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00:01:07Hello and welcome to Crosstal where all things are considered. I'm
00:01:10of Peter Leveau. The longer the US-Israel war of aggression on
00:01:14Iran goes on, the fewer good options are available to
00:01:17end it. In fact, with every passing day, the war widens
00:01:21horizontally, while the American administration
00:01:24of continues to claim victory, it is being forcibly pushed out
00:01:28of the Middle East.
00:01:38To discuss the ongoing war, I'm joined by Muhammad Mirandi and
00:01:42of Toran, he is a professor at the University of Toran. Warm
00:01:46welcome back to the program, um, we've been
00:01:48of doing this for 15 years now and it's a pleasure to have you
00:01:51of just one-on-one for a change here, so I'm going to start um
00:01:55in quickly with uh the uh, I'm sure you saw some
00:01:58of the senate uh... clips
00:02:00of the senate hearing with uh the person that claims to be the uh
00:02:04secretary of war, Pete Heggseth, and I want to just start out very
00:02:07broadly um in
00:02:09in watching it, and he he was grilled, yes, but
00:02:12it was, but it was very partisan, democrats and all of
00:02:16that, which very, I don't get involved in the intermerial
00:02:20um struggles
00:02:21of the American political party, because it's basically a mono party when it
00:02:24comes to foreign policy, but I'm sure
00:02:30of in what it it didn't go a miss on your... part that there was no talk
00:02:31of the origins
00:02:32of the war against Iran, there
00:02:37of in was no - discussion of really the Israeli
00:02:38of involvement, and brought even more broadly, there was no discussion
00:02:42of the Israelization of American foreign policy in
00:02:45West Asia, those are the things you can't talk about in
00:02:49pleasant company in western media. Take it away,
00:02:52professor. Well, first of
00:02:55in all, it's a great honor being on your show always, and
00:02:59it's a... particularly great honor being with
00:03:03you for a one-on-one discussion, yes,
00:03:06you're right, and that is where the problem lies at the end
00:03:10of the day, the problem lies in those issues which cannot be
00:03:13discussed, whether in the senate or in the house
00:03:17or any committee or in mainstream media, no one is
00:03:21going to say that we haven't seen a single
00:03:24person in in senator say that we're carrying
00:03:28out an act of aggression, this war. was unprovoked, you don't see
00:03:32western media, anyone any
00:03:35of of the major pundits saying that we are we are killing children, we are an aggressor,
00:03:38we are destroying yet or attempting to destroy yet
00:03:42another country, that's not the
00:03:44a narrative, because American exceptionalism, george, sort of
00:03:48like
00:03:49of zionism, gives you special rights and privileges, so
00:03:53when you destroy a country, when I destroy a country, I'm
00:03:56not
00:03:57of guilty of war crimes, it's at most am...
00:04:00of staken policy, it was a,
00:04:02it was bad judgment when i killed a million people, but if
00:04:06you you know carry out
00:04:08assault on an old lady walking down the street,
00:04:12you go to jail, you can go to jail for life, but if they kill if they destroy
00:04:16an entire country, we didn't find
00:04:20a weapons of mass destruction, it was a mistake, yes, next time we should be more
00:04:24careful, that is the mentality, and so that's why
00:04:28the empire is going to collapse, because they cannot
00:04:31see or they are not willing to see the root
00:04:34of the problem and dragging the United States
00:04:38down to hell,
00:04:40in they they went
00:04:42of into Afghanistan, spent trillions of dollars, they went into Iraq, spent
00:04:45trillions of dollars, they destroyed Libya, they destroyed
00:04:48Syria, now they're going after Iran after they've
00:04:52lost so many trillions of dollars and they're on the decline, whereas the
00:04:56rest
00:04:56of the world, they're behaving like normal countries, china develop.
00:05:01Russia trying to develop countries, shanghai cooperation
00:05:04organization countries all trying to develop, whereas Americans
00:05:08are constantly waging war, well wealth isn't
00:05:11infinite. "now we're we're seeing
00:05:15when reality hits, so the
00:05:18Iranians, yeah, well, let's talk about that reality
00:05:21here, um, if you're if you consume western
00:05:24media, the United States has won this war,
00:05:28over and over and over again, apparently, but the the the
00:05:32the straight of horm is still under Iranian control,
00:05:36and with every passing night, and they talk about you, how horrible it's going
00:05:40to be for Iran, with every passing..." night and it seems to me the
00:05:44news that the western audiences are not getting is that there are fewer
00:05:48and fewer operational base American bases in the Persian
00:05:52Gulf, they're all being clustered now in
00:05:55Jordan, and sooner or later they're going to have to move to
00:05:59Israel, they don't talk about the facts on the ground except for
00:06:03the we we're winning, we have won, I mean
00:06:05how many times do is the United States and Israel going
00:06:09to lose this war?
00:06:14in in normal circumstances, when you
00:06:17go from Kuwait
00:06:20and then you go to Jordan
00:06:22and then you go to the Israeli regime, they would
00:06:26call that retreat, yeah, but
00:06:30in in the United States, that's that term does
00:06:33not exist, during, I mean, they should have learned from
00:06:37the 40 days of war, during the Ramadan war, as they say
00:06:41here, that the... can't defeat Iran, I mean they they murdered the
00:06:45leader, I was martered, senior commanders were
00:06:48martered, they they they
00:06:52hit day, I mean the combined force the United States and Israeli
00:06:55regime hit day and night, they achieved nothing,
00:06:59they they began with unconditional surrender, and then
00:07:03by the end the war they accepted the Iranian 10 point
00:07:07plan as the framework for negotiations, that didn't
00:07:10work, then they went and and siege on Iran saying we're
00:07:14going to bring them to their knees, senators went on tv saying they have no
00:07:18food, they're starving, you with pleasure, of course it was
00:07:21nonsense, mean
00:07:22there was inflation, there was difficulty, but not that sort of difficult, but they
00:07:26were taking pleasure in their you know in their imaginary
00:07:30victory, that didn't work, they had to sign ultimately an mou
00:07:34where everyone was saying was capitulation, but now they want to
00:07:38do it all over again, and we're seeing that the Iranians are actually hitting.
00:07:42harder, yep, and with greater
00:07:45precision, and addition to
00:07:48that, because the foolishness the Saudi regime by
00:07:52bombing Yemen's international airport, San international
00:07:56airport, the Yemenese are now involved in the war,
00:08:00and we're seeing the price of oil rising
00:08:04very rapidly, so this is this is
00:08:07obviously not going to lead to victory, and if Trump does carry out his threats,
00:08:11because he keeps saying his... going to demolish Iranian
00:08:14infrastructure, bridges and power plants,
00:08:18if he does that, the Iranians have said that they're going to take out the critical
00:08:21infrastructure of those regimes that are facilitating the war in the Persian
00:08:25Gulf, it is the month of July, and you and I
00:08:28know what that means in the Arabian peninsula, if the Iranians take out the
00:08:32critical infrastructure, everyone will
00:08:34have to leave, these countries will collapse, and that means a global economic
00:08:38depression worse than the 1930s and happened
00:08:42after that, you
00:08:45the the the terminology that we keep hearing from western politicians and
00:08:49echoed by the media, i was particularly interested
00:08:53in the following new term
00:08:56here, functionally defeated, what in the
00:09:00world is that supposed to mean, because mean you could that
00:09:04could be applied to the united states, if i if i can figure out
00:09:08what that really means, but Iran is been functionally defeated.
00:09:12but
00:09:13it is still um able
00:09:15to launch missiles and drones with amazing
00:09:19precision, a precision that has only gotten better as this
00:09:23conflict continues, so I mean where does this come from,
00:09:27functionally defeated? It's
00:09:31just like how they pick the movement of us
00:09:35assets away from the Persian Gulf to Jordan and then
00:09:39to Israel, it is probably uh...
00:09:42dancing
00:09:43wetswords,
00:09:50well you now um, you said a previous
00:09:54interview, which I
00:09:55i really uh thought it was interesting uh with uh, I think it
00:09:59was with Danny or with the judge, um, but you said the
00:10:03only option Iran has is to fight, can you explain more
00:10:06what that means? well, we tried everything
00:10:10else, there you go, I mean, 'uh we had an
00:10:14mou and then as I mean the Iranians knew that the United
00:10:17States would not abide by their commitments, I mean I don't recall ever
00:10:21speaking to anyone in Tehen during the past few weeks and after the
00:10:25mou, whereas people said, yes, they're going to
00:10:28do this or that, but from the very beginning the
00:10:31Americans did not force the Israeli regime to leave
00:10:34Lebanon or to stop the killing, they did
00:10:38not handover Iranian stolen assets,
00:10:42they continued to threaten Iranian leaders and Iranian
00:10:45people, violation the deal, they expanded the sanctions regime,
00:10:49another violation, they lifted the sanctions on Iranian oil,
00:10:53then then reversed it, after few days another violation and
00:10:57then they violated article 5 and by trying to
00:11:01create a corridor in the straight of hormones, whereas in article 5 it
00:11:05was clear that the Iranians would manage the straight of hormones and Iran would normalize
00:11:09it. Why did the Americans do this with the collaboration the Saudis and
00:11:13Amiratis and the Kuwaities who are their partners in war? They did it to
00:11:16undermine Iran's position in the state of hormole so that they can control the
00:11:20trade. Iran would have no leverage and then they
00:11:23would... win the war
00:11:26despite losing it on the battlefield and in siege warfare, and the Iranian
00:11:30said, no, we're not going to allow you to do that. so the Americans
00:11:34violated all their commitments, then they attacked Iran and reimposed the
00:11:38siege. so what else is Iran going to do?
00:11:41this and the debate that exists in Iran today
00:11:45is whether we should have even signed the mou. and some are saying we
00:11:49did the right thing, uh, we took that opportunity to quickly
00:11:53export tens of millions of barrels. of oil and import critical goods to prepare
00:11:57ourselves for today, others were saying no, we should have
00:12:00continued, both arguments have their own merit,
00:12:04think i don't think one side is completely correct or the other, but the point is that
00:12:08no one is saying let's do deal, let's do sease fire, let's
00:12:12no, that's that's just out the question, and
00:12:15ultimately whenever this comes to an end and it will come
00:12:19to an end at some point, we may be a global economic depression and the
00:12:23global economy will collapse or maybe something else, it's going to be worse, whatever it
00:12:26is, it could be horribly worse or just much worse
00:12:30or somewhat worse, but uh, but whatever
00:12:34happens at the end when when the Iranians and Americans come to some sort of
00:12:38agreement, the Iranian demands will be more than what we saw in the mou, it
00:12:42will it will include Yemen, it will include Gaza
00:12:46more explicitly, and the Iranians will want things up
00:12:49front, so the Americans are a loose lose
00:12:53situation, the smartest thing that... they could have done would was
00:12:56to just implement the mou and move
00:12:59on, but designs, designs
00:13:03lobby, the regime won't allow it, and trump's
00:13:06ego, if you add that to it, that makes it more than enough
00:13:09to wreck the global economy and the US economy and the world, you've
00:13:13we've often when as you guessed on this program, we've made the
00:13:17comparison, this conflict with the comparison in Ukraine, and you're
00:13:21absolutely right, the longer it goes on, the more the Americans are going. to
00:13:25lose, the longer the conflict goes on in Ukraine, the more they will lose, should
00:13:29take the deal and be honest up front and all sides can
00:13:33get past it, but again um uh what is it
00:13:37uh agreement incapable in the United States shows
00:13:40that all around the world and particularly when they come
00:13:44across a
00:13:46um uh power that can say no, russia says no,
00:13:49Iran says no, on that note, I'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break, and after
00:13:53that short break we'll continue our... on the ongoing war on Iran stay
00:13:57with
00:13:57RT.
00:14:25اسرائيل انتها
00:14:26كانته.
00:15:06With joy in my heart and determination in my mind i
00:15:10strike to keep the beautiful legacy of my father Samara
00:15:14Machel alive and relevant to Africa today. My dad
00:15:18was visionary leader who fought tirelessly and
00:15:21selflessly for the liberation of our people. in
00:15:25Mozambique and in Africa from colonialism. Dead's
00:15:28commitment to panafricanism taught us the strength of
00:15:32unity and collaboration across borders. Let us
00:15:36honor his memory. by continuing his fight
00:15:40for better Africa, a continent that strives
00:15:43for the renewed liberation, true independence
00:15:47and stands united for the betterment of all. This
00:15:51is our continent, the future is in our
00:15:54hands.
00:16:06Welcome back to Crosstal, we're. things are considered on Peter Level,
00:16:09to remind you, we're discussing the ongoing war on
00:16:11Iran.
00:16:21Okay, professor, just briefly,
00:16:22I don't want to spend lot of time on it, because I think I don't see
00:16:26the the value of so-called negotiations, considering
00:16:30what Americans call negotiations uh, before the 12-day
00:16:33war, before the Ramadan war, that means nothing to them, it is.
00:16:37just um - um it it's
00:16:41uh um deceiving um their interlocutor in this
00:16:45case of Iran, but there's been it's been um
00:16:48mentioned new 10 uh
00:16:51a 10-day ceasefire is there any creadence to that, I mean
00:16:55I i have find that hard to believe
00:16:58um um considering negotiating style if we can put it that way the
00:17:02United States and the Israelis any any value to a
00:17:0610-day ceasefire. No, no, the Iranians are not
00:17:10interested in cease fire at all, and the Iranians
00:17:13have said to the Pakistanis and
00:17:17the Omanis and the others were all seeking some sort
00:17:21of dialogue or some sort
00:17:25of movement towards an
00:17:29agreement. Yeah, the mediators have their own
00:17:32interests, we would have, exactly, exactly, and the
00:17:36Iranians have been. saying, look, go and talk with Americans, we're not the
00:17:40ones who destroyed the mou, we're not the
00:17:44ones who violated the mou, they did, so and the Iranians are not
00:17:48going to accept any cease fire, the Iranians are going to
00:17:52continue the war until the Americans
00:17:55are, the Trump regime is suffers
00:17:59enough where they come to the conclusion that this just can't
00:18:03continue, remember, and you, I know you remember this, I'm just just rhetorical,
00:18:07but when Trump signed the MOU and everyone was attacking
00:18:11him for basically capitulating to Iran, he
00:18:15said that, look, we're just four weeks away from
00:18:18emptying our reserves, do you want me to be a Herbert Hoover, do you want a great
00:18:22depression? so obviously uh, the United
00:18:26States is not in an ideal situation, Trump is
00:18:30not uh, he does not have endless uh
00:18:34reserves of of oil, and the Iranians no... that
00:18:38it may not be four weeks, it may be five weeks, it may be three weeks, it may
00:18:42be six weeks, but there is serious trouble lying ahead,
00:18:46and so the Iranians are not going to have sease fire now when they know that nothing will
00:18:50come of it, the Iranians want the united states
00:18:53to ultimately go back to the mou plus, in other words, they have
00:18:57implement the deal, but they have to add new things and that
00:19:00would include gaza and and yemen, the
00:19:04siege on yemen would have to be lifted and would have to give
00:19:08things up front, Iran is not going to like
00:19:11enter cease fire and then wait for the
00:19:14Americans to handover stolen assets, which it will never
00:19:18do. The problem uh is, and you know this
00:19:22better than I, and it's just like the Russian issue, the problem is is that the
00:19:26Americans engage in wishful thinking, remember how
00:19:30Russia was running out of of missiles and you had
00:19:34to open up all the washing machines and take...
00:19:38ships and all that, that's what they're now saying about Iran. Iran is
00:19:41running out of missiles and then Iran is firing missiles and drones day and night, but
00:19:45they say no, they're running out of missiles. It's all wishful
00:19:48thinking, and ultimately, as far as I
00:19:52know, you've run out of washing machines, but you have not run out
00:19:55of missiles in in in Russia, and the same is
00:19:59true in Iran, it's all about, it's all about narratives
00:20:03and the and holding down the price of oil through.
00:20:07manipulation, that's narrative, but ultimately when that
00:20:10shortage hits the market, people find
00:20:14out that there is not enough oil anymore, it's going to get very
00:20:18bad, and you know,
00:20:21Peter, actually, by manipulating the market and bringing
00:20:25down the price of oil, they're making it worse for themselves,
00:20:29because they are preventing demand
00:20:32destruction, they are making people continue to use up
00:20:36as much oil as they work, year ago, instead of trying to
00:20:39decrease consumption to manage the
00:20:43crisis, they're moving full steam ahead, and then when
00:20:46suddenly they're they're going to hit that shortage, it's going to be...
00:20:50worse than it would have been otherwise, yeah, but it's the same
00:20:54people that well they're just going to the bank every single day
00:20:57collecting uh their ill-gotten gains here, and they don't care
00:21:01if they cared about about their
00:21:05own people, speaking the Americans, they never would have sent them to
00:21:08war,
00:21:09and and people are beginning to realize that surely surely,
00:21:12but surely, but uh, indefinitely
00:21:15the the the commitment of
00:21:18this. in America is to enrich
00:21:21itself, there's no doubt about it, they keep doing it over and over again. I'm going
00:21:25to ask you very hard question right now, because
00:21:29we see uh what has happened uh through this conflict, the first
00:21:3340 days, then this fake mou, and then I don't, we're on day
00:21:3713 or or something like that the return of
00:21:40kinetic action, but uh, Iran is in the position
00:21:44to strike, strike, Jordan very hard,
00:21:48um, strike israel. very hard. I mean, we we know that the
00:21:52director of Bengarian Airport were saying, get these American planes out of
00:21:56here, because it's a huge target,
00:21:59easy target. Why doesn't Iran take the initiative
00:22:03and and push this, push the inevitable conclusion of this
00:22:07conflict to an end? Well, before I answer
00:22:11that, I Peter, I just want to point out that there's a
00:22:15famous statement that's attributed to Maria Antoinette, and it's
00:22:18not true, but... still famous and that was
00:22:22when we
00:22:23now people were in facing hunger and they said there's no
00:22:27bread, which she asked what's going on, they said there's no bread, the said, well, let them eat cake,
00:22:31again this, she didn't actually say this, historically speaking, but it's a
00:22:35famous quote, these people who don't care about the American people, these
00:22:39American leaders, or these elites, this epsine
00:22:42class, they shouldn't be so confident about
00:22:46their position, if things get very bad for the United States,
00:22:50"the American people are going to be very, very angry, and you
00:22:54know, Peter, and this is, I'm not a sociologist,
00:22:58I'm just speculating, a country that experienced poverty for
00:23:02decades, wherever, wherever in the world, a country that is poor, and it remains
00:23:06poor, people may be dissatisfied, but a country which
00:23:10when I was young, was rich country
00:23:13and moves downwards towards poverty, I
00:23:17think the anger in that sort of country is going." "the wrath the
00:23:20people will be something to be fearful of, but
00:23:24with regards to, well, on that point, muhammad, there the
00:23:28America is quite exceptional in the case that it
00:23:31has lot of guns, okay, I'm agreeing with you, of course, go
00:23:35ahead, continue, oh, absolutely,
00:23:39but um, I think actually we are moving in that direction,
00:23:43the Israeli regime is a more
00:23:46precarious situation today than it was all days ago." 13 days
00:23:50ago, why? because all those radar systems in the Persian
00:23:54Gulf, in northern Iraq, in Jordan, they're all
00:23:57destroyed, and those uh air defense systems, they're
00:24:01all designed basically for Israel, the Americans don't care about anyone else
00:24:05but the Israeli regime, they fight, you right now the Israelis
00:24:09are saying let the Americans fight for us, I mean we don't want to get involved,
00:24:13but base, but so which is the biggest insult possible to the
00:24:17American people, and in return what does what? the United States do,
00:24:20they merge the US armed forces with
00:24:24the the armed forces the Israeli regime, like
00:24:26uh, you know,
00:24:27the the obedience slaves that they are in the
00:24:29in the house and the senate, but ultimately when all
00:24:33these are destroyed, Iranian missiles and Iranian drones and
00:24:37particularly Iranian drones will have much easier time
00:24:41striking the regime. right now, Iran isn't no rush
00:24:45to strike Israel because the elections in the
00:24:49the in Israeli regime. because the internal crisis that
00:24:52exists there, the the hostility among the different factions in the
00:24:56regime is very high and in in the Hebrew
00:24:59press when you look at it, i look see it
00:25:02sometimes through conflicts forum they do good
00:25:05translations, they even talk about civil war, so
00:25:09when your enemy is busy att you
00:25:13destroying itself, the the Iranians will say, let's see
00:25:17how this plays out, professor, one last question is
00:25:21we're unfortunately rapidly running out of time, um, our mutual friend
00:25:25Max Blumethall, you saw him during his visit during the funeral
00:25:29procession, he spoke to people, and some the responses he got is
00:25:33that there is new Islamic revolution
00:25:37occurring, how would you reflect upon that? I mean, is it very nationalistic, how
00:25:41much religiosity is part of that, but
00:25:44new or reinvigorated revolution, how would you reflect
00:25:48upon that? I would agree, I i and I don't
00:25:52think that in Iran nationalism and religion are
00:25:56separate, there they're very much mixed, it's it's
00:26:00one identity, they come together.
00:26:06Islam supporting the oppressed, fighting, standing up against the
00:26:10oppressor is is very important, if anyone
00:26:13reads um Alicer
00:26:16Crooks book resistance, they get a good idea
00:26:19or going to Tehran by
00:26:22the Flint and Hillary Leverent, I think they get better
00:26:26understanding of that, this sense of resilience and resistance
00:26:30is very powerful among. and what after what the United States
00:26:34did, it has grown much stronger, and the Iranians, many
00:26:37Iranians, were worried about what would happen if
00:26:41war was a war of aggression would start, they
00:26:44found out that actually we are much stronger than
00:26:48you, than they had imagined, and so this resilience, this
00:26:52sense of pride has been enhanced, and of course it's a country which is founded
00:26:55upon thousands of years of civilization, the
00:26:59americans have made it catastrophic, mean trump has made it. profit
00:27:02mistake: yeah, and and and and he's good, he's paying the
00:27:06price right now. what we we we really need to wait for
00:27:10is um uh if the US-Israel relationship will change, but
00:27:14as you pointed out um merging the two
00:27:18um militaries and intelligence, that doesn't give anyone any
00:27:22hope because it'll give Israel the front uh the
00:27:25front seat, it'll be the driver of American foreign policy, that's the
00:27:29last thing the American people need, but your... "you're absolutely
00:27:33right, um, you mentioned Americans
00:27:37being uh angry about lower standard of living, that it
00:27:41would be, it was going on even before this, now this will be
00:27:44compounded, and and given the media space
00:27:48alternative space, it's you, it's very easy
00:27:52to find out why, it's,
00:27:53you know, what we talked about 15 years ago was the forbodent in
00:27:57western media, now on the edges people are hearing this, and
00:28:01that's why we have to..." continue our dialogue that started so long
00:28:05ago, which of course will continue into the future. we
00:28:09very here at Crosstal, we very, very much appreciate you as
00:28:12guest, particularly this time as a one-on-one, so I want to thank you, and
00:28:16of course I want to thank our viewers for watching us here at RT, see you next
00:28:20time, and remember Crosstal
00:28:22Rules.
00:28:37"the deep state has its hands in everything. was in the middle
00:28:41of it for decades. when i blew the whistle on CIA
00:28:44torture, the deep state turned on me. they ruined
00:28:48my life, took away my rights, threw me in
00:28:51prison, but they didn't break
00:28:54me. fought back
00:28:58and i still do. i'm John Kiriaku on my
00:29:01show, the..." State, I take you behind the geopolitical moves, the color
00:29:05revolutions, behind the politics and the
00:29:08politicians. We shine a light on where the deep state is
00:29:11hiding.
00:29:18Ban territories, let's go,
00:29:22crimeia here in Iran. We've traveled
00:29:25to lugansk, and it's happening right here in China.
00:29:29It's actually quite a beautiful day here.
00:29:33ignored stories, i'm listening, thank you so
00:29:37much, so much, really, god bless you, thanks for having me at such beautiful location,
00:29:40forbidden questions, i'm asking them, what's a free country? are
00:29:44you worried, are you scared? are you dictator? there's a
00:29:48buzz out there that you would make a great next president the united
00:29:52states. we will show you what they
00:29:54won't.
00:29:56yay, you
00:29:59okay? more people watch RT. in the United
00:30:03States and see, I did not know that, that's the Sanchez
00:30:06effect, tens of millions are now watching and we're just
00:30:10getting
00:30:11started.
00:30:22This is regular hospital here in Dunes, there isn't a single
00:30:26military uh facility in the
00:30:29area, this is right in the center of... the
00:30:33city. Ukraine strikes a hospital in the Donietsk People's
00:30:37Republic, killing one woman and wounding two other people. Local
00:30:41authorities say that the drone used in the attack was of western
00:30:44origin. There are documented cases of
00:30:48western weapons supplied to Kieve, ending up in the hands of militants in Africa
00:30:52as well as in Latin America and the Middle East. Russia's envoy to the
00:30:55United Nations says the West is using Kiev to wage a
00:30:59proxy.