Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01most sites know you by your name sky.gr. login
00:00:05and discover information that really
00:00:08concerns you. the information you need
00:00:11and the news you want to know.
00:00:15here begins the next day of
00:00:17information.
00:00:20sky.gr.
00:00:23information.
00:00:35Good morning with Thei Mavragani every
00:00:39Saturday and Sunday at 5:30 in the morning on
00:00:42Sky.
00:00:46One year of cookout and we continue.
00:00:49Coocout.gr. You're hungry, we have
00:01:45υπάρξει συμφωνία τι σκέφτεται ο πρόεδρος. Φάνη
00:01:57you will finally
00:02:15We're back and we're not alone in the studio.
00:02:19Here Vangelis Liakogonas, Eleni Anesiadou, to see the
00:02:22rest of the news from the country. Vangelis, let's start, which of course are not pleasant. We
00:02:26will take an unpleasant, I will say,
00:02:30Egaleo, where the Greek police found a circuit that was
00:02:33making, let's see the relevant images
00:02:36forging passports, issuing supposedly
00:02:39validated visas,
00:02:43was located and what did this
00:02:46circuit essentially do? It brought illegal immigrants from Iraq and
00:02:50Τουρκία στην Ευρώπη, μιλάμε για 8.00€ για κάθε
00:02:53person, to make a profit, exactly, and a
00:02:57state-of-the-art
00:03:01state-of-the-art forgery, we're talking about
00:03:04machines required, we're talking about high-tech
00:03:07scanners, they had set up a
00:03:11see the findings here a lot of money, around
00:03:14900€ να πούμε ενδεικτικά για κάθε έγγραφο έτσι και 8.00€ για
00:03:18let's go to Zefyri since we are staying in the
00:03:22Western suburbs, and this is connected, it is rather connected, in continuation
00:03:25unfortunately, of the issue we saw
00:03:29two-year-old with over 7
00:03:33that, as you were saying before, end up with young people and
00:03:36not only. This person was 29
00:03:39years old. We see here what the
00:03:42police found in his house, in his residence, and we are talking about
00:03:46very large quantities, we are talking about even drugs,
00:03:506.6 kg specifically, of unknown exact origin,
00:03:53meaning it could have been a mixture of drugs. This is another
00:03:56case, very
00:04:00unpleasant, another success, of course, of the
00:04:03specific Greek police. We see here
00:04:06precision scales, many kilos of drugs, mainly heroin and cocaine.
00:04:10Indeed, Eleni, let's also look at news
00:04:14from the region, so let's go to Lamia, where a serious incident
00:04:18happened in the early hours of Saturday in Lamia when, under unclear
00:04:21circumstances, two vehicles collided, we see one
00:04:24literally overturned, this is the relevant image, fortunately
00:04:28no one died. A driver, a 21-year-old
00:04:32driver was transferred to the general hospital of Lamia, where he is currently
00:04:35there and the preliminary investigation has been undertaken by the
00:04:39traffic police of Lamia and now let's go, I will change the atmosphere for you, I will
00:04:43show you nicer images and let's go then to Rhodes
00:04:46slowly, where a cinematic air evacuation
00:04:50took place, which was 100 nautical miles
00:04:54southeast of Rhodes, we also see relevant images from the
00:04:57air force, super job then by the air force. It arrived at the
00:05:01spot, safely transferred both the patient and
00:05:04the patient's partner
00:05:07and was transferred to the general hospital of Rhodes where
00:05:11he is currently.
00:05:19they
00:05:22can do it in the middle of the sea and in very bad weather conditions,
00:05:25indeed. So let's go to Crete because Crete
00:05:29dressed in white. This particular image is from the
00:05:33historic chapel of the Holy Cross which yes, yes, yes, is located at
00:05:36an altitude of 235
00:05:39meters, so just seeing it now. 100 days until
00:05:43days it is, but the temperature right now
00:05:47is 14 to 16 degrees in Psiloritis,
00:05:50so I don't think we'll have these images for much longer, however,
00:05:53impressive images and of course it's also the footprint of the recent bad weather in
00:05:57Crete and it's this amazing chapel where every year the
00:06:00cross forms stalactites with the power of wind and
00:06:04snow, an amazing chapel, the Holy Cross, and finally,
00:06:08let's go, George, to your parts, let's go Cyclades and let's go to
00:06:10Naxos because...
00:06:12The Portara of Naxos, yes, the Portara of Naxos, excuse me,
00:06:16was painted pink
00:06:20there's the Naxos Run for the Cure 2026,
00:06:23a very important initiative
00:06:26this specific,
00:06:30iconic landmark in Naxos was painted pink. So today
00:06:33the event started at 10 o'clock,
00:06:43let's go there, good morning Michalis, good morning Mina, good morning
00:06:47George from the port of Volos, where in the early hours we had a
00:06:51truly shocking incident when a group of
00:06:5421 people attacked
00:06:58Mina, a group of 10
00:07:01who were in a taxi here in the land area of the
00:07:05port of Volos. They beat them up and they have been taken to the
00:07:08hospital for first aid. Their health condition is not particularly good.
00:07:13In any case, the incident was shocking. According to what we have
00:07:16learned so far, the group of 10 which
00:07:19mobilized the taxi to exactly this spot where the two
00:07:23people from Skopelos were, who were coming here to the port in order
00:07:26to leave for the island, had
00:07:29quarrelled with the two people in the nightclub where they were.
00:07:33So there had been a dispute between the
00:07:36involved parties. After the dispute in the bar,
00:07:39the two people then left the scene. The
00:07:4310 perpetrators, and when they arrived here, they then
00:07:46took the people out of the taxi in the presence of the driver and not
00:07:49only that, they beat them severely.
00:07:52As for the investigations, they have been undertaken by the port authority because as you understand
00:07:56we are in an area under the supervision of the port authority, surveillance
00:07:59by the port authority. These are 10 people who for now remain
00:08:03unidentified. They are trying to identify them based
00:08:06on
00:08:08that. Now they won't find them. There are a lot of cameras
00:08:11there.
00:08:14In any case, an event that has caused concern and the first impression
00:08:17I always repeat is that there had been an incident in a
00:08:21nightclub they were in. It's unknown what the
00:08:24cause was. Afterwards, when the two people from Skopelos left, the
00:08:2810 followed them here to the port, they took them out of the taxi they were in and
00:08:31beat them quite severely, so much so that they had to be taken to the
00:08:35Volos hospital for first aid. Investigations are in full
00:08:38swing to locate the individuals. Thank you very much, Michalis, thank you.
00:08:57and his wife and the other nine, he is our accountant, the control room tells us,
00:09:00and Philippos Kampouris is giving his testimony right now. It seems he will testify
00:09:04last. First everyone else will testify and he
00:09:07who is the central figure in the case will testify last. So let's go
00:09:11to Lefteris. who has a report and the lawyers have also made statements, come on
00:09:14Lefteris,
00:09:18at this moment, as you very correctly said, the investigative
00:09:22process has begun with the testimony of one of the
00:09:25two accountants, so we expect to have
00:09:28developments in a very short time and as you very correctly said
00:09:32before, that Philippos Kampouris will be the last one to take the stand
00:09:36to testify, all his other co-defendants will have
00:09:39preceded him, starting with the
00:09:42accountants. A little while ago we spoke with
00:09:45the lawyers of both the accountants and
00:09:49Philippos Kampouris and his wife.
00:09:53The lawyer of the accountants told us
00:09:56that his clients
00:09:59followed to the letter what their employers, their partners
00:10:03told them and did what
00:10:06the law stipulated. Can we
00:10:09hear them, Lefteris?
00:10:13Yes, yes, of course, of course, let's go, what I have to tell
00:10:17you is what we said from the first moment that we are talking about some
00:10:20company debts to the
00:10:23insurance bodies in EFKA and some debts to the
00:10:26state, there are some
00:10:30companies which some of them had
00:10:33activities,
00:10:36when these companies closed the staff, due to a
00:10:39accounting error,
00:10:42remained in these companies which were creditors and
00:10:46were not operating, which is why this large amount was owed to
00:10:49the insurance body, the actual amount
00:10:53owed by these companies in which Mr. Kampouris participated in some
00:10:57way, which we will refer to during the
00:11:01appeal stage, does not exceed 250,000 euros. We are
00:11:05not talking about fraud therefore, we are talking about
00:11:07debts which were created by
00:11:10business activity, which at some point the
00:11:14responsible parties or the responsible party will have to be called
00:11:17either to settle them, either through an out-of-court settlement, or in any
00:11:21case to pay these amounts. Look. we have
00:11:25also submitted all the supporting evidence. which
00:11:28of course clearly proves that these people acted legally, always
00:11:32following instructions and that essentially their role in this particular
00:11:36case is purely administrative. In no
00:11:39case have they violated the law, in no case have
00:11:42they altered data, meaning they have no involvement,
00:11:46we are not discussing it, in any criminal organization and of course it is
00:11:49we cannot talk about
00:11:52fraud against the Greek state, when I receive ready-made installations
00:11:56and I upload them either to EFKA or to the tax office or
00:11:59to the competent authorities. Beyond that, the auditing mechanisms belong to the
00:12:02state. I upload what my client sends, I don't do anything
00:12:06different because if they didn't upload what they received,
00:12:09then of course they would be accused of other offenses by their client.
00:12:12Yes. Now, what Mr.
00:12:15Litras said and what the defense lawyer for the accountants said
00:12:19opens up a lot of discussion, right? Yes, the financial police estimated the fraud at 1.5 million
00:12:23euros, of course, against the state.
00:12:26So we understood from what we heard what the
00:12:29accused in the case will say to the investigator, more or less, both
00:12:33Philippos Kampouris and the accountants. Here we have
00:12:36also secured what the what the frontman
00:12:39of the case, the so-called frontman, the
00:12:42person who had many companies
00:12:45"kolotoumpas" (a derogatory term meaning flip-flopper), an exclusive report that we have secured and we saw him
00:12:49next to him in his shows and in his shows, I think.
00:12:53Of course, and in fact, the police have taken very seriously
00:12:56into account and have gathered evidence from these shows as well. Let's see here
00:13:00exclusively what the so-called
00:13:03"kolotoumpas" claimed. I met Philippos Kampouris
00:13:06on one of his shows where I went as a guest, initially in
00:13:092007-2008 approximately, and then we met again on one of
00:13:13his shows in 2010. From approximately 2009 until
00:13:162013 I was homeless and lived on the street. Then in
00:13:202014 Philippos contacted me and told me to come
00:13:23to his office to talk. In the discussion, he suggested that I help
00:13:27him with some companies and sign some papers for them, and he would
00:13:31pay my rent so I could live. Since then, I signed whatever
00:13:34he asked me to, and he kept his word and paid my rent at first,
00:13:38and then he hosted me as a boarder in his father's house, who
00:13:42was a jeweler. Many times his wife Anna also gave me the
00:13:45papers when he couldn't see me. At first, they had me
00:13:49go to the bank to get some cards which I
00:13:52handed over to Philippos. Many times he sent me to the KEP (Citizen Service Centers) to get
00:13:56authorizations for the people he told me, and I think that some of
00:14:00these mentioned these companies you
00:14:01told me about. and and you consider that this specific
00:14:05person has the most pivotal role among all the
00:14:09straw men, at least in the case file, it seems so. So let's
00:14:12open our discussion, of course, so let's discuss the matter with
00:14:16Ms. Virginia Xanthopoulou, she is a lawyer, she is, let's remind everyone, the
00:14:20lawyer of the first woman who realized what
00:14:23was happening and consequently brought the case to
00:14:27justice, and Mr. Giorgos Tsagkarakis, he is the General
00:14:29Secretary of Tax Officers of Attica and of course a member of the
00:14:33AADE, the Independent Authority of Public Revenue.
00:14:36Mina, so first of all, let's start with Ms. Xanthopoulou. Ms.
00:14:39Xanthopoulou, you saw the statements of your colleagues, your colleagues,
00:14:43excuse me, of the defense lawyers. You saw what Kolotoumpas says. What is your
00:14:47opinion on the case? Kolotoumpas
00:14:49is rather the lighter version because the
00:14:53man exploited his poverty.
00:14:55and his naivety, I guess, from what I understand.
00:14:59My feeling from the beginning was that we are dealing with a criminal network, that was
00:15:03clear, when my client found out that
00:15:07they were charging her, declaring her salaries to AADE
00:15:09three times the actual income, what they
00:15:13actually received, then we have said many times,
00:15:16we discovered that three companies were declaring
00:15:19their salaries and three others were actually paying her
00:15:22only 600 euros. that she received in total, so in
00:15:26my client's case, six
00:15:29companies are involved. In five of them, this
00:15:33Kolotoumpas is the legal representative, in the sixth one, his wife
00:15:36is the legal representative. When
00:15:39we saw
00:15:42these things, my client immediately sent a complaint
00:15:45email. First she complained verbally, but verbal complaints
00:15:49don't remain to have evidence now and the others
00:15:52other things of course. So we sent an email,
00:15:56she sent it to Kampouris's wife because Kampouris referred my client to his
00:16:00wife.
00:16:02She became furious with this email. She
00:16:06called my client and told her, "It's my fault for telling you to talk to the
00:16:09bosses instead of the rabble." This
00:16:13email was sent by my client
00:16:16on 6/6/24.
00:16:19On 14/6/24, my client was fired
00:16:23because of her complaints. Nicely, Kampouris told her
00:16:26that if you want to continue working for me, now
00:16:30I can't afford the 600 euros, only 300.
00:16:33If you want an eight-hour day, what job did she do? What job
00:16:36did she do?
00:16:38She was the chief editor of his show "Sti Fora", it was an external production
00:16:42which was broadcast on two channels alternately, sometimes he was on good
00:16:46terms with one, he was on good terms with the other, at least he gave her a good
00:16:50salary, 600 euros, of course. So my
00:16:54client's motive for investigating this whole process, we have
00:16:58said many times, was the loss of social benefits. She is a
00:17:02divorced woman with two minor children and is supported by
00:17:05social benefits, 600 euros. was not enough to live on, as we say
00:17:09colloquially. So when they
00:17:13fired her, my client sent a second email this
00:17:16time to Mr. Kampouris and his wife and the
00:17:20accountants saying "correct the mistake." Nothing
00:17:24happened. On 18/6/24,
00:17:27following that, I sent an email as a lawyer
00:17:30explaining that we would go to the financial police, we would take
00:17:34legal action if they didn't correct it. They did
00:17:37nothing. In November 2024, we sent a formal notice to
00:17:41Kampouris and the six companies. We found that these six companies
00:17:44are ghost companies. None of these
00:17:47companies were at their registered address, nor did the
00:17:51neighbors know them. We managed to find the
00:17:54straw men after a very extensive search by the court
00:17:57bailiff, at an address that was not visible
00:18:01anywhere, where she confirmed that they were outwardly
00:18:04miserable, distressed people I mean. This fraud
00:18:08that happens constantly in all such cases, it's always
00:18:12miserable, distressed people,
00:18:15people who are brutally exploited. So from
00:18:18November 2024 we knew that we were dealing with ghost
00:18:22companies, it's not an accounting error, as they
00:18:25claim now, because we tried many times to correct it
00:18:29and if it really was a mistake it would have been corrected, and
00:18:32then we made complaints to AADE
00:18:35from December 2024,
00:18:37and to EFKA, indeed, when these complaints were not
00:18:41progressing, we made a complaint to the financial police in
00:18:44September 2025. Let's also say that we have filed a labor
00:18:48lawsuit against Philippos Kampouris as a natural person, it has been
00:18:51ruled that he was her actual employer, he owes her
00:18:55salary differences from the 600 euros up to the legal minimum
00:18:58wage, a total of 26,000 euros, she has not received
00:19:02even 1 euro, and let's also say, since we have a
00:19:05representative of AADE here, that for the years
00:19:092023, 2024, 2025, we file an
00:19:12administrative appeal every year, asking for the amount of
00:19:15remuneration in code 301 to be corrected, correctly,
00:19:18legally that is, if it does not reject them, because only
00:19:22the employer can intervene in this code, not the employee,
00:19:25okay, let's not go into details, these are
00:19:28issues that need to be corrected, because okay, but let's not
00:19:31solve it on TV now, this must be understood, right, obviously
00:19:35understood, let's also go to...
00:19:37Mr. Tsagkarakis, because Mr. Tsagkarakis, you know what strikes me as very
00:19:41surprising, that while all this is happening and
00:19:44it's been happening since 2021 and Mr. Kampouris and his wife
00:19:48declare a few
00:19:51thousand euros as their tax return, I don't know,
00:19:55no one has suspected anything, I don't know
00:19:58what exactly is happening, no one has realized that
00:20:02something is not right, how
00:20:05does this also happen in
00:20:08concerns a fraud against EFKA, meaning people
00:20:12were not giving EFKA what they should for the insurance of their
00:20:16employees, nor were any alarm bells ringing, there are no
00:20:19safeguards in the system anywhere until an employee
00:20:23comes forward and risks their neck and reports
00:20:24them.
00:20:27Yes, good morning Mr. Karamitrou, good morning Mr.
00:20:30Grigoriadis, good morning, I think you have done
00:20:33amazing reporting, what I will tell you with... as
00:20:41we saw, Ms. Xanthopoulou essentially did the job of AADE,
00:20:44exactly, so perfectly
00:20:47exactly, so you understand then
00:20:50that we are dealing with a tax
00:20:53administration that perceives
00:20:57society as two different worlds, one world is my
00:21:00data and electronic transactions in which we
00:21:04all get caught, we small intermediaries etc. There is a huge
00:21:08world and here Kampouris's case is just a drop in the ocean, so
00:21:12essentially the amounts that are being cut are insignificant compared to the
00:21:15billions that these frauds
00:21:18manage, so we have another world where we deal with
00:21:22such companies that operate exactly with what you described, meaning
00:21:25that they end up with a straw man who obviously
00:21:28has nothing to pay so
00:21:31we should also be concerned by the fact that
00:21:35right now we are discussing something because a
00:21:38person, a working woman with
00:21:40very little money, had the courage and the
00:21:44strength. Imagine how much money this woman earns to be able to
00:21:48pay a lawyer to enter
00:22:00This explains everything, most people give up, it's impossible for a person who
00:22:03earns 600 euros to cope with such
00:22:07a system, the fees alone that
00:22:10are needed.
00:22:12Exactly, exactly. Let's say that this girl was borrowing money for the
00:22:16fees because.
00:22:22Mr. Tsagkarakis, however, all this you describe in a denunciatory, I understand,
00:22:26union-like way is something that
00:22:28you tax officials should have found a solution for
00:22:32from your side. That is, because in parallel we hear that another
00:22:36parallel investigation for fraud against the public sector could be launched, which amounts to
00:22:405.5 million euros, the total
00:22:43total monetary amount of the
00:22:46fraud. So you are telling us and you are saying it.
00:22:55case, there are many cases, sorry, let's go
00:22:59let's go then to the institutional framework and what we do
00:23:03so as a federation, we
00:23:06have approached the
00:23:09issue, there is a congress decision in which
00:23:12we ask AADE and we also have a ready
00:23:16legislative provision in which to...
00:23:21imagine that in Mr. Kampouris's case, the accountants involved, Mr.
00:23:24Kampouris, the straw man, the "Kolotoumpas" as you say, when
00:23:27this story is over, so
00:23:31even if they are all convicted, they will be able to
00:23:35continue operating with a sole proprietorship, meaning the
00:23:37continuity is not deactivated. So we have
00:23:40already denounced this and there is no response. Let me tell you that
00:23:44for all these cases of high tax evasion
00:23:47which is part of KEMF, which is a
00:23:50large wealth service, 130 positions were recently
00:23:54abolished, meaning it's also a matter, it's
00:23:57a matter of political will if they want people to deal with this
00:24:01direction, you understand? So it's not that for all these issues
00:24:05there aren't and I'm telling you it's a drop in
00:24:08the ocean, let me tell you two words about this, because right now
00:24:12there are huge businesses which
00:24:16either we don't know who they are
00:24:20operating, or they are operating and issuing all the documents and in the end they don't
00:24:23pay, I'm sure you have
00:24:26publications, or there are those
00:24:29who ultimately manage the final amounts are fans abroad without
00:24:33a legal entity, which they either transfer with
00:24:36multinationals, transfer their tax to abroad. We are talking about many
00:24:40tens of billions which
00:25:06now, with which I am dizzy.
00:25:09500,000 euros, 350,000 euros,
00:25:121.5 million, I wanted, 800,000 euros for the
00:25:15license, from here the loans, from there
00:25:20rights. the fees. From here what thousands of euros are these,
00:25:22I'm dizzy George, and among all these, the topic of intellectual
00:25:26So, who do we have with us in the studio today, Mr.
00:25:30Spyros Dimitriou, the lawyer, welcome. I found you, good morning.
00:25:33But we have the honor and
00:26:09start, to tell you the truth, Mr. Nikolopoulos, because
00:26:12you have experienced this firsthand, that is, the question
00:26:16whose song is it, my friend? You have experienced it
00:26:19firsthand. We have experienced it in the past. We
00:26:23have experienced it professionally, the older ones, to tell you the truth.
00:26:27We were there in the courtrooms.
00:26:29So, yes, whose are the songs,
00:26:33Mr. Nikolopoulos? Can you tell us? Uh, the
00:26:37songs belong to those who create them,
00:26:40right? Uh, the lawyer who hears them, I imagine, knows
00:26:43them better, to the creator, that is, to the
00:26:46composer and lyricist,
00:26:50exclusively. The other
00:26:53rights of the singers are related
00:26:56rights, uh, which only concern
00:27:00financial matters and...
00:27:02issues of moral right, that is, if someone takes
00:27:06their voice and puts it somewhere they don't want, they react, they have the moral
00:27:10right to react, I mean the performer,
00:27:13but the songs are exclusively the creators',
00:27:17right? So, you and
00:27:20in fact, would you ever ask for anything
00:27:23more for your songs or would
00:27:26you always ask for the legal ones? Look, I am a bit
00:27:30different, uh... I think from others, I am, I don't
00:27:34I never talk about
00:27:37without rare cases, I talk about even about my legal
00:27:41fees. Uh, there are, however,
00:27:44cases where some people ask for a higher
00:27:47fee because the fee that the collective
00:27:51organization they belong to collects
00:27:54does not satisfy them and because their songs play a big
00:27:57role in some big singers earning high wages
00:28:01and some, for example. They react in this
00:28:04way. I have never done it nor will I, because it is not in my
00:28:08nature. I am content with what the creator's right gives me. You are also president, Mr.
00:28:11Nikolopoulos is also president, right? In the
00:28:15specific management organization. Uh, Mr. Nikolopoulos,
00:28:18I want to ask you something from the other side now, to play devil's advocate a bit, if you
00:28:21allow me. We citizens or fans of one
00:28:25singer or another singer, we say that, my friend, this
00:28:28singer made the song famous, made the song what it is
00:28:32today. Uh and some comment and
00:28:35say that the singer should also
00:28:38in any case be able to sing the songs he sings on
00:28:42records in clubs for 40 years, let's say. What do you say about
00:28:45that?
00:28:47Well, ethically he has that right, but it's not exactly as you say it.
00:28:51Explain it to us. Yes, I'm telling you what people say, right? I'm not saying I
00:28:54agree with it. Yes, let's say I'll tell you one of my own songs, for example,
00:28:58now, and you'll tell me which singer it is, you don't even
00:29:01know him. In the Angels' bouzoukia
00:29:05which singer sings? Do you know Dimitriadis? Uh, you're
00:29:09right. No one
00:29:12knew that child. This
00:29:14is he who is very talented,
00:29:17very talented, very talented, and
00:29:20yet he emerged through this song.
00:29:23Therefore, correctly, therefore, singers don't always promote
00:29:27a song. If it has the
00:29:29elements to be a success and people love it. It becomes
00:29:33a success, it doesn't always play, many times the
00:29:36singer also plays a role, of course, yes, but the other, let's say, "I Exist"
00:29:39as Kazantzidis said it was something that
00:29:42I think has remained in all of Greece, no one else would have said it like
00:29:46Kazantzidis said it, oh dear, now we are not talking
00:29:50about a giant, that is, yes, yes, this
00:29:53is a giant. So, so we want to say that, you know,
00:29:57sometimes it's the lyricist, the composer, sometimes it's also the singer,
00:30:00of course, of course.
00:30:05Mr. Nikolopoulos, all this atmosphere that
00:30:08exists, thousands of euros,
00:30:12millions, so much, 800,000, 1.5
00:30:15million he asks, this, this little bit,
00:30:19how does it seem to you in a society
00:30:22that has issues, has problems, has, do you
00:30:25like it, what impression does it give you?
00:30:29Look, these are individual agreements, I think.
00:30:32Are they agreements? But when such a
00:30:35discussion suddenly comes to the
00:30:38surface, what
00:30:42impression does it give you? What
00:30:45can I tell you? Here everyone
00:30:47manages their rights as