Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00you are turning it into the narrative of an action movie,
00:00:03whereas there is a great opportunity here for
00:00:07all opposition parties in such a way that
00:00:10a narrative can be established that in Turkey, the accountability
00:00:14of state institutions, the institutional responsibility
00:00:18capacity, the anger created in public opinion,
00:00:21the anger created in public opinion,
00:00:24this terrible relationship
00:00:27that they established with money,
00:00:30how it can turn into a voting
00:00:34capacity, this is a huge opportunity for
00:00:37opposition parties, but if you evaluate this
00:00:40through individuals, then you give the government
00:00:43an opportunity to establish such a big narrative.
00:00:47It can become such a situation that in political
00:00:50communication, the most important thing is this: if there is a fraud,
00:00:54if there is a robbery,
00:00:57next week? When we see if there is a negative perception.
00:01:00Then as the opposition, who in power
00:01:03claims this and how? In other words,
00:01:06through whom is the reflection of this fraud
00:01:09in public opinion? If you reduce this
00:01:12to individuals who can even appear as victims
00:01:16of the fund, then this narrative
00:01:19will create a ground where the anger it creates
00:01:22in the voters cannot turn into voting
00:01:26capacity and mobilization.
00:01:29The whole point is to open up for discussion
00:01:32the ground that the current government has created against
00:01:36the citizen, not only economically, but
00:01:39also socially, in terms of justice,
00:01:42and economically. This is actually
00:01:46the duty of the opposition. If you reduce this
00:01:49to Fatma Betül Sayankaya, if you reduce this to an X fund manager,
00:01:53if you reduce this to a Y minister, then
00:01:56you will miss a huge communication opportunity. Then.
00:02:00The government side can come out and say,
00:02:03"Look, Tayyip Erdoğan, the head of our government,
00:02:06identified these names, took
00:02:09responsibility for the fund fraud, and
00:02:12chopped off their heads, and strengthened
00:02:16his leadership capacity, not only to his
00:02:19own voters, but also to the floating
00:02:23voters, the undecided voters, and the voters
00:02:26who model their voting behavior with the perception
00:02:29of power,
00:02:32However, he is you create an opportunity for them, and if this narrative continues,
00:02:35Tayyip Erdoğan can become such a figure
00:02:39that a terrible fraud has been committed,
00:02:42yes, some institutions in the state have made
00:02:45some negligences, but Tayyip Erdoğan saw these
00:02:48negligences and immediately fired everyone,
00:02:51punished them, and presented a leader
00:02:55as a symbol of power to the public,
00:02:59thus in Turkey, in voting behavior
00:03:01where leadership capacity is very
00:03:05dominant, you miss a huge opportunity.
00:03:08Therefore, I think this framing
00:03:12is done from a very wrong place. It is necessary
00:03:16to explain to the citizens with very clear and simple
00:03:20sentences how big a systematic crisis
00:03:23and a systematic continuity-
00:03:26requiring crisis this is in terms of
00:03:30accountability and auditability for state institutions.
00:03:33Because unfortunately, and since
00:03:37factors determining voter behavior is leadership
00:03:41capacity, and leadership capacity is shaped
00:03:44by the perception of power. If this
00:03:48narrative continues like this, then a leader
00:03:51will emerge, render the names in this
00:03:55narrative dysfunctional, punish them, show
00:03:58a few people as responsible, and this
00:04:02can be interpreted as a great opportunity being
00:04:05after this, big risk here. I will
00:04:08also ask a question to Professor Yalçın. I will come to you,
00:04:11hocam. Of course, we have this, Mrs. Ceren
00:04:15said something very correct, there is a system issue here,
00:04:18what we need to change is this. Also, there is an expectation
00:04:22from the public, I will ask Professor Yalçın about that.
00:04:26If there is a crime, we need to see the perpetrator. We are
00:04:30asking for the list of 214 people because there cannot be a trial
00:04:33or an investigation by hiding the criminals. So, we know
00:04:37it won't be announced, that's why we ask both Professor
00:04:41Yalçın and Cumhur, you were probably going to ask that too,
00:04:44when they don't announce it, does the opposition consider
00:04:47announcing the information they have to the public again
00:04:51in such a compiled way? Because this needs to turn into
00:04:54a case. What kind of path will they follow to force this?
00:04:58Let's ask both Professor Yalçın
00:05:02and Cumhur. Before asking, Özgür Özel,
00:05:05had you completed the new party general? Let my friends bring
00:05:09visual number 3 for this. Let's ask these questions
00:05:20asked by Bahadır Özgür to both Mr. Uzun and Mr. Karatepe.
00:05:23Because the demand in this direction continues to come from all
00:05:27segments of society. Now, it says that the government's chemistry
00:05:30has been disrupted regarding the fund crisis. Now, Ömer Çelik's
00:05:33statements, dear viewers, we will discuss
00:05:37today whether the AK Party will follow a different
00:05:41path politically in the coming days,
00:05:44whether a period of struggle is starting.
00:05:47He had statements that brought this to the agenda. Now, you
00:05:50must have watched Ömer Çelik. You saw the panic, the body
00:05:54language, the tension, the haste of the criminals.
00:05:57They said, "From now on, we are in the highest
00:06:00struggle and alarm position legally and politically."
00:06:04Now, what does this mean? We will ask that. After
00:06:07he said that, four journalists were banned from their freedom.
00:06:11Our friend Mustafa from Sözcü newspaper posted a concert
00:06:15photo of Ömer Çelik from his vacation with Nacar in Bodrum.
00:06:18The event is real, the news is real, the photo is real,
00:06:20but those who expose this are put in jail, not those
00:06:24who swindled the nation. They opened an account,
00:06:28and Mrs. Fatma deposited the principal with interest,
00:06:31and the rest she graciously donated. Is there such a thing
00:06:35as a "door of repentance" in a democracy, in a state
00:06:39of law? Now, I will ask Mr. Uzun, as a lawyer,
00:06:42this. Is there such a thing as a "fund of repentance",
00:06:46a "door of repentance"? Let me read Özgür Özel's own
00:06:50sentence again. He says: "Is there such a thing as
00:06:53a door of repentance in a democracy, in a state of law?"
00:06:56They say, "We opened an account, let those who succumbed to their
00:07:00desires put the money here, we will not go after them."
00:07:04Mr. Uzun, as a lawyer, I ask you this question,
00:07:06how do you interpret it? Özgür Özel asks if there
00:07:10is such a thing as a door of repentance. What is your
00:07:13answer to this question?
00:07:14Bahadır Özgür asked,
00:07:17"Now, if the government does not disclose it,
00:07:20what will the opposition do to force it, what
00:07:24steps will it take?" Yes, of course, the main
00:07:28reason for the work done so far is this. If we
00:07:31had not disclosed it, it would not have been possible
00:07:35for the public to know about Fatma Betül Sayankaya's name
00:07:39and the process leading to her extradition as of today. We will
00:07:43of course create a situation where the government will
00:07:45be obliged to confirm the accuracy of the shared
00:07:48information by sharing every piece of information
00:07:51we have with the public on behalf of our citizens,
00:07:54to whom we are obligated to serve. We are also
00:07:58receiving information. We are making confirmations
00:08:02within the framework of this information flow. In order
00:08:06to prevent any grievances, we are gradually disclosing
00:08:09this information after the checks are completed.
00:08:12However, we are also reminding those who have
00:08:15this information what they need to do. We are
00:08:19saying, "If there is a crime, and if you, as a public
00:08:22official, have become aware that this crime has been
00:08:26committed, you are obliged to report it
00:08:29to those who are responsible for investigating the crime.
00:08:32Otherwise, you will also be committing
00:08:35a crime." What crime? The crime of not reporting
00:08:39an action that you know is a crime to the relevant
00:08:43units is clearly written in the Turkish Penal Code.
00:08:46When it comes to politics, we must
00:08:49ensure that not even 1 lira
00:08:52of public money is stolen.
00:08:55One of the most effective duties of
00:08:58the opposition is to expose everything
00:09:02that the government does with the power it has, for its
00:09:06own interests but against the citizen,
00:09:09and even to prevent actions that could
00:09:12harm the citizen by reporting these
00:09:16methods of struggle to the prosecutors.
00:09:19This is expected from the opposition. As of
00:09:23today, what is expected from the opposition
00:09:26is that whoever was involved in this
00:09:29fund, without any exception,
00:09:33without protection, should be revealed. The public is waiting
00:09:36for anyone who has an eye on the
00:09:40citizen's money,
00:09:43whether they are politicians or relatives, to be revealed
00:09:47one by one. They want to ask
00:09:51for accountability, "Why did they rob me?"
00:09:54Of course, they will ask this politically and legally. Let's
00:09:58come to the issue of repentance. In law,
00:10:01there has never been a concept of being
00:10:05absolved from crime by repenting, and it is
00:10:08not possible for it to happen in the future,
00:10:12if we are still a state of law. However,
00:10:15since we are governed by a management approach
00:10:18that does not see itself as an element of the state
00:10:21of law, let's see what else we will see.
00:10:25While those with political responsibility are distancing
00:10:28themselves from their political responsibilities by saying,
00:10:32"May God forgive us," there are efforts in Turkey
00:10:35to make those who robbed the nation irresponsible
00:10:38or to protect them by making regulations in this
00:10:41regard. Such a thing cannot happen. As a lawyer,
00:10:45I would also like to ask this in the Turkish Penal
00:10:49Code, I mean, I would like to add this to my
00:10:51questions. For example, does voluntary return, does
00:10:55this decision or this call have a legal basis?
00:10:58There are some provisions in the Turkish Penal Code
00:11:01regulating voluntary return. For example, in fraud
00:11:05crimes, for example, in embezzlement crimes, if
00:11:08you return the benefit you obtained before the
00:11:11investigation authorities take action, note that
00:11:15it is not a reason to eliminate the crime,
00:11:18but it allows it to be considered as a reason
00:11:22for reduction. There is no regulation
00:11:25in the Turkish Penal Code that completely eliminates
00:11:28a crime after it has been committed by returning
00:11:32the money or the stolen goods. They might try
00:11:36to introduce such a thing by making a new
00:11:38regulation, but such a regulation would have no place
00:11:42in a state of law and in the fundamental
00:11:46principles of criminal law, and it would
00:11:49also be unconstitutional. For example,
00:11:53just as you would not
00:11:55accept someone being absolved from a crime
00:11:59simply by returning a television they stole,
00:12:02because here it is not the television,
00:12:05or the television is not the basis
00:12:08of punishment in the theft of a television, the punishment is the
00:12:12sanction for the disruption of public order
00:12:15caused by the theft of the television,
00:12:19otherwise, you do not undo everything
00:12:22as soon as you return it. Of course,
00:12:25there are cases where the return has been
00:12:29made a reason for reduction, but it does not eliminate
00:12:32the crime. For this reason, what is intended
00:12:36to be done now, during the law that
00:12:39will be discussed in parliament next week,
00:12:42is to completely eliminate the crime through
00:12:45the voluntary return of money, and even
00:12:49to try to bring in regulations that
00:12:52are contrary to law and would not be
00:12:55compatible with a state of law, such as
00:12:59not conducting any investigation against
00:13:01them. One reason for not disclosing
00:13:05these names is that there is a feeling
00:13:08that they will feel secure and commit
00:13:11these acts after this legal regulation
00:13:14is made. I hope I am wrong about
00:13:17this, but I have a strong feeling that
00:13:21after the law is passed next week,
00:13:23or after the law is enacted,
00:13:27people will bring back some of these
00:13:31ill-gotten gains, and since the public
00:13:35has no information about how much this
00:13:38is, they will put themselves in the status
00:13:40of those who repent with a certain amount
00:13:43of money they bring, and then they will
00:13:47try to be acquitted by not taking any action against
00:13:50them without disclosing their names. However,
00:13:54each of these people is so close to
00:13:58the government that they can get information
00:14:01from inside, even the President's chief
00:14:04of staff is among them. We are talking
00:14:07about a fraud that involves all those
00:14:10who have access to information. Look,
00:14:13in any other democratic country, a country
00:14:16that does not have a weakened system
00:14:20of governance like ours, if this happened,
00:14:23there would be no government left,
00:14:26no one to do their job. All
00:14:29of them would be taken into custody
00:14:33as part of an effective investigation,
00:14:36and politically, the government would
00:14:40not be able to recover from this,
00:14:43they would have to resign. We are
00:14:47actually seeing the consequences of the
00:14:50damage we inflicted on our country
00:14:53by making a constitutional amendment after the
00:14:562017 constitutional amendment, which strengthened
00:14:59the executive's authority over the judiciary
00:15:03and legislature, and abolished the
00:15:06separation of powers, despite our explanations
00:15:10at the time that such damages could
00:15:13arise. If there were a completely
00:15:16independent judiciary, these people would
00:15:20already have been summoned as part
00:15:23of an investigation, and all their names
00:15:26and identities would have been very
00:15:29clearly revealed to the public,
00:15:33and politically, depending on their
00:15:37connections, the government would have
00:15:40become a government that wronged its
00:15:42people because it was aware of this
00:15:46recklessness, this behavior that allowed
00:15:50the people to be robbed, or,
00:15:54assuming it was done without its
00:15:57knowledge, which I say with good
00:16:01intentions, it would have become clear
00:16:04that it could not govern the country,
00:16:07that it was unaware of what was happening
00:16:11in the country, and that it had
00:16:14not taken protective measures despite
00:16:16creating a ground for these things
00:16:20to happen in the country. This would
00:16:23also mean that it had to resign
00:16:26due to being a short-sighted government.
00:16:30But we will continue this struggle to
00:16:34the end. As for Mr. Özgür's question,
00:16:38we will share all the information we
00:16:42receive with the public, thus giving the
00:16:46government the opportunity to expose this
00:16:49robbery and those who turned a blind
00:16:53eye to those who participated in this
00:16:56robbery, with all their accomplices.
00:16:59If they do not use this opportunity,
00:17:03we will continue to share them
00:17:06with the public as partners in
00:17:10this matter. This
00:17:12was important, Mr. Uzun gave the headline.
00:17:16I'm going to take a break now. A little
00:17:20later, Bahadır Özgür had a question. Let
00:17:23start, and we will
00:17:27continue after the break. Would Bahadır Özgür
00:17:30briefly remind us of his question again?
00:17:34His question was similar to what
00:17:37I asked Mr. Cumhur, but we already said
00:17:41that the professor is also saying that
00:17:45if there is a crime here, we need to
00:17:48see the perpetrator. There can be no
00:17:51trial without a perpetrator. What kind of strategy will the new
00:17:55party follow in this regard
00:17:58to force this? We already asked
00:18:00Mr. Cumhur about that. Maybe Professor
00:18:04Yalçın said that new names will
00:18:11be announced. Mr. Karatepe, we have 1.5 minutes,
00:18:14we will continue after the break,
00:18:17please. Yes, I would like
00:18:21to speak first after the break,
00:18:24because I have a lot to say.
00:18:28Briefly, I would like to make
00:18:31an evaluation by referring to an
00:18:34expression used by Ms. Ceren a
00:18:38little while ago. Ms. Ceren is
00:18:41a very competent political communicator
00:19:27whom I also watch on screens. However,
00:19:31I do not think it is correct to
00:19:35define this process as a crisis.
00:19:39Because what we call a crisis
00:19:42is usually something that arises from
00:19:46factors that we cannot control.
00:19:49For example, a war has broken
00:19:53out between Russia and Ukraine,
00:19:56there is something in wheat trade,
00:19:59etc. Here, there is a fraud
00:20:03and a robbery, let's call it what it is.
00:20:07There is a process that has been
00:20:11created knowingly, willingly, by controlling
00:20:15and intervening in every stage.
00:20:18Therefore, although I am
00:20:22not a communicator, "crisis" sounded
00:20:25a bit mild to me. This should
00:20:28not be defined with milder words
00:20:31like "negligence" or "fault,"
00:20:34because there is not negligence
00:20:37here, but a fabricated mechanism.
00:20:41The purpose of this mechanism
00:20:45is to transfer the source of
00:20:48the majority of those 400,
00:20:52455 thousand people to a
00:20:55limited segment. I will say
00:20:59this and then go into more
00:21:02detail on the other topic in
00:21:05the second half. Well, it was
00:21:09just time for a break, we
00:21:12will return with very critical questions,
00:21:15there are also questions from you,
00:21:18we will ask them too, first
00:21:22a short break. Yes, we are
00:21:26together again after a break,
00:21:29the floor is yours, it continues,
00:21:32we are starting our second hour,
00:21:36another valuable journalist is joining
00:21:40our very valuable guests, BirGün
00:21:43newspaper's news coordinator Yaşar Aydın
00:21:46is also with us in this
00:21:50section, welcome. Now, before
00:21:53we went to the break,
00:21:56Professor Doctor Yalçın Karatepe
00:21:59was speaking, and I interrupted
00:22:02him, and on the other hand,
00:22:06today Murat Emir,
00:22:08who is also a lawyer and
00:22:12a deputy,
00:22:14had asked some questions. For example,
00:22:18is there a procedure in criminal
00:22:22law where organized fraud
00:22:25can be closed with a "pay
00:22:29the money and get away" bargain?
00:22:33Who has paid back how much
00:22:36so far, and why is it
00:22:40not being announced? Were account
00:22:42freezes and immovable property
00:22:46measures applied against these
00:22:50individuals within the scope of
00:22:54CMK 1228? Were trustees
00:22:58appointed to 73 companies? Many
00:23:01such questions were asked legally,
00:23:05of course, we will ask these
00:23:09to Mr. Uzun. Mr. Karatepe,
00:23:13please complete your speech.
00:23:16Now, Ms. Bilge, before the
00:23:20break, you were talking
00:23:23about this voluntary money return
00:23:26issue. Since I first heard
00:23:30about this, that is, since
00:23:33the Capital Markets Board announced
00:23:37its decision on this matter,
00:23:40I have been thinking a lot
00:23:43about what they intend here, what they are
00:23:47trying to achieve, and I have
00:23:51reached the following conclusion. Let's
00:23:54remember this stock,
00:23:56that is, Ms. Fatma Sayan
00:24:00Kaya was involved in this
00:24:032.2 billion additional gain
00:24:07from the stock price increase.
00:24:11The list of those who manipulated
00:24:13that stock, that is, those
00:24:16who distorted the price and
00:24:20took it to different places
00:24:23than it should have been,
00:24:26was published by the Capital Markets
00:24:30Board, and the names of each of them
00:24:33were published, the money amounts
00:24:37were written, and it was
00:24:40said that in order to
00:24:43benefit from effective remorse,
00:24:47they had to pay twice
00:24:50the amounts here,
00:24:54etc., referring to
00:24:58the relevant law. Look, since
00:25:01Ms. Fatma Betül's name was announced,
00:25:05it was not added to that list, right? when addressing type situations,
00:25:09conceptually, what we use,
00:25:12in political science and political communication, I used
00:25:16the word crisis because we approach it like a crisis, otherwise, of course.
00:25:20undoubtedly, this is a very big emphasis. Well, now let me
00:25:24ask Mr. Cumhur this very briefly. Our viewers
00:25:27are also sending many messages, for example,
00:25:30there are those who remind of CMB Law Article 107/3.
00:25:33For effective remorse, as my teacher Yalçın also
00:25:37stated earlier, at least two times the profit must be paid directly
00:25:41to the treasury. Moreover, this
00:25:44is a separate discussion whether it nullifies the penalty or not. That is, it only
00:25:48halves it, as far as we know.
00:25:50So, my friends are asking this in the title, let me ask Mr. Uzun.
00:25:54After that, I will take the evaluations
00:25:58Does voluntary return, for example, cover up the crime, Mr. Uzun,
00:26:01as a lawyer?
00:26:04It never covers it. And because it is known
00:26:07that it will not cover it, the government is making
00:26:11some effort. In democracies,
00:26:14actually, it is very natural, even obligatory,
00:26:18for the government to come and inform the parliament
00:26:21and present information about what will be done
00:26:24or what is happening under that information.
00:26:28It is one of the obligatory things,
00:26:31but we have never seen
00:26:34this government being generous in informing
00:26:38the parliament before.
00:26:41We had never, never, never seen it.
00:26:44Very rarely, in some very special
00:26:47cases, some of them even arranged
00:26:50as closed meetings, we had seen the parliament being informed,
00:26:53especially when
00:26:57national security was at stake. But pay attention.
00:27:00Last week, President
00:27:04Vice President Mr. Cevdet
00:27:08Yılmaz came to the parliament and made a presentation
00:27:12about the fund crisis. You remember, because this
00:27:16was not a very ordinary way of behaving,
00:27:19we paid a little more attention.
00:27:22Although it was presented as a meeting
00:27:25for the purpose of informing the parliament and the opposition,
00:27:29we will see in its content and between the lines
00:27:32that there is a need
00:27:36for a new legal regulation related to this,
00:27:39and that this regulation,
00:27:42the regulation that is intended to be made,
00:27:46will be a legal regulation
00:27:50that will also include the acquittal of those who are currently involved
00:27:54in this matter, as my teacher Yalçın also
00:27:57said, in the proposal that will come and be discussed
00:28:01next week, and between the lines.
00:28:04The government, by coming, was aware
00:28:08that if this matter was handled within the existing
00:28:11rules, the people
00:28:15very close to it could not be protected,
00:28:18so this time it ordered a law
00:28:21from the parliament based on this information,
00:28:25almost. It said that if these funds
00:28:28are liquidated by ordinary methods,
00:28:31it is possible, but an extraordinary situation is being experienced,
00:28:35and there is a need for a regulation
00:28:38regarding this extraordinary situation. And it came to the parliament
00:28:41almost to order that need.
00:28:44It meant to say, "I presented
00:28:48the information about this to the parliament. There is an action
00:28:51to be taken by the parliament based on this information. We are bringing that too.
00:28:55We did that by informing
00:28:58the parliament about its support. You, as the opposition,
00:29:02and the opposition parties, wanted
00:29:06to solve this in this extraordinary situation without
00:29:09scratching it too much, and resolve it with a new law.
00:29:12In no way, even if the entire
00:29:16amount of money were returned, even if two times the amount were returned,
00:29:20it would not completely eliminate the existing
00:29:23crime. This
00:29:25is that clear. Therefore, there is
00:29:28a necessity to conduct an investigation
00:29:32regarding the existing crime, and its criminal sanction
00:29:36must also be applied. Now, when this sanction
00:29:39is applied, due to the fact that
00:29:43the amounts in question have reached such large figures,
00:29:46the impossibility of returning two times
00:29:50the amount has been seen, if it were possible to earn 1 million
00:29:53and pay 2 million to qualify for a reduction due to the crime,
00:29:57then the matter would not come to the parliament or a new
00:30:01law at all. "Since very large sums of money were earned,
00:30:04and because the government felt obliged to protect
00:30:07those who earned that money, it came and informed
00:30:10the parliament, and then ordered a law.
00:30:14Next week, within the law, they probably want to
00:30:18arrange a provision stating that if those who earned
00:30:22the profit voluntarily return
00:30:25it, no investigation will be conducted
00:30:28against them. But
00:30:30neither does the Penal Code allow
00:30:34this, nor does a state
00:30:38of law allow this, nor does our constitution permit
00:30:42it. As I said earlier, once a crime is committed,
00:30:45you cannot reverse that crime, there is a crime. Yes.
00:30:49Even if two times the amount of money is paid for this crime,
00:30:53and I don't think they can pay two times the amount, because these are enormous
00:30:57figures, even if two times is paid,
00:31:01there is no possibility of completely eliminating
00:31:04it. When the law related to this comes next week,
00:31:08we will be able to talk
00:31:11about what is truly intended here very easily
00:31:15by looking at the matter.
00:31:18We estimate that this is what is intended at this stage,
00:31:22but you will see that we will not
00:31:25be mistaken in this estimate,
00:31:28because before any bill, the government
00:31:32was very stingy about informing the parliament.
00:31:35The fact that the Vice President himself
00:31:38came and did this
00:31:42already indicates the sensitivity of the issue
00:31:45and that something that should not happen
00:31:49in a state of law will be requested, in my opinion.
00:31:51With this attention, I will also focus on this
00:31:55during the parliamentary work next week,
00:31:58and we will continue to openly
00:32:01share what is intended with the public through
00:32:05you. Now,
00:32:09what does the government intend
00:32:12that proposal, as far as we understand...
00:32:15both us, and lawyers, and politicians, and the opposition,
00:32:19especially the new party, will see this. As Mr. Uzun stated.
00:32:23Now, at this point, will the AKP
00:32:26follow a new strategy? As of the point
00:32:29we have reached. Now, one of the names
00:32:33that have been talked about again in recent days,
00:32:35Ömer Çelik, is asking this question.
00:32:39Last August, a photo came to the agenda
00:32:43showing him with Osman Arıkan Nacar.
00:32:46And because of that photo, Sözcü reporter
00:32:50Mustafa Balcı and Şaban Sevinç,
00:32:53who shared it on social media, were arrested,
00:32:57you will remember. Therefore, while it was wondered
00:33:01what Ömer Çelik would say about this,
00:33:04Ömer Çelik made a statement
00:33:07saying, "We are moving to the highest level of struggle."
00:33:10What does the highest level of struggle
00:33:14mean legally
00:33:17and politically against these? Now, I will also take comments
00:33:20on this, but let me ask our director to play the statement for us first, let it come
00:33:24to the screens.
00:33:26We will especially fight to the end against the theft network
00:33:30organized and established through municipalities
00:33:34in the new party. Against this attack
00:33:37on our President, our party, and our cabinet,
00:33:41we are moving to the highest level of struggle.
00:33:44Okay. So, what would Yaşar Aydın say from the AKP's perspective,
00:33:47and how would he interpret this statement? Will the best
00:33:50defense be offense strategy come into play here? What
00:33:53do you say? Well, actually, the fund started as a scandal, as plunder,
00:33:57but now it has turned into a regime crisis.
00:34:00That is, it turned directly into an internal
00:34:03AKP matter, and it has turned into a serious problem not only
00:34:07between the AKP and the opposition, or the AKP and the public,
00:34:10but also within the AKP itself, and they are trying to solve
00:34:14The coming law is trying to cover one side
00:34:18of the AKP or the People's Alliance or the regime,
00:34:21while the other side does not allow it to be fully closed, wanting it to continue
00:34:25as a controlled tension. It is not possible to understand
00:34:28what is intended from the AKP and from within the government,
00:34:31but now in a place where there are so many
00:34:35threats, the government undoubtedly needs to play hardball.
00:34:39That is, if it were only a matter of the new party, if it were only a few
00:34:42journalists, and if it were only a few people, names,
00:34:45they would not exaggerate this matter so much. But
00:34:49the point they reached, the point the matter reached,
00:34:52how many names did they say, 124, there are 141 individuals,
00:34:56yes, 141 names. A significant portion
00:34:59of these are said to be AKP members. When considering their relatives
00:35:03and so on, they perceive this as
00:35:06a threat to the sections outside the first circle
00:35:10of the family close to Erdoğan in the palace, that is, if we were to count 10 names, 5 names
00:35:14are currently being talked about. But this
00:35:17is not just a threat from a new party or a journalist,
00:35:20they also see it as a threat from the struggle that started
00:35:24after Erdoğan in the palace. I do not see both Ömer Çelik's
00:35:27statements and Erdoğan's
00:35:30"we will respond to the attack
00:35:33against our cadres" as merely a statement
00:35:37directed at the opposition. I think he also sees an internal threat
00:35:41there and will set a barrier against
00:35:44it. But they will not do this right in front of our eyes.
00:35:47What will happen in front of our eyes is that
00:35:51they will take a tough stance against journalists and the new party
00:35:53or other opposition parties. Now, this matter has a handicap
00:35:57for the government: even if you intervene
00:35:59at a high level, it will be talked about,
00:36:03that is, your intervention will keep it being talked about.
00:36:06Every move you make regarding this issue ensures that
00:36:10you continue to talk about that event. That's why they are in a dilemma.
00:36:13That is, if they arrest a journalist, if they respond to the new party,
00:36:17or if they respond to the Good Party
00:36:20or another opposition, or try to deny it,
00:36:23there will always be a fund issue on the agenda. That's a dilemma for them,
00:36:27but I think the biggest dilemma
00:36:30they are still chasing is, who is giving this
00:36:34information, why are they giving it? Ultimately, they know
00:36:36who is doing it. It is stated that these names
00:36:40are on Erdoğan's desk. It's impossible for them not to know,
00:36:43because as we see, very close names are involved
00:36:47in this. It is very clear that there is a story
00:36:50where they recommended, "you should join, we made a lot of money." What worries them
00:36:54now is where is this leaking from, who is doing it, and why
00:36:58is it being done? They will try to get ahead of this issue too.
00:37:01We will talk about this in the coming weeks.
00:37:04Talking is good anyway. Actually, what we are experiencing
00:37:08is the regime itself. We saw this from it.
00:37:12That is, those who made the Rabia sign, those who talked about poverty,
00:37:15actually, the clear demonstration of how they became rich,
00:37:19the regime being exposed in all its nakedness,
00:37:22I think is a very useful thing.
00:37:26It is also a very useful thing for the AKP voter. If you go out and talk today,
00:37:30it has become a serious problem. Moreover, this does not
00:37:33only affect 400 thousand people in the fund, but
00:37:36a much wider segment of people from the stock market
00:37:39due to the situation of companies falling, and it's not a problem
00:37:43that can be closed, naturally. Perhaps threatening
00:37:46sentences will prevent it, the leaders
00:37:48of the AKP, Erdoğan, and those close
00:37:52to Erdoğan think. That's why they will play hardball,
00:37:55but I don't think this
00:37:58can be resolved after this point,
00:38:02that people will say, "Okay, let's give up on this."
00:38:05They will threaten, but the issue is no longer
00:38:09something that can be overcome by protecting a few names.
00:38:12I mean, I really have crazy questions in my head:
00:38:16why was this done, what happened, how much is the AKP involved
00:38:19in this? Even
00:38:22Bahçeli wrote in Evrensel that
00:38:26is this legislative matter even related to the fund,
00:38:29that is, is the weakening of the AKP,
00:38:33the strengthening of the MHP or another political
00:38:35force in the People's Alliance a part of this fund scandal,
00:38:39leakage and so on? There are too many questions,
00:38:43and the coming period will be days when we seek and discuss the answers to these questions.
00:38:46That is, it's not just a money matter, but the direction politics will take
00:38:50and how the regime will continue
00:38:53will also be used as a scandalous tool. That is, the names of that scandal
00:38:57and so on. Now, the matter will be discussed
00:39:01a bit through this. So, what would Ceren hanım
00:39:04say as a political communicator and strategist about all that we have discussed?
00:39:08Now, Yaşar Aydın asked, "Where is it leaking from, who is leaking it, why is it leaking?"
00:39:11What is the reason for this leak? From there, we came to the question,
00:39:15is there an internal struggle within the AKP? And based on all this,
00:39:19we brought Ömer Çelik's statements to the screens.
00:39:23Is the best defense offense? Will such a tactic be followed
00:39:26by the AKP in general?
00:39:29That's their tactic anyway. Either to project
00:39:31responsibility, or to isolate the leader
00:39:35from the problem and responsibility,
00:39:38or to attack and project all the blame
00:39:41onto every political element they can project
00:39:44it onto in different areas.
00:39:48This has been the AKP's strategy, or rather, the trump cards they used
00:39:52in political communication, but the whole
00:39:55point here is this: for a very long time,
00:39:59since the election, since the election lost in 2023,
00:40:02we have been talking about some cliques
00:40:06fighting within the People's Alliance,
00:40:09not just within the AKP government. That is, we need to include
00:40:13the MHP in this. We even discussed this in the Sinan Ateş
00:40:16matter. We said it was a fight
00:40:19between some cliques of the People's Alliance.
00:40:23On the other hand, there is also this situation that needs to be taken
00:40:27into account, especially for the opposition
00:40:31and the government in the upcoming election.
00:40:34While we constantly discuss how the AKP's candidate
00:40:37for the election will be Tayyip Erdoğan again,
00:40:41the cliques within the AKP are also preparing
00:40:44for the post-Erdoğan era. Therefore, it is certain
00:40:48that the struggle of these cliques
00:40:51has escalated, and even if it's not a clear
00:40:55preparation for the post-Erdoğan era,
00:40:59even if another candidate will not be put in Erdoğan's
00:41:02place immediately in the upcoming snap election,
00:41:05in both the possibility of winning and losing
00:41:09the elections, serious preparations are being made for the post-Erdoğan era.
00:41:12In fact, we are talking about such a preparation
00:41:16that former AKP officials, various names from the new opposition
00:41:19who were formerly AKP officials, are being warned
00:41:22for the purpose of a clean-up of the ground
00:41:25for the post-Erdoğan era. The fact that
00:41:40he became a politically questionable figure, this was also actually
00:41:43a political ground preparation
00:41:46for the post-Erdoğan era. And here,
00:41:50whether it's after Erdoğan or not, it's certain that there's a struggle
00:41:54of certain cliques. Why certain? Because
00:41:57we are talking about names
00:42:01that are directly from the AKP government.
00:42:04Fatma Betül Sayankaya is a very symbolic name, yes, but she is also a name
00:42:08at the heart of the AKP government.
00:42:13Not only her closeness, but also a name
00:42:16whose almost all family members are known to have entered the bureaucracy.
00:42:20Therefore, it's not just one name. On the other hand,
00:42:23the names that are likely to be mentioned
00:42:27in the fund scandal in this government,
00:42:30and that are mentioned today,
00:42:34are actually names that are very prone
00:42:38to clique wars for the AKP.
00:42:40On the other hand, what do we see?
00:42:43We see that some of the pro-government media are strangely
00:42:47pretending that this fund plunder does not exist,
00:42:51while others are directing
00:42:55the arrows at various names. Even if we only look
00:42:57at the pro-government media, here,
00:43:00whether it's directly proportional to the leakage or not,
00:43:03we see that the information after the leak
00:43:07is also being used to make it
00:43:18more useful and to extract it.
00:43:21In short, what I said earlier is
00:43:25that how you frame this issue
00:43:28is very vital and very important for the voter.
00:43:32Of course, names should come out in this issue.
00:43:35Of course, even if those names are only symbolic,
00:43:39they are very important for the citizen. It is very important that some
00:43:42things are exposed, it is very important for accountability,
00:43:46but on the other hand, if we stop seeing
00:43:49this framework as a system problem
00:43:52and direct the responsibility
00:43:55to names, then
00:43:57this issue can ensure
00:44:01that some names, especially the leaders of the People's Alliance,
00:44:04are seen as exempt from the flaws of this system they established,
00:44:08from its lack of oversight, and accountability.
00:44:12And it can ensure their isolation.
00:44:15The biggest risk here is that the system's
00:44:19error, the system's flaws
00:44:22are perceived as being devoid
00:44:25of the power of the issue. Because no matter what you talk about,
00:44:28today, whatever plunder we are talking about,
00:44:32what is important for the opposition is how much
00:44:35these plunders, these exposed scandals, will manifest
00:44:38in voting behavior. Ultimately, that is what is important
00:44:42for the opposition: will it turn into voting behavior or not?
00:44:46For it to turn into voting behavior, it is very important
00:44:49to establish this narrative correctly from now on.
00:44:53So, what does Bahadır Özgür say about this high level of struggle?
00:44:56On the other hand, the social media account of the questioner
00:45:00is being blocked. Journalists who ask questions are being detained,
00:45:03arrested, and put under house arrest.
00:45:07Yaşar Aydın also said earlier that a period
00:45:10where they will play harder is ahead. Therefore, how does Bahadır Özgür interpret
00:45:13these side by side? Well, Ömer Çelik has not answered
00:45:17the simplest and most innocent question in the world for a week.
00:45:20He was asked, "Do you know Osman Arıkan Nacar,
00:45:23one of the people who plundered the most from the fund?"
00:45:27That's all. stole,
00:45:31and it was worth it. One question was asked.
00:45:35This is very natural, this question is asked everywhere in the world.
00:45:38"Do you know him?"
00:45:41He could have said, "What's it to you?" He could have said, "He's my friend."
00:45:44He could have said, "What he did doesn't concern me, I used to know him, I have no relationship with him now."
00:45:48He could have answered this way. But he raised the stakes
00:45:51so much because he also knows that, he sees this:
00:45:55when there is a 25-year-old government, this government cannot say,
00:45:58"This system was established before us," or
00:46:01"we didn't appoint these bureaucrats," or "we don't have political
00:46:04responsibility, it's the responsibility of the audit institutions," because
00:46:08everyone is from themselves, everyone is in charge.
00:46:14For this reason, nothing can happen without information leaking in this regime,
00:46:18because we ask, they don't say. Look, when there is a government
00:46:22that doesn't even answer a simple question, that doesn't say, "I don't know," or "I know,"
00:46:25nobody can learn anything without leakage from here.
00:46:29That's why Ömer Çelik's reaction
00:46:31is not to this question. He says, "My relationship
00:46:35with this person, only my circle can know.
00:46:38Who knows Osman Nacar?" None of us
00:46:41would know. How did this leak?" Now, he understands
00:46:44something more dangerous, as Yaşar abi said,
00:46:48"What will happen if the opposition says it? They are already under protection, they are not being prosecuted."
00:46:53No AKP member is being prosecuted anyway. But because he thinks
00:46:56this information is leaking from within, he is also seized with political panic.
00:47:00For this reason, those words about "we will raise the stakes"
00:47:03or "unity and solidarity" or "we will go on the political defense"
00:47:06are not just something directed at the opposition,
00:47:09it also lowers his reflex. He says inside, "Look,
00:47:13if we don't do something, we will fall apart." That is, "we will suffer damage from this."
00:47:17That's why they are passing the law, that's why they are silencing journalists.
00:47:20There is nothing in the photo published by that journalist,
00:47:24no element of crime. Ömer Çelik could have easily
00:47:28denied this and filed a compensation lawsuit. He could have said, "No, I don't know him, why are you associating me?"
00:47:31But he doesn't answer. It would be naive
00:47:34to think that a government that does not answer the question,
00:47:37"Do you know him?", can solve this
00:47:41or even question it a little. All their reactions are because
00:47:44of that, I agree too, that
00:47:47instead of an external factor that forces them,
00:47:51it's about the conflict they experience within themselves,
00:47:54and whether other information will leak. Now the fear is that
00:47:58will other names also go through this?
00:48:01They are afraid of being thrown to the public if they do,
00:48:05so they are trying to block these channels using the power they have.
00:48:08So, do you also observe such a leakage concern, Mr. Uzun,
00:48:12regarding the upcoming period
00:48:14within the government? I think
00:48:18that politically, such leaks will happen,
00:48:21because... things are being done
00:48:25that not everyone
00:48:27can accept. I also see
00:48:30and sense that a certain
00:48:33struggle for power within the government is intensifying.
00:48:37And from time to time, it is reflected
00:48:41in the public. I would like to continue
00:48:44with an evaluation of Ömer Çelik's words.
00:48:48Let me come back to this
00:48:51and the intensifying power struggle.
00:48:55I would expect that in the country,
00:48:58this century's robbery,
00:49:00While Mr. Çelik has a strong
00:49:03fighting spirit, I would have expected him
00:49:07to respond by saying that they will eradicate
00:49:10this with a stronger fighting spirit
00:49:13against those who committed and caused this robbery. What a responsible
00:49:17politician should have done
00:49:20was this.
00:49:24talking about threatening, increasing
00:49:28pressure on municipalities that align with
00:49:31the political understanding of those
00:49:34who brought this to the agenda, and engaging
00:49:38in a strong fight. First,
00:49:41you should convince the public
00:49:45that you are not involved in this robbery
00:49:48of the century, that you did not
00:49:51condone it, and that despite
00:49:54taking necessary measures,
00:49:58these things happened. Work
00:50:01to achieve this and engage
00:50:05in a strong fight. But since
00:50:08you know you cannot do this,
00:50:12you are saying that you will work
00:50:15by entering a high-level
00:50:19struggle mode over the municipalities,
00:50:22hinting at hidden threats,
00:50:26because everyone now believes
00:50:30that this happened through political
00:50:34connections. Are you not
00:50:36already doing this? If
00:50:39there is something you are not
00:50:42doing as the government,
00:50:45it's another problem. Have you not
00:50:49been in a high-level
00:50:53struggle to seize municipalities
00:50:55by appointing trustees,
00:50:58by arresting officials,
00:51:02and even by making transfers in places
00:51:05where there are none?
00:51:09Are you threatening us, do you
00:51:12think we will give up on
00:51:16working to expose this robbery
00:51:19of the century and informing the public
00:51:23because we are being threatened?
00:51:26Whatever happened will
00:51:30come out. Whoever stole the
00:51:32people's money will be revealed. I
00:51:36have a word
00:51:38for Mr. Güler,
00:51:41the group leader. Did you say
00:51:44we should reveal the names
00:51:48of 455,578 people? If these
00:51:51455,578 people,
00:51:54like Fatma Betül Sayankaya,
00:51:57took 2 billion liras from the people's
00:52:01pockets, then reveal
00:52:05all of them. We expect you to
00:52:08disclose the list and names
00:52:12of those who, within this group
00:52:16of 455,578 people,
00:52:19took advantage of information
00:52:22obtained from within
00:52:25for their own benefit,
00:52:28harming these people. The rule
00:52:31you mentioned regarding
00:52:35their right to be presumed
00:52:38innocent is not a rule that
00:52:42prevents an investigation
00:52:46for those for whom there is reasonable
00:52:50suspicion of having committed
00:52:53a crime. Revealing these names
00:52:56does not mean that the presumption
00:53:00of innocence has been violated.
00:53:03You would announce that
00:53:07these cases have been
00:53:10referred to the prosecutor's
00:53:13office, and we would
00:53:16evaluate it based
00:53:20on the information from the
00:53:23prosecutor's office
00:53:26and judicial authorities.
00:53:29But you have no
00:53:32right to conceal
00:53:35and protect them. Especially,
00:53:38if these individuals
00:53:42have political identities
00:53:46or political affiliations,
00:53:50you are
00:53:52obliged to disclose
00:53:56them not only legally
00:54:00but also politically,
00:54:03because this nation did
00:54:06not give you the authority
00:54:10to be robbed
00:54:13through your cronies.
00:54:16It gave you the authority
00:54:19to govern this country
00:54:22within the framework of laws.
00:54:25Whoever violates
00:54:29these laws, even if
00:54:33it's you,
00:54:35you must disclose it
00:54:39and be accountable
00:54:42to the people. Let
00:54:46this be clearly known.
00:54:49A question came to mind
00:54:52while you were speaking,
00:54:56Mr. Uzun. Are there other
00:55:00people who have gained
00:55:03more than 2 billion
00:55:07liras or more? It seems
00:55:10so. Because
00:55:14there is a list regarding
00:55:17this, and it is
00:55:21stated that the person
00:55:24who allegedly gained the
00:55:27most money
00:55:31took the money
00:55:34abroad in a rowboat,
00:55:38in quotation marks. Those
00:55:41people know who they are.
00:55:44This country's money,
00:55:48even the money of people
00:55:52who invested small amounts
00:55:55to protect themselves
00:55:59from inflation and earn
00:56:02a little, is now
00:56:05abroad,
00:56:08and everyone should know
00:56:11that there is no
00:56:15possibility of it being
00:56:18brought back. Those who
00:56:22took it added it
00:56:25to the economies of other
00:56:29countries. It will never
00:56:33come back.
00:56:37My friend told me today
00:56:40that due to a planned
00:56:44surgery that cost
00:56:48a significant amount,
00:56:51he invested the money he had
00:56:55in a fund. Now he
00:56:58cannot get his
00:57:01money back from the
00:57:06fund, and he cannot
00:57:10have the surgery.
00:57:13There are such victims.
00:57:17We will discuss
00:57:20how those who invested
00:57:23money in the
00:57:26fund will get it back
00:57:30and how much they
00:57:34will get. Dear viewers,
00:57:37before we move on,
00:57:40let me say this
00:57:43to my teacher, Yalçın.
00:57:46Since we mentioned
00:57:49Ömer Çelik's statements,
00:57:52Yalçın Hoca says that
00:57:55Ömer Çelik states that
00:57:58such events happen all
00:58:01over the world, reminding
00:58:05us of the Madoff case.
00:58:09He says that similar
00:58:12frauds arising from
00:58:16legal loopholes
00:58:19can occur in many
00:58:22developed countries.
00:58:26However, he states
00:58:29that while liquidation
00:58:33processes in the world
00:58:36take 5 to 9
00:58:39years, President
00:58:43Erdoğan personally showed
00:58:46his will, and they
00:58:50immediately started
00:58:53payment processes
00:58:57in Turkey at a
00:59:00fast pace. What
00:59:03do you say at
00:59:06this point? On the one
00:59:10hand, the concern of the citizens
00:59:14is, of course,
00:59:17that this damage
00:59:20will be recovered
00:59:24from these
00:59:27individuals and paid
00:59:30to the victims.
00:59:34This is everyone's
00:59:37expectation. Will it
00:59:41be collected from the
00:59:44fraudsters rather
00:59:48than from the state's
00:59:50and nation's pockets?
00:59:54Or will public
00:59:58resources be used?
01:00:01This is the question on our
01:00:05minds. What do
01:00:08you say? Now,
01:00:11saying that such events
01:00:15happen all over the
01:00:18world is, I think,
01:00:22a statement intended
01:00:24to downplay the fund
01:00:28robbery we experienced
01:00:31in Turkey. Because
01:00:35when we look at
01:00:38the world, which for
01:00:41us means Western
01:00:45countries
01:00:47or America, yes, we
01:00:51see that there have
01:00:55been frauds in funds
01:00:58from time to time.
01:01:01But I don't remember
01:01:05any examples where the
01:01:08ruling party
01:01:11was directly involved,
01:01:15like in our case.
01:01:19When we look at
01:01:23the names that have
01:01:26been exposed so far,
01:01:29I don't recall
01:01:32any examples where people
01:01:36directly associated
01:01:40with the government
01:01:43and in power had significant
01:01:48shares and made
01:01:51a lot of money
01:01:55from this fraud.
01:01:58So, if Mr.
01:02:01Çelik could provide
01:02:04examples of other
01:02:08countries where those
01:02:11in power
01:02:12were involved
01:02:17in such frauds,
01:02:21then we could compare
01:02:25how our situation
01:02:28is different from others.
01:02:32Therefore, what we
01:02:36have here is
01:02:39not something
01:02:43similar to the
01:02:46examples companies.
01:02:50What do
01:02:53I base
01:02:57because disclosed
01:03:00leaked to
01:03:04public. we
01:03:06have them.
01:03:09it have
01:03:13covered That's
01:03:16they now
01:03:19to it
01:03:23While to
01:03:26İsmail said
01:03:30was he
01:03:34it. balloon
01:03:37After burst,
01:03:41New effort
01:03:44İsmail under
01:03:48arrest. what
01:03:51saying.
01:03:53the
01:03:55investigation this:
01:03:59fund were
01:04:02They arrested
01:04:06to transactions
01:04:09the market.
01:04:13journalists arrested
01:04:16they on
01:04:20According the
01:04:24there no
01:04:27culprits. it.
01:04:31that's we...
01:04:34we don't buy
01:04:37it, what
01:04:40would be the benefit
01:04:44if we
01:04:46do?" No
01:04:50discussion was
01:04:53held. It was
01:04:57immediately intervened.
01:05:00It was stated
01:05:04that it would be
01:05:07acquired. Now,
01:05:10a formal
01:05:14application has been
01:05:18made to the
01:05:22competition board.
01:05:25What will the
01:05:29competition board
01:05:33say? Of course,
01:05:36it will say
01:05:40"buy it."
01:05:44So we
01:05:47anticipate what
01:05:51decision will
01:05:54come out.
01:05:56Therefore, we
01:06:00openly returning
01:06:04money that came
01:06:07as a result of an
01:06:11action. Was she
01:06:15a minister or a
01:06:19former minister?
01:06:22Was she in the
01:06:25party?
01:06:30connection was
01:06:33lost or
01:06:37if Mr.
01:06:39Karatepe had
01:06:43finished his
01:06:46remarks. So
01:06:50I'm this.
01:06:54But more
01:06:58importantly, because
01:07:01a proper
01:07:04investigation was
01:07:08not carried
01:07:11out, because
01:07:15state financial
01:07:18experts and
01:07:21inspectors were
01:07:25not mobilized,
01:07:28etc., those
01:07:32who know
01:07:35these matters,
01:07:39if they
01:07:42had examined
01:07:45the stock
01:07:49market, they
01:07:52would have
01:07:56seen from
01:07:59whom the
01:08:02investment banks
01:08:06associated with
01:08:10these funds
01:08:13borrowed money.
01:08:16Let's pause
01:08:19here with
01:08:23this question.
01:08:27Bahadır Özgür
01:08:31will continue
01:08:34after the
01:08:38break. Professor
01:08:42Dr.
01:08:46Yalçın Karatepe,
01:08:49thank you,
01:08:53Mr. Karatepe,
01:08:57for your
01:09:42contribution. Have
01:09:46a good
01:09:50night. Thank
01:09:52you. Let's
01:09:56take a
01:09:59quick break,
01:10:03and then
01:10:07Bahadır Özgür
01:10:10will
01:10:13explain. Yes,
01:10:16"Söz Sende"
01:10:20continues on
01:10:24Halk TV
01:10:26with the
01:10:29remote connection
01:10:32to Yeni
01:10:36Party Muğla
01:10:39Deputy Cumhur
01:10:42Uzun and
01:10:46our esteemed
01:10:50guests in the
01:10:53studio. Now,
01:10:56since we
01:10:59are going
01:11:02to a
01:11:06break, Bahadır
01:11:10Özgür couldn't
01:11:13finish his
01:11:16statement. Let
01:11:19him finish.
01:11:22Let's continue.
01:11:26So, this
01:11:30is not
01:11:34just about
01:11:37funds. There
01:11:41is
01:11:43stock speculation
01:11:47here. These
01:11:51extend back
01:11:55several years.
01:11:58There are
01:12:02obviously signed
01:12:06documents in
01:12:09public offerings.
01:12:13They are
01:12:16also part
01:12:20of the
01:12:24manipulation. Therefore,
01:12:27the number
01:12:31of people
01:12:34affected is
01:12:38very large. It's
01:12:55not limited
01:12:59to "we
01:13:02will pay
01:13:06for the
01:13:09funds." The
01:13:13real social
01:13:17cost is
01:13:20Ceren law, so
01:13:23let's not get into this. "Who
01:13:27is the name, who will be judged, who will not there is no such thing, look, it's being
01:13:31continued with something built on lies, so
01:13:34the AKP politicians are shouting, calling out, saying it's a stain, they say
01:13:37let's delay the parliament, in a way, they are
01:13:41honestly shrouding it in a veil of
01:13:44mist, as if there was something, as if there was
01:13:48an investigation, as if the prosecutor was taking these statements,
01:13:51they are portraying something like that,
01:14:03so there is no, no, okay. They narrowed down the crime to only the owners
01:14:06of the fund, meaning these 20 billion dollars? So, only the managers of the fund, those companies, yes,
01:14:10only the team that organized this, that facilitated
01:14:13this work, is currently inside. As Bahadir also stated,
01:14:17between 3 and 5 years, we will see these friends
01:14:20on the street in two months, in cafes and so on,
01:14:23probably even if they don't get their money back. We won't see them as poor,
01:14:26we'll see them as people who are well-off,
01:14:29their reputations will be restored, there's
01:14:33really nothing like that. If this law was not
01:14:37coming to parliament, maybe we would say, "They can't
01:14:40close this matter like this, it must turn into
01:14:44an investigation," but they will bring a law to parliament
01:14:48now, that law is coming specifically to prevent
01:14:52its investigation, not to deepen it. No
01:14:55parliamentary commission is being set up, it's not being
01:14:59said, "Let's discuss this in parliament, let the
01:15:02names come out." A law will come
01:15:05to parliament next week to officially close it.
01:15:08We are in an environment where we were robbed,
01:15:12and the thief was caught, but we cannot reach
01:15:16the thief's identity. Friends, they did
01:15:19not only rob the fund or the number
01:15:22of people, they robbed all citizens, the
01:15:25public. We were talking about this earlier; one
01:15:29third of the tradesmen in Kadıköy put money
01:15:32into this fund, and now they are thinking,
01:15:35"How will we pay this employee? How
01:15:39will we buy materials?" This similar story exists
01:15:42all over Turkey. I apologize, let me correct
01:15:46myself, they are angry because they didn't invest
01:15:49in the fund, they saw it as a safe
01:15:53place in the stock market. So, they say,
01:15:57"We didn't get involved in the fund." We're
01:16:00suffering from this, all the stocks in the
01:16:04stock market hit rock bottom. It will probably
01:16:07take months for it to go up again
01:16:10to the same level, even if it reaches
01:16:13the same level, there's nothing they will
01:16:16gain. They lost that place and so
01:16:19on. There's really a widespread victim of
01:16:23theft, but there's no
01:16:34thief. Now, there's no thief. 214 fund
01:16:37managers earned 187 billion Turkish Liras. But
01:16:40as our guests, Bahadır Özgür, also stated,
01:16:44will its effects increase in waves
01:16:47in the coming period? Will we see the
01:16:50aftershocks? Of course, we will see that
01:16:54in time. Now, Özgür Özel, the new general
01:16:57chairman, let his statements come. I
01:17:00ask my friends to bring up visual number 12.
01:17:04Regarding the number he gave, he emphasized that these
01:17:07214 people have the right to not be revealed,
01:17:10saying, "Will they be announced or not?" Now,
01:17:13Özgür Özel is also asking today, "Does
01:17:16the right to not be revealed belong only
01:17:20to the AKP?" Let's see what Özgür
01:17:23Özel says, my friends
01:17:26brought it to the screens. "Hiding the names
01:17:29of these people who pave the way for lies
01:17:32and slander, and making them instrumental
01:17:36in power struggles within the AKP, a lot
01:17:39of lists are circulating.
01:17:41Politicians are trying to confirm these names.
01:17:45We didn't announce the names without confirmation.
01:17:49There was only one person with the same
01:17:52name as Minister Mahinur Göktaş's father. We
01:17:56apologize for that. But does the right to
01:17:59not be stained belong
01:18:02only to AKP politicians? The cure for the
01:18:06right to not be stained is transparency."
01:18:09All photos from the mobile phone of a person
01:18:13not involved in the investigation are being
01:18:16served. While the situation is like this
01:18:20when you are in opposition, when it's
01:18:24the AKP, they say our friends shouldn't
01:18:27be stained, said Özgür Özel.
01:18:30Cumhuriyet Newspaper also had important statements from
01:18:34him. Now, let's ask Mr. Uzun.
01:18:37Does the right to not be stained belong
01:18:41only to the AKP, only to AKP politicians?
01:18:43Özgür Özel asks this question. What
01:18:47do you say to this question, Mr. Uzun?
01:18:51If you have a country that applies different
01:18:55laws to friends and enemies,
01:18:58yes, we are such a country, you experience
01:19:02exactly these things. However, the constitutional
01:19:06right to not be stained is a
01:19:09right that exists for all citizens. When
01:19:12you expose your opponents through the media that
01:19:16has become your own broadcasting organ,
01:19:18without thinking while acting, and
01:19:21then remember the right to not
01:19:24be stained when it comes to you, you
01:19:28lose all credibility. If the right to
01:19:32not be stained is a right for your
01:19:35friends, and if this really protects
01:19:38the security of a citizen as
01:19:41a right, you must apply it for
01:19:44all citizens. However, you don't behave
01:19:47like this at all. You can't perceive
01:19:51it as "the judiciary doesn't behave like
01:19:55this at all," because the units
01:19:58affiliated with you,
01:20:02gibi kendi işinize geldiği zaman
01:20:04hatırlayan, ama bunun gerçek... anlam ve
01:20:08değerini idrak edememiş yöneticilersiniz, eğer öyle
01:20:12olmasaydı, bu hak konusundaki hassasiyetinizi
01:20:15herkes için gösterir, bundan sonrası için de teminat
01:20:19oluştururdunuz. Burada ben Sayın
01:20:22Özgür'ün ifade ettiği bu işin boyutunun Türkiye ekonomisi
01:20:26açısından ne kadar geniş olduğu konusuna bir kez
01:20:29daha dönmek isterim, çünkü
01:20:32borsaların temeli güven esasına göre
01:20:35çalışır ve eğer. eğer siz bir ülkenin
01:20:39borsasına ya o ülkeyeye
01:20:41güvenmiyorsanız, orada sizin güveninizi kıracak
01:20:45herhangi bir şey yaşandıysa bu
01:20:48dalga dalga bütün ekonomik
01:20:51yapıya yayılır ve bu yayılmanın sonucu
01:20:55olarak da siz orada varlığını
01:20:58düşündüğünüz kaydi değerleri hepsini
01:21:01yitirirsiniz, sizin borsanızın bir
01:21:04değeri vardır, değer güvenle bir birlikte
01:21:08hızla azalır, alanı olmaz, gerçek
01:21:11değerinin altında değerlere iner
01:21:15ve siz yine de alıcı bulamazsınız, bu nedenle sadece
01:21:19fonla sınırlı olmayan İstanbul
01:21:22Menkul Kıymetler borsasında işlem gören
01:21:25bütün hisse senetlerini etkilemiş hale
01:21:29gelen bu vurgunun yüzyılın
01:21:32soygunnun ülkeyeye zararının
01:21:34hesaplanması öyle sanıldığı kadar... Basit
01:21:37değil, bütün hisselerdeki değer kayıplarıyla
01:21:41birlikte ortaya konularak çıkarılmak durumunda.
01:21:45Hatta biraz önceki örnekte Sayın Aydın dedi ki,
01:21:48eee, buradaki borsaya
01:21:51parasını, esnaf yatırmış, oradan bir kısım gelir
01:21:55elde etmek ya da enflasyona ezilmemek üzere
01:21:58bekletirken, bugün taban yapmış olan
01:22:01hisseler nedeniyle ödemesi geldiği
01:22:05için o fiyattan satmak zorunda. alacak esnaf,
01:22:08dolayısıyla onun da kendi açısından duyduğu
01:22:11zararların tek tek tek tek toplanması lazım,
01:22:15bu milyonlarca insanı ilgilendiren bir
01:22:18hale dönüşmüş durumda. Öte
01:22:21yandan, bu işlemlerin
01:22:23aslında bu soruşturmaların, hani açılmamış olan
01:22:27soruşturmaların açılması halinde
01:22:31ispatlanması kadar kolay bir
01:22:34durumla karşı karşıyayız. Bu
01:22:38adli süreç açısından söylüyorum, çünkü bu
01:22:41işlemlerin tamamı kayıtlı işlemler,
01:22:44kayıtlı işlemler de siz suçu
01:22:47ortaya çıkarmak için elinizde bütün deliller
01:22:51var demektir, yeter ki siz onu soruşturmak
01:22:54isteyin, çünkü açıktan yapılan işlemler değil,
01:22:58biri birisine gitmiş, bir çuval parayı teslim etmiş, yani eee
01:23:02açıktan yapılan kayıt dışı yapılan işlemler
01:23:05değil, hepsi kayıt altında siz... Bunu bulmak
01:23:08istiyorsanız, bunu gerçekten soruşturmak
01:23:11istiyorsanız, parayı takip etmeniz yetiyor,
01:23:14para ne olmuş, ne büyümüş, nereye
01:23:18the units of the
01:23:22Ministry of Interior, are already struggling
01:23:25to clear their names for days, months,
01:23:27years, even when their right to
01:23:31defense is restricted, after being declared
01:23:35guilty at the beginning of the
01:23:38investigation. Look, in the processes that have occurred
01:23:42over the years, people who have been
01:23:45in custody for years are acquitted.
01:23:48They faced very
01:23:50likely accusations, how will you compensate
01:23:54for the cases where they were exposed
01:23:56by violating the right to be
01:23:59untarnished, which was etched into memories
01:24:03with the first images served when
01:24:07they were acquitted of these? You
01:24:10won't be able to compensate at all.
01:24:13Excuse me, you are managers who
01:24:16remember the right to be untarnished
01:24:20only when it suits you, just
01:24:23like in democracy, but you have
01:24:26not grasped its true meaning and
01:24:29value. If that were not the
01:24:33case, you would show your sensitivity regarding this right
01:24:37for everyone and create a guarantee
01:24:40for the future. Here, I would
01:24:43like to return once again to
01:24:45the issue of how broad the
01:24:49dimension of this matter is for the Turkish economy,
01:24:53as Mr. Özgür stated, because
01:24:55the foundation of stock markets operates
01:24:59on the basis of trust. And
01:25:03if you don't trust a country's
01:25:06stock market or that country, and
01:25:10if something happens there that shatters
01:25:13your trust, this spreads like wildfire
01:25:17throughout the entire economic structure, and
01:25:21as a result of this spread,
01:25:24you lose all the book values
01:25:28that you thought existed there. Your
01:25:31stock market has a value, and
01:25:34that value rapidly decreases with trust,
01:25:38there are no buyers, it falls below
01:25:41its real value, and you still
01:25:45can't find buyers. Therefore, calculating
01:25:48the damage to
01:25:50the country from this fraud, which
01:25:54is not limited to the fund but affects all
01:25:58stocks traded on the Istanbul Stock
01:26:01Exchange, is not as simple as
01:26:05it seems. It must be presented
01:26:08along with the value losses in
01:26:10all stocks. Even in the previous
01:26:14example, Mr. Aydın said that
01:26:17the tradesman invested his money in
01:26:21the stock market to earn some
01:26:24income or to avoid being crushed
01:26:27by inflation, but today he is
01:26:31forced to sell at that price
01:26:35because his payment is due, due
01:26:38to the stocks that have bottomed
01:26:42out. So, the tradesman who will
01:26:45buy it also needs to have
01:26:49his damages calculated one by one.
01:26:53This has turned into a situation
01:26:56that concerns millions of people. On
01:26:59the other hand, we are facing
01:27:02a situation that is as easy
01:27:05to prove as these transactions,
01:27:09actually these investigations that have not
01:27:12been opened, if they were opened.
01:27:16I'm saying this from a judicial
01:27:19process perspective, because all of these
01:27:22transactions are recorded transactions. And
01:27:26in recorded transactions, you have all
01:27:30the evidence in your hand to
01:27:33uncover the crime, as long as
01:27:36you want to investigate it, because
01:27:39these are not transactions made
01:27:43openly, where someone went and handed
01:27:46over a sack of money to
01:27:50someone else, meaning these are not
01:27:53unregistered transactions made openly, all
01:27:56of them are recorded. If you
01:27:59want to find this, if you
01:28:03really want to investigate this,
01:28:05it's enough to follow the money.
01:28:08What happened to the money, how
01:28:12much did it grow, where did
01:28:16it go, and then finally,
01:28:19where did it park? You have
01:28:22a system to track this. When
01:28:25you track this, you can immediately
01:28:29reveal who benefited, who is related
01:28:32to whom, and
01:28:36karinesi konusundaki eee açıklamaları önemliydi. Ne
01:28:40demişti, Abdullah Güler, ya biz Ak parti olarak masumiyet
01:28:44karinesine son derece dikkat ediyoruz demişti, bu
01:28:47kişilerin isimrinin açıklanma çağrısına. Öyle
01:28:50olunca, eee gün boyu sosyal medya üzerinden yurttaşın
01:28:54sorduğu bazı sorular da vardı. 15 numaralı görseli
01:28:57arkadaşlarım ekranlara getirirse onu da eee paylaşalım, mesela
01:29:00eee en çok. sorduğumuz sorulardan biri aklımıza
01:29:04gelen sorulardan biri şu eee bu görüntüler daha çok
01:29:08yeni geçtiğimiz eee hafta eee kayıtlara
01:29:11geçti Mersin Mersin'de gerçekleşen
01:29:14operasyonlarda eee sabaha karşı kapısı
01:29:18çalınan bir belediye başkanının eşi sabaha
01:29:21karşı uykusundan uyanıp pijamayla kapıyı açtığında örneğin
01:29:25eee onun kimi kanallarda izlediğimiz
01:29:28görüntüleri e hal böyle olunca eee acaba
01:29:31onların lekelenme? hakkı yok muydu sorusunu
01:29:34gündeme getirdi. Komedyen Deniz Göktaş
01:29:37yaptığı stand-up gösterisiyle milyonnarca kişiye
01:29:41ulaşan Deniz Göktaş. Onun
01:29:44gözaltına alındıktan sonra yine pek
01:29:47çok televizyon kanalında izlediğimiz bu görüntüleri ki
01:29:51daha önce bu görüntülerin defalarca çekildiğini söylemişti
01:29:54hatırlayacaksınız. Onun lekelenme hakkı yok muydu?
01:29:57Sorusunu gündeme getirdi. Türkiye'nin hafızasından silinmeyecek
01:30:01fotoğraflardan. "IBB'ye yönelik bu
01:30:04operasyonlarda dizilen belediye başkanları,
01:30:08bürokratlar, peki ya onların lekelenme
01:30:10hakkı yok muydu diye soruldu. Ne
01:30:14dersiniz bu sorulara Yaşar Aydın? Saban
01:30:17köründe sanatçıları gözaltına alıp uyuşturucu testine
01:30:20götürüyorlar, bir hafta sonra sanatçılar testim
01:30:24negatif diye açıklamak zorunda kalıyor, yani bırakın şu
01:30:27görüntüleri, yani onu bile yapıyorlar, sabahın
01:30:31köründe o yüzden ani AKP. in bir AKP'linin bu meseleye
01:30:34böyle yaklaşması gerçekten ciddiye alınacak üzerine konuşacak bir durum
01:30:38değil, ayrıca anlattıkları şey lekelenmemeyle de
01:30:41ilgili bir şey değil, yani bu örnekler doğru
01:30:45örnekler ama bu fonla ilgili itirazları doğru bir itiraz
01:30:48değil, çünkü iş belli, yasal olarak belli, biz gazeteciyiz, haber
01:30:52yapıyoruz, yaptığımız haberle ilgili soruşturma
01:30:55açılabilir, dava açılabilir, bu biz
01:30:58lekelendiğimiz anlamına gelmiyor, biz gider
01:31:01savcılıkta bunun... savunmasını veririz, her şey yanlışsa da
01:31:05cezamızı yatarız, yani biz niye savcılığa gittik, niye adımız
01:31:08böyle, yeter ki ifadeye çağırsınlar, sabahın köründe
01:31:11kapamıza dayanmasınlar, biz gideriz zaten bir meslek erbabı olarak
01:31:15gider konuşuruz, burada da insanların
01:31:18greater pressure. And actually,
01:31:22this discourse, which talks
01:31:26about the current situation and
01:31:29which we find extremely comical,
01:32:02indicates that the competitive
01:32:06authoritarian system has become
01:32:08even more rigid, that
01:32:12the right of journalists to
01:32:16provide information needs to
01:32:20be restricted, or that there
01:32:23are journalists who impose
01:32:26self-censorship on themselves
01:32:30on one side, and on the
01:32:34other side, we are talking
01:32:38about a system, a
01:32:42ground, that is not explicitly
01:32:46named, which aims to
01:32:49usurp the citizen's right
01:32:52to information. Therefore, nothing
01:32:55we talk about is individually
01:32:59about a law, legally,
01:33:02about a statute, about a law
01:33:06article, individually
01:33:09being stretched, or about certain
01:33:12initiatives being taken personally.
01:33:15Actually, all of these are
01:33:19systemic problems, and all of
01:33:21them lead to a very fundamental
01:33:24problem related to the shaking
01:33:28of the ground that is the reason for
01:33:32the existence of the justice
01:33:35system in Turkey. Okay,
01:33:38now there was a post
01:33:42by Şamil Tayyar just
01:33:45now. My friends should bring
01:33:49that to the screens as
01:33:52well. "Here are the fund
01:33:56manipulators, their right to be
01:33:59unstained, in quotation marks,"
01:34:02was one of today's most
01:34:05discussed topics. Now, what's
01:34:08happening in the investigation? What
01:34:11else? Let's read this
01:34:15post, and I'll go to
01:34:18Bahadır Özgür with this
01:34:22question. So, Şamil Tayyar
01:34:25says, "The Istanbul Chief
01:34:29Public Prosecutor's Office has
01:34:33frozen the accounts of
01:34:37141 individuals and 73
01:34:41firms with a total of
01:34:44187.653 billion Liras
01:34:48in 3 funds. This
01:34:51list was created from
01:34:54those who gained
01:34:58over 100 million Liras
01:35:01in unjust enrichment. This
01:35:05is an extremely appropriate and
01:35:08timely decision." he says.
01:35:11However, it's incomplete.
01:35:15Why should an individual
01:35:19or firm that made
01:35:22a profit of 99, 98,
01:35:25or 97 million Liras
01:35:29be exempt? He asks
01:35:32a fair question here,
01:35:36especially since it's a crime.
01:35:39example, Fatih Ergün's reason for arrest
01:35:42is being called a "court doctor"
01:35:45instead of a "prison
01:35:52doctor." In this situation, Fatih
01:35:55Ergün is facing an unbelievable
01:35:58accusation like imprisonment. Tuğba
01:36:01Tekerek, that is, for a
01:36:05crime she didn't commit, just because
01:36:09her name was mentioned, today she is forced to
01:36:12sleep on a mattress right
01:36:15next to the toilet. İsmail
01:36:18Saymaz and Murat Ağırel are
01:36:21under house arrest. Now, let alone
01:36:25the right to not be stained, you are leaving
01:36:29citizens facing a system that
01:36:32even takes away people's individual
01:36:35rights and freedoms, their right to
01:36:39practice their profession. So, it's not
01:36:42even the right to not be
01:36:52stained, I mean, today, even talking
01:36:56about the right to not be
01:37:00stained is a great luxury,
01:37:04at least for the opposition,
01:37:07because on one hand, there is
01:37:11the right to not be stained,
01:37:16a very great human right,
01:37:19but on the other hand, there
01:37:22are situations where fundamental rights
01:37:24and freedoms are almost
01:37:28crushed by a crane, as
01:37:31I said a moment ago.
01:37:34Now, how many forgotten names
01:37:37are there within this? I mean,
01:37:41we even forget the names we
01:37:45have to remind every day, in this intense
01:37:49agenda. Therefore, it's truly laughable
01:37:52for any AK Party official to
01:37:55talk about the If we are talking about income, there is no
01:37:59less or more, it is not right to set a limit. I think this limit should be
01:38:03removed. He also said that it is important that the collection process be completed
01:38:06in a short time so that the blocking decision does not cause grievances.
01:38:10How will it be done? Of course, this stage is important, how is that collection?
01:38:13While those who gained unfair profit from the fund are held accountable, the bell should also ring
01:38:17for public officials who turned a blind eye to this mistake without delay. Shamil
01:38:21Tayyar says that the accounts of
01:38:24141 individuals and 73 companies have been blocked
01:38:28and that this list consists of those who obtained
01:38:31more than 100 million liras of unfair profit.
01:38:35I don't know, we should ask Şamil Tayyar
01:38:38on what basis he did it, you know, he is a very honest
01:38:42journalist. He does it. Now forget this,
01:38:45the prosecutor's office announced this today,
01:38:48it became news today, yes, there is a list, 141 of these are
01:38:52citizens, that is, individuals, 73 companies,
01:38:55that's it. The investors who were asked
01:38:58to return the money to the TMSF fund
01:39:01were these. Their assets were naturally frozen,
01:39:05and as they paid, they were unfrozen.
01:39:08However, today, another list of 85 people
01:39:12came from the prosecutor's office, and an order was issued
01:39:15to completely stop their stock market transactions,
01:39:18that is, any financial transactions, and to inform the prosecutor's office
01:39:20if there is any attempt to dispose of assets.
01:39:24There is also a list there. Now, of course,
01:39:27there are interesting names on that list, but there is nothing surprising.
01:39:31These are more or less the names that have been officially mentioned
01:39:35in the investigation, which has been revealed to the public
01:39:38since the beginning of this investigation, who were detained, arrested,
01:39:42or whose statements were taken, or who were banned from traveling abroad.
01:39:45So, there are no names that we questioned or discussed there.
01:39:49We want those 141 people.
01:39:52Who are the highest earners? Who are those who brought the money
01:39:56and deposited it to the TMSF? Did they come out of this investigation?
01:40:00Who are they? Apart from this, one of the most accurate
01:40:04things Shamil Tayyan said is this:
01:40:06are we going to set a threshold and count the earnings above it,
01:40:10and not count those below it? How will we calculate it?
01:40:14That's the problem, you see. A viewer just sent a message.
01:40:18He said, "Let's say I earned 1 million liras,
01:40:21I invested 500,000 or 800,000. Will the state take this now?
01:40:25Will it count it as profit?" So, this is open-ended.
01:40:28How can you judge based on what? That's why if you don't open
01:40:32an investigation, and in the investigation
01:40:36you don't say that these people knew about this fund
01:40:39and made money, and collaborated with these people,
01:40:42if you don't open such an investigation, then everyone who makes money
01:40:45in the stock market will think that their money will be taken back.
01:40:48I would think the same thing if I were them, because I look at the law,
01:40:52it says "look at your conscience." "If it's too much, bring it,"
01:40:55it says, "can there be such a law?"
01:40:57For this reason, none of these explanations
01:41:01have any validity. The Minister of Justice,
01:41:04the prosecutor, or the ministers and officials in charge
01:41:07of this matter will come out and hold a press conference
01:41:11before the public, and say, "The scope of our investigation
01:41:14is this, we have launched an investigation within this framework,
01:41:18we have arrested this many people, detained them, taken statements,
01:41:21and this many people will be tried without arrest."
01:41:23They will explain the content of this law.
01:41:27They will say, "We considered those above this amount
01:41:29or those involved in these incidents as guilty.
01:41:32These fall within the scope of this law." Have you ever heard?
01:41:36The biggest corruption in Turkey has exploded,
01:41:39and there is no statement from any official institution
01:41:43or official person. Only the Minister of Justice appears
01:41:47on some televisions and says something. I mean, nothing,
01:41:50they don't inform anything. A name leaks from there.
01:41:54Someone says, "He took 15 billion, did he deposit this 15 billion?"
01:41:58People made news out of this. You leaked it.
01:42:01Then we learn that no such money was deposited, that there is no such money.
01:42:04He says he deposited 81 billion million liras. Look, the former bureaucrat
01:42:08who was said to be linked to Ömer Çelik and who allegedly earned
01:42:1120 billion liras, even ran away.
01:42:14Let's be clear about the source of this: it is from within the government
01:42:18and the Ministry of Justice. These are the sources.
01:42:22There is no official statement from these circles.
01:42:26This has been going on for a week. Then we learn that he only
01:42:29deposited 81 million liras, and he is not a fugitive,
01:42:33he is not under investigation. So, why are these journalists arrested?
01:42:37Of course, if it's not something that exists, it's not there for you.
01:42:40This is a crime for journalists. Of course, it starts from a publicly available photo.
01:42:43So, I said this because people are waiting, hundreds of thousands
01:42:46of people are waiting, hundreds of thousands of people
01:42:50are trying to get their money, they are waiting for their principal.
01:42:53No one, not even a small investor, or a small merchant,
01:42:57expects an exorbitant profit from there. They say, "Give me my principal
01:43:00plus inflation," because "I fell into a trap,
01:43:03because you say so." I mean, this is not a stock market crisis,
01:43:07the stock market has not crashed. You are telling me,
01:43:10that is, to the government, that there was a trap here.
01:43:13Then give me an explanation. I didn't understand anything
01:43:16from any of these explanations. Therefore, what we really need to demand
01:43:20is one thing: those conducting the investigation
01:43:23will come out and explain everything at a press conference.
01:43:27Two, without a parliamentary investigation, it is not possible for such an incident
01:43:31to be investigated in Turkey and for society's conscience
01:43:34to be at peace. Without a parliamentary investigation,
01:43:38if these two paths are not taken, then sorry,
01:43:41those pieces of information mean nothing. Yes, they mean nothing.
01:43:45Okay, let me take it very briefly. Actually, this
01:43:48atmosphere of uncertainty has weakened the political
01:43:52reflexes of the AKP, and when they don't explain
01:43:56this pattern, they have left it to the citizens
01:43:59to imagine how far it can go.
01:44:02This means that there is a much bigger pattern
01:44:05than we imagined. Yes, we talked about this today. Of course, what Özgür Özel said about this
01:44:22is that there are many people, and it could create a huge crisis. They don't even go as far as exposing and blaming one guilty person to close the matter. This means that there is a much bigger pattern than we have imagined. Yes, we talked about this today. Of course, what Özgür Özel said about this is that they opened a repentance
01:44:25account, leave your sins here. It turned into a repentance
01:44:29fund. So, it became a fund of exploitation, a repentance
01:44:33fund. Okay, now, I am in a hurry.
01:44:36That's why I asked Ms. Ceren to speak briefly.
01:44:40Mr. Cumhur will leave at the end of this hour. There is also a topic I want to get his opinion
01:44:43on as a lawyer, it is very, very important. Look, the root
01:44:47of all these discussions comes down to law
01:44:50and justice. I will ask my colleagues
01:44:53to bring a sound to the screens.
01:44:57This was one of the most talked about statements of the day.
01:45:00Who is making the statement? The President of Ankara Bar Association No. 2,
01:45:03Gökhan Ağdemir. He says that
01:45:0770 lawyers who are members of the bar referred to judges
01:45:10and prosecutors. He explains this live.
01:45:14Shall we bring it to the screens? We refer our friends who want to be prosecutors.
01:45:17In our two-year working period,
01:45:21we made 70 lawyer friends who are members
01:45:25of the bar judges and prosecutors. We were references,
01:45:28we met with the ministries, and thankfully,
01:45:31the ministry granted us a privilege
01:45:35in that sense. We supported our young colleagues.
01:45:38We helped them grow in the field
01:45:42they wanted. Is this an admission
01:45:45for our friends who want to be judges and prosecutors? I will ask
01:45:48Mr. Cumhur, but as responsible broadcasters, let's also
01:45:52convey this: it was talked about so much
01:45:55that he made another statement after the reactions on social media.
01:45:59He says that a certain part of his speech was cut and served.
01:46:03An untrue perception was created in this way.
01:46:07In other words, he means it was taken out of context.
01:46:22Not only as a lawyer, but also as someone who served
01:46:25as the president of the Muğla Bar Association for 8 years,
01:46:28I say that I was astonished.
01:46:31Because the government,
01:46:34during my time as president of the bar association,
01:46:37clearly showed the illegality of the actions taken
01:46:40by the existing bar associations with their legal knowledge,
01:46:44and the unconstitutionality of these actions.
01:46:47And on this matter, at that time, we were 79
01:46:50bar associations, some of our provinces did not
01:46:54have bar associations, with the statements made simultaneously
01:46:57by 79 bar associations, the government had a structure
01:47:01that created a public outcry and exposed
01:47:04its unlawful practices. Seeing this structure,
01:47:07the government invented second bar associations
01:47:11for the first time in Turkey since the establishment of the Republic,
01:47:14in order to break the stance of the existing bar associations.
01:47:18And it said that second bar associations could be established
01:47:20by 2500 lawyers coming together.
01:47:23"Only and only to create bar associations
01:47:26that are allied with them, and to counter the government's
01:47:29unlawful actions that the bar associations
01:47:33put forward as a legal institution, they tried to create a situation
01:47:37where they could gain legal legitimacy
01:47:41by saying that these are lawful and are the will
01:47:44of the legislature. Therefore, wherever you see
01:47:46more than one bar association, and we call them numbered bar associations,
01:47:50wherever you see a two-numbered bar association, it means we are talking about two
01:47:54bar associations that were established by the government itself,
01:47:57by the government's own direction, by directing public lawyers
01:48:01and so on, and that could only be established
01:48:04in Istanbul and Ankara. Therefore, the government established
01:48:07these itself, and their threads are now hanging
01:48:10by a thread. The number of members
01:48:13has not been able to exceed 2500,
01:48:16so it has not been accepted. There should have been at least
01:48:1920-25 in Istanbul, 10-15 in Ankara,
01:48:22and in Izmir and various other provinces,
01:48:26despite the numbers being quite possible, a bar association that has not been able to multiply,
01:48:29a bar association that is allied with the government, a manufactured bar association,
01:48:33has established a reference system by making it easier for that bar association
01:48:36in judge and prosecutor recruitments in order to maintain its existence.
01:48:40This is being revealed. I am not surprised by this,
01:48:43because I am one of the bar association presidents who walked
01:48:47from Muğla to Ankara, saying that this cannot
01:48:50and should not happen in Turkey. So, it is not a big surprise
01:48:53for me. But the system
01:48:57is organizing all its institutions
01:49:01to be allied with it. It is acting by establishing new ones for those
01:49:04that it cannot organize. We called these
01:49:07"parallel bar associations" at that time,
01:49:10because these were bar associations that were created
01:49:14by the government to give legal legitimacy
01:49:17to what it was doing, against the existing bar associations,
01:49:21which are also unique
01:49:23in the world. These bar associations
01:49:27needed to be strengthened from the government's perspective,
01:49:30with the philosophy I mentioned, because if these are strengthened,
01:49:34look... they will gain the power to say that Bar Association No. 2
01:49:38is saying something different or that what we did is legally correct. Therefore,
01:49:41two things are being used. First, our lawyer friends
01:49:45who are members here are provided with job opportunities
01:49:48through public resources so that they can earn
01:49:51more income. I can give details if desired.
01:49:55Second, this presentation states that if you become a member
01:49:58of Bar Association No. 2, when you take the judge and prosecutor exam,
01:50:01when we refer you, the Ministry of Justice
01:50:05will also treat you favorably in the judge and prosecutor interview
01:50:09based on our reference, and will accept you.
01:50:12In other words, we will provide another reflection
01:50:15of nepotism. And in this way,
01:50:18the efforts to strengthen Bar Association No. 2
01:50:22and increase its membership have turned into a bar association
01:50:26activity, a lobbying activity, supported by the government.
01:50:29This is very dangerous. We said it that day,
01:50:33we said it when this law was being made.
01:50:35Just as there is only one governorship in a province, and you cannot establish a second
01:50:39governorship there, there is no need
01:50:43to establish a second bar association,
01:50:46neither in terms of meeting a need,
01:50:49nor in terms of having such a desire. Moreover,
01:50:52now, if a power of attorney
01:50:56is given from Bar Association No. 2 to someone,
01:50:59it is very clear that they are a pro-government
01:51:02lawyer. And because they are pro-government,
01:51:05it is being attempted to present being a member
01:51:08of Bar Association No. 2 as having a separate privilege
01:51:11in this country where the rule of the powerful
01:51:14is desired to be established. We,
01:51:17nobody should make fun of our intelligence. As someone who was directly
01:51:21involved in the struggle against its establishment
01:51:24and against its existence, I say that you,
01:51:28Mr. Lawyer Gökan Ağdemir,
01:51:31are openly admitting that Bar Association No. 2
01:51:35is specially protected by the Ministry of Justice.
01:51:38This is another proof of how much
01:51:41things have been deformed in the administration of this country.
01:51:45You are also losing your power to stand against
01:51:48things that should be in accordance with the law in your duty
01:51:51in a state of law, with the opportunities
01:51:54that the government provides you.
01:51:57Furthermore, the fact that Bar Association No. 2
01:52:00has not multiplied until today stems from the clear acceptance
01:52:03among my lawyer colleagues that this situation is unnecessary.
01:52:06I would like to finish with one sentence.
01:52:10In Turkey, all kinds of rights exist,
01:52:13except in very exceptional cases. Among these, there is the right to be protected from defamation,
01:52:16among these, there is the right to freedom of thought and dissemination of thought,
01:52:19and among these, there is the freedom of the press
01:52:23and the right to information. However, when a dual legal system
01:52:27is applied in the country, these rights exist
01:52:30çalışılıyor, biz eee kimse bizim
01:52:33aklımızda alay etmesin, bunun kuruluş anını ve
01:52:37olmaması için verilen ülkesel mücadelenin bizzat
01:52:40içinde olan birisi olarak ben diyorum ki, siz
01:52:44sayın avukat Gökan aademir,
01:52:47siz açık açık 2i nolu baroların Adalet
01:52:50Bakanlığı tarafından özel. himaye altına
01:52:53alındığının ikrarını
01:52:56yapıyorsunuz. Bu, bu, bu
01:52:59ülkenin yönetiminde nerelere kadar nelerin
01:53:03deforme edildiğinin ayrı bir
01:53:06kanıtı, siz iktidarın
01:53:10bu size sağladığı olanaklarla hukuk
01:53:14devletinde yaptığınız görevde
01:53:17hukuka uygun olması gereken şeylerin
01:53:20karşısında durabilecek. "gücünüzü de
01:53:23kaybediyorsunuz, kaldı ki bugüne kadar iki
01:53:27nolu baroların çoğalmaması avukat meslektaşlarım
01:53:30arasında bu durumun yersizliğinin
01:53:34artık net olarak kabul görmesinden
01:53:37kaynaklanıyor. bir cümleyle bitirmek
01:53:41isterim, Türkiye'de her
01:53:44türlü hak, çok istisnai haller dışında
01:53:48var, bunların içinde lekelenme hakkı da."
01:53:52var, bunların içinde düşünce ve düşünceyi yayma hakkı da var, yine
01:53:56bunların içinde basın özgürlüğü ve haber
01:54:00alma hakkı da var,
01:54:03fakat ülkede ikili bir hukuk
01:54:05uygulanınca bu haklar
01:54:08when they are in favor of the government,
01:54:12but when they are against the government, they are neglected and considered worthless.
01:54:15The right to be protected from defamation exists for AKP members, but not for anyone else.
01:54:19The right to freedom of thought and dissemination of thought
01:54:23exists for AKP members, but not for anyone else.
01:54:26Freedom of the press and the right to information exist
01:54:29if you are an AKP member and write things that benefit
01:54:33the AKP, they exist to the fullest.
01:54:37But if you expose a mistake of the government or the AKP,
01:54:40even if your news or photograph is true,
01:54:43you don't have these rights, you have jail.
01:54:47This is called dual law. Our constitution says
01:54:49everyone is equal before the law. With what right
01:54:52do you apply a dual legal system? "The harm caused by
01:54:55this presidential system of government, this bizarre
01:54:59form of governance, is being experienced more deeply
01:55:03by our country every passing day,
01:55:06and continues to be experienced. This is a situation that can be experienced
01:55:09regardless of these people, if your system is like this.
01:55:12But under the current administrators,
01:55:16we see its most striking examples, and we will continue
01:55:19to see them. We must get rid
01:55:23of this order as soon as possible, both systemically
01:55:26and from these administrators with this mindset.
01:55:29Therefore, we want the ballot box to come before us
01:55:32as soon as possible. Because when the ballot box comes,
01:55:36people do not have the chance to fight every incident individually,
01:55:40and they don't have that power. But when the ballot box comes,
01:55:43they have the power to hold them accountable. Therefore, the ballot box that comes as soon as possible
01:55:46will be Turkey's hope and the beginning of brighter tomorrows,
01:55:50I say. Well, Mr. Uzun,
01:55:53as a politician, a lawyer, and someone who served as a bar association
01:55:57president in the previous period, and also as someone who says he fought
01:56:00against this, he said he was not surprised, but when we heard it, we felt the need
01:56:04to watch it again, wondering if we heard correctly.
01:56:07Murat Emir says, "While we were talking about guaranteed transit bridges
01:56:10and guaranteed flight airports, now we have
01:56:14Bar Association No. 2 with guaranteed judgeship."
01:56:18They proudly explain cronyism on screen.
01:56:21I have a minute left, I'm going to commercial,
01:56:25but is it a proud explanation, an admission,
01:56:28or a reflection of nepotism? What does Yaşar Aydın say?
01:56:31Both, but let me say this very briefly, governments
01:56:35stand with the support of citizens. If there is no support from citizens,
01:56:38if there is no consent, they can only stand
01:56:41with bribery and buying loyalty. Today, those who formed the fund,
01:56:45and the İzmir Metropolitan Municipality, this is a relationship
01:56:48established with the government only by giving bribes.
01:56:51They give bribes to become judges and prosecutors,
01:56:54they go to Bar Association No. 2, they buy this bribe,
01:56:58then see the and prosecutors, and then
01:57:01they pay their debts to the government. This is the system. Whether it's with the fund
01:57:05or one municipality passing to another municipality,
01:57:08this matter is one and the same. The government has now found
01:57:11this way of governing, because it cannot produce consent,
01:57:15it can only survive with bribery, blackmail,
01:57:19and threats. This is an indicator of this,
01:57:22and it will continue like this. Because as long as it cannot produce
01:57:25consent, it will always resort to illegal
01:57:28methods. This is a very clear example
01:57:32and actually a method that we all anticipated,
01:57:36because such lawlessness can only occur
01:57:39through those who become judges and prosecutors in this way.
01:57:42Ms. Ceren, would you like to add a few sentences here
01:57:46on this matter? Of course,
01:57:49what we said earlier about the fund
01:57:52is related to the current system we are in.
01:57:55That is, the issue is not the fund.
01:57:59If it is, then the ones who should be blamed
01:58:02are not individuals, but the system itself.
01:58:06The issue of judges,
01:58:09prosecutors, and lawyers, who should be responsible
01:58:12for our sense of justice and our legal rights,
01:58:14being appointed by this method actually comes down to
01:58:17the same thing. That is, if you change
01:58:21the system from within, if you establish
01:58:25your hegemonic structure within itself,
01:58:28not just your cultural hegemony,
01:58:30then it is actually not possible to talk about democracy,
01:58:34or the republic, or fundamental rights and freedoms.
01:58:37As Yaşar Bey also said, if you appoint
01:58:40judges and prosecutors who accept to become
01:58:44judges and prosecutors by this method, who not only crave this,
01:58:47but also act as an outcome of this system,
01:58:50then the outcomes of that system will do what is necessary
01:58:54when the time comes. All of these
01:58:57are a system problem. The issue is actually
01:59:00about the regime, no matter what we talk about.
01:59:03So, the issue
01:59:07comes down to a system problem, says Mr. Mumay.
01:59:10At the end of this segment, we said that Mr. Cumhur Uzun,
01:59:13Member of Parliament for Muğla from the New Party, would be leaving us.
01:59:17I want to thank Mr. Uzun. Thank you for your contribution,
01:59:20Mr. Uzun. I thank you.
01:59:24I wish good broadcasts to my friends who continue.
01:59:27I also thank our viewers for watching us.
01:59:31I greet them with respect from Muğla again.
01:59:34We thank you. We also conveyed our love to Muğla.
01:59:37Let's take a break, then we'll be back.
01:59:41Halk TV is again at the top
01:59:42among news channels,
02:00:22again number one by a wide margin in September.
02:00:25Halk TV was number one throughout September
02:00:28in the total audience all-day category.
02:00:31In the ABC group, it was number one for 30
02:00:35out of 30 days, and in the AB category,
02:00:38it was number one for 30 out of 30 days.
02:00:42Halk TV, you are not alone. not alone.
02:00:44değilsiniz.