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00:00:03me
00:00:08This of of is TRT World, I'm Neil Harvey, and here are our headlines: Iran and
00:00:12Oman are finalizing an interim deal on commercial
00:00:15of shipping through the
00:00:16of straight of Hola Moos, but there are some remaining
00:00:21of of thorny issues, they include the lifting of a US in Naval blockade and transit fees. Iran seeking five
00:00:24to 7% of cargo value, Oman has
00:00:27in proposed 3%, meanwile don't Trump's hinting a broader deal with Iran
00:00:31could be close.
00:00:34of Yemen's Iran aligned hoothies have confirmed a missile attack on yet
00:00:38another Saudi linked oil tanker. The group says that vessel was
00:00:42of targeted in the Gulf of Aden. On Wednesday, they also claimed
00:00:45in responsibility for attack a Saudi tanker off the coast
00:00:48of the Red Sea port of Yambu. Israel's military says
00:00:52two soldiers have been killed, eight woundads during combat in southern Lebanon, the
00:00:56strikes on Wednesday were in retaliation to what Israel described as Hez...
00:01:00violations
00:01:00of the seas far. this
00:01:02of comes as US broker peace talks between Israel and Lebanon how
00:01:06are concluding
00:01:08of today in Rome, the focus being on the next phase of a gradual Israeli withdraw
00:01:12from southern Lebanon. Israel's forces
00:01:16continue though to storm
00:01:18of of the calandia refugee camp in the occupied west bank with at least 16 palestinians so
00:01:22far injured. 60 people have been
00:01:24of arrested during Thursday's
00:01:25of rates. Uganda's parliament's approved deployment
00:01:29of... to Gaza as part of a proposed
00:01:32of international stabilization mission, the move following a direct request from
00:01:36President Donald Trump to President Yauri Musevini. The force
00:01:39is part of
00:01:40me a broader peace plan unveiled after the seasfire reached in October, it
00:01:44would oversee security and humanitarian aid efforts in
00:01:47Gaza. Three people have been killed in overnight
00:01:51a strikes by Russia on
00:01:52a Ukraine's eastern city of Balaclear in the Hark region, rescue
00:01:55operations continue as teams struggle to clear the debry. Meanwile
00:01:59two. have been killed, five wounded in the
00:02:02of Ukrainian drone strike on Russia's branch
00:02:04region, and Myanmar's leaders in
00:02:07Tailand on an official
00:02:09of visit,
00:02:09as Bangkok pushes for re-engagement with its wartor neighbor and the regional
00:02:13block Asian, Myanmar's leaders have been bad from Asyan summit
00:02:17since
00:02:18of 2021, when Min Anglang staged the coup against the
00:02:22elected government of Ang
00:02:24in Sanu in chi, of that led
00:02:25of to of a civil war killing an estimated 100 thousand
00:02:28people.
00:02:30of Those headlines
00:02:34to stay with us as the news
00:02:38of continues.
00:02:41in in of
00:02:46of
00:02:50Hungarian prime minister Peter broke 16 years of rule under
00:02:54Victor Orban when he
00:02:55of came to power in
00:02:56of April. Now he's in the process of dismantling the system he in.
00:03:00calling it
00:03:01of corrupt and
00:03:02of illiberal, but is Hungary's so-called purgatorium testing the
00:03:06limits
00:03:07of the rule of
00:03:08of law?
00:03:28Orban, petter major promised. to tear down the system he
00:03:31left brick by brick and he
00:03:34of started to do just that, changing the constitution, removing
00:03:38key officials and launching corruption probes into
00:03:41of Orban's inner circle. It's part of a drive to clean up
00:03:45Hungarian politics and to become more aligned with the EU, but
00:03:48critics are calling it a power
00:03:51grab. Hungarian voters
00:03:54gave Peter Majar's Teaser party two-thirds
00:03:58super majority.
00:04:00of April's election, allowing him to rewrite the country's
00:04:04of constitution. Majar says it's needed to undo what
00:04:08he calls the mafia
00:04:10in system built by Victor Orban's Fidet's party during
00:04:13its 16 years in power. Our
00:04:17country has been led for many years by professional, very experienced
00:04:21politicians, excellent lawyers who knew
00:04:24a exactly the rules
00:04:24of of
00:04:25of power, the letters, the mazes of laws and the
00:04:27constitution. because of this, they put the
00:04:31state and
00:04:32the law at the service
00:04:33of their own interests. the
00:04:37first target of Teser's operation purgatory was
00:04:41the presidency. Tamas Sulliok, appointed
00:04:44of under Orben, resigned last month, parliamentary term
00:04:48limits have also been brought in,
00:04:51a effectively barring most of Orban's MPs from reelection, with the
00:04:55chief prosecutor
00:04:56of and head
00:04:56a of the Constitutional Court being pushed out too. A raid
00:05:00of data center linked to the fidete's party has led
00:05:04Orban to speak
00:05:06of out. If a
00:05:07of party's computer server is taken away, containing its membership
00:05:11register, communication. entire internet operation,
00:05:14databases, membership fees and support
00:05:17donations, and it's taken away by the government the rival political
00:05:21force, that is a problem. I do not think that this needs to be
00:05:25explained. The EU has been
00:05:28supportive of Majar since his election, and is moving to
00:05:32unlock billions in frozen funds, if Maja is
00:05:36able to deliver on his anti-corruption and transparency
00:05:40reforms at home. Teaser's popularity has started
00:05:44to drop, dipping by 5% in opinion polls since
00:05:48coming to power. I don't like what's going on in
00:05:51parliament now. I'm not saying that I don't like the change, but I think it's taken a
00:05:55bad direction by forcing the president to
00:05:57resign.
00:06:00Now a new one-party system will evolve. The teaser party will put their
00:06:04own puppet there. They'll do whatever they
00:06:06want. The former president, Tamaliok was a
00:06:10character of no weight. He never said anything, he never took a
00:06:14position, he just signed everything in silence. He said
00:06:18what they told him to say, he really was
00:06:21puppet. Peter majar promised
00:06:25Hungarian's change and he is moving to deliver on that
00:06:28promise, but will it be the kind of change that people
00:06:32voted
00:07:10think in my interpretation
00:07:12um and "I'm not the only one. President Schwiok's removal
00:07:15from office was serious violation of democratic
00:07:19principles, not seen here in the central European region
00:07:23since the end of communism, and the former
00:07:27president's words uh, when he said
00:07:30that his successor will not be
00:07:34legitimate, or he said that precisely, he said um, use the
00:07:38word illegitimate, will reverberate in the in the in the minds of
00:07:42anyone. who would want to or would
00:07:44consider actually
00:07:47accepting the presidency from from Peter
00:07:50Majar, forcing out the chief
00:07:53prosecutor is similarly interpreted
00:07:56in as a political retribution, hence
00:08:00underbining public confidence in the prosecutor's
00:08:03office. um, unfortunately, what we see, what we have
00:08:07seen with the president is only the tip the eyes, but this is
00:08:11happening all across. the Hungarian public life
00:08:15and and the political spectrum, high or low
00:08:19level public figures are forced out from their offices, people
00:08:23who have never broken the law only because they are not
00:08:27signaling their loyalty towards the new tissa government and the
00:08:31president was one the victims of this
00:08:34retribution. Mark we
00:08:50complaints from fides partisans
00:08:54are really rich in hypocrisy given the fact that Victor Ortiban was
00:08:57in power for 16 years, and he built the
00:09:00system that Peter is currently
00:09:04using to dismantal
00:09:08the really truly not democratic but rather
00:09:11authoritar. system that Ortaban
00:09:15built during his, more than
00:09:1916 years in power, the complaints
00:09:22and
00:09:23the the winging and the belly aching from from fetus partizans is
00:09:27also just very strange, and if you look at Ordban and his
00:09:31top lieutenants, they resigned their seats from parliament,
00:09:35they're not trying to make any contributions
00:09:39to public life, to policy making, to... uh
00:09:43improving actual uh services that the government
00:09:46provides to Hungarians on the ground, they're just sitting on the
00:09:50sidelines and throwing verbal bombs and and rhetorical
00:09:54attacks, so it's hard to take these complaints very
00:10:11most of ThiSA voters do and... the the ta party
00:10:14enjoys roughly a 60-70% support in the among
00:10:18voters now, so they have such majority and there's such a
00:10:22public demand for these kind of changes now. the the funny
00:10:25thing is really is that um Peter is employing
00:10:29similar tactics or similar style of governance uh as
00:10:33Fides did as Victor Orban did as in the majority can
00:10:36do pretty much whatever they can he says that it's a temporary thing that
00:10:40he's doing uh until they adopt a new very different
00:10:44constitution eventually probably a year or so um
00:10:47we'll see whether that is the case but currently you can see that this
00:10:51is uh according to what the voters demanded that they want to get
00:10:55rid of fides, this is what unites this camp, obviously
00:10:5970% the uh electorate doesn't agree on
00:11:03every ideological position, but what they agree on is that they wanted to get rid of
00:11:06everything that fid has created, and Peter is from a
00:11:10political standpoint very wise emphasize this
00:11:14and take measures on doing this, even sort
00:11:17of extreme measures or measures that seem extreme from a western
00:11:21European perspective, because this is what
00:11:25unites his camp, this is what unites his political uh
00:11:29electorate and that's what keeps him popular, so he will continue to do
00:11:32this uh as long as uh he can, so that the
00:11:36focus of Hungarian politics is on fighting against Orban, which is very
00:11:40popular fight among most
00:12:06we shouldn't overstate the drama of
00:12:10what's going on in Hungarian public life. uh,
00:12:13certainly President Shuyok had his
00:12:17defenders and he voiced his complaints
00:12:20publicly when Peter and the Tisa government moved
00:12:24to... to
00:12:25uh push him out of office through vote in parliament, it's not like these
00:12:29were any sort of extra legal measures that took, it was
00:12:33just matter the representatives who were duly elected by the
00:12:37Hungarian populist taking a decision that the Hungarian populist
00:12:41supported, lot these moves to me feel
00:12:45like well relatively normal politics, at least
00:12:48a European level
00:12:50when proposes action or a pol
00:12:55people complain if they don't like it or they say yes if they
00:12:59do like it or they stay quiet if they do like it uh and if people
00:13:03don't like it well then he changes his tag as he has for instance
00:13:07in several instances of um removing nominations for top
00:13:11cabinet officials so to me it seems like
00:13:15responsiveness transparency public
00:13:48is, I would, I would say that
00:13:51the, I wouldn't use the word reforms that... you
00:13:55have used earlier, this is this is retribution
00:13:58and this
00:13:59is a government is is a government of avengers, the
00:14:03Peter is using the dismantling
00:14:06the what he calls the urban regime as
00:14:10smoke screen to actually destroy the entire
00:14:13Hungarian conservative national network and and
00:14:17sphere, and this is exactly what is expected of
00:14:20him to do,
00:14:22and is
00:14:25what is happening with
00:14:26the with what you asking about the speed of the
00:14:29reforms, um, we all wanted reforms and
00:14:33and I think this was Victor Orban's mistake that he
00:14:37didn't listen to the independent Hungarian
00:14:41Conservative network that was asking for reform and
00:14:44there was a bubble around Fedes, but what we got is is
00:14:48basically the destruction the rule of law in Hungary and
00:14:52the neostalinist cult of person. against
00:14:56around Peter, this is this is not reform and it should not
00:15:00be should not be called that, and all these
00:15:03comparisons, well
00:15:04this is exactly what what Victor Orban
00:15:08did earlier for 16 years, I don't think they
00:15:11stand
00:15:13the the test of reality, we did not have political prisoners as
00:15:17we do, the offices and and the
00:15:20servers the opposition party have not been raided by
00:15:24Victor. urban the president was not
00:15:28forced out etc etc. so these comparisons
00:15:31of of any sort of existing parallels are are limping in my
00:15:52really, because um, obviously retribution or writing the
00:15:55wrongs the unsian regime was one the major
00:15:59things that the electorate has requested, and
00:16:03well the Hungarian public is used to this majoritarian politics partly.
00:16:07because of what the orban regime has done that basically whatever the majority be
00:16:11the majority of worders or the majority in parliament requires will
00:16:15happen regardless of whether that violates any
00:16:18principle of rule of law, european standards or so and so
00:16:22on, but this has been Hungarian staple in
00:16:26politics since the 90s. Hungary is the only country in the region that
00:16:29didn't have that hasn't had snap elections since 1990, every
00:16:33government in some way shape or form was there for for.
00:16:37years, they were elected for four years, the parliament remained in place for four years, which
00:16:41is unusual in European politics. European politics is usually about lot
00:16:45of coalition disputes, lot of governments just dissolving, early
00:16:48elections being called, Hungary has not been subject to that, the Hungarian
00:16:52public is used to having a stable majority, and whatever the
00:16:56majority says pretty much
00:17:16uh,
00:17:17you know, once governments actually move implementing
00:17:21the promises uh that they make, and this applies not just to Hungary,
00:17:24but really anywhere you have democratic system. uh,
00:17:28the, some people in the populaus uh, will
00:17:32be, not as happy, they the promises and the way that
00:17:36they're kept, the... concrete programmatic uh
00:17:40implementations uh will disappoint some people and so you have
00:17:44people who express their disappointment by uh responding to
00:17:47polls and poll numbers drop
00:17:50uh you know the question i think for pet will be to pay attention to
00:17:54how low his pull numbers go
00:17:57um and how and to
00:18:00you know do course corrections uh if in fact it seems
00:18:04like uh the way that he's implementing these policy.
00:18:08are is impacting negatively his popularity uh in
00:18:12Hungary as a whole and so far there hasn't really been a
00:18:15lot of uh to move the needle uh a a strongly
00:18:19negative direction it's it seems to me like it's just you know some people who
00:18:23are you know not exactly happy with the way that certain
00:18:27policies have been implemented and and that's for
00:18:30petod to to address if it becomes
00:18:51many have been, especially if you listen to the
00:18:55reactions from the European right, from the
00:18:58patriots
00:19:00of for Europe group in the European Parliament and and
00:19:03the party itself, Marine Lepen and and and others
00:19:07have pointed out that the
00:19:11silence the European Union's leadership is completely
00:19:14deathening and how come if if Victor Orban were
00:19:18to do half as much as as as Peter's
00:19:22government, he he would have been ostracized and punished
00:19:25for for doing so, but when when we speak about
00:19:29the European Union, we have to understand it increasingly in terms of
00:19:33its German dominance, and many uh...
00:19:37commentators call what is happening now in in
00:19:41Hungary, the Polish model, obviously they refer to the
00:19:45example of Donald Tusk's government, when they came to power, they
00:19:48raided the public
00:19:51broadcast, they've raised lawfair
00:19:54a judicial overreach against their opponents, etc
00:19:58etc, but
00:19:59I think this is a misconception, this isn't the Polish model, this
00:20:02is a German model, only it has only been
00:20:06in... employed in in
00:20:09Poland for the first time, but if you see uh on the lion
00:20:13immediately committing to releasing all the funds and the
00:20:16Erasmus program for students that have been withheld for
00:20:20many many years in from Hungary because they we
00:20:24had a conservative national government and without
00:20:28any policy changes except for firing people and jailing
00:20:32people uh that then you understand where the EU stands in
00:20:36this and you understand that this is in fact a proxy government
00:20:39sponsored by the EU. Manfred Weber, the the leader
00:20:43the European People's party, has also when when asked about
00:20:47the serious violations of human rights. and the rule of law
00:20:51he said, well he's nothing to see, he has full
00:20:54commitment uh towards Peter, and
00:20:58we had of course Marcus Surder here in
00:21:01Budapest recently, the
00:21:04leader the Bavarian CSU and he was being and
00:21:08was happy and cooing Peter saying how - for the
00:21:12urban government when he's he's glad to see the back and he's
00:21:15welcoming the the new Maj government here
00:21:19so... "I think many
00:21:50it, I'm not entirely sure that it's a a wise move to uh
00:21:54get in bed with Marine Lepen and to claim her support
00:21:58as a mark in one's favor, Marine Lepen is not
00:22:02exactly uh the kind of politician uh
00:22:06whose views are mainstream or even morally
00:22:09palatable uh especially when it comes to race and racism in
00:22:13Europe. Um the thing I would say is that there have
00:22:17been substantive policy changes uh for the
00:22:20better uh in the area of foreign
00:22:23policy uh Victor Ordban uh and especially his
00:22:27for his foreign minister Peterto uh
00:22:31were very very close with uh
00:22:34Russian uh the Russian government with Vladimir Putin we're
00:22:38supporting Vladimir Putin and in fact we're aiding Vladimir Putin
00:22:42in disrupting uh the uh
00:22:45democratic uh rule of law in Europe as a
00:22:48whole uh and that the removal of Russian
00:22:52influence in Hungarian life, the removal of Russian
00:22:55influence more broadly in or putting an extra
00:22:58barrier against Russian influence more broadly uh
00:23:02in Europe, is major shift, and I think that is actually
00:23:06what the European Union is rewarding uh
00:23:10and acknowledging uh by releasing funds and
00:23:14returning Hungary to the Erasmus program, and the
00:23:18other thing is that it's not like you know giving money to Hungary
00:23:22is somehow a punishment for Hungarian citizens, it's what they wanted. Who's
00:23:26gonna who's gonna say uh, well no thanks, well well we don't
00:23:30want those billions of euros uh and no thanks, we don't
00:23:33want a world renowned scholarship and educational
00:23:37program uh, so it seems to me as if the
00:23:40complaints that somehow uh this is harming uh
00:23:44Hungarian citizens is is
00:24:17time to do so um, because state media at least the public
00:24:20television uh has not gotten its new leadership uh and
00:24:24it's not actually doing its job because it doesn't have the right
00:24:28people and it's very hard to find people who weren't associated with
00:24:31the ansian regime so orban's people and
00:24:35also are not considered very political uh on the
00:24:38left-wing liberal uh whatever side you want to call it uh and just
00:24:42recently basically
00:24:45stopped uh the appointment of two uh
00:24:49leaders of uh the Hungarian state television because they're former
00:24:53association with uh Orban's media,
00:24:56so he will have very hard time to do this, and obviously he's
00:25:00also calling this very transitionary and this is going to get to
00:25:04some sort of normal, but Hungary is a small country, it has a small
00:25:08elite and because of that there will be issues
00:25:11of finding personnel, the right personnel who actually know what they do, but
00:25:15haven't been haven't had the experience of working for Orban, at least not for an
00:25:19extended. period of time, but they can do the job, that's going to be
00:25:23very difficult in media and in other aspects as well, and
00:25:27Peter has had trouble finding certain people for
00:25:31certain positions, and obviously until the fall or even
00:25:34later, this is going to be an ongoing process of just finding the right people,
00:25:38trying to find people
00:25:40who who the ta voters approve of, who can do the job and who are not
00:25:44associated with the ans regime, and this is going to be difficult thing
00:25:47that T and Peter are continuing to. try to
00:26:18i'm not very optimistic, i think the
00:26:21precedence that he set in the last three months are are a course for
00:26:25worry, and it's not just some sort of a right-wing or conservative of Fides
00:26:29propaganda, the internation.
00:26:34human rights organizations have criticized left-wing organizations of
00:26:38Peter's removal of president and and
00:26:42of all places the German left-wing
00:26:45establishment press have
00:26:47have criticized him, but I think in there's
00:26:51one thing that that captured me in Victor
00:26:55Orban's recent speech in in Romania is when he said
00:26:59that we are not only defending the legacy. the
00:27:02last 16 years of conservative national
00:27:06governance, we are defending what we have built up
00:27:10since the end of communism in the last 36 years, and that
00:27:14is exactly how I feel about this, this is what is happening
00:27:18now is an existential threat to a
00:27:21Hungarian democracy, and I
00:27:24think at the whole thing will change and the
00:27:28balance will change the first day the Americans actively
00:27:32start. to criticize
00:27:34the the Peter government because he
00:27:38is already becoming a liability and an embarrassment
00:27:42to his sponsors in in Germany and and Brussels, but the
00:27:45American administration's criticism will change the
00:28:02be seen. uh and I think the speech that Daniel was referring to was by
00:28:06Victor Ortiban, did you say, I think you might have said it was by
00:28:08Peter, but those words certainly sound like they were Victor
00:28:12Ortiban's words in Romania, um,
00:28:16the remains to be seen, and and actually I agree with
00:28:19Danielle that that NGOs, civil society groups in
00:28:23Hungary, it's going to be their job to criticize the
00:28:27government when it does wrong, to hold the
00:28:31government accountable to... principles like the rule of
00:28:35law, freedom of speech,
00:28:38transparency and democracy, that's certainly going to be the job
00:28:42the European Union as well, ideally, and
00:28:46the international community, that's what is happening right
00:28:50now, and I would certainly like to see more that going on
00:28:54into the
00:31:29With dozens of towns occupied and the south still under
00:31:33attack, will Israel remain in Lebanon?
00:31:36Representatives from both countries and the US return to the table for
00:31:40seventh round of talks in Rome, but with Hesboolah refusing to
00:31:44disarm until... Israel leaves, while Israel refuses to leave
00:31:47until Hezbulah disarms, can peace talks really
00:31:51succeed? I'm Andrea Sanki and today's newsmaker is
00:31:55Lebanon.
00:32:12Well, it's obvious you have to manage expectations when a... negotiator
00:32:15says, peace talks shouldn't move too quickly. that
00:32:19is not what hundreds of thousands of displaced people want to hear.
00:32:23desperate to return home, some have made their way back to villages left in ruins
00:32:27in southern Lebanon, with occupying Israeli forces never far
00:32:31away. it's added more hardship to the country marking six
00:32:34years since its capital city was virtually destroyed in the
00:32:38Bayrut port explosion. so while Lebanon's people remain as
00:32:42resilient as ever, will they actually get the... peace and
00:32:45accountability they deserve. Here's a
00:32:48look. The latest Israel lebanon
00:32:51talks aren't about negotiating another peace deal.
00:32:55They're about assessing whether the one already agreed can actually
00:32:59work. For the first time since 1993,
00:33:03Israeli and Lebanese officials have been meeting directly
00:33:06marking diplomatic breakthrough after decades without face-to-face
00:33:10talks. But turning that breakthrough into peace may
00:33:14prove. are more difficult. At the heart the framework
00:33:18is faced Israeli withdrawal from southern
00:33:21Lebanon. The first test is series of so-called pilot
00:33:25zones. Under the plan, Israeli forces would gradually
00:33:28withdraw. The Lebanese Army would take over security and the
00:33:32model would then be expanded elsewhere. But after weeks
00:33:36of negotiations, only one pilot zone has been
00:33:39implemented. That slow progress reflects
00:33:43the deeper problem. free stage the framework depends on another
00:33:47one. Israel once hasbullah disarmed before completing
00:33:51its withdrawal. Hezbulah insists there will be no
00:33:54disarmment while Israeli troops remain inside
00:33:57Lebanon. The talks also exposed one the biggest
00:34:01gaps in the process. Hesbullah remains outside the
00:34:04negotiations and rejects the very premise it's built
00:34:08on. We consider that all direct
00:34:12negotiations with Israel have brought nothing but shame.
00:34:15humiliation, disappointment and continuous
00:34:18concessions. The divisions are not confined
00:34:21to the negotiating table, Israeli military operations have
00:34:25continued across southern Lebanon, raising concerns that
00:34:29implementation remains far more fragile than the agreement
00:34:32itself. The UN interum force in Lebanon continues to
00:34:36observe daily Israeli violations of Lebanese
00:34:39airspace. Between Thursday and Sunday, peacekeepers recorded
00:34:43125 air violation. with a combined total overflight
00:34:47time exceeding 418 hours.
00:34:51surveillance and arm drones were observed near or above unifill positions in both
00:34:55sectors. peaceekeepers also report extensive military activity
00:34:58on the ground in south Lebanon, including significant engineering works and
00:35:02active troop movements. for displaced lebanese, that's delaying
00:35:06any return to normal life. some families have gone back to
00:35:10their villages, many others are still waiting with Israeli
00:35:14troops.
00:35:21We can say that the matter cannot be measured in terms of time,
00:35:25but rather in terms of solutions, and the solutions are very
00:35:29complicated when it comes to completely withdrawing Hezballah's
00:35:33weapons from within Lebanon. The issue goes beyond the
00:35:36national sphere. It may even have regional dimension.
00:35:40Therefore, I believe
00:35:42that the timeline for the Israeli occupation. will be a long
00:35:46time, the negotiations have reached a new
00:35:49stage, the diplomacy and the conflict, however
00:35:53still appear to be moving on two very different tracks.
00:35:57so our Lebanon Israel peace talks a positive trajectory
00:36:01or just barely maintaining lull in this war. well joining
00:36:48sumed up the major problems in Lebanon, so I'm going to
00:36:52try as much as possible to in a few
00:36:55seconds to answer that, I mean, "the way
00:36:59what we reach at this point is say series of state
00:37:03collapse, regional intervention, decades
00:37:07of mismanaging
00:37:11public affairs, but now we are a very critical
00:37:14moment, I think an era is ending in
00:37:18south lebon the way we know it, but we are transitioning to something
00:37:21that's not very clear yet and it's being forced
00:37:25imposed by force." whether the Israeli force
00:37:29and the US support for this force and
00:37:33this is might bring some temporary
00:37:37resolution but it's not gna bring a long term and now
00:37:40Lebanon is in limbo is waiting for US Iran basically
00:37:44talks and we have these talks in Rome as you mentioned this
00:37:48week without clear road map maybe we have we will discuss
00:37:52it later in details but I think all the
00:37:56problems now uh I mentioned are
00:37:59really the culmination of it is what's happening in in
00:38:03South Leben at this
00:38:28"well they're working as they're supposed to work, which is to
00:38:32reaffirm Israeli-American superiority
00:38:35and and sovereign control over South
00:38:39Lebanon, and forcing the Lebanese government
00:38:43to comply with what Israel wants, so in
00:38:47that respect they are working. most the world doesn't think, I
00:38:51think most the region and much the world doesn't think this is a really
00:38:54fair and legitimate and equitable
00:38:58process and like the board of peace
00:39:02in in Gaza and some
00:39:05the things that were developed with
00:39:09Iran and the US under American pressure,
00:39:13these are not serious peace
00:39:16processes or movement towards
00:39:19a mechanism for peaceful
00:39:23coexistence in the long run, unlike say what you saw in Northern
00:39:26Ireland. or southern africa which did lead to an
00:39:30equitable peace, so in that respect, no, they're
00:39:33not, they're not real progress in the
00:39:37long run, and they, but if they can spark
00:39:41push by all sides to get to the
00:39:45next stage that is more equitable, for instance, the Lebanese
00:39:49should determine where do the Israelis with draw from in phase two, in
00:39:53phase one, the Israeli said we're getting these
00:39:55out areas, some of which they didn't even occupy. phase two, maybe
00:39:58lebanon should say, well these are the villages you got
00:40:01to get out of, and these are the areas you have to stop bombing.
00:40:05something like that could rectify the imbalances now, but
00:40:09that rarely happens, but we'll just have to wait and see, the Lebanese are very
00:40:12talented people, but it depends on whether the US comes
00:40:16down equitably for Israel and Lebanon or
00:40:20continues to push a process that favors what Israel wants. so
00:40:24you're saying
00:40:25that the pilot zones could... somehow
00:40:28spark the real progress, but there's
00:40:32this overlying concern that, well Israel has definitely
00:40:35highlighted this, that Hezbolah will try to return
00:40:39to these pilot zones, once it's established that the
00:40:43Lebanese army is in control, do you
00:40:47see that as as something quite possible, or
00:40:50is are you suspicious that Israel is looking for excuses to either
00:40:54stay as an occupier or be able to
00:40:57to return later, um, the, hizballah is
00:41:01issue, but it's not the issue, the issue is
00:41:05the tensions between zionist colonial
00:41:09expansion, american support for that, and
00:41:12inadequate, lebanese and arab government systems
00:41:16and foreign manipulation interference in
00:41:20the region since the 1920s, that's the real problem,
00:41:24so the hezballah is willing to... make like
00:41:28Hamas and Palestine is willing to make reasonable
00:41:31concessions if the core root
00:41:35the problem is addressed which is Israeli occupation
00:41:38and
00:41:42was born to push back Israel to get them out of Lebanon, they
00:41:46weren't born for anything else.
00:42:27tell you when it's probably not going to
00:42:30happen, and this is between now to October
00:42:3427s, until the the elections in Israel,
00:42:37because what the current government is
00:42:41doing is looking at every strategic
00:42:44question from you know through the lenses
00:42:48the balloting boxes
00:42:52to the elections and right now there are
00:42:55still having a problem convincing the
00:42:59communities in the israel there was a kind of
00:43:02symmetry that we're doing between
00:43:06the israeli refugees that had to
00:43:10leave their homes during the war that started
00:43:14all this and started the reoccupation of
00:43:17southern Lebanon, and they are also
00:43:21demanding some kind of guarantees
00:43:24from the current government that it will not happen to
00:43:28them again, there are still people who moved to
00:43:32the center of Israel and they are not back yet because they
00:43:36don't feel safe, so Netanyahu right now...
00:43:40is looking every morning at the polls
00:43:43and he's not happy with what he sees
00:43:46and probably the good
00:43:50news is that in October
00:43:53we will have another government that will look
00:43:57at the Israeli international relationships
00:44:01and public relations of Israel a different
00:44:04way, different from what Netanyahu was suggesting
00:44:08a super sparta. he said in on the in the
00:44:12kness that he sees himself as the
00:44:15Israeli churchill that
00:44:18offers kind
00:44:21of blood tears and
00:44:25sweat with no deadline
00:44:28and the other problem is that even the
00:44:32Israeli opposition, the leaders the
00:44:35parties that will probably be in power are not
00:44:39mentioned. anything about withdrawal from lebanon
00:44:43or even talking about the two state
00:44:45solution, there is no leadership
00:44:49that is suggesting a deadline for the
00:44:53Israeli occupation and timeline, they are
00:44:56talking about sequence, first they have to stop terrorism,
00:45:00first we have to this make sure that to
00:45:03disarm and the
00:45:06hamas, but they don't offer anything, yeah the... blaming
00:45:10government for outsourcing Israel security,
00:45:14outsourcing to the Lebanese government, to President Trump
00:45:18when it comes to Iran and to the new
00:45:22peace council in
00:46:24regardless the emotion and ideological
00:46:27differences that are very, at the high level
00:46:31and lebanon, for me, I like to focus on how the policies
00:46:34are, obviously we have now
00:46:38two visions of for. One is betting
00:46:42on what's happening talks, the other one is betting
00:46:46on on the talks direct directly with Israel through yes
00:46:50mediation and can reach a very
00:46:54clear solution. now we have a framework
00:46:57agreement,
00:46:58we have especially security and you mentioned the pilot
00:47:01zones, they don't address the core of problem which has
00:47:05been in the last two years since the last fire in november
00:47:092024 is how you deal with the issue of disarmment and
00:47:13withdrawal. they tried the step by step, natanyaho government
00:47:17refused, now they are trying to violent
00:47:19zone. "there are
00:47:22some structural problems in the security annex that makes the
00:47:26the framework agreement unable to reach that, it's gna stop at some point
00:47:29because
00:47:31Israel withdraw,
00:47:33neither g, and there are no mechanism to force them to do this, so the agreement
00:47:37was was signed on the assumption that hizballah will voluntary
00:47:41accept, because neither Israel government
00:47:44can disarm by force as we saw in in the
00:47:48last year, so it's a very complex issue part of..."
00:47:53it it has to related to decision because the US
00:47:56Iran talks, part of it are libanese Israeli, long
00:48:00decades of of
00:48:03tension, especially what most
00:48:07ofeses perceive as continuous
00:48:10Israeli aggression as we see in the last strick in Beirot just
00:48:14before the last spire, and we have problems inside Lebanon, which is the
00:48:18relation between the government and Hazbullah, how it will be
00:48:21after after. Yeah, these stocks or whatever is happening
00:48:25on the border, so those are all complex issue, but but the
00:48:29framework agreement presented by the US now in this
00:48:33talks doesn't dissolve resolve the same, the core dilemma or the
00:48:37core problem, what's happening in
00:49:02linked. They're not only linked in short-term that the Iranians are
00:49:05insisting that the fighting stop in Lebanon for the
00:49:09US, Iran uh and Israel, Iran fighting to
00:49:13stop, they're linked a very much more important
00:49:16and older way, which people in the west,
00:49:20and I think in Israel uh... probably, but akiva can tell us more on
00:49:24that, the people don't understand very well, the
00:49:27the in the middle east today that are
00:49:31most active in resisting Israel in the
00:49:34US are Lebanon, Palestine,
00:49:37Iran. What do those four
00:49:41countries have in common? They are the countries that probably have been
00:49:45more ravaged, manipulated, occupied,
00:49:48humiliated, and and overall '
00:49:53beaten up by western and or Israeli
00:49:57colonial interventions in the last 120
00:50:00years,
00:50:01Iran, and Yemen, it's
00:50:05not by accident that these countries
00:50:09together continue to push back, and and
00:50:12for and saying, you can't
00:50:15forcibly disarm somebody like Hisballah,
00:50:19because they've tried it in Leban, in Gaza with H. with a
00:50:23massive force destroying gaza and they've
00:50:27tried it in Iran and it hasn't worked, you
00:50:30so if if the Israelis and
00:50:32Americans and and
00:50:35Palestine, they're not going to get anywhere in Lebanon, that's why they've
00:50:39come up with this sort of make
00:50:43believe political process in
00:50:46Lebanon starting in Rome, which is nice place to start buse,
00:50:50it's a great place to visit, but now... they're really not
00:50:54getting anywhere very significant because they're running up against the
00:50:57core issue of of hizballah has to
00:51:01be involved any negotiations like the Vietnam war like
00:51:05the Taliban war and like Hamas was eventually you've got to sit with
00:51:09Hizballah and the Lebanese government all together. I don't think the
00:51:12Lebanese government and Hizballah will have a problem in reaching an
00:51:16agreement ultimately. The problem is more with the Israelis
00:51:20and the and the... and
00:51:23possibly the Iranians, but yes,
00:51:51part of this greater israel. that one would hope with
00:51:54the next election will be diminished, but how
00:51:58serious are the chances that it won't be diminished and Israel has every
00:52:02motivation to keep holding to the land it's taken
00:52:05believing it is
00:52:06theirs,
00:52:11the Israeli people have lost faith in
00:52:15the
00:52:15in the kness, in the government, and this
00:52:19is, as I mentioned, this is something that
00:52:23hopefully will change in October,
00:52:26but we hope that the next prime minister will
00:52:30probably be the best chances is Gady
00:52:34Isencore. who was a chief of staff
00:52:37and i know him quite well and i
00:52:40believe that unlike Netanjal he
00:52:44doesn't believe that the name the game
00:52:48is catch as much as you can territories,
00:52:51if the hizballah will
00:52:54strike the Israeli northern communities
00:52:58then we will occupy 5 kilometers
00:53:02then if they strike the Israeli forges
00:53:06or they undermined the Israeli
00:53:09occupation along the new line, then we
00:53:12capture more land, this is the
00:53:16same thing they are doing in Gaza,
00:53:19holding more than 60% the
00:53:23territories of Gaza, and in the West Bank, next year we
00:53:27will mark 60 years to the occupation the west
00:53:31bank, and if you ask the Israeli, "the
00:53:35average Israeli, who most them were born after
00:53:3867, born into the situation of
00:53:42occupation, they will tell you that we can't afford to give
00:53:46up territories, because this is the only guarantee
00:53:50we have for our security,
00:53:54they will tell you, no, we are not interested in territories, it's all
00:53:58about security, now you
00:54:04know that there is..." something else that they can lose, it's not
00:54:07just security, and security is not
00:54:10equal to territories, as
00:54:14Rami said, this is colonialism, and colonialism is
00:54:18bad for me, is bad for my children, because
00:54:22the Palestinians or the Lebanese, more than
00:54:26300 thousand people, including
00:54:28children, and old people will not forget
00:54:32what's happening
00:54:33in 26, it will take the... decades to come to
00:54:36terms with the existence of Israel and to believe the
00:54:40Israelis that what is not what
00:54:43Netanyahu was suggesting an extra
00:54:47large sparta
00:54:49okay and peace initiative waiting
00:54:53for us on the shelf and we just need to pick it
00:55:484th that went from downtown to the port and and
00:55:52you see the families of of of those died on
00:55:56that day and you see that after six years, it's
00:56:00not about what the the state did do or
00:56:04not do, but what allowed to happen that you have those
00:56:07natural basically that crossed all the security
00:56:10person personnel in the airport and arrived, until
00:56:14now not one person was was
00:56:17detained, not one press conference by any government official to explain the
00:56:21process, there's now an indictment, it's going through
00:56:25clearance, there's now public pressure to
00:56:29released by the end the year, we are hearing that maybe
00:56:32there are 70 might be indicted. It's it's gna be
00:56:36across political class, not only one
00:56:40one major political party, we have in
00:56:432019 the collapse and all the
00:56:47what happened, so we we have a state basically who
00:56:51killed this people and let the financial collapse and is
00:56:55unable to to have clear foreign policy and protect the
00:56:58border, so this is defining moment I think for the garden government,
00:57:02for the garden president to basically allow...
00:57:06to have some to make sure that there's a
00:57:10trial and to make sure that this can repeat
00:57:14again because It's hard
00:57:17to imagine, I think uh, what the big of explosion was
00:57:21on August 4, 2013, yeah, and it it could prove a unifier if
00:57:25handled finally with real accountability, but
01:00:14Hello there and a warm welcome to TRT World. You're... watching the news
01:00:18hour live from very hot Istanbul with me, Neil Harvey. Coming
01:00:22up in the next 60 minutes, Iran and Oman appear close to deal on
01:00:26the straight of Homus, they've agreed, we here on coordinates for sh
01:00:29safe shipping roots. Donald Trump is also optimistic, he says he prefers
01:00:33diplomacy over war. US broker talks in Israel and Lebanon, they've now
01:00:37wrapped up in Rome. Security borders, prisoners were expected to be the
01:00:41topics of discussion, but it hasn't stopped the ongoing violence. Israel again has struck
01:00:45southern Lebanon and accused Hezballah. being the one to violate the cease
01:00:48fire. Israel's forces have also been active in the occupied west bank. they've
01:00:52detained dozens more palestine.