Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:45what excites
00:01:40so that is when the window of
00:01:59now how is the
00:02:26y está claro también en
00:02:26It is a temporary solution to what
00:02:56escape plan because that's what
00:03:07atado a preocupaciones con
00:03:11Secretary of Defense of the United States, who joined
00:03:23such.
00:03:35How are you? Good evening, it's a pleasure to greet you. I am Fernando del Rincón, welcome, welcome
00:03:39to Conclusiones, thank you for joining me.
00:03:42This, this like every night. Flavio
00:03:46Bolsonaro, political persecute,
00:03:50fugitive from justice,
00:03:54how do you define him?
00:03:57It depends on who you ask, they will tell you that Flavio Bolsonaro is a
00:04:00fugitive from Brazilian justice, or they will tell you that he is a
00:04:04political persecute who is seeking refuge and that the United
00:04:07States has granted it to him,
00:04:10but who determines that?
00:04:13It is determined by the political ideology of
00:04:16who you ask, it is determined by the
00:04:20justice of the country of which he is
00:04:23a native, who determines
00:04:26today what Flavio Bolsonaro is?
00:04:31Is he a political persecute, is he
00:04:35a fugitive from justice, is he a refugee, which of the
00:04:37three? It depends on who you
00:04:40ask, because if you ask
00:04:43the Latin American right, they might tell
00:04:46you no, he is a political persecute, if you ask the left,
00:04:50he is a fugitive from justice, but these are merely
00:04:53opinions, as a guest told me yesterday, from a technical
00:04:56point of view.
00:05:00No, let's forget about ideologies and
00:05:04let's look at it from a technical point of view, let's look at it from that
00:05:08technical point of view. Who should we
00:05:11listen to?
00:05:13To a justice that prevented him from leaving the country, that asked
00:05:17for his passports and that he
00:05:20precisely violated
00:05:23those rules that were imposed,
00:05:26he would have to be seen then as someone who has fled the
00:05:30control of the justice of his country,
00:05:34but then there comes the ideological
00:05:37interpretation, those who link the judge
00:05:41who determined... the justice that determined
00:05:44linked to an ideology and from there
00:05:48other governments on the other
00:05:51side of the coin participate, such as Argentina with my
00:05:55law, such as Ecuador with
00:05:59Noboa and the United States with Donald
00:06:01Trump. The truth is
00:06:05that Flavio Bolsonaro's case ceased to be
00:06:08just a Brazilian issue, Flavio Bolsonaro's case.
00:06:12Flavio Bolsonaro's case, today, as you want to define it, a fugitive from
00:06:16justice, a political persecute, a refugee, today it has
00:06:20become an international issue, why, because there will be a
00:06:23necessary confrontation
00:06:27between the government of Argentina with President Milei and President
00:06:30Lula da Silva, which already
00:06:33existed, but now with this element named Flavio Bolsonaro,
00:06:37there will surely be greater
00:06:41consequences, but also with... the government of the United States with President Donald Trump, who
00:06:44also already had tension between the two governments
00:06:47and
00:06:50to further complicate the
00:06:54scenario, Flavio Bolsonaro states first
00:06:57that he is the true elected president of Brazil,
00:07:00then he regrets it and says
00:07:04that he is the true leader of
00:07:06Brazil.
00:07:09What will happen to Bolsonaro in the United States? How long
00:07:12will he stay?
00:07:15Because President Donald Trump ends his term
00:07:19in approximately 2 years, and after
00:07:22that, where will Bolsonaro
00:07:26go, will he stay here, will they let
00:07:29him stay, will he not go, will they
00:07:31return him, will justice
00:07:34request him?
00:07:39may happen in the future, meanwhile.
00:07:42In the meantime, who defines him as
00:07:45what?
00:07:48You, in your opinion, the justice of a country or the
00:07:51ideology that he
00:07:52shares?
00:07:55I leave that question to you,
00:07:58define him yourself, from a technical
00:08:00point of view, he has fled Brazilian
00:08:03justice,
00:08:04is he
00:08:08persecuted? I don't
00:08:10know.
00:08:13Political persecuted? I don't know.
00:08:15I
00:08:18cannot determine that, that will have to
00:08:21be determined with in-depth investigations into the situation of
00:08:25Flavio Bolsonaro, so
00:08:27receive him as you wish, as a fugitive, as
00:08:31a political persecute or as a refugee, everyone
00:08:35interprets Bolsonaro's
00:08:36reality as it best
00:08:40suits them. Let's talk about that, if you like,
00:08:43also about the scandal of the National Electoral Institute in Mexico, those are
00:08:47the two topics for tonight.
00:08:48noche.
00:08:55So I ask you to join me from this moment on, using the hashtag Conclu Bolsonaro, the hashtag is
00:08:59conclubolsonaro, remember your comments with this
00:09:02hashtag conclubolsonaro my account nx@soyfdelrincón@soyf
00:09:06del
00:09:07rico.
00:09:18Well, as you can see, Flavio Bolsonaro arrived in the United States, he arrived in
00:09:21Miami, after leaving Brazil, where the federal police
00:09:25said, he said, no, they demanded on
00:09:28Monday that he hand over his passports, he had already said it, obviously, and they
00:09:32told him that he was forbidden to leave the country, he was prevented from leaving,
00:09:36so he then ruled out having any intentions of doing so, the documents
00:09:39were canceled, as reported by the federal police. and his whereabouts
00:09:43were a mystery for hours until we received the
00:09:47images of his arrival, now we know things
00:09:51more clearly, is that he crossed to Argentina
00:09:54boarded a private plane there in Argentina
00:09:58bound for Ecuador
00:10:01eh made a stopover in Guayaquil and from there
00:10:04continued then to Miami, of course
00:10:08he was with his wife and his two daughters, his
00:10:11arrival occurs. In this context in which the
00:10:14Bolsonaro family has been supported, because it is not
00:10:18only Flavio, but also his father Jair
00:10:21Bolsonaro, by President Donald Trump, who has expressed.
00:10:25always his support for
00:10:27them, right? And who confirmed today that they approved his entry to the United
00:10:30States, but in the midst of this journey Bolsonaro did not
00:10:34waste time, as I was telling you, he published a
00:10:38letter in which he proclaimed himself the true president of Brazil,
00:10:41he regretted it later, he deleted it and published another version in which he says that
00:10:45he is the leader of Brazil, he states
00:10:49that the elections were stolen from him, he accuses the justice of his country of
00:10:52orchestrating a political persecution, without. presenting
00:10:55evidence to support these accusations, attention,
00:10:58attention, yes, he disavows the electoral result, something
00:11:02that not even his own party has done, and he compares
00:11:05himself with historical figures who led political movements from
00:11:08exile, he also made it clear that his departure does not mean
00:11:12withdrawing from politics, he announces that he will lead the opposition from the United
00:11:16strategy to mobilize his
00:11:19message, Bolsonaro also thanks
00:11:23Trump, of course he thanks the president of Argentina, Javier
00:11:26Miley, presenta a Estados Unidos como un lugar donde encuentra la
00:11:29no longer exists in Brazil,
00:11:33y justamente aquí viene la parte de la justicia brasileña,
00:11:37it opens the question,
00:11:40federal court ordered to investigate possible
00:11:44campaign, in particular on alleged
00:11:47vínculos con rock bridge network, es una red
00:11:51current vice president JD Vance.
00:11:55At CNN we contacted the vice president's office, we are waiting for a
00:11:59response and look how interesting, this
00:12:02investigation must determine if there were
00:12:05conversaciones o gestiones para
00:12:08obtain support, foreign funding and
00:12:12other things for the campaign, but of course, all this
00:12:15foreign, in Brazil those contributions
00:12:18prohibited,
00:12:20okay,
00:12:24base of Bolsonarism
00:12:27going to react to this
00:12:30move by Flavio
00:12:33yes, will he be able to maintain support while being far away when his own
00:12:37party does not disavow the
00:12:40result of the election,
00:12:43will he become a distant figure of reference as has happened in other
00:12:46cases, did he win or lose in
00:12:50terms of credibility and
00:12:54y de responsabilidad. como líder que se dice
00:12:56be,
00:12:59now how will this impact Lula's fourth term in terms of international
00:13:02relations, no, the United States,
00:13:06Argentina, I don't know if Ecuador, no, because it was like
00:13:10a stopover country of transit that maybe
00:13:13they weren't well aware of what was happening, but for now
00:13:17Argentina, Milei was very involved in the
00:13:21it is, it's an escape of Flavio Bolsonaro
00:13:25to the United States and of course there must have been coordination
00:13:29and the United States is aware of the whole
00:13:32plan, and
00:13:36Lula is not going to let that pass,
00:13:39well, I think no government would let it pass,
00:13:43ideologies,
00:13:46the context is extremely complicated, but I repeat to you and it is something that no one is talking about and that no one
00:13:49is taking into
00:13:51account,
00:13:55States? And what will happen in two years when Donald
00:13:59Trump leaves, because he has to leave, it's
00:14:03constitucionalmente así está determinado, cuál sería el
00:14:06future of Bolsonaro, because
00:14:09Lula will still be in power when Trump
00:14:13leaves, what will happen to Flavio,
00:14:16of course, it will depend on who wins
00:14:19but he is not
00:14:23guaranteed then. that Lula's entire mandate can be
00:14:26protected. Let's talk about all this, if you like,
00:14:30when I return with my guest who yesterday, by the way, endured the
00:14:33interview I had with my guest from
00:14:36con mi invitado de Ecuador y y Hannah
00:14:39was going to talk to us yesterday, but she saw that it was extended, I asked her to please
00:14:43help us and very kindly Hannah Nelson, who is on screen,
00:14:47understood the situation, accepted, accepted to
00:14:50support us again today, now
00:14:54break. I'll be back with you, this is
00:15:00her.
00:15:07You saw that Sancor Salud Corporate arrived, really? It has
00:15:11good plans, very good ones, team business and
00:15:13enterprise, but it's for any type of
00:15:17modular plans, match point, how can it be, if the
00:15:21game just started, for my company, I mean, okay, did you hear, to keep in mind, right?
00:15:25Yes, but they are all over the country, excuse me for interrupting,
00:15:28yes, they are everywhere and they have the best clinics and sanatoriums,
00:15:32Sancor Salud Corporate has arrived, the comprehensive health solution for all
00:15:35the firm, you too, a new
00:15:39way of caring has arrived, Sancor Salud Corporate, I am a
00:15:42Mexican-British woman, I have been practicing
00:15:46journalism for 20 years, in Mexico City, in the United
00:15:49States and now in Miami for CNN. CNN
00:15:53America is a multiplatform program where you will
00:15:57have information from all fields that will allow you to
00:16:00entender al mundo desde el ángulo que lo estén viendo. En
00:16:04those 3 hours you will not only have information from a
00:16:08political and economic field, but also health,
00:16:12from a women's perspective, but above all it is a space where
00:16:15not to polarize, but to
00:16:19integrar a la
00:16:23me most is to
00:16:25inquire, investigate the why
00:16:29de los hechos, aquí verás lo que hace noticia y todo lo que
00:16:33CNN America with Rebeca
00:16:36Kelly. De lunes viernes en
00:16:38CNN.
00:16:41Do you have 5 minutes? We have five things for
00:16:44you. A podcast with the five most important topics of the
00:16:48día.
00:16:51Here at CNN, news comes first, from decisions made in
00:16:55Washington hasta sus repercusiones en todo Estados
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00:17:02todos los ángulos, directo USA, de lunes viernes en
00:17:05CNN.
00:18:26in the national ranking, a welcome to Hana
00:18:29Nelson, former Undersecretary of Defense of the United States, who is joining me, Hana, thank you very much for being here, especially after yesterday
00:18:33that we asked you to
00:18:36let us extend it. And it was, let's see, we were going to have 2 minutes
00:18:40of chat, we didn't think it was worth it, but you understood the situation well and I thank
00:18:44you very much Fernando and thank you very much for having me again,
00:18:47here
00:18:49with you.
00:18:52No, no, the pleasure is all ours, Hana, this, let's
00:18:55see, let's try to untangle this, Hana, I said it at the beginning of the
00:18:59program, let's see, what is Flavio
00:19:02Bolsonaro today, what is he, is he a political persecute, is
00:19:06he a fugitive from justice, is he a refugee in the United
00:19:09States, how should we define him, because I said
00:19:13technically, if we rely on the
00:19:15ruling of Brazilian
00:19:19fugitive, no,
00:19:22the element of Moraes, of the judge, this
00:19:26que tiene una alineación ideológica evidente con Lula
00:19:29eh, cómo cómo trabajar esta definición, mi
00:19:33in parts, no, eh, to
00:19:36treaty between the United States and
00:19:40Brazil that exists, would
00:19:43what they have
00:19:46unfortunate, but what they have done
00:19:49is the day after the
00:19:52policías afuera de la casa de su papá, Jair
00:19:55Bolsonaro, porque sabían que Flavio iba a visitar su papá
00:19:59y le pidieron a él sus pasaportes, no el
00:20:02Brazilian one and any other
00:20:06idea, with the intention. that he would be in the country while they
00:20:09investigated a money laundering
00:20:12case eh related to a colleague,
00:20:16an acquaintance of his who might have been a
00:20:19financier, a possible financier, so it is not
00:20:22an accusation as such eh, at
00:20:25least not at the moment and eh rather
00:20:28it is an act that can be read in a
00:20:31political way, the supreme judge as you say alexandre de
00:20:35morais who throughout this year has made several
00:20:39decisions that have been read in a political way and that have been a
00:20:42problem for the Brazil-United
00:20:46judge, in his eagerness to want to make sure
00:20:49that... he wanted to investigate Flavio
00:20:52politically gifting, giving a political gift to
00:20:56say that he is
00:20:59a political case,
00:21:02he is being politically
00:21:05left eh that
00:21:08exaggeration, but not entirely true, so
00:21:12he is in the United States allowed
00:21:16by the American government to be there without with...
00:21:20authorization, eh,
00:21:22let's see what will happen in Brazil, if they are going to
00:21:26started
00:21:30recently.
00:21:33Okay, if we take this perspective, according to the
00:21:37analysis you make, Hana, would it be correct
00:21:40to say then that Flavio, if the reading
00:21:43is political, that Flavio
00:21:46States, a political asylum seeker, yes. it
00:21:50could be said in the broadest sense of the word, but
00:21:53yes.
00:21:56Okay, so he would be a political
00:21:59now you touch on something very important, the political interpretation that
00:22:03Moraes's decision to
00:22:07retenerlo dentro del país para poderlo investigar eh con una
00:22:10alineación ideológica por parte de Moraes, porque entonces tengo que
00:22:14entrar con la ideología de derecha y
00:22:16ultraderecha eh de de esta. Estados Unidos y de
00:22:20Argentina, no, este, final de
00:22:23cuentas comparten la misma eh ideología
00:22:27política,
00:22:30what is weighing more
00:22:34here, Jana, eh, the legal
00:22:38legales, las ideologías la
00:22:41struggle between governments
00:22:47that there is an
00:22:51effort to protect
00:22:54right eh, there is an effort to protect, let's say, the people
00:22:58who are the leaders
00:23:02that is clear in the
00:23:05actions of President Milei to
00:23:09candidate Bolsonaro Flavio Bolsonaro
00:23:13de su país más importante
00:23:16la acción de Estados Unidos de permitir que el pueda. de
00:23:20entrar sin sus pasaportes y darle autorización para que esté en
00:23:23Estados Unidos y supongo que también eventualmente poder trabajar
00:23:27eh they did the same with his brother Eduardo Bolsonaro, Eduardo Bolsonaro
00:23:31has an O visa which is
00:23:34con talentos especiales eh
00:23:37y él por eso está y y y con eso está en Estados Unidos,
00:23:41so ideology weighs more, having said that,
00:23:44the United States has not eh, has not reached
00:23:48the level of saying that... who was elected or who won the
00:23:52elections was Flavio
00:23:57the process and simply not saying if
00:24:01they do not recognize Lula, they are not acting
00:24:05against the result as
00:24:13What happens is that obviously the interpretation of receiving Flavio Bolsonaro
00:24:17speaks at that level of.
00:24:20confrontation with Lula, not of disavowal, which is different, Jana says it well, they are
00:24:24result, but they are still
00:24:27confronting Lula's government
00:24:30ideological project. Now, what conflict
00:24:34do you foresee? Let's see, I think that the conflict that will
00:24:37be prolonged is not that concerning, not
00:24:41in Trump- Bolsonaro terms, we
00:24:45know what the rule is there, it is not a matter of pressure
00:24:48with tariffs. it is rather a confrontation that is
00:24:52handled on an economic level where the United States seeks to pressure
00:24:55Brazil, Lula's government and complicate its
00:24:58existence, but Argentina, that is another
00:25:01story, my dear Jana, what complications, besides
00:25:05that, well, the distance between one and the other is very
00:25:08different, if you have them as
00:25:12because ultimately, of course, Milei has Trump's support,
00:25:15but the one who will have to deal with the
00:25:18Lula eh. the one who will have
00:25:22is not exactly in his best moment after the scandal he
00:25:26armó en España, ahora
00:25:28returning to Argentina, he does this in
00:25:30coordination, what do you foresee for the future in this
00:25:34relationship? Yes, and not only that, President Milei also
00:25:38se involucró en las elecciones en Brasil y intentó
00:25:41apoyar abiertamente el candidato Bolsonaro, entonces hay una serie
00:25:45de acciones que él ha tomado con con la idea que sí
00:25:49obviously wanted
00:25:53tanto, obviamente por sus acciones, la relación entre
00:25:57Argentina y Brasil, eh, entonces se ve claramente que
00:26:00aunque sí es el princip. principal socio comercial
00:26:04de Argentina, Brasil lo es, y en el caso de Brasil, Argentina es
00:26:08su segundo más eh, su segunda relación diplomática más
00:26:11importante desde una perspectiva del del
00:26:14Ministerio de Exteriores, por ejemplo, pones primero al embajador en Estados
00:26:18Unidos y después el embajador en Argentina, de ese
00:26:21nivel es el el tamaño de la relación bilateral, claramente el presidente
00:26:25Miley ha decidido que eso no es algo que a él le interese tanto ha
00:26:29significantly reduce. the
00:26:32posibilidad de cooperación entre los dos países, dicho eso, son
00:26:36miembros de Mercosur, hay varias otras estructuras
00:26:39que que requieren que los dos países estén
00:26:42ambassador level, in fact I think that at
00:26:46ese momento no tienen embajadores entre ellos, porque Lula
00:26:49pidió que su embajador regresara para consultas, que es lo
00:26:53primero que uno hace antes de sacar las relaciones diplomáticas
00:26:56en los entre los dos países,
00:27:00Yes, I think the next step
00:27:03from Lula's side at least will be to break
00:27:06they will surely keep the charges of business, which is what
00:27:09normally happens when there are no
00:27:12diplomats on the ground, the last question I
00:27:16ask you, Hana, with this I bid farewell, I
00:27:19say something that is important that I think has not been calculated
00:27:22here and that is the
00:27:25protection for Bolsonaro, whether Trump is there now and Trump will
00:27:29proteger aquí el tiempo que está en la presidencia en 2 años más.
00:27:32less, Trump has to leave. What will
00:27:36de quién llegue la casa blanca demócrata o
00:27:38Republican? Yes, first of all, who
00:27:42gane, cierto, si gana un candidato republicano lo mismo que
00:27:45tenemos ahorita, es lo que va a continuar siendo, eh, va haber
00:27:49protección de de grupos ideológicos de derecha,
00:27:52because it is eh,
00:27:55we suppose that the
00:27:59pro Trump, no, sea quien sea. Ahora, si gana.
00:28:02lo un candidato demócrata
00:28:05eh el proceso de de visas eh
00:28:08dado tanto a Eduardo cuanto a Flavio sí es
00:28:11cuestionable, entonces no me sorprendería que un
00:28:15gobierno demócrata revise las
00:28:18decisiones relacionadas a la
00:28:21migration, the visas of those
00:28:24are here
00:28:28protected, so to speak, but
00:28:31yes, I'm not surprised. If a Democratic candidate wins the elections in two
00:28:35years, decides to review those
00:28:37decisions,
00:28:40of course, and to reverse the decisions, that's
00:28:44the, that's another thing. Lula
00:28:47will still be in power, so Trump's mandate is not enough for Flavio to
00:28:51remain protected until Lula leaves. Lula will still be in power. That will
00:28:54be interesting when we get there. We'll cross that bridge when we
00:28:58come to it. For now, Jana, thank you so much as always for really being here and for
00:29:02the... I really appreciate it very much, thank
00:29:05you very much, it's always a pleasure.
00:29:08The pleasure is all ours. Have a great night, Hanna Nelson, former Deputy Assistant
00:29:14me. I'm going to take a break, I'll be back. Listen, the
00:29:17mega election of June 2027 in
00:29:20Mexico is coming,
00:29:23well, what can I tell you, not the scandal,
00:29:27catastrophe, the most serious
00:29:30catastrophe that could have occurred at the INE, at the National
00:29:34Electoral Institute with Guadalupe Tadeila,
00:29:37former, now former president of the electoral body. I'm
00:29:40going to tell you everything that happened and why it happened, but
00:29:44the INE, the INE is upside down today and
00:29:47the elections, the elections are coming.
00:30:24Live from Mexico
00:30:26City,
00:30:29one story can change everything. A look
00:30:32at the reconstruction efforts of a city and the hope of a people
00:30:36determined to rise up. It evolved very quickly and we never thought
00:30:40it would become a category five. And to understand what
00:30:43is happening, let's go to my colleague Ione Molinares in
00:30:47Washington.