Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01Downtown on Syria TV and the second
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00:00:59legal steps and how The British newspaper The Guardian
00:01:02revealed that a Syrian doctor faces deportation after the British
00:01:06Ministry of Interior decided to withdraw refugee status
00:01:09from a number of Syrians
00:01:12to that administrative in a move it described as the first of its kind in Europe since the fall
00:01:17this person, of the ousted regime.
00:01:20The Syrian refugee file in Europe is undergoing radical transformations,
00:01:23as the acceptance rates of asylum applications
00:01:27Yes, there are
00:01:27such as being persecuted have sharply declined in several countries, while Britain
00:01:30faces criticism after withdrawing refugee status from some
00:01:33Syrians since the fall of the
00:01:37enter a work ousted regime. The Guardian newspaper revealed
00:01:40that a Syrian doctor faces deportation after the British
00:01:44Here in Britain, Ministry of Interior decided to withdraw his refugee
00:01:51related to the and how it affects status, considering Syria processing these applications safe for the return of refugees, in a move that is the first of its kind in Europe, expecting
00:01:54that deportation decisions will
00:01:57currently, affect thousands of Syrians residing in the United Kingdom in the coming
00:02:00period. Syrian refugees in Britain complain
00:02:04about the long waiting period for their asylum or permanent
00:02:08residency applications to be processed, a situation they
00:02:10describe as forced waiting, as its impact extends
00:02:14to work, housing, travel, and family reunification, demanding
00:02:17that the authorities set a
00:02:20Bashir, are there clear timeframe for processing
00:02:21asylum law, not the accumulated applications.
00:02:24At the European Union level, 2767
00:02:26applications
00:02:29were rejected out of
00:02:34even recently, 3807 Syrian applications last
00:02:36year, bringing the acceptance
00:02:41by finding and this is coming rate to only 28% compared to 90% in
00:02:432024. Meanwhile, the acceptance
00:02:48regarding the rate of Syrian applications in February last year
00:02:50did not exceed 19%,
00:02:53perhaps permanent residence? according to EU statistics.
00:02:56Several European countries have no longer justified
00:03:00for Syrians, while
00:03:02rights should be countries including Germany intend to start
00:03:05deportation operations based
00:03:07my guest, Maya Al-Ostwani, on the fact that the justifications that existed before the fall
00:03:11of the ousted regime, such as high levels of violence
00:03:14and forced conscription,
00:03:16are no longer valid
00:03:21Immigration in Britain, Al-Ostwani, a member of the
00:03:24Board of Directors of the
00:03:26they used British Syrian Council, joins us live from London. Welcome.
00:03:29I also welcome Bashir Ali, a researcher
00:03:33in immigration and asylum affairs, from Frankfurt. Welcome
00:03:36to both of you. I'll start with you, Mr. Bashir,
00:03:40to talk about these steps and how you read these
00:03:43steps by Britain in the context of changing
00:03:47the policy we are seeing in the asylum file, the
00:03:53relate to him. two years of Syrian asylum file. First, greetings to you and your esteemed guest, and also to the honorable
00:03:57viewers. When a person reads
00:04:01you get permanent the news, it is a measure that
00:04:04began not only in Britain but also in other
00:04:08European countries, and it differs from country
00:04:11to country. As for Britain, despite the fact
00:04:15that the situation in Syria is considered to have improved,
00:04:18but it is volatile, it
00:04:20We are currently in contact has taken this step. And for the refugee himself,
00:04:24he still has
00:04:27a legal path to take.
00:04:30before the British courts against this
00:04:33decision, and perhaps he has another option to
00:04:36obtain another type of residence. But what raises
00:04:40controversy in this decision in Britain
00:04:44are the fundamentals for considering the situation
00:04:47in Syria safe in the long term, because one
00:04:52and his family, of the principles of the Geneva Convention, which Britain relies on to revoke
00:04:56the asylum status of any person when the reasons
00:05:00for asylum in the home country cease to exist,
00:05:03is that the situation must be stable in the long
00:05:07term, and not volatile as the United Nations
00:05:10stated, that this situation might change at any
00:05:14moment in any region, and perhaps fighting and
00:05:17violence. What is the legal basis that the
00:05:21Ministry of Interior relied on to revoke the asylum
00:05:25status of a Syrian doctor residing in London?
00:05:28The legal basis states that when the situation
00:05:32changes or when the reasons for asylum of any person
00:05:36in the home country cease to exist, based
00:05:39on the 1951 Geneva Refugee Convention,
00:05:43the asylum status granted to them is
00:05:46revoked. This residence was revoked without
00:05:49specifying which region he is from
00:05:53and to what extent the situation is stable in
00:05:58said that this decision can be appealed. What
00:06:01are the legal options available to a refugee
00:06:04whose protection card or even residency is
00:06:08withdrawn? What are the
00:06:11can they appeal? First,
00:06:14the name of the court and the location of the court are written
00:06:18in the decision to revoke his asylum
00:06:21status. He appeals
00:06:25court in the area where he lives,
00:06:28and he provides new reasons
00:06:31or the same reasons with evidence that the
00:06:34situation for him or the reasons he mentioned,
00:06:40by extremist groups, are still present. He must
00:06:43prove that the reasons still exist.
00:06:47Then he might retain the asylum status
00:06:50that was revoked by the British authorities.
00:06:53As for the second option, the British
00:06:57authorities, with regard to their immigration and
00:07:00asylum law, clearly state that the
00:07:03person has options to stay based on the
00:07:06person's integration and based on the situation
00:07:09of the family and children in Britain. Okay, Mr.
00:07:13Bashir, based on the case of the Syrian
00:07:16doctor residing in London since 2016, to what
00:07:19extent are there perhaps fears or even indications
00:07:22that this case might constitute a beginning
00:07:25for reviewing many files?
00:07:29This legal situation, which is clear in
00:07:33only in Britain but also in other
00:07:36European countries, states that when the reasons
00:07:40for asylum cease to
00:07:43exist, the person's file is opened as
00:07:47part of the cancellation or withdrawal procedures,
00:07:51for many Syrian refugees. Many
00:07:55European countries have also started this trend,
00:07:58considering that the security situation in Syria differs
00:08:01from one region to another. Therefore, we will see
00:08:04in the coming days perhaps this measure
00:08:08against many Syrian refugees in Britain and
00:08:11other European countries. Yes, this will perhaps constitute a beginning for reviewing
00:08:15wider files. Okay, let's hear from
00:08:20about these steps that Britain is taking.
00:08:23What has changed in British policy towards
00:08:27Syrian
00:08:29refugees? Welcome.
00:08:33Regarding the change in British policy,
00:08:35unfortunately, after the liberation of Syria
00:08:39from the Assad regime, Britain
00:08:42halted all
00:08:46permanent residency applications for Syrians.
00:08:50After that, they gradually started processing applications.
00:08:53They first started processing applications from Syrians
00:08:57who came to Britain for resettlement through
00:09:01the United Nations. Then, after about
00:09:05the halt, currently in October,
00:09:07decisions started arriving
00:09:11for applications submitted by Syrian
00:09:15refugees who came to Britain
00:09:18on their own and applied for asylum.
00:09:22Unfortunately, the British doctor whom The Guardian
00:09:25reported on today is not the only one
00:09:29who received a rejection.
00:09:33with more than five families who also received
00:09:36rejections from the Home Office for permanent
00:09:38residency, and the rejection of residency
00:09:42also came with the withdrawal of refugee
00:09:46status. So these families are currently facing
00:09:50the risk of deportation from Britain, even though Syria is
00:09:53still unstable and needs time, it needs
00:09:57time to recover, it needs time
00:10:00to rebuild the basics and infrastructure,
00:10:04it needs time to rebuild the houses
00:10:07themselves. Because if these refugees are to
00:10:11return to a destroyed country where there are
00:10:15no basics, with their families and children,
00:10:18it will be very difficult for them to
00:10:22integrate into society. Yes, and it's difficult
00:10:26for them to contribute to society. Of course,
00:10:29in the end, we are looking for dignity
00:10:33for these families so they can live
00:10:36their lives with dignity. So their return
00:10:39in the current circumstances is very
00:10:43difficult and unacceptable. That's why we are
00:10:49a member of this council, the British
00:10:52Syrian Council's board of directors, and especially
00:10:56since you indicated that this is not the
00:10:59first case and there are cases and perhaps,
00:11:02God forbid, the
00:11:04file will expand to perhaps a
00:11:07larger number than that. What are
00:11:11the steps you are taking in the
00:11:14British Syrian Council with the parties,
00:11:17perhaps, or to cooperate to reach a
00:11:20common formula and understand the new
00:11:24trends in Britain? Have you taken any
00:11:27steps? Over the past two
00:11:30years, we first spoke with members
00:11:33of Parliament. A Member of Parliament
00:11:37named David Teller helped us to hold
00:11:40a session in Parliament for those affected
00:11:43by the delay in applications. Then we
00:11:46launched a campaign and tried to contact
00:11:49Members of Parliament, and the Syrian community
00:11:53kindly joined us. We were able to
00:11:57reach the Immigration Minister, Alex Norris,
00:12:00and we sat down with him and tried
00:12:04to explain to him the great impact
00:12:06of the delay in
00:12:10on these families
00:12:12their daily lives. Many of them work,
00:12:16their children are in universities or schools,
00:12:19some of them have health conditions, their
00:12:23children need health care. All of
00:12:26this was affecting them. Unfortunately,
00:12:29the result was that they accelerated
00:12:32the processing of applications in October, but
00:12:36the processing of applications is resulting in rejections,
00:12:40and this is the problem. They are the ones
00:12:43who are causing personal danger. They are
00:12:46making it as if people are applying
00:12:50for asylum from scratch. They need there
00:12:54to be personal danger to you
00:12:57in order to get asylum, and
00:13:00this is unprecedented. It has not happened
00:13:03before in Britain. What are the justifications
00:13:07from the British side, especially
00:13:13issue of delays in paperwork or
00:13:18What are their justifications?
00:13:21Well, at the beginning, they were saying that
00:13:25they had a backlog of applications.
00:13:27Yes, because during the period of Syria's
00:13:30liberation and the fall of Assad's regime,
00:13:34they stopped processing applications until they
00:13:38could see what would happen in Syria in
00:13:42the next stage. So during that
00:13:45period, they stopped processing any applications
00:13:48for almost a year, so they
00:13:50had a backlog of applications. So
00:13:53their constant justification to us was that
00:13:57they are currently processing the delayed
00:14:00applications. But unfortunately, when
00:14:03they started processing the delayed applications,
00:14:06they started processing them in a way
00:14:09that is not suitable for these
00:14:12families. They started treating them as if
00:14:16they were applying for asylum from scratch,
00:14:19as I said. In Britain, usually, if
00:14:22you apply for asylum,
00:14:26residence after five years. But
00:14:29currently, there is something called the
00:14:33seven-year rule. They send questions to the person applying for
00:14:37permanent residence, asking them if there is
00:14:41a risk to their life, why they don't
00:14:44want to return to Syria, what problems
00:14:47they will face, and they are conducting
00:14:50interviews with them. All of this is
00:14:54affecting them and causing them great
00:14:58psychological pressure. People have started to experience
00:15:02depression. Some people have family
00:15:05problems and health problems. All of
00:15:08this is affecting them. And when the
00:15:11rejections started coming, it was a surprise.
00:15:14Even the doctor
00:15:17they received the rejection. He had
00:15:20no legal problems. He has
00:15:23no problems in the country. He
00:15:27is a doctor who has completed
00:15:30the equalization of his certificate. He should
00:15:33be of value to Britain. Britain is
00:15:37forced to recruit doctors from outside
00:15:40Britain because they have a shortage.
00:15:43So why don't they benefit from
00:15:47the refugees who have certificates and
00:15:50employ them? These are also the considerations
00:15:53regarding the Syrian doctor. What are
00:15:56the considerations that
00:16:00Britain, the concerned and responsible authorities,
00:16:04talked about specifically regarding the case
00:16:08of the Syrian doctor?
00:16:11Well, regarding this doctor,
00:16:14they told him that you have no
00:16:17problems returning to Syria. All the reasons you applied
00:16:21for asylum based on have ceased
00:16:24to exist, so you are able to
00:16:28return to your home country and integrate
00:16:31again, just as you were able to
00:16:34easily integrate into British society,
00:16:38you and your children. So
00:16:42you can easily integrate into Syria. Of course, this
00:16:45is not true because it is difficult
00:16:48for a person to lose ten years
00:16:51of their life and start from
00:16:55scratch, especially in an unstable
00:16:58situation. So it is illogical,
00:17:02frankly.
00:17:04other paths in other European countries. For
00:17:08example, if a person's refugee status is
00:17:11revoked, they can
00:17:14path, a study path, or a
00:17:18family life path.
00:17:22these paths do not exist. These paths
00:17:25were opened, or rather, they will
00:17:28be opened next year for asylum
00:17:31seekers. Refugees who are applying for
00:17:35permanent residence have not had paths
00:17:39opened for them. Ms. Maya, what
00:17:42about the role of the Refugee
00:17:45Convention and also the rules related
00:17:49to non-refoulement in the context
00:17:52of protection related to Syrians?
00:17:54Currently,
00:17:57the natural return, they are asking
00:18:00refugees for voluntary return and trying
00:18:04to encourage them by providing
00:18:08financial amounts,
00:18:11there is a company that helps
00:18:14those who wish to return voluntarily
00:18:18housing or by reintegrating
00:18:21in Syria, even though, frankly, the services they
00:18:25provide are very limited and not
00:18:28suitable for families who might return
00:18:32to Syria. So, regarding
00:18:34the Refugee Convention, refugees'
00:18:39protected, and they should not
00:18:42be returned to a place where
00:18:46they do not
00:18:48feel safe. So the reasons
00:18:51of the Home Office, which is
00:18:55the Ministry of
00:18:58are illogical, and it seems that
00:19:03AI because their responses to
00:19:06permanent residency applications are,
00:19:10first of all, very long, and
00:19:14second, they contain clauses that do
00:19:17not relate to the person themselves.
00:19:20For example, the doctor had almost
00:19:24three clauses in the response
00:19:27that did not
00:19:31They told him that he could return to Saudi
00:19:34Arabia because
00:19:37he lived there for four years,
00:19:40even though he never lived in
00:19:43Saudi Arabia. Another family was
00:19:47told they could return to Albania,
00:19:51even though they never lived in
00:19:54Albania. So there are illogical
00:19:58responses to applications, and it is clear
00:20:01that they used AI. They are
00:20:04not processing applications separately by staff
00:20:07members. So they have.
00:20:10Okay, Mr. Bashir, earlier you referred
00:20:14to the issue that there is
00:20:16a policy among European countries regarding
00:20:20voluntary return and the refugee file.
00:20:24Are there other countries that have
00:20:27started taking the same steps as
00:20:30Britain? Yes, more than
00:20:34one European country has started taking
00:20:37these steps and has started opening the
00:20:41files of Syrian refugees within
00:20:44the context of the reasons for asylum
00:20:48having ceased to exist in the
00:20:51home country, and you must provide
00:20:55convincing reasons to stay in
00:20:58Germany. And
00:21:01messages have been sent to
00:21:05many Syrian refugees in Germany, at
00:21:07least, in a not
00:21:11insignificant number, and they must
00:21:15now cooperate with
00:21:18the authority, for example, in Germany,
00:21:22the Federal Office for Migration and
00:21:25Refugees within the procedures for
00:21:28withdrawal and cancellation, which may later lead to the
00:21:32cancellation of their refugee status or
00:21:35the protection they received in Germany.
00:21:38As for other countries, Austria
00:21:42has also started these procedures,
00:21:44and so has the Netherlands
00:21:48and more than one other country,
00:21:52Sweden and also Denmark, within
00:21:55these procedures. However, what
00:21:58has been common so far in
00:22:01Germany and other European countries
00:22:05is the cancellation of refugee status
00:22:07for other reasons
00:22:10not related to the situation in
00:22:14Syria. It was for reasons related,
00:22:18for example, to visiting
00:22:21Syria without a compelling humanitarian
00:22:25reason, for example, obtaining a passport
00:22:28and the person's situation placing
00:22:31them under the protection of the
00:22:34state from which they came. These
00:22:38were reasons not
00:22:41security situation in Syria or
00:22:44the stability of the situation in
00:22:47Syria. Also, the service situation
00:22:51is not taken into account in
00:22:55asylum law in European countries.
00:22:58This matter is a foregone
00:23:01conclusion. Personal persecution for a
00:23:05reason, for example, being
00:23:08a member of a religious or
00:23:11ethnic group, or having
00:23:14a different political opinion from a
00:23:17governmental or non-governmental entity.
00:23:20Perhaps if these reasons cease
00:23:24to exist, it leads to the
00:23:27cancellation of their refugee status.
00:23:31Therefore, can it be said,
00:23:33in light of
00:23:36all these steps, that we are
00:23:39facing perhaps a new application
00:23:42of legal standards related to perhaps
00:23:46changing European policy on the
00:23:50refugee file? Indeed, these
00:23:53procedures have begun.
00:23:56The standard is clear in
00:24:00asylum law, and actually,
00:24:03even in the 1951 Geneva
00:24:06Refugee Convention, these procedures are
00:24:10clear, and these standards are clear. The same procedures
00:24:14that are taking place in Britain
00:24:17are taking place in Germany and
00:24:20other European countries. A letter or
00:24:24message is sent to the person
00:24:27that their file has been opened
00:24:30for withdrawal and cancellation procedures.
00:24:33You have the right to respond
00:24:37within a month. What are your
00:24:41new reasons? Are the reasons you
00:24:44presented the first time still valid?
00:24:48And then the
00:24:57application is reviewed. So these standards
00:25:52exist in the law and are
00:25:54being applied now. However, the meaning
00:25:58of revoking asylum status does not mean deportation.
00:26:02And legally, there is a
00:26:06difference between
00:26:08revoking asylum
00:26:12status and refusing to renew residency
00:26:15and deportation operations.
00:26:19Revoking asylum status has
00:26:21reasons. When a person places
00:26:24himself under the protection of the
00:26:28country from which he came, or
00:26:30visits the home country without a
00:26:34justifiable humanitarian reason, or
00:26:37the reasons for personal persecution
00:26:40in the home
00:26:48country cease to
00:26:50exist, these
00:26:53reasons lead to the revocation
00:26:56of asylum status.
00:27:04Deportation has
00:27:05other procedures.
00:27:12Deportation requires the consent of
00:27:16the home country and guarantees that
00:27:19when they return to the home
00:27:34country, will not be subjected to
00:27:38persecution and will not be
00:27:41subjected to torture or killing
00:27:44or kidnapping.
00:27:48There are many reasons that
00:27:51must be among the guarantees
00:27:53of the receiving
00:27:55state, and
00:28:00and until now, Syria is
00:28:02only talking about voluntary,
00:28:05dignified return and not forced
00:28:09return or deportation. Okay, in light
00:28:11of that, Mr.
00:28:22legal options
00:28:27available to the Syrian refugee?
00:28:29Can he really appeal these decisions?
00:28:33The decision to revoke residency
00:28:37or asylum status or subsidiary protection
00:28:40that a person obtained in Europe
00:28:42or Britain, he has the
00:28:46right to appeal to the courts. And since 2020,
00:28:50at least in Europe, there
00:28:53are wide
00:29:00options to change
00:29:02residency to residency for another
00:29:06purpose, including work,
00:29:09vocational training, study, or for a
00:29:12specific family situation. The
00:29:16child is integrated into German society,
00:29:19meaning the father
00:29:21and mother obtain residency
00:29:25based on the child in Germany.
00:29:28However, we must distinguish between two important
00:29:32points: integration is not related
00:29:36to the cessation of the reasons
00:29:40for asylum of any person in
00:29:43Germany. These are two separate
00:29:45matters. When the reasons for asylum
00:30:37of any person in the home
00:30:40country cease
00:30:41to exist and
00:30:45their asylum status is revoked,
00:30:49integration is then considered
00:30:53the latest developments.
00:30:53regional
00:30:59Syrian