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00:00:37every weekend we highlight society's
00:00:40issues every weekend the
00:00:53Mina Karamitrou and George Grigoriadis. What
00:00:56we are saying is that every weekend with us.
00:01:00the information, is worth your time, every
00:01:04Saturday and Sunday at 10:20 in the morning on
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00:02:05here begins the next day of
00:02:07news
00:02:10sky.gr
00:02:13news.
00:02:25Good morning with Thei Mavragani. every
00:02:29Saturday and Sunday. at 5:30 in the morning on sky,
00:03:12ADE, the authority that examines tax issues,
00:03:15has also entered the game. An audit was conducted at Nikos
00:03:19Karvelas's house for outstanding issues regarding his tax
00:03:22declarations, which
00:03:24way to experience the life of were also audited. It was not an audit, but a visit for service
00:03:28obviously.
00:03:30and a, how do we say it, a document that he has some outstanding issues and
00:03:34needs to cover them. He
00:03:37talks about these amounts that are heard, which are approximately 850,000€.
00:03:41It has not been clarified whether it is from Anna Vissi's concerts or from other
00:03:44activities of Nikos Karvelas, who of course has
00:03:47also suspended his company and now lives
00:03:50only from royalties, so this also falls
00:03:54under the general audit, and at the same time,
00:03:57the ones that
00:04:04appear not to have been paid as they should have been
00:04:07paid, this is for the concert at Kallimarmaro and for Anna Vissi's European
00:04:11tour. The note here, however, is that the production
00:04:15companies that held the concerts at Kallimarmaro did not belong to
00:04:18Anna Vissi. That is, while now it is not a company that Anna Vissi supposedly
00:04:22created, and this is only for OAKA, for
00:04:26OAKA, her previous concerts. and
00:04:36these are the news, sir, yes, Anna Vissi's circle
00:04:39denies that she owes anything and has said that she is consistent
00:04:43in all her obligations and
00:04:46that she is also available for any now these amounts that were heard
00:04:50850,000 50-70 are
00:04:53we sure that they are valid? I want to say, look, if there is no
00:04:56official announcement from the... well, there is no official announcement now.
00:05:05when they call you and an audit, they don't even know the amount. Let's bring Konstantinos
00:05:09Davlos, financial editor of Sky, into the conversation, and he will help us a lot.
00:05:13First of all, why does the tax office come to your house? Good evening, thank you very much for
00:05:17your help. Good evening, uh, the answer
00:05:21to this question is very simple, because Mr.
00:05:24Karvelas's business headquarters are his home. So
00:05:27it doesn't come, the AADE wouldn't come, for example, to me and
00:05:31you who are, let's say, on the TV like this to knock on our
00:05:35door, it goes to a business, it's just that this
00:05:38business has the same address as the house, so that's
00:05:41where they go.
00:05:46The fact that there has been a cessation does not mean that you cease to be associated with the
00:05:49business you had, nor that you cease to be liable for
00:05:53audits if a reason or cause arises that needs
00:05:57to be audited. If indeed, I don't know for sure
00:06:00and no one knows for sure, only if Mr.
00:06:03Karvelas is indeed being audited for 850,000 and he wants to
00:06:06check, obviously, if these funds pass through
00:06:10the business he had when they were active,
00:06:14obviously they will serve him the document at his house,
00:06:17seeking and wanting to conduct an audit for anything they deem
00:06:21necessary to audit, so it is common,
00:06:24common, it is a practice to go to a
00:06:28business, for the AADE to go to a business at the headquarters of
00:06:32the business is not common, it is the
00:06:35absolutely proper thing to do, it is the norm.
00:06:38Now there are other issues, because if it is true
00:06:42what is being said, that there was a reaction from Mr.
00:06:46Karvelas in the past, there had
00:06:49been, for example, on a well-known island
00:06:52of our country, reactions, clashes,
00:06:56beatings of AADE auditors, and laws
00:07:00have been enacted that
00:07:03manage how you can react against an
00:07:06auditor, which can even have criminal penalties. In the end, from what
00:07:10I know, Mr. Karvelas received the document
00:07:13electronically, obviously in his folder, in the email
00:07:17he has with the tax administration, and
00:07:20so the service was made. Now, what will be examined
00:07:24and how this will come out later and if the
00:07:27amounts are correct and what the amounts are, these are surely information that does not come out from the
00:07:31AADE, but in a case where two
00:07:34sides are involved and obviously each side wants to release some
00:07:37information, one side releases other information about the other, and somehow
00:07:41that's how it seems...
00:07:49declarations, I received some amounts, I received the same at
00:07:51Kallimarmaro, it's that simple, I wouldn't say it's that
00:07:55simple, uh, I don't think the AADE started
00:07:58moving now, today, to check
00:08:02an event which obviously would have had
00:08:05very large amounts being circulated and many
00:08:08businesses focused there, meaning it's a business for
00:08:12the... it's a production business that
00:08:15collaborates with a business that will bring lights, with a business that will bring
00:08:18sound, with a business that will bring toilets, with a business that
00:08:22will close advertisements, that will bring beers, where, where, where.
00:08:26All this is a tax burden
00:08:29and if we accept that there have been previous
00:08:33concerts by Ms. Vissi last year at Kallimarmaro, which
00:08:36also attracted so many people and brought in a lot
00:08:40of money, whether the tax has been paid, I don't know, and I'm not going to
00:08:44say it, but surely these trigger
00:08:48alarm bells in the AADE's algorithm. Let's not forget that the
00:08:51AADE now checks such cases with algorithms, but even if they don't
00:08:55trigger the AADE's model, the AADE
00:08:59has surely visited a
00:09:02production company that is going to do something so
00:09:06big, because it prepares in order to
00:09:09see if this very big thing will cover it.
00:09:12and will be dealt with correctly tax-wise. I wasn't talking about this
00:09:15case, I was talking about Karvelas's case, that is, if
00:09:19it coincided in time, was it accidental that the next day the
00:09:22AADE went outside his house? That's what I'm saying, there's no way it's something
00:09:26accidental, because even if Mr.
00:09:29Karvelas is not involved in this case, issues of
00:09:32rights are involved and these have surely been discussed
00:09:36within the AADE. If we assume, for example,
00:09:39although I don't follow this case very closely,
00:09:43that both sides say that something was paid to Mr. Karvelas, whether
00:09:47it was paid or not, I don't know, this
00:09:49means that even there it has been heard
00:09:52tax-wise that Mr. Karvelas has received something
00:09:56or is about to receive something or should have received
00:09:59something because
00:10:023€, that's what I'm saying, these are amounts that I've heard
00:10:05250, I heard 300, it could be
00:10:09now, if from there on a procedure starts.
00:10:12it's because obviously, again, in the AADE's algorithms
00:10:16alarm bells are ringing and these are big alarm bells, if
00:10:20we assume that 6 million were circulated, six and
00:10:23more amounts have. reached to be circulated in a possible
00:10:27audit from 2021 until 2025, I think the audit will take place,
00:10:31this was requested, this is what we heard. When there is
00:10:34a gap or an amount of 80,000, what
00:10:37happens in this case, what happens?
00:10:39Obviously, question.
00:10:43A fine is imposed. A fine is imposed. First of all, there haven't
00:10:46been, from what I've read at least from other colleagues, there haven't been any declarations
00:10:50that were finally submitted retrospectively. The declarations must
00:10:53be submitted. If there weren't, I don't
00:10:57know, I can't know that. This means, however, that
00:11:00at some point an audit comes,
00:11:03and this audit, especially if it concerns the previous
00:11:07five years, even if someone's economic
00:11:10business activity has ceased,
00:11:13the first five years are certainly a five-year period in which you are
00:11:17obliged, even if you have closed your business, to keep records. Your accountants keep them,
00:11:21they are digital now, so you can...
00:11:25be audited and you are responsible for them. Surely
00:11:28after five years, other regulations start to apply. So, if the
00:11:32850 are beyond the five-year period, it's something
00:11:35else that applies to that, but for the last five years, it's certain that
00:11:39these funds can be audited and
00:11:42are treated as current income, let's
00:11:46say. This is my question. Should Anna Vissi
00:11:50and Nikos Karvelas regret the previous
00:11:54all this publicity and the light they shed on
00:11:57the concerts, or is it something that would have happened anyway, they would have been
00:12:00audited anyway? Uh, I don't think, because it's not
00:12:04of a financial nature.
00:12:07I understand how you put it. In the end, if we assume they should
00:12:11regret it, uh, I have the impression that
00:12:14I'm sure that at some point, listening to Ms. Vissi's
00:12:18lawyer, I think he was right to say that it probably
00:12:21didn't do them any good.
00:12:25then on, it is certain that they should have
00:12:28imagined that if they had not imagined it, they have
00:12:32made a mistake, that when you make an event of this
00:12:35size, you have to expect that you will undergo
00:12:38audits.
00:12:41because the money is very large, the amounts are very large, and one last question: if someone
00:12:44theoretically lends you an amount of 100, 200,
00:12:48500,000, it's an amount that you are obliged to declare
00:12:51to the tax office even if it's from a friend, because it's a large
00:12:55amount, of course, whether it's a gift, I don't know, it could be a gift,
00:12:58all, for all these there are rules, of course, and you have to declare it,
00:13:02there are, let's say, if you don't declare it, if it's not
00:13:06a family relationship and is not considered a parental provision,
00:13:10uh, of course it's a gift and it exceeds, it has
00:13:13tax treatment, of course, whether it's a loan or a gift,
00:13:17even if it's a loan, you have to declare it, you can't
00:13:20uh, money doesn't
00:13:23move like that anymore and especially as our
00:13:27lives become digitized, money can't move in this
00:13:31way, because it always has to be income
00:13:34in the end. So, an income you, if we assume you take an
00:13:37amount and then invest it and from that
00:13:40you receive profits, why did you invest
00:13:44it? Uh, how will it show up, how did you prove it, where is the
00:13:47origin of this amount? This amount needs to have appeared somewhere,
00:13:50it's not that simple in the end, because the AADE was mentioned
00:13:54a lot.
00:13:57what did it do, what did it ask for, for such
00:14:00issues and on the contrary, as you said at the beginning of the discussion, there are
00:14:03GDPR, there are issues of personal data and the
00:14:07AADE is very careful about this. When it makes
00:14:10announcements, it always refers to a company, to a
00:14:13region and to the sector of
00:14:16catering, for example, or something like that, and it never reveals
00:14:20who it is. Some things are learned journalistically from
00:14:24sources and through other channels, that's why I said at the
00:14:27beginning that perhaps here the information is given by one
00:14:31side for the other side, depending on what they think they want to
00:14:35gain, and it doesn't come from the AADE. Indeed,
00:14:38this famous algorithm that rings alarm bells, is
00:14:42it more likely to ring when someone says "I went in, guys, I didn't make
00:14:46any money at all," or when they say "I made money"? The
00:14:49algorithm surely rings when the money is a lot,
00:14:53uh, whether it says I didn't make it or I made it, or I didn't
00:14:57make it, is of very little importance to the algorithm,
00:15:01which will surely look for the large amount and how
00:15:04it was circulated. Surely the state will demand the VAT,
00:15:07no one can escape it, so,
00:15:11as it moves, and if now
00:15:14an activity has no
00:15:18profit, tax-wise this does not
00:15:21affect it, it may not end up having tax
00:15:24on profit, but the fact that you will be asked
00:15:28to pay the VAT on the amount, depending on
00:15:32which category it falls under and what VAT is imposed, you certainly cannot
00:15:35avoid this regardless of whether you lost money. No, there is no
00:15:39such case. If the money must be paid
00:15:42or if the rights must be
00:15:45paid, whether the company or the
00:15:48concert made profits or not, it does not mean that
00:15:51the rights are paid or not paid. They must
00:15:54be paid, they are part of the cost, there are some reliefs
00:15:58however for the coming years, if some, perhaps if you don't have profits, when a
00:16:02company, when something is loss-making for the coming years, things are more
00:16:06favorable for you. Yes, finally, if the company is proven
00:16:10indeed that this event was loss-making,
00:16:13it will not pay income tax, because it did not make
00:16:16income.
00:16:19These will be paid, and within the
00:16:22expenses of the event, there may
00:16:25be the logical ones, electricity, rental of the
00:16:28space, people, but it's probably also the rights, so that's also part of the
00:16:32expense. Now, if the
00:16:36expense was calculated correctly, yes. Or people came, because an event can be
00:16:39prepared and the stadium not be full and it could go completely wrong, it
00:16:42still doesn't mean that you won't pay what
00:16:46you owe. You won't ultimately pay tax because you didn't make
00:16:50a profit. If you do make a profit, you will obviously pay tax. Indeed.
00:16:54Yes, you rent chairs from somewhere and the event doesn't go well, you won't
00:16:57pay. These are givens. This is what you owe.