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00:00:00through the
00:00:00of jargon and bring you the news that matters. Money
00:00:04a talks
00:00:05in on TRT
00:00:06World.
00:00:10As kid I was very eager, I was very active. I loved to
00:00:14dance and I used to love to ride my bike, really
00:00:19of good. But those things about me started to change even though I knew
00:00:23something was wrong. I never imagined it would be this. The
00:00:27lime disease bacteria bariliar is definitely. one
00:00:30of the smartest bacteria on the planet, this organism knows how to change
00:00:33forms. i came here
00:00:35a cuuse wanted to meet the pope, buse i believe
00:00:37in a miracle, believe
00:00:39in a miracle. there are more cases of lime disease than
00:00:43HIV and breast cancer
00:00:44combined. storyteller, the
00:00:48quiet epidemic on TRT
00:00:52of World.
00:00:57of
00:01:02of
00:01:08Divisions
00:01:08of within the European Union have been exposed after more than
00:01:1260,000 migrants surged into the Spanish
00:01:15enclave filter from Morocco. President
00:01:18a of the EU Commission, Ersula Vongelain has called for stronger
00:01:22border controls and a unified approach to migration.
00:01:26But how does the block move forward amid strained
00:01:29of relations and Why did so many people storm the border
00:01:33on the same
00:01:33day?
00:01:38of
00:01:42of
00:01:47in hello
00:01:47in and welcome to roundtable. I'm Ryan
00:01:51and Jones. Europe's migration policy is under scrutiny
00:01:55after the Moroccan spanish border was overwhelmed last
00:01:59week and 10. tens of thousands of migrants swam, scrambled
00:02:03and stampeded their way into the Spanish city
00:02:06felter. Most
00:02:07of the migrants have been returned home, but many are living on the
00:02:11streets with no shelter, food nor
00:02:13of water. Dozens lost their lives
00:02:16of attempting the journey. Well, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez
00:02:19has blamed human traffickers for the crisis, whilst
00:02:23other European Union states have accused him
00:02:26of of a being soft on migrants.
00:02:32'they came in their thousands, some swam
00:02:35desperately trying to make it to shore, others rushed the
00:02:39border. By the end
00:02:40of the day, more than 60,00 migrants had made it into the
00:02:44of Spanish enclave of thauta. I i prefer
00:02:47to die here than to go my back, to
00:02:50of go back step. Fayota is one of two Spanish territories in
00:02:54North Africa, and she is a land border with Morocco. To
00:02:58get there, people often'. swim from the Moroccan town of Fneidec,
00:03:02of which is about 5 km away. For some, it
00:03:06was deadly journey, at least
00:03:08of 75 people died in the crossing, mostly from
00:03:11drowning. With
00:03:13a resident population of only 83, the influx
00:03:17overwhelmed thealter, and the army was deployed. Prime Minister
00:03:21Pedro Sanchez traveled there last week to meet with
00:03:23authorities. This was
00:03:26violation of Spain's territorial integrity.
00:03:30of Saiuta is a Spanish city and what happened yesterday deserves
00:03:34our strongest reproach and our firmest
00:03:37condemnation.
00:03:41far right political parties and protesters have accused
00:03:44of the leader of being lacks
00:03:46of over border control, while the crisis has exposed divisions
00:03:50in Europe over migrant policy. Sanchez has blamed
00:03:54human traffickers for spreading rumors about
00:03:56a recent Spanish supreme court ruling that migrants are driving by
00:04:00sea can not
00:04:01of immediately be
00:04:02of returned. my friend has called me that the
00:04:06border is open, yes, and
00:04:09sanchez has criticized some EU countries for what he called
00:04:13a selfish response. Italy's prime minister
00:04:17Georgia Moloni temporarily suspended the
00:04:20of EU's border free Shingin arrangement with Spain
00:04:22in a move backed by Finland and Denmark. At an
00:04:26EU emergency meeting, 22
00:04:28of the blocks 27. member states called for coordinated
00:04:32action. most
00:04:33of the 60,00 migrants have now returned to Morocco, many
00:04:37voluntarily. it's really tough. everyone there
00:04:41got stopped and arrested. they don't want to sell groceries to anyone of
00:04:44those arriving.
00:04:46of spain is
00:04:47of now securing thealter's border as the country's top court
00:04:50investigates just how this mass
00:04:53of crossing of was able to
00:04:54of happen. well let's meet
00:04:58our guests joining us from in southern Spain is journalist Zoe
00:05:02Base in Budapest we have Andreas Laslow and
00:05:05Hungarian politician and member
00:05:07of the European Parliament, he's part
00:05:09of the group Patriots for Europe and here. In the studio we
00:05:13have Pablo Calderon Martinez, associate professor in politics
00:05:17and international relations at northeastern
00:05:20University, London. Now let's start with the sheer
00:05:24scale, Pablo of this particular surge:
00:05:2760,000 migrants, I
00:05:29mean it's almost an unimaginable number. It's
00:05:33huge. Spanish authorities say it was down to
00:05:36misinformation which fuels this rush to the
00:05:40border. Do we have any clearer op? picture now of
00:05:43what actually happened? unfortunately, i think we
00:05:47don't have clear picture of what exactly happened, i think it's very interesting to see
00:05:51the huge numbers, so you say something unprecedented, we've had this sort of crisis before and this
00:05:55sort of issues happening in the enclave before, but this is the the first time it's
00:05:59happening such magnitude and such numbers, there's a lot of information, lot of different
00:06:02versions going around in spain about what exactly happened and there's
00:06:05a lot of information and theories perhaps from the Spanish side, i'll
00:06:09be very interested to hear as well and to find out more from the Morock. government, what exactly
00:06:13happened from the Moroccan side the border, because it all seems to indicate that
00:06:17for whatever reason the Moroccans decided to let this group of migrants
00:06:21through, there was some sort of filtration as well, it was mostly
00:06:24Moroccans, not people from the rest of Africa, so I'm
00:06:28curious to see what happens, we've seen this happen before as political gamemanship from
00:06:31Morocco between Spain, so I think we don't have the full picture yet,
00:06:35and we don't know what's going on behind the scenes in political terms, uh other than that it
00:06:39seems to be an issue of misinformation and the... that came on from the supreme
00:06:43court in Spain that was misunderstood or misinformed across Morocco in
00:06:47particular that led to the impression that migros could just come to Spain and they were going to be
00:06:51allowed into the Shengen area which was completely false as we've seen and most them have
00:06:55come back but yeah it seems to be a combination of factors and I'm not sure we have the full picture
00:06:59yet no um well let's bring in Zoe because Zoe you
00:07:02were reporting from southern Spain as this
00:07:06all happened so what were authorities and local
00:07:09communities telling you what were they saying as events
00:07:12unfolded? well, i think there was just
00:07:16a lot of shock, frankly, people
00:07:19in the, the residence of thota feel
00:07:23somewhat betrayed, i think by the by the spanish
00:07:27government, the central government, they they
00:07:31complained that basically
00:07:33how is it possible that there was no indication
00:07:35in
00:07:37in the preceeding hours of preceding days that they were going to
00:07:41be over 6000. even 7000 people
00:07:45arriving on the on their coastline
00:07:49and indeed the president of thoter did
00:07:52mention that in the day or two preceeding what
00:07:56happened there were increasing numbers of
00:08:00of people arriving, i think between one and 200, so there
00:08:04does seem to have been some indication that something was a
00:08:08miss, that things were different from
00:08:11usual ' but some have suggested that
00:08:15Spanish Police did not take this, perhaps did not take this
00:08:18seriously or yeah, did not have the have the full
00:08:21information, so I think people have have been shocked, frankly.
00:08:25I did want to ask Siri, did it appear to be very much
00:08:29a spontaneous rush or or was there any evidence of
00:08:32organized criminal smuggling involved from where you were
00:08:36when you were reporting? yeah, I mean, I think that's that's very
00:08:40difficult to say um that something... was organized some the
00:08:43people who were spoken to um said that
00:08:47they had been guided by um Moroccan
00:08:51authorities
00:08:53um but that is according that's on the ground in thot that was according to some journalists
00:08:57from the New York Times um I think it's very very hard at the stage to
00:09:01ascertain what role criminal organizations played
00:09:04although this is something that the Spanish government and the Moroccan government
00:09:08have both put forward but the but the actual evidence for that
00:09:13is is, we have to wait
00:09:15to to confirm those those comments. Pedro sanchez traveled
00:09:19to alges just days before this latest
00:09:23latest surge into thelter, is this
00:09:26timing significant?
00:09:30well, it could be, that relationship between Spain,
00:09:34Morocco and Algeria is delicate one, it's a delicate triangle,
00:09:38diplomatic triangle, but currently there's more
00:09:41questions than answers about what were the reasons for
00:09:45this unprecedented invasion into Selta.
00:09:49There have been previous in previous years such
00:09:52incidents, but not at this scale,
00:09:55and that is why with the Patriots for Europe group we asked for an extraordinary
00:09:59plenary session the European Parliament to go into the
00:10:02details, see what's going on. I know that the interior
00:10:06ministers the European Union countries are meeting
00:10:09an online video conference ' get some of some
00:10:13answers of what happened exactly, honestly it's very
00:10:17difficult to imagine that the Spanish government or the
00:10:21Moroccan government did not know what was going to happen.
00:10:2550, 60, 70,00 people crossing the borders
00:10:29illegally a day or two doesn't happen every day, it's not
00:10:33something that can go on notice, not something that should go on
00:10:37notice, and according to latest information, there are still a
00:10:40couple of thousand people left in Sauta,
00:10:44this is unacceptable, this is a pressure on the city
00:10:48that is unacceptable, they have our full
00:10:51solidarity, they have our full support, but we need to find out what
00:10:55happened, that's why we are pushing for debate in the European
00:10:58Parliament as well as soon as possible. unfortunately, the
00:11:02European people's party refused to have this extraordinary
00:11:06plenary debate, because they sided with the
00:11:10left. Pablos there saying that is unlikely that the Spanish
00:11:13government didn't know about this incoming surge, Spain has
00:11:17been criticized for reacting too slowly. what's the
00:11:21government's response and has it been?
00:11:25inadequate, yeah, I think there is some fair criticism there, and I think there's
00:11:29been certainly the reaction was deemed slow, and I think it was father
00:11:33more of anything of the intelligence services, security services, because there should have
00:11:36been some indication, I think at the very least there was a failure of
00:11:40cooperation on communication between the Moroccans and the Spanish, and I
00:11:44said before, we don't really know why this happened right, so
00:11:48there's something more to the story, I'm sure, but something of course
00:11:51that at least I'm not priv to, and there will be more to the story, we not.
00:11:55clear why the morokans in particular first let these
00:11:59migrants go through and get so close to the border because usually is a
00:12:02buffer on the Moroccan side the border so what changed what made them let
00:12:06them sort of as it were go free uh secondly why they didn't aler the
00:12:10Spanish authorities and thirdly why weren't the Spanish authorities in the
00:12:14know of this agglomeration of people and this could happen so there's certainly some criticism there
00:12:18that could be made uh I think once the situation evolved I
00:12:22think the Pedro Sanchez government tried to react quickly. "we saw how the
00:12:26situation came back under control more or less relatively quickly and things seem
00:12:30to be more or less going back to normal, normal, yes, there's still some uh
00:12:34migrants there that are left uh, but it's not something in the numbers that we
00:12:37saw, and the majority the migrants went back pretty much immediately as soon as they got
00:12:41to to to celta, and Spain has said that Morocco has
00:12:45cooperated with returns, how much
00:12:48responsibility should Morocco bear in this
00:12:51incident? I mean to some extent Morocco has..." "you now the
00:12:55responsibility of Morocco is not to protect spanish borders, right? the responsibility to protect spanish
00:12:59borders is of Spain, but also this cooperation between the two and the has to be
00:13:03cooperation, and this is has been a historically complicated
00:13:06relationship that to be fair has been getting better the last few
00:13:09years. um, why this happen, I'm not entirely sure, we've
00:13:13seen Morocco use the issue of migration as a political tool
00:13:17somehow to extract certain positions, and and it's a way of
00:13:21adding a little bit of leverage onto the Spanish government, it could..." that this
00:13:25was a little bit of a warning shot the Moroccan government
00:13:29anticipating perhaps a change of government in Spain and saying, listen, we still
00:13:33have this tool at our disposal, so if anything changes in the position
00:13:36of Spain visas Morocco or Algeria, we can always
00:13:40open, the flood guess as it were, which is going to be problematic for
00:13:43Spain, I don't know, the reality is we don't really know, but there's all sorts of different
00:13:47versions of what's going on and I'm really trying to figure it out like the rest of
00:13:51us, aren't we all? Pablo, Zoey how...
00:13:55how just how politically damaging is this proving to be for Pedro
00:13:58sanchez? yeah, i think it is putting
00:14:02pressure on him definitely. mean amongst the Spanish
00:14:06population, obviously those people who were
00:14:10already supportive the partido popular, the
00:14:13center right party or even the far right vox, this is just you
00:14:17know fuel for the fire, um, basically this
00:14:21idea that Pedro sanchez's government just don't have control.
00:14:25the borders the the country, and it's fair to
00:14:29say that people here on the ground in Malager have felt a certain
00:14:33amount of shock and concern if you consider that
00:14:36thought is a one-hour fairy ride away
00:14:40from from the Spanish mainland, so I think that
00:14:44has really, fueled those people already
00:14:48in opposition to Sanchez, I think also
00:14:52we see here Sanchez looking fairly - related within the
00:14:56European context,
00:14:57and I think that's particularly what he and his government are now complaining about
00:15:01at European level, saying that they were offered very, very little
00:15:05support, and 22 out of 27 European
00:15:09nations basically signed letter that
00:15:12suggested that the problem lay with Sanchez and his
00:15:15government and his migration policies, so I think
00:15:19yeah, I think Sanchez at this point probably is feeling a little bit a little
00:15:23bit isolated. talk about the migration debate within Europe.
00:15:27Ondras, you've argued that the EU migration
00:15:31pact, it creates incentives for illegal
00:15:34migration, so what should Europe? be do doing
00:15:38differently and in particular looking at Hungary as
00:15:42an example of of Europe's or one of Europe's
00:15:45tougher borders? well, the government
00:15:49federal Sanchez has done the same mistake as the European Union has
00:15:53in terms of being very weak on border protection against illegal
00:15:57immigration. just to put this into context, this
00:16:00crisis, the last couple of months in Spain have
00:16:03been about the question of legalizing hundreds of
00:16:07thousands in Spain and basically
00:16:11granting them regular status, although they entered
00:16:14illegally. if then there's another piece of news
00:16:18and we've discussed this already that some
00:16:21people it was circulating in networks or maybe even in
00:16:25media that people who enter seuta
00:16:28illegally will be allowed to stay, well that is fueled
00:16:32by the months and months
00:16:35previously where the... Spanish government has moved
00:16:39forward on legalizing hundreds of thousands of illegals, so
00:16:43obviously there's a pull factor created by politics,
00:16:46created by the socialist government in Spain, and also created with what you
00:16:50mentioned, the EU migration pact, because what is the EU migration pact
00:16:54about, it's about distributing the burden of
00:16:57illegal immigration across Europe to all
00:17:01countries and without stopping illegal entry,
00:17:05that should be the first priority the European Union. that was the first
00:17:09priority of our government in Hungary since the
00:17:122015 migration crisis and it was
00:17:15successful one, you can stop
00:17:18illegal immigrants at the borders,
00:17:22of course there's a lot of pressure from media,
00:17:26there's a lot of pressure from NGOs and
00:17:28there was a lot of pressure on Hungary from the European Commission, just to remind the
00:17:32viewers, we were find
00:17:33one.
00:17:51I would like to welcome you all to our ministry, here we are in
00:17:55Ankara, hosting a very important
00:17:57guest, the Syrian foreign minister, my
00:18:01dear counterpart, my dear brother
00:18:04and
00:18:07my longstanding friends. Assan Shayibani is with us with his
00:18:10delegation, we are delighted to be hosting him and his delegation in
00:18:14Ankara, welcome to Ankara, Turkia is your second home
00:18:17anyway, and as you know in Syria, since the
00:18:21revolution, with our brothers and sisters, we have always held talks
00:18:24and we have always paid visits to
00:18:27Syria, and we have a structuralized working
00:18:31group and mechanisms in place, we get together very frequently, we're in
00:18:35touch all the time and we are.
00:18:46these efforts
00:18:48Now all contribute to Syria's stability and the cooperation between our
00:18:52two nations are deepening and we are witnessing this
00:18:56moment by moment and this is to the advantage of our countries and
00:19:00to our region and this gives us great hope for the
00:19:03future.
00:19:07is something that we welcome and we
00:19:11contribute to these to these efforts
00:19:15equally, and in the past i have also underscored
00:19:19that welfare of Syria and Turkey are intertwined,
00:19:23we cannot see them as separate, and we have a
00:19:26900 kilometer border between us, but we also share a
00:19:30history, our history and our culture, and we also share
00:19:34our future, we want Damascus.
00:19:37Aleppo uh to be more prosperous and when
00:19:41that happens we will feel that in Istanbul in Gaza antep
00:19:45also any incident that takes place in Syria that derail
00:19:49Syria's stability would pose a threat for
00:19:52Turkey as well with this understanding counter terrorism, defense and
00:19:56security are some the cooperation areas where we have
00:20:00achieved synchronicity and in Syria the
00:20:03integration process is underway and it needs to be maintained without any...
00:20:07supposed and organizations
00:20:13armed
00:20:17should elements be now brought the together all under national structure and this
00:20:20would be very important for the stability of Syria and for our
00:20:24region, actually it is an obligation. esteemed members the
00:20:28press, in line with the needs the new era, we
00:20:32are also focusing on our economic ties in order to boost
00:20:35our trade volume, are working on
00:20:39customs liberalization, we are trying to build capacity at borders
00:20:42and also focusing on banking channels and
00:20:46also we are trying to make sure that our infrastructures
00:20:50are compatible with one another and our teams are working towards
00:20:54these goals and as for public institutions and
00:20:57private companies of Turkia, they also
00:21:01will play a role in the rebuilding of Syria, they're working
00:21:05towards this goal, and regional projects, I
00:21:09believe will play a very important role within this
00:21:12process, just to give you a concrete example, Turkey, Syria,
00:21:16Jordan and Saudi Arabia, highway and rail.
00:21:21way interconnectivity initiative is tremendously
00:21:25important, this strategic initiative will hopefully be implemented
00:21:28sooner than later, and thanks to the
00:21:32leadership of our leaders we will stick to this path. dear
00:21:35friends, in our bilateral relations, many concrete projects are being
00:21:39implemented with speed, turkish school will
00:21:43hopefully be opened in Damascus, we would like to thank our country parts for the
00:21:47granting the permission and this school. will be opened
00:21:50very soon and Turkish Syrian University will hopefully
00:21:54be established in Damascus. Healthcare industry is yet
00:21:58another top priority area for us, many hospitals
00:22:02will be built and the healthcare infrastructure of Syria
00:22:06will be built as well as as result of our joint efforts
00:22:10and Mou was actually signed in
00:22:13June when our minister of health visited
00:22:17Syria and also we want Syria to be integrated to the
00:22:28denominated accounts and this has
00:22:31been a step in in the right direction in the upcoming period
00:22:34Turkia Syria relations will hopefully appreciate even further
00:22:38thanks to the new projects that we're going implement by working
00:22:42together and today we also had the opportunity to talk about regional
00:22:46matters of interest between the US and Iran.
00:23:20"and this is something that is worthy of note, so the security
00:23:24and prosperity of Syria must be protected as regional uh nations,
00:23:28it falls on our shoulders to protect Syria's stability. On the other
00:23:31hand, Israel has been targeting uh Syria's territorial
00:23:35integrity and sovereignty, and these are attacks uh
00:23:39towards the stability the country. The international
00:23:43community should um raise their voices
00:23:46against Israel's occupational attempts."
00:25:51protected, which
00:25:54is
00:25:58being must currently violated be by Israel and we support
00:26:01Jordan. as the custodian these holy sites, yet another
00:26:05challenge that we're going through as region is in Lebanon,
00:26:09Israel is continuing its expansionist policies in
00:26:13Lebanon, thousands of people have lost their lives and one million
00:26:16civilians were actually displaced, and for the
00:26:20prosperity, for the stability the region, stability
00:26:24needs to reign supreme in in Lebanon,
00:26:27so Lebanon, Syria relations must be normalized and
00:26:31cooperation areas must.
00:26:41Syria will be source of solutions, not just
00:26:45problems. Alhamdulillah, this is happening, and with our brothers
00:26:48and sisters
00:26:49in the region, we have set up many tables of cooperation
00:26:52and our Syrian brothers and sisters will be a part these processes as
00:26:56well. In the upcoming period, our bilateral relations will hopefully be
00:27:00deepened even further.
00:27:43with our brothers and sisters in Turkey, we have
00:27:47been working closely and we have achieved a lot a
00:27:50a limited period, today also we talked
00:27:54about what we can possibly do in
00:27:57institutionalized manner, we
00:27:59have high strategic,
00:28:13between two nations we have achieved coordination, we have a coordination committee
00:28:16actually, and in all these areas we talk
00:28:20about all the pertinent topics on our agenda, we talk about politics,
00:28:24commercial topics as well, we have set
00:28:27out our priorities as result these efforts
00:28:30and we are hoping
00:29:10for more investments, we need to rid the
00:29:14region of terrorism and
00:29:16militia, and as you very well
00:29:20know, obviously we have a shared border, and
00:29:24this border must be rid of terrorism as well, and we need to
00:29:28protect this border together, and for this process to
00:29:31succeed, "we need to work together and this will
00:29:35ultimately serve our shared interests. Syria, as you
00:29:39know, in this new era has implemented great
00:29:42initiatives and these initiatives will be to the benefit, to the
00:29:46advantage the region at large, achieving stability, and
00:29:50also um making sure
00:29:54that there are no armed groups, armed elements outside
00:29:58the national armed forces is another goal, arms should
00:30:02be. born by the national
00:30:05authority only, and for the region, for the
00:30:09stability of region, this is of crucial importance, and obviously
00:30:12our stability is important for the region at
00:30:16large, so that is why in order to
00:30:19achieve stability in the region, these
00:30:22these things must be taken into
00:30:26account, and of course security in the north,
00:30:29achieving peace,
00:30:42these are attacks against our sovereignty, against our
00:30:45territory, and this also de rails the stability
00:30:49the region at large. once again, i would like to
00:30:53reiterate that in
00:30:541974.