Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00It is beneficial to remind that for more than a year
00:00:03there have been reports that AK Party and MHP experts
00:00:07have been working on a new constitutional text. A new constitutional text is being worked on,
00:00:10the ruling group is carrying out this work,
00:00:14it has not yet been announced to the public.
00:00:17Now, the most important article of the constitution
00:00:21concerning the government is Article 101. According to this article, a
00:00:24person cannot be elected president more than twice. Considering
00:00:28this article, for Mr. Erdoğan to be a candidate for the third time,
00:00:32the Parliament needs to decide on early elections.
00:00:35In order to decide on early elections, the government
00:00:38needs the votes of Dem Party deputies. Also, to be re-elected
00:00:42in the elections, it needs the votes of Dem Party members.
00:00:46This is a political reality.
00:00:49Therefore, a constitutional amendment
00:00:52or a new constitution
00:00:55can be brought to the agenda and Article 101
00:00:59can be removed. "Some articles of the constitution can be changed
00:01:02and the Dem Party can support this.
00:01:05Will the CHP support this Kılıçdaroğlu's CHP? Of course,
00:01:08I don't know that because the CHP,
00:01:12the old CHP, when Kılıçdaroğlu
00:01:15was the chairman, the old CHP
00:01:18had an attitude against this. However, whether their
00:01:22signing the framework law today means their
00:01:25views have changed, I don't know and I have no information,
00:01:29but it is certain that the new party
00:01:33will object. Already, as the old CHP,
00:01:36the current new party management
00:01:39had opposed Mr.
00:01:42Erdoğan's candidacy for the third time
00:01:46because an constitutional amendment was made.
00:01:48The Supreme Election Board did not count
00:01:52system. He says they will achieve the period when the president was elected in 2014.
00:01:56This was not his third time. He
00:02:00did this presidency only once,
00:02:03so he can be a candidate for the second time, they said. They objected
00:02:06to this at that time. Now I say third time, but in fact,
00:02:09it will be his fourth time as a candidate.
00:02:13That's why, if Article 101's obstacle is removed,
00:02:17or if the Parliament decides on early elections with the support of the Dem Party's
00:02:20deputies, Mr. Erdoğan can again be a presidential candidate,
00:02:23and by getting the support of the Dem Party members
00:02:27at the ballot box, he might be thinking of being re-elected.
00:02:30Of course, if you ask if there is a guarantee for this, there isn't.
00:02:34I mentioned it in 2015, in the 2015 elections,
00:02:38when the opening process was on the agenda, the AK Party lost a lot of votes
00:02:41and also lost its power
00:02:44to form a single government. Will there be a similar public reaction or not?
00:02:48We will see that when the election time approaches. But
00:02:52with a new constitutional approach, the government
00:02:55might bring forward a text aiming to get the support
00:02:58of the Dem Party. From this perspective,
00:03:01looking at it from the new party's perspective, the three
00:03:05articles of the constitution that cannot even be proposed
00:03:08for amendment are out of the question. So, the new party
00:03:12will not accept even the slightest
00:03:15change regarding this. If a change on this issue
00:03:19comes to the agenda, it's not hard to guess
00:03:22that the public will react at the ballot box, Gökmen.
00:03:26Yes, now you know, with 430
00:03:29or rather, 360 deputies' signatures,
00:03:33the proposal was submitted. Yes, I think it will pass
00:03:36with over 430 deputies, says Fetih Yıldız.
00:03:39Let's see how Fetih Yıldız does that calculation,
00:03:42how the math. Yes, in the Parliament at the moment, what
00:03:46do we have? We're looking. The Justice and Development
00:03:49Party has 277 seats.
00:03:53The New Party has 91, the Dem Party has
00:03:5656, the MHP has 46,
00:04:00the CHP has 45, the İyi Party has 29,
00:04:04Yeniyol has 20, Independents 10,
00:04:07Hüdapar 4. Now, let's look at the two-digit
00:04:11and three-digit numbers. Of course, 277
00:04:14for AKP, when we add the Dem Party, it becomes 270,
00:04:18320, 327, 333.
00:04:22When we add the MHP to that,
00:04:24333, 40 is 373,
00:04:28379.
00:04:33425. With a few more from the others,
00:04:37of course, Hüdapar, yes, it easily exceeds 430.
00:04:40So, the AK Party and MHP
00:04:43and CHP when you add them up
00:04:47it makes 424. If you add Hüdapar
00:04:50to that, I don't know,
00:04:53and the other Democratic Regions Party,
00:04:56and then from Yeniyol
00:05:00there might be supporters, and if you add them all,
00:05:03it really easily passes, because the Good Party
00:05:07had already announced it would never support it.
00:05:1129 deputies. The New Way announced its support,
00:05:13if I'm not mistaken. The New Party has 91
00:05:16deputies. So, it could be that if the New Party
00:05:20abstains or votes no,
00:05:23then excluding about 90
00:05:27plus 30, roughly 120 deputies,
00:05:30it would pass with the signatures of the rest of the parliament. And even the New Party,
00:05:33despite all these criticisms,
00:05:36has the possibility of saying yes
00:05:39in the end. We'll see, but
00:05:50such a number emerges. Do you think,
00:05:54Deniz Hocam, that the presidential alliance
00:05:58genuinely views this as a libertarian constitution,
00:06:01or do they think, "Hey, I've caught a moment
00:06:04now, in this process, I can fully control this
00:06:08until the election, and I can keep the Dem Party
00:06:11by my side, not lose them to the New Party,
00:06:15and thus get through this process"? Now, in this process,
00:06:19the presidential alliance, or rather, its updated version,
00:06:22as you know, the expanded presidential alliance,
00:06:25which includes the CHP, because at this point,
00:06:29I don't predict a democratization move
00:06:32will come, even a constitutional democratization move,
00:06:36because if the current constitution were applied, and it's not that
00:06:39the current constitution is very good, let's not misunderstand, but
00:06:42if it were applied, we probably wouldn't be discussing
00:06:46many problems. Of course, constitutions are not
00:06:49sacred texts; they can change according to need. But
00:06:53I don't want to give the example of the American constitution; how many times has it changed in 200 years?
00:06:56How many constitutions have we made, let alone amendments?
00:06:59So, at this point, the fundamental problem
00:07:03is being able to say "democracy now" in every field. That's why I'm at the point
00:07:06I mentioned in the first round; the 7th section of the report
00:07:09carries even more urgency, it's about what needs to be implemented
00:07:13on a democratic basis. You know, in economics,
00:07:17there's always talk of insufficient demand. In Turkey, for many years,
00:07:20there was always talk of insufficient democratic demand. I think right now, it's the opposite;
00:07:24this demand has now turned into a social wave,
00:07:28a tsunami. That's why what Barış Hodja said earlier, about
00:07:31the 60% in Northern Cyprus, we are truly facing a very similar
00:07:35situation. Provided it's managed well, nothing is ever
00:07:39guaranteed. If you manage it well, it goes much higher. If it's bad,
00:07:43it goes in a different direction. In this context, especially
00:07:47regarding Mr. Özgür Özer, the discussion of whether his immunity will be lifted
00:07:50or similar issues being brought up is truly a normalization,
00:07:54a normalization in a negative sense. It's an understanding
00:07:57that treats this as a normal action,
00:08:01as a component of normality. Because when looked at in this
00:08:04context, there's a risk that democracy is increasingly turning into
00:08:08a decorative element, unfortunately. Now, on this framework law,
00:08:14I was really stuck, and Barış Hodja
00:08:18very nicely reminded us about the Public Administration Basic Law.
00:08:21At that time, in 2003-2004,
00:08:24it was discussed a lot. And let's remember,
00:08:27at that time, the question of whether administrative tutelage and hierarchy
00:08:31in Turkey's constitutional structure would change was on the agenda.
00:08:34Then, even though it seemed to have been withdrawn, especially the new structure formed
00:08:38with the 2017 referendum, perhaps we need to discuss
00:08:42it at length in another program, but let me just give a few examples,
00:08:45we talked about it before. The undersecretariats
00:08:48were abolished from the ministries, deputy ministers came in,
00:08:51now there are privileged contract employees
00:08:54in Beştepe, there are those who don't work under Law No. 657.
00:08:57So, public administration in this sense,
00:09:01for example, in English, do you weigh public administration or public management?
00:09:05Public administration, of course. When you see this as part of a business,
00:09:09as part of a business approach, similar problems arise, because
00:09:12it might lead to the almost liquidation of classical
00:09:15bureaucracy. At this point, in the framework
00:09:18we have reached, the application of the existing
00:09:21constitution and laws in Turkey
00:09:24really carries an urgency. We need to focus on this in particular.
00:09:28However, this process also needs to be organized correctly.
00:09:32So, in Turkey, you see,
00:09:35we discussed for a year whether it would be annulled or not.
00:09:38We discussed it on Halk TV screens as well. In the end, it happened.
00:09:42We need to remove the phrase "they wouldn't do so much" from our vocabulary.
00:09:45But we shouldn't be in this surrender:
00:09:49"Oh, even if there are elections, the outcome won't change,
00:09:53elections will happen this way or that way." The moment that is said,
00:09:56it's the acceptance of defeat
00:09:59in a mental sense, because democracy is not a tramway for us,
00:10:03it's a way of life. We have to protect our way of life,
00:10:06otherwise we cannot breathe. But of course, this is not easy,
00:10:09there are many dimensions to it. What is being discussed today
00:10:13is related to that. Can you imagine that the Parliament
00:10:16report states that the constitution and laws
00:10:19are not being applied? Can there be such an absurdity?
00:10:23This is actually terrifying, it's not being applied. Of course, they don't say it like this,
00:10:26but they use different words, you know. We saw it,
00:10:29just now in the commission report, it says that the decisions
00:10:33of the Constitutional Court and the European Court of Human Rights
00:10:36must be applied. I mean, they should already be applied. Now I know which words
00:10:40to use to express it. It is stated there that the decisions are binding,
00:10:43Article 90 of the constitution is clear. No, Article 90 of the constitution
00:10:47exists even before the report. It also emphasizes that pre-trial detention
00:10:50should be an exception. So, it actually refers to
00:10:53existing principles. It says, "We are not doing these things."
00:10:57There is such an absurdity. What does it mean, "Let's apply the rules"?
00:11:01They are not being applied. They should be applied. This absurdity
00:11:04must be overcome. But the mental process is extremely important.
00:11:08Of course, why is the new party's position here decisive? Because
00:11:11the new party is a game-changer, a structure that changes the game.
00:11:15It's a structure that doesn't stay in Ankara, doesn't surrender to learned
00:11:18helplessness, doesn't surrender to rote learning. It doesn't suit them at all, because
00:11:21they want, let me summarize, the expanded alliance.
00:11:25Look, a fresh, brand-new member.
00:11:28They want a bureaucratic tutelary body like the CHP.
00:11:31That is, a political party that will serve
00:11:34the ruling party, as in the East German constitution.
00:11:38This is their own choice, their majesties' opposition. Exactly, in that sense,
00:11:42we leave them to their choice, but I think history will write
00:11:46about the game-changing move in a much more important way
00:12:08the government's goal in 2024 since the 2024 local elections
00:12:11will be a new constitution, exiting the presidential
00:12:14system and returning to the parliamentary
00:12:17social consensus by using this. Of course, here the goal
00:12:21is not so much democracy as the fear of losing in this system.
00:12:25That is, the fear of losing in the current system,
00:12:28and taking a precaution for the future. Emre Şirin contributed to us
00:13:16Turkey is full of illegalities. Now, I was in Şafşat last time.
00:13:20In Şafşat, we have a teacher.
00:13:23We have Müzekkir Hodja.
00:13:27Müzekkir Hodja and our sister Fikri.
00:13:31No, I won't mention them. They have a daughter in prison.
00:13:33She's in Andırra No. 1 Fetip. She was arrested in 1992,
00:13:37she was arrested at the age of 24. She served 30 years of her sentence,
00:13:40meaning whatever the punishment for her crime was,
00:13:42she served it. And it's been 35
00:13:46years, and she still can't be released. Why?
00:13:50"Because she's using the right to appeal, she's not obeying. Why?
00:13:53She's not participating in the Imam education program."
00:13:56"This is not an appeal report, it's a mihal report."
00:13:59This is what's being done to Selçuk Kozaağaçlı.
00:14:03Now, she has served 30 years,
00:14:07she has served her sentence, and for 5
00:14:09more years, she still cannot be released.
00:14:13Now, looking at this situation,
00:14:16there are many people like her, many people like our friend Sevgi.
00:14:20Since we are talking about many things, these illegalities
00:14:23should also be eliminated. I mean,
00:14:27why are you keeping a person who has served their sentence
00:14:30in prison for an extra 5 years? What heartlessness,
00:14:34what unlawfulness, what injustice is this?
00:14:37Yes, Seraf Hanım, does it happen technically
00:14:41like this? Even if they have served their sentence,
00:14:45does a committee need to give a report for them to be released?
00:14:48They get a prison evaluation
00:14:51report. Selçuk Bey, as you know, was released. He was taken back
00:14:55a day later, and there they said
00:14:58he was not ready to rejoin society, not rehabilitated. So, they created
00:15:01such a formula. By the way,
00:15:04there are many such people.
00:15:08I chatted with someone in this sense, and they told me,
00:15:12"I stayed in prison for decades. Yes, I knew I was there unjustly
00:15:15due to political reasons. But what bothered me most
00:15:18despite completing my sentence was reasons
00:15:22like these." They can prolong the process
00:15:33with a letter written by the prison director. Alper Hodja, what do you say about the new constitution?
00:15:37I mean, it's mentioned a lot. Everyone
00:15:41says, "Brother, if you don't apply the current constitution,
00:15:44then a new one." But it looks like such an agenda is coming.
00:15:48Now, the new constitution agenda seems to benefit the People's Alliance.
00:15:52Yes, you know, this government has always built
00:15:55previous processes around constitutional debates and divided
00:15:58politics and polarized it through constitutional debates.
00:16:01We experienced this most concretely with the September 12, 2010
00:16:05constitutional amendment process. Because
00:16:08they have such a discourse, they develop such
00:16:12a political understanding, saying, "Sir,
00:16:15there is a tutelary regime in Turkey, we need to abolish
00:16:18the tutelary regime. As long as the September 12
00:16:22constitution remains, the tutelary regime does not disappear."
00:16:25"If we make a civil constitution for September 12, then the tutelary regime,
00:16:28this struggle against the tutelary regime," and so they established
00:16:32strange tutelages over us. Judicial tutelage is the main one.
00:16:35I mean, in September 12, 2010, they were supposedly
00:16:39going to abolish judicial tutelage, now they are carrying out political operations
00:16:43through the judiciary. They increased judicial
00:16:46tutelage, they raised its level. The executive became monopolized,
00:16:49that is, an executive tutelage was formed, the parliament
00:16:53became dysfunctional. Now we look at the AKP's constitutional
00:16:56practices. Can a party with these practices
00:16:59make a democratic, libertarian constitution? Is this possible? Do they have such a mindset?
00:17:03Do they have such an understanding? Do they have such a perspective?
00:17:06Now, a constitution.
00:17:17Not every civil constitution is democratic, brother.
00:17:21The word "civil" is not a magic word. It's not like
00:17:24if we, civilians, make the constitution, it becomes democratic.
00:17:27There's no such approach. They did it on September 12, 2010.
00:17:31Was it democratic? Now, the September 12,
00:17:34or rather, April 15 referendum?
00:17:37"There was a constitutional amendment. The July 15
00:17:41coup attempt was seen as an opportunity.
00:17:44Wasn't there going to be a referendum change on April 16? The republic would win,
00:17:48democracy would win, freedoms would win.
00:17:51It's the exact opposite. We've been going downhill
00:17:54ever since that referendum. Now, the AKP cannot
00:17:57make a democratic constitution. Debating the constitution
00:18:01with the AKP is absurd. But the AKP will steer
00:18:04the process in this direction. And with the Kurdish movement,
00:18:08I mean, the Kurdish movement, Seraf Hanım,
00:18:12sometimes objects outside, but I'm not saying it will be confined
00:18:16or evolve into that. I'm talking about the AKP's intention.
00:18:18The AKP's intention in this process is to make a constitutional
00:18:22amendment with the Kurdish movement, because it has no chance
00:18:25of making this amendment without them.
00:18:29It will try to steer the process
00:18:33towards this. That's its intention.
00:18:36It's an approach to make the regime permanent
00:18:39through a constitutional amendment. This is actually the dialogue
00:18:43with Öcalan. This is an important element
00:18:47of negotiations with Öcalan. We cannot talk by rejecting these.
00:18:50This also happened in previous processes. Look,
00:18:53read Öcalan's meeting minutes, it's there.
00:18:57Öcalan said, "We accept the presidential system, it's not
00:19:00an issue for us." But the political
00:19:04cadre of the Kurdish Movement, Kandil and Selahattin Demirtaş especially.
00:19:16But that's a reality. What happened in the end?
00:19:20The table was overturned, and as a result, Turkey went
00:19:24in a completely different direction. The reason
00:19:26Selahattin Demirtaş has been in prison for so many years
00:19:29illegally is that he did not agree to the presidential regime.
00:19:33The Kurdish movement did not agree to the presidential regime at that time.
00:19:37Okay, peace, okay. But the presidential
00:19:40regime is not a democratic
00:19:43approach, and it is already evident that the presidential regime
00:19:47is not a democratic practice. Now, naturally,
00:19:51the AKP's intention is not democratization. Yes to peace,
00:19:54but let's not expect democracy from this.
00:19:58This democracy can only be the product of the common struggle of Turks, Kurds,
00:20:01and all oppressed laborers. So, let there be peace
00:20:05- amen. A Turkey without terror,
00:20:09okay. Why not a democratic Turkey? I mean, why
00:20:11not bread, why not justice,
00:20:15why not democracy, but only a Turkey without terror?
00:20:18We are in a discussion at this point. Let there be disarmament,
00:20:22let the period of armed conflict end, but let there be democracy.
00:20:25The AKP has no intention
00:20:29or vision for democracy. That's why what we need to do
00:20:32is not to expect democracy from the AKP. Since the AKP has no such vision,
00:20:35the issue is to defeat this AKP with a united struggle.
00:20:39Without defeating this AKP, Turkey's democratization
00:20:43will not be possible. Within Turkey's
00:20:46democratization, a democratic solution to the Kurdish question
00:20:50will not be possible either. I am a socialist. Forget peace, I want a democratic
00:20:53solution to the Kurdish question. I have always said that there is a Kurdish nation,
00:20:57and this nation has democratic rights, which have been usurped,
00:21:01and these have not been met in due course. It's clear.
00:21:04We are not saying this for the first time, friends. The Turkish socialist movement
00:21:08has been saying this since the 60s. Our comrades are saying this.
00:21:11This is a reality. There is a reality called the Kurdish
00:21:14nation. Now, we have the chance to solve the reality of the Kurdish nation
00:21:18within a democratic nation-state. Now, Kurds don't want separation,
00:21:22Kurds don't want an independent Kurdistan. They want to live
00:21:25together with us on the basis of equal citizenship.
00:21:29How natural, how humane, how conscientious is this?
00:21:33But the AKP will not do this. The AKP's vision does not include
00:21:37a democratic solution to the Kurdish question. It includes the elimination
00:21:40of the terrorist organization, and by taking it under its wing,
00:21:43by burning it in the region. We cannot talk by skipping these phrases.
00:21:47We are saying, "Let's look at this side too,"
00:21:50otherwise we are not opposing the disarmament aspect of the process.
00:21:54Are these phrases meaningless? Is it called "Ummah unity"?
00:21:57Turkish, Kurdish, Arab Ummah unity.
00:22:01Not only the government says this, but also various elements
00:22:04of the Kurdish movement, even Öcalan uses these terms,
00:22:08brother. Now, are we not going to stand up and say,
00:22:12"What are you doing?" What is the end of this process?
00:22:15What does "Ummah unity" mean? What does "Ottoman nation" mean?
00:22:19We won't discuss these,
00:22:26we won't ask these. Oh, a vice president should be Alevi,
00:22:30and another should be Kurd. Why can't a Kurd be president,
00:22:33but only an assistant? Will we apply the Lublin model?
00:22:37The issue is this: the nation-state,
00:22:40the nation-state mentality of the Republic of Turkey has collapsed.
00:22:42This nation-state understanding cannot continue.
00:22:46But the alternative today is not secession, forming a separate state,
00:22:50or independence. This is not a correct solution either.
00:22:53This is also being said. So how will we turn this nation-state
00:22:57into a democratic state based on equal citizenship?
00:23:00That is the issue. Now, we say this government will not
00:23:03do this. Let them prove us wrong. They never proved us wrong. For 25
00:23:07years, whatever we said, we never felt ashamed
00:23:10or embarrassed by what we said. I wish we had been embarrassed.
00:23:14Here, of course, by Kurdish nation,
00:23:17we mean an existence in the sense of a nation-state.
00:23:36When I say that the mentality has collapsed, I am criticizing
00:23:39the point reached in terms of democratic legitimacy
00:23:43and democracy standards. That's why I'm saying this.
00:23:47They express it. He states
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00:30:36"openly continues, meanwhile uh Erdoğan and
00:30:39Bahçeli met today uh and again it was announced
00:30:43during the day that they would meet uh that meeting lasted about
00:30:4650 minutes,
00:30:50their last meeting lasted about 45 minutes, they probably
00:30:54discussed the framework law again, they evaluated the latest situation.
00:30:58Fikret Abi, of course..."