Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00when an obstacle is detected, the track also
00:00:03monitors the position, so we can know where the trains are
00:00:06as well as their speed, but as we said, it allows
00:00:09for automatic stopping if there is an obstacle on the track. If the system
00:00:13fails, this automation disappears, everything is left in the hands
00:00:17of the train drivers and the controllers at
00:00:20Atocha. At 8:36,
00:00:23the AVE is authorized from this Atocha control center, after a
00:00:27communication that we will now hear with the train driver, to
00:00:30resume circulation, and let's keep one
00:00:33thing in mind, it tells him to do it
00:00:35normally.
00:00:39Cercatocha train driver, is it train
00:00:422080? Yes, 2080 at
00:00:4508:36.
00:00:49Yes, this says train driver
00:00:52in
00:01:00two but eight but
00:01:05eight. If we do it in the case of disconnect disconnect and reconnect
00:01:07the
00:01:14LZB LZB and resume
00:01:17march and resume the march under the protection of the
00:01:20BSL under the protection of the BSL with
00:01:24normal march with normal march, okay, all right
00:01:28then, later tell me when you take it, okay,
00:01:33carriage of a speech where we have
00:01:35heard "normal march" and a long speech where we hear
00:01:39the train driver forcefully when he is given
00:01:41orders, but the controller's
00:01:45voice has moments
00:01:48image, which is an aerial that are more hesitant, but let's focus now on this
00:01:50communication that is at 8:36 and what happens at 8:43, a few minutes after
00:01:54this authorization with normality, well, the AVE starts
00:01:57circulating, let's remember that there were... 5 km
00:02:01between the AVE and the IRYO, the AVE starts
00:02:04circulating, but it does so at normal speed, that is,
00:02:07this section is authorized up to 200 km/h, it is not doing it
00:02:11ticket, well, at this moment by sight, what does "by sight" mean? Up to a maximum limit of 40
00:02:14km/h, for a logical reason, at 40
00:02:18and also the part of the teeth, that is, km/h, a train driver who does not have an automated system,
00:02:21if he detects an obstacle in his environment, is capable of
00:02:25detecting it and perhaps braking with enough
00:02:28distance so that... nothing happens with this
00:02:31obstacle that may be on the track.
00:02:348:43, the AVE starts
00:02:37the tone, the final tone of circulating, but two minutes before and this is also important, there is a communication between IRYO, which
00:02:41is stopped further ahead, and the control
00:02:45that she cannot reconnect the center.
00:02:48the person and second to establish the cause of 60-76, Atocha here, behind from the AVE good morning, good
00:02:51morning, I had a transmission loss at
00:02:5440, I have been circulating in BCL, I passed through the next CDI
00:02:58at 113. 200 but I did not get transmission, I am stopped
00:03:02at the entrance signal of Urda, okay, it is
00:03:05stopped at the entrance signal indeed that's right
00:03:09we close, we change the signal and take note to
00:03:12notify it okay when
00:03:15you want, okay give me a second while we close the
00:03:18signal
00:03:25we change the aspect of the same okay and now we
00:03:27notify you, we do not authorize you to pass, okay,
00:03:30so pay attention to the signaling and I pass you to my colleague,
00:03:45yes,
00:03:49no, okay, okay, well, look, train driver with
00:03:52775, 775 at
00:03:5608:41, at 08:41.
00:04:00Atocha train driver, we are with 6076,
00:04:03right? Yes, that's right, okay,
00:04:05well,
00:04:08one moment, this says
00:04:12train driver of
00:04:15train,
00:04:176076,
00:04:206076,
00:04:21disconnect
00:04:25and reconnect,
00:04:26and reconnect the
00:04:29LZB system
00:04:31the LZB
00:04:34system and resume
00:04:37march under the protection of the
00:04:40BSL with
00:04:44normal march
00:04:49okay perfect well thank you very much then when the differimeter is finished
00:04:52we continue in BSL okay perfect thanks
00:04:56see you now
00:04:59you have heard again "normal march", in this case an order for the
00:05:03IRYO train driver, let's remember that it is an order that at
00:05:068:36 had been given to some trains and that is why the AVE had
00:05:10started circulating here we have heard a long
00:05:12conversation between the IRYO train driver who is unable to start her
00:05:16train, but she doesn't know that meanwhile the AVE is
00:05:19already circulating, that's why it was at 8:41, at
00:05:238:48 we have another communication
00:05:26from IRYO with the control center, it is a shorter communication,
00:05:30but in which she reaffirms that she is still stopped and cannot
00:05:33continue her journey.
00:05:36676.
00:05:42This
00:05:50sequence
00:05:59from just before 8 in the morning we know that it ends around
00:06:038:54 with this crash, with this accident, and I want to
00:06:07show you this image to understand the magnitude of the accident
00:06:11because if we start counting how many cars each
00:06:15train has, they should have
00:06:18the IRYO, we can count that there are six cars that are more or less
00:06:22on the track and that two of them have fallen on the ground. If
00:06:25we count in the case of the AVE, we do it from top to bottom, this way would be
00:06:29towards Seville and there would be Madrid. So the AVE came from that
00:06:33direction. We can count six, one
00:06:36is destroyed and the eighth is not there.
00:06:39Analyzing all the images that have arrived these eh these. in the last
00:06:43hours I want to show you this other one that is
00:06:45shocking. This is IRYO, we can recognize it by its
00:06:49red tones, which would be the last
00:06:52car that the AVE encounters before impacting it, and the
00:06:56first car of the AVE, which is the one we are missing in this
00:07:00Civil Guard image, we cannot have it with more quality
00:07:04it is inside this last
00:07:06wagon, this allows us to understand that this
00:07:10normal march that could have been at... this point that was
00:07:13authorized up to 200 km per hour allows
00:07:16us to understand that perhaps this crash occurred at 200
00:07:20km per hour and that it entered like a projectile inside the last
00:07:24IRYO wagon, there are many questions about what
00:07:28happened during this hour between 8 and
00:07:319 in the morning, also questions about the security system
00:07:35and Sara, the latest news is that it is a security system that seems it is not the
00:07:39first time it had failed in recent months, well yes, in
00:07:42fact, the Cerc radio station has just reported that the Urda railway
00:07:46section has registered nine signaling failures since the end of
00:07:49May 2024 until now, this year 2026 it has failed four
00:07:53days, two of them due to cable theft, these are official data from DIF, in
00:07:572024, the Railway Accident Commission already asked to take measures
00:08:00for the high probability of a human error like the one that would have caused
00:08:03yesterday's accident, which has left so far 89 fatalities, let's remember, what
00:08:07we are seeing is precisely the first tweet that talks about...
00:08:11May 29, 2024, informing
00:08:14of a delay on the line due to signaling problems,
00:08:17notice between Urda and Malagón, eh, this new
00:08:21incident, the next tweet, is from 2025 due to an incident in the
00:08:25signaling systems that also caused delays
00:08:28in the service, we finish this sample of incidents of the
00:08:31signaling in this section with this message, the next one, which is from July
00:08:352026, therefore, eh, they
00:08:39would not seem isolated events. Yesterday
00:08:42itself, in fact, a user, we can see the tweet, complained that her train, which
00:08:46was doing this route between Madrid and Seville, had braked, according to the
00:08:49tweet, braked and stopped suddenly more than four
00:08:53times in just 10 minutes, she lamented that nobody had
00:08:56informed them of the causes of these stops. We finish with a last-minute
00:09:00information that you are already seeing at the top of the screen, a Wigo
00:09:03train, the train that makes the route between Murcia and Valladolid has stopped
00:09:06at the height of Aranjuez due to a problem with the catenary, published by the official Wigo profile
00:09:10less than fifteen minutes ago. no personal damage has been registered
00:09:14and in fact, Adif has just published that they are also working to
00:09:18solve this new incident, let's see Andreu with everything
00:09:21we have explained so far, eh, a first
00:09:24assessment after the audios and then we will also go into what is
00:09:28happening today because as things are, I don't know who will dare to take a
00:09:32train, excuse me, eh but goodness gracious
00:09:35yes, eh here the first thing I would highlight
00:09:38is what you highlighted before that in two
00:09:41years there were accidents. Besides, experience always shows that
00:09:44these things always warn, um,
00:09:48now we have all this narrative of accidents or previous
00:09:51incidents, they counted up to nine, we also had the
00:09:55Adamus accident, we had the
00:09:57well,
00:10:00yes, yes, all in less than a year, and then this should
00:10:04lead to reflection first of all, these moments I hope that
00:10:08they will immediately do everything necessary.
00:10:13to improve safety in all senses, the
00:10:17Demus accident was a problem with the
00:10:20rails, yes, and then also. One
00:10:23could go into the detail of the three
00:10:26safety systems that exist, which are
00:10:29the LZB, the BCL, the
00:10:33ASFA, the ASFA and why each of them failed, but well I would also
00:10:37like to look a little bit in perspective
00:10:39in perspective, well, eh, what happens
00:10:43because when several things happen throughout
00:10:46the geography of the state there is a common factor here and that is what
00:10:50they have, what is it that they have? What common factor
00:10:53is this? Um, I would highlight that Spain
00:10:56is the second country in the world with the most
00:11:00kilometers of AVE after China and
00:11:03this has been talked about for many years, since Germadel's book was
00:11:07published, which has all the data
00:11:09and there are many lines that are loss-making, many
00:11:13lines are loss-making, that is, they were built for political reasons
00:11:16basically, um, they connect provincial
00:11:19capitals, not for profitability, not
00:11:23for
00:11:25serving the client, but basically for political reasons and the issue is to
00:11:29reflect, I'm not saying they should be closed, but if they
00:11:32are maintained, there cannot be a drop in safety
00:11:36levels. If it is true that it costs a lot to maintain infrastructures like
00:11:39these, because, of course, if they are so many and a country in the world with more
00:11:42infrastructures, with more, with more kilometers of AVE,
00:11:46it surely costs a lot to maintain it, but eh, if they want to
00:11:49maintain them, they have to invest enough so that something like this
00:11:53never happens again. Eh, for example, eh, Councilwoman
00:11:57Paneke, I discovered the concept of ghost trains with Councilwoman
00:12:00Paneke, as a result of the case of, well, that all the
00:12:03tracks were stopped and ghost trains were put into circulation that basically
00:12:07are trains where there is no one and they serve to detect where there are
00:12:11problems as an extraordinary measure, I'm going to China
00:12:14now and one of the things I've discovered is that in China I will use the high-speed train in
00:12:18China Elena and one of the things I discovered is that since the high-speed
00:12:21lines were built in China every night. a
00:12:25ghost train is called maintenance, what Andreu was telling you, eh, I also want to say
00:12:29something else in relation to the audios, eh, we
00:12:32have all been very impacted by these audios because, as we commented,
00:12:35one of the train drivers, the AVE one, is dead,
00:12:38correct, um, after listening, that is, after the LZB
00:12:42system failed, as Minister Puente said,
00:12:46this is exceptional but it can
00:12:49happen, of course, I understand that in an Atocha
00:12:52control center the attention must be maximum, maximum
00:12:56because this system has failed and because there are trains
00:12:59circulating,
00:13:02the IRYO train driver in relation to the
00:13:06person who is giving her instructions is
00:13:10LZB system, she cannot start the train,
00:13:13he replies: well, if you have problems,
00:13:17call me, yes, of course, this strikes me very much and calls my
00:13:21attention very much because we are at... a moment of maximum
00:13:24tension in this area, I'm sorry and I add what
00:13:27Elena says and we even hear eh in another
00:13:31connect, disconnect and reconnect disconnect, a
00:13:34total improvisation, but of course this is a total improvisation, it's not that I
00:13:38don't know it because we are not experts and therefore that's why we ask
00:13:41you about it, this is strange,
00:13:44mm, well, I guess that
00:13:48no, I've never been to one of these control centers, but basically it
00:13:52doesn't seem normal to me, the improvisation, but of course I wouldn't
00:13:56want to think about that poor controller who is there seeing that things are going
00:13:59badly, um, but about the protocols, I mean, this
00:14:03is not that, but as engineers, exactly, that is, as engineers, that is, okay,
00:14:07imagine that this gentleman, well, if you have problems, call me, okay, but it's
00:14:10that all the technology that is working in this
00:14:14center, how come alarms don't start ringing? It cannot depend on the
00:14:18decision of one person and these are the protocols that must be in place and it
00:14:21should not allow a person to improvise in this way. Because
00:14:25it is true, it is, I think it is evident if you look, from the information we have and the audios
00:14:29we have, some errors, you say restart the march when
00:14:32all this seems a bit like connect, disconnect, eh, what is this, I mean,
00:14:36dir,
00:14:39it is really eh
00:14:41that there may have been a
00:14:45conditional human error, but it is that we are already in
00:14:48another phase, the technology, why
00:14:51don't they stop the AVE, why doesn't it stop
00:14:55suddenly because the AVE already detects an obstacle
00:14:58ahead, things indeed, I mean, first when in any case
00:15:01in case they decided to restart the march with a manual system because
00:15:05it is recorded that the LZB system, which is the one that allows
00:15:08automatic braking with automatic control, was not working, it can be
00:15:12restarted in these cases, the march can be restarted but with
00:15:16a safety speed that is usually about 40 km per
00:15:19hour, this is "march by sight" yes, "march by sight" with the
00:15:22traffic light system which is the BCL.
00:15:25And, but of course, it says "normal march", "normal march" means 200 km per
00:15:28hour, I mean, everything fails here, eh, Andreu, we are facing
00:15:32the public transport system of Spain, how
00:15:35is it possible that there is no... a second program for when
00:15:39the first one fails so that the human part doesn't come in, because with everything that
00:15:43is at the level of a private company, when the
00:15:47first security system fails, everyone,
00:15:49everyone has a second system and precisely there are
00:15:53audits that are fundamental and even more so today with technology and there is
00:15:57another basic, fundamental issue which is the continuous
00:16:00training of all those people who participate in the process,
00:16:04thank Andreu Canals very much. for having
00:16:07been able to accompany us, we will try to resolve doubts during
00:16:11the program because effectively with the failure of the
00:16:15LZB system, as Marc Guadilla was explaining, at 200 km per hour,
00:16:18an AVE stops being a train to become a projectile, let's take a short
00:16:22break at this point and immediately we start listening to testimonies until now.
00:22:36Roger Redia has also just joined the table Roger. Thank you for
00:22:39joining us, as an expert also in security, after a
00:22:42tragedy like this, you will help us understand
00:22:45how all these recovery tasks are carried out. The
00:22:49work of the forensic experts, Andreu here is very grateful that he wanted to continue
00:22:52with us because, more or less, all the people
00:22:56who were also or who already had a train
00:23:01they are reconsidering whether to take a train or not, now also this
00:23:04incident that has occurred with this Iryo train in Aranjuez
00:23:08and surely some of you yesterday after this tragedy and
00:23:12now I'm going to ask Andreu the question,
00:23:15we can ask ourselves if we have to take
00:23:18an AVE, is there a safer wagon?
00:23:21eh, I don't think it has been studied, but well, basically I guess what we all say
00:23:25is that it is evident that the front wagons are the ones that, from what we have seen in the
00:23:28images of the different accidents around, well, the one that receives the first
00:23:32impact. Then of course we have seen that the IRYO is the one that receives the blow from
00:23:36eh I don't think it has been studied but
00:23:40basically eh more towards the back or in the
00:23:42middle, the central wagons, not in the
00:23:46sense of the center, it is clear that in front but it is a matter of probabilities, I mean, you can be in an
00:23:50accident anywhere, but we are seeing the images, Roger
00:23:53Edia, he is explaining to us the immense
00:23:57tasks that the emergency teams are doing, we have
00:24:01also seen the cranes how they have worked since yesterday morning all
00:24:04night cutting eh the wagons,
00:24:08removing scrap metal, trying to find human
00:24:11remains as well, there are many missing people, it is understood
00:24:15that it is known where these people were going,
00:24:19um how... do these moments work? First of
00:24:22all, mm, from the police, forensic and judicial
00:24:26action, what needs to be done is two things: the first: the ocular inspection of the
00:24:29causes, that is, at a judicial level, there is a secret summary and a judicial action that
00:24:33coordinates the action of the forensic doctors, the scientific police, and what we are seeing on one
00:24:36side is the action of how these three groups are trying to lift these
00:24:40wagons, trying to recover if there are human remains to collect biological
00:24:44remains, and how they are working, how they do this, well, with professionals, currently
00:24:48there are more than 800 personnel working.
00:24:50of which are health services, of which are more than 100 personnel from the
00:24:54UME, more than 400 personnel from the Civil Guard, more than
00:24:5850 personnel from the National Police and what is the objective first, as I said, with the dogs, with
00:25:02the drones, to be able to recover all the victims and human remains, therefore,
00:25:05ocular inspection and recovery of remains, on the other hand
00:25:09the ocular inspection of the causes, we have seen that many drones are used
00:25:12to try to create a virtual tour with high-resolution
00:25:16scanners to be able to know what has happened with coordination also with
00:25:19the... railway accident investigation commission, but above all it is a
00:25:23judicial action that is being carried out, therefore, you have also seen
00:25:27that the Civil Guard yesterday through its criminalistics
00:25:30service made the call to be able to eh create five centers with
00:25:34which families that are family care areas with which
00:25:37they have to go to file these reports therefore
00:25:41report the disappearance of a family member and then collect the
00:25:44biological samples for what, well, as we have said many times Elena, what is being
00:25:48done at this moment, we have confirmed 69 victims, this figure
00:25:52may increase, this morning we had a total of
00:25:5564 reports of disappearance, this will surely
00:25:59also increase, what is done? with this attention to families? what is
00:26:02done is to take photos, description, objects they were carrying, elements that are
00:26:06identifying, antemortem information, before
00:26:09death, post-mortem information at the scene of the incident, bodies and
00:26:12human remains are also recovered. What needs to be done, well, there
00:26:16is a protocol that coordinates the action with the forensic team. Currently, we have
00:26:20about 25 forensic specialists, that is, judicial committees at the scene of the incident.
00:26:23These are teams formed by scientific police and forensic
00:26:27doctors coordinated to be able to carry out the action at the
00:26:30scene of the incident. In addition to these bodies, I believe there are 54 bodies
00:26:34that have already been taken to Toledo, to the Forensic Institute
00:26:37to be able to perform autopsies. We believe that when there is an accident
00:26:41of this type, these deaths are qualified as
00:26:44violent, so there must be a judicial investigation, there must
00:26:47be an autopsy, and that is what is being done. So, in these cases
00:26:51of great catastrophes with many victims, there is a coordination protocol,
00:26:54as I said, at the level of judicial action by forensic doctors
00:26:58and scientific police to be able to help with this
00:27:02coordinated action. It is planned to create a data
00:27:05integration center, okay? A data integration center with a responsible
00:27:08office for forensic doctors and another for the police in total
00:27:12coordination and communication. Why? To be able to be more agile and faster
00:27:16in identifying these victims, excuse me, Roger,
00:27:19that the families
00:27:22ask for their DNA because, of course,
00:27:26we have seen the images that Marc presented, which is a train at
00:27:30200 km per hour crashing
00:27:33inside the the train. So
00:27:37there, mmm, few
00:27:40people, that is, I'm sorry to be so graphic
00:27:43now, but there will be remains, they won't find more
00:27:47people, I suppose that's why the DNA is for, to be able to identify
00:27:50these remains. Uh, the important thing, as I said, is the part of the
00:27:54recovery of bodies and human remains. From here, what types of
00:27:57identifications will we ask about, how these people can be identified, right? I think we've
00:28:01said it quite a few times. It's Interpol that sets the reference level for
00:28:05identifications. It says that first by fingerprints, you know that fingerprints
00:28:09are completely variable between people. This allows for a
00:28:12quick identification by comparing with
00:28:15police databases, and from there also DNA,
00:28:20these three ways,
00:28:23the part of the fingerprints, the DNA, the part of the teeth are
00:28:26identifying elements that Interpol recognizes. From
00:28:30there, if the person wears a prosthesis.
00:28:43from the scene of the incident with the coordination of the autopsy room where all
00:28:46this study will be done, first to identify
00:28:50death in a tragedy like this, are remains found
00:28:54everywhere or can it happen that no remains are found
00:28:58and then the person is listed as missing and
00:29:01what are the consequences? This also ends up having, and then there's another question
00:29:05I wanted to ask you because I was reading it today in the newspapers, and I think
00:29:08all of us, more or less, have done it sometime when we've gone on a train, that sometimes
00:29:12you go with people and some are sitting here and others on another
00:29:16side, we get together and in the end we see that here there are empty
00:29:19chairs, also how many times this can
00:29:22either help or on the contrary, be an impediment to
00:29:26the search efforts. Look, first of all, Elena, we are talking about an incident where we know the people
00:29:30who are inside when you buy a ticket.
00:29:33It's clear seating, the advantage, so to speak, of being able to approach identification is that it is a
00:29:37closed list. We know the people who are inside with identification. We are
00:29:40facing an incident, you see that there was also no fire, that is, why do I say
00:29:44fire, if there had been a fire possibly these remains would have suffered
00:29:48degradation, this would have hindered identification, excuse me,
00:29:51Roger, as users uh, I'm sorry but identification
00:29:55with the ID card is not done, uh, okay, well yes, I'm telling you because there are little things that come to my
00:29:58mind, I always show the ticket, but they take it for granted that I am the person.