Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00to draw, nobody want, neither side
00:00:03of really wants to
00:00:04of re-engage militarily, so it has
00:00:08of of evolved into economic conflict. as society, we
00:00:12do stud a chance when it comes to platform accountability
00:00:15of and specifically protecting our children online. the innocent people of
00:00:18Afghanistan are the biggest victim of this application, they do not
00:00:22exist. let's be very frank, they do not exist in their mind, they do
00:00:26not exist in their policies.
00:00:41in of
00:00:41in of Pakistan's uh geography is very strategic, very important,
00:00:45it connects multiple regions. We are a higher platform,
00:00:49a higher pedestal. This new
00:00:52of phase in
00:00:52of which we are now
00:00:53in a mutual defense agreement brings together two
00:00:57of of the Muslim world's strongest military. and military
00:01:00capabilities which are Pakistan and
00:01:03of Turkey of of Gaza situation is even more
00:01:06of perturbing and
00:01:08in it doesn't seem that I mean the the
00:01:10of current sort of Israeli actions there, I
00:01:14of of mean they are not willing to relinquish sort
00:01:16of the territory that they have occupied, if President Trump is able to
00:01:20get this kind of this disarmament to take place in in in
00:01:24Gaza, this would be huge victory for him, but it's
00:01:28a matter of bringing bringing the... israel is particularly to the
00:01:32table who's already rejected this kind of us back road map. the fact that the
00:01:36Israeli military and
00:01:38of a government and militia and illegal settlers are kind of
00:01:41collaborating to take away these lands and occupy them
00:01:45and settle them with Israelis. these deployments are very
00:01:48demanding both on the equipment and on the crew.
00:01:52in there are
00:01:53of roughly 4,800 personnel aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln
00:01:57if you include the ship's crew and the air wing. um and they
00:02:01have been at sea now for uh nine months continuously. Iran
00:02:05tends to play the game,
00:02:07but we say they continue the dance. The United States wants Iran to come
00:02:10of to the table and they're making concessions to get Iran to come to the
00:02:13of table of and Iran's making demands for additional
00:02:16a concessions to get to the
00:02:19a table.
00:02:30I happen to be Shahzad Istan Khan and with me I'm really lucky I've been joined by my
00:02:33wonderful colleague happens to be Miss Isha Rahan there are couple of stories
00:02:37that I brought and then there are couple of stories which Isha
00:02:40me brought of we have done on some research projects since
00:02:44the 80 then
00:02:46of in 2010
00:02:49of 2012 onward to a big Pakistan death
00:03:04is so crucial to us because they have tremendous
00:03:07programs, tremendous understanding of how to make
00:03:10a difference in these particular areas with newborns
00:03:14and maternity
00:03:46of
00:03:56of a
00:04:06Hello of of and welcome to unfold, I am Javami, in the first segment we are going
00:04:10to try to
00:04:12a understand the European Union policy towards as well, amid the
00:04:15atrocities and the
00:04:16of brutalities which has been perpetated by Israel's regime and its illegal
00:04:20occupation forces in Gaza in particular.
00:04:24In the second segment we are going to understand regarding the
00:04:28situation uh Generally over there in the middle
00:04:31of east when it comes to the US Iran
00:04:33of conflict, of there is a hint by US President Donald Trump of
00:04:36halting
00:04:37of the direct strikes against Iran until after the
00:04:41midterm elections in
00:04:43of November, also when we talk about the increase and attacks
00:04:47by Houti against Saudi
00:04:49of Arabia and also the commitment
00:04:52of the regional defense packed countries including Turkey and
00:04:56of Pakistan for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and the overall security. the
00:05:00kingdom of Saudi Arabia, we are going to take the
00:05:04understanding regarding as to what is unfolding at the moment
00:05:07of in the middle east generally on those particular fronts in the second
00:05:11segment of today. is show. Let's begin with the
00:05:15first one, when we specifically talk about the European
00:05:18Union, we know for fact that it claims to be the champion of
00:05:22human rights, the international law and the
00:05:25democratic values, but when we specifically
00:05:29talk about the European Union's collective policy
00:05:32towards Israel, especially after the kind of
00:05:36situation that is unfolded since 8th of October
00:05:392023, the relentless bombardment as result of
00:05:43which more than 75000 innocent Palestinians have
00:05:46lost their lives in Gaza alone
00:05:49at the same time there is case the
00:05:53rapidly expanding illegal settlements in the west bank
00:05:56also there there are
00:05:59certain questions that are being raised when it comes
00:06:03to the collective policy the European Union
00:06:07towards Israel with these policies also we
00:06:10know for there is a survey. vote that talks about how many
00:06:14percentage of people when it comes to the two
00:06:18major European countries, including Germany and Italy, there is a
00:06:21considerable percentage the people that
00:06:25are talking against Israel, they've got the
00:06:28negative opinion about Israeli policies in
00:06:32the occupied Palestinian territories, at the same
00:06:36time we've also seen that
00:06:40more than former official. from the European
00:06:43Union, including the diplomats, they have accused
00:06:47Germany and Italy of blocking the meaningful
00:06:50action against Israel. on the other side we see there are
00:06:54certain moves that are made by Britain, France as well as
00:06:58Canada when it comes to putting the restrictions regarding the trade
00:07:02related to illegal settlements in as
00:07:06well. so do we understand that there
00:07:09is lack of unanimity and unity among? the
00:07:12European Union countries when it comes to its policy
00:07:16towards Israel and Israely high-handedness,
00:07:20its bombardment against the innocent
00:07:24people in Gaza, the kind of damage and destruction that has been
00:07:28accured as result of that, also we know for fact there is
00:07:31died humanitarian crisis that is unfolding
00:07:35in Gaza's enclave also will try to
00:07:39understand or is this the evidence of
00:07:42diminishing European Union
00:07:45influence all across because of its double
00:07:49standards or these the double standards will try to understand it
00:07:53from Miss Helga Zeplarush, she is the
00:07:56founder of Shilla Institute, Miss Larush, thank you very much for being
00:08:00with us on the show tonight, really appreciate that. Also we are
00:08:04honored to being joined by Miss Sarakira, she is expert international
00:08:07relations, founder of European North African Center for
00:08:11Research Sarah. Thank you very much for your time also for being with us
00:08:14on the show tonight, really appreciate that. Let's begin the discussion with
00:08:18you, Miss Larush, could you give us an understanding? Do
00:08:22we understand that Europe generally
00:08:26remains divided at this point in time as we speak, there are
00:08:30more than 500 officials from the European Union, former
00:08:33officials, including the diplomats that have accused Germany and
00:08:37Italy or blocking the meaningful action when it comes to Israely
00:08:41policies in Gaza. On the other hand, we we've seen
00:08:45some moves happening on the part of Britain, France as
00:08:48well as Canada when it comes to the trade related to illegal
00:08:52settlements, do we understand the Europe remains divided at this moment and
00:08:56what are the core reasons for that division
00:09:00among the European Union members?
00:09:03well, I think so far, the only government of
00:09:07Europe which has taken a a courageous stand given the
00:09:11environment, supporting the Palestinians is
00:09:15the Spanish government of Sanchez,
00:09:19so I have said that they have uphold the honor of Europe, because
00:09:23otherwise it is only opposition groups in the different countries
00:09:26who have come out for the rights the
00:09:29Palestinians. I think the reasons
00:09:33are, manyfold and complicated. I think one big
00:09:37factor for sure to explain
00:09:41the the discrepan. between what the people the countries
00:09:44want and what the governments are actually doing, if you
00:09:48have to look at the United States, because the United States,
00:09:52obviously, especially with the present Trump administration, is
00:09:56closely allied with
00:09:59Israel, and therefore the influence the Atlantics
00:10:02in the European governments is one big
00:10:06cause, it is just politically opportune,
00:10:10to to be on the side of Israel, Uh, the defense
00:10:14of Israel, no matter what they do, is being regarded
00:10:18as the defense the rules based order, even nobody
00:10:22believes that that rules-based order ever existed. but for sure not now
00:10:26anymore, so I think it is in large
00:10:29part the effort by some these
00:10:33governments to uphold some order which no longer
00:10:37exists and they care not at all about what
00:10:41happens to the Palestinians, it's more about like if you look at the
00:10:45reaction to the peace Nobel Prize being given to the
00:10:49South African jurist Mrs. Peil, the
00:10:52European Union. it, but for
00:10:56sure they only appl to her record of defender of
00:11:00human rights, but they do not necessarily include in that the
00:11:04ruling the ICC, which named
00:11:08Netanyahu and and some other Israeli officials as
00:11:11war criminals and and and like, so I think it's
00:11:15a, I think it's a very double
00:11:18faced reaction coming from the Europeans
00:11:21okay, Mr. Larus, please stay with us. come
00:11:25back
00:11:25to you for your understanding, i just want to expand this discussion with you
00:11:29a number of aspects related to this very
00:11:33pressing issue. sara, coming to you, when when we specifically talk
00:11:36about the pattern the European countries in
00:11:40particular regard to the upholding human
00:11:44rights, international law and the democratic
00:11:46norms, there are presidents, historic
00:11:50precedence when we talk about how Europe generally
00:11:54reacts to... an approach and strategy of this
00:11:57sort, if that happens, why in your
00:12:01understanding Israel gets different sort of a treatment,
00:12:05despite its atrocities, it has been perpetating
00:12:08in Gaza, the expansion of illegal settlements over there in the
00:12:12occupied west bank, also we also know for fact there is an
00:12:16advisory opinion on the part the international court of justice for
00:12:20moment, keeping ICC
00:12:22aside, Okay, okay, thank
00:12:25you for the question and lot of answers, lot of aspects
00:12:29to tackle this question. Well,
00:12:33let's go back to the European stance on the Israeli
00:12:37practices, actually the Israeli practicing practices
00:12:41in on on Gaza and now in the west bank, let's not
00:12:44forget the israely practices in the west bank now is
00:12:48actually jopradizing everything that the
00:12:51EU as as a block. has
00:12:55ever and always stood for, because the EU has always been
00:12:59seen as the human rights help in in in the
00:13:03center the world, well let tell you that there
00:13:07is also another part, another
00:13:10legal part that
00:13:14prohibits or maybe holds the EU from
00:13:18action against Israel, even though we know that the
00:13:22members have different stances in this... has lot of reasons
00:13:26because different EU members, European
00:13:29countries within the EU block have different
00:13:33strategic interests and trade interests with
00:13:36Israel, and as your honorable guest mentioned as
00:13:40well, and you in in your report that yes,
00:13:44we have EU members who have managed to take
00:13:47stances against Israel with their diplomatic weight,
00:13:51diplomatic power, economic power, because the EU doesn't
00:13:55like any these, what it really lacks is the
00:13:58unanimity, like you mentioned, but the
00:14:02popular or the public pressure
00:14:05a lot of EU members has has been
00:14:09translated into parliamentary scrutiny, and this is
00:14:12why we have seen a lot of
00:14:16movement, yes the EU has taken movement, but it
00:14:19lacks, it lacks the the the way of
00:14:23imposing the measures for. instance article
00:14:27two the association agreement between the EU as a
00:14:30block and Israel has been provoked in early
00:14:342025 and yes the EU as a
00:14:37block has agreed that Israel's praxis or
00:14:41Israel's settlement
00:14:44expansion is is put into question according to the human
00:14:48rights articles that they have agreed upon into the
00:14:51association so yes the EU wants to do something. and even
00:14:55though we do have the politics of historical
00:14:58responsibility within the case of Germany
00:15:02and within the EU institutions Germany alone is
00:15:05is is is capable of blocking
00:15:09any measures that might be
00:15:12translated into more consequence to
00:15:16somehow contain Israel's breaches,
00:15:20huge violations of human rights, which is
00:15:23jeapardizing, stances on human
00:15:26rights, actually Israel is putting
00:15:30every western country that has ever taken their
00:15:33back now into a very...
00:15:37crucial situation, like no one can ever
00:15:41talk about human rights now with all the Israeli practices, except of
00:15:45course for the US government, so how
00:15:49come we are facing this humanitarian
00:15:52crisis in Gaza and the west bank,
00:15:55and we don't see action from the EU, part
00:15:59is legal, and the other part is, of
00:16:02course, the EU is also in
00:16:06conflict. with the US and its power and its
00:16:10alliance with Israel and there is stands
00:16:13on defense strategies with the EU, so the
00:16:17EU now is actually a a position
00:16:20where it cannot do
00:16:24more than that against Israel for the lack of
00:16:28instruments, not the lack of weight of power, I'll
00:16:31come back to you, sir, you have
00:16:35touched upon very important points sir. come back to you, please stay with us. Miss Larush,
00:16:39when we try to compare the moves on the part
00:16:43the two, for for example when talk about in the case of
00:16:47Britain, France and Canada, move regarding putting
00:16:50restrictions on the trade which is related to
00:16:54illegal settlements, especially when we talk about the
00:16:58occupied West Bank, now do we understand that they
00:17:02do have a concern when it comes to the West Bank
00:17:05alone and what about? their understanding and
00:17:09approach towards what has been done by
00:17:13Israel in Gaza in particular over the last more than three
00:17:16years. Firstly that I want your comparison
00:17:20differentiate between their understanding and their concern when it comes to the what is
00:17:24going on in the west bank as compared to in Gaza. Also keeping
00:17:28in view this move, do you think both
00:17:31Germany and Italy which have been accused by more than
00:17:35500 former officials including the diplomats could
00:17:39be also coming up with any move of that
00:17:43sort and if not, what is exactly the
00:17:46stumbling block when it comes to the German internal politics
00:17:50and Italian internal politics, does
00:17:54this has it to deal anything
00:17:57with the internal politics or the larger national strategic
00:18:01interest towards as
00:18:03well? concerning the
00:18:07first of your questions, i think there
00:18:09is lot of shared,
00:18:13because the the behavior of
00:18:17Israel in the west bank was is
00:18:21about to repeat what they did in gaza, so
00:18:24maybe the three countries you mentioned want to keep up an
00:18:28appearance,
00:18:30that they uphold
00:18:33shadow of international human rights and international.
00:18:37law, I don't think it's very convincing,
00:18:40because the practically the entire international
00:18:44community has done very
00:18:47little, some even nothing at all, to
00:18:50stop something which correctly was called by the ICC,
00:18:54a genocide, and the the specific
00:18:58German situation naturally, I mean obviously
00:19:02Germany has the guilt of having
00:19:05committed the original. side,
00:19:08but that does not mean that you would give a green
00:19:12light to everything the Israeli government does when they are
00:19:16trying sort of echo what the Germans did to the
00:19:19Jews, so I think it's the whole thing is is
00:19:23completely, I think it discredits the
00:19:27European countries, including Canada for that
00:19:30matter, I think in the eyes the whole
00:19:34world, the behavior of Europe is a complete.
00:19:37shame and I know from many discussions with
00:19:41representatives of countries the global south that the
00:19:45reputation of Europe has suffered
00:19:48tremendously as result of all of this.
00:19:52Okay, so I mean, I'm curious to
00:19:55understand what takes generally the
00:19:58precedence, the popular public opinion
00:20:02as in this case, we know for fact there is a service that
00:20:05reports un favor. opinion of 75%
00:20:09in Italy and 73% in
00:20:12Germany, which the two takes precedence
00:20:16when it comes to chalking out such a
00:20:19policy, when it comes to specifically Germany and
00:20:23Italy, when there is such a considerable percentage that gives the the
00:20:27negative opinion a certain issue as compared to the
00:20:30strategic interest of that country with another one, well what you
00:20:34see in that particular incident ' which you can also
00:20:38see concerning different topics, these European
00:20:41governments, not so much Miloni, but the German
00:20:45government and the French and the British government, there
00:20:48support uh... polls are down to 10 to
00:20:5220% the support the voters, so the
00:20:56overwhelming majority of people do not approve what these
00:20:59governments do, however that does not at all have
00:21:03influence on the behavior the governments, it's sort of that they could not
00:21:07care less, and that shows you that is
00:21:11why, for example, right now you have in the streets of
00:21:15seven European countries, hundreds of thousands of
00:21:18people, especially young people, but also
00:21:22farmers, truckers and and and trade unionists, but
00:21:26especially young people have taken back to the streets
00:21:29and the issues are on the one side naturally the economic
00:21:33condition, the condition of education, but mixed in all of
00:21:37that is total disapprovement, disapproval
00:21:41over the treatment the palestinians and i think this is
00:21:44like
00:21:48a an absess, in the
00:21:51European political situation which
00:21:55something which can break out any moment a much
00:21:59more violent way with what we can see in france right
00:22:03now so people are talking about the
00:22:06repetition of 68 you but
00:22:10the content is this time much more moral it is not
00:22:13about sexual freedom or something else which
00:22:17the 68 movement was for, but
00:22:21it is on more fundamental issues that people have a sense
00:22:24that the governments are not respecting the will the
00:22:28people, and the issue on Palestine is is
00:22:32one very crucial element of that, but you have seen it in
00:22:36the last two years that the governments both in the United States and in
00:22:39Europe, have taken extremely repressive
00:22:43measures against the students which were demonstrating,
00:22:46accusing them of antisemitism, which... you now, I'm not
00:22:50excluding that here and there there may have been a case where somebody
00:22:54was anti-semitic, but in general it is not
00:22:57antisemitism if you oppose the policy the government
00:23:01of Israel and you defend the life the Palestinians for being
00:23:05slaughtered, so this argument of
00:23:08antisemitism, in my view, in my
00:23:12experience is being instrumentalized, to to
00:23:16basically
00:23:17you know keep control, because if you accuse Germans. of being
00:23:20anti-semitic, naturally, you have the entire
00:23:23historical guilt, and you can immediately squelch
00:23:27any kind of discression, but in reality it
00:23:30is instrument to suppress the the
00:23:34justified protest the people, especially young people and
00:23:37students against what Israel does against the
00:23:41Palestinians. I think it's a, I get your point,
00:23:45your point is well taken, Mr. Larus, Sarah, when we talk about
00:23:49these more than... 500 former European officials
00:23:53including the diplomats, I want your understanding, do
00:23:56we take it as a scathing censure when it comes to
00:24:00the general policies of Germany and Italy towards Israel
00:24:04after what it has done in the occupied Palestinian territories over the last many years
00:24:08is concerned also with the mounting public pressure with the
00:24:11percentages that I have already mentioned both in Germany and
00:24:15Italy, do you think it's going to mount ample
00:24:18pressure when it comes to formulating or chalking out new
00:24:22perhaps a new strategy towards Israel is concerned of both these
00:24:25countries or in the if that doesn't
00:24:29happen to be the case that's going to
00:24:33affect the ruling parties within both these countries
00:24:37in the electoral politics in the
00:24:39future. well actually pressure
00:24:43has been a critical
00:24:47factor in in in in the... recent
00:24:50events in relation to Gaza and Israel's
00:24:53praxis, especially
00:24:55in Europe. Okay, first Europe has always been
00:24:59geographically close to our region, that's one thing.
00:25:03Second, Europe itself has faced a lot
00:25:06of wars, humanitarian
00:25:09crisis, lot of European
00:25:13problems have been actually sorted
00:25:17out by self determination so... so there
00:25:20are we have now 15 EU member states that
00:25:24recognizes Palestine, well more
00:25:28pressure, more EU, I would say more EU pressure on
00:25:32Germany and Italy
00:25:36in the time being um would be tested, this is
00:25:40one thing, we will see if politics and human rights
00:25:43and every stands the EU as a
00:25:47block would now succeed to represent. itself on
00:25:51itself, it representing here the the
00:25:55German government and the Italian one.
00:25:58Okay, so I think more EU EU pressure.
00:26:03Okay, for the future of EU principles and
00:26:07values, and one huge principle and value the
00:26:11EU is human rights, so the EU as a
00:26:14unified block cannot agree on
00:26:18the imposing the right
00:26:21measures to hold Israel from its practices,
00:26:25okay, that's like of unanimity, the EU is not a
00:26:28unitary state, okay, we understand that we
00:26:32do really appreciate the, if we
00:26:36can say it, the unilateral movements from some European
00:26:40countries like Spain, France, recognizing Palestine for France
00:26:44as a huge step, we have seen it here in the in the region as
00:26:48a huge step we have got
00:26:49to Europe on our side in the Palestinian case,
00:26:53well maybe more EU pressure and
00:26:57maybe more reshaping the principles
00:27:01the EU, especially with the rise the
00:27:04right of the right movements and I get your point, Sarah, I
00:27:08get your point, I'll come back to you, Miss Larush would be specific to, you already referred to
00:27:12the policy of Spain, now Spain and Ireland have pushed for the review
00:27:16the EU as well association agreements, human rights
00:27:20obligations, do we understand it's going to considerably put a
00:27:24pressure when it comes to the preferential trade
00:27:26arrangements? yes, I
00:27:30think so, I think... that the Spanish
00:27:34position, as I already said, in my view, is the only
00:27:38one which uh upholds any standard of
00:27:41international law, and I think a lot will
00:27:45really depend on on the future
00:27:48mobilizations, like the 500 diplomats,
00:27:51and I think we we are a crisis, you
00:27:55know, I mean, I think what what contains
00:27:59this particular question of... Israel,
00:28:03Palestine, the genocide,
00:28:06it is taking place in the context that the entire
00:28:09international law is questioned, I mean, if the
00:28:13president the United States says he does not need international
00:28:17law, if you know the
00:28:19entire body
00:28:22of of law is not being uphold, you can make sanctions against the
00:28:25ICC for ruling on something which is absolutely
00:28:29in their duty and and obligation. rule, we are
00:28:33looking a lawless situation, and I think that
00:28:37is why I have been arguing for the last several
00:28:40years, that we urgently need a new international security
00:28:44architecture, because international law and the the
00:28:48order, as it emerged after the end the cold
00:28:52war, where there was an attempt to establish an
00:28:55unilateral dominance of certain
00:28:58countries that clearly is falling apart,
00:29:02if you look at the so-called middle east, southwest Asia, the
00:29:05entire security architecture, as it existed
00:29:09before the United States and Israel started the two
00:29:13wars against Iran is also disintegrating,
00:29:17so for the for southeast Asia there is an urgent need
00:29:20to have new security
00:29:22architecture,
00:30:05Hello and welcome, you're watching Pakistan TV, I
00:30:08am Ahmed Shah and these are the
00:30:09headlines,
00:30:25the president on the advice of Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif has imposed
00:30:28emergency in
00:30:30Khabar Pakhtunkhah under article 232 and 234 the constitution
00:30:33of Pakistan given the gravity the
00:30:36situation.
00:30:42governorkhah faisal karem kundi has said that the people
00:30:46welcome the province the presid presidential proclamation and desire peace, stability,
00:30:50progress and prosperity in the
00:30:51province.