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00:00:09discussion, this debate with
00:00:31return to this project of contact with
00:00:50The decision by the U.S. Consulate in Sao Paulo
00:00:53to invite anti-Lula influencers
00:00:56great risk, the to a suspicious meeting about freedom of expression raises the temperature of the situation.
00:01:10talent of our athletes in search of The U.S. government has already implemented a tariff increase
00:01:13completely outside the standards of the World Trade
00:01:17Organization, therefore, politicized tariffs against
00:01:20Brazil. Furthermore, the White House sent two high-ranking
00:01:24officials here to inspect the electronic voting machines, but their
00:01:28entry was vetoed by the Brazilian government, claiming the
00:01:32defense of its sovereignty. As is publicly known, Donald
00:01:36Trump defends the release of Jair
00:01:39Bolsonaro, the jailed former
00:01:42president, for attempted coup,
00:01:44in which it was planned to assassinate Lula, and Marco Rubio
00:01:48has already declared that
00:01:52Brazil,
00:01:55a founding country of BRICS, is not a
00:01:57friend.
00:02:11to carry out this mission of
00:02:13achieving Latin American integration through
00:02:16information. This is the function of
00:02:18Telesur
00:02:21since it was created by Commander Hugo Chávez and Commander
00:02:24Fidel Castro. Here we are, following this
00:02:28same mission.
00:03:03There was already a project there to
00:03:09issues and begin to
00:03:30also to ensure the continuity of a
00:03:32process that can keep
00:03:35Brazil in line with defending Mercosur, defending
00:03:39BRICS, defending Latin American integration, as
00:03:43is the discourse of President Lula. Our
00:03:46guest today has a lot of experience in this area,
00:03:49first because she is an internationalist
00:03:51militant dedicated to this
00:03:54cause,
00:03:57also for being a representative, coordinator.
00:04:05conquest of this debate, from
00:04:19come from nothing and recover
00:04:24only be built from
00:04:32to make justice happen with her own
00:04:35feet, with her hands, with the laws, with the
00:04:38idea, with intelligence, with her head. Thank you
00:04:42very much, Dr. Tania Mandarino, for being here on Latitud Brasil with
00:04:45us. Good evening, Beto, good evening
00:04:49everyone. I
00:04:52am the one who thanks you for this honorable
00:04:56pleasure for us to be here representing the collective of lawyers
00:05:00for democracy on Telesur, which is
00:05:03the apple of your eye, I know.
00:05:06So I feel very honored, a joy, thank you for inviting
00:05:10me, you know that... You know that the world is increasingly
00:05:14dangerous and American interventionism
00:05:17is expanding more and more every day. In the
00:05:21first semester alone, there was the kidnapping of the constitutional
00:05:24president Nicolás Maduro and there was the
00:05:27assassination of the Iranian leader,
00:05:31Alijamenei, that is,
00:05:35there is a declared
00:05:36war situation.
00:05:43does not hide the desire to defeat Lula, he has already said it several
00:05:47times,
00:05:50because he does not want Brazil's rapprochement with China, with BRICS,
00:05:53and he does not want there to be areas of independence
00:05:56in Latin America regarding American
00:06:00dictates. How do you see the situation we are
00:06:04experiencing, a very
00:06:09moment is one of great danger.
00:06:12Brazil has a fundamental role in Latin America, even due to its size,
00:06:16and of course it will be targeted and there will be
00:06:19some dispute. Today I see Brazil in dispute by American
00:06:23imperialism, it was tried
00:06:26here a lot. We
00:06:29know that when Lula won his third
00:06:32term, there was an intention from the United
00:06:36States to wage a war against Venezuela.
00:06:40There was this intention a priori,
00:06:43today it seems that the situation is a little
00:06:47bit directed at
00:06:47Argentina,
00:06:51there is the imperialist, neo-fascist agent, who is Javier
00:06:54Milley,
00:06:57acting with provocations at the service of this destabilization
00:07:00project, because I believe, Beto, that the country,
00:07:04Brazil, is in dispute, and for
00:07:06that reason we are in a moment of great
00:07:08danger.
00:07:42conservative and
00:07:44interferences,
00:07:46as was denounced by the former president, now
00:07:49former president, as was denounced by Gustavo Petro, there
00:07:53were also in Peru, Bolivia, Argentina,
00:07:57Ecuador, that is,
00:08:00there were external interferences in all these
00:08:03countries.
00:08:54The global project today is a project that points to fascism, to
00:08:58Nazism, the world is moving in this direction and
00:09:02it would be a great naivety on our part to imagine that
00:09:05we, because we are giants, would be sleeping in
00:09:09splendid gods without intervention. So,
00:09:12I agree with you when you say that, despite the
00:09:15shivers, it is necessary to face the issue
00:09:18head-on in order to confront it collectively,
00:09:22in order to confront it as a nation and
00:09:25preferably with what we have of Latin America resisting and
00:09:28that is not
00:09:29little.
00:09:33So, I believe that we have this Cambridge Analytica
00:09:36model, which is now outdated, but
00:09:40which was already used in Brazil.
00:09:46It is important to say it, we cannot forget it, it led a fascist to the presidency of the republic,
00:09:49it established a movement that today is giving,
00:09:52including
00:09:55a motive for Trump's provocations through Javier
00:09:58Miley,
00:10:00when he says that we keep a leader unjustly imprisoned. This happened
00:10:04in 2018, it is not new. They need to understand
00:10:08this, that is, they already know it. A great characteristic of fascism is this
00:10:12same one: to invert the truth, to make
00:10:15this reach people as if it were an absolute truth,
00:10:19then before, in
00:10:222018.
00:10:33but it was more veiled, the matter was more
00:10:36veiled,
00:10:38so I believe that ultraconservatism advanced,
00:10:42the imperialist project, the
00:10:44advance of fascism advanced a lot, you
00:10:48yourself begin by talking about two very serious events, only in
00:10:51Venezuela, on January 3rd and the 24th, excuse
00:10:55me. And then, and
00:10:58then today I have an earthquake in my head, this event I imagine would have been natural, I'm not going to enter this
00:11:02scope, the death of Khamenei, the
00:11:06attacks on
00:11:07Iran,
00:11:10but now it's completely blatant, the matter is no
00:11:14longer so veiled,
00:11:17done in a school in England, this is
00:11:20stated, this is given, this is assumed, even with meetings
00:11:24with influencers.
00:11:25Perfect,
00:11:28we are not naive,
00:11:31to the point of imagining that the rudeness that the president of Argentina, Javier
00:11:34Miley, uttered here, here in Brazil, against
00:11:38Lula, are merely due to his low
00:11:41moral stature.
00:11:45We understand that he is a puppet,
00:11:49a lackey of imperialism, because it always
00:11:51historically
00:11:55intended to pit Brazil and
00:11:56Argentina
00:11:59against each other, as they are two very industrialized economies, to prevent them
00:12:02from having competitive
00:12:03power
00:12:07and to impose the colonial norms of the United States on these two great
00:12:11nations, so that we would not
00:12:13collaborate,
00:12:17so that we would not have the power of cooperation with
00:12:19Argentina, because this could generate a very
00:12:23important vision of integration. independence and
00:12:26sovereignty,
00:12:29but Miley came,
00:12:30insisted,
00:12:33and now Donald Trump renews the memorandum, in which he says
00:12:36that Bolsonaro is a persecuted one, that is, there is a load that is being
00:12:40carried, first Miley came and two officials were sent, the
00:12:44Lula government prohibited these officials because it was
00:12:47interference, evidently,
00:12:50but the United States consulate called a meeting
00:12:53clearly.
00:13:05an advance of the project, but we cannot forget, Beto, that this project that started much
00:13:08earlier, much earlier, years
00:13:10earlier,
00:13:15but its explosion itself can already be seen on January
00:13:188th, when Lula won the elections for the
00:13:22third term.
00:13:28oppose this electoral
00:13:30truth,
00:13:33they tried in every way to make him not take office. We
00:13:36already have this history, it is not a pleasant
00:13:39history, even for Brazil, many
00:13:43parameters escape to have that break-break,
00:13:47break the esplanade, break the ministries, the Supreme
00:13:50Federal Court itself.
00:13:54we need to
00:15:08know
00:15:11how to face this challenge. That is the
00:15:14reason for this question, Beto. Perhaps
00:15:17Karl Marx knew it, and we can
00:15:20learn a little from him. This
00:15:23is the topic for the second block of our conversation here on the Latitud
00:15:27Brasil program with Dr. Tania
00:15:29Mandarino
00:15:33from the Collective of Women and Men Lawyers for Democracy. We will
00:15:36be right back.
00:16:13More than 6,000 athletes from
00:16:1737 countries
00:16:20compete in 40
00:16:21disciplines.
00:16:24Santo Domingo becomes the home of Athletic Excellence of the
00:16:28continent.
00:16:33Enjoy the centenary and the 25th edition of the
00:16:36event that unites Central America and the
00:16:39Caribbean. From July 24th to August 8th,
00:16:42join Daisy to Cent and Luis Villasmill for the delivery and the
00:16:48glory. In the Central American and Caribbean Games,
00:16:51Santo Domingo 2026. Through our
00:16:55multiplatform. Only on
00:16:57Telesur.
00:17:02Every day new events and scenarios unfold in Latin
00:17:06America and the world. That's why we always have
00:17:09our agenda
00:17:10open.
00:17:17Remember to follow us through our multiplatform and be part every
00:17:21day of the most relevant events, from
00:17:24Monday to Friday only on Telesur.
00:18:18Latitud Brasil is back, today
00:18:21discussing the threats that hover over
00:18:23Brazil.
00:18:27Several Latin American countries had elections with external
00:18:30interference,
00:18:31Brazil
00:18:34will have general presidential elections in October.
00:19:07What would be the antidote to external interference?
00:19:11Mobilize the people, right?
00:19:14But mobilizing the people in defense of a program of social transformations,
00:19:17of more sovereignty, because sovereignty is not
00:19:20abstract. Sovereignty is to recover, for
00:19:24example, privatized state companies.
00:19:27Sovereignty is to defend our mineral wealth under the control of rare
00:19:31earths, for example, and yet we still
00:19:35have many privileges for the rentier sector.
00:19:39How, then,
00:19:42to balance all this to strengthen the democratic
00:19:45progressive candidacy of President
00:19:48Lula.
00:19:50This is the great challenge for Brazil as a nation, a sovereign
00:19:54Brazil. In fact, it is a challenge that
00:19:58needs to be built and can
00:20:02popular
00:20:03organization.
00:20:07For a long time, I believe at least that we are demobilized
00:20:11in the face of all these attacks. Everything that
00:20:14happens around us in Latin America should have already
00:20:18mobilized us,
00:20:21but this confrontation can only be done collectively,
00:20:24and it plays a very important role today
00:20:27for political, popular, social
00:20:31leaders,
00:20:32Brazilians.
00:20:35They need to be convened to organize the masses, which
00:20:39seems a little distant today, but
00:20:42tomorrow, who knows, right,
00:20:44Beto?
00:20:49For example.
00:20:53that is resisting military aggressions, it is being
00:20:57bombed, but it has internal unity, it has sovereign
00:21:00technological development, there is technological
00:21:03independence, there is the participation of the masses,
00:21:07there is even an armed people as well, even so it is being
00:21:11attacked. Brazil should
00:21:13see that the world is increasingly
00:21:16dangerous.
00:21:20It should not think that it can remain demobilized, it is not
00:21:23so.
00:21:26Yes, this is a more elemental step, you also cite other factors that will
00:21:29take some time to build,
00:21:32which is the recovery of our technological autonomy or creation,
00:21:36because I believe that we never really had technological
00:21:39autonomy, we were in Brazil within this whole
00:21:42project, it is important
00:21:44to remember
00:21:47the operation.
00:21:51the operation that came precisely with an imperialist project with many
00:21:54soldiers, judges, prosecutors, ministers, many
00:21:58soldiers at the service of this imperialist
00:22:00project, to cause a rupture in the
00:22:03economy,
00:22:07to stagnate our possibilities of starting to grow in technological
00:22:11autonomy, and that was a project that devastated our
00:22:15land, we already have devastated land, it's not what
00:22:18will happen now.
00:22:20This is a hybrid war, this is also a cognitive
00:22:24war that is now being built, they have this aspect of not
00:22:28leaving,
00:22:30in these cases, bombs, effects of
00:22:32gunpowder, we think that no, everything is
00:22:36fine, there is still no war, but there is, the war is already happening and
00:22:40it's not new, we are broken, ah, but the
00:22:43economy is growing, it's growing a lot, President
00:22:47Lula has done a fascinating job with his team, despite specific
00:22:51criticisms that we may have, but he is leading
00:22:54Brazil, but for how long, that is the
00:22:57question, because the land was already
00:23:00devastated,
00:23:03his imprisonment for 580 days here in the city where I live, in
00:23:07Curitiba, in southern
00:23:08Brazil,
00:23:12and it was also, I believe, a popular conquest of
00:23:16resistance. We have emerged from this state of affairs
00:23:20in some way.
00:23:22The liberation of President Lula was a popular response of
00:23:25580 days of a vigil that I believe never
00:23:29happened on the planet. This vigil could go to Guinness,
00:23:33because we presented ourselves. Lula was a popular
00:23:36testimony to this. All of Brazil came here and
00:23:39Lula, returning to the presidency of the Republic, is now running for his
00:23:43fourth term. It's no small feat.
00:23:47It is also necessary that we tell ourselves how much can.
00:23:51how much popular organization makes itself felt
00:23:54there. We will have to recover these other
00:23:59rebuild a nation that was broken by an imperialist
00:24:02project. It is clear that progressive
00:24:04forces
00:24:10are very certain of the importance of maintaining this perspective of
00:24:14electing President Lula again.
00:24:17Although that does not mean forgetting, for
00:24:21example, that agrarian reform is stalled,
00:24:24that revenues are up, de-industrializing the country,
00:24:28contrary to the discourse of the government itself,
00:24:31and that the media remains highly
00:24:34concentrated in the hands of the enemies of progressive
00:24:37forces, favoring
00:24:40those who are vassals of the American
00:24:43president. These contradictions at this
00:24:46moment should be well debated, don't you think?
00:24:51From this debate, from the
00:24:55the awareness regarding these contradictions, we can
00:24:58begin to build resistance. Only from
00:25:02this, in my evaluation, Beto, there is no other
00:25:05way. We cannot now
00:25:09what was devastated.
00:25:11So these contradictions need to be
00:25:14discussed, popularly brought up,
00:25:18it's not just to discuss.
00:25:26One of the things I admire most, Beto, in Venezuela is the work done with the
00:25:30mapping in the streets
00:25:34and the visit to the inhabitants of the
00:25:35population.
00:25:38The PES, for example, is a party that does not abandon
00:25:41the people, does not betray the people, regardless of what
00:25:45is happening, of factors of correlation of external
00:25:48interference forces. The PSU is there, still doing
00:25:52its work. I would like my party, which is the
00:25:55PT, the Workers' Party, the same party
00:25:58as President Lula, to also grow.
00:26:02helping to build this as well,
00:26:05but also growing with more direction in this
00:26:08sense, to return to this
00:26:12the people who cannot be abandoned at this
00:26:14moment.
00:26:19No matter what their state of mind is, many people are already manipulated by this
00:26:23issue of bigtech, of the analytics project that began
00:26:26and everything. It doesn't matter, the people are never to blame in my
00:26:29evaluation. We need to
00:26:33the people to be able to win, otherwise it won't
00:26:36happen. It's a way to defend national
00:26:39sovereignty,
00:26:42to defend the continuity of a very important project in Latin America for
00:26:45Brazil, to continue defending Latin
00:26:49American integration, the presence of BRICS, the
00:26:52alliance with China, with Russia and with other BRICS
00:26:56countries, and also the return of UNASUR that needs to be retaken,
00:27:00UNASUR, this is a proposal that President Lula does not
00:27:03abandon. Thank you very much, Dr. Tania
00:27:07Mandarino
00:27:09from the Collective of Lawyers for Democracy. For
00:27:13your presence here at Latitud Brasil. Thank you very much, thank
00:27:16you very much. I thank you,
00:27:19thank you and we will continue until victory, because we are going to
00:27:22win. Latin America is going to win, the Global South is going to
00:27:26win. And congratulations on the solidarity
00:27:29work that the collective did in relation.
00:27:43Thank you very much, next week we will be back to
00:27:47try to understand even more
00:27:49deeply,
00:27:52this enigmatic and giant country, as you say,
00:27:55Brazil. See you next time,
00:27:57bye.
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