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00:00:03You are still in Indonesia, we will discuss vigilante justice
00:00:07when emotions override the law. I want to go directly to
00:00:14if they commit acts a shout of "pickpocket!", Ms. Hanifa Hasna, criminologist. Ms. Hanifa, if we talk about, earlier Ms. Hanifa already explained why
00:00:17vigilantism is so common, so does that mean
00:00:20aggressive behavior or vigilantism can actually
00:00:24be prevented, and how to do it?
00:00:27Okay, well, everything can certainly
00:00:31be done, but it definitely requires a very
00:00:35hard struggle, you know. So vigilantism
00:00:37is not, but what we need
00:00:40what should to understand is that vigilantism cannot only be
00:00:42prevented by asking people not to take
00:00:47be caught off guard, because that reaches the furthest the law into their own hands, because that certainly
00:00:49won't work, because this social behavior cannot
00:00:53be changed by appeals for change, you know. But
00:00:56this change usually happens when people have a reason to
00:01:00trust the system itself. So this
00:01:03becomes a very heavy task, not only
00:01:07the task of the government, but the task of society, because
00:01:11no matter what, Ms. Happy, peace and order are
00:01:15not something we completely hand over to the police.
00:01:18Society must also understand that they have
00:01:21a responsibility to make society more peaceful again,
00:01:25which is by exercising social control. But for prevention,
00:01:28the first thing is... building trust, not just
00:01:31enforcement. Public trust in
00:01:35enforcement means it must be done quickly,
00:01:38justly, transparently. When this
00:01:42is done by the government, by law enforcement, then
00:01:45slowly but surely,
00:01:48the public will feel optimistic about the changes that exist. The
00:01:52second is to change social norms. This
00:01:56is actually a part that is very rarely discussed in
00:01:59various topics of discussion or debates. However,
00:02:03because what needs to be changed is not only the actions, but normalizing
00:02:07violence. This means there must be government
00:02:10parties who can reach the grassroots, provide education,
00:02:13provide literacy to the public. Who needs to
00:02:16be involved? Those who need to be involved are what Mr.
00:02:20Arif said earlier, community police officers,
00:02:23what about the police, what about the volunteers
00:02:27who should be involved, and religious study groups? How do
00:02:31they educate the community at the grassroots level,
00:02:34so that social norms are returned to what they were
00:02:38before, which makes society more
00:02:41peaceful. And the third is to train
00:02:44the community to be crowd controllers, what should
00:02:47be done, you know. These are actions or,
00:02:50sorry, these are very practical
00:02:53programs, because in every crowd there are actually always
00:02:57people who don't want violence to happen. The problem
00:03:00is that they choose to be silent, they choose
00:03:04is that what to be bystanders. So what needs to be strengthened is
00:03:06the courage of people to say,
00:03:10let's just hand it over to the police. Now, if
00:03:13everyone, even good people now are infected
00:03:16with bad morals,
00:03:20this becomes very dangerous, you know. The fourth is that
00:03:23the police must be present before the crowd takes the law
00:03:27into their own hands. Now, this is what
00:03:30was conveyed by Kompolnas, that we already have community police officers,
00:03:34we have already made approaches, you know, there are even military
00:03:38substations. This means that when there are certain approaches,
00:03:41they must understand. Even in the case in
00:03:45Bali, in areas where theft often occurs,
00:03:49this means it has already been identified by law
00:03:52enforcement that that place is very prone
00:03:55to crime. Now, these kinds of conditions would be wonderful
00:03:58if they could be... there could be
00:04:02special treatment from other places
00:04:05that might be calmer and more peaceful, where there
00:04:08is no crime. So the last, the very last thing is legal
00:04:11education,
00:04:15Ms. Happy, okay, okay, Ms. Hanifa, the
00:04:18last thing is legal education and education about
00:04:21emotions and empathy, because no matter what,
00:04:24our society, when they carry out mob
00:04:28rule, they are actually losing empathy for
00:04:31the citizens themselves. So they already know that beating
00:04:35people is a violation, but they don't necessarily
00:04:39realize that every person, including perpetrators of crime,
00:04:42still has the right to be processed fairly, as Mr. Kurnia
00:04:46said earlier. So even within a group, they will still
00:04:49be processed, who did what, and there
00:04:52are these articles that must be conveyed to the public
00:04:56so that vigilantism can be prevented.
00:04:59That's it, sir. Well, it means there is a way
00:05:03to prevent this vigilantism,
00:05:06not just appeals to the public, but the most important thing is that there must be concrete evidence
00:05:10from the police that there will be
00:05:12swift and fair legal action as hoped
00:05:16by the public, Mr. Arif, transparent, Ms., and transparent,
00:05:20and transparent, Mr. Arif. Can the police
00:05:23then, the next question is, take preventive measures that
00:05:27are not just appeals, but truly
00:05:29prove that
00:05:33law enforcement agencies are able
00:05:36to restore public trust that all
00:05:40forms of crime will be processed according to legal corridors, according
00:05:43to procedures that will definitely provide a sense
00:05:47of justice for
00:05:50the public? Yes, that's right, so
00:05:54the police have a program
00:05:58front, which is called
00:06:02"Curhat Friday." So every
00:06:05Friday, residents
00:06:09are asked to gather, perhaps during Friday prayers. They
00:06:12can share their concerns with the police, in
00:06:16this case, with community police officers or
00:06:19community development personnel at the sub-district or district police stations.
00:06:23Then on Sundays too, there is what is called
00:06:26"Minggu Kasih" (Sunday of Love). So for Christian
00:06:29communities who carry out worship activities at
00:06:32churches, they are also given the opportunity to
00:06:36provide input to
00:06:38the police. In addition to routine
00:06:42visits from Monday to Thursday or even
00:06:46Friday, there are programs
00:06:49of visits to schools and communities.
00:06:52Whether it's officials from the sub-district police
00:06:56or district police, they conduct ceremonies as
00:07:00inspection officers at schools in their area. So this way,
00:07:03they can receive input from the public. Now, the
00:07:06second is that the police
00:07:09themselves are taught or equipped
00:07:13with knowledge about the characteristics of vulnerable
00:07:16areas. Let me repeat, characteristics of vulnerable areas.
00:07:20So now, the term is areas with
00:07:23potential for disturbances. So they have a mapping
00:07:26of vulnerable areas, less vulnerable areas,
00:07:30and areas that have been brought
00:07:33under control. So when there is an incident
00:07:37in the community, they can immediately refer
00:07:40it to the local police, especially
00:07:43now that reporting channels or complaint channels
00:07:46such as 110 have been opened.
00:07:49Then, if there are police officers who violate rules,
00:07:52there is a QR code for complaints to
00:07:56the Professional and Security Division, and there is also a public complaint
00:08:00system. All these channels have been opened,
00:08:03including what is called a super application. With this
00:08:07super application, people don't even have to go to the police station
00:08:10to ask questions, take care
00:08:13of lost items, or
00:08:16renew their driver's license or vehicle registration. All of that is available. Now,
00:08:20if these things are still not
00:08:23effective, then there will be fair law
00:08:26enforcement. This fair law enforcement will
00:08:30be implemented, but now it's called law
00:08:34enforcement according to the new
00:08:37Criminal Code, according to Article 1 of 2023.
00:08:40Even
00:08:42law enforcement for offenses with a sentence of 5 years
00:08:46or more will only be subject to criminal penalties. If the
00:08:50threat is less than 5 years,
00:08:53a rehabilitative, substantive,
00:08:56and restorative approach will be prioritized,
00:08:59or we could say that they are given
00:09:03the opportunity to resolve
00:09:06issues peacefully. So there is no
00:09:10vigilante justice, because vigilante justice
00:09:12in Indonesia, which is a country of law,
00:09:16can be considered uncivilized, something
00:09:19that is not civilized. So they
00:09:23are expected, through those programs, to understand
00:09:26that. Thank you, Ms. Happy. Well, thank you, Mr. Arif. I want
00:09:30to turn to Mr. Kurnia. Mr. Kurnia, recently the public
00:09:33has also highlighted regional leaders who often hold
00:09:37competitions to catch criminals,
00:09:40for example, these regional leaders hold competitions to catch
00:09:44muggers, catch thieves, even with the
00:09:47phrase "catch them alive," you know. Even though regional leaders should
00:09:51support legal processes. Now, this has caused controversy. Some say
00:09:55this can encourage the prevention of vigilantism,
00:09:58but it could also, perhaps, lead to going
00:10:02outside legal boundaries. How does the central
00:10:05government, especially from the legal aid perspective,
00:10:08view this phenomenon? Yes,
00:10:13I think the procedure
00:10:16when there is an alleged criminal act
00:10:19is to report it to law enforcement
00:10:22officials, and that rule
00:10:25applies to all levels
00:10:28of society, including leaders
00:10:32in the regions. That's the first thing. Then
00:10:35the second is that I agree
00:10:38that to overcome
00:10:41this problem, it cannot be
00:10:44just an appeal. It requires collective
00:10:47effort. Therefore, what
00:10:50was conveyed regarding the
00:10:53efforts of the government, in this case, law
00:10:57enforcement, the police, for example,
00:10:59to provide public services to the
00:11:03community, there is the hotline
00:11:05110 that can be accessed by all
00:11:08communities when they see any alleged
00:11:11criminal act, whatever the criminal
00:11:15act is, and the police state
00:11:18that this hotline can be contacted
00:11:21by the public 24 hours a day.
00:11:25These things are provided by the government
00:11:27to the public so that a culture
00:11:31of legal awareness and legal order
00:11:34is created, because as I said
00:11:37earlier, there is no benefit
00:11:40in carrying out mob justice, because
00:11:44in the end, the act of mob justice
00:11:47is classified as a criminal act.
00:11:51Therefore, the perpetrators of the mob justice
00:11:55against Mr. KD's family, when I checked,
00:11:58there were already five people named as suspects
00:12:02and they have been detained at this time.
00:12:05So this legal order, I also
00:12:08checked with several ministries,
00:12:11for example, regarding the socialization of laws
00:12:14and regulations, which is also being massively
00:12:18carried out, for example, by the Ministry of Law
00:12:22and Human Rights, and also by law enforcement.
00:12:25Meanwhile, the government is open
00:12:27to evaluating when there
00:12:30are law enforcement officials who do not comply
00:12:34or do not respond quickly to such
00:12:38reports, as has often
00:12:42been voiced by the public. Thank you, Ms. Happy.
00:12:46Well, thank you, Mr. Kurnia. I also want to ask Ms. Hanifa for her
00:12:50opinion, and Mr. Arif, regarding this. So, Ms. Hanifa, does the
00:12:53reward for catching muggers or thieves actually incite anarchy
00:12:57and jungle law, or can it prevent vigilante
00:13:00justice?
00:13:05Uh, Ms. Hanifa, your audio is still not
00:13:08audible, I'm sorry. Okay,
00:13:11well, it could be both, Ms. Happy, because basically,
00:13:14when regional leaders say such
00:13:17things, they might be trying to show support
00:13:21for law enforcement and that they will fight
00:13:25crime. But what we need to understand
00:13:29is conveyed by leaders is not necessarily
00:13:33well-received by our angry society.
00:13:36It could be that the message conveyed is
00:13:40that catching someone will result
00:13:43in appreciation. The hope is, the hope
00:13:46from the public's understanding is, "Let's help
00:13:50law enforcement." That is the leader's hope.
00:13:54But it turns out that what the public receives
00:13:57is, "The important thing is to catch them, we'll figure
00:14:01out how later, or the important thing is to catch
00:14:05them and we'll get money." Now, these
00:14:08kinds of situations make us think that this
00:14:11will also conflict with what Mr. Kurnia
00:14:15said, that everything already has clear and strict
00:14:19rules that when there is a criminal, they must
00:14:22be handed over. Now, these kinds of situations cannot
00:14:26be educated to the public first. What should be
00:14:30done when catching someone? How well?
00:14:33Where should they be taken? You know, because when
00:14:36the order is unclear, there is a possibility
00:14:40of misidentification, wrong person. Now, these
00:14:43kinds of situations allow for further crimes to occur.
00:14:47That's it, Ms. Happy. Mr. Arif, from
00:14:50your point of view, do these reward programs
00:14:54from regional leaders discredit the capabilities of the police
00:14:57in catching perpetrators of criminal acts, or
00:15:01can they actually help law enforcement? Uh, it's like
00:15:05this, the reward for catching muggers
00:15:09is well-intentioned to reduce
00:15:12mugging among
00:15:15the community. That's the first thing, but
00:15:18what Ms. Hasna said is true, because the public's
00:15:22understanding is different.
00:15:25There is concern that vigilante justice will emerge,
00:15:29while, Ms. Happy, among the police,
00:15:32they have a standard operating procedure,
00:15:35for example, the National Police Chief's Regulation No. 1 of
00:15:382009 regarding the levels
00:15:42of police operational actions in the field. For example, if
00:15:44there is
00:15:48this is what is done. For example,
00:15:52of violence, that is what is done up to harsh actions.
00:15:55There are also levels for that, including
00:15:58when they make arrests and conduct investigations.
00:16:02There is already police regulation No. 6 of 2019.
00:16:05So that's it. Now, if this is interpreted carelessly
00:16:08by people with different backgrounds and social
00:16:12strata, there is concern that
00:16:15vigilante justice will emerge. So
00:16:17have been said by the regional leader
00:16:20should have been given comprehensive
00:16:23explanation to the public, "This is what
00:16:26it means," so that they don't carelessly
00:16:29interpret it. That's it, ma'am.
00:16:32Okay, thank you, Mr. Arif, for your explanation. This means
00:16:36that if regional leaders can create
00:16:39rewards for catching muggers, why not also create a reward
00:16:42for catching corruptors, right? Well, we're going to take a break, viewers,
00:16:45don't go anywhere, stay with
00:16:47us on Indonesia Bicara.
00:16:55Kalimantan Selatan,
00:16:59a land rich in beauty and biodiversity,
00:17:03including endemic primates that are almost
00:17:06endemik yang hampir.
00:17:07extinct.
00:17:13In the lush mangrove forest,
00:17:16proboscis monkeys live,
00:17:18now increasingly threatened.
00:17:24Primates with long noses and
00:17:27reddish-brown fur are
00:17:31part of our natural heritage.
00:17:34Proboscis monkeys are endemic primates of Kalimantan
00:17:38whose conservation status is currently endangered. Their presence in the
00:17:41wild serves as a key species indicator that maintains
00:17:45ecosystem balance due to their role as biodiversity agents and forest
00:17:48regenerators. Conserving proboscis monkeys through habitat restoration,
00:17:52stopping hunting, let's build a chain of care together
00:17:56by glorifying nature, saving proboscis monkeys, saving human
00:17:59civilization,
00:18:02through mangrove forest restoration also helps
00:18:05increase the population
00:18:08of nearly extinct proboscis monkeys. We all have a role in protecting
00:18:12them.
00:18:14Don't let proboscis monkeys only become a memory.
00:19:55Thank you, and still with us on Indonesia Bicara. Vigilante justice
00:19:59when emotions override the law. I want to go directly to Mr. Arif, the daily
00:20:02chairman of Kompolnas Republic of Indonesia. Mr. Arif,
00:20:06vigilantism or vigilante justice certainly causes
00:20:09an impact, you know. Often, the families of vigilantism victims
00:20:13receive prolonged negative stigma in society,
00:20:16while the perpetrators of vigilantism are
00:20:19actually considered heroes. So is
00:20:23there a role for the police to also pay attention
00:20:27to the impact caused by these acts of vigilante justice?
00:20:30Yes, so what is clear is that
00:20:34the police have what Ms. Hasna mentioned, which
00:20:37is "pol one." One of the tasks of
00:20:41"pol one," in addition to being a negotiator
00:20:44when there is a protest,
00:20:47they also prioritize the healing process.
00:20:50This healing is for the victim's family,
00:20:54both children and wives, who tragically
00:20:58lost their husband or
00:21:01head of the family when he was lynched
00:21:05by the community. These programs are also
00:21:09always rolled out, both by the "pol one"
00:21:12itself and by those from the police psychology
00:21:16team. That's the first thing. The second is that we also
00:21:20hope that with some of these police
00:21:23programs, such as "Curhat Friday" and "Minggu Kasih,"
00:21:26then prevention and education programs and so
00:21:30on, must be consistently implemented.
00:21:33Don't
00:21:37all the tools possessed by the police,
00:21:40from the frontline to the top, are already
00:21:43in place. So that's it, Ms. Happy, no need to
00:21:47worry. It's just about the police's consistency in performing
00:21:50their duties as protectors, servers,
00:21:53and guardians. Thank you. Well, thank you, Mr.
00:21:57Arif. Ms. Hanifa, on social media
00:22:00now, everything spreads so quickly, you know. Even
00:22:04videos of mobbing also spread quickly, you know.
00:22:08This means there will be various narratives that are then
00:22:11consumed by the public. So, does
00:22:14the normalization of violence on social media contribute
00:22:18to the tendency of vigilante justice
00:22:21in society?
00:22:24Yes, actually social media does not
00:22:27create crime, but it accelerates
00:22:30the response, because no matter what, we have
00:22:34seen that vigilantism does not only happen
00:22:38offline, but online too.
00:22:41We see that society is very quick
00:22:44and responsive to certain conditions or cases.
00:22:48Their comments already incite crime or
00:22:51violence, that they normalize
00:22:54acts of violence or vigilante justice, even on social
00:22:58media. Now, we cannot filter this, everyone can
00:23:01watch, even children can watch. When
00:23:05everyone feels that this is okay and done by everyone, then
00:23:09this will form a new norm. When this forms a new norm,
00:23:12it means there will be similar actions, because they
00:23:16feel that everyone is doing this. So...
00:23:39years ago, but the medium is different. Now they don't kill people physically, but on social media they kill someone's
00:23:41mental state. They create opinions that make
00:23:44someone they consider evil completely destroyed,
00:23:48you know, completely mentally destroyed. And they have no
00:23:52self-respect left. That is also done as
00:23:55vigilantism on social media online. That's it,
00:23:58ma'am. Well, Mr. Kurnia, so what strategy
00:24:02does the government have to prevent provocation that leads to mass
00:24:05violence or vigilantism, which can originate
00:24:08from social media?
00:24:11Yes, the first thing is that
00:24:14case surfaced
00:24:18publicly, there has also been a response
00:24:21to check all aspects
00:24:24related to handling criminal acts.
00:24:27Mr. Yusril, as the Coordinating Minister for Legal, Political,
00:24:31and Security Affairs, will also plan
00:24:34to hold a joint coordination meeting
00:24:37with the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs,
00:24:40and also invite how aspects
00:24:44of witness and victim protection, the National Commission on Human
00:24:47Rights, the National Commission on Women, and the Indonesian
00:24:51Child Protection Commission will be implemented.
00:24:54This is certainly important as
00:24:57a basis for government evaluation and
00:25:00to check where there are bottlenecks
00:25:04that need to be resolved immediately. That's the
00:25:07first thing. Then the second is
00:25:11that there are things that need to be evaluated
00:25:14regarding the rapid response of law enforcement.
00:25:18We know that a few months ago,
00:25:21the phenomenon of "no viral, no justice"
00:25:25emerged on social media. Of course, starting
00:25:29from there, the police tried to draw up
00:25:33a roadmap for improvement, especially for improving
00:25:36public services, reporting, handling, and
00:25:39transparent, objective, and professional legal processes.
00:25:43I think in the past few months, the police
00:25:47have started to show this to the public.
00:25:51Of course, in this forum, I also
00:25:54invite everyone to collaborate.
00:25:57All parties, all elements of society
00:26:01must educate each other,
00:26:04must give understanding
00:26:06that there are many consequences
00:26:10when committing mobbing or vigilante
00:26:13justice. There are legal consequences for the perpetrators,
00:26:17there are psychological consequences for the
00:26:20victims, and of course, it will not
00:26:23bring any benefits when we engage
00:26:27in vigilante justice that is mandated
00:26:30by the Constitution. and laws
00:26:34that can impose sentences, process
00:26:37laws, it's only two, only law enforcement officials and
00:26:40judicial institutions, not individual citizens,
00:26:44public participation in the law enforcement process
00:26:48is given the authority by
00:26:51law to report to law enforcement
00:26:54officials, arrest perpetrators and drag them to legal
00:26:57process, not in fact
00:27:00legitimizing or giving...
00:27:02justification for any reason to take the law into one's
00:27:06own hands, thank you sir, thank you, Mr. Kurnia, I want
00:27:09to ask
00:27:12you to convey a brief message regarding for the community as well as
00:27:16law enforcement officials related to the acts of vigilantism that we
00:27:19have witnessed recently, Ms. Hanifah what is your brief message to
00:27:23the community so that they do not
00:27:26normalize mass violence this collective violence or
00:27:29vigilantism
00:27:32Okay, Mapi, we know that in a legal state,
00:27:35efforts to uphold justice is indeed
00:27:39very, very important, but this participation must
00:27:43strengthen the legal system, not replace it,
00:27:46so if a policy unintentionally makes people
00:27:50choose to have the authority to punish
00:27:53or arrest with violence, then we are
00:27:57creating new crimes and risks,
00:28:00which is to replace
00:28:02violence with new violence so that violence will continue
00:28:06to happen. Okay, thank you, Ma. Thank
00:28:09you. Mr. Arif, what is the message from Kompolnas to the community and also
00:28:13to the law enforcement agency Polri regarding
00:28:17enforcement, enforcement
00:28:20so that it does not lead to collective
00:28:23violence?
00:28:25Eh, thank you, so we urge the community
00:28:29not to take the law into their own hands.
00:28:32If there is a problem in the community, immediately
00:28:36report it to the police, the police have many
00:28:40reporting channels, whether it is Irwasum, whether
00:28:43Propam, or also to
00:28:46Kompolnas. Well, then the police themselves
00:28:50also have mechanisms as we mentioned
00:28:53earlier, if you can't report what we mentioned earlier,
00:28:57you can do it on Friday prayer
00:29:00Friday, Friday confession
00:29:03to the Babin Kamtibmas in
00:29:06the outermost
00:29:09areas of the region in cooperation with the neighborhood associations. Don't be
00:29:13hesitant, and once again, trust that the police
00:29:17will always act with
00:29:20wisdom and there will be law enforcement, and then
00:29:23it also needs to be known, Mbak Epi, that for
00:29:26police officers who have high dedication,
00:29:30they will every... period will be given
00:29:34rewards, which are rewards in the form of hug rewards
00:29:37or rewards from Kompolnas itself so that this
00:29:41can generate motivation and dedication for them to compete
00:29:44to be able to be quick or
00:29:48have a faster response time in serving the needs
00:29:51of the community itself, thank you, Mr. Arif, and finally, Mr. Kurnia, what is the message
00:29:55of the government to the community and
00:29:58also the police institution, especially to the community, so that they always
00:30:02uphold the presumption of innocence and do not take over the role of law enforcement
00:30:06in law enforcement?
00:30:09Yes, every person who is legally
00:30:13processed is not based on a
00:30:17belief, the basis for someone to be
00:30:20legally processed is measurable, which
00:30:23is commonly known in legal science as sufficient initial
00:30:27evidence or the fulfillment of two pieces of evidence,
00:30:30so to verify such
00:30:33evidence is not within the purview of the community,
00:30:37but rather within the purview of law enforcement officials, therefore
00:30:41taking legal action oneself or
00:30:43collectively with other members of the community
00:30:47is certainly not the right thing to do.