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00:00:22All right, you're still watching TVC breakfast, great conversations we've had in Lagus,
00:00:26now
00:00:26of let's take you all the way to the center of unity where we have.
00:00:35take the conversation, thank you so
00:00:39much, it's good to be back here again this beautiful thursday morning and of course
00:00:43we're standing by with the brief, good morning
00:00:46of
00:00:47a nigerians, it's just one more day to tgiif, thank god this
00:00:50friday, good morning nigerians, nice to have you here
00:00:52of with us, now the national policing on bill is steadily
00:00:56moving from
00:00:57of proposal to practical consideration with the establishment of a presidential
00:01:01working group making another important phase in
00:01:05Nigeria's effort to strengthen law
00:01:07in enforcement and
00:01:08of improve public safety. as conversations continue around the structure,
00:01:12funding,
00:01:12a overside and implementation
00:01:14of the proposed reforms, attention is increasingly turn into
00:01:18what must happen next to ensure the process
00:01:21delivers meaningful results for citizens across the country. now the
00:01:25work before the presidential working group goes beyond drafting
00:01:28recommendations. It involves balancing constitutional
00:01:33of provisions, engaging critical stakeholders, addressing operational
00:01:36realities and building a policing framework capable of
00:01:40responding to today's evolving security
00:01:43challenges. The success
00:01:45of the bill will ultimately depend on how effectively
00:01:49these responsibilities are carried out and how broadly
00:01:52consensus is built around the proposed reforms, to
00:01:56help us explore the priorities before the
00:01:59of presidential work. group and what they
00:02:01of could of mean for the future of policing in Nigeria, we are
00:02:05joined by Nadubem Mohalu,
00:02:08of senior special assistant to the president on planning and
00:02:12research. He joins us to discuss the expectations surrounding the
00:02:16national policing bill, the key milestones ahead and
00:02:20the broader vision driving this important national
00:02:24initiative. It's good to have you on the program, this
00:02:27morning. Well, if state. policies are
00:02:30constitutionally empowered to establish their own
00:02:34police, why should the federal government still dictate
00:02:38national policing standards? doesn't that uh defeat the
00:02:42various sense of state
00:02:44police? good morning and thank you very much for having me on this
00:02:48morning. um, the federal minimum
00:02:51standards, national minimum standards
00:02:54is the way we prevent this entire thing from
00:02:58descending into complete and absolute. with
00:03:00anarchy,
00:03:04we have to be clear about what problems we are trying to solve
00:03:08with the idea of state policing or the idea
00:03:10of the dual police structure in
00:03:13a Nigeria, the first problem we are trying to solve is
00:03:15of numbers problem, that is
00:03:17in to say we just do not have enough police
00:03:20of officers to police the population and the geography of
00:03:23Nigeria, but beyond solving the
00:03:27numbers problem, we
00:03:29of also... what are trying to solve capacity problem? what
00:03:33i mean by that is beyond
00:03:35of the numbers of police
00:03:36of officers
00:03:37you you have, what is the capacity
00:03:38of the people that are actually doing policing in the
00:03:40country? you cannot solve the capacity
00:03:44problem without having minimum national
00:03:48standards, minimum national standards around recruitment
00:03:52of for example, what type of person are you recruiting into the police
00:03:55force, what are the minimum academic
00:03:59qualification? ations: we don't want to end up with dw policing
00:04:03structure where you go to one state and
00:04:05you have graduate police officers, you have capable police officers and
00:04:09then you move to another state and you have
00:04:11a rag tag militia doing policing, that is not in anybody's
00:04:14interest, so the federal government has
00:04:16a responsibility to make sure that yes, states will control their own
00:04:20policies, have direct responsibility for the policing services in their
00:04:24states, but everybody will be operating from a minimum
00:04:27standard textbook. mind you, is a minimum standard
00:04:30a textbook, it's
00:04:31not a silling, so states that have the capacity, the desire
00:04:35to go far beyond and a far above the minimum standards,
00:04:39will be free to do so, but we have to make sure that there is a
00:04:43flaw below which no police service in the country will ever
00:04:46fall. now uh, going by what you just say, we're not
00:04:50just looking at uh uh having a dual policing structure, we're actually
00:04:54looking at an entire reform
00:04:55of the police instructure in Nigeria, whether it is national or the state
00:04:59police. Now what are those fundamental structural changes
00:05:03you will expect that should be in this
00:05:06reform so that our police at the end
00:05:11of of the day can operate? so we don't just have a dual policy
00:05:15structure, what are those fundamental, whether it is welfare, whether it is
00:05:19capacity, whether it's technology, what are those things that must be in this reform you're
00:05:23pushing for, so if you go on the national policing bill.com
00:05:26website, which we have set up as a public information
00:05:29portal to allow nigerians to follow this process,
00:05:33but also to participate in this process through the submission of
00:05:37memoranda, if you go on that website you will see that we have set out
00:05:4117 thematic areas. uh in this bill,
00:05:44essentially these 17 thematic areas cover the scope of all the
00:05:48issues that will be considered in drafting this
00:05:51legislation, and if you look into that into the issues that were
00:05:55addressed in the in
00:05:56the in those thematic areas, all the
00:06:00things you've talked about, rank equivalence, welfare of police
00:06:04officers, the nature the training of police officers, how do you
00:06:07structure regulation, how do you structure the regulatory internal regulatory
00:06:11systems? policing, how do you recruit police
00:06:15officers, how do you discipline them? what is the disciplined infrastructure that you're
00:06:19putting in place? all these things are what will go into the national
00:06:22policing bill. essentially
00:06:26uh, think about it this way, right? the constitutional review, the constitutional
00:06:30amendment opens the door to a dual policy structure, but
00:06:34when you get into that room, what does that room look like, who sits where, who
00:06:38does what? how do the people in that room cooperate with each other? that is what the...
00:06:42national policing bill is going to address,
00:06:46so um, one major concern that has been
00:06:49expressed by many Nigerians across board is the fear of
00:06:53abuse by governors. now what is in this bill or what
00:06:57concrete safegards you see that this bill would have that will make
00:07:01political abuse practically impossible,
00:07:05especially by big political figures and not just legally
00:07:09prohibited? the the only tool
00:07:12tools available to government to control
00:07:15behavior are the tools of legislation,
00:07:19regulation, the enforcement of those regulations and the
00:07:23creation of incentives, that's those
00:07:25are the tools government has available to
00:07:26it to try and influence the behavior of people. in the
00:07:30constitutional amendment that has already passed in the senate and the house of
00:07:33representatives, there are express
00:07:36explicit prohibitions against abuse
00:07:40of state police services by
00:07:43uh state governments and political office
00:07:45holders. the constitutional amendment also
00:07:49provides a provisions for what happens when
00:07:53there is an established case of abuse by state police
00:07:56services. there is a provision for federal intervention to
00:08:00conduct investigations, control what is happening there, dismantle the systems
00:08:04and rebuild them if necessary. so we have already put
00:08:08in the fundamental checks into the constitution,
00:08:12but those checks will then operate in practice is is part
00:08:16of also what we then have to deal with in the national policy so what in
00:08:20what case or in what scenario guarantees a
00:08:23federal intervention how grievous does it have to be under the
00:08:27current constitutional amendment federal intervention can happen a number of
00:08:30ways uh the governor the state can request federal
00:08:34intervention to say we are not able to police
00:08:38uh
00:08:39our uh our state at the moment
00:08:40for any number of reasons maybe there
00:08:42has been a a breakdown of law and order, there's some sort of conflict or crisis that has
00:08:46happened that has that is beyond the capacity the state police service, the state governor
00:08:49can in that situation make an appeal to the federal government say
00:08:53come and support us, but where there are where where there are complaints for
00:08:57example against the state police service itself, complaints relating to abuse of
00:09:01power, abuse of authority, ethnic or political
00:09:05persecution, or the president under the constitutional amendment that has
00:09:08been proposed and that has passed in the senate and the house, the president can't
00:09:12direct uh an intervention under those circumstances, but the intervention
00:09:16intervention under the circumstances will be limited, targeted to
00:09:20address whatever problem, it's not a, it's not an opportunity
00:09:24or excuse for federal government to take over state police
00:09:27services or to take us back to where we're trying to come move away from,
00:09:31but you need to have that as a it, everybody in
00:09:35the system needs to know that this exists as a break part as
00:09:39a break point right, that if this happens something... will happen,
00:09:42there will be response, and the response is that the federal government can step in to
00:09:46take corrective action. okay, there is this
00:09:50provisor that says it's not just automatic that every states will
00:09:53just go and have a states police, it say they can
00:09:57able to demonstrate that they have capacity to have it. now is the
00:10:01working group and besaging a situation where if state
00:10:05a for instance does not have the capacity and state b has the
00:10:08capacity, so state a might now be haber for criminals that.
00:10:12and threating the existence of of state b, so is that a
00:10:16funding structure that is put in place that is guaranteed probably from the
00:10:20federation accounts so that direct line charts or or funding the
00:10:24police? so that that's a minimum level that every state must have
00:10:28the state police, then if you want to go beyond certain
00:10:31limits, it's that depends on your own capacity. okay, so the arithmetics of
00:10:35funding, we are still working on the arithmetics of funding,
00:10:39and we will make sure that we provide that information to nigerians when we have clarity as
00:10:43to how and what will be the requirements will be. now as to the issue of
00:10:47creating security gaps that allow criminals to operate, we
00:10:51have designed this such that those gaps will never exist, the... an
00:10:55police force, which will become the federal police service under the
00:10:59new constitutional arrangement, does not
00:11:02disappear, so there will still be federal
00:11:05police presence in every state dealing with federal
00:11:09police crimes, because mind you, you still have distinction in
00:11:13jurisdiction, right, crimes, things like cyber like
00:11:16terrorism, crimes that have interstate or
00:11:19international components will still be the responsibility the federal police
00:11:23service now, up until until a state has
00:11:27its own state police service operational, the federal police service will remain in
00:11:31that state performing both state and federal policing
00:11:35functions, so it will be a transition, not replacement. when the
00:11:39state begins to build its own capacity, the federal government will then
00:11:42begin, the federal police service will begin to move away, so there will never
00:11:46hopefully be a time where we have an sort of
00:11:49unpoliced uh spaces or on government spaces, well the
00:11:53bill proposes state. readiness certification before a
00:11:57state can establish its own police, who determines
00:12:01that readiness and couldn't uh that become a political
00:12:04tool to deny opposition control states their
00:12:08constitutional rights? so the the state
00:12:12readiness that you're talking about goes back to the issue of minimum
00:12:15standards, okay? if you enact minimum standards, you
00:12:19must also enact a framework to make sure that those standards are being
00:12:22met, so if we say for example: that these are the
00:12:26standards that every state police, these are the standards that the state police services must
00:12:30meet, you have to make sure that the states have the
00:12:33capacity to or have put in place the frameworks to meet those
00:12:37standards before you say, okay, go ahead and establish your police, if you put in place minimum
00:12:41standards and you don't put in place mechanism for certifying that
00:12:45those standards have been met, then it becomes an entirely
00:12:49academic exercise, and that's not what we're trying to do here, so the
00:12:52purpose of having the state. a certification is to make
00:12:56sure that there is a compliance system in place for
00:13:00states to meet the standards that you have already prescribed or that you're going to we're
00:13:04going to prescribe in the legislation that is coming. okay, you
00:13:08will agree with me that in Nigeria we don't really have lot of
00:13:12problems with laws, we have our laws, but it's also the those
00:13:15who apply those laws, we have problems with application
00:13:19of our laws. now all this reform is coming to place, it's still
00:13:23within, it's still the Nigerian. that Nigerian system, that Nigerian factor, the
00:13:27Nigerian thing, how going to avoid the Nigerian factor
00:13:31coming to play, good laws, good reform measures
00:13:34prescribed in our documents, but the the the those who
00:13:37implementing how going to guarantee that the end the day
00:13:41we're going to put in place the best polising structure that even 30
00:13:45years from now will be referenced and say look we've done a good job,
00:13:49so what are those things that will ensure that the Nigerian factor does
00:13:53not come to play in? really not again from our focus,
00:13:56so um, the first of
00:14:00all uh, the process by which we are drafting this
00:14:04legislation and trying to create this new dual
00:14:06policing universe is
00:14:10very thorough and deliberate one, taking into
00:14:13consideration all the challenges and all the issues that could
00:14:17arise during the course of implementation.
00:14:21earlier on in my my statement, i said to you that we have. to
00:14:25understand what are the tools that government has available to it to actually
00:14:29influence institutional or individual behavior. the government
00:14:33has the instrument of laws, it has the instrument of regulation,
00:14:36it has the instrument of incentives right, things like financial
00:14:40grants and support to states and the enforcement of
00:14:44those um laws and regulations, these are these are
00:14:48literally the only tools government has, so what we have to do is make sure that in writing
00:14:52this laws that we're writing that we have. as to
00:14:56roles, responsibilities, functions, but that we also put in place
00:15:00sufficiently robust
00:15:03enforcement mechanisms to make sure that put institutions and
00:15:07individuals who fail to do what they are supposed to do under the new
00:15:10framework can and will be held to account. all
00:15:14right, we still discuss more on this matter, but that will be right after the short
00:15:17break, don't go anywhere, we still have more for you on the program, stay with us, we'll
00:15:21right back.
00:15:33Every great stew comes down to one
00:15:36moment. the moment that
00:15:40decides everything, when the
00:15:43tomato paste needs the oil, fries
00:15:47well, blooms deep red color and gives
00:15:51off rich aroma, and when it blends well
00:15:54with everything else in the pot, i see it all coming
00:15:58together, new
00:16:02tasty tom fries well, blends well, shines
00:16:06in the moment, "my love, you
00:16:10sh so
00:16:10bright,
00:16:26thank you
00:16:26for staying with FCT brief now
00:16:28are still discusstion about the intended national
00:16:32policing bill, and still with us is a senior special
00:16:35assistant to the president.
00:16:37mr. yes,
00:16:41right? all right, well um, one concern
00:16:44that some nigerians have raised, because you know the committee is calling for
00:16:48inputes onto this bill, and um, that can be done
00:16:52on the website, which is the
00:16:53nationalpolicing.com, well, one
00:16:57issue that some Nigerians have raised is a short timeline that
00:17:01is being um put by the committee for this imputs, I think the
00:17:05deadline is by August. and they say and
00:17:09they say this timeline is quite short with little to no
00:17:12publicity, so um the timeline is two weeks for
00:17:16submission of memoranda, um, we
00:17:19have been running ads in the newspapers
00:17:22since Monday, we have started running video um
00:17:26advertisements on the TV stations, started that on
00:17:29Tuesday, we will run, we will continue running both the TV and
00:17:33newspaper print ads throughout the time the
00:17:39the the submission right, so that we can keep putting those out. We are also
00:17:42exploring other approaches to make sure that we reach as
00:17:46many people as possible. On the issue of timing, this
00:17:50cannot be an open-ended process. Um,
00:17:53there has
00:17:54to be some sort of certainty about when are we starting, when are we
00:17:57finishing? If there is
00:17:59need um to adjust
00:18:02timelines to make sure that this is a more inclusive, more
00:18:06participatory and ultimately more productive process,
00:18:09i we are not opposed to such
00:18:13adjustments if if need be, but ultimately
00:18:17the the goal here is to make sure that we produce legislation that
00:18:20works for Nigerians and that the process of producing that
00:18:24legislation is thorough, is deliberate and is inclusive,
00:18:28that is the objective. now talking about the inclusivity of
00:18:32this process, you're part of this walking presidential walking group, yes
00:18:36now uh uh all over the world, technology is key,
00:18:40yes in effective policing. now what is going to be the
00:18:43psychology of our new uh policing
00:18:47system? is it going to be manpower driven or tech
00:18:50driven? we going to have a system where from the one your
00:18:54committee will suggest to government whether
00:18:56it is federal or the state that every police officer
00:19:00must wear a body calm before while they are
00:19:04on the field operating. so those th are some the... the issues that will be
00:19:08addressed in the national policing buil, um,
00:19:12the the operational details as it were,
00:19:15but we're in 2026,
00:19:18policing in 2026 is essentially
00:19:22technology driven activity, um,
00:19:26and that will not be, we're not going to uh, in the
00:19:29process of doing reforms, take ourselves backwards instead of moving towards
00:19:33progress, so technology will play a
00:19:37very big because so understand what's happening here, you have you will have
00:19:41federal police service and you will have 36 state police services,
00:19:45all of those services need to be in constant communication
00:19:49with each other, data needs to be shared across those
00:19:52services, um, they need to be
00:19:56able to, you spoke about gaps, about making sure that we
00:20:00don't have gaps that allow criminals to
00:20:02operate, the key tool that
00:20:06government will have to use in managing sort of those gaps, the communication and
00:20:10information gaps is technology, so this will be a technology
00:20:13driven policing system uh, and we will
00:20:17try to make at this point our responsibility is to try to make sure that we
00:20:21write the legislation in such a way that it enables the
00:20:25effective deployment of technology, not an option, it must be a
00:20:28mandatory stock, well yeah, you if you want we will
00:20:32determine how much we want this to work in the legislation,
00:20:36well after the ends. protests and public trust
00:20:40in the police in architecture of Nigeria has remained
00:20:43very fragile, how does this be reviewed
00:20:47you know citizens confidence and trust? instead of just may
00:20:51creating another layer of policing, it
00:20:55it goes to the issues, i what i said before when i said
00:20:59what problems are we trying to solve, we
00:21:03spoke about the numbers problem that we are trying to solve, how many police officers do we have
00:21:06police in our country, police in communities and all of that,
00:21:10then there's a capacity problem, like i said, capacity problem is who are you recruiting
00:21:14to the police, what are the quality the policing is
00:21:18very unique responsibility. it requires certain personality
00:21:22types, certain skill sets, certain we have not in
00:21:25Nigeria so far recruited people with
00:21:29the with with specific attention to make sure that
00:21:33we are recruiting people who are suited to policing, that's part the capacity
00:21:37problem that we have currently, we're going to try to address
00:21:41those. another problem that we hope this dual police and
00:21:44architecture is going to solve is the problem of community intelligence
00:21:48and local interface. under a dual policing system,
00:21:52police officers will come from the communities that they are
00:21:55policing, right? they are not going to be
00:21:58strangers to those places, they are not going to come in to
00:22:02communities where they don't have relations, where they don't have any sort of
00:22:06ties and operate almost as if they are there
00:22:09on uh just to do a temporary assignments and leave,
00:22:13people will be policing their own communities, that changes
00:22:17lot of things right, um... "the reality
00:22:21is that when you are in your home, when you are in the place when you are
00:22:24known, there are things that you can't do, there are things that you will not even
00:22:28think to do, because you know that even if the legal system or the
00:22:32policing system does not hold you accountable, your community will
00:22:36hold you accountable, so by the time we address the numbers
00:22:39problem and you address the capacity problem, and you address the
00:22:43interf the intelligence, community intelligence and community interface
00:22:47problems through dw policing structure, I think we will..." have addressed a
00:22:50number the concerns of uh ns
00:22:54uh let's look - specifics about we talking about welfare and one
00:22:58the huge challenge the police do have at the moment is the issue
00:23:02of housing and all that and over time there was this there was this
00:23:05policy we are government was saying that okay look those some backs
00:23:09were actually demolished and uh uh developers were brought in and all that to
00:23:13construct a baracks but some of some other security experts have argued
00:23:17that if police is one thing that leaves up should be one
00:23:20thing
00:23:21that operates with the people amongst the people and we all want to have community policing, should we have
00:23:25a barack system that takes them away from the people that
00:23:28are supposed to live with? so what are you going to be proposing? is it okay? state police
00:23:32that is community based have baracks that you take the police out of where the people
00:23:36our what? so you have to understand why we have the barrack system in the first place?
00:23:40okay, the reason why we have the barack system in the first place is because we have federal
00:23:43unitry policing system that often deploys people
00:23:47from places where they live to places where they work. so it
00:23:51now creates a situation where the government itself has to now provide, if I'm going to post you,
00:23:55if you if if you're a police officer recruited in Abuja, for
00:23:58example, your family lives in Abuja, and I post you to anambra to go and
00:24:02walk. I now have responsibility to try and provide barracks or some sort of
00:24:05accommodation for you, but when you have recruted people from
00:24:09their own communities, from the places where they live, the issue of housing
00:24:13doesn't come up, the issue of creating special barracks for them doesn't even arise in the
00:24:17first place, the only issue now becomes issue of making that they are
00:24:20remunerated sufficiently that they can live
00:24:23comfortably within their own communities like the rest the people that they are going to be
00:24:27policing. so if we move towards the dual policing
00:24:31system that we are moving towards now, the barracking system of police
00:24:34housing will also become sort of less necessary as it were,
00:24:38and hopefully will be faced out eventually so that police officers can live in the
00:24:42communities where the police. i spoke about solving an intelligence
00:24:46problem and how dual policing will help us solve an intelligence problem.
00:24:50part of solving that intelligence problem is making sure that your police officers leave in the
00:24:54communities where they are policing, well you earlier mentioned that
00:24:58addressing these fears that Nigerians have raised and rebuting trust
00:25:02in the policing system has to do with understanding the issues
00:25:05which is deals with capacity and the number of
00:25:09men. now who determines capacity? because one major fear that
00:25:12nigerians keep expressing is you know we
00:25:15see um uh maybe the system
00:25:19recruit. repentant bandits into the
00:25:22system, so how does this build checkmate that
00:25:26and checkmate the capacity that you speak about? you have, you have
00:25:30just answered the question of why we need national minimum
00:25:34standards, right? that's the question you just answered
00:25:37now, the way to deal with capacity issue is to
00:25:41make sure that we have national minimum standards
00:25:44written into law so that it's not
00:25:48discretionary, it's no longer a...
00:25:58person that we need to recruit into the police force has to be written
00:26:01into. law or regulations, and that is part of what the national
00:26:05policing vio is all about. Okay,
00:26:08but but this aspect also, the synergy between the states and the federal -
00:26:11we're assuming that the capacity to abuse the police is
00:26:15just within the state, federal, we don't have, we have we have system in the past
00:26:19where we have federal abusing the police, so if the the the
00:26:23federal is setting the minimum standard, we are assuming
00:26:27that they are not fallable in also, because even we talk
00:26:31about recruiting bandit is... is from the national that that policy came into
00:26:35being the first place, the new national minimum standards are not national
00:26:39minimum standards for state police, there are new national minimum standards for
00:26:42policing, okay, so you can, the federal government is not going to
00:26:46hold states to a higher standard than it holds itself, so when we
00:26:50raise the national minimum standards, we're raising the national minimum standards across
00:26:54the board, both for the the new state police
00:26:58services that will um come up as well as the nigerian.
00:27:02police force that then becomes the federal police service, it's it's national
00:27:06minimum policing standards for both federal and state police services, so a
00:27:10not shell, will this legislation finally solve
00:27:14Nigeria's policing crisis, are we simply
00:27:17redesigning the structure without addressing the key concerns which is
00:27:21corruption, poor welfare, weak investigation and lack
00:27:25of accountability, all of those
00:27:29things, the welfare issues, the accountability.
00:27:32issues um are part the redesign
00:27:36of policing that's happening, all of those things will be
00:27:39considered. if you look at the thematic areas that I spoke about earlier that we
00:27:43still have on the website and I and I seriously encourage you to go on the
00:27:47website and take a look for yourself. um, the issues
00:27:51you've just raised now about accountability, how do you hold people
00:27:54accountable, what systems do you put in place, not just for individual
00:27:57accountability, but for institutional accountability, because sometimes the individual
00:28:01is not the problem. "sometimes it's the institution itself that has created
00:28:05systems that enable corruption, so all of those
00:28:08things are the things that we are going to try to resolve
00:28:12in the national policing bill. this is why the national policing bill is so important,
00:28:16and this is why the federal government has set out this
00:28:19process uh to begin drafting the
00:28:22bill now, even before even while the constitutional process is
00:28:26ongoing, because there is a tremendous amount of work that needs to be done to make sure that when the
00:28:30constitutional amendment process concludes..." that we are ready for the
00:28:33next stage and that is the work that uh we're doing now with the national
00:28:37police in b okay okay just just quickly is this group also the working group
00:28:41considering how to synergize between the the state police
00:28:45structure with uh so many other federal security
00:28:48institutions we have that we going to operated in the various states you have the the the
00:28:52the forest guards you have the civil defense that also in this
00:28:56state so when the state police comes in there are certain things that are doing those agences are doing
00:29:00that the state police will will do are you considering also harmonizing
00:29:04that aspect so that we don't have friction between the police, state police and those federal
00:29:08institutions, of course inevitably, um, you will have to find a
00:29:12way to um structure harmonization between these entities,
00:29:16unless you will have a situation where everybody is walking at cross proposes and that's not what we
00:29:19want, you will address those things in the
00:29:22in the legislation, how do the agencies talk each other, how do they
00:29:26cooperate, where does one person's jurisdiction begin and where does the
00:29:29other person's jurisdiction end, all of those issues. are issues for the
00:29:33national policing bill. All right, Mr.
00:29:37Mohalu, that's where we leave the conversation this morning. Thank you so much for your
00:29:41insights on the program, it's a delight speaking with you. Thank you very much an
00:29:44absolute