Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00uh like the 500 diplomats, and
00:00:04I think we we are
00:00:05in a crisis,
00:00:06you know, I
00:00:07of of mean, I think what what contains this particular
00:00:11question
00:00:12of of of Israel, Palestine, the
00:00:14genocide, it is taking place in the
00:00:18context that the entire international law
00:00:21is questioned, I mean if the president
00:00:24of the United States says he does not need
00:00:27a international law, if
00:00:30of you know... "the
00:00:31of entire body of of law is not
00:00:33of being uphold, you can make sanctions against the ICC
00:00:37for ruling on something which is absolutely in their
00:00:41duty and and obligation to rule, we are looking a
00:00:45of lawless situation, and I think that is why I have been
00:00:49arguing for the last several years
00:00:52of of that we urgently need new international security architecture,
00:00:56because international law and the the order as..."
00:01:00emerged after the end
00:01:02of the cold war, where there was an attempt to establish an
00:01:05unilateral dominance of certain
00:01:08countries, that clearly is falling apart, if
00:01:12you look at the so-called middle east, southwest asia, the
00:01:16entire security architecture, as it existed
00:01:19before the United States and Israel started the two
00:01:23wars against Iran is also disintegrating,
00:01:27so for the for southeast Asia. "there is an urgent need
00:01:31to have new security
00:01:33of architecture, which you
00:01:35must
00:01:37be, you know, guaranteeing naturally the rights
00:01:40of the Palestinians, a Palestinian
00:01:43state, it must provide however economic
00:01:47development for all countries, because the only name for
00:01:51peace is development, so I think that we are
00:01:54in a an unbelievable
00:01:56of tool where people have to review that the policies"
00:02:00which existed up to now clearly have
00:02:03failed, the order has fallen apart, the new
00:02:07order is not yet there, but I think
00:02:11the the the everything has to start with the idea that
00:02:15international law must be uphold, this is why the
00:02:18UN charter must be respected, the
00:02:21of Geneva Convention, the instruments
00:02:27of of the UN like of the ICC and the International Court of Justice,
00:02:29the they must be respected
00:02:32of as of absolute authority, because otherwise we are in great
00:02:36danger of falling into anarchy on the whole
00:02:39of globe. absolutely, miss Helga Zepla Rush,
00:02:42in founder Shilla Institute, thank you very much for being with us on this episode of
00:02:46in unfold, we really appreciate you taking time out. Sarah, coming back to you one last question,
00:02:50talk about the diet humanitarian crisis that has been
00:02:54of unfolding in Gaza in
00:02:55a particular, now we know for fact there
00:02:59haven't... been ample supplies when it
00:03:02of comes to the medicines, also when we talk
00:03:05about the lack of access to the clean drinking
00:03:08of water, from the very basic communities
00:03:10of of life over there, with with the kind of given
00:03:14approach on the part
00:03:15of the Europeans in the kind of approach and the strategy in the Trump administration
00:03:19as well, and also how Israelies have been
00:03:23going about in order to criticize and also coming hard
00:03:27on what the UN, UN's policy and its
00:03:31subsidiary agencies work in Gaza was
00:03:35of concerned, what is the way forward when it comes to
00:03:38alleviating the suffering
00:03:40of the gazons amid this entire humanitarian
00:03:43crisis? Egypt of course has a great roll
00:03:47in that, Egypt along with other arab countries and
00:03:51of Israel of course has been pushing backward our
00:03:54all of our efforts to push inward the
00:03:58supplies and the humanitarian aid for our flow
00:04:02of palestinians in and there has been push and pull uh
00:04:06between us um on the
00:04:09of of borders especially across the raf the rafa crossing
00:04:13border and we have managed to get into to get the supplies and
00:04:17the aid into the gas for the
00:04:21palestinian people and we're still actually pushing
00:04:24with the sharp
00:04:26of shake peace plan and um we do
00:04:30need more international society pressure on
00:04:33Israel, that's why we do need the EU and more
00:04:37pressure
00:04:38of on the Israely part
00:04:39of because we're talk we're talking about
00:04:42very small area of land the Gaza strip and the it's
00:04:46of totally destructed with 1 million a half people
00:04:49among dead bodies on the
00:04:53sides and only the sea in front
00:04:56of them, only the Mediterranean in front
00:04:59of them so... Egypt as a state has been pushing and
00:05:02pushing with our efforts, diplomatic efforts and we have
00:05:06managed to get
00:05:08a some um infrastructure tools and
00:05:12workers and so to rebuild gaza, but we do
00:05:16need more international society pressure, especially today
00:05:20with Trump, jeopardizing world peace with the Iranian
00:05:23war, and not only that, also
00:05:26threatening international court of justice today and and
00:05:30and threating that that there would be no such
00:05:34authority in the world threatening that there would be
00:05:37no international law in the world, so
00:05:41god knows what? happen with 1 million and a half people in Gaza, only the
00:05:45sea in front them with no more international
00:05:49society pressure on Israel to have those people still
00:05:52alive on their land. Masara Kira,
00:05:56expert international relations, founder the European North African center for research, thank you
00:06:00very much for taking time out for unfold tonight, we really appreciate that with that we
00:06:04come to the end the first segment of today's show, into
00:06:08the second segment we are going to understand what is exact
00:06:11exactly. happening when it comes to the US Iran
00:06:15conflict is concerned, we know for fact that Washington has decided to
00:06:18postpone any fresh strikes against Iran until after the
00:06:22midterm elections, also when we talk about
00:06:26there
00:06:27are there are increased attacks by the Houti rebels against Kingdom of Saudi
00:06:30Arabia, kingdom of Saudi Arabia has befittingly
00:06:34responded to this particular aggression on the part of Futi
00:06:38rebels, also that commitment of standing
00:06:42behind the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, coming from
00:06:45Pakistan as well as Turkey, all these three
00:06:49countries entered into a mutual defense agreement,
00:06:53Makka defense agreement and Pakistan has
00:06:56already deployed its troops over there, that has
00:07:00been confirmed by the DJI SPR, also Pakistan's commitment when it
00:07:04comes to ensuring the sovereignty territory integrity and overall
00:07:08security the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, we know for fact both turkey.
00:07:13and Pakistan had given that applause
00:07:17when it comes to the vigilance and preparedness of kingdom of Saudi Arabia in
00:07:20dealing and thouting this threat by the auti rebels. Also we
00:07:24know for fact there was already a destruction as far as the straight of homos
00:07:28concerned also uncertainity around Red
00:07:32Sea as well as Babel Mander. We have already seen the
00:07:35consequences all around the globe in terms the economic
00:07:39consequences. Also with the increased oil prices. rising
00:07:43shipping costs also manifesting into
00:07:46inflation, at the same time we have
00:07:50seen the regional countries trying their utmost in order to
00:07:53bring the situation back to some sort
00:07:57of normalcy through the diplomatic intervention. we know for
00:08:01fact Pakistan played a pivoted role when it came to deescalating the situation
00:08:05between Iran and the US. its commitment on one
00:08:08side with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, security also urging
00:08:13for the deescalation the situation, what does that
00:08:16exactly means and what are the chances of diplomacy taking
00:08:20precedence or lead in comparison to the military
00:08:24escalation? that is the key question we are going to understand, for that we
00:08:27are on to been joined by Mr. Joe Hoodd, former
00:08:31acting secretary of state for near Eastern
00:08:34affairs. Mr. Hood, thank you very much for being with us on the show
00:08:38tonight, really appreciate that. Also we are honored to being joined.
00:08:42Dr. Steven Turner, he is analyst geopolitical Affairs, Dr. Turner, thank you very
00:08:46much for your time also for being with us on the show tonight, really appreciate
00:08:50that ambassador. I'll begin with you,
00:08:54what sense should we be making of this
00:08:58decision on the part of Washington to postpone the new
00:09:01strikes against Iran until after the midterm
00:09:04elections? Well, thank you for having me. I
00:09:08think that Donald Trump wants to do a couple of things. First, he wants to
00:09:11remind the regime in Tehran that military
00:09:14action is still an option and that they
00:09:18should um consider that in terms their
00:09:21diplomacy, and second, I think he wants to
00:09:25make sure that the American public and the oil markets understand
00:09:29that he's not going to do anything that's going to cause
00:09:33uh oil prices to spike even temporarily between now and
00:09:37the final day the election on November 3rd,
00:09:41because most... are not following the day-to-day of
00:09:45this war, um, you see interviews of people on the street in
00:09:49various media outlets and some the people
00:09:52are only vaguely aware that there is a war with
00:09:55Iran, but what they're very aware of is how much they're spending
00:09:59to put gasoline in their vehicles every day, you know, Americans
00:10:03drive average about 50 kilometers a day to get to
00:10:07work, so this is something that American voters feel very
00:10:11acutely and...
00:10:13so Donald Trump is not going to
00:10:14want to do anything that's going to cause them to uh
00:10:18feel more pain at the gasoline pump uh before
00:10:21they go to the elections for the uh Congress
00:10:25and the Senate on November 3rd. Please do
00:10:29correct me if I am wrong. I I watched one the clips of Mr.
00:10:33President Donald Trump when you was asked about the
00:10:37question regarding the diesel coming from from Russia. Now
00:10:41is thank President Putin on that particular front. Is that
00:10:44correct and what sort of an impact it is going to have when it comes to
00:10:48President Trump saying that there is lot of oil that is going to
00:10:52come in America in the coming days. "do you think it's going to
00:10:56have
00:10:56a considerable relief for the citizens and could perhaps
00:10:59sway in in the general public
00:11:03opinion when it comes to the lowest approval ratings for president Donald Trump just
00:11:06before the November midterm elections? sure
00:11:10the answer is no, this is not enough diesel to
00:11:14make any effect on the world market
00:11:18and prices in the United States are set by world market prices,
00:11:22not by simply what supply we have. inside the
00:11:26United States, so um, I think if the
00:11:29president was hoping to have an effect on the
00:11:33futures trading and and the price of diesel from day to
00:11:36day, that has already failed, and I don't
00:11:40think that these deliveries of diesel are going
00:11:43to have enough time even to have an effect on the
00:11:46market, because voting is already underway,
00:11:50most states allow some form of early
00:11:53voting, absent. voting uh, so lot of Americans
00:11:57have already casted their ballots or are getting ready to do so in
00:12:01the next couple of weeks, so even if uh these
00:12:05deliveries were to have an effect sometime toward the end of October, that
00:12:09probably would be too late for many voters. Exactly, your point is well
00:12:13taken, please stay with us ambassadorhood, let me bring in Dr. Turner into the
00:12:16discussion also. Dr. Turner, what's your understanding when we try to analyze as
00:12:20to what are the stakes with the for the Donald Trump
00:12:24said? administration, at this point in time, just before
00:12:28the midterm elections happen in November with Iran
00:12:32conflict is concerned,
00:12:35well, the Trump administration
00:12:38is running scared at this point, I mean the the Republican
00:12:42Party is anticipating major losses in the elections for
00:12:46both the US House of Representatives and for the US
00:12:49senate, and so the president is trying to find a way
00:12:53to minimize those losses. not try to make some gains
00:12:57by making even his foreign policy geared toward uh lowering
00:13:00gas prices, that's
00:13:02a very strange way to be acting um at least - for example
00:13:06if i were in the military a forward deployed um
00:13:10naval vessel or a base around Iran and I heard the president
00:13:13say that he was not going to strike Iran until the
00:13:17middle of November uh because the elections I would
00:13:21be very concerned because in the meantime it kind of gives the
00:13:25Iranian military and the IRGC an opportunity to build up their
00:13:29capacity to launch to launch attacks, to put things in motion
00:13:32and even to launch attacks with without the threat the United
00:13:36States um being willing to strike back, and that's very confusing,
00:13:40I mean I don't believe that if Iran were to strike a US base then the United
00:13:44States would refrain from striking back, but to try to
00:13:47put the the war in between the United States and Iran in the
00:13:50context of uh election campaigning is is
00:13:54very... very weird,
00:13:56and further more, the efforts to,
00:13:59lower the price of diesel by buying diesel or
00:14:03allowing Russia to sell diesel to the global
00:14:07market, and a time when europe is a war with
00:14:10Russia, fighting against Ukraine, and the United States
00:14:14is at war with Iran who's also receiving intelligence and support from
00:14:18Russia is very strange, because it it
00:14:20effectively aiding the enemy a war where we're
00:14:24fighting again. Russia is not an all the United
00:14:27States, these are these are very interesting choices to be
00:14:31making coming up, coming up to an election from foreign policy
00:14:34stand. Dr. Turn, that is exactly the point I'm
00:14:38curious to understand you about, when it comes to president Donald
00:14:42Trump talking often thanking President Putin for sending in the
00:14:46diesel, now there was an earlier stance when it comes to Trump's
00:14:50administration regarding Russian oil, more specifically when
00:14:53we talk about India. "now he had been saying
00:14:57about it that that oil was actually fueling the Ukraine
00:15:01war. now at this point in time is thanking president
00:15:05Putin for sending in the diesel, so with this
00:15:08contradiction, do you how do you think it's going to play out for the
00:15:11voters just when they are about to go for the
00:15:15midterm elections? well,
00:15:19the the voting public in the United States is very polarized, um, and that's
00:15:22by design, so I..." I'm certain that the you
00:15:26know people that um are opposed to the current administration are
00:15:30going to take these statements and become further infuriated by
00:15:34them and and it'll help galvanize them to to vote against him. but
00:15:38his supporters, if they're even going to be, if
00:15:41if the media that reports um that is
00:15:45washed by Trump supporters, even reports on these issues, they will minimize
00:15:49them or change them so that it plays well well
00:15:53for them, so I mean the reality is
00:15:57less important in the in in when it comes to campaigning
00:16:01than the way that the campaigners are able to
00:16:03spin, right, coming back to
00:16:07you and... ambassador hood, when we try to analyze Trump administration's
00:16:10policy ever since this invasion happened on 28th of
00:16:14February, is there any specified pattern that
00:16:18we can develop after looking at what President Trump has done on
00:16:21this front or do we see back and forth
00:16:25contradictions and statements and actions and do you see any
00:16:28any aspect the entire strategy working out?
00:16:32because clearly we see Iranians rejecting any sort of a
00:16:36pressure. rejecting any sort of
00:16:39military pressure or coversion, yet on the
00:16:43other side the remain open to dialogue, but not under
00:16:47pressure and coersion, so if this sort
00:16:50of a strategy or pattern of strategy on the Trump
00:16:54part of Trump Trump's administration did not work out throughout so
00:16:58far, so how do you think this
00:17:01policy of maximum pressure gonna work out in future and
00:17:05how he is going to... get something out of it to
00:17:09show to the public that at the end the day that he had got some sort of
00:17:13victory. well, as career diplomat
00:17:16i would disagree with you. i don't see any signs that the regime is
00:17:20ready for dialogue. what they're ready for is
00:17:24capitulation, and that is true of President Trump as
00:17:27well. uh, that's why we see them issuing uh
00:17:31seven-point statements about all the things the United States needs to
00:17:35do in order for Iran. then to enter into uh
00:17:39discussions again, and these include uh things
00:17:43that are, I think normal and reasonable for a
00:17:47dialogue, which would be unfreezing uh
00:17:50Iran's frozen assets uh
00:17:53and stopping the naval blockade
00:17:57in exchange for Iran no longer firing on commercial
00:18:01ships in those waters, uh, but it
00:18:05also includes completely ridiculous uh requirements such
00:18:09as ending the war on all fronts, and what they mean
00:18:12by that, as we've discovered after the demise the
00:18:16memorandum of understanding, is that Israel has to stop
00:18:20fighting hisbollah, the Lebanese government has to stop fighting
00:18:24Hezballah, the Iraqi government has to stop fighting Iran's
00:18:28militias there, the regime
00:18:31in in in
00:18:34the the Huti regime in Yemen needs to be.
00:18:38in
00:18:38that country, this
00:18:39is ridiculous, I mean the United States
00:18:42government cannot speak for all these
00:18:46other sovereign governments when it makes a deal with
00:18:50Iran, and that's exactly what Iran is demanding in order to
00:18:53move to an actual diplomatic
00:18:56discussion, so those are all that's just non those are
00:19:00non-starters, so I don't think
00:19:02that the Iranians are actually ready for
00:19:04dialogue. signed mou,
00:19:08although it fell apart the Islamabad memorandum of
00:19:12understanding, but the Yemen front was pretty much part of that and the
00:19:16US pretty much agreed to that, wasn't that the
00:19:19case? no, those were separate things, it was
00:19:23the Lebanon, I seek your pardon, it was the Lebanon, Lebanon
00:19:26front, again, no, I
00:19:30think that President Trump fully intens
00:19:33on the...
00:19:38of governments like Israel or Lebanon or Iraq
00:19:42in taking over the uh full
00:19:46sovereignty their own countries. I don't think any
00:19:50American president would stand in the way of that,
00:19:54so I think for the Iranians to be demanding that, they know that that's a
00:19:57non-starter, and I think it shows that they're just not serious about
00:20:01a real conversation, a real discussion with the United States government
00:20:05about a long-term Motus Vivendi. so so
00:20:09so as per your understanding, given this assessment of
00:20:12yours, what is behind this, what is
00:20:16at, what is the motivation when it comes to Iran's government's
00:20:20approach towards this whole crisis concerned, why are they serious for
00:20:24your understanding when it comes to the serious negotiations or
00:20:28striking any sort of sustainable agreement with the US is
00:20:31concerned, well I have the
00:20:34interesting opportunity of
00:20:37sitting with Iranian commentators in various media
00:20:41platforms and I've been doing so over the past six
00:20:44months on regular basis. Now we know that these
00:20:48commentators generally receive. their talking points from the revolutionary guard,
00:20:52so what we hear from them, I think we can understand as being
00:20:56representative the viewpoint the guard, and what
00:21:00I've heard from them consistently is, you lost, we
00:21:03won, you need to accept that, leave the region and we
00:21:07take over, we own the straight of horm now, we
00:21:11have hegemany where you have lost it, this
00:21:15is like the suez moment for the United Kingdom,
00:21:19they used to be the... security guarantor the region, then it had to pass to the
00:21:23United States, now it's passing to us, Iran.
00:21:27That's the very clear message, and I don't think anyone in the
00:21:30world frankly signs up to that, which is
00:21:34why there hasn't been any government in the world that has put out statements
00:21:38supportive of Tehran's positions. Right, ambassador
00:21:42Hood, let me take this very interesting point to Dr. Turner also, Dr.
00:21:46Turner, what's your assessment, are the Iranians?
00:21:50to enter into negotiations for any sustainable agreement with the US and also
00:21:53do you do you think if the Iranians
00:21:57consider it swis canal moment for for them
00:22:01with
00:22:01the we the straight of homose crisis? well i
00:22:05can certainly see why the Iranian government consider to have
00:22:09won the conflict at least at this stage, the united states has not
00:22:13been able to stop them from blocking the straight of war moves, um they
00:22:17haven't been able to get the Iranians to stop ' shooting missiles
00:22:21and rockets at their gulf neighbors or at American military
00:22:24bases, and even though the United States and and Israel have
00:22:28destroyed um, much of
00:22:30Iran's um air force and and
00:22:34long long um distance military
00:22:38capabilities and most likely it's you know it's nuclear
00:22:41program, Iran has pulled the trump card and by even
00:22:45just threatening to block the street of for moves they've put they've effectively
00:22:49imposed cripling. sanctions on the global economy, especially the United States.
00:22:53I mean, the Trump administration strategy of imposing further sanctions
00:22:57is not really going to move the needle at all. The United States has been imposing sanctions
00:23:01on the Islamic Republic since 1979, it's
00:23:05over 45 years. The only way that the United States really
00:23:08could expect to change the outcome the
00:23:12situation is by um
00:23:15significantly increasing the scope the conflict, and I don't think the
00:23:19United State. currently is willing to do anything the like the sort, so
00:23:23really Iran has no need um to set
00:23:27realistic um negotiations, I mean they know the
00:23:31United States has been negotiating with them for several decades, it knows
00:23:34what the Iranian regime wants, and until the United States
00:23:38is ready to give Iran those things, Iran
00:23:42has no need to change the way it's been acting, doesn't have reason
00:23:46to to lift the blockade the blockade, it doesn't have a...
00:23:50reason to negotiate in good faith,
00:23:53so you'll see,
00:23:55I mean Iran can sit out, can continue this situation
00:23:58and keep the status quo for years if it needs to, the
00:24:02they have no reason. right,
00:24:06Dr. Stephen Turner, analyst geopolitical affairs, thank you very much for taking time out for unfold
00:24:10tonight, we appreciate that, one last question, I
00:24:14mean, whatever is happening, I
00:24:16understand from you are coming,
00:24:20"all of those point make huge sense, do we understand
00:24:24any the regional mediators including Pakistan which played a pivot
00:24:28role when it came to the signing of Islamabad mou, also
00:24:32lot of efforts being put in by Qatar, Egypt, also lot
00:24:36of emphasis on the part of Turkey, is there any sort of
00:24:39leverage with any these mediators to perhaps bring
00:24:43back both the sides once again to the negotiating
00:24:47table or what would it take for them to do?" "
00:24:52that I think there is, I think that all sides now
00:24:55are uh waiting to see what happens with the mid-term elections and the elections in
00:24:59Israel, Iran wants to have as much influence
00:25:03over those as possible, Donald Trump wants to limit his losses as much as
00:25:07he can, so I don't think anything is going to be possible
00:25:11between now and then uh the Iranians may try to
00:25:14stage uh more spectacular attacks in order to continue driving
00:25:18up the price of oil,
00:25:19I would... expect that uh possibly expanding uh
00:25:22westward uh to not just to the Red Sea but
00:25:26the northern and southern parts the Sweez canal as well
00:25:30possibly, but um I think that after
00:25:33that Pakistan, Qatar and the other countries the region
00:25:37certainly could go to the UN security council and try to do something
00:25:40bold and get a UN security council approved
00:25:44resolution uh that would allow for naval
00:25:48peace monitoring mission. This is not a peacekeeping mission, but a peace
00:25:52monitoring mission that would go into the Gulf and into the Northern Arabian
00:25:55sea, and that would make it difficult
00:25:59for Iran or Donald Trump to say that they... still need
00:26:02to uh have naval blockade or in Iran's
00:26:06case continue to hit commercial shipping, that peace monitoring mission
00:26:10could say, we're here, we'll make sure there's nothing threatening on either
00:26:14side the straight, you two need to stop uh
00:26:18threatening each other and now go back to the negotiating table, I don't know
00:26:22if it would work, but this is wonderful thing, ambassador
00:26:25hood, you you answer to this, the
00:26:28prospect of this such resolution passing through and...
00:26:32standing through the veto power the US, do you think it would be able to stand
00:26:36that once it goes to the UN security council? yes or
00:26:40no, I think it would be very difficult for the United States government to oppose
00:26:43it and certainly I think China would be very much in favor of it,
00:26:47so uh and that's something we don't see very much these
00:26:51days. Thank you so very much, Mr.
00:26:55Ambassador Jood, former acting secretary of state for near Eastern
00:26:58affairs, it was plaving you on the show tonight, really appreciate that. you
00:27:02taking time out for today's episode of unfold, with that we come to the end
00:27:06of today's episode of unfold, till the next one, take good care
00:27:09ourselves,
00:29:32To the
00:29:32world!
00:30:10You're watching Pakistan TV, this is Muhammad Abdullah Dar, let's see the top
00:30:13stories.
00:30:33At least 12 people have been killed and 309 others
00:30:36wounded in attack on king Khalid international airport in
00:30:40Riyadh.
00:30:45Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharief strongly condemns the hoothi militia's
00:30:49attack on King Khalid International Airport in Riyadh
00:30:52calling it serious threat to regional peace and
00:30:55stability.
00:30:59He was.