Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:11Pertsev saying that Russia will, of course,
00:00:15be watching what is happening in Serbia, and that it wants
00:00:18a government that is friendly to Russia. What does
00:00:22this message, three weeks before the elections,
00:00:26tell us? Well, of course, Russia as...
00:00:30"an autocratic empire, it always engages in some kind of personal
00:00:33contacts with the authorities in those countries
00:00:37it wants to influence. Sometimes it has to bribe various
00:00:41politicians. Sometimes, in countries similar to ours, which
00:00:44have either an autocratic regime or a hybrid regime, they can
00:00:47directly really contact the people who
00:00:51make decisions there, and of course, that suits them as long as their interests
00:00:55are not threatened. And as far as
00:00:58our elections are concerned, they really say they
00:01:02are following them. They are indeed following them
00:01:04in the sense that if Vučić shows weakness,
00:01:08he cannot stay in power. They will not interfere; they will let him
00:01:12go down the drain. They will wait for a new government to be formed and will start
00:01:15pressuring it, for example, with a new gas arrangement, similar to
00:01:19how they pressured the previous
00:01:21government. They will not even mention Vučić and will not
00:01:25remember him. That is, for Russia, that specific Vučić is not
00:01:28someone who is... personally important. He is important as long as
00:01:32he has the levers of power. When he, if he loses those levers of power,
00:01:36the one who succeeds him will be important, and Russia will start to
00:01:39build similar relations. We, of course, with the aim of building the same
00:01:43relations with the next set of leaders. And
00:01:46that's why, that's why I said what I said in the previous segment, that
00:01:50we must sever those ties with Russia so that
00:01:54we can, if we want to create some kind of free, functional state and so
00:01:57on, that's why we must sever ties with Russia. Then
00:02:00we have literally a connection
00:02:04with Europe. That's a two-in- one, that's right. That connection
00:02:08with Europe is perhaps a new methodology
00:02:11on which the European Union will decide
00:02:15in the future. That is not unanimous,
00:02:18but by majority, but it mentions precisely that
00:02:22it will specifically look at how candidate countries are progressing and how they
00:02:26relate. They did not specifically mention Russia and
00:02:30China, but they mean precisely Russia and
00:02:33China, which means that further progress
00:02:36will primarily depend on these relations. Yes, well,
00:02:40that new process simply shows that somehow this
00:02:43specific enlargement model has reached a dead end in reality
00:02:47because even if you have states like ours that
00:02:51truly do not want to implement these reforms, I mean, the government simply does not want to implement them, it does not
00:02:54want to bring that process to an end, there is simply no desire.
00:02:58That informally freezes
00:03:02within that society, within that state,
00:03:06you have an increasing intolerance towards the European
00:03:09Union, because it is very easy for those states and those
00:03:12authorities to tell their citizens that they don't
00:03:16want them, that nobody sees them there, they
00:03:19just want to exploit them and so on, they simply cover themselves,
00:03:23they factually cover their decision, that's all. And now this new
00:03:27process, yes, it would be some kind of evaluation process, not... so that you
00:03:30go, I mean, it's somehow like that university reform that
00:03:34used to be, not that you listen to the whole subject and then at the end
00:03:37take the exam all at once, but it's parceled out so
00:03:40that you now take that exam in practically several parts.
00:03:44This is similar, and when you take,
00:03:47for example, close those chapters, you again get some benefit, that is, they let
00:03:50you into some parts, I don't know, of the common market
00:03:54or the decision-making policy, various
00:03:57projects, so that's money specifically and... some influence
00:04:00that we can have through that
00:04:03process. So, not everything awaits us at the end of the rainbow,
00:04:06but as we progress, we get
00:04:10concrete benefits. That's something that really
00:04:12high-level corruption, I mean sounds more functional than the current one, which makes the government's narrative
00:04:16that when they say they'll do everything, then
00:04:19when the time comes for harmonization with
00:04:23the European Union's foreign policy, they'll do it at the end,
00:04:26practically falls apart, right? That narrative falls apart, yes.
00:04:30Well, our government or regime,
00:04:33they pursue such a policy that, I would say, they never want
00:04:36to bring any of those processes to an end,
00:04:40any of them concerning Europe, reforms, and so
00:04:43on. They just want to stay on that path. Yes, they don't want
00:04:46these negotiations to be officially frozen, for example. They have
00:04:50frozen funds, for example,
00:04:52but in the end, these negotiations are not formally
00:04:56stopped. They haven't been expelled, for example, from this European People's Party and something
00:05:00similar, and these are some, shall we say,
00:05:03concrete consequences that send a concrete signal that we have somehow
00:05:07stood against Europe, and this way it seems as if
00:05:10we are somewhat in between. "And like the government never gives up, but
00:05:14I'm stuck in one place. Uh, I mean, on the other hand,
00:05:18we see that Russia uses that much better than Europe
00:05:22in the sense that Russia is a state with one master who can make all these decisions
00:05:25how to control all these centers, how to
00:05:29blackmail, and Europe is simply a conglomerate of different
00:05:32states in which our government, our state, perhaps has
00:05:36bilateral relations with these member states, it can achieve
00:05:39a more favorable position for itself, so..." for example, we saw when
00:05:43decisions are made about us, about different clusters, one group of countries is against it, for example, these
00:05:47Baltic states, Poland, for example, these neighboring
00:05:50countries, with them we can, if there's good will,
00:05:53agree, but simply there is this one group of northern
00:05:57and eastern countries that simply does not tolerate our ties with
00:06:00Russia, and that's it. We're stuck here and
00:06:03that won't change, even if we say that now we're not as
00:06:07corrupt or not as dysfunctional as we
00:06:11were yesterday. We'll still find ourselves in that
00:06:22how Ukraine has surpassed Serbia, for example, in the process
00:06:25of Euro-integration. Stay with
00:06:27N1.
00:06:36How did Ukraine enter the first rank of candidates for membership in the European
00:06:40Union, how did it leapfrog Serbia, which is now lagging behind? Does
00:06:43it really meet the standards or does it have the favor of Brussels? I will
00:06:47discuss this with Sofia Popović from Contemporary Politics, who was recently
00:06:51in Kyiv with her colleagues. There you spoke with
00:06:54representatives of the civil sector and with politicians and
00:06:58media. Do they all agree
00:07:01in their assessment that Ukraine has indeed made
00:07:04some steps, or do they see it, as I said,
00:07:08as some favor from Brussels, so now Ukraine is in the first row?
00:07:13"The picture is mixed, given the fact that
00:07:16after the Russian invasion, or rather, due to geopolitical circumstances, Ukraine even
00:07:20got the opportunity to negotiate full membership, because before that, it
00:07:24did not have a European perspective. Of course,
00:07:28colleagues, journalists and experts are
00:07:30dissatisfied with the pace of reforms that
00:07:33the government is implementing, but on the other hand,
00:07:37they clearly had results to show and tell us about, which the government
00:07:41has indeed implemented." So the narrative that we can
00:07:44hear in Serbia in the region that Ukraine
00:07:48is a political leader, that all this is happening because
00:07:51of geopolitics, is really not entirely true,
00:07:54because Ukraine has results behind it, especially
00:07:58in the area of rule of law, chapter 23 when
00:08:01we talk, for example, about the fight against corruption,
00:08:05these are results that even countries in the region that have been negotiating
00:08:09much longer cannot boast of. And what are... what are some
00:08:13specific steps that now put Ukraine in that
00:08:16first row? What have they specifically done that, for example,
00:08:20hasn't been done here in Serbia or the region? So,
00:08:23what is important is to take into account that it is a country that is
00:08:26at war, that some things that Ukraine is currently
00:08:30doing, some reforms, simply must be implemented after
00:08:34the war ends. These are, for example, criteria, those
00:08:37parts of the accession process that relate, for example, to economic
00:08:41criteria. Mhm. "When it comes to the rule of law, Ukraine
00:08:44did not start from scratch. So, in 2013,
00:08:48they had a change of regime that was similar to this
00:08:51regime here. After that, they started implementing
00:08:55reforms that were not related to the European Union, meaning
00:08:59liberating state institutions, media, starting the fight against
00:09:02corruption, because corruption was, especially then, the
00:09:06biggest problem of Ukrainian society, and they have, when
00:09:09we speak specifically about those reforms, created..."
00:09:12an entire system for combating corruption that yields
00:09:16results. I'll just tell you that Ukraine now has over
00:09:19250 convictions for high-level corruption. When I say
00:09:24that the president of the Supreme
00:09:27Court of Ukraine was convicted in a case that involved about
00:09:312.5 million dollars in bribes.
00:09:34I'm talking about vice prime ministers, I'm talking about
00:09:38cabinet members of President
00:09:40Zelensky. One of them was... involved in a money laundering affair for
00:09:44some 10 million dollars, and a country at war
00:09:47prosecutes the head of the cabinet
00:09:50of the president who also commands the forces of Ukraine. I think that is
00:09:54something that is unimaginable in Serbia, but in the region.
00:09:58If we add up all the cases of high-level corruption prosecutions in the region, I
00:10:01don't know if there are even 30. Yet one country has over
00:10:05250. And what is interesting when I mentioned that
00:10:08anti-corruption system, it has a
00:10:11special police, a special prosecutor's office,
00:10:15a special anti-corruption court, a special
00:10:17appeals court, so that somewhere, it depends from case to
00:10:21case, but on average, the period from when the police initiate
00:10:24proceedings to the final judgment is somewhere between a year and a year and a half,
00:10:27which is a system that is truly effective and yields
00:10:31results. What we heard in Ukraine that we didn't know
00:10:34is that in these bodies, foreign, i.e.,
00:10:38international experts, play an important role,
00:10:41not in the sense that foreigners choose judges, but
00:10:45that foreigners in the process of choosing judges
00:10:48verify the integrity of these people,
00:10:51meaning their assets, whether they were involved in any
00:10:55questionable processes in the past, and so on. That is something
00:10:58that yields results, and it is unimaginable
00:11:01that we would see this in Serbia or any country
00:11:04in the region. And how independent is the anti-corruption agency and
00:11:08special prosecutor's office in Ukraine, and how independently
00:11:11can it really do its job? It really
00:11:15is independent because of these international
00:11:18experts I was just talking about, but
00:11:21of course, the government always tries to...
00:11:25"threaten the independence of these bodies. We had such an attempt
00:11:29last summer when the government in Ukraine, that is,
00:11:32the ruling party, tried to
00:11:35change the law so as to make these bodies
00:11:38less independent. We had a similar process in Serbia, but in
00:11:42Ukraine it did not pass, because in the midst of
00:11:46war we had strong demonstrations by both citizens and
00:11:49representatives of civil society, as well as appeals from the European Union to do it.
00:11:52It was abandoned, so..." That speaks volumes about
00:11:56how simply the government cannot even in wartime
00:11:59touch these bodies which, as I say, yield
00:12:02results, and citizens trust these
00:12:06bodies the most. We also mentioned media freedom.
00:12:09Uh, how much media freedom
00:12:12can exist in wartime conditions,
00:12:15what does it look like on the ground? We went to
00:12:19Kyiv with the idea of writing a story about
00:12:22media freedoms during the war, because we expected
00:12:26a completely different picture. What is happening in
00:12:29Ukraine, we were surprised by the fact that
00:12:32in a country at war, the media are more independent than
00:12:36here in Serbia. What is, for
00:12:39example, a challenge in Ukraine is that special program that is
00:12:42broadcast on all television stations, which was launched at
00:12:46the beginning of the invasion, which made sense, so
00:12:49that citizens hear the same information on all television stations
00:12:53about what is happening on the front, what is happening in major cities.
00:12:56However, as the war has been going on for more than four and a half years, that
00:13:00program, journalists say that the program no longer makes sense, so now
00:13:04journalists are trying to get out of that measure, which is very difficult given
00:13:07that a state of war has been declared on the territory, that
00:13:11the media must follow certain instructions given to them by the government, but
00:13:14we heard very interesting stories about how, for example,
00:13:18one investigative portal wrote a story
00:13:21about a corruption affair involving a high-ranking
00:13:25government official, that then the Ministry of Defense prohibited
00:13:28the publication of that story, but that out of solidarity all
00:13:31other media published that story because they did not have a formal
00:13:35prohibition, so media freedom in that sense is not threatened.
00:13:39Of course, the problem is partly funding, given
00:13:43that since the beginning of the war there have been fewer and fewer advertisements in Ukraine, so
00:13:46journalists are facing the same problems as
00:13:49everywhere in the world, but the independence of the media, I would say,
00:13:53exists, it's at a higher level than here in Serbia. Mhm, with the previous
00:13:57guest I talked about that change in the decision-making methodology in
00:14:00the European Union, that decisions are made by majority and not
00:14:04unanimously. How much does that favor Ukraine compared, for example, to Serbia?
00:14:08That favors Ukraine
00:14:11because the majority of
00:14:14European Union countries are for Ukraine's progress on
00:14:17that path. Currently, Hungary,
00:14:20regardless of the change of government, is blocking further opening
00:14:24of clusters for Ukraine due to the issue of the Hungarian
00:14:28national minority, so Ukraine is now facing the same scenario as other
00:14:32countries in the region, which is the blocking of negotiations due to some
00:14:35bilateral issues, but Ukraine with
00:14:38great enthusiasm, I would say, expects such a type
00:14:42of reform and transition to majority voting,
00:14:45although there is concern in Kyiv that
00:14:49a change in the type of membership could
00:14:52bring them. from what they want, and they only want full
00:14:56membership of Ukraine in the European Union, because they see this, along with the end
00:15:00of the war, as their strategic
00:15:04priority for the coming years. Uh, we already mentioned at the beginning that they are
00:15:07now in the first row of countries in the process
00:15:11of Euro-integration. Uh, on the other hand, Serbia opened
00:15:14its last cluster in December
00:15:172021. The war in Ukraine began in
00:15:20February 2022.
00:15:24And how did we now get into a situation where Serbia has been
00:15:28stagnating or regressing for five years, while Ukraine, which is
00:15:31at war, is moving forward? On the other hand, Serbia is now in the same
00:15:35group of countries as Turkey and Georgia, which
00:15:38absolutely have no EU perspective whatsoever.
00:15:42The reason why Serbia is stagnating on its European path, I would say,
00:15:46primarily lies in what is happening in Serbia,
00:15:49that is, the fact that more and more, so
00:15:52it seems there is no end to the regression in fundamental
00:15:56criteria, i.e., in the areas of rule of law.
00:16:00Of course, it was the government's decision not to
00:16:04align with sanctions against Russia that influenced this, so
00:16:07that progress could not be made. After that, we also had Banjska,
00:16:11so every year there was some, some bigger scandal
00:16:15in Serbia that simply confirms the decision of those countries
00:16:18that are against staying against it. On the other hand, countries
00:16:22like Montenegro or Albania recognized
00:16:25the geopolitical moment, because that geopolitical moment is not
00:16:29only positive for Ukraine, but also for
00:16:32the Western Balkans, so they are bringing their negotiations
00:16:36to an end while we are stagnating, but it is really
00:16:39difficult to watch how all the
00:16:42countries that are in that process, even those that are
00:16:46more recent like Moldova and Ukraine, are really
00:16:49truly surpassing. And during your stay in Kyiv, you talked
00:16:52with various actors. How do they
00:16:56view relations with Serbia, the fact that
00:16:59Serbia, through third countries, is still sending weapons to
00:17:03Ukraine, but has not imposed sanctions on Russia?
00:17:07What hurts them more or means more to them at this moment, the sending of weapons? What does
00:17:11that situation look like?
00:17:13Uh, unlike Serbia, where the government
00:17:17tried to put the topic of Ukraine's relations high on the agenda, primarily for
00:17:20European partners, not for the domestic public, the relationship between Ukraine
00:17:23and Serbia is not a top topic in Ukraine,
00:17:27but what we heard from our interlocutors, among
00:17:30them politicians from the ruling party, is that what is important,
00:17:34what is important to Ukraine, is "precisely what it gets from that relationship,
00:17:37which is, as you mentioned, weapons
00:17:40through third countries. In a way, they are,
00:17:44I would say, aware that the government uses
00:17:47its relationship with Ukraine as a kind of
00:17:51improvement of its reputation in Europe, but they are simply a country at war that
00:17:55looks after its own interests, and their most important interest is
00:17:58to get what they need most, which is weapons.
00:18:02But on the other hand, Serbia is indeed a topic there
00:18:06in a way. So..." the relationship of the Serbian Orthodox Church with the Russian
00:18:09Orthodox Church, the authorities, but it seems to me that they
00:18:12understand that kind of dependence
00:18:15uh on Russia, but not entirely the relations and
00:18:19uh the way the Serbian
00:18:27we will continue to talk about this topic. My colleague Aleksandra Gotfroa
00:18:30spoke with a journalist from Kyiv Independent about the European
00:18:34path and whether
00:18:37Ukraine is really making progress in the fight against
00:18:40corruption.
00:18:47Mr. Sukhov, thank you for speaking to N1. Ukraine's
00:18:51aspiration towards the European Union is neither new, nor has it been
00:18:54simple or easy. In 2013, the then President
00:18:58Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the Stabilization and Association
00:19:01Agreement, followed by the Revolution of Dignity. Then Russia
00:19:04annexed Crimea, and the war in eastern Ukraine began. Now Ukraine has opened its first
00:19:08clusters amidst a full-scale war. How did it manage to do that?
00:19:23Thank you for inviting me. I think that opening the clusters
00:19:26is probably a technical issue. I don't think it means there's much
00:19:30progress. Unfortunately, there's little progress in implementing the reforms
00:19:33required by the European Union, but some things that have been achieved in
00:19:37terms of reforms were achieved long before the negotiations
00:19:40formally began. I think the main reason they
00:19:44opened these clusters and accepted Ukraine's application for candidate
00:19:47status is that the European Union wanted to show
00:19:51solidarity with Ukraine during Russia's aggression against Ukraine, but
00:19:55as for reforms, I wouldn't say there's much
00:19:57progress. So, you think that the
00:20:01main factor that accelerated Ukraine's European path is the fact that there is a
00:20:05war, which is also a threat to the European Union, that is.
00:20:11Yes, I think so. To be objective, I must say that there have been relatively
00:20:15successful reforms in Ukraine, such as the formation of NAKO and SAPO,
00:20:19anti-corruption agencies, and an anti-corruption court, but
00:20:23they were not formed as part of negotiations with the European Union;
00:20:27they are separate from that. These bodies were formed long before
00:20:31Ukraine applied for
00:20:32membership.
00:20:35Let's talk about NAKO and SAPO. That is one of the legacies of the Revolution
00:20:39of Dignity, or Maidan, as that event is known worldwide.
00:20:43The creation of these completely independent bodies to fight corruption. Now
00:20:47these bodies are exposing corruption among very high-ranking
00:20:50officials, officials very close to Ukrainian President
00:20:54Zelensky. Does that hinder Ukraine's European
00:20:56path?
00:20:59No, it actually helps Ukraine on its path to the European Union, because that's what
00:21:03Ukraine can show Europe. It says: see, at least in some
00:21:07areas we have the rule of law, because if even the highest
00:21:10officials can be brought to justice, that means that it is,
00:21:14at least in some aspects, a successful reform, because earlier even
00:21:18NABU and SAPO primarily prosecuted middle-level
00:21:22and lower-level officials, but last year and this year the situation
00:21:26has drastically changed because they have filed indictments against the former
00:21:29head of Zelensky's cabinet, Andriy Yermak, before that against
00:21:33one of Zelensky's close associates, Timor Mindich, and now
00:21:36also against the former deputy head of the cabinet, Iryna Mudra.
00:21:40So, that shows that anyone can be brought to justice,
00:21:44that no one has immunity from the rule of law. Although
00:21:47there is a lot of resistance to all this, and the government is trying.
00:21:59There were attempts to limit the independence of NAKO SAPO. Zelensky
00:22:02had signed the corresponding law, then people took to the streets
00:22:05of Ukraine to protest. So, people said what they thought about it, and
00:22:09the European Union reacted. But the very fact that this
00:22:13happened, that an attempt was made to limit independence, that's not exactly
00:22:17a good message, is it?
00:22:21Obviously, it wasn't a good message. The only reason
00:22:24why the authorities decided to withdraw that decision last year, that
00:22:28attempt to limit the independence of NABU and SAPO,
00:22:31is that the explicit message from the West, and primarily
00:22:35from Europe, was that it was not acceptable. Also,
00:22:38the position of Ukrainian society. These protests, in combination with European
00:22:42pressure, led to the withdrawal of the law which aimed to
00:22:46eliminate the independence of NABU and SAPO. The reason why
00:22:50the government wanted to eliminate the independence of these
00:22:53bodies is because the government thought that if it allowed
00:22:56NABU and SAPO to continue to act independently, then
00:23:00almost everyone around Zelensky might end up in prison at some
00:23:03point. It's obvious that they had an interest in stopping
00:23:07that, but thanks to the European Union and the people
00:23:10of Ukraine, that didn't
00:23:11happen.
00:23:20Let me ask you one more thing related to this topic. When those people are indicted,
00:23:23they either manage to escape, like Mindich or the former state
00:23:27prosecutor, or those who remain, Zelensky fires
00:23:29them. Does that show Zelensky's true desire to fight
00:23:33corruption, or is it perhaps about damage
00:23:35control?
00:23:44Well, if someone manages to escape, that shows that that person may
00:23:48have received some leaked information from the Anti-Corruption Agency
00:23:51or another body, the SBU or the State
00:23:55Prosecutor's Office helped that corrupt person, for example
00:23:58Mindich. If such officials or associates
00:24:01of the president are allowed to escape, that shows
00:24:04that there is little political will to fight corruption,
00:24:08i.e., there are probably attempts to protect them.
00:24:11When Zelensky decides to fire some officials, for example,
00:24:15Yermak or Iryna Mudra, that means that
00:24:18he is afraid of a negative reaction from the public, he is afraid that his
00:24:21ratings will continue to fall, that he will become very unpopular.
00:24:25Yes, that is damage control, that is an attempt to
00:24:28stay above that scandal, an attempt to portray himself as someone
00:24:32who is not involved in corruption
00:24:34schemes.
00:24:38My last question, one of the requirements in the accession process, and
00:24:41I'm asking you this also because of the situation in Serbia, is media freedom. You
00:24:45work for an independent media, So, what is the situation with media freedom in
00:24:49Ukraine? And I'm taking into account, of course, that Ukraine is at war, that war imposes
00:24:53certain restrictions, but what is
00:24:55the situation?
00:25:00Even before Zelensky became president and during Poroshenko's time and before
00:25:04that, there were always attempts to restrict freedom of speech. After
00:25:08the start of the Russian invasion in 2022, Zelensky
00:25:11gained greater powers, wartime powers, and therefore now has
00:25:15a greater ability to restrict freedom of speech. For example, there's that
00:25:19TV marathon. which unites all television
00:25:22channels, which the European Union criticized because it restricts freedom
00:25:25of speech. Now almost no one believes that it's necessary,
00:25:29although it might have been necessary at the beginning of the invasion,
00:25:33though that can be doubted, but now it's definitely not necessary
00:25:36anymore, but they're holding that TV marathon, not
00:25:40allowing private independent TV channels to
00:25:43operate independently, which is an obvious restriction and
00:25:46censorship. There were many attempts to pressure
00:25:49the media there. There were cases where
00:25:52some activists, anti-corruption fighters, such as
00:25:56Vitaliy Shabunin, were accused in suspicious criminal
00:26:00cases that many people
00:26:03treated as pressure due to their criticism of the
00:26:06authorities. These pressures continue, but I must say that the Ukrainian media
00:26:10community resisted, that it remained very strong despite attempts
00:26:13of censorship. Journalists have a large number of journalistic investigations
00:26:17into corruption, and the more such investigations there are, the greater the pressure
00:26:21on journalists, because officials have more
00:26:23reasons to pressure independent media, to pressure the media.
00:26:27Mr.
00:26:44Towards the end of the show, we go to Brazil where general elections were held.
00:26:48The current president Lula was expected to win in the first
00:26:52round. However, Flavio Bolsonaro, son of former president
00:26:55Jair, finished ahead of Lula with
00:26:5847/45
00:27:00percent of the votes. The difference is about 2 million voters, since
00:27:04no one won a majority, the decision will be made on October 25th in
00:27:08the second round. This result shows that the political
00:27:12movement of Flavio's father, former president Jair Bolsonaro,
00:27:15still has great strength, even though he is in
00:27:18prison. In the campaign, everyday problems such
00:27:22as prices, but also urban
00:27:25violence, prevailed. Flavio promises a tougher response to
00:27:28crime and economic policies with lower
00:27:31taxes. relies on social programs, public
00:27:34investments, and the results of his previous mandates. For
00:27:38Lula, this is his seventh presidential candidacy.
00:27:41He first won back in 2002, the second
00:27:45time in 2006. He returned to power in
00:27:482022. Specifically by defeating Jair
00:27:51Bolsonaro. After that defeat, Jair's supporters
00:27:55stormed institutions in Brasília. The former president was
00:27:58later sentenced for attempted coup to 27 years.
00:28:02Therefore, the second round is not just a discussion about economics for some
00:28:06voters, it is also a question of Brazil's attitude
00:28:09towards the events that followed the previous
00:28:12elections. Brazil can no longer continue like this, and I am very satisfied because
00:28:16many public opinion research agencies placed us behind
00:28:20the opponent while our internal polls showed that we were leading, which was
00:28:24confirmed.
00:28:26We had a real chance to win already in the first round. The result
00:28:30is unexpected, I must admit that I was convinced that I would win in the first
00:28:33round, ahead of us are only uncertainty, murky biographies,
00:28:37a dark past, in the biography of the father, in the biography
00:28:40of the son, there is nothing that hints at a promising future for Brazilian
00:28:44society. The right and the Bolsonaro family
00:28:47have strengthened even outside the presidential race. Michelle
00:28:50Bolsonaro, Jair's wife and his son Carlos
00:28:54won seats in the Senate, the youngest
00:28:57son Jair Renan and Jair's brother
00:29:00Renato were elected as deputies, the Senate is particularly
00:29:04important, out of 54 newly elected senators,
00:29:0734 come from the right, senators in Brazil
00:29:11have the authority to decide on the impeachment of Supreme
00:29:14Court judges, institutions that freed
00:29:17Jair Bolsonaro. Flavio Bolsonaro hopes that a
00:29:21presidential victory would open the way for him to achieve
00:29:25his father's release through amnesty or
00:29:28pardon. In the second round, he will count on the votes
00:29:31of other right-wing candidates who together won a few
00:29:35percentage points. Lula, on the other hand, has three
00:29:38weeks to win over the undecided and get his
00:29:41supporters to the polls. The first round changed
00:29:44expectations, the second will decide who leads