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00:00:47can put the entire
00:00:56Hello, welcome to the world from the south,
00:01:00Caracas, Venezuela, today talking about a topic that, of course, has marked
00:01:03the news dynamic in recent days, the
00:01:06Brazilian government rejected this Tuesday the decision
00:01:10of the United States to modify the visa of its
00:01:13ambassador in Washington, Maria Lucía Aviotti. Brasília interpreted
00:01:16the fact as a political retaliation and denounced a deliberate
00:01:20escalation by the White House for ideological reasons and with a clear
00:01:24intention to interfere in an electoral process in Brazil,
00:01:28from the executive led by.
00:01:31Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva called the justifications presented by the
00:01:35Donald Trump administration false. Let's
00:01:36el Sur," today talking about analyze this diplomatic pulse of
00:01:40Brazil against Washington's pressures and threats, which seeks electoral
00:01:43interference, according to analysts in that South American
00:01:46giant. But before the analysis, we remind you, through
00:01:50social networks, throughout the day we surveyed the opinion of our
00:01:53users, some of you have already participated, however, here is the
00:01:56QR code, in case you haven't done so, so you can participate. The
00:02:00question says, the United States revokes the visa of the Brazilian ambassador and
00:02:04strains diplomatic relations with the South American giant, what
00:02:07does this action by Washington respond to? There are the options, we
00:02:11invite you to participate
00:02:13responds, as we said, to now, your opinion is
00:02:13important.
00:02:22Let's go straight to the analysis, I am joined remotely by Roberto Gular
00:02:25Meneces, professor at the Institute of International Relations of the
00:02:29University. Brasília, thank you very much for your time with
00:02:32us, welcome to Telesur and El Mundo desde el
00:02:45first about what this represents, not in
00:02:49diplomatic terms, because the country that
00:02:52sends an ambassador consults first with the receiving
00:02:55nation of the candidacy before formally
00:02:59submitting the request. And ask for the agrément, as it is called, for their ambassador
00:03:02candidate. The United States, with this, skips that
00:03:06procedure. What to say about this whole impasse from a diplomatic
00:03:09point of view?
00:03:13For Brazil, it is
00:03:16an aggression against its sovereignty
00:03:18and also its independence, because
00:03:22the United States, the Trump government, tried to
00:03:26impose diplomatic considerations
00:03:28without considering the Vienna Convention
00:03:32of 1961 on diplomatic relations.
00:03:35The United States is disrespecting
00:03:40part of the difficulty Brazil, so eh, on June
00:03:431st, Trump went to his social network and announced
00:03:47that Daniel Pérez would become the new ambassador
00:03:51of the United States in Brazil, but, as
00:03:54the '61 convention states, it is
00:03:57necessary that a
00:04:00consultation process with the Brazilian government
00:04:04begin first, in a discreet manner,
00:04:07so it is not public, so
00:04:09that later, once Brazil confirms
00:04:13his name, in Daniel Pérez's case, then
00:04:17it becomes public that he will be an ambassador. So
00:04:20for Brazil, it's a very serious attack. No
00:04:24doubt, this was said amidst diplomatic tensions by the President
00:04:27of Brazil, Ignacio Lula da Silva. He strongly criticized
00:04:30Washington's stance regarding the sending of its ambassador
00:04:34and demanded mutual respect towards his country. This is what
00:04:37he said, let's listen.
00:04:41The United States did not attach importance to its embassy in Brazil because for a year and
00:04:45a half, they have been in power and have not sent their representative
00:04:48here, and now they are trying to send one and they believe that we are obliged to accept it on the
00:04:52date they want. That is not correct or possible. We
00:04:56want to be treated with respect, with
00:04:59respect. There was the Brazilian president,
00:05:02Roberto, the timing is no coincidence. It is
00:05:05evident, eh, the unjustified interest of the United States in
00:05:09interfering in the next presidential elections, so says
00:05:13the Brazilian government, and well, a practice that has been seen in other
00:05:16countries in the region, your reading.
00:05:20Yes, because the United States, since it began
00:05:23its tariffs against Brazil, was
00:05:26understood, it was understood that at that first
00:05:29moment there was a central issue that was economic,
00:05:33commercial, but then the United States
00:05:37declared Trump's
00:05:40support for Flavio Bolsonaro,
00:05:43who is, of course, the son of Jair
00:05:47Bolsonaro, who is currently in prison,
00:05:50under house arrest. So this
00:05:54search by Trump for protagonism in the elections
00:05:58in Brazil, we know that it
00:06:01has been growing and that now
00:06:05with this measure, Trump by sending an
00:06:08ambassador Daniel Pérez,
00:06:12by trying to make Daniel Pérez take over the embassy
00:06:16in Brazil before the elections, this
00:06:20could even mean that the embassy will be
00:06:23used to attack or try to influence
00:06:26the Brazilian political process. So
00:06:30Brazil Lula said this morning
00:06:33that no
00:06:36no ambassador
00:06:38will have his credentials before the
00:06:42end, before the elections in Brazil
00:06:45close, by the end of
00:06:49next October, and with that, the process
00:06:52seems to me suspended. So
00:06:56Brazil has to be very attentive, the Brazilian authorities,
00:06:59the different powers, because
00:07:03Trump tries in some way to
00:07:07interfere in the elections in
00:07:09Brazil, no doubt and... He has commented
00:07:13again that this is part of a political retaliation,
00:07:17taking into account the proximity of the United States to Jair
00:07:21Bolsonaro and of course in the next elections,
00:07:24we even saw polls of Brazilians
00:07:27saying that the Bolsonaro family is responsible
00:07:29for the tariffs imposed by the government
00:07:33of the United States. How is Brazil, Roberto, going into these elections,
00:07:37taking into account this whole scenario and, of course, the tension, not
00:07:40only diplomatic but also with?
00:08:12elections, so 40, 50 countries
00:08:16had already recognized
00:08:19Lula as president-elect of
00:08:22Brazil. This includes the seven countries
00:08:26of the G7 group, with that, even beyond
00:08:30the G7, China, and with
00:08:33that, later we had other
00:08:36attacks on democracy in Brazil
00:08:40and that resulted in an attempt. An attempted
00:08:43coup on January
00:08:468, 2023,
00:08:49and now, with all
00:08:52we have in 2022, now
00:08:55this may also have another element, of course,
00:08:59which is the Trump government, because Trump has already declared
00:09:03his support for
00:09:07candidate Flavio Bolsonaro, and with
00:09:10that, Trump may. until
00:09:13the elections in Brazil in
00:09:16October next,
00:09:20try to impose other difficulties
00:09:23on the Brazilian government, so Brazil is on
00:09:26alert, the Brazilian government, the electoral
00:09:30authorities too, because we know that
00:09:33the United States has resources, it has means to
00:09:37influence the political process in some
00:09:39way, so this is the great
00:09:43difference between 2022 and now
00:09:46is that Trump is determined
00:09:49to follow up, he can
00:09:52also make some movement
00:09:55or some actions that can, with that,
00:09:59hinder the Brazilian political process, as
00:10:03you said, there is an alert and President Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva
00:10:06precisely said that the state must be prepared to
00:10:10face any threat, he said.
00:10:25from outside that wants to interfere in our electoral process. There is something that
00:10:29needs to be clear, I have said many times when I spoke with President Trump
00:10:32that we are two men of 80 years old, we are presidents of
00:10:36two of the most important democracies in the region and therefore
00:10:40we must transmit to the people who live in our region sobriety
00:10:43and to the world that needs it so much, serenity
00:10:46and responsibility. And well, speaking of responsibility,
00:10:50Roberto, the President of
00:10:54Brazil, well... mentioned all this issue, but also
00:10:57the other
00:11:00side is how that situation and that
00:11:04decision to also downgrade relations with Argentina, taking into account
00:11:07the statements of President Javier Milei. What can you say about
00:11:11this situation and how it is affecting diplomatic relations between both countries?
00:11:15Yes, Francisco, since his government began, Milei
00:11:18has not had a single meeting with
00:11:21Lula. It's also Milei, whenever he can.
00:11:25The Brazilian government attacks Brazil, and now
00:11:29President Lula, when in the first
00:11:32attacks of Milei when he was here in
00:11:36Brazilian territory, as he was here 10 days ago
00:11:39in Brazilian territory, he made many attacks against
00:11:43the government, against President Lula, against authorities, the
00:11:46judiciary, against other Brazilian
00:11:50authorities, and the Brazilian government presented
00:11:53its protest
00:11:56to the Argentine ambassador in Brazil,
00:12:00but after a couple of days passed,
00:12:03Milei returned to attack President Lula
00:12:07and the authorities, and even
00:12:10said that Brazil has an orchestrated
00:12:13campaign against Argentina, and for
00:12:16this fact, the Brazilian government took an unprecedented
00:12:20measure in relation to Argentina,
00:12:23with which Brazil has a strategic partnership,
00:12:27but, at this moment,
00:12:29by downgrading its relations with Argentina,
00:12:33this implies that the Argentine
00:12:37ambassador in Brazil has to return to
00:12:40Argentina and the Brazilian ambassador, who is already
00:12:43in Brasília, will not return
00:12:47to Buenos Aires for the time being. With that, the
00:12:50relations between Brazil and Argentina are
00:12:54restricted to trade and economy.
00:12:57This is very bad for us, for both Brazil
00:13:00and Argentina, but Brazil has to take some
00:13:04action to demand respect from Milei,
00:13:07because Milei has
00:13:11a way of conducting
00:13:14relations between the two countries that is
00:13:17purely ideological
00:13:20and that also by disrespecting the
00:13:23president of the Republic, he is disrespecting
00:13:27Brazil, and with that, Brazil
00:13:31does not want to completely sacrifice
00:13:34its relations with Argentina, but it also
00:13:38does not have to allow something of
00:13:40that type. No doubt, very attentive to this whole
00:13:44scenario and taking into account, as we said, a sensitive
00:13:48moment for democracy in Brazil, upcoming elections in this
00:13:51Latin American country. Roberto, thank you very much for your time with us, for
00:13:55your insight.
00:13:59Talking to you and all your audience,
00:14:01Francisco, well, there we have then
00:14:05the analysis around all
00:14:09this topic, I remind the audience that you have time to participate in the
00:14:12poll that we have published on our social networks, at
00:14:16the end of our broadcast we will analyze the results, let's take a short break
00:14:20and we will invite our guest Roberto to stay with us, to continue talking
00:14:24about this topic. With Argentina and what this represents, not
00:14:27for both countries, we'll be right back.
00:17:10Thank you for following us in "El Mundo desde
00:17:14the situation, the diplomatic
00:17:17impasse between Brazil and the United States, but also about
00:17:20Argentina, because the diplomatic fracture between both
00:17:24countries, after the insults received by President Luis Ignacio
00:17:27Lula da Silva, from his Argentine counterpart Javier Milei, the
00:17:31Brazilian Foreign Ministry announced the withdrawal of its ambassador Julio
00:17:34Bitelli in Buenos Aires. Brazil decides
00:17:37to escalate diplomatic tension, limiting its
00:17:40representation to the commercial sphere, reducing the
00:17:44link to the level of chargé d'affaires. The measure by the Ministry
00:17:48of Foreign Relations of Brazil
00:17:51repeated verbal attacks, the political
00:17:54support of President Javier Milei for the Brazilian
00:17:57opposition, who also referred to Lula as a thief, as a
00:18:01corrupt person, something that has obviously been categorically
00:18:04rejected by Brazil. The Argentine Foreign
00:18:07Ministry describes the decision as unilateral and regretted
00:18:10that Brazil isolates itself for ideological reasons,
00:18:14maintaining that bilateral relations should not be made
00:18:17subject to political or personal interests of the rulers,
00:18:20Argentina has said regarding all
00:18:24this issue, contrary to what Javier Milei said at the time
00:18:27about the Argentine president and all the
00:18:31improprieties he made towards
00:18:34the Brazilian ruler. This is part of the analysis.
00:18:37I had said goodbye to Roberto at the time, Roberto, but
00:18:41we have you with us again, thank you very much for being
00:18:45here to analyze this topic, Roberto Gular Meneces, professor at the Institute of
00:18:48International Relations at the University of Brasília. Let's talk precisely about this,
00:18:52you already anticipated something, but I wanted to delve a little deeper because this
00:18:56diplomatic crisis between Brazil and Argentina reaches unprecedented
00:18:59levels, not since the return of democracy for both Argentina and
00:19:03Brazil, but it is an issue that we said goes beyond diplomacy,
00:19:06it has to do with trade, security,
00:19:10other issues that can also affect the continent,
00:19:13how do you see the impact
00:19:15on the whole region, because this is obviously unprecedented? Yes, Francisco,
00:19:19because, Argentina with Javier Milei,
00:19:23since his government began, also had
00:19:26a disagreement with Mercosur,
00:19:30and the Brazilian government since December
00:19:332023 has been living
00:19:36with Javier Milei and seeks to conduct
00:19:40relations from the Brazilian state with the Argentine
00:19:43state. However, with the economic crisis
00:19:46in Argentina, the Brazilian government also continued working
00:19:50as much as possible through a very strong
00:19:54pragmatism with the Argentine authorities.
00:19:58In the most recent period,
00:20:02we had the signing of the Mercosur-European Union agreement,
00:20:05so for Mercosur, it is very important that it remains
00:20:09united, cohesive to be able to continue
00:20:12negotiating, working with the European Union, but
00:20:16the fact is that Javier Milei recently
00:20:19announced an individual agreement
00:20:22with his country and the United States,
00:20:26and Lula, at the last Mercosur summit now in
00:20:30Asunción, asked that the Mercosur countries
00:20:34negotiate with
00:20:38China. So this stance
00:20:41of Javier Milei tends to complicate the
00:20:45functioning of Mercosur, this is also
00:20:48expressed in the most recent economic
00:20:52relations between Brazil and Argentina, because this
00:20:55year in the first half of 2026,
00:20:57Brasília has already
00:21:00reduced its exports to Argentina by about
00:21:0320%, from about
00:21:079 billion to
00:21:107.8 billion dollars, and Argentina maintains
00:21:13about 6.4
00:21:16million dollars.
00:21:20for Brazil, so Mercosur is
00:21:23fundamental for Argentina and the Brazilian market
00:21:26as well.
00:21:28And with that, Milei, by trying to create more
00:21:32difficulties in the relations between Brazil and Argentina,
00:21:37set of relations between Brazil
00:21:40and Argentina in difficulty and thus harm
00:21:44economic sectors in Argentina,
00:21:47also harm the automotive sector, which is between Brazil
00:21:51and Argentina and is very important, and with that
00:21:53also end up hindering, for example,
00:21:57extra-bloc relations such as with Singapore, with Korea
00:22:01del Sur, with India, and with
00:22:04Canada. So it is a very difficult moment
00:22:08for Brazil-Argentina relations and this cannot
00:22:11but reflect in
00:22:15reflect in Mercosur, so for
00:22:18Brazil, there is a limit that
00:22:21is not yet the final limit, but it is an important
00:22:25limit that the government of Milei, his
00:22:28foreign minister has also
00:22:32said things, has spoken things that
00:22:35displease and offend Brazil, so
00:22:38it is necessary, it is necessary that
00:22:42Argentina resume the normal
00:22:45diplomatic relations with Brazil,
00:22:48because Brazil did not attack Argentina,
00:22:52Brazil even continues to support, for example,
00:22:55supporting the claim of Argentina for the
00:22:59Malvinas, and even the Brazilian government
00:23:02recently spoke about this topic,
00:23:05so it is very difficult to understand
00:23:09that Javier Milei has some
00:23:12difficulty in understanding that Mercosur is
00:23:16fundamental for Argentina, even
00:23:19more so at this difficult time
00:23:22with many economic difficulties in his
00:23:25country, no doubt. And Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva
00:23:29said, leave ideologies aside regarding
00:23:33the Mercosur issue, at a time when, as we said, the commercial
00:23:36data is also important, Brazil has maintained uninterruptedly its position as
00:23:40Argentina's main trading partner since 1991,
00:23:42with vital sectors in
00:23:46automotive, energy and agro-industrial, which
00:23:49of course. This could be affected by this impasse, but the Argentine
00:23:53government, Roberto, disregarded the diplomatic tension
00:23:56with Brazil after the decision by Brasilia to
00:23:59withdraw its ambassador and to reduce diplomatic representation
00:24:02to chargés d'affaires. Argentine Foreign Minister
00:24:06Pablo Quirno refused to apologize
00:24:10for the epithets uttered by Javier
00:24:13Milei against Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva and called the Brazilian
00:24:16measure a unilateral decision based on ideological differences,
00:24:20accusing the president of that country of having supposedly
00:24:24verbally attacked and of having previously interfered in Argentine
00:24:27internal politics. I also wanted to ask you about this because it's contradictory, isn't it, that Javier
00:24:31Milei, who of course has openly
00:24:34shown support directly for the opposition in Brazil,
00:24:38now through his government this
00:24:41communiqué is given. What can you say about
00:24:45this as well?
00:24:48even. important this highlight, because in
00:24:52Brazil's case, President Lula left it to the Ministry
00:24:56of Foreign Affairs to deal with
00:24:58this matter directly with the Argentine
00:25:02Foreign Ministry, and in Milei's case, since he
00:25:06was the president who uttered the insults against
00:25:09Lula, now the Foreign Minister not only reaffirms
00:25:13that Milei spoke, but even accuses Brazil of
00:25:17having provoked Milei's government. He did not provoke
00:25:20Milei, President Lula did not provoke him,
00:25:23and also because Milei has a
00:25:26summit that is scheduled for the extreme
00:25:30right in Latin America in Buenos Aires,
00:25:33so this also seems to me that there
00:25:37are some relationships where the idea that given the geopolitical
00:25:41importance of Brazil in South America and given
00:25:44the geopolitical importance of Brazil, for example, in
00:25:47other in BRICS and other parts. of
00:25:51other agreements in the world, Argentina then seeks
00:25:55to gather in Buenos
00:25:58Aires leaders of the extreme right so that they can.
00:26:02can also show their support for candidate
00:26:05Flavio Bolsonaro, this they can do, it's
00:26:08legitimate, but this idea of Milei
00:26:12trying to confuse things and also public
00:26:15opinion, even because Milei when he attacked
00:26:19Lula for the first time about 15 days
00:26:22ago, the Argentine press
00:26:25also criticized Milei, there are commercial
00:26:28associations, there is another part of public opinion.
00:26:33in Argentina that criticized Milei's stance,
00:26:36even the governor of the autonomous city of
00:26:40Buenos Aires, and with that, Milei
00:26:44tries to reverse things and it is very clear
00:26:47that Brazil does not want to create more facts, more
00:26:51difficulties in relations with Argentina, but Lula
00:26:55said when Milei
00:26:58apologizes and with that, okay,
00:27:01we will establish better relations, but
00:27:05I also believe that Milei will not apologize
00:27:07because Milei's stance is one of confrontation,
00:27:10it is not it is
00:27:14not one of cordiality. He should
00:27:17also leave this to the Ministry
00:27:20of Foreign Affairs so that both Brazil
00:27:23and Argentina can find the points
00:27:26and the possibilities
00:27:29of working
00:27:33on relations, because as long as Milei
00:27:36continues speaking, attacking, criticizing,
00:27:39even
00:27:41declaring that Brazil is orchestrating a campaign against
00:27:45his country, this is an unacceptable attack.
00:27:48undoubtedly, eh, an attack that
00:27:52of course has many facets and that continues
00:27:55to mark informational dynamics, not only in our multi-media but also
00:27:59worldwide, Roberto, thank you very much for your time and for your insight.
00:28:12professor at the Institute of International Relations at the
00:28:15University of Brasilia. We also asked our
00:28:19audience about this topic because the United States revokes
00:28:22the visa of the Brazilian ambassador and thereby strains diplomatic
00:28:25relations with the South American Giant. What is this action
00:28:29by Washington responding to? 75% of
00:28:32users say: clear intention of electoral interference in
00:28:36Brazil, with 20%, some think
00:28:39and disrespect for Brazilian sovereignty, as we commented with
00:28:43Roberto, and with 5% political
00:28:46retaliation for ideological reasons, this is what our
00:28:49audience said in the world from the south, we thank
00:28:52everyone for their comments and with that we conclude our
00:28:56broadcast, I remind you as always www.telesurtv.net
00:29:00with our real-time signal from anywhere in the world. Also on Telegram
00:29:03the Telesur news service 24 hours a day always with a
00:29:07perspective of the world from the south I am Francisco Blandón thanks for following us
00:30:47The decision of the US Consulate in Sao Paulo to
00:30:51summon anti-Lula influencers for a suspicious meeting on
00:30:55freedom of expression, raises the thermometer of concerns about
00:30:58possible interference.