Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00land since history is
00:00:03history, since history is
00:00:07history, it's called land rent, meaning
00:00:11that those who own forests
00:00:15make people work, you have a forest
00:00:18area, it belongs to you, you are a landowner, you
00:00:22bring in the the capitalists who
00:00:26come to develop your forest beyond the
00:00:29taxes and... what they pay to the state, they pay you
00:00:33land rent, and that's the production
00:00:36sharing, President Sassou didn't
00:00:40talk about land rent, he talks about
00:00:43production sharing, but that means land
00:00:47rent, when the forest intelligentsia
00:00:50sits down, looks and says what does he mean,
00:00:54he he encounters in history and and in my
00:00:57and in my book, I've given indications on the
00:01:01countries that have agricultural land
00:01:04six chapters, rent regimes and in our country this
00:01:08regime has already taken place, what happens when there were large
00:01:11concessionary companies, these
00:01:14the companies worked uh and they
00:01:17returned to the French
00:01:20public treasury, you'll say why French, but
00:01:23we were not the Republic of Congo, we were
00:01:27French colonies, it was French territory, hmm hmm, they
00:01:30returned to the territory and rather to the
00:01:33French public treasury 15 % of their turnover,
00:01:37yes, it was the
00:01:39rent,
00:01:42exactly, and so the traceability that I'm
00:01:45allowing myself to do, is to show all these
00:01:49scenarios around the world to say if we
00:01:52want to make production sharing contracts as the President
00:01:56said, we must establish land rent.
00:02:00in forestry exploitation in Congo and perhaps in the Congo Basin
00:02:04and the three basins Mr.
00:02:07metaphor, the dictate of Kanga, what place do local populations occupy
00:02:09in these forest contracts? ah
00:02:13madam, when the forced
00:02:16round comes, I'll give you a case, maybe I should give
00:02:19cases so that so that everyone
00:02:22understands, not just us, even those who follow us, also understand how it works, when
00:02:25when the current exploitation, yes
00:02:28when for the general interest, it's always for the general interest that we
00:02:32classify a forest, when we classify a
00:02:35forest, this forest belonged first to
00:02:39landowners here and there, because we take an entire
00:02:43area, for example when you take the Ngombé forest, it's
00:02:46one million of of of Ngombé, so it must be exploited by
00:02:50if 1 million hectares yes, do you see, so
00:02:54he has landowners, meaning that in
00:02:57the exploitation for the rent, we... must know
00:03:01who is a hunter, who is a fisherman, do you not know that
00:03:05there are people, populations,
00:03:07diversity through this great gathering of peasants who organize collective fishing, they
00:03:10organize fishing because they are owners of large
00:03:13fishing ponds, President Sassou
00:03:16himself, Angolo Doua, he has
00:03:19ponds, he organizes fishing, he has
00:03:23seasons, because he is a landowner of these
00:03:26ponds left by uh uh uh
00:03:30uh his grandparents, so the question you
00:03:36in the service of ask, when we enter the regime of
00:03:39production sharing, the
00:03:42populations who have historical or political
00:03:46rights regarding the forest, because land ownership
00:03:49allows you to know, studies allow you to
00:03:53all know who is a resident of the village,
00:03:56who is a landowner? who is not?
00:04:00who is a farmer? who is not? and so
00:04:04on, we should
00:04:06henceforth
00:04:08when we take and classify a forest, we should henceforth have
00:04:12uh
00:04:14the list of all these people who had
00:04:18land rights in this forest and make sure
00:04:22that when the land rent is
00:04:24paid, then they get their
00:04:28percentage, well, I... come to the famous forest
00:04:31rent, the 2020 forest code talks about it since the forest
00:04:35code has a part reserved for resource sharing contracts, what
00:04:39is your assessment of the existing forest code since the President spoke in
00:04:432016, the forest code was passed in 2020, what is your assessment of the
00:04:46forest code? Well Mr. Journalist, I don't
00:04:50know, yes
00:04:51state, a photo where he is sitting next to a uh I have
00:04:55read the forest code you are talking about, so it is law 33/2020
00:04:59absolutely.
00:05:06I have read law 33
00:05:0938 2024.
00:05:12of 11 uh October I think
00:05:152024 concerning the production
00:05:19sharing regime, yes, but I haven't seen, I haven't yet
00:05:22encountered the concept of land
00:05:25rent as it is called, land rent, but it
00:05:29does the sharing, is it a problem of concept or is it a problem of practice since
00:05:32the concept can be, can, can be, we can use a synonym concept, do
00:05:36you absolutely want us to use the concept of rent or can we use its
00:05:40synonym? Well, but you have to be careful, Mr.
00:05:43we are managing a
00:05:46sector that we are
00:05:49not alone in, yes, in this
00:05:52sector, farmers live there,
00:05:56fishermen live there, okay, artists live
00:06:00there, everyone lives there,
00:06:03hunters, so when we
00:06:07reflect, we must be a little more
00:06:11precise. So that everyone, you
00:06:14asked me to speak for everyone, absolutely, exactly,
00:06:18so that everyone understands, but I will take what you say,
00:06:22yes, you will find in this law that you cite,
00:06:24yes, law 33,
00:06:27yes, it lays down the principle
00:06:31of production sharing, it
00:06:33says, we share all the production, uh,
00:06:37that the forestry operator
00:06:39accumulated during a calendar year. H. This
00:06:43is the principle, law 38
00:06:462024 H, which
00:06:49comes to share the productions,
00:06:53okay, so it comes as if to implement the forestry
00:06:56code, yes, this law, uh, uh,
00:07:00suffers from a flaw, this law suffers,
00:07:03it talks uh, I don't
00:07:07have the articles, it talks about first sharing, there are
00:07:10three or two levels of sharing. Ah, well, it starts from the first
00:07:13sharing, 15 % of the product on the
00:07:17ground, so what can be assimilated a
00:07:21bit to land rent,
00:07:25do you understand me? So it's not the same thing, no, since it says
00:07:2815 % of the right to the soil, it's it's it's the same
00:07:32thing in a way, but uh,
00:07:35but the concept of land rent does not appear, attention,
00:07:39attention, it does not appear, yes, the concept does not appear.
00:07:46Because when the concept doesn't appear, you can't find
00:07:50the theory that brought this concept into the world, you can find the
00:07:53equivalent concept, but then what is the
00:07:56theory?
00:08:02What is the theory in this law? This law has no
00:08:05theory that accompanies the sharing. This law also
00:08:09says this: after we have given the state 15
00:08:13% of the right to the soil, this law has adopted an equalization
00:08:16in it, I could demonstrate that to you but it's long,
00:08:20equalization in it up to 40
00:08:23%, meaning if the company
00:08:27has a turnover of this, it gives
00:08:3020 %. If the company has a turnover of this
00:08:34and that, I'm exaggerating the law a bit, go ahead, and then up to
00:08:3840 %, you take for example a forestry
00:08:42company that has a turnover that allows it to give even more
00:08:46than 15 % of the right to the soil, to give another 40 %
00:08:49of its production uh to the landowners,
00:08:53so to the state, you
00:08:56calculate if you take 15 % plus
00:08:5940 % you are at how much already? 15 % + 40, h,
00:09:0355 % you are at 55, yes, to give to the
00:09:06landowner, but the operator has
00:09:10paid you taxes and everything that is ordinary today,
00:09:14the forestry taxation in question, if you
00:09:16also convert that into a share, because you
00:09:20haven't reimbursed them, because there are clauses, because there are
00:09:24theories, when we do production sharing, the operator must
00:09:27be reimbursed for all the expenses he has
00:09:30incurred,
00:09:32the operator must, we do not share the production
00:09:36of logs, not at all, I told you, there are what we
00:09:40call forest roads, that is... damages and
00:09:43losses caused to to to the forest by
00:09:47the exploiter, by the exploiter, that we give a
00:09:50market value and it is this market value that
00:09:53the exploiter uh programs in his budget and
00:09:57that he pays to the landowners in the form of
00:10:00land rent, that's the sharing, Mr.
00:10:04Ondélé, do you think that a reform of forest
00:10:07contracts is still possible and why
00:10:11not? Because you have already stopped the republic,
00:10:15have you already stopped the republic? Why not? But
00:10:19but I'm talking about it, I'm jealous of what's
00:10:22happening, about jealousy, sir, you are a manager
00:10:25Yeah, what's your show called? in the house, you are a manager of water and forests, etcetera, you are a manager of the ministry,
00:10:27what have you done? Is that a way for you to say "oh, it's not me,
00:10:31it's the others," since you are the one who should actually, yet
00:10:35you are there, yet you are there yourself, you come to milk others to say "oh no, it's not me."
00:10:41Motamou? You went into the motam. Yes, yes, it's
00:10:44really the motam, but Mr. Journalist, it's
00:10:48been 10 years since I've been out of this house. But
00:10:52no, you're an expert in forest governance, how to make all
00:10:55this evolve, since the forest code exists, it's not applied, the president talked about
00:10:592007, it's not evolving, now as an expert in forest governance,
00:11:02what do you propose for it to evolve, because the country needs
00:11:06money, I'm going to say it clearly like that, the economy needs to turn,
00:11:09but Mr. Journalist, yes, what does the writer do, the writer
00:11:13anticipates situations, yes,
00:11:17the writer dreams and says,
00:11:19no, but you're not, you proposed some solutions? Exactly,
00:11:23exactly, ah, this
00:11:26book has
00:11:29yes, I'm reading six chapters, yes, the
00:11:33first chapter uh, I try
00:11:36to talk about genesis of
00:11:39epistemological thought,
00:11:42absolutely, you don't talk about that,
00:11:44the genesis of epistemological
00:11:47thought, yes, it's already, it's very complicated, epistemological
00:11:51thought, there are some who don't understand, especially those who follow us at home, yeah, what does that
00:11:55mean in simple terms, but uh
00:11:59if you are uh at home
00:12:01or you go to the village, you buy a generator
00:12:04yes, you want to light up the village, what do you
00:12:08do? After the generator, what do you do? You
00:12:12buy cables, yes, which must conduct the current,
00:12:15and then you arrive uh uh at
00:12:19the switches or whatever, you pass the lights, the light bulbs in the
00:12:23houses, that's it,
00:12:27the dictate of the ball, it's a
00:12:32the ball resembles this
00:12:33generator, and the epistemological-forestry
00:12:37conception resembles this economic
00:12:41theory, this economic theory, that is, it's the
00:12:45cable that conducts the current and the production
00:12:49sharing contracts, that's the end, okay, well,
00:12:53you're not just a writer, you're also an expert, you've worked, you're also, you're
00:12:56a manager perhaps of water and forests, you've worked for the Ministry of Forestry Affairs, haven't
00:13:00you? It's been 10 years since you were fired, that's what you said, it's been 10 years since you were
00:13:04fired, is uh in this book,
00:13:07Mr. Ondel is saying, well, in any case, you were wrong to fire me,
00:13:11I can propose many things, no
00:13:14uh no so I don't
00:13:16have maybe this book will be
00:13:20contested by those who govern,
00:13:23maybe this book will be contested. by those who want,
00:13:26I'm waiting, hm hm, you are the journalists who
00:13:29should after reading my
00:13:32book, after because in this
00:13:35book, I take the law that exists, okay, everything I
00:13:39tell you, I I I make these
00:13:42similarities in the book to demonstrate that
00:13:45if that law is applied, if Mr. Journalist, I'm going to tell
00:13:49you the word, if that law is applied,
00:13:53yes, by December 31st,
00:13:56there will be, there will be, there will be, there will be, if that law
00:14:00is applied, in 2026 there will be no more forestry companies here.
00:14:04Oh, really? Well, yes, but if the
00:14:07landowner manages to take 62
00:14:10%, the company has almost nothing, it's the one who has to pay
00:14:14people's salaries, it's the one who has to bear
00:14:18of it. The landowner, just with his right of
00:14:22land ownership, he takes his
00:14:242 %, what's left for? That means it won't work.
00:14:28We'll be crazy. What's left for the forestry operator?
00:14:32That's what that law, the profile of the existing law,
00:14:36that's it. Oh, really? Oh, yes, the
00:14:39profile of the law that exists now, the one you propose, how is it?
00:14:43Huh? The law you propose, your land rent, how is it? I didn't
00:14:46propose the law in the book, no.
00:14:50I proposed, yes, uh, uh,
00:14:53the approach. Certain approaches
00:14:57to take, it's there in the 2nd chapter, I see it here,
00:15:00it's there in the 2nd chapter, here, I see it here, governance prerequisites, in order
00:15:04to properly administer the national forestry sector under the production
00:15:07sharing regime, the separation of traditional sectors, (in parentheses, exploitation and
00:15:11transformation) is usefully necessary, followed
00:15:15by the creation of other sectors such as environmental forestry,
00:15:19the rural exotics of forest goods and services, administrative forestry
00:15:22decentralization and so on, sectors and so on, so here you propose the
00:15:25prerequisites, the governance prerequisites, but you took that in the middle, yes, but
00:15:29I'm taking the prerequisites, prerequisites of governance, that's what
00:15:33it's called, uh, governance prerequisites.
00:15:36Exactly, no, it's called prerequisite recommendations, yes,
00:15:39but here it says prerequisite governance, yes, this is the
00:15:43last one, yes, so I say if we want, if
00:15:46a country, because my problem, the problem of this
00:15:50book is to make production sharing
00:15:53contracts accessible, meaning
00:15:57that people understand
00:16:00what is meant by production sharing contracts in the forestry
00:16:04sector, yes, and that people who have
00:16:08such as the Congo Basin, we are members of the Congo
00:16:11Basin, people who have forests, so what
00:16:15I call the owner states, that the owner states
00:16:19manage
00:16:21to initiate the use of production sharing
00:16:25contracts in the Congo Basin and in the three basins,
00:16:29it's a revolution, an
00:16:33economic renaissance of
00:16:35forestry.
00:16:39I'm speaking here as a writer, okay, as a manager
00:16:42also on this
00:16:46question, writing a book without being a manager
00:16:49somewhere, of course, oh, oh, of course, you can
00:16:52do research, yes, oh, you can do research, the one who does research
00:16:56is zero, I didn't say zero, but you're an in-house manager, the
00:17:00problem the one who does
00:17:04research, what you described in this book, you were among the managers who
00:17:07managed this ministry, yes, exactly, that means you didn't really
00:17:11work, you are part of the people who failed there at the ministry since it hasn't been applied for 10 years, if this failure is
00:17:15collective, I take my share, but then it will be
00:17:19individual because and it's not
00:17:22me who makes the decisions,
00:17:24exactly, if the failure is
00:17:27given it's like what I told you, if
00:17:31the popular vindication
00:17:35and all that, we are all involved in it. Yes, but maybe
00:17:38there are thieves who steal money, maybe there isn't, it's a problem
00:17:42of reference, maybe there isn't, there's a problem of reform. Listen,
00:17:45maybe, yes, but when the population says that,
00:17:49you who are all in this box, you are confused as
00:17:52thieves. Exactly, but if you are also a manager of this
00:17:56house and you hear these cries from the heart and you
00:18:00must question yourself to to reflect. Exactly,
00:18:04Mr. Kanga, regarding this book, I
00:18:38you learn it today, Socrates never
00:18:41wrote, Socrates never wrote, all his teaching
00:18:45was oral, yes, the whole world talks about Socrates,
00:18:48recognized Socrates as a great
00:18:52philosopher,
00:18:56President Sassou Nguesso talks about production
00:19:00sharing contracts in rural areas, meaning mines
00:19:03and forests, because he stopped there. This means he's a head of state, he was
00:19:07advised by someone, he's a head of state, but you're not going to ask the
00:19:11president who advised you, that's it, when
00:19:14you advise a president, so when he said something, you go somewhere
00:19:18to say it's me who advised him, it's President Sassou Nguesso
00:19:22who said it, okay,
00:19:24before him, no one said
00:19:27that, okay,
00:19:29that's why, out of intellectual
00:19:33honesty, I wanted to
00:19:36share his thought,
00:19:39because I come in this book to theorize,
00:19:43to uh uh trace what he said, but
00:19:47the thought, it's his thought, very well, sir, are you looking for a
00:19:50favor in return? No, what favor, sir,
00:19:54what favor? The writer doesn't look for favor, because that's become the current
00:19:57technique, huh, no, it's called an approach technique, no, he's doing
00:20:01that because he wants to attract the president, he's attracting attention, yeah, if you take the
00:20:05photos of... meetings and everything to say that maybe
00:20:08no, but you have a question about the
00:20:11photo? A question about the photo because we'll have the impression that it's a book from the
00:20:15presidency since it has the official photo of the president, it will cause confusion,
00:20:18even I, when I saw the book, I said to myself, well, this is perhaps a book written by the
00:20:22presidency's service since it is a official photo, why
00:20:25this choice? We could take another photo of the head of
00:20:29garden somewhere, but you take the official photo, hm hm, the
00:20:33portrait of the head of state, okay, well, that's the photo I
00:20:36found that was best, hm, and I thought that's
00:20:39the one I should use, and I even asked, I even asked the
00:20:43publishing house, yes, I said, I choose that photo, it's the official
00:20:47photo, is it a problem for you who
00:20:51publish in the world? Is there
00:20:54a problem? Will I encounter difficulties? They
00:20:58said no. Before finishing, where can we find this book? The book is
00:21:01sold, yes, on the global platform,
00:21:05hm, Amazon, yes, Amazon, exactly,
00:21:09how much is it? Just uh
00:21:11for it, the prices are there
00:21:15uh the price of the book is set by the publishing house and
00:21:19not by the author. I see here 20.5 € in
00:21:22Africa it's 2000 CFA francs exactly outside Africa it's
00:21:2535.5 € exactly okay thank you very much
00:21:29okay if someone needs the book they can contact me at the
00:21:33number and and then I'll give them the Amazon link they
00:21:37can also contact us they can contact our show and we'll pass
00:21:40on the number my number is 06 yes
00:21:44545 yes 75
00:21:48yes 60 So ladies and gentlemen, we have
00:21:52reached the end of our show, thank you very much to Mr. André Andelio Kanga for
00:21:55accepting our invitation, it was really good here, he talked about his three
00:21:59books uh which are mainly concerned with the management of
00:22:02forest governance, thank you therefore to the technical teams, thank you to
00:22:06Soleil Kunga who was on camera, Spera and Bata also behind the camera, thank
00:22:10you very much, Mr. Handeli, to conclude, uh the
00:22:13forestry sector only contributes 4 % to the national GDP, only contributes 4 %
00:22:17compared to the latest figures, uh and... you as
00:22:20an expert in forest governance, what can we do as
00:22:24a last message to improve, to make these figures evolve? If we apply
00:22:28the rent, hm hm, if we apply the
00:22:31forest land rent, okay, we will go from 20 to
00:22:3530 %. Thank you very much, if we apply the forest rent,
00:22:39the land rent, we will reach 10, 20,
00:22:4230 % and then that will contribute to the development of the economy, thank
00:22:45you very much, well, we're at the end, we're at the end, the why was already developed here, thank
00:22:49you very much. Love is every Saturday at 9 p.m. on Télécongo.
00:23:14Moni songela meat papa maméni
00:23:18tukisa eat.
00:23:23Come many, attend the biggest cultural event of the year
00:23:27dedicated to "la sape" with the 10th edition of the
00:23:31International "Sape" Festival which will be held on Saturday
00:23:34August 22, 2026 at 2 p.m. in Madingou, chief
00:23:38town of the Bouenza department,
00:23:39patronage
00:23:46of Denongo, prefect of the Bouenza department. This year
00:23:50a tribute will be paid to Sojola, celebrating
00:23:54together cultural Congolese "sape."
00:23:58Around the theme, I love Bouenza
00:24:02in the literal sense. July 8,
00:24:162023, July 8, 2022. 3 years
00:24:20of commitment, of construction and mobilization
00:24:26the engineering profession. The
00:24:29mandate of the first national council of the Order of
00:24:32Engineers of Congo is coming to an
00:24:35end. On Saturday, August 8,
00:24:382026, at 9 a.m., at
00:24:41the Hilton Tower Jumell, the Order of
00:24:44Engineers of Congo will hold its first
00:24:48general assembly and electoral,
00:24:51engineers registered with the Order, you
00:24:55are all invited, your presence is a
00:24:58duty, together
00:25:01let's renew the governing bodies of our
00:25:04institution, under the high patronage of the
00:25:08Vice-Prime Minister, the
00:25:10elected president will be officially
00:25:13sworn into office,
00:25:17engineers registered with the Order,
00:25:20Let's mobilize, the engineer at the heart of
00:25:24the development of Congo, long live the
00:25:27Republic of Congo, long live
00:25:30the OIC,
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00:28:32The devils of Kormongo, Saint-Pierre,
00:28:36Minister
00:28:37Delegate,
00:28:41Princess Micro Kabambo.
00:28:56August 7, 2026, 2:30 PM at Monka Makua stadium.
00:28:58makua.
00:29:34Are you an Ecobank Congo customer? Bozala already Yaco
00:29:37Sepela. And yes, before, to make your
00:29:40deposit, you had to go to a branch. Now,
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00:29:48queues, no need to go to a branch to make your
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00:29:5924 hours a day, 7 days a week, even on weekends
00:30:02and public holidays. No forms to fill out, plus, it's
00:30:05instant. Your money goes into your account directly at
00:30:09the end of the operation. To make your deposit, it's simple: 1.
00:30:13Go to an Ecobank ATM. 2. From the menu, choose
00:30:16the "Cash Express" option. 3. Click on "Deposit". 4. Enter
00:30:20your full name and follow the instructions. To consult the list of deposit ATMs
00:30:23near you and for more information, contact our customer
00:30:27service at 05 802 01
00:30:30000.