Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00not to cancel a strike that it had called days ago, long before
00:00:03it was known that
00:00:05been in accordance or has not this accident happened on October 16th, because it considers that
00:00:09the reasons for continuing with this strike are more alive than ever, and it is
00:00:12that according to this union, many points have not been completed, many of them related to
00:00:16railway safety, these were reached
00:00:19at Madif and with the Ministry of Transport
00:00:22after the accident of Demut that happened
00:00:25six months ago. Thank you, Manu Alonso, from
00:00:29Totxa, let's do something, let's collect from the explanations of
00:00:32Minister Puente and other data we know, this accident that happened just
00:00:36over 24 hours ago, Oscar, yes, Ariana, this is what
00:00:40we know right now about how the events unfolded, let's start at
00:00:437:54, which is when the first train leaves
00:00:47Madrid for Totxa, it is Lirio with number
00:00:5160-76 that goes to Andalusia with
00:00:54if it is not used, and then 147 passengers on board. Minutes later at
00:00:578 o'clock, the Renfa AVE leaves, it is train 2080 with destination to
00:01:01Seville with about 400
00:01:03but it's all a maintenance problem, passengers, between 8:30 and 8:32,
00:01:06the next step the LZB security system falls. There is a
00:01:09computer variation of communication between equipment of this
00:01:13system, according to Oscar Puente, the affected section is
00:01:15about 63 km, here we have, there are six trains that
00:01:19are automatically stopped, hmm,
00:01:22it is this system. the LZB with a system
00:01:26failure that interrupts the normal circulation of trains and that forces, as we said, the control center of ADIF in Totxa in Madrid to
00:01:30assume the management of this incident manually,
00:01:34human. Yes, and what happens from here, from this point, then
00:01:38we go between 8:30 and
00:01:418:36, this is
00:01:43suffer a punishment, people must
00:01:43there are works, which is one of the big the next step, the trains
00:01:46ehm, let's say, I stop and the control center intervenes, the operators contact
00:01:49the affected trains and tell them how to act with the system. main
00:01:52theme out of service, according to the minister, there was a red
00:01:56signal that prevented resuming the march normally. At
00:02:008:36, here we have it, the AVE is authorized to
00:02:03resume the march. This is the key moment of this
00:02:07reconstruction. The minister states that from the control center the Remfa
00:02:10train is authorized to resume circulation normally,
00:02:13even though it was not appropriate to do so, according to Puente, the
00:02:17train should have circulated with the "march at sight" procedure, that is, with a...
00:02:21maximum speed of 40 km/h the possibility
00:02:24of stopping before any
00:02:26of this infrastructure obstacle, this is what Puente calls
00:02:30is clear that a... an area, a metropolitan "unexplainable". Next moment, let's go to
00:02:35that I've made you, that I've made you wait 8:42, 8:43 which is when the AVE effectively
00:02:37resumes movement, the train starts to
00:02:40accelerate progressively and covers about 25 km.
00:02:43Puente considers that the control center should have had time to detect the error. Here
00:02:47we arrive at the culminating point, which is the last one, it is
00:02:508:53 in the morning yesterday, there is the collision at that
00:02:54moment at the height of Urda, this is the province of Toledo,
00:02:58the Renfe AVE impacts from behind, here we have seen it
00:03:02against the Lirio that remains stopped on the track,
00:03:05several cars, as we see, derail, some
00:03:09Lirio wagons fall down the embankment and the AVE locomotive
00:03:13also leaves the track, these are the facts
00:03:16waiting for the investigation to clarify
00:03:19and shed more light on this and also clarify the responsibilities of
00:03:23everything, thank you Oscar, digas, ton and
00:03:26have all the necessary Laura and yes, look, above all, now when pointing to the minister's statements about there being
00:03:30inexplicable things, people themselves must understand that
00:03:33it is not that they do not understand it either, that is, that in these cases there are inexplicable
00:03:37things, it really bothers a lot, before you interviewed Mr.
00:03:40Cárdenas, he said a phrase that seemed very
00:03:45so that this section of important to me, that a human error means that the technical system
00:03:47has failed, it seems key to me. that is, because if
00:03:50we resort to human error we can agree, but what
00:03:53we must demand is that the AVE does not depend on a human error, that is
00:03:57to say that there is the technique, they have told us that it is the AVE, it is the type of
00:04:00train with the most investment that exists, they tell us that not in maintenance but
00:04:04yes in infrastructure and therefore I believe that this is important, he also
00:04:08got angry because there had been the leak, it seemed to me
00:04:12when you interviewed him that he was angry about the leak
00:04:14Puente a week ago was on late-night of the audios because I believe that it does not leave the control in a good place
00:04:17in this case or does not leave in a good place the... what happened, what he described as the command post, therefore, it is normal for the
00:04:21citizens to look at all this bewildered and worried and for there to be
00:04:24a great wear and tear on what is an infrastructure like the train and a means of
00:04:28transport like the AVE that today people may not feel
00:04:32naturally as he assures yes, I am in the same line, of course, from
00:04:35the beginning, from the first moment, Minister Puentes comes out to indicate not
00:04:39this human error and I believe that he does it for several reasons: the first
00:04:42surely is because he controls information that had not yet reached the citizens and the second
00:04:46surely because everyone... the retina at that moment Demuz, that is,
00:04:49the accident of the month of January, only nine months ago,
00:04:53which has not yet been resolved but that all ehm well it
00:04:57generated among the citizens also among many experts. a strong questioning
00:05:00about the investments in the maintenance of the high-speed lines, especially after
00:05:04the liberalization that took place in
00:05:08know, you pointed out 2021 which implies that on a single infrastructure
00:05:10more trains circulate and what all the data seems to indicate is that
00:05:13the investment in maintenance has not
00:05:17been compensated with the greater use that these lines produce, right? I think that
00:05:21at one point, Mr. Amorós, good morning, president of Fermet, is this statement
00:05:24you share? Yes, yes, yes, I share it in the sense that
00:05:28ehm... normally, normally, ehm, I mean,
00:05:31it depends on the countries, but all the investments that are made every
00:05:35year, ehm, normally, about 30%
00:05:39is maintenance, ehm, in Germany, I think it's 31%, in France
00:05:42it's 28%, here it's 15%, mm,
00:05:45clear, this is the problem, I think there is a whole
00:05:49mistaken approach to the Spanish railway
00:05:52network, it is very clear that what should be done is not being done.
00:05:56traffic, a high-speed network has been built, let's say, that does not have the
00:06:00traffic that there is between Paris and Lyon, for example, no, you say: listen, why do
00:06:03you have such a large network here
00:06:07moreover, this is an enormous investment and considerable
00:06:10maintenance, how many millions are
00:06:14we talking about for maintenance per kilometer of high-speed tracks, do you have that data?
00:06:17I don't have that precise data, I don't know, honestly now I wouldn't want to
00:06:21be mistaken, but I... maintenance cost of maintenance per
00:06:25kilometer of high-speed line, well, the
00:06:28exact figure I don't know, I know it is one of the lowest, I know that annually
00:06:31in maintenance these AVE lines
00:06:35invest around 400 million euros, but that is in recent
00:06:38years, before it was less and that there is a report from the European
00:06:45Commission that indeed
00:06:48denounces that on average the investment is below the minimum and that it
00:06:52is situated in maintenance at around 15%, right?
00:06:54The thing is that
00:06:58think there are two different optics, right? One thing is to know
00:07:02exactly the specific causes of this accident, which forces us
00:07:05to apply a kind of specific magnifying glass and another
00:07:08is the whole that indeed ehm, well,
00:07:11Spain has been updated, Spain has
00:07:15invested a thousand million updated, in the
00:07:19AVE investment, right, which...
00:07:22one moment, Laura, Laura, finish the argument briefly and then I'll come to the frame, very quickly, that
00:07:26I believe that this is precisely the reason why Puente comes out talking about human error,
00:07:29trying to dissociate what happened with Demut, that surely we have to make
00:07:32another approach in line with what you were also suggesting now,
00:07:35in relation to maintenance when there has been a greater use
00:07:39and this human error that would have occurred yesterday according to the
00:07:43audios would accredit that there was indeed a human error, but what happens is that
00:07:47these audios only solve a part of the unknowns of... what happened does not
00:07:50solve everything for us, that is, obviously, ehm, we don't know
00:07:54why ehm, neither the driver nor the
00:07:58operator would have respected the protocols, this is one of the questions
00:08:01we can ask ourselves, why did the supervision mechanisms fail, if they exist, because I also have doubts about how
00:08:05this works, why did they fail? That is, can a single person make all the decisions and there is no
00:08:09one, no structure that supervises that this is really the case, that is, the
00:08:13audios would point to this thesis of human error, but even so, there are many
00:08:16unknowns around why. this human error occurred, in addition to the technical failures that
00:08:19we should resolve, I suppose this requires time, now
00:08:23we need immediate answers, we will not have them surely, I think that
00:08:27well for me it is really very difficult today to make an analysis on this
00:08:31topic, first because I don't know
00:08:33enough, second because because we don't
00:08:38information to make a good analysis, no, I just wanted to point out three or
00:08:42four things, no, eh and that perhaps you will help me
00:08:46to resolve them, no, the first is:
00:08:50I think annually there are 44 million
00:08:54trips, let's say in Spain
00:08:57by AVE, let's say, they are many, two, it is the country that
00:09:00has most quickly liberalized the entry of other operators
00:09:03in Spain, there were six trains in a section that I don't know exactly
00:09:07how long it is, 60 km, 60
00:09:11km, there were six trains, this goes as if it were, I am a regular
00:09:14consumer, let's say, of the AVE in Madrid and this goes like a...
00:09:17it goes practically like a subway in the end, to understand each other, let's say, and
00:09:21then eight minutes, a railway source told me, it should pass every seven
00:09:25or eight minutes, the AVE, ok, but it's just that there are many, that is, seven
00:09:28or eight minutes to understand us, railways in the Generalitat,
00:09:32five minutes, railways, for example, in
00:09:35France, there is a density still, still
00:09:39railways in the Generalitat, now he was telling me it's 2 minutes,
00:09:427-8, between two minutes and 7-8 for a journey of...
00:09:46many kilometers and at this speed, well, maybe we do have to do a
00:09:50bit of rethinking, not so much with the investment, which surely
00:09:54also, but with the fact of considering, let's say,
00:09:57if we are prepared for so many trains, let's say, at the same time
00:10:01and then, well, but I, excuse me, you who are an engineer, you who are president
00:10:05of Fermet, I understand that yes, the network is prepared for the
00:10:08trains that pass. The
00:10:13issue of the number of trains depends, let's say, on the speeds, if the
00:10:17speeds are homogeneous you can have trains one behind
00:10:20the other, now when you mix trains, as for example happens with the line
00:10:23that goes from Barcelona to the border, that freight trains go at 100 and passenger
00:10:27trains go at 200 or 3 then you automatically brake the
00:10:30capacity of the line, but I definitely think that here there
00:10:34has been a mistake, ehm, a system
00:10:37failure, no matter what they say, eh?
00:10:40That is, obviously, ehm,
00:10:44if they tell a gentleman to go ahead, it is because they consider that the system works
00:10:47and the system does not work, because these systems are
00:10:51sufficiently safe so that the train stops, that is,
00:10:55if there is an obstacle in front, the train stops, the other train does not
00:10:59start either, I mean, ehm, here it is... you can say whatever you want,
00:11:02but the system fails and what cannot
00:11:05be is that a system like this does not have enough backup,
00:11:08I fly continuously, but I am relatively calm because I know
00:11:12that everything is tripled, eh, if one thing fails, the other
00:11:15one finishes it, here with a system like this, well, it has
00:11:19to be whatever it is,
00:11:22of course there are plane crashes, with more deaths than this, if
00:11:26we compare, if we compare we also have to see a little, but in proportion to the
00:11:29number of trips, there are many fewer plane crashes, I think that a
00:11:32little, let's say, with what little is known, insisting that one must be very
00:11:35careful, I believe that Oscar Puente is hasty because he has an
00:11:38interest in saving his own skin, that is, not being
00:11:42responsible, then making an easy metaphor, it's as if
00:11:44one has a deposit in which water is being spilled
00:11:48in large quantities and in the end you end up saying that the last
00:11:51drop is the one that... caused the spilling that causes the
00:11:55problem, no, here there is a problem ehm of a
00:11:59systemic failure of that line at that moment, there are several
00:12:02security systems that do not work, partly because
00:12:05they are being replaced and therefore
00:12:08problems, I don't know what you think, but
00:12:12ehm, the entire Spanish railway network, we have the problem that
00:12:16works are being done while everything apparently functions normally, which is a
00:12:20guarantee that sooner or later strange things will happen to you, right? Well,
00:12:23the thing is that it is clear, there are ehm,
00:12:27I think horrible maintenance vacancies,
00:12:30and especially on conventional lines because they have
00:12:34dedicated a lot to high-speed issues
00:12:37and, well, you just have to look at the Barcelona
00:12:40commuter trains, today it is something that is an absolute shame, no, no, no,
00:12:44it is not acceptable that this happens, eh, and we will talk about how long it will take
00:12:47to fix it, eh, because it is clear, there is such a huge deficit that they don't
00:12:51say it, eh, they don't say it, but it
00:12:55region that 100 years ago had 1.5 million and now has six
00:12:58million, nothing has been done in 100 years, in 100 years
00:13:02eh, only one connection has been made with the T2, only one bypass has been made
00:13:05behind the TIBA so that nuclear waste would not pass, this is what they have done,
00:13:08gentlemen, and then it turns out you say that they still cut the
00:13:11Caldes de Montbui line and then you say: listen, and now
00:13:15what should we do? We have made a calculation of at least to put this,
00:13:19let's say, so that people have 50%.
00:13:22with people being able to go by train on the commuter lines, we
00:13:25need at least 30,000 million to fix this, eh, yes,
00:13:29yes, it is logical that on a day like today everything is questioned, also
00:13:33high speed, the thing is that these two accidents, not the one in Hilda de
00:13:36Muz, are on a line that is not underutilized, that
00:13:40is not a line, let's say, criticizable, that was a necessary
00:13:44line that has been working for almost 40 years that was the first
00:13:48line that was made, the one that was made for the...
00:13:51in a way from a very centralist, megalomaniac
00:13:55political logic on the part of Aznar's governments, no, that
00:13:59obsession, I remember because at that time I worked in Madrid to
00:14:02unite Madrid with all the provincial capitals
00:14:06and not with a logic of efficiency because it is
00:14:09evident that this line we are talking about, Madrid-Seville, was
00:14:13necessary. that the line was absolutely necessary and is being
00:14:17absolutely profitable, but so was
00:14:21the Valencia-Barcelona line here, in this
00:14:33case, due to a simple question of
00:14:36sectarianism, not against this idea of the Catalan Countries
00:14:40that neither the Spanish right nor some left
00:14:44and centralism like, well, this has not been done,
00:14:47no, there has been very little self-criticism, very little
00:14:50self-criticism. from the political forces, especially
00:14:54state ones, about how it has been done and how it has been conceived and how
00:14:58it has been embraced again in the case of
00:15:00high speed this radial structure that has also
00:15:04caused, as you said, that, for example, due to an investment
00:15:08issue and because, let's say, no
00:15:11government has in a basement the
00:15:14machinery for commuter trains and the Mediterranean
00:15:18corridor, no, but Mr. Amorós, a question then, from all this, what we are
00:15:22hearing today, today, little with all this but that we have no idea and the
00:15:25technicians have told him that not to Mariana, therefore there is an important plan but the idea
00:15:29is questions from those who
00:15:33what he said, the lamentable state
00:15:36of maintenance of many infrastructures, Mr. Puente when
00:15:40what happened in Demut happened, eh, he
00:15:43said that this was statistically very improbable because 30
00:15:45years had passed and nothing like this had happened, but now 9 months later
00:15:49this has happened, ehm, tell us something to
00:15:53reassure us or quite the opposite regarding whether this is repeatable,
00:15:56eh, because if the system is in a lamentable
00:16:00maintenance state, there are works that are being done but that at the same
00:16:04time can generate problems, etcetera? Ehm, what
00:16:07happened yesterday or what happened in Demut can happen again,
00:16:10explicable as but despite the statistics,
00:16:14it is, well, eh, obviously, you can never
00:16:18say no, but I think it's difficult for something like this to happen
00:16:22again if the systems are made to work properly, eh,
00:16:26because you already have high-speed trains all over Europe working everywhere
00:16:29and these very serious accidents haven't happened for many
00:16:33years, that is, but
00:16:36ehm? We've had two something different has happened,
00:16:40look, the Demus issue was a
00:16:44track that had been badly made, eh, but
00:16:47not yesterday, not yesterday, but yesterday is a problem of the Demus
00:16:51investigation still open, 10 months
00:16:55later, nine months later, the investigation is still
00:16:58open. Ehm, Mr. Amorós, thank you very much, by the way,
00:17:02some data, some data that the morning team has prepared for me,
00:17:05eh, yes, certainly in recent months the investment has increased.
00:17:08ADIF has made in maintenance, especially after this Demus accident in
00:17:12Córdoba, let's remember, at the end of January, 46 people
00:17:16died then in this collision with two
00:17:19trains that were circulating on different
00:17:23tracks. If we compare it with the
00:17:25investments made in other countries, we see that the expenditure on high-speed in the period
00:17:282018-2022 from the last available report in
00:17:31Spain for every 100 euros invested in high speed 16 are for
00:17:35maintenance, renovation, improvement of the network, the rest 86 euros
00:17:39for constructing more infrastructure and in the case of
00:17:43other European high-speed, which we pointed out in France,
00:17:46ehm, the maintenance expenditure
00:17:50reaches 34%, a proportion that is even
00:17:53greater in cases of Italy and Germany, these are data to reflect on, thank you,
00:17:57Mr. Murós, you,
00:18:01ehm, I greet you here, yes, let's go to the
00:18:04four weeks, four slices that remain for the elections of 29N,
00:18:07ehm, Toni Rodón, good morning. Good morning, good, how are you? I know, Toni,
00:18:12with him, with the political scientist professor at Pompeu Fabra
00:18:15University, eh, let's talk about this impact that some pundits here
00:18:18were pointing out before, about the impact that this accident,
00:18:21this tragedy, 68 dead, eh, and it is a provisional
00:18:25balance, this accident in Toledo, this
00:18:28campaign and in the government of Pedro Sánchez, I will only say one thing,
00:18:31yesterday here I interviewed the minister vice-president of the Spanish government Carlos
00:18:34Cuerpo. Eh, we learned the news, yesterday he learned it live when
00:18:39I told him about this last minute, there were a few minutes until half past
00:18:42nine, he left with all his team
00:18:46very, very worried, without knowing yet what was the basis of this accident,
00:18:49we'll get to it right away, thanks Rodon, ehm, don't leave, eh, we'll address
00:18:53the issue right away. Every week more things happen than
00:18:56you think, premieres, concerts,
00:18:59exhibitions, books, we
00:19:03explain it. An island, and eight pairs
00:19:07of famous people. The wilder
00:19:10Mallorca will be pushed to the limit.
00:19:14Only one couple will survive until the
00:19:18end. Here fame is useless.
00:19:21I've had to win the
00:19:25Tramuntana expedition
00:24:20These are live images from Los Yébenes, it's
00:24:23the place where these two large cranes
00:24:26are still working to remove the
00:24:29scrap metal. They will surely have days, weeks of work
00:24:35the high-speed line between Madrid and Andalusia returns
00:24:39to its normality amidst these olive groves. Some of the
00:24:42people we were able to talk to, for example, Jordi Quintan, who was traveling on this
00:24:46train, told us minutes after the accident what he had seen.
00:24:50listen to what he was seeing, he told us "I'm in a field with cows, with
00:24:53olive trees," and there we already knew that there
00:24:56was a first number of dead people, ten,
00:25:00a number that needs to be updated because all the authorities
00:25:04point out it's only a provisional balance, 68
00:25:07dead people, more than a hundred injured. This provisional
00:25:10balance will increase, this evidently has a
00:25:14political pre-campaign transfer for the
00:25:17electoral pre-campaign for... the elections on November
00:25:2129th. Professor Rodon, good morning, Toni,
00:25:25good morning, how are you? We were talking just a week ago about last week's
00:25:29jokes and we were analyzing what the point, the finished photo, was
00:25:32at that moment of a very tight electoral pre-campaign, many
00:25:36issues, what we could not foresee obviously is that it would also be
00:25:39crossed, and now I will ask you what you think will be the basis
00:25:42of this impact for this railway tragedy, which is not
00:25:46the first this year because it comes after the Demuz that already led
00:25:50to a political storm and very harsh accusations from the
00:25:53opposition, precisely against the minister, Minister Puente. When you heard
00:25:57this news, I understand you made a reading as a political scientist that
00:26:00you are. What did you think?
00:26:04Well, several things, obviously, one cannot escape the emotional impact that
00:26:08these crises, these issues have, but politically
00:26:12it is true that this changes the panorama a bit, the
00:26:16rhetoric and the political media discourse of
00:26:19these days, especially because train accidents or infrastructure
00:26:23and transport accidents are somewhat different from
00:26:26accidents that can be of another nature, not, for example, natural disasters
00:26:29or other or even terrorist attacks. Why? Because people
00:26:33don't interpret it as an uncontrollable event, that is,
00:26:37it attacks or speaks directly to the capacity that
00:26:40governments have to avoid it and therefore to manage it, to prevent it, as you
00:26:44were discussing at the table, right? And here
00:26:47different facts are mixed. The first is that in general terms, during a legislature, during four
00:26:51years, accidents usually happen, in fact, there are even
00:26:54those who say that when a politician's job is to manage crises,
00:26:58right? And that this will happen
00:27:02reasons. These crises, in general
00:27:04terms, people tend
00:27:07emocional, sinó l'hora de traslladar-ho en el vot, la qüestió és que eh,
00:27:11the different issue here is that, as
00:27:15per les per les eleccions, estem ja en precampanya i per tant això
00:27:19és difícil que la gent doncs oblidi l'hora
00:27:22some people responsible
00:27:25or not. Here is where the key lies, the proximity and this
00:27:29second factor, as we learned well from the studies
00:27:33that were done for
00:27:37research we have on natural disaster crises,
00:27:40here the key is that for the governing party to
00:27:46hold the government responsible for the event that occurred.
00:27:49This doesn't always happen, it's not an immediate issue, and in fact,
00:27:53notice that, as you were discussing at the table, a part of the governmental
00:27:56rhetoric is to try to attribute responsibility to a
00:28:00human error, something that is part of the governmental structure,
00:28:03but goes beyond management, right? Therefore,
00:28:07to the extent that voters see that the management
00:28:10has been bad, the governing party, in this case, the PSOE,
00:28:14will not have it easy, or could suffer a certain setback.
00:28:18In fact, yesterday, when it was 3 in the afternoon, Minister
00:28:21Puente appeared, and he is the first person from the Spanish
00:28:25government, beyond a reaction that Vice President Carlos Cuerpo had here
00:28:28directly in this interview for "Els Matins", who, since we had no information, logically, said
00:28:32nothing. Ehm, 6 hours
00:28:35after the events, Minister Puente is the first person from the Spanish government to speak.
00:28:39He is the minister in charge, he is the Minister of Transport, and the first
00:28:42question, the first question was, "Do you intend to
00:28:45resign?" This also means, I mean, this
00:28:49also shows where we are. All this on a day
00:28:53that ended, we saw it, with only
00:28:56statements from the opposition attacking the government of
00:28:59Sánchez, but also with protest concentrations that started
00:29:03yesterday after this accident and with
00:29:06some police charges, for example in Madrid, with
00:29:09far-right protests, Toni,
00:29:13Toni Toni, who I also have here today again. The problem, well, apart
00:29:17from the drama, obviously, and the government's management, is the context, and in the
00:29:21context, when you say the first question they ask Oscar Puente is
00:29:24devastating, but it is also understood in the context we are living in,
00:29:28right? He is a minister who, well, without this context, surely this question would not have
00:29:31been asked. It would not have been the first, but it is
00:29:35also true that perhaps with another minister, we don't know if they would have asked him that question, right?
00:29:38Oscar Puente is not just the Minister of Infrastructure, he is a standard-bearer
00:29:42of the PSOE, he is, he is also one of the most important
00:29:45shock people that the PSOE has had with
00:29:49his adversaries, and it is true, yesterday you saw it on social networks,
00:29:52you see that from the official profiles, for example, Núñez Feijóo yesterday was
00:29:56demanding, but contained, I would tell you, it goes without saying, but on
00:30:00his networks and digital environments that you build, you already see where you are going
00:30:03from the official profile of the PP, it was already seen that it already
00:30:07pointed to a responsibility of the government, ehm, until
00:30:11others reminding you that Minister
00:30:16jokes about trains,
00:30:20about that he is a person who is very active on Twitter, and
00:30:23all this by itself would not be a problem if what happened
00:30:27had not happened, that is, you can understand that there is a minister who has this shock
00:30:31ability, ehm, of a polemicist,
00:30:34ehm, of a showman, etcetera, if things were going well, but a disaster of
00:30:38these characteristics happens, and the logical thing is that
00:30:42you ask the politicians why they are there if at the highest level they do not have to respond to
00:30:45such a situation, two, that the opposition goes directly to him because if the
00:30:49head fell or if they cut off the head politically of a minister like
00:30:52Puente, the fact is that it would mean much more and more in a campaign context,
00:30:56I believe that this context will obviously suffer wear and tear.