KCK have been dissolved.
01:04:43Then the board will begin its work.
01:04:45Within 6 months, applications will come
01:04:49to the board within 6 months.
01:04:51These applications will be evaluated
01:04:55by the board. It is referred to
01:04:59as the "board"
01:05:07in the related name. So, evaluation,
01:05:11monitoring, coordination, and implementation. This is a
01:05:15sentence. With the monitoring board,
01:05:19it is written like this: "Following the publication of the law
01:05:22in the Official Gazette, under the chairmanship of the Vice President,
01:05:26Minister of Justice, Foreign Affairs, Interior, National Defense, Secretary General of the Presidency."
01:05:37This is both a monitoring board and it also says
01:05:40that it can establish sub-committees and so on. But this
01:05:43article is very contradictory. Look, it will also establish a monitoring board in the parliament.
01:05:47It says it will inform the parliament. Look,
01:05:49if you are going to do something, do it in a proper
01:05:53language. How will you implement this?
01:05:57Look, I will tell you that here. That is,
01:06:00it's very bad. How did a lawyer write this?
01:06:04I don't understand. Look, it says such a board has been established,
01:06:07okay? It says it will monitor it. Let's read this for a couple of paragraphs,
01:06:11because this is the core of the issue, and the problem will arise from here.
01:06:15It's going to the commission, so fix it in the commission.
01:06:19Okay, what is it? "Following the publication
01:06:22of the National Security Council decision mentioned in Article 1
01:06:26in the Official Gazette, in line with the purpose
01:06:30and scope of this law, periodic evaluations
01:06:33can be made by the board based on observation reports
01:06:37regarding the complete liquidation of the organization.
01:06:40If the board deems it necessary, requests can be made
01:06:43regarding judicial, administrative, and legal regulations."
01:06:46How is the process going? This board
01:06:50will monitor it. Yes, if necessary,
01:06:53legal support. It says a law needs to be enacted,
01:06:56a regulation is needed. Is this clear?
01:07:00Ministers, critical ministers, MIT Director, National Security Council Secretary General.
01:07:04Now we've come to a very important point. Listen carefully, citizens.
01:07:08Due to investigations and prosecutions, that is, investigations and
01:07:11prosecutions against PKK members, the deprivation of rights
01:07:14arising from these should be completely removed
01:07:18with all its consequences. From the Criminal Judgeship of Peace
01:07:21or the Court. The deprivation of rights arising from conviction
01:07:25sentences. By this deprivation of rights,
01:07:28I also mean political bans. The complete removal of all its consequences
01:07:31is requested by the board from the enforcement judge.
01:07:34That is, the lifting of the political ban
01:07:38on PKK members... This board requests this from the relevant authorities,
01:07:41but for 3 years there will be a political ban,
01:07:44okay, within those periods, but
01:07:48the board will send these
01:07:51as a package, as a list, to the relevant places.
01:07:54So, the board carries out the role of mediation
01:07:58here, but these people are politically banned for 3 years.
01:08:00I think
01:08:02they know the law very well here. Yes, regarding this issue,
01:08:05there is also
01:08:09the following: For these
01:08:11decisions, for postponement decisions given as 5 years,
01:08:152 years must have passed from the date. For postponement decisions given as 10 years,
01:08:183 years must have passed. That is, a 5-year postponement decision,
01:08:22and for sentences of 10 years or more, there is a 2-year political
01:08:25ban, and for sentences of 15 years or more,
01:08:28there is a 3-year political ban.
01:08:32The board requests the lifting of these bans
01:08:35from the relevant authorities once these periods have passed. Yes, I understood that.
01:08:38Here is another point. Look, Article 9.
01:08:43I'll mention this Article 9 and then summarize and leave it to my teacher.
01:08:46Okay, now in Article 9, it says,
01:08:49"Look at the contradictions. The decision of the National Security Council,
01:08:52published in the official gazette, within 6 months,
01:08:56is applied to those who wish to benefit from the provisions
01:09:00of this law by notifying
01:09:02the public prosecutor's offices in their locations
01:09:05and the institutions assigned by the board in writing."
01:09:08Now, a judiciary. Investigation and prosecution
01:09:13are judicial activities. The judiciary,
01:09:17as defined in the Constitution as legislative,
01:09:20executive, and judicial, is a separate power.
01:09:23Okay. The judiciary has its own organization,
01:09:27its own procedures and principles. Okay. Now,
01:09:30as a PKK militant, I will apply.
01:09:34I will say that I want to benefit from this law.
01:09:36Both for my investigation and prosecution to be dropped,
01:09:40I will be able to go to the chief prosecutor's offices. And if the board wishes,
01:09:43I will be able to apply to any administrative
01:09:46organization by assigning an administrative
01:09:49officer. They are putting
01:09:52the chief prosecutor's office and an administrative
01:09:56organization at the same level. That is, look,
01:09:59for example, I said that I came to Ağrı.
01:10:03I was a PKK militant settled on Mount Ağrı.
01:10:05I was a PKK terrorist. A PKK terrorist
01:10:09in Hakkari. They notify the institutions in writing.
01:10:42Okay, those notifications. But look,
01:10:46now, this
01:10:48is a judicial institution. You're dropping the investigation,
01:10:52you're dropping the prosecution, but these are already the difficulties.
01:10:56That's why if you write it, it becomes difficult. You wrote it, and it became difficult.
01:11:00Let the person go and apply to the public prosecutor's office. Besides,
01:11:03how can you transfer the prosecutor's duty to a commission? Can a judicial duty be transferred?
01:11:07This article is unconstitutional. You say let the prosecutor make the decision.
01:11:11Okay. Let me finish by saying that the board monitors and the prosecutor makes the decision.
01:11:14Look, this law,
01:11:17as it stands, cannot be implemented by anyone.
01:11:21Why? It will get mixed up.
01:11:23Now, it will include before 2005. Look, I am a terrorist.
01:11:27How will I enter the country from abroad? Is there such a thing?
01:11:30No, sir. I am a terrorist
01:11:33on the Iraqi side of Hakkari. My code name is
01:11:36Jipik. I am a terrorist with the code name Jipik.
01:11:40I have no name, no reputation. Come to the border.
01:11:43Who will take me? Who will take me here? Where is this?
01:11:47Is this terrorist living in Kütahya or Çankırı?
01:11:51Where does he live? You will apply to the law enforcement.
01:11:54I'm in Syria, I'm in Iran.
01:11:56I came. I'm a PKK terrorist
01:11:59in Iran. I'm a PKK terrorist in Syria. Where will I come from?
01:12:03The man says to apply to the commission,
01:12:06to the district governor's office. How will I cross the border?
01:12:10There is no regulation about crossing the border
01:12:13here. Look, there is not a single word
01:12:17about crossing the border. Are these PKK terrorists
01:12:20inside or outside our borders? For example, today
01:12:24in the newspapers, they say that these
01:12:27were probably determined because 3-4 thousand PKK terrorists
01:12:30will be released. So, they are in our prisons.
01:12:34Yes, Mr. Baki,
01:12:38are they not also released? Are they not also
01:12:40known that they will come? Those in Europe have come.
01:12:44Look, those in Europe have come.
01:12:48If there is a warrant for their arrest, then what?
01:12:51Don't we have a list already? You don't have it for all of them.
01:12:57You're conducting an investigation against someone who is a fugitive with a code name,
01:13:01but there are searches, there are searches.
01:13:04There are those who fall into these crimes, and those who don't.
01:13:08Are all of them not known already? There are also those who escaped.
01:13:12It's not possible to know all of them. You don't know where these people are,
01:13:15you don't know where they will come from. You told this person to come
01:13:18and apply to the district governor's office. Is this a land deed you're giving?
01:13:22Is this a cadastral job? How will this person come down from the mountain physically?
01:13:31You're writing all this, you would say for those who come from abroad
01:13:35and apply, for example, there's no one
01:13:39who can answer this. For those who come from abroad
01:13:42to apply, you would say something about
01:13:45border police stations or whatever. This person lives in the mountains.
01:13:49How will this person actually come from the mountains?
01:13:52Is there a warrant
01:13:55for his arrest or not? Do you know his name or not?
01:13:58With a fake ID or a real ID? Look, also, I mean, let's just
01:14:01give numbers specific to Turkey. What's happening outside?
01:14:05You brought up so many issues. For example, this sentence, look,
01:14:08this sentence cannot be accepted offhand. You finish, and I'll say something else.
01:14:12Sir, excuse me for interrupting, but we had to do it.
01:14:15Is there such a sentence, for God's sake? It says that the Security
01:14:19institutions will determine and confirm that the terrorist organization has ceased
01:14:22all its activities and surrendered all
01:14:26weapons and ammunition under its control.
01:14:29Yes, it is completely
01:14:32in the first article. The first
01:14:35article, the first article,
01:14:38says that the PKK will be disbanded, weapons will be laid down.
01:14:41This is what is meant by it, that is,
01:14:45it talks about the PKK's weapons.
01:14:48What about the PKK's assets,
01:14:51money? What will happen to these?
01:14:55He says there's nothing in that law. There's not a single small
01:14:58sentence about money. Movable, immovable property, etc.
01:15:02Let's say you included movable property in ammunition. Huh?
01:15:05Their money in banks around the world.
01:15:09This terrorist organization has caused us 2.3 trillion dollars in damage.
01:15:132.3 trillion dollars.
01:15:16In return, not a single compensation is received.
01:15:19There is no regulation regarding their assets. I don't know
01:15:22how this law will be implemented.
01:15:35Please make a general evaluation, and then I will ask my questions. Okay, now,
01:15:39there's something here. We tolerate it in a way,
01:15:42we call it a framework law, but
01:15:46it needs a lot of regulations.
01:15:49For example, when someone dies, for example, someone coming from abroad,
01:15:52there's a drug and money laundering
01:15:56traffic. Placing this only in the category
01:15:59of regulation is a bit annoying. Now, when you look at it,
01:16:03it's only a few pages, like 3-4 pages, consisting of 12 articles.
01:16:07But even in that, I agree with Mr. Hafşin, there are some
01:16:11things like this. For example, it says that all weapons, materials,
01:16:14and ammunition brought within the framework of ammunition and declared ammunition
01:16:18will be registered. What if they don't declare,
01:16:21like a tax declaration? What if they declare incompletely?
01:16:25The word "declare" is a word that will dilute this matter.
01:16:28The word "declare." What if they don't declare?
01:16:31Will we say, "Oh well"? For example, there's something like this.
01:16:35Or a correct declaration. On the other hand, for example,
01:16:38Mr. Afşin, perhaps it escaped his attention. ran away, two
01:16:41and, uh, there are 3-year delays, right? Uh, for example, a political
01:16:45ban. It says it's not 10 years, but 15 years.
01:16:49In both cases, it's a fixed 15 years. If it's 15 years or less, it's a two-year
01:16:52delay. If it's 15 years or more.
01:17:04It says that the weapons brought in will be processed into the system. It's a shame,
01:17:08isn't it? I mean, is this something to be written? Of course, it will be processed into the system. Now, you
01:17:12are saying that you will conduct security investigations for academics. They say that the national
01:17:16intelligence is not enough, and they will also ask the police.
01:17:19And it's retroactive, perhaps even for
01:17:22deleted criminal records. Even a criminal record.
01:17:25Now you're going to admit an academic to the university, and you're asking so many questions about the academic.
01:17:29Here you're saying, "Uh, just don't process it into the system."
01:17:33Can such a thing happen? Of course, you will
01:17:35process it into the system. So, now, you'll admit them to the university,
01:17:38the research assistant.
01:17:42You'll conduct a 15-year, 20-year, whatever, investigation into their family retroactively.
01:17:46That won't be enough, you'll ask the national intelligence, or you'll ask the national intelligence
01:17:49and then ask the police again. You're writing
01:17:52this, saying, "We'll also process this into the system."
01:17:56"You are this state, of course, you will process it. Now, there are 3900
01:17:59releases, the issue of releases. These are actually the figures given by the Green Party,
01:18:03not figures I estimated myself."
01:18:07Approximately 75 thousand investigations will
01:18:10be completed. It's currently at the prosecutor's stage. How many do you say?
01:18:1375 thousand. 40. 40,000 prosecutions
01:18:17will be completed. At the court stage. At the court stage, sir, these are
01:18:2175,000. 75,000 investigations,
01:18:2440,000 prosecutions, and 3009 releases. These are very large
01:18:28numbers. And now, when you look, it's not 2-3 releases, right? Of course, now,
01:18:31for example, what are you doing with this person? The release of the PKK member is expected. And
01:18:35now you're saying this is after 2005. There's no intentional
01:18:38killing that happened after 2005. And the person just came,
01:18:42so we'll finish this eventually. We're talking about a Turkey without terrorism.
01:18:45These are, well, these are remorseful people after all.
01:18:48It says, "We will process this into the system," right? You're saying, "We're including it in the system." The trustee in Şişli
01:18:52continues, within the framework of the urban
01:18:54renewal. Isn't this a contradiction? A decision to protect me,
01:18:58right? So, if you're setting a new beginning here, uh, of course, the trustee in Şişli
01:19:02continues. So, there are such things, there are such oddities.
01:19:06It continues in Esenyurt as well. Now, of course, for example, Afşin Bey just
01:19:09read it. There's the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Interior, the Minister of National Defense.
01:19:12There's the Secretary General of the Presidency, there's the Head of MIT, there's the National
01:19:16Security. It's supposed to be like that. So, the ministers and
01:19:19others in the National Security Council, the presidents and so on, are there. Now,
01:19:23these people will probably make updates according to the situation. Observation, I mean,
01:19:27there are also a couple of other ministers in the parliament, I mean,
01:19:30there are ministers, there are ministers, they will probably
01:19:33say to the courts, "This is a good development, it's good."
01:19:37When they say these can also be included, then the court has
01:19:40to comply. The Minister of Justice is already inside, I mean.
01:19:43Ultimately, I mean, ultimately, actually, this could
01:19:47lead to a constitutional debate.
01:19:51a directive to the courts. Of course, that's how it's understood. There is such
01:19:54a situation. In a way, it's also a clear directive to the court. I mean,
01:19:58it will interfere with the judiciary, of course.
01:20:01It's doing something now, but here, the main political point, legally,
01:20:05Afşin Bey mentioned it, so I won't repeat the technical stuff. I just took a couple of notes,
01:20:08I'll just say that, uh, it was good and productive.
01:20:11There are things now. This actually started
01:20:15with something like this, we talked about it a lot in the last two years. This,
01:20:18uh, you know, with Bahçeli's visit
01:20:22to the Parliament two years ago, this team, this team
01:20:25started with a handshake, and then a paradigm word came out, saying that a new
01:20:29paradigm, the Republic paradigm, is changing and so on. Now, actually, here
01:20:33we are stuck in Kandil like this, the terrorists in Turkey.
01:20:36How many PKK members are left? Süleyman
01:20:40Soylu used to say 80 people were left, you know, he knew everything down to their shoelaces.
01:20:43This is not about the PKK, because here it says, look, in article 1, PKK,
01:20:46article 1, PKK, KCK, uh, the terrorist
01:20:50organization and all related
01:20:53formations' actual existence has ceased,
01:20:56and the delivery of weapons and ammunition has been
01:21:00determined and confirmed by the Security Council. KCK is also there.
01:21:03When you say KCK, this is not just blood.
01:21:07Uh, Northern Iraq, Iran, Pejak, Syria, right?
01:21:11Syrian democratic, it covers the entire region. Now,
01:21:14from the moment it covers the region, we also need
01:21:17to do a risk analysis of this. Now, I spoke completely legally, for example,
01:21:21a foreign policy and political analysis of this also needs
01:21:24to be done. This is currently, for example, there's also a thing now,
01:21:28let me tell you this. For example, it gives us a hint
01:21:31that the leader of the terrorist organization, uh, says
01:21:35it's at least as old as the republic. You say, "What kind of a thing
01:21:39is this? I mean, how important is it?" It's very
01:21:43important, but you should think of it like this: it's at least as important
01:21:46as the republic, at least as important as the republic. What does that mean?
01:21:50It means that even the republic is less important next to it. It's so
01:21:54important that even the republic is less important next to it. Now, what are you trying to do?
01:21:57I mean, now there is a, okay, there is a framework
01:22:01law here, and there will be regulations regarding this,
01:22:04but its manifestations
01:22:07in the region, its development dynamics, new
01:22:11anticipated or unanticipated parameters come
01:22:13into play. As Bahçeli said, in our region,
01:22:17there will be so many changes that God protect Turkey.
01:22:21As he said, will we move towards "Oh, God protect Turkey"?
01:22:25These need to be looked at. For example, today, it wasn't discussed at all. I mean, we didn't discuss
01:22:28it at all at this table today. I don't know if it will be discussed tonight or tomorrow. For example,
01:22:32there are very important developments in Syria. In Syria, for example.
01:22:35they met with the Syrian Democratic Forces.
01:22:56So, in Syria, there were four brigades. In a way,
01:23:00by abandoning a federal constitution, they are trying to achieve
01:23:03a composition more like a type of integration,
01:23:06especially under the guise of an integration,
01:23:10in a way that will reassure Turkey.
01:23:13Uh, now, in Iraq, there are Barzani and
01:23:17Talabani. So, Turkey is also there.
01:23:34But now, what will happen in Syria after this?
01:23:37If we look at the possible developments coming from the region,
01:23:40some of the armed groups and manpower are moving towards Iran, towards Pejak.
01:23:43Now, for example, there is a new search for reconciliation with Iran.
01:23:47Perhaps 6 months later, perhaps a year later,
01:23:58this time, who can guarantee that the Pejak
01:24:01in Iran, under the umbrella of the Pejak
01:24:05framework, with these developments, the weapons, ammunition, equipment,
01:24:08and forces gathered there will not rise up against
01:24:11the Iranian government with the United States? If they do rise up,
01:24:15what about the first implications of this in Syria,
01:24:18Iraq, and Turkey? Have these risk analyses been done? These are very,
01:24:22very, very important issues, because, because
01:24:25if Syria is only
01:24:28what we thought the US Ambassador to Ankara
01:24:31was, but it didn't stop there, and Tom
01:24:34Barack, the US Special Representative for Syria and Iraq,
01:24:38spoke of a constitutional monarchy, a benevolent
01:24:41monarchy, and in a conjuncture
01:24:44where he said we would one day see Israel and Turkey
01:24:47extending from the Caspian to the Mediterranean,
01:24:50and in a conjuncture where the US
01:24:53doesn't allow Turkey to fully control the Kurds
01:24:56in Syria, nor does it allow Israel to fully
01:25:00control them, uh, without
01:25:02securing this for either of them, are the foundations being laid
01:25:06for their joint presence in that
01:25:09region for the future? These questions need to be asked.
01:25:13But while we assume this, actually,
01:25:17uh, if some developments go against Israel
01:25:20and the US, how will the entire US and Israeli line
01:25:24react, what will the developments be? Now, all these
01:25:28risk analyses need to be done, because when it says KCK,
01:25:32it's not just the PKK here, but we need to talk about
01:25:35all of Syria, Iran, Iraq, everything.
01:25:39And the strongest places are the Syrian Democratic Forces. Now, for example, there's another development
01:25:43with the Syrian Democratic Forces. They are moving towards a political party formation process
01:25:46with the new analysis. Now they will form a party.
01:25:50"Now, this party, like we say, 'I became a Turkey party,' and so on, we used to always
01:25:53talk about the HDP like that, for example. 'Okay, but you always talk
01:25:57about terrorism, PKK, whatever.' You're talking about a new
01:26:01constitution, uh, you know, you're talking about
01:26:05Kurds' right to vote, right to be elected, language rights.
01:26:08Doesn't Turkey have other problems in education, health?
01:26:12Even if you become a Turkey party, Turkey has a year's worth of problems,' we used to say. Now, for example, their
01:26:15Syrianization there, like a..."
01:26:58Where will they be together? Are these important?
01:27:02Yes, they are important. Wait a minute, now it doesn't just end with Syria-Iraq. We haven't even gotten
01:27:06to Europe yet. We, for example, objected to Sweden and
01:27:09Finland's thing, right? To their NATO membership. Wait a minute,
01:27:12NATO, okay, okay, we'll say yes, we'll take you into NATO, but you sit there all evening
01:27:16and you feed PKK members, you turn a blind eye to PKK members.
01:27:20We resisted for 3-5 months, then we had to accept it. So what will happen
01:27:23now? Now, for example, this was said a lot, discussed a lot.
01:27:27Public education associations, public education centers, press
01:27:30agencies, advertising agencies, political
01:27:33units, some program things, activities,
01:27:37with folkloric and cultural associations, there are nearly 900
01:27:40public and semi-public associations and activities
01:27:44of the PKK in Europe. Nearly 900. All of these, I mean.
01:27:48will happen. Now, one needs to approach this with great suspicion.
01:27:58It was just said, what about drug trafficking? Billions of dollars are being talked about. This organization
01:28:02finances itself from there. The organization will be gone, it says.
01:28:06The law says so. Well, of course, how much will be left? How much
01:28:09will be left, I mean, how much will not be left?
01:28:13These, these are very important. The first article says
01:28:17the complete end of the organization. Here,
01:28:20look,
01:28:23uh, as you read, something new comes out. As you read, something new comes out. Now,
01:28:27I have to point out 4-5 more important legal contradictions, first of all.
01:28:30"No matter where you go in the world, Argentina, South Korea,
01:28:34Japan, Kuala Lumpur, wherever you go, there is
01:28:38one principle. It is very important.
01:28:41The generality of laws. Laws cannot be enacted
01:28:45specifically for individuals or specific events.
01:28:49You cannot enact a law targeting a specific
01:28:52group. The Constitutional Court and the European Court
01:28:56of Human Rights have consistent
01:28:59rulings, thousands of rulings, look.
01:29:02I'm not saying tens or hundreds, but thousands of rulings.
01:29:04For example, what do we mean?
01:29:08It excludes intentional homicide, for example,
01:29:12attempted murder. If you attempt to murder a police officer,
01:29:15soldier, or civilian as a member of the PKK,
01:29:19you don't get punished according to this law.
01:29:22If you're not a PKK member, but a member
01:29:26of any gang or individually, outside
01:29:30of any gang... if you sell
01:29:40it, you fall within this law, especially for after 2005,
01:29:44or if you trade
01:29:46it. And there's no aggravated life imprisonment for them anyway.
01:29:50Apart from this, if you
01:29:53sell it, you remain outside this law. This
01:29:56is contrary to the principle of the generality of laws. If you
01:29:59apply this way.
01:30:17You are saying that this law, in the scope of its objectives and activities, states that individuals who carry out the given duties
01:30:20will not incur legal, administrative, or criminal
01:30:23liability due to these duties. This is a very serious
01:30:27article. Who are the "s"
01:30:31in this article? How and within what scope can you
01:30:34exempt these individuals? For example, as members of parliament, they
01:30:38signed it. A deputy has immunity, legislative power.
01:30:42If irregular and illegal
01:30:44actions are taken when applying this law, oh,
01:30:48there's a dossier. Hmm. Look, the person brought
01:30:51assets, brought goods. These goods
01:30:54were lost, hmm,
01:30:57not registered. They said five to the treasury, but three entered.
01:31:01Two didn't enter. And,
01:31:04look what it says: "Individuals who perform their duties within
01:31:08its scope will not incur legal, administrative, or criminal liability
01:31:11due to these duties." You are exempting this person from punishment.
01:31:15This is legally unacceptable. How did I understand this, you ask?
01:31:19You understood it that way, but the law doesn't work that way. It doesn't work the way you understood it.
01:31:23This draft, I mean, the people who prepared and signed this draft,
01:31:26I understood it as giving them legal immunity. I have a law education.
01:31:29My normal... "I have a responsibility to think like
01:31:33an ordinary citizen in order to explain it to the citizen. Please say that again,
01:31:36let's mention that too. I ask you.
01:31:39Here, there is an article
01:31:43that states that those who do this work and perform their duties
01:31:46while doing these tasks,
01:31:49any illegality or lawlessness
01:31:53they produce will be pardoned
01:31:56from the start. And an example
01:31:59of this being written is that no lawsuit can be filed
01:32:02against these individuals in the future.
01:32:06For example, this person is given
01:32:09a duty and receives the goods, okay,
01:32:13okay. They take the weapons. Maybe the person brought jewelry,
01:32:16because it says assets here, for example, they brought goods, assets,
01:32:20or they brought weapons, ammunition,
01:32:23they counted them. They brought drugs, they brought
01:32:26and brought more, they brought pills, okay. They took
01:32:28these. Okay, write 5.
01:32:33They took 10, and put five
01:32:36aside. In how many drug cases in Turkey
01:32:39are police officers involved? Let them look at those judicial
01:32:43custody files. How many times have you reported on it here?
01:32:46Yes. They said five, took ten, wrote down five, and put
01:32:50five aside. How will you prosecute this person according to this article?
01:32:53We also reported on mole news. Article 10, paragraph 2.
01:32:57I hadn't understood it that way.
01:33:00But you interpret it this way, there is a literal interpretation
01:33:03of the law, there is a teleological interpretation.
01:33:06You understand it this way when you look at it literally,
01:33:09but when you delve into it, something completely different emerges.
01:33:13You say, within the scope of KCK,
01:33:16I even pardon aggravated life imprisonment after 2005.
01:33:20I commit drug offenses, I don't know,
01:33:24hostage-taking, blackmail, etc.,
01:33:26as a member of a terrorist organization within
01:33:29the PKK. I am pardoned. Ahmet, who shares my cell,
01:33:33is not pardoned because he committed the same activities
01:33:36in another terrorist organization.
01:33:40Both are citizens of the Republic of Turkey. Yes, only the PKK KCK
01:33:44terrorist organization, the other. Article 10 of the Constitution is the principle
01:33:47of equality. It's a universal rule of law, the principle
01:33:50of the generality of laws. How will you achieve social peace
01:33:54this way? Is it only the PKK and
01:33:58KCK members and Fetö who commit crimes, who make temporary
01:34:01movements in this country? What should they do? I mean, the issue is not just
01:34:05Fetö. There's Fetö, there's Casper's
01:34:08gang. Should they pardon them too? They're committing the same crime.
01:34:12I don't know, there are Daltons too. They're committing the same crime. Leave
01:34:15the gang member, individually, aren't I extorting
01:34:19someone, brother? Am I not stabbing
01:34:23someone? Am I not attempting to murder? Aren't three people getting together to produce
01:34:26and sell drugs? Aren't these crimes? The most important thing is, the issue
01:34:30doesn't start and end with Fetö. That's a completely
01:34:33different matter anyway. Criminal lawyers have published
01:34:36opinions regarding the European Court of Human Rights.
01:34:40No one pays attention to that. And Fetö is also a terrorist organization
01:34:43in this sense.
01:34:48Is it the only terrorist organization in Turkey? Well, they say
01:34:52the other day, yes, uh, what, professor, are we going to
01:34:55defend them now? I mean, are we defending the PKK?
01:34:57I mean, that's not how you look at it. You
01:35:01can't look at it that way. I mean, when I say "you," I mean all of us
01:35:04in the parliament. You should be odorless,
01:35:07colorless, and indistinguishable. You need to be objective.
01:35:10You need to look at the issue this way.
01:35:14You
01:35:25are clearly making trouble here again. Then you postpone his sentence
01:35:29for 10 years, postpone the execution
01:35:31for 10 years. You say, "I will monitor you for 10 years." After 3 years,
01:35:35you lift his political ban. Imagine, I become a Member of Parliament,
01:35:38professor. My political ban is lifted, and at the same time, I am being
01:35:42monitored.
01:35:44The parliament
01:35:53also monitors it. So, there is such a thing. I am a member of parliament, and the parliament also monitors whether I am doing this work.
01:35:57Yes, I can apply to a vice president's
01:35:59coordination office.
01:36:02At the same time, if another administrative commission is established with equal status
01:36:06to the public prosecutor, I can also apply to that. You see, in the judiciary,
01:36:09let me tell you something: the three of us
01:36:12here, if we wanted to, we could file an inheritance lawsuit,
01:36:16we could also file a compensation lawsuit,
01:36:19we could also file a divorce lawsuit, but we cannot file a criminal lawsuit,
01:36:23do you know why? Only prosecutors
01:36:26can file criminal lawsuits on behalf of the public. You can file a criminal complaint,
01:36:30the person who will decide whether it turns into a criminal lawsuit
01:36:34is the public prosecutor. This is what you call an indictment.
01:36:37You can file any private lawsuit you want, no one can interfere.
01:36:40You win or lose, that's a different matter. But you cannot
01:36:44file a criminal lawsuit against me. You can only
01:36:48complain about me. The public prosecutor makes the decision. But you, as
01:36:51a board, in the commission you will establish, you can delegate the authority
01:36:55of the public prosecutor to another commission and make it equal.
01:36:58These will harm us, our principle of a state of law. One day they will say, "Look,
01:37:02you did these things back then, now do these things." This
01:37:06won't work. If you are doing something, do it properly,
01:37:09in accordance with logic and law. You cannot manage this process with this document.
01:37:12I'm saying it clearly, there will be deficiencies. The commission
01:37:15will also correct this. You haven't written 'public prosecutor'.
01:37:19You are giving a duty to the public prosecutor under something you haven't written. How can you give
01:37:22a duty to something you haven't written? There are too many
01:37:25contradictions, too many. Well, now, the main point, please. No, within this framework,
01:37:29for example, Selahattin Demirtaş and others will be released from prison. It is also
01:37:32said that those on trial in the Kobani case will be released,
01:37:35but the European Court of Human Rights already...
01:37:38I mean, there's no quantity, there's quality
01:37:41in us. So, universal norms of law are not applied, right?
01:37:45There's already a decision by the European Court of Human Rights. So, there's
01:37:49such
01:37:52a strange situation. Now, these
01:37:55political bans were important, and it's an important topic.
01:37:58Uh, those sentenced to under 15 years get 2 years,
01:38:02and those sentenced to over 15 years, or who received a verdict, get a 3-year political ban.
01:38:06But uh, this
01:38:08political ban, but on the other hand, these people's political ban
01:38:12ends after 3 years, but... Uh, those sentenced to under 15 years
01:38:15get 5 years, and those sentenced to over 15 years
01:38:19will be monitored for 10 years. So, their political
01:38:21ban ends, but their monitoring will continue for 10 years. There is such a contradiction.
01:38:25Uh, it says so, but it's not meant to be monitored for 10 years or 5 years
01:38:29until the very end. There is a board here
01:38:32that includes the ministries we listed. If this board gives its opinion,
01:38:36a new regulation will be made for them, it seems. It's open-ended,
01:38:39I mean, it's open-ended, but currently, they are seen
01:38:43as being monitored for 10 years. And under 15 years...
01:38:51This is a framework law. Now, let's say this is a framework law. We need to look
01:38:54at the regulations under this framework law. "Hmm,
01:38:57yes. It will give its main character and spirit.
01:39:01What will happen? The framework is 12 articles.
01:39:05There's a thing, you know, the famous saying from the Mecelle: "Procedure precedes substance."
01:39:09So, the procedure is very wrong, you know? I mean, for example, this was never
01:39:12sufficiently discussed in public in Turkey. In fact, I told Afşin Bey
01:39:16before the program. I mean,
01:39:19social consent was not produced. Let's even forget that. "We don't need social consent,
01:39:23we'll do it," it was said. But on this side,
01:39:26600 elected members of parliament, when it comes to the point,
01:39:30you say that there are deputies elected by the people there,
01:39:34so the will of the nation is reflected there.
01:39:37592 or three people know that members of parliament
01:39:40signed something they didn't read. That's
01:39:43what's being said. Four people know, they themselves
01:39:46say it, it's not a secret. I mean, if a statement is correct,
01:39:50then it's true, I mean, you have to believe that they're telling the truth. They say, "We didn't read it." You sign something
01:39:54you didn't read.
01:39:57was reflected there, I mean, the real representatives
01:40:01of the nation were there. I mean,
01:40:04that's where the will of the nation
01:40:06is truly reflected. And
01:40:10what will happen? They don't even know. Now, there's a procedural
01:40:13error here, a procedural error. It says that when the procedure is completely wrong,
01:40:17one doesn't even want to get into the essence. I mean, "We'll open the envelope,
01:40:20we'll start working." It says it was submitted to the Parliament Speaker's Office.
01:40:24Therefore, we didn't have a chance to evaluate it after it was submitted...
01:40:27"We saw it," he says. He even gave all the burden,
01:40:30all the responsibility to the board. I mean,
01:40:34uh, excuse me, but at least give it a name. Can a board be just called "board"?
01:40:38I mean, say "follow-up board," "monitoring board," I don't know,
01:40:42"executive board." It says "monitoring board." No, it's just "board." How can I distinguish
01:40:46a monitoring board? That's a separate issue. The person just said "board." Look, in the parliament too, there is a monitoring board, a board
01:40:50consisting of the Secretary General of the Presidency.
01:40:53Just give it a name, brother. I mean, this is
01:40:57so much. "You are starting a process that you claim will bring
01:41:00prosperity to the country. From a lawyer's
01:41:03perspective, I mean, what kind of a board is this? I mean,
01:41:07the board that will include the Vice President,
01:41:11the ministers, the National Security uh, the Secretary General of the Presidency,
01:41:14and the Head of MIT. And there's also a board in the parliament.
01:41:18If they hadn't hidden this law
01:41:22from people, if they hadn't hidden
01:41:25this law from people."
01:41:36Because it was hidden from the public, it's so contradictory
01:41:39and incomplete. Normally, you give it to groups,
01:41:43and say, "Give your opinions within a week," right, professor? And then everyone there
01:41:47has their lawyers. Among 600 members of parliament, 120.
01:41:50There are many lawyers, of course. For example, they want them, they want them.
01:41:53We live in this country and we want to die here. For example, what
01:41:57can I say? For me, it's the same for you. For example, in my field, Ebru
01:42:01Baki is the same. I sit for 50 pages, for example, I prepare
01:42:04a detailed report, a business and external analysis, and send it. Now, it's such a thing that
01:42:08I inevitably want to touch upon two issues. One needs to know history.
01:42:12Now, here, for example, you are interested in the Mosul issue. And then
01:42:15you see that a man named Major Noel has come there and is throwing javelins.
01:42:18Intelligence, that is, intelligence comes from there.
01:42:22That is, Central Intelligence Service, for example,
01:42:26the CIA. Now, in Turkey, intelligence, that is, the National Intelligence
01:42:29Organization, we have called it intelligence, but in essence, it is a place of reason,
01:42:33a place of reasoning, mind games.
01:42:37Mind games need to be supported very much, and
01:42:40blood needs to come from outside. It should not be confined only to the inside.
01:42:43Now, here, for example, what happened? They started the Nestorian rebellion.
01:42:47While the Ottoman Empire was dealing with the Nestorian rebellion, that Mosul
01:42:50issue, that is, the Republic after the Ottoman Empire, during that process,
01:42:53while transitioning to the Republic, the Nestorian rebellion...
01:42:57While trying to suppress it, Mosul was lost. Now,
01:43:01it's such a thing that, for example, if something happens between Iran
01:43:04and America within a year or a year and a half, if an formation that is against
01:43:08Turkey shows signs of spreading to the region
01:43:11within the framework of Pejak and then
01:43:14infects Syria first and then Turkey,
01:43:17we are saying all these things so that they don't collapse like a house of cards.
01:43:21All necessary measures must be taken,
01:43:24and it is not shameful to ask the nation about this.
01:43:27"That is, for example,
01:43:30while the war continues, the parliament is open, right? That is,
01:43:34according to the figures given by Ferhoz Ahmet, there are 120 opposition deputies
01:43:38of Mustafa Kemal. They are criticizing him harshly. There are
01:43:41120 opposition deputies. They will later express themselves, you know, in the
01:43:45Progressive Republican Party. Despite that, the parliament is open, the parliament is speaking,
01:43:49discussing. So, bring it to the parliament,
01:43:52let's discuss it. Why are you hiding it? What's in it?
01:43:55That is, the person signs it, okay, yes." The draft
01:43:58law is signed, it will come to the parliament, and it will probably be voted on Sunday
01:44:02in the parliament. He doesn't know the content. Then
01:44:05he goes on vacation. Even during this war, everyone knew everything, right?
01:44:08They were discussing. Selahattin Demirtaş, whom we know by touch,
01:44:12and those from the Kobane case may be released.
01:44:15It is stated that 2-3 people may be released. We don't know how many people
01:44:19will come, how many terrorists will come. Uh,
01:44:22such figures are given. It is reported
01:44:25that 3-4000 PKK members may be released. Uh, two boards
01:44:29will monitor. It was presented with 360 deputies. There will be political
01:44:32bans, 2 to 3 years, 5 and 10 years
01:44:35they will be monitored. MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli says,
01:44:38"Let this signature of mine
01:44:42be auspicious." He says that this process
01:44:46means the registration of a thousand years of brotherhood, and he states that everyone, regardless of their identity
01:44:50and language, benefited from this development.
01:44:53He says that in addition to 86 million citizens, the peoples of the Middle East
01:44:57will also win. He also states that
01:45:00it will contribute to external development and
01:45:03global and regional peace. Now, we
01:45:06have made these legal interpretations as a historical note. We left
01:45:10it there. Whoever wants to take it, takes it. Now, if we close this
01:45:13without saying this sentence, history will
01:45:17judge us. Were you going to say that Osman Kavala, Tayfun Kahraman,
01:45:21Can Atalay, now you are talking about social peace.
01:45:24Ekrem İmamoğlu's right to defense,
01:45:27the arrested mayors, Mrs. Pınar, who was strip-searched,
01:45:31etc. Aren't these part of this social peace?
01:45:34You can't not say
01:45:36it. You can't not ask.
01:45:46You are trying them without detention. You are enacting a law
01:45:49against a terrorist organization that 86 million people of this country
01:45:53have been fighting for 40 years, and you claim that
01:45:56we will achieve peace and prosperity with this.
01:45:59On the other hand, there are other children of your country,
01:46:03many things have happened to them. Legally,
01:46:06operations were conducted against them.
01:46:18There was no fair trial. The files
01:46:21of these people were not handled correctly. You say
01:46:25release these people, retry them if necessary, but not a single hair
01:46:28is moved for these people, and we will all be
01:46:32part of social peace. How will this happen?
01:46:34You are keeping Ekrem İmamoğlu inside,
01:46:38he wants to speak. You are not giving him his rights, and
01:46:42you are not moving a muscle for the right to defense of most of those people,
01:46:45for the problems in the investigation phase that most of those people
01:46:49experienced. None of these
01:46:52contribute to the social peace of this country.
01:46:55To compensate for these, this will not happen with just
01:46:59these 12 pages, with 12 articles. That is, if
01:47:02it is believed that AK Party members
01:47:05can really internalize this, if
01:47:0812 million members can really internalize it, I have nothing else
01:47:12to say. That is, this is unacceptable, this is not a burden
01:47:15to bear. Look, this is not a burden to bear. You continuously apply
01:47:19the same stress, the same emphasis to one side,
01:47:23and then you come and say, "I will bring you back to political
01:47:26life, wrapped in cotton." Why don't you implement so many violation decisions
01:47:30made about Osman Kavala here? Why don't you implement the decision
01:47:34of the Constitutional Court regarding Tayfun Kahraman? Isn't Can Atalay a member
01:47:37of your parliament? Why don't
01:47:41you read the decision about this man in parliament?
01:47:43Is there a need for a law for this, for a regulation? Why do the trustees
01:47:47continue?
01:47:50These questions will naturally come to people's minds,
01:47:53and they will ask them. You can't not ask them, you can't
01:47:57not comment. He received life imprisonment for a case he was acquitted of.
01:48:01They say he was acquitted, and then he goes back in again and
01:48:04receives life imprisonment. Now, this is very, very, for example,
01:48:07they are extending the
01:48:10periods of trustees. Brother, you don't need a law for this. Reinstate him to his duty.
01:48:13What's in it? For example, reinstate Zeydan Karalar,
01:48:16reinstate Ahmet Türk. You don't
01:48:20need a law for this.
01:48:24You don't need a regulation. The Ministry of Interior makes that decision. Let
01:48:27Mustafa Çiftçi not extend it, and let him reinstate those he dismissed.
01:48:31Let it be over. Why don't you do this, for example? But at
01:48:35this point, MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli underlined that there is no
01:48:38status for Öcalan, etc., Mr. However, within the framework of the law, this
01:48:41is not possible. Visitors can increase. He said, "I
01:48:45am communicating with Demirtaş through his lawyers, and I am receiving news."
01:48:48He said, "Our relationship is good. We already worked together under the same roof."
01:48:52said MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli. Therefore, there
01:48:55may be a release for Demirtaş and Figen Yüksekdağ.
01:48:59Uh, that is, a hundred years of brotherhood
01:49:03is being registered. 86 million are winning, he says. Uh,
01:49:07these are true, so a process is ending. We will no longer
01:49:10receive news of martyrs. We will now look to the future more comfortably. That is,
01:49:13no one says let terrorism continue, of course. It should
01:49:16be so, of course. Let it strengthen, that is, look,
01:49:19let it strengthen in the region, in the region, in the region. It concerns Turkey very closely.
01:49:29Both concern NATO very closely. Uh, it concerns the Eurasian policies
01:49:32of global powers. That is, if we strike
01:49:35Iran, the United States says we will weaken Russia. If
01:49:39we support Ukraine, Russia and Iran will weaken together. If Russia
01:49:42and Iran weaken together, this time we will prevent
01:49:46them from giving support to China in the Asia-Pacific War tomorrow. If
01:49:49we prevent them from giving support to China, If
01:50:25justice and conscience do not find a place
01:50:28within us, you call
01:50:31the commission's name "solidarity," "social integration,"
01:50:34but unfortunately, polarization continues. Unfortunately, polarization continues.
01:50:38This won't do. Of course, everyone wants terrorism to end.
01:50:42While these people are inside, there will be releases. That is, people won't feel
01:50:45bitter. The numbers change every year, but it's well over 2 trillion dollars. Of course,
01:50:49the amount Turkey lost is 84.
01:50:52Turkey has been fighting terrorism intensely. All the 35-40 year
01:50:56old generation currently involved are the generation
01:50:59that grew up with terrorism. They have always seen it. What did it cost us? What did we lose?
01:51:03Can I say something? Symbolically, if they had put
01:51:06such an article to appease the conscience of this nation,
01:51:10to cool the heart of this nation, symbolically,
01:51:13even that could have been effective.
01:51:16There is a picture of 2.3 trillion dollars
01:51:20in material damage,
01:51:22and thousands of our people massacred. If they had said that these
01:51:26members of the terrorist organization who will come
01:51:30will be employed in public works for a year free of charge,
01:51:32if they had gone, if they had cleaned,
01:51:36if they had collected garbage, the Italian Prime Minister did that for a while.
01:51:40As workers, if they had worked on asphalt,
01:51:43at least people would say, "You are taking a step
01:51:46for peace for this country, and these
01:51:50are also serving."
01:51:57This people built the schools. Let them come at least.
01:52:04Let them work there for a year. This people
01:52:07did these things. Let them work, what would happen?
01:52:11Let them come here and clean the garbage, clean
01:52:14the cesspool. Let them feel a sense of shame.
01:52:17You commit all the crimes and then
01:52:21you come into politics.
01:52:26Just a few steps, you know, you say come into politics. Just a few steps for this
01:52:30people to show that look,
01:52:332.3 trillion in damages, thousands of our people's blood,
01:52:36there is responsibility. I, at least, while doing this, for a year,
01:52:39I made you collect your garbage. Let them say this, let people's consciences be a little soothed.
01:52:43You can't do anything by giving so much to one side. Let them say that it served the country,
01:52:47at least. Let them say
01:53:06Gold belongs to everyone, but the bracelet is Koçak.
01:53:10Years of accumulation, the tradition of these lands,
01:53:13Turkey's bracelet, is Koçak. Koçak.
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02:00:19We are continuing, we have entered the last hour.
02:00:22Now, uh, today, tomorrow, and
02:00:25probably this weekend, uh, the new
02:00:29legal framework in the process of a Turkey without terrorism, the bill
02:00:32for national solidarity and social integration, the name of this
02:00:36framework law, the bill,
02:00:39is expected to come to the commission tomorrow. It was submitted to the Speaker of the Parliament
02:00:43with the signatures of 360 deputies, in terms of style and
02:00:46procedure.
02:01:18"He repeated his words. He stated that his meetings
02:01:21with Selahattin Demirtaş continued through his lawyers.
02:01:24He said, "We had already worked together
02:01:26under the same roof in parliament."
02:01:30He said, "This is a state project." He said that he did not
02:01:33hold a group meeting or make a statement because
02:01:37the President and the Speaker of the Parliament
02:01:40are working intensely on this issue, and he did not want to stand in the way
02:01:43of these efforts, because this is a state project.
02:01:47He used the expression that
02:01:50his opinion has not changed.
02:01:53That is, he states that his view of "Demirtaş should return
02:01:57home, return to his family, Ahmet should return to his duty, and Öcalan to hope"
02:02:00has not changed. At this point,
02:02:03the framework law bill does not foresee
02:02:07a status for Öcalan. Since it does not cover crimes
02:02:10committed before 2005, the so-called high-ranking leaders
02:02:14of the terrorist organization are also excluded
02:02:18from this framework bill. Only AK Party Group Chairman Güler
02:02:22stated that the meeting traffic could increase, and that academics
02:02:25and journalists could also go and meet, and that an administrative arrangement
02:02:29would be sufficient for this. That is, there is no status
02:02:33or any right for Öcalan. This is not included in the law,
02:02:37but it is stated by the AK Party Group Chairman
02:02:40that an environment where the meeting traffic will increase and
02:02:43meetings can be held more easily can be provided.
02:02:47Those who committed intentional homicide,
02:02:49I guess, including sexual crimes,
02:02:53are excluded from this law. Those
02:02:56prosecuted for intentional homicide before 2005
02:02:59and who received less than 15 years will be monitored
02:03:03for 5 years, and those who received more than 15 years
02:03:06will be monitored for 10 years. Political bans will continue
02:03:09for 2 and 3 years. With the release of names
02:03:12like Selahattin Demirtaş and Figen Yüksekdağ,
02:03:162-3 PKK members are also expected to be released. Two monitoring
02:03:20boards are being formed. These monitoring boards will be established
02:03:23under the coordination of a Vice President and in parliament.
02:03:26The roadmap has been shaped this way. In summary,
02:03:29we can explain the legal
02:03:32framework like this. But Afşin Hatipoğlu said there are shortcomings.
02:03:35Who will monitor those shortcomings one by one? That is, where
02:03:39will these people, these terrorists, apply when they come? And
02:03:42also, those who work here, those who sign, will they be immune
02:03:46from legal prosecution? Well, if there are any
02:03:49shortcomings, if there are any mistakes, if there are any irregularities,
02:03:52then how will this immunity come before us? We have also
02:03:56raised all these question marks and questions within the framework
02:04:00of this program to the commission's work. Perhaps
02:04:03answers will come at that point. Of course, we will follow up. That is,
02:04:06lawyers also point out some question marks,
02:04:09shortcomings. Afşin Hatipoğlu also stated this.
02:04:12Would you make a headline about that shortcoming?
02:04:15"You cannot
02:04:19achieve this goal
02:04:21with this text. It is difficult to achieve
02:04:25this goal with this text. You cannot achieve it.
02:04:28Well, there is also an international aspect, of course. At
02:04:31that point, Professor Doctor Mithat Baydur draws attention
02:04:35to an important point. He says that these terrorists
02:04:38from Syria, Iraq, Europe,
02:04:41now there is Pejak in Iran, which includes the PKK,
02:04:45KCK, and other terrorist organizations.
02:05:00if there is a unification, and tomorrow it is used for Iran's internal
02:05:03conflict, is a measure being taken against such a danger or not?
02:05:07As a possibility, that is,
02:05:10the US-Israeli axis, which often says to Iran, "come, let's
02:05:14sit at the table and make a compromise," and then "I've changed my mind,
02:05:17I'm starting attacks again," says that this struggle with
02:05:20Iran will continue for a long time.
02:05:24Based on this, I am saying that there is a possibility
02:05:27that this new arrangement in Syria,
02:05:31that is, in Turkey, this Turkey without terrorism
02:05:34and the region within the KCK framework, which includes Syria
02:05:38and Northern Iraq, and Kandil,
02:05:40could actually create an accumulation in
02:05:44Pejak in Iran, and could be used against
02:05:47Iran in the future. I am saying this as a possibility.
02:05:50Regionally,
02:05:54there could be such a risk, such a possibility could arise.
02:05:57He conveyed
02:06:15on the economy. Let's see what our situation
02:06:19is, what we are experiencing in this process,
02:06:22how it contributes to us. Now,
02:06:25regarding Iran, US President Trump
02:06:29first said, "I will attack Iran again,
02:06:32I am starting attacks again." From that statement,
02:06:36the situation evolved to "we have restarted negotiations
02:06:39with Iran, the missiles have stopped, the attacks are over,
02:06:42negotiations are continuing." This happened from
02:06:45the period when the attacks started
02:06:49and oil prices rose above 90 dollars to 95-96 dollars,
02:06:52and then it evolved into a process
02:06:56that brought oil prices below 80 dollars. Oil prices
02:07:05were rising fast, and we brought diesel prices up to 82-83 liras in Antalya and the Eastern
02:07:08and Southeastern Anatolian provinces. In Istanbul,
02:07:12there was a diesel price of over 80 liras per liter.
02:07:15Now, uh, oil prices rose above 90
02:07:18dollars, and we rapidly increased prices. However,
02:07:22now that oil prices are falling, we expect them to fall here too, but it doesn't happen that way.
02:07:26We have a tax debt, you know, in the eşel mobile system,
02:07:30the increases were covered by taxes, right? Now, the discounts are also going to the budget
02:07:33as taxes, to the treasury. Therefore, in a sense, we are paying
02:07:37our tax debt. Uh, we always pay, the citizens always pay,
02:07:40you know, the debt is always the citizens'. Some people
02:07:44win, some people pay. We are the ones who say "on biyo". Now,
02:07:48last week, uh, oil, which had risen above 90 dollars
02:07:51in recent days, fell below 80 dollars,
02:07:55but there was no change in diesel or gasoline prices.
02:07:58Only 1 lira and 5 kuruş discount came for diesel.
02:08:01Gasoline is staying the same, LPG has already increased,
02:08:05it is staying the same. Uh, diesel could only drop by 1 lira and 5 kuruş.
02:08:08Actually, we had a discount of 6.37
02:08:12kuruş, but since we paid the tax debt, only 1 lira and 5
02:08:15kuruş was reflected on the pump. Then, last night,
02:08:19there was a discount of over 3 liras, even close to 4 liras,
02:08:22but that discount was not reflected at all. Diesel,
02:08:26gasoline, and LPG prices remained the same.
02:08:30Diesel is 80 liras in Istanbul, 81 liras
02:08:33in Ankara, 81 lira and 32 kuruş in Izmir, and we will reduce
02:08:36inflation, right? Gasoline is sold at prices
02:08:40ranging from 67 liras to 68, 69 liras. LPG is
02:08:43sold at around 33 to 50 liras. Nothing
02:08:47changes for us. Of course. Our inflation also
02:08:50got stuck at 30-31. Of course. Now, for example,
02:08:53gold prices in America are also like that. Now, what happens? For example,
02:08:57when world oil prices, as you said, suddenly rose
02:09:01to over 90, the American people also said,
02:09:04"Ah, this means that inflation will
02:09:08rise."
02:09:08The Fed will not cut interest rates.
02:09:12Well, if the Fed doesn't cut interest rates, what will happen? Interest rates,
02:09:16let alone fall, may even rise. Uh, this time,
02:09:19what happens? Uh, it happens, of course. That is, uh,
02:09:23given the possibility that interest rates will
02:09:25not fall, when there is an agreement, there is
02:09:29such a wobble again in gold prices and so on. That is, it's the same
02:09:33in the world. Now, diesel, uh, let's say they transport
02:09:36goods from Antalya in the South to Istanbul
02:09:40and Ankara. What will happen if diesel prices don't fall for goods
02:09:44brought by trucks? That is, inflation will remain
02:09:47at 26 or 28 for a long time,
02:09:51there was an expectation that it would fall.
02:09:54This indicates that it will remain stuck at 31-32
02:09:57for a long time, unfortunately. Winter is coming.
02:10:01There are natural gas prices with graded pricing. Now we
02:10:03are we are paying for this, so because
02:10:07we have a tax debt for gasoline prices, the tax support given
02:10:10to us in the mobile system. Since we paid it, it was paid back
02:10:14to the treasury, so if you add up the discount
02:10:17we received, how much was the discount? It was close to 10 liras.
02:10:20It even passed. 1 lira and 5 kurus reflected on our fuel. Think about it.
02:10:24A tax payment of approximately 14.5 to
02:10:2715 trillion liras is made. So,
02:10:31a large income item of the treasury consists of the taxes
02:10:34paid by the citizens. Those taxes,
02:10:38where are they going? They are going to interest.
02:10:42"This period we said 1.4 trillion liras, until the end of the year, we will
02:10:45pay 2.7 trillion, even more interest. Our
02:10:48taxes are going to interest, and also to treasury guarantees.
02:10:51How much has gone? I am conveying the point
02:10:54indicated by the data collected from the highways.
02:10:58The payment made for the transit guarantee to the companies
02:11:01operating bridges and motorways has approached 50 billion liras
02:11:05in the first 6 months. The estimated payment for the end
02:11:08of the year is 103.2 billion liras." In city
02:11:12hospitals, the bill is getting a bit higher.
02:11:15We paid 70.2 billion liras as rent and service fees
02:11:19during the January-June period. Therefore,
02:11:22while the payment made for bridges, motorways, and city
02:11:26hospitals in 2025 was 196.2 billion liras,
02:11:28the total payment for city hospitals, bridges, and motorways
02:11:32in the January-June period of this year alone exceeded 120 billion
02:11:35liras in 6 months. It is certain
02:11:38that we will make a much higher payment than this at the
02:11:42end of the year. So, we are not eating, not drinking.
02:11:46We are paying billions of liras for bridge,
02:11:49motorway transit guarantees and
02:11:52city hospitals. Weren't we supposed to not spend
02:11:56money from our pockets? But the interest
02:12:00we will pay at the end of the year, even all
02:12:03these city hospitals and motorways, even the
02:12:06motorways, account for 5% of the
02:12:09interest. So, the interest we will pay at the end of the year
02:12:13accounts for 5%. What kind of interest entanglement,
02:12:16what kind of interest trouble and disaster
02:12:20is this? It is a grave consequence
02:12:23olmanın hazim bir sonucudur ki, yani o kadar çok otoyol,
02:12:27bilmem ne köprüleri sayıyorsun, sayıyorsun, yıl sonundaki faizin sadece %5'i
02:12:31bu, yani 2 trilyon işte 320
02:12:34milyar civarında bir faiz ödeyecek Türkiye, çok büyük bir rakkam, çok
02:12:38büyük rakam, çok büyük bir rakkam, hem faiz ödüyorsunuz, hem garantiler ödüyorsun.
02:12:42hem de kamudaki harcamalar kadar büyümüş ki eee o
02:12:46büyüklük küçülemediği için de bir yandan da o harcamalara giderlere
02:12:50gidiyor eee bir yandan da eee işte bütün mesela bütçede
02:12:54diyorsunuz ki yer yok emekliye zam eee 70
02:12:58milyar lira mesela diyorsunuz ki 76 milyar lira en düşük emekli
02:13:01maaşını arttırdığımızda 70 milyar lira civarında
02:13:04bir maliyet oluşuyor diyorsunuz ama siz eee daha 6 ayda
02:13:08eee 120 milyar lira
02:13:11ödemişsiniz. hazine garantisi ve şehir hastanelerine,
02:13:15köprü ve otoyolları için ve şehir hastaneleri için?
02:13:18tabii, yani 70 milyar liranın iki katından, iki katına yakın ödeme
02:13:22yapmışsınız, aynen öyle, yani bunu emekliye de
02:13:26verebilirdiniz,
02:13:29the January simulations
02:13:30are being done.
02:13:33So, both for the minimum wage and for the raises to be given to civil servants
02:13:37and retired civil servants, it is understood that they will
02:13:41again remain below inflation, and those who pay the price
02:13:44against all this interest and inflation will again
02:13:48be those with fixed incomes and minimum wages, unfortunately.
02:13:51For example, when you look at it, it's 28,000, right?
02:13:55They still have to wait until January. How long is that?
02:13:58We just entered August. August, September, October, November,
02:14:02December. There are 5 months left, 5 months.
02:14:05The minimum wage is 28,075 liras.
02:14:08This is a normal hunger threshold.
02:14:12Turkish business figures reached 36,940 liras.
02:14:16It became 36,940. It approached 37.
02:14:19In the meantime, the minimum wage. What is the poverty line?
02:14:22120,625. 120,625 liras is the poverty
02:14:25line. Yes. If 4 people work for minimum wage, they cannot
02:14:28be poor. Exactly. They can't. Retirees can't
02:14:32even get close to poverty. And there's this, of course,
02:14:35that is, the minimum wage
02:14:37you mentioned has been reduced by almost
02:14:392 minimum wages.
02:14:52So, it will drop to 19,500 until a raise is given.
02:14:55It will be around 19,500. Exactly. For example, in
02:14:58one month, the retirement pension was 22,
02:15:01the retirement pension became 23,552 liras, the lowest
02:15:05retirement pension, and 419 liras flew away in one
02:15:08month, because inflation was 1.78. No, private sector
02:15:28owners, industrialists are unhappy, workers are unhappy,
02:15:31you go to the market, producers are unhappy,
02:15:34"Sister, do you know what we're going through?" says the market
02:15:37vendor and so on. You go to the farmer, the farmer says, "I haven't
02:15:40paid my debt as a producer, I'm going to sell one of my two
02:15:44tractors." Consumers are unhappy, students
02:15:47are unhappy, teachers are unhappy. So,
02:15:50who is happy? Who is happy? Can there be such a system?
02:15:54A system that aims to make everyone unhappy,
02:15:57everyone unhappy. Everyone is unhappy, producers,
02:16:01consumers, sellers, intermediaries, commissioners,
02:16:04farmers, everyone is unhappy. This is something terrible,
02:16:08something terrible, really terrible. Now, for example, you say
02:16:12retirement pensions, you say "I will take it from Echelmobil."
02:16:15You say, "I brought it to the Echelmobil system, now
02:16:19I will take the tax discounts as tax, I will take it back
02:16:22to the treasury." You are closing that tax gap. "Citizens already
02:16:26pay high taxes, it goes to interest, to treasury guarantees,
02:16:29to bridges, motorways, city hospitals. There's no money
02:16:32when it comes to raising salaries for retirees, for
02:16:36citizens, for wage earners. But our expenses, along
02:16:40with interest, are very high. We also have inflation,
02:16:43salaries are melting away. People are trying to pay
02:16:47their taxes and balance the treasury budget with
02:16:50those low salaries. This is the situation. I am presenting
02:16:53you the data from the highways." Bonds are being sold
02:16:57at 36% interest. So, the state itself doesn't believe it.
02:17:00If inflation is going to fall, why are you borrowing for
02:17:0410 years at over 130%? So, why are you getting into
02:17:08this borrowing in the first place? It fell from over 60.
02:17:11It fell, okay, it fell. The expectation is that it fell,
02:17:15but it was around 53, I guess. I don't know, maybe if it fell,
02:17:19it's below 50, around 49. In expectation surveys, the
02:17:22public's inflation expectation is perhaps slightly above or
02:17:25below 50. It never approaches 30, meaning the public's
02:17:29surveys. So, when you can't break the inflation expectation,
02:17:32right? An important parameter is expectation.
02:17:36When you can't break the expectation, then everyone
02:17:40takes a position that inflation will always be high.
02:17:44This position-taking also leads to more buying,
02:17:48putting a little aside, and so on. So,
02:17:51when they choose to bring forward their potential consumption,
02:17:55this somewhat fuels demand, even if their income is limited.
02:17:58So, what happens? Turkey really needs to break out of this vicious
02:18:02cycle. For example, I would have expected the new party
02:18:06to come up with a development and economic model without
02:18:09foreign debt. There are very valuable economists among
02:18:13them. When you look at it, the Justice and Development
02:18:16Party took it from 122 billion dollars and brought
02:18:20it to around 516-520 billion dollars in 26
02:18:23years. How will this foreign debt be paid? You're covering
02:18:26debt with debt. We say 2 trillion 320 billion. Next
02:18:29year, it will probably exceed 3 trillion, because you're
02:18:33covering debt with debt, and you're borrowing at over
02:18:3740% in the short term. Last time, you borrowed at 42%.
02:18:41It's like the state has 4 credit cards, and a normal citizen
02:18:44draws from one credit card to pay the other. The state is doing
02:18:48the same, taking from one to pay the other, borrowing again,
02:18:52covering debt with debt. Is it normal to have 700 new
02:18:55enforcement files every day? A thousand enforcement files
02:18:59per hour, a thousand per hour. So, if there are 8 hours of work for an officer, that's
02:19:028,000 a day, 240,000 a month,
02:19:05and around 2.5 million a year. It's accumulating every year.
02:19:09There are also closed files, of course, Mr. Afşin, there
02:19:13are also closed files. If there were 2.5 million every year,
02:19:17it would reach 80 million, but it's around 25-26 million.
02:19:21There are also closed ones, but 100 files are opened per hour.
02:19:25These are official figures. So, what kind of a situation is
02:19:29this? 100 enforcement files in one hour. Look at the
02:19:32gravity of the situation. 51% are indebted. Very highly
02:19:35indebted. Thank God, in our constitution,
02:19:39you cannot give a freedom- restricting sentence for debts
02:19:41arising from contracts. If such a thing existed,
02:19:44today, hundreds of thousands of people in this country
02:19:48would be imprisoned due to debt relations.
02:19:51There is a huge problem with debt loyalty.
02:19:55There are two reasons for this. One is that people
02:19:59knowingly incur debt that they cannot pay. That's bad.
02:20:02They exhibit such an attitude. And also, there are well-
02:20:06intentioned debtors who think they will pay but
02:20:09cannot finish the job. In this country, a certain
02:20:12segment has determined a procedure. They clear
02:20:16themselves up to a certain level with high Findex scores
02:20:18and bring them in. Then
02:20:22they borrow large sums from banks, third parties,
02:20:25and the market, and disappear from the market.
02:20:28And these chains ruin or affect
02:20:31the people connected to them. These are
02:20:34very clear problems in our country, but unfortunately,
02:20:38because they keep us busy with very empty matters,
02:20:41with issues that show nothing when filled,
02:20:44we cannot address these real problems, these real
02:20:48issues. Look, in our country, over 20
02:20:51million title deed transactions are made.
02:20:5422-23 million title deed transactions are made. Approximately
02:20:5825% of these are sales transactions. This is the general rough draft.
02:21:02So, there are almost 5 million sales
02:21:06in our country. There are almost 5 million real estate
02:21:09sales. In a year. This is not 1 million,
02:21:12you're talking about 5 million real estate properties.
02:21:16It includes land, yes, land, housing, etc., fields.
02:21:20uğraştırdıkları için altı doldurulduğunda
02:21:2310-15% of these are mortgage transactions. Why
02:21:26are mortgage transactions important? In almost all financial
02:21:30transactions, commercial counterparts,
02:21:33mortgages are involved. That's why in our
02:21:37country, around 2 million, maybe slightly more,
02:21:40mortgage transactions are made annually,
02:21:42and these mortgage transactions are transactions made to
02:21:46generate money. The equivalent of a mortgage
02:21:50is credit, the equivalent
02:21:58volume in real terms. However, because there is
02:22:01a huge difference between the registered economy
02:22:05and the unregistered economy, the sectors that our
02:22:10professor mentioned are unhappy. Workers are
02:22:13unhappy, farmers are unhappy. We see these, but
02:22:23way or another. They continue to sell houses.
02:22:27They buy cars. Even though it's less and prices
02:22:30are falling, they don't give up buying cars. The number
02:22:34of car rental companies is increasing. People
02:22:37rent cars, because in our country, the economy
02:22:40is somehow not desired to be kept
02:22:43within the registered system. From what I understand,
02:22:47in this state system, we desire a system
02:22:51supported by inflation and an unregistered economy.
02:22:54Otherwise, with the data you presented,
02:22:57with the data Ebru Hanım shared in the news,
02:23:00a country should rise up and say, "We are hungry,
02:23:03we can't make ends meet, we are dead, we are finished,
02:23:06we are in the streets." But such a situation
02:23:10is not the case, because people have a visible life,
02:23:14a registered life, and an invisible unregistered
02:23:17life, and they have a financial support that
02:23:21they truly rely on to sustain their lives.
02:23:30The land registry data I mentioned
02:23:32are officially announced data. This is not
02:23:36a small amount of data. Look, in a country
02:23:40with 86 million people, 5 million land sales
02:23:43per year means that approximately one
02:23:47in 8 people sells a land
02:23:50property. This can happen more than once,
02:23:54but it shows that millions of people are somehow
02:23:58making real estate sales and purchases.
02:24:01And did you know that the ban on cash
02:24:05payments for title deed sales has been extended
02:24:08to October? In Turkey, it is legal to pay
02:24:12cash for title deed sales. There is communique
02:24:15no. 213. And if individuals wish, they
02:24:19can give all their money in cash. This is legal.
02:24:22This is among the articles that are exceptions to bank
02:24:25transfers. Up to the point that in the land registry regulation,
02:24:29why am I explaining this? I'm explaining
02:24:33how we have a system that paves the way for the unregistered economy.
02:24:38According to the land registry regulation, according to the
02:24:41land registry legislation, if you want to sell a
02:24:44house today, even if its value is 10 million,
02:24:48let's say at the Şişli Land Registry Office, you
02:24:51can entrust that money to the land registry officer.
02:24:55After the parties complete the transaction, the Land
02:24:58Registry Officer can give the money to the recipient.
02:25:01These are living legal cash. I'm talking
02:25:05about cash. This is legal
02:25:07in our land registry legislation. Why did you explain this?
02:25:11I explained these for this reason: the unregistered economy
02:25:15is being encouraged in this country. I understand.
02:25:17How can you track cash? You can't.
02:25:21You can't, that's what I'm explaining. He tells
02:25:25me, "Go withdraw money and bring it." Every time
02:25:27I go, but there's this. Before even getting to the
02:25:31title deed, every time you enter, he says, "Withdraw
02:25:35money and bring cash." And the 200 lira
02:25:38banknote is the largest. So, if he withdraws 10,000,
02:25:41if you still consider cash legal in Turkey, where
02:25:44verebilir, bunlar canlı yasal nakit
02:25:48paradan bahsediyorum, bu bizim tapu.
02:25:52mevzuatımız da hukukidir, niye anlattınız bunu? bunları şunun için anlattım, bu memlekette kayıt
02:25:56dışılık teşvik ediliyor, anladım, siz elden
02:25:59parayı nasıl takip edebilirsiniz? edemezsiniz
02:26:02ki, edemezsiniz, onu anlatıyorum, bana diyor, git para çek getir diyor
02:26:06gittiğim her, ama şöyle bir şey var tabuya
02:26:10gelmeden daha girdiğin her para çek getir nakit getir diyor
02:26:13bana bir de 200 lira en büyük
02:26:16baknot topladı yani 10.000 çekse.
02:26:30Sen hala Türkiye'de 5 milyon tapu satışı 23 milyon tapu
02:26:33işlemi olan bir yerde hala elden parayı yasal kabul
02:26:36ediyorsan ben nasıl diyebilirim ki sen kayıt dışı
02:26:39ekonomiyi teşvik etmiyorsun bas baya
02:26:42ediyorsun işte peki bu bir orada bir hata yok değil mi şimdi şöyle bir
02:26:46şey benim mesleğim ondan söylüyorum hocam tabii hayır yani %2'yi
02:27:01alan veriyor %2'yi şimdi bunun makbusunu götürdüğünüz zaman yani diyelim ki bir kamu
02:27:05bankası olsun bu ziraat bankası olsun ziraat bankasına siz alan ve
02:27:09satan %2 evin değeri üzerinden vergi
02:27:11yatırdığınızda bunun akibeti ne oldu diye iban
02:27:14üzerinden devlet bunu kontrol etmek zorunda değil mi maliye bunu
02:27:18eğer ortada kredi yoksa.
02:27:20"takip edebileceği bir müessese yok, bizde tapu satışının
02:27:23değeri belediye raiç değerinden yapılır,
02:27:27bugün bulunduğumuz yer neresi burası, bakırköy,
02:27:30zeytinburnu her neyse, buradaki belediyeye gidersin, ben bu
02:27:34daireyi satmak istiyorum, emlak borcun varsa onu ödettirir
02:27:37sana, belediye raiş değeri verir, belediye raiş
02:27:41değerleri ile piyasa değerleri arasında 5 kata
02:27:44yakın, bazı yerlerde 10-15 kata yakın fark
02:27:47vardır, siz sadece bunu. beyan etmekle
02:27:50mükellefsiniz, 3 milyon liralık satış gösteriyorsunuz,
02:27:54yasal devlet diyor ki, bana diyor raiç değeri göster yeter, 3
02:27:57milyonu gösteriyorsun resmi senede, 3 milyon
02:28:00üzerinden %2 %2 %4'ten 120.000 lira
02:28:04harcı yatırıyorsun, değer gerçekte satış değeri 15
02:28:07milyon, o 12 milyon ne oluyor, demin onu
02:28:10anlattım, 12 milyonu ben hocam hayırlı olsun, evin
02:28:14hayrını görürsün diye sizden elden
02:28:16almam yasal, bunu anlatıyorum, anladım. ve
02:28:20bu bunu kısıtlayan bir şey yok diyor teşvik ediyor, istisna
02:28:23tutmuş, tebliğ numarası söylüyorum, 213
02:28:27numaralı vergi tebliği, burada
02:28:35tespit edebileceksiniz, yani kayıt dışıyla mücadeleyi
02:28:38there are 5 million
02:28:41title deed sales and 23 million title deed transactions,
02:28:45how can I say that you are not encouraging the unregistered
02:28:48economy? You are clearly encouraging it. So,
02:28:52there's no mistake there, right? Now, let me tell you something
02:28:55about my profession, professor. Of course, no, I mean,
02:28:58the one who takes 2% gives 2%. Now, when you take
02:29:02this receipt, let's say it's a public bank, Ziraat
02:29:05Bank. When you deposit 2% of the house's value
02:29:07as tax,
02:29:40will give you a fair value. There is a difference of
02:29:43almost 5 times, in some places even 10-15 times, between
02:29:46municipal fair values and market values. You are
02:29:55the fair value." You show 3 million in the official
02:29:58deed. You pay 120,000 liras in fees, which is 2%
02:30:02+ 2% = 4% of 3 million. The actual sales value
02:30:05is 15 million. What happens to that 12 million?
02:30:09I explained that earlier. I can legally take
02:30:13the 12 million from you in cash, saying, "Congratulations,
02:30:17may you benefit from your house." I'm explaining this.
02:30:20I understand. And there's nothing restricting
02:30:22this. It's encouraging it.
02:30:25It has made an exception. I'm giving you the communique
02:30:29number: Tax Communique No. 213. It has made
02:30:32an exception here. How will you be able to detect such
02:30:36a gap? How will you be able to detect it? So,
02:30:39as long as you don't fight the unregistered economy
02:30:43completely, the tax burden on citizens will keep increasing.
02:30:47Some people will be comfortable, and everyone in the registered
02:30:50economy will be breathless and bear the burden on their
02:30:54shoulders. It's very simple. A fair value of 3 million
02:30:58brings 120,000 liras in fees. If there were a sale of
02:31:0130 million and it was truly
02:31:04declared, it would bring 1,200,000 liras in fees.
02:31:07There's a loss of 900,000. Citizens pay tax on everything
02:31:09they buy. All basic food items, including cosmetics,
02:31:13including cleaning supplies, they pay tax. In every
02:31:38the income tax part. The income tax part also
02:31:41decreases. People have found a way to not pay tax,
02:31:44and with large sums of money, they pay less tax. But
02:31:48citizens, with their meager salaries, continue
02:31:52to contribute to the treasury by paying incredible taxes.
02:31:55Hatipoğlu is talking about the injustice here. He says,
02:31:59"You buy a house and you avoid taxes from everywhere. You're
02:32:01talking about a 30 million lira house, but you're not
02:32:05tracking whether the fees, etc., for the 30 million
02:32:09lira house were paid via bank transfer or IBAN, how much
02:32:12money was sent." That citizen is educating his child in
02:32:16America. I'm telling you these as real stories.
02:32:18He sends 2,000 dollars. They make you fill out 4
02:32:22papers at the bank, you know, "I'm sending it to my daughter,
02:32:25she's studying there," and so on. "How many years has she
02:32:29been studying? How many years will she study?" It's a comedy.
02:32:32Can it be such a comedy? Now, in July, real estate
02:32:36sales will probably fall in parallel with this
02:32:40title deed data and housing data.
02:32:43Yes, housing data will come next week,
02:32:46either tomorrow or next week. This is also related to
02:32:50rising interest rates. It's related to rising
02:32:53interest rates, and gold is now picking up a
02:32:56bit. And prices have risen so much that people
02:33:00no longer have the strength to buy. If they take out
02:33:03a loan, they pay 100,000 liras for 3 million.
02:33:06Look, I worked for 10 years at the
02:33:10General Directorate of Land Registry and Cadastre.
02:33:13I also worked at National Real Estate for a short period.
02:33:17Because I worked in the central system here,
02:33:20I saw how real estate changed hands as a bureaucrat.
02:33:23In our country, there is real estate that changes
02:33:26hands three times in the same day. Three times in the
02:33:29same day. Now, this is an investment tool. Real estate
02:33:39is an investment tool in our lands. Normally,
02:33:43in accounting, real estate is classified as a fixed
02:33:46asset. Its name says fixed asset. Here, it is used
02:33:50like a current asset, like liquid, like gold,
02:33:53like money, like a check. It constantly changes hands.
02:33:57Real estate. Look, we talked about the Ahbap
02:34:00investigation here, didn't
02:34:03we? What is at its core, materially? Real estate.
02:34:06Real estate is at the
02:34:08core of loan sharking.
02:34:11Real estate is at the The wife
02:34:14doesn't everyone find a way to make a living and continue
02:34:17their life? If you make it so expensive, the pensioner will rent
02:34:20out their room to a student, share their car going on the road
02:34:24with a friend, rental houses in holiday
02:34:27regions will increase, it also happens at airport exits. The person asks, "Where are you
02:34:31going?" and they immediately get together. There's no such thing as pirate
02:34:33taxis in Istanbul. Let them take a look, how many pirate
02:34:37taxis there are, in which places, how, who
02:34:40uses them. Let them take a look. Why did you say
02:34:44that? I don't understand. Anyway, I can't understand you, but
02:34:48your most important
02:34:48feature is
02:34:52not understanding. Your most beautiful side is not understanding. Okay,
02:34:56I'll understand that later. For example, I can't understand
02:34:59some jokes. Then they say, "Never mind, don't understand.
02:35:02Don't dwell on it, move on." I think you are
02:35:06doing something significant, but when you don't understand, you ask. That's a good thing. What's
02:35:09there? For example,
02:35:12the price of oil has increased, right? People can't buy cars, but
02:35:15they need transportation. Yes, they meet that transportation need by sharing
02:35:19a car. They don't have their own car. They tell their friend,
02:35:23"I'll pay for the toll and the gas
02:35:27and take me to Izmir." So they share
02:35:29that car.
02:35:43We can survive. We're incredible survivors. For example, Istanbul Airport, "Anyone going to Levent?"
02:35:47Etiler, Levent and so on.
02:35:51Three people immediately show up and we solve the problem. We cover the gas money, we cover the bridge
02:35:54tolls. But what will we do with the natural gas bill?
02:35:58They've made it tiered. Winter is coming now, schools will open, there's a school
02:36:01expense. On the one hand, salaries have melted away,
02:36:05wages have melted away, we spent so much money on holidays that we didn't
02:36:08have a situation where we could save money in the summer and relax. Everything
02:36:12is so expensive that even a two-day holiday,
02:36:15no matter where you look, creates the effect of having gone on a 15-day
02:36:19holiday. So, the high prices. Now, they say that a tiered tariff
02:36:23has been introduced for natural gas. Experts and sector representatives say
02:36:26that approximately 20-23 million residential subscribers
02:36:29will be affected by this
02:36:33tiered bill increase, but we believe that
02:36:35when the weather is cold and
02:36:39there are children at home, and natural gas
02:36:41is on all day, 35-40%
02:36:45of these 23 million households will be affected
02:36:48by the tiered natural gas price increase and the tiered
02:36:52transition. In other words, the natural gas bills of a much wider
02:37:05under tier 1. When it switches to tier 2, for every cubic
02:37:09meter, 26 lira and 13 kuruş is paid.
02:37:13Now, let's say your bill is 1623
02:37:17lira. You're in tier one, but you've increased your consumption,
02:37:20you're consuming more. For example, if a child gets sick, or
02:37:24our elders are at home more, we start consuming more. The weather gets cold,
02:37:28we burn more. Your bill goes from 1623
02:37:31lira to 2,623 lira all of a sudden. So,
02:37:35open the windows, open them,
02:37:38turn off the heaters, no work, no money. Okay, for example, for this, "No work,
02:37:42bring blankets, bring blankets, bring
02:37:45blankets." There's a period of "blankets." Let me ask you a question now. You always ask,
02:37:49for example, what would be the result in the medium and
02:37:52long term? What do you mean? What would be the result
02:37:56of such an application in the
02:37:58medium and long term in the construction
02:38:02sector? What would happen? We pray that natural gas
02:38:06cuts do not start. People,
02:38:09well, they'll withdraw from their credit cards, from their savings accounts. 2+1s
02:38:13won't sell, they'll go. Of course, the small ones are already being sold.
02:38:16The small ones are being sold. Now, 85
02:38:31this is not possible. For example, living in a triplex
02:38:34building, this kind of 12,000 lira is not possible.
02:38:37The bill for this will reach 25-30 thousand there. There are
02:38:42such high dues that people pay more than their rents. That is,
02:38:45the dues are far above the normal rents
02:38:49we pay, there are no dues below 15-16,000 lira. And now they will also be increased in December.
02:38:53Sometimes they postpone it from July because the minimum
02:39:06gone tiered. Children are at home, everyone is at home.
02:39:10They come from school. You will heat the house,
02:39:14electricity will be used. They will use the internet. Winter means expense.
02:39:1780% of the complex I live in
02:39:26My university faculty member, for example, I don't know,
02:39:29his wife is an English teacher, he's a lawyer, an engineer working
02:39:32somewhere, something like that. Now they rent out their own homes and move
02:39:36to a cheaper house. Exactly. There's nothing to do. The dues
02:39:40are 15,000. The bigger the house, the more expensive the natural gas. Natural gas.
02:39:43Last year, what we paid... 6,500, 7, 7,200,
02:39:46it was around that. 15,000 lira in dues is normal. You'll make ends meet,
02:39:50whatever. He rents it out. He rents
02:39:53out a nice place somewhere.
02:40:11where everyone is a tenant, the moment a person sees themselves as temporary,
02:40:15disrespect, carelessness, respect
02:40:18for the site, keeping it clean, environmental order, all these disappear. Because
02:40:22they see themselves as temporary, like a nomad. So,
02:40:25as long as there are no permanent residents, because
02:40:29it might not be able to meet the high demand next year. Of course, it
02:40:32can happen. Oh, by the way,
02:40:36let me mention something about gold and silver income inequality.
02:40:44decreased in America.
02:41:09They were eating caviar on luxury
02:41:12Bon appétit.
02:41:39of these watches. Demand has decreased there.
02:41:43In Turkey, the exports from Switzerland
02:41:46during this period were 165.2
02:41:50million francs, which is approximately 9.6 billion
02:41:53lira. The increase is 7%.
02:41:57In our country. It increased by 7%. Sir, these are luxury
02:42:00watches, and despite the bad economic
02:42:03situation, yes, I think this passion for watches
02:42:07is because if you put 3 million in interest, it will bring
02:42:10you 101 million lira, 101,000 lira. Yes, yes.
02:42:13If you find 46% interest and get 101,000
02:42:16lira, and if you have 20,000 lira in retirement
02:42:19pension, you will cross the poverty line. Can there be such
02:42:23interest, such a return? This is not for a professor.
02:42:27So, 3 million means that in Turkey, he has that much salary from interest.
02:42:30He teaches for 20 hours and so on.
02:42:34In universities, what happens to you is that such watches explode,
02:42:37that is, while watch imports are decreasing all over the world,
02:42:41you increase imports. You spend 9.5 billion lira
02:42:44on watches. This is very interesting to me, honestly. In a country
02:42:47where no one in Turkey comes to their appointments on time, where no
02:42:51plane takes off on time, I'm genuinely
02:42:55curious if this much passion for watches works. These are new models,
02:42:58not old classic ones you inherited from your family. So,
02:43:02one of the factors supporting the unregistered economy
02:43:05are watches. Yes. In someone's house you wouldn't expect, there's a watch collection. Very criminal.
02:43:09When you look at criminal reports, valuable
02:43:12certified products are used
02:43:16to support the unregistered economy. I understand
02:43:18this.
02:43:21I know that, dear. I understand this. For example,
02:43:25diamonds are a very large wealth transfer
02:43:28product. Those who sell their spoils and goods
02:43:31from war zones, their unregistered money, can put diamonds
02:43:34in a pouch, travel all over the world, and cash
02:43:38them in however they want there.
02:43:41For example, the jewelry given at weddings,
02:43:44when a child went abroad, they used to tell us, "Take
02:43:48this bracelet, put it on your wrist, or take this watch, put it on your wrist,
02:43:52so you have something on your wrist that you can convert to money. Your wallet
02:43:55might be stolen, something might happen, you can't control it."
02:43:59So, this is a very clear indication of income
02:44:02inequality, the widening gap between classes, and the increase
02:44:06in unregistered activities. The data you have provided,
02:44:09the watches here are 10,000 dollars,
02:44:1320,000 dollars, 100,000 dollars, 50,000 dollars, there are watches
02:44:17worth 700,000 dollars. I mean, these brands are incredible.
02:44:20There are watches bought for 40-50 million. The man enters New York
02:44:23with a 500 million
02:44:25watch in his bag.
02:44:37They ask about money for declaration, but I have never seen them
02:44:39ask about watches.
02:44:42That's right, that's right, you're right.
02:44:45In the last 4 minutes, is there any fresh fruit and vegetables next to you?
02:44:49Sir, on the bill, on the rent bill,
02:44:53you say "okra, I'm buying it for 150 lira" for half a
02:44:55kilo. You will eat, you pay 150 lira.
02:44:58You will eat cherries, it's August, you pay 20
02:45:02lira. No, but we gave up on okra, we bought it as a split. How much
02:45:05is it then? How much is it? It was 100 lira
02:45:08when split, I guess, sir. You made a big
02:45:11saving. 50 lira,
02:45:13approximately. Sir, is onion expensive
02:45:17there too? 70 lira. Oh, the same.
02:45:19Old Foça in Istanbul. I went this year. No,
02:45:23no onions either. Sir, it's like an old people's home there, no noise at all.
02:45:27Oh,
02:45:36why is that, but do you know, sir, many places are like that, I think, this year, but
02:45:39because those with Foça money travel, they can't make it to
02:45:42every place. Those who bought in time have bought. Retired colonels, retired generals,
02:45:46you know, university professors, etc. Since there is no new construction,
02:45:49imagine a big complex, for example. You go for a morning walk,
02:45:53everyone says good morning, hello, etc. It has become like a big family.
02:45:56Therefore, everyone is respectful to each other, not much noise.
02:46:00Their ice cream vendor is good, yes, did he
02:46:03queue up? I don't know how much it is, but it was cheap.
02:46:06How much? Let's not mention names.
02:46:08There's a guy there who fills the ice cream very slowly
02:46:12so that the shop looks crowded. I guess it's around
02:46:1690-100-110 lira for a scoop. There's also a Maraş
02:46:19ice cream vendor there, I guess it's around 60 lira. So,
02:46:23there are two more ice cream vendors who do a lot of business, but the market
02:46:27is cheaper than Istanbul. For example, tomatoes were also 30 lira.
02:46:31I wrote down all the prices for Ebru in my head. Then, sir,
02:46:35food is expensive, it will be even more expensive in winter. I bought some yesterday in Istanbul for 60
02:46:38lira. What? Tomatoes.
02:46:41Food is expensive. There are also dried
02:46:44tomatoes in Manisa. They are so beautiful. You know, Italians
02:46:48dry tomatoes. They were about to go
02:46:51abroad. A serious Do you like it? Sun-dried.
02:46:55They were good. If we could find them. No, no.
02:46:58Tülin makes it, but let me bring you some. I love it. I'll bring
02:47:02it to you. Okay, promise. No, don't bother. My wife is interested
02:47:05in these things. Exactly. Here, too,
02:47:07abroad.
02:47:09That's a lot of
02:47:21work.
02:47:21They all live
02:47:33ordinary. People produce
02:47:37809. These tomatoes. We eat them for 70-80 lira
02:47:41now. I don't know how much we'll eat them in winter.
02:47:59after 34 years of marriage, in their 40th year. Abuzer Bey is
02:48:0371 years old, and his wife is
02:48:0659 years old, and their children are 6 years old.
02:48:13This image of the twins has been talked about a lot since yesterday. May God grant
02:48:16them to grow up with their parents, God willing.
02:48:19May God grant health to everyone. You know,
02:48:23Abuzer Bey has an interesting story. He retired,
02:48:26and he also retired his wife. He paid her pension from outside
02:48:29while working. Both of them retired. He wanted his wife to retire too.
02:48:32The retirement card arrives, he doesn't know about it.
02:48:36Someone else from the village takes it. For 2 years, Abuzer Bey's salary.
02:48:40Do you know? They ask, "Why didn't you
02:48:43complain?" He says, "I don't want anything to happen to my children. Let them
02:48:47be peaceful. Let him take it." Someone else
02:48:50took his retirement salary for two years,
02:49:01the first card, and then the passwords. The man set his own password.
02:49:04The man took this retirement
02:49:06salary for two years.
02:49:09Oh, we'll finish this day. The rise in gold prices is accelerating,
02:49:12let's also mention that. Silver and copper are also increasing
02:49:16with it. Today, the gram price of gold, which exceeded
02:49:196,500 lira, left its mark. Maybe this
02:49:22will somewhat boost other sectors like automotive and housing.
02:49:25Now, as I conclude, I will
02:49:29say something very quickly. A note
02:49:32came.
02:49:34So,
02:49:39for example, there are these convicts, right? For
02:49:42convicts, regarding political
02:49:45bans, this monitoring board applies to the enforcement
02:49:48court. Yes. The court evaluates it. Also,
02:49:52for example, this enforcement does not completely end after 3 years.
02:49:56It is applied for after 3 years. Okay, there is a legal possibility
02:50:00after 3 years. You can do it if you want, but
02:50:03they can't. That possibility might not exist. If it were 5 years
02:50:07instead of 3 years, it would start from 5 years. A note
02:50:10came that the court decides this. Let's also pass
02:50:14that on to you. Of course, we'll discuss it a lot more,
02:50:17we'll talk a lot, we'll talk a lot, but
02:50:20hopefully, it will lead us to a country where terrorism has ended,
02:50:24where that period has returned, a healthy, beautiful country where 86 million people live
02:50:28together in peace.
02:50:30See you with Mehmet Teskan for a brighter future.
02:50:34üzere.
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02:56:53"High prices are burning a hole in citizens' pockets. Most
02:56:57are turning to foreign countries for holidays, and the number of foreign tourists
02:57:00coming to the country has also decreased. We asked the public, 'Is
02:57:03your holiday destination domestic or international?' If tourists
02:57:06aren't coming anymore, what can we do? They used to come because it was cheap,
02:57:10so it's not cheap anymore. It's even more expensive for them.
02:57:14If it's expensive for them now, what can
02:57:17we do? Then this place must be Dubai or something for us.
02:57:20I mean, we can't even go abroad
02:57:23anymore, and since we can't stay in the country, we're now
02:57:27going towards the villages. Honestly, I would prefer domestic,
02:57:31but you know, people right
02:57:34now, excuse me, they can't even
02:57:37go within Turkey. The money they receive is very
02:57:41dreadful. Our citizens are writhing in distress, and they don't
02:57:44care at all. We could go abroad, to the nearest Chios
02:57:47Island in Greece, because it's really
02:57:51expensive here. If they opened our beaches, if there were more
02:57:55public beaches rather than private companies,
02:57:58if it were publicly accessible, of course,
02:58:02our people would want to stay here for holidays. They would choose
02:58:06it. I also traveled to Arabia twice. And
02:58:09the most beautiful paradise in the world is Turkey. The most beautiful paradise in Turkey
02:58:12is Bolu Düzce. Why Bolu Düzce? For example, in summer,
02:58:16I came here and I'm overwhelmed by the heat. I didn't see this heat in Düzce.
02:58:19We are always close to nature. Close to nature.
02:58:22Nature is not invested in. For example, you go to Abant, the entrance
02:58:26is over 200 lira to Abant. Everywhere is filthy.
02:58:29I went abroad, for example, it was very clean there, sister. Everyone is careful.
02:58:32But our people are not very careful, I wish. "If we were a bit
02:58:36more conscious about these issues, I personally think
02:58:40this is effective. I would like to travel in my country right now,
02:58:43but unfortunately, we don't have the means, we can't travel.
02:58:47Where did you go last, for example? We didn't go anywhere, really. Where can we go?
02:58:50We can't go anywhere. If I had the chance, I would first go and see my
02:58:53family in my hometown. I would have a holiday with them for 3-5 days.
02:58:57But for a whole year, I can't even go and see my family once a year,
02:59:00my mother and father. They are old people. They have contributed to us. Where do they
02:59:04live?" They live in a village. And when you go, you can't go empty-handed.
02:59:08You have to buy some things, but you can't.
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03:00:21Today is August 6th, Thursday. Welcome to Neden Sonuç on Halk TV
03:00:25with Mehmet Teskan. Good morning, Mehmet Teskan.
03:00:34They will report on the developments. Of course, in the coming
03:00:37minutes, we will turn to the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. The framework
03:00:40law traffic continues there. Today is also an important day.