Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00online conflict
00:00:01has been declared of an active war, active
00:00:04war, so we know
00:00:08this, what we don't
00:00:10of know is whether there's a way to
00:00:14solve the
00:00:15of problems,
00:00:17of and I again, do you want a kinetic
00:00:23of of solution, that is missiles, firing across lines, or do you want
00:00:26a diplomatic solution, and that's up to both.
00:00:30governments India
00:00:32and and Pakistan to lay aside and
00:00:35persistent historical enmities and suspicions
00:00:39if possible and certainly
00:00:42of I'm I'm not privy to any
00:00:46diplomatic overtures, I went on one track to
00:00:49assignment to um New
00:00:52Delhi um and both sides
00:00:57of at the lunch table that I was at. indian
00:01:00general um was was optimistic,
00:01:04but that
00:01:06of of never happened, um, obviously never happened,
00:01:10of so if there's a way to solve these
00:01:14issues without
00:01:15of more people being killed, that would be
00:01:18wonderful. um, how would you,
00:01:21i understand, yeah, but
00:01:25would you in, if you if you look back at history and in terms of you,
00:01:28of how things are when we look at the
00:01:30of landscape overall with Modi's India at this time, how would
00:01:34you rate
00:01:35of diplomatic success between Pakistan in India
00:01:38on such such a for example trading of evidence on such
00:01:42a you know sort of sitting across the table in terms of some
00:01:46kind of serious solution, how
00:01:48of would you rate it? because we've also
00:01:50of seen of what happened in the the war
00:01:53recently
00:01:55of between Pakistan and India in which of course we saw the role
00:01:58of the US president also, so so there is you know a certain
00:02:02background to what happened, so so what are your thoughts at this time of
00:02:06that kind of
00:02:06a diplomatic success of of that kind of
00:02:10of a diplomatic effort?
00:02:15one% uh at
00:02:19first, but then you bring
00:02:22of in the the um global powers, including the global south,
00:02:26including the western powers
00:02:28of and you start to make progress. um and the
00:02:31Vietnam settlement uh, years were
00:02:35spent debating the size
00:02:38of the table that diplomats would set sit at
00:02:41and how many people would be at that
00:02:43of table, so it's a slow
00:02:47painstaking process that requires
00:02:50patience uh, which
00:02:52you know maybe in two years we'll say it's a 30%
00:02:56chance, maybe in five years we'll say it's
00:02:58a 50% chance. "I'm not number one
00:03:02mathematician, but I
00:03:03of do know these things take time uh,
00:03:07and I would, I think the world would
00:03:10celebrate if India and Pakistan came
00:03:14to some sort of
00:03:30With us
00:03:31of joining Tarushi Aswani who is an
00:03:35independent journalist based in New Delhi,
00:03:37of India of joining us. Tarushi, you've been
00:03:41reporting from the ground since yesterday, what have you witnessed, how
00:03:45would you describe the atmosphere in Delhi at this time, as of
00:03:49course these protests continue, what are you
00:03:51witnessing? as somebody who's
00:03:55been on the ground for the last two days, I
00:03:58of have seen that I "a lot of protesters are being brutally
00:04:02detained, but that is not stopping their courage from protesting
00:04:06against the government, and apart from this, you also have to
00:04:10know that we are currently
00:04:13of facing
00:04:13of a crackdown of sorts in the heart of Delhi, so this place that we read about
00:04:17the jantar mantar enclave and
00:04:20of how it's situated in kanot place, which is like the heartbeat of
00:04:24Delhi, which has our Supreme Court of India, which also
00:04:28has the
00:04:29of president's house, the pr'. minister's house, the parliament of
00:04:32India,
00:04:41we also have with us Tania Bazai who's in human
00:04:45rights lawyer joining us. Tanya, in terms
00:04:48of the Delhi crackdown, is it is, is is in your
00:04:52opinion, quite frankly is peaceful descent being
00:04:56criminalized, of course thousands of people are reportedly being
00:05:00detained in Delhi, of course, as these reporters
00:05:04are wanting to demonstrate against the chief election
00:05:07commissioner and of course electoral revision, the CGP
00:05:11leaders, CGP leaders so detained upon arriving
00:05:14in the capital, is it is the response in your
00:05:18opinion proportionate and what is it reveal about the Modi
00:05:22government and of course their tolerance of peaceful
00:05:25protesting? see the
00:05:29if we go through the laws and constitution the
00:05:33India, they have given right to assemble and this give them
00:05:37protection to protest peacefully when it comes to article 19 subsection
00:05:40one and article 19 subsection section two, they have given them all the
00:05:44right to protest peacefully, and on
00:05:47the other hand, the Supreme Court has also emphasized that the protester
00:05:51doing protest are is the fundamental right of all the citizens
00:05:55and the unreasonable restrictions can lead to constitutional
00:05:59crisis, so if it come to the mass
00:06:02disfranchisement, they can also invoke the sections
00:06:06of section 21, 22, 23, 24
00:06:09the representation of people's act 19. 50, so
00:06:13they have all the sections, all the provisions, even the
00:06:16constitution the India has given them all the rights
00:06:20to do the peaceful protest, even the supreme court has the
00:06:24rulings that they can protest peacefully unless and until they don't breach
00:06:28the law, so I think that there is no criminality in
00:06:32all this process, if we go through the provisions of
00:06:36India and the constitution, they have given them all the right under article
00:06:39191 and 192 the constitution of India Yeah, how
00:06:43would you look at the practical sort of
00:06:47practicality these rights in terms of how are they practically being
00:06:50imposed, are they being imposed the way that the
00:06:53constitution sort of
00:06:55foresees? I think
00:06:58practically they they should be, I
00:07:02think more peaceful and has there are a lot of sanction already
00:07:06imposed on them, lot them are detained already, even
00:07:09the the the
00:07:11the the head of... 'the cockro janata party has been detained and even
00:07:15detention itself is a crime in law, you cannot detain
00:07:19someone for more than 24 hours and you have to produce them before the
00:07:22magistrate as soon as possible, so practically i think they are very
00:07:26influential, if you see the opposition leaders are also in their
00:07:29favor and the opposition leaders, according to article
00:07:3384 and 102 the constitution allow them to join them
00:07:37and promote their
00:07:47what are the processors demanding? Why has the revision of
00:07:51electoral roles become such major flash point
00:07:55when we look at the demonstrators calling for chief election
00:07:57commissioner Kumar to resign. Is it is it what is
00:08:01behind this this kind of protest that we are
00:08:05looking at?
00:08:08Essentially we have to look a lot of factors here because there was a st.
00:08:12done by an Indian newspaper on September 24, after
00:08:16which there was a wide spread protest across India demanding that
00:08:2013 crore votes which have been deleted be taken back
00:08:24and the election commission must take accountability for it,
00:08:27however
00:08:28what is coming to notice of protesters, citizens and opposition
00:08:32leaders is that there is no acknowledgement on the part of Gnyanesh
00:08:36Kumar who is the chief election commissioner of India and neither has there
00:08:39been any accountability on part of the BJP on
00:08:43part the Modi government that there is deletion of 13
00:08:47crore voters across India. What they are saying is is that
00:08:50procedures going on and these dissions happened.
00:08:54However, we must also understand that there is an
00:08:58overwhelming sentiment that these voters were deleted in fact, there
00:09:02is an allegation that these voters were deleted in fact to make Mr.
00:09:06Modi win in these states where the elections happened with
00:09:09deleted voters, for example Bihar where. the BJP has
00:09:13won in coalition and also in West Bengal where the BJP
00:09:17has won, so there are a lot of questions that the protesters are
00:09:20asking about how this is happening and India
00:09:24is one the largest democracies in the world, we
00:09:28have around 970 million registered
00:09:31voters, out these such a big deletion
00:09:35is
00:09:38tarushi, when you like you said India is one the largest
00:09:42democracy. in the world, but as you know we just spoke to Tanya
00:09:45Bazai also, and there are some constitutional freedoms that are
00:09:49granted to the citizens of India, in terms of
00:09:53detention, are they being followed, are they being
00:09:56you know in terms of are they being abused, are they being followed? when we look at the
00:10:00rules regarding detention, the time periods, as far
00:10:04as
00:10:04you know the leaders are concerned, the opposition parties are, those that are protesting from
00:10:08the opposition parties also, so so on the ground what is
00:10:12situation with regard to those constitutional
00:10:15freedoms,
00:10:21so on the ground the sentiment is like about detention.
00:10:25I will give you very official figure which is 7000 protesters
00:10:29were detained yesterday, this includes former chief ministers, this
00:10:33includes lot of members the opposition party and also
00:10:36includes youth organizations, however many
00:10:40them were released, almost all them in fact were released late
00:10:43night yesterday and even early morning today Sunday on
00:10:47October 11, so regarding rules and regulations, the
00:10:51Indian Constitution has stipulated sections which talk about the
00:10:55freedom to protest, the freedom of expression and the freedom for peaceful
00:10:59assembly and expressing one in terms of writing in
00:11:02posters, using photographs, however these rights
00:11:06in section 19 the Indian constitution are
00:11:09being massively overlooked when it comes to these
00:11:12protests which actually point massive
00:11:15fingers at the modi government, and
00:11:19what is also come to notice is that while the Supreme Court
00:11:23of India has intervened, while they also said that internet must not
00:11:27be shut down in the Indian capital, while the Supreme Court also
00:11:31said that you must not use excessive sports while battling
00:11:34protesters, all of this was ignored by the Ministry of Home
00:11:38Affairs under Mr. Amit Shah, all these orders were
00:11:41ignored. I was reporting from the ground yesterday from
00:11:458 am till 8 pm in the night, we did not have internet the
00:11:49whole day and wherever we had internet it was very
00:11:52patchy, so the whole age area the
00:11:56capital, as I explain to you, the cannot place area where this is happening, it
00:12:00is the heartbeat of Delhi, you have the parliament of India there, you have the prime
00:12:03minister house, you have the president house, you have the
00:12:07Supreme Court of India situated there, imagine having no internet there for
00:12:1124 hours, how would people move around, and this would
00:12:15especially being done to
00:12:16you know nullify or zero five protesters, however
00:12:20protesters still gathered in massive numbers and in front of my eyes
00:12:24protesters were thrashed, they were beaten, they were dragged, their clothes were
00:12:27tone and the police was stuffing them into detention vans like one
00:12:31stuff cattle into vans, this is what was happening today as well as
00:12:35yesterday. right,
00:12:41it doesn't seem like those constitutional freedoms, those constitutional rights when
00:12:45you talk about detention are being upheld, when we look at
00:12:48what Tarushi is telling us about what's happening on the ground, but
00:12:52in terms the election commission's independ and accountability,
00:12:56these demon demonstrations demanding
00:13:00that the CEC of C
00:13:04Kumar's resignation, when we look at the opposition parties questioning the
00:13:07transparency the electoral role division, how do you look at
00:13:11this, because when an institution of course is responsible for ensuring free and fair
00:13:15elections, is and it's facing these kind of
00:13:19allegations of political bias, what legal
00:13:22mechanisms exist to... hold it
00:13:25accountable, does the current
00:13:28controversy weaken India's constitutional
00:13:32freedoms, institutional safeguards? what reforms in your
00:13:35opinion would help restore the public
00:13:39confidence at this time? if I talk
00:13:42according to legal perspective, they have very good legal
00:13:46framework that comes under article 32 and 226 the
00:13:50constitution that they can hold the commission accountable for transparency and
00:13:54fostering. the public engagement and on the other side, if you
00:13:58see the the this this entire battle is the
00:14:01transparency and fostering the public opinion and public
00:14:04engagement, so they have that article 32 and
00:14:08article 226, they can invoke any time, the protesters and
00:14:12voters, they can go before the high court, they can go for the the
00:14:16courts can go for the su moto cognisence, so
00:14:19they have all the legal you can say framework in front
00:14:23them and they can adopt them, they can invoke them. on the
00:14:27other hand, as you know that the India is also
00:14:31signatory to the ICCPR, article 21
00:14:35and 25, but after the invention intervention
00:14:38the United Nation or you can say the international
00:14:42convenient, even India, India
00:14:46just you can say said that we don't want any internal
00:14:50interference in our country, whereas it is already signatory to
00:14:53all the these, laws and they have to abide
00:14:56by, let me interject here, when we look at, you
00:15:00know, on the
00:15:01one hand, constitutional rights versus state
00:15:05restrictions, how would you look at the situation at
00:15:09this time? on the one hand, of course, like you are saying, there are all these
00:15:12statutes in place, there are all these constitutional
00:15:16provisions that and constitutional safegards,
00:15:20also legal safegards that you are talking about, but when we look at
00:15:23practically the situation. on ground, how do you
00:15:27look at things? let's talk about the practicality
00:15:31versus whatever checks are
00:15:34procedurally in place, because we are looking a state
00:15:37placing restrictions, we are looking a state that seems
00:15:41according to what Tarushi is saying
00:15:45that is ignoring what are frankly constitutional
00:15:49safegards. i think Modi government must
00:15:53engage constructively rather than dismissively. when it comes to
00:15:56reasonable restrictions, yes it is mentioned in article 19 subsection two
00:16:00the constitution, there are some reason restrictions when it comes
00:16:04freedom of speech, when it comes to right to assemble. but on the
00:16:08other hand, supreme court is very clear and the supreme court ruling is very
00:16:11clear that there are some reasonable restrictions, but that
00:16:15restrictions can become dis proportionate when
00:16:19they suppress lawful descent. if they are like protesting
00:16:22legally and peacefully then these provisions and
00:16:26these restrictions do not apply and they cannot impose these
00:16:30restrictions because they are suppressing lawful
00:16:32descents. fair enough, let me come back
00:16:36to you. see, when we look at the government's response, the
00:16:40Modi government, the authorities justified their handling the
00:16:44protests, they've you in terms of
00:16:48what they've said at this time, in terms of officials directly addressing
00:16:51protesters concerns, have they really
00:16:55addressed these concerns, have the response focused
00:16:58primarily on maintaining public order or or does the
00:17:02state look like it's in a mood to listen to what is
00:17:06being said on on such huge scale at this
00:17:09time the state is not ready to
00:17:13listen at all, even as i am speaking to you at the moment, there are
00:17:17protesters, men, women, children, elderly, they are all
00:17:21in connot place right now as we speaking, some them are
00:17:25climbing buses, some them are
00:17:26you know walking on the road, some them are demanding that the others be released to have been
00:17:30detained at three pm today, but what it seems like
00:17:34is that the Modi government is using the create
00:17:37machinery to very conveniently protect the chief election
00:17:41commissioner Mr. Kumar and it appears as though they are not in mood
00:17:45to comment or cater to any the demands the protesters have
00:17:49laid forward, while the protesters have always maintained,
00:17:53even back in July when we had mass protest here led by the Cookroad Janata
00:17:56party, protesters maintained that please
00:18:00understand that these protests are going to be peaceful, we are the
00:18:04believers of Gandhi and we want to have peaceful protests here.
00:18:07however, in my opinion, the government is ready to
00:18:11make the experience of protesting in India very humiliating
00:18:15activity, they want to humiliate protesters, journalists who are
00:18:19covering this to the extent that we do not feel
00:18:22like covering the protests ever again, because the way the police
00:18:26has been dealing with protesters is inhuman
00:18:30by the max, they have been detaining protesters, journalists and
00:18:34they are not releasing them even when people are showing them press cards,
00:18:38so that says a lot about where the orders are coming from, what the state
00:18:42orders are, and even currently when I am moving in Delhi at
00:18:46the moment, there is section called 163 in place
00:18:50which forbids the assembly of more than four people, so we
00:18:54are basically a state of undeclared emergency
00:18:58and rights of people are being trampled just because they are daring to question the
00:19:01Modi government, what happens next
00:19:05in your opinion, are the... testers preparing to continue
00:19:09these demonstrations, what is the government's response like you
00:19:12said, in terms of are they going to be continuing to
00:19:16confront, like you said they're even confronting and making things
00:19:20difficult for those that that want to cover these protests, you of course
00:19:24journalists like yourself, journalists who really have only one interest
00:19:28to tell what tell everyone
00:19:29you know what's exactly happening, tell it like it is, in your
00:19:33opinion is civil liberties, democratic accountability
00:19:37under Modi's leadership, how how is it
00:19:40taking, of course it's taking a blow, but what happens
00:19:44next in your
00:19:45opinion? so
00:19:49today also a protest was foiled, protesters were not allowed to move beyond the
00:19:53point in the central location where the protest was planned,
00:19:56however protesters are not backing down, they have one goal which
00:20:00is the resignation of Gnyanesh Kumar, and the
00:20:04other thing is that we also have a protest to... tomorrow in the
00:20:08morning led by Rahul Gandhi who is marching
00:20:11in the same area, is going to be marching tomorrow, so we are waiting to see what
00:20:15happens next, because frankly at this moment it is very
00:20:19difficult and unpredictable to tell what
00:20:21the next step is going
00:20:23to be, however one thing remains certain is that the protesters are not
00:20:27backing down, whether it's the corporate Janata party, whether it's normal
00:20:31citizens, whether it's people who are engaged in politics,
00:20:34youth activists or opposition leaders. chief ministers, former
00:20:38people who have been associated with the government, lot of IAS, Indian
00:20:42administrative service officers have also written to the Supreme Court of India
00:20:46asking for clarity about whatever has happened with the...
00:20:50role, so what we are seeing is basically
00:20:54pointing of fingers, opposing of questions
00:20:57and all this is unanimously
00:21:00questioning what the Modi government has been doing and planning to do in
00:21:04the last 12 years, why has it become so
00:21:08important for you know for for
00:21:12not to sort of lay off as far as this CAC,
00:21:16the chief election commissioner is concerned, why is it become such huge?
00:21:20deal for the current government in your
00:21:22opinion?
00:21:27i think what one must observe, i
00:21:30think people who watch India globally must understand that there is
00:21:34pattern that the government follows, so the pattern is to never accept
00:21:38its mistakes, so while we saw the resignation of
00:21:42education minister of india Dharmendra Pradhan's designation we saw in July
00:21:45itself when the protesters were all over Delhi again asking for his
00:21:50resignation because lot of exam government exam medical
00:21:54papers had been lead and that had led to the suicide of 25
00:21:57students who were under pressure of giving the reexams
00:22:01government's because failure to contain the confidentiality of exam
00:22:04papers, this man who is the CEC cannot be
00:22:08sacrificed this time, dharmendra Pradhan could have been
00:22:11sacrificed because it was about education, but what we are
00:22:15seeing is a man who has been alleged to have
00:22:19rigged election. which made the BJP win in two
00:22:22states, so the moment if and when Gnyanesh Kumar
00:22:26resigns, questions will now surface on Modi and
00:22:30all the elections, state elections he has won in the last 12 years, so I
00:22:33do not think that the Modi government is ready to face the floor when it comes to
00:22:37accountability over all the state elections we have
00:22:41had, like we just had elections in three states this year, we
00:22:45also have elections in two to three other states the next year, so what
00:22:49is com? is greater for them than what has gone by, so in
00:22:53order to hold to the power they have had since 12 years,
00:22:56they will not let gyanesh Kumar resign, because once he resigns
00:23:00he will also have to answer who are the people who
00:23:04you know, if he has actually rigged votes, who were the people who made him
00:23:08rig those votes, so that's like very complicated
00:23:11calculation we have right now, a quick
00:23:15question, tanya, when we look at detention of journalists for example, activists,
00:23:19politically... you know when what what
00:23:23Tarushi is saying, making it difficult for those journalists like
00:23:26herself who want to cover what's happening, you want to tell the
00:23:30world, you know, of course, what is happening at this time, what
00:23:34legal protections exist or should apply, when reporters
00:23:38document public protests, what remedies are available,
00:23:42if individuals are detained without adequate legal grounds,
00:23:45and what message lastly does this response send to the civil society?
00:23:50and ordinary citizens who want to challenge these this
00:23:54kind of inequality, this kind of injustice that is at
00:23:57play. illegal detention
00:24:01itself is unlawful and it's not allowed in law
00:24:04and for illegal detention you have to go before the high court in the
00:24:08rit of hebious corpus and you have to file a rit and you have to
00:24:12produce
00:24:13the the
00:24:16whosoever the protester or voter is you have. have
00:24:20to be appear before the court within 24 hours, so you cannot
00:24:24detain someone more than 24 hours, it
00:24:28illegal in Pakistan, even otherwise, and what I
00:24:32see that the journalists, they have freedom of speech, right to
00:24:35assemble, I told you under article 19 subsection one,
00:24:39and they have all the right, and Supreme Court of Pakistan is
00:24:43very, sorry, supreme court of India is very clear on this that
00:24:46the protest is the fundamental right and the un' able
00:24:50restrictions can lead to the constitutional crisis and you cannot
00:24:54stop them from protesting when it comes to peaceful
00:24:57protest, so illegal detention cannot go
00:25:01beyond 24 hours, you have to present that person before the
00:25:05magistrate within 24 hours. right, fair
00:25:09enough, thank you so much for being with us, thank you for updating us, tarushi, thank you for
00:25:12letting us know exactly what's happening, thank you for
00:25:16joining us, when we look at what's happening in India of course, under the Modi
00:25:20rule, things seem to be in shambles when we look at democracy,
00:25:24when we look at right to peaceful protest, when we look at accountability, when
00:25:28we look at the right to assembly, the government seems
00:25:32to be coming down on all those rights, a country that calls
00:25:36itself the greater democracy, greatest democracy in the world,
00:25:39seems to be flagrantly
00:25:43abusing all sorts of human rights, the right of
00:25:46journalists to cover the events, making it difficult l
00:25:50like Tarushi said even report what's happening on the
00:25:54ground, one certainly hopes that some sort of
00:25:58sanity will
00:28:22we saw earlier, the exchange rate has become considerably more stable, the
00:28:26external account has become more manageable, the interest rate on on
00:28:30treasury bonds or the yield in treasury bonds. is uh is going
00:28:34up for the first time in in
00:28:37Canadian history
00:28:39in regional countries and globally that America can be a friend, but if there
00:28:43is a choice between Israel and any particular country then America would always prefer
00:28:46Israel. the the atrocities or the crimes committed against the
00:28:50Palestinian people have started long before 2023.
00:28:54after the embarrassing debackle that India faced after
00:28:58Mark last year, this could help '
00:29:02you know attempt to repair the moral the armed
00:29:06forces, it has been clearly indicated from the Russian side
00:29:10that peace cannot be pushed forward, it can be
00:29:14softly and smoothly promoted, so it
00:29:18should be treated in very careful way. um, the
00:29:21economic, the clock for economic collapse and
00:29:25political collapse collapse, these are really two different class, by
00:29:29presenting my tribute and salute to the shodaya of Pakistan,
00:29:32considering the importance of today
00:29:35and and the sacrifices which they made for our beautiful country.
00:29:38Ukraine isn't not NATO member, but it's affects
00:29:42to the NATO and the European security. is the conflict, because I think under the
00:29:46current circumstances it's virtually impossible
00:29:50to end the Ukraine
00:29:52war.
00:30:22Good morning, assalamualaikum, you're watching Pakistan TV, with the news
00:30:26at this hour, Naim Farok Fayaz, let's begin with the
00:30:29headlines.
00:30:48a Pakistani resident has been killed and 11 others wounded in a fresh
00:30:52hoothi strike on Riyadh's international
00:30:54airport.