Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00also encourages
00:00:02previously, many the government to then not only utilize the instruments
00:00:05available domestically but also attract the involvement of
00:00:08parties who are also interested in this, like that. Okay, I'll go
00:00:12to Mas Hidayat. Mas Hidayat, how can the government
00:00:16the law enforcement ensure that the handling of forest and land fires
00:00:192015, many of them were does not only focus on extinguishing the fires, as Mas Ogi said, but also
00:00:22prevents recurrent fires every year?
00:00:30the previous topic regarding how
00:00:32in fact, from 2020 to
00:00:342024, the strengthening of
00:00:38regional commitment and development within
00:00:41the ASEAN region has included the ASEAN Haze
00:00:44Monitoring System version 2.0, which Mas
00:00:47Ogi also mentioned, and I mentioned at the beginning
00:00:50that the ASEAN Agreement diplomacy covers three
00:00:54things: prevention, monitoring, mitigation, and emergency
00:00:58response. Then, second, how
00:01:01our process has been in the field. Currently,
00:01:05we are definitely strengthening it continuously until
00:01:08now. And tomorrow, we
00:01:12are also planning to go to the various points
00:01:16that are of concern to the President,
00:01:18particularly in the locations mentioned earlier,
00:01:22the Tanjung Puting National
00:01:26Park and also various locations that
00:01:30really need special attention. Also, various
00:01:33elements or government officials in the field
00:01:37are also moving, and as I mentioned earlier, there are
00:01:3969,190
00:01:41ground task forces, and they consist of TNI,
00:01:44Polri, BPBD, Manggala Agni, and also
00:01:48community groups caring for fires, and also various
00:01:52other elements. Secondly, we continue to fight
00:01:55for planes and also
00:01:58helicopters. We use large aircraft for OMC, patrols, and
00:02:02helicopter water bombing. Until now, they are still
00:02:05being deployed in various locations
00:02:08where water bombing is necessary.
00:02:11When helicopters cannot approach,
00:02:15we use ground
00:02:18the law against people who are task forces, which number in the tens of
00:02:20thousands. The Ministry of Health also encourages and
00:02:24provides support in terms of medical
00:02:27equipment and various other forms of support. So, I think
00:02:30the importance of various elements in the field, including
00:02:34local governments, Forkopimda, working together, is still
00:02:38our homework. Since June until
00:02:41now, we are still fighting in the field, and
00:02:45of course, in various collaborations, not only in the field
00:02:48but also in discussions with
00:02:52experts, and discussions with various cross-ministerial
00:02:55and institutional elements. This is important to strengthen
00:02:58so that we can resolve
00:03:02forest and land fires in 2026 as quickly
00:03:04as possible. Okay, I'll go to Pak Wahyu. Pak Wahyu, in
00:03:08some cases, public attention on
00:03:11forest and land fires is focused on hotspots, but land management
00:03:15issues and human activity also need to be investigated. How should
00:03:19the government strengthen oversight
00:03:21to communication between so that prevention doesn't stop at patrols and extinguishing, Pak
00:03:26not only its name should be Wahyu?
00:03:28This is a note that if there is an institution
00:03:32that is quite focused, it is important
00:03:35to look at its function before it is disbanded. Why
00:03:38is that? Firstly, in the context of peatland ecosystems,
00:03:42the function and rewetting are inseparable.
00:03:45So, if the approach is not
00:03:49decrees as exempted by experts, they might not know
00:03:52that if there is a canal, it means that efforts are underway
00:03:55to dry it out. If it can only be dried first, then it can
00:04:00cannot be burned. Secondly, this can also be seen in the context of granting concessions. If we
00:04:04look, for example, throughout last September alone,
00:04:0730% of the fire sources were
00:04:11from
00:04:14institution, such as the Peatland the plantation sector. This means that the Ministry of Forestry cannot stand alone, but
00:04:17the responsibility in the context of permits also lies with the Ministry
00:04:21of Agriculture and the Ministry of ATRBN, because
00:04:24permits outside forest areas, administrative jurisdiction
00:04:27that falls under the Ministry of Forestry is...
00:04:30outside of that ministry, it falls under the Ministry of ATR for land matters,
00:04:34and plantation permits fall under
00:04:37the Ministry of Agriculture. Now, in the context of law
00:04:41enforcement specifically regarding forest and land fires, it
00:04:44could actually be done long before
00:04:47the forest and land fires occurred. Many things can be checked, for example,
00:04:50the ministerial regulation in the context of plantations regulates the type and
00:04:54height of fire towers, for example,
00:04:57that the forest fire team
00:05:09back at previous law enforcement
00:05:12is absolutely essential. So, there's no need to wait for guilt to be proven,
00:05:16if the forest fires are within their concession, they will be
00:05:19held accountable. It just depends on whether they want to be asked
00:05:22nicely and admit their guilt, or if
00:05:25the government sues them, as in previous cases. If
00:05:29we look at lawsuits from
00:05:31won by the government. They have many deposits, but then only
00:05:35one or two companies pay.
00:05:39The irony is that those with a history of forest fires are still burning
00:05:42"repeatedly, even though it is something that
00:05:46is relatively easy to predict. What's even
00:05:48sadder is that after the repeated damage to the peatland
00:05:52ecosystem, when the
00:05:54rainy season comes, the threat of
00:05:57floods increases. Peatland ecosystems can absorb 1300%
00:06:01of water. We create modeling for forest fires
00:06:04or modeling in the context of floods. That's what happened
00:06:08during the last El Niño, after the big fires
00:06:11in 2019. Several areas
00:06:14in Kalimantan, even South Kalimantan, almost all
00:06:17of its districts and cities intersected with KHG, experienced
00:06:20floods. So,
00:06:24we cannot then rely solely on
00:06:27ground response and extinguishing.
00:06:30What's rather terrifying, I want to show the fact that if
00:06:34the fire occurs in peat, it is almost impossible
00:06:38to extinguish. As soon as the
00:06:42fire is small, it is often underground. Water bombing once or
00:06:45twice will also cause even more
00:06:49smoke. 3 days of rain ago in South
00:06:52Sumatra, after that, it got even darker.
00:06:56So, in the end, we can no
00:07:00longer just deal with
00:07:04forest fires when they occur. The effort must be afterwards, the responsibility
00:07:08must also be after this. The context of law enforcement
00:07:11becomes a note. Because often, after the
00:07:15forest fires of 2015, 2019,
00:07:182023, phases where the dry season is longer or
00:07:22El Niño, the law enforcement
00:07:25efforts just pass by without any forced efforts to
00:07:29collect, without any forced efforts to not grant new
00:07:32permits, without any evaluation.
00:07:35Even if there have been large forest fires in peatlands,
00:07:39strategic projects should also not be carried out on peatland
00:07:42systems, and the failure rate is very high if
00:07:46it is not accompanied by drying efforts. The consequence is
00:07:49forest fires. If such conditions are left, the
00:07:53acidity level makes many projects related to agriculture, whether
00:07:57sugarcane, rice, or palm oil,
00:08:00have a high failure rate. We once conducted a study and took
00:08:04soil samples from one block of 200,000 hectares; the suitability
00:08:07of agricultural land was only 1%.
00:08:10So, especially in the context of peatland ecosystems, where that study
00:08:13was conducted, because this
00:08:17ecosystem also stores a lot of carbon,
00:08:21as soon as it is exposed,
00:08:24the fires drag on, and if that is accompanied
00:08:27by an increase in ISPA, pyritic peatland,
00:08:31even without being burned, as soon as it
00:08:34is exposed to oxygen and oxidizes, it becomes quite
00:08:37toxic. That's why if we walk in
00:08:41peatland ecosystems,
00:08:44the temperature we feel becomes hotter
00:08:47compared to forests on mineral soil.
00:08:51So, I think this
00:08:53is a momentum to not only focus on
00:08:57inter-state coordination but also on law
00:09:01enforcement, evaluation of existing concessions, and evaluation of existing
00:09:04policies.
00:09:07It happens repeatedly in subsequent years.
00:09:10Alright, we'll ask Mas Hidayat later about how law enforcement
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00:13:25Thank you for staying with us on Indonesia Bicara. And viewers, you have
00:13:29just witnessed Indonesia's diplomacy in handling forest and land fires
00:13:32that have occurred, and of course, the decrease in hotspots is a
00:13:35development that deserves attention, but it does not automatically mean
00:13:39that the forest and land fire problem is solved. The next challenge is to ensure that
00:13:42the perpetrators of the burning are prosecuted, the damaged areas are restored, and
00:13:46diplomacy brings about real change. What is the direction of the government's
00:13:49policy? I will go back to Mas Hidayat
00:13:52of course, Mas Hidayat. What
00:13:55are the concrete results of the government's diplomacy that can
00:13:58be measured at this time, and what are the next targets to
00:14:02reduce the impact of this cross-border haze, and how
00:14:06about law enforcement against perpetrators of forest and
00:14:10land burning that often occurs, which Mas
00:14:13Wahyu
00:14:15mentioned earlier?
00:14:17Alright, thank you, Mas Wahmi. As I mentioned earlier,
00:14:21and also as Mas Wahyu mentioned,
00:14:26handling forest and land fires is not only about emergency
00:14:29response, but we also need to consider
00:14:32law enforcement. Law enforcement
00:14:36is a very central aspect when
00:14:39we want to explain that the
00:14:42triggers of forest and land fires are not
00:14:45only natural, but there are also negligence, both human
00:14:49negligence and individual human negligence,
00:14:52and also, of course, whether
00:14:56intentional or unintentional. These are some reports that have been submitted
00:15:00to the law enforcement aspect to the National Police,
00:15:03there are 247 reports and
00:15:06also, burned concessions were also
00:15:09mentioned by Pak Wahyu, there are
00:15:1333,514
00:15:15law enforcements until now, in accordance with
00:15:19President Prabowo's directive,
00:15:22law must be enforced, and also
00:15:25sanctions must be given, whether administrative sanctions or
00:15:29criminal sanctions. These are also some points until now, there are
00:15:321990 individual suspects and also
00:15:3597 police reports
00:15:37for corporations. So, we hope that we can all monitor
00:15:41this together. Pak Wahyu had some notes
00:15:45regarding how the law enforcement process
00:15:48works, and many people are certainly asking about
00:15:53carried out in handling
00:15:56these roots. This is what we need to
00:15:59emphasize, law enforcement is also a concern, and we
00:16:03hope that law enforcement and also,
00:16:07Pak Wahyu also said that the government must
00:16:10also supervise how this law enforcement process
00:16:14is transparent and also
00:16:17sustainable. This is our note, and we are also doing
00:16:20evaluations. And
00:16:22this is our momentum. I also believe that every
00:16:26forest fire disaster
00:16:29can be evaluated and we can also make good changes.
00:16:33That's it, Mas. Okay, I'll go to Mas Ogi. Mas Ogi,
00:16:36how can law enforcement against perpetrators
00:16:39of forest and land burning strengthen Indonesia's
00:16:43credibility in the international community? Is transparency
00:16:47in the legal process and investigation results also important for environmental
00:16:51diplomacy, Mas? First, I want to say
00:16:54that we focus on forest and land fires first. In my opinion,
00:16:58the handling of forest and land fires is something mandatory,
00:17:01and why is it mandatory? Because it is part of fulfilling international
00:17:05obligations.
00:17:07As I said earlier, Indonesia is a member of the
00:17:11ASEAN Agreement in
00:17:142002. Inside it are listed the obligations
00:17:18of our country. If we refer to
00:17:21Article 4, paragraph 3 of the ASEAN Agreement,
00:17:24it states that member countries must take
00:17:28legal and administrative actions. The bottom
00:17:31line is that, in other words,
00:17:34if we want to fulfill international obligations, especially
00:17:38in the case of forest and land fires that then cause
00:17:42cross-border smoke pollution, then
00:17:45the approach is not only an administrative approach but also
00:17:48legal approaches. One of them is to
00:17:52enforce
00:17:55suspected of being involved in burning, including
00:17:58corporations, if the elements are
00:18:01met. In other words, if we
00:18:04talk about handling forest and land fires, it is not just about
00:18:08putting out the fire, it is not just about
00:18:11preventing the smoke from crossing
00:18:15borders, but also comprehensively looking at
00:18:18this problem more broadly,
00:18:22which is to extinguish the fire,
00:18:25then we create a prevention system for the future,
00:18:29because as mentioned earlier, forest fires are not something new
00:18:33in our country. They have happened repeatedly in 2015-2019, and today,
00:18:36I think this is very important. So, these
00:18:40steps are very important and form a unity that must
00:18:43be implemented because that is also a
00:18:47message contained in the ASEAN Agreement,
00:18:50that legal and administrative actions must go hand in hand.
00:18:54So, handling to overcome the fire,
00:18:58meaning overcoming the hotspots and
00:19:01extinguishing them, also preventing
00:19:04forest fires from occurring in the future, then we also have to ensure
00:19:08that the recovery of the environment
00:19:12and ecosystem happens in the future, because these fires have caused environmental
00:19:16and ecosystem damage and destruction. So, in the future, we also need to think about
00:19:19how to restore the environment and ecosystem,
00:19:23and also to think about how to protect
00:19:26affected communities. So, it's not only focused on the environment,
00:19:30but also the people must be considered. Then also,
00:19:34the alleged perpetrators must also be considered. So, if I
00:19:37conclude, there will be three levels of stages that
00:19:41must be carried out by the Indonesian government. First, in
00:19:44the domestic context, which is
00:19:47to extinguish the hotspots,
00:19:50then prevent the spread of
00:19:54the fire, prevent the impact of the smoke from crossing
00:19:58national borders, then provide protection for affected
00:20:02communities, and also ensure that the surrounding
00:20:05environment is not affected. The second approach is, of course,
00:20:09international cooperation, in accordance with the
00:20:12message in the ASEAN Agreement. So, in
00:20:15today's situation, I think it is very appropriate
00:20:19for us to "expect" assistance, so that the problem of
00:20:23forest and land fires does not drag on
00:20:27because the impact, as I have already conveyed, is not
00:20:30simple. The impact is very significant; there are health
00:20:34issues, there are also disrupted economic activities. Not
00:20:38only Indonesia, but also other countries that are members
00:20:41of the ASEAN Agreement. The third approach is law enforcement,
00:20:45as already conveyed by Mas
00:20:48Wahyu and Mas Hidayat earlier, that law enforcement is
00:20:52one of the important keys to handling the problem of
00:20:56forest and land fires. Law enforcement that is impartial and targets
00:20:59anyone who is suspected of
00:21:03setting fires, including corporations. Corporations should not then
00:21:07disappear from the legal radar.
00:21:11I think that's it. Can there be intervention from neighboring
00:21:14countries? So, for example, if there's an issue with law enforcement,
00:21:17like one person sets a fire
00:21:20and gets a short sentence, can neighboring countries intervene
00:21:24and say, "This is too lenient, it should be harsher?" How about that?
00:21:27Well, I think in that context, intervention
00:21:31is certainly not allowed, because the
00:21:34authority of a country to enforce
00:21:37laws against someone within its territory, including
00:21:41imposing sentences on someone within its territory, is a very fundamental
00:21:45principle. This means there is a territorial
00:21:48principle, which states that a country has the right
00:21:52to apply its laws to anyone
00:21:55within its territory, and it should not be interfered
00:21:59with regarding the sentence. In that context,
00:22:03other countries should not intervene.
00:22:06However, Indonesia has an obligation, because in this case, the impact
00:22:10is on other countries, on Malaysia, on
00:22:13Brunei, on the Philippines. This means Indonesia has an obligation, I think,
00:22:17to then report the progress of handling forest
00:22:20fires, not only the progress in handling
00:22:23or extinguishing the fires, but also
00:22:26how law enforcement is carried out against
00:22:30parties who are involved or suspected of
00:22:33committing such acts. So, that progress needs to be reported so that
00:22:36Indonesia's credibility in the international community,
00:22:40especially in handling cases of
00:22:44forest and land fires, then becomes good.
00:22:47Because we don't want to have another
00:22:51forest and land fire incident, and then the impact spreads to other
00:22:55countries, and then when
00:22:58there is law enforcement, that law enforcement is not shown transparently
00:23:02to other countries. What does that mean? We want to build
00:23:05an international perception of Indonesia,
00:23:08especially in the context of forest and land fires,
00:23:12to be a good perception, that Indonesia is very serious
00:23:15about handling its forests,
00:23:18its lands, its fires, but also very
00:23:22serious when there is an indication that these forest and
00:23:25land fires are carried out by certain individuals or
00:23:29certain corporations. So, I think that international perception needs
00:23:32to be maintained so that the international community or other countries do not
00:23:36see Indonesia as not serious about the problem
00:23:39of forest and land fires. Okay, Mas Wahyu,
00:23:43how can the public assess the seriousness
00:23:46of the government in handling forest and land fires, as
00:23:50Mas Ogi said? What indicators should be regularly disclosed,
00:23:53starting from the area burned, the condition of the peat, law enforcement,
00:23:57and of course, environmental restoration
00:24:13there is a company that is sanctioned,
00:24:16disclosed, because administrative sanction decrees
00:24:20determine how much area must
00:24:23be restored, how much of its permit or operation
00:24:27is frozen in certain areas.
00:24:30Unfortunately, the Secretary General of the Ministry of Forestry's
00:24:34decree No. 71/2025 classifies administrative sanction
00:24:39information. If we look at the principles of public
00:24:42information, anything related to the public,
00:24:45outside of strategic matters related to the national defense system,
00:24:50be exempted information. So, that's one
00:24:54thing, including, actually, this is also for notes and
00:24:58input that we have provided in writing. If there is a new
00:25:04and Mangrove Management Agency, which is planned,
00:25:07it must have authority over concessions, because many
00:25:11are not careful.
00:25:14When BRG became BRGM, the supervision
00:25:17authority over concessions was removed. That's one thing. The
00:25:21second is, if many policies are found
00:25:25to increase the risk of forest fires and
00:25:28land fires, especially in peatland ecosystems, an open evaluation
00:25:32must be conducted. Third, let's not forget
00:25:36that it is important
00:25:38in the context of law enforcement that the next
00:25:42responsibility is restoration. If we look at
00:25:45the clause on absolute liability in Article 88 of
00:25:48the Environmental Protection and Management Law, its
00:25:52content concerns environmental damage and environmental
00:25:56restoration. If we look
00:25:59carried out by the Forest Fire Task Force or, for example,
00:26:02in the context of Sumatra were seized
00:26:06and then handed over to state-owned enterprises, which then
00:26:09managed them again. in the context of an eco-type
00:26:13of monoculture, the same large-scale plantations, even though if
00:26:16it is then proven to cause
00:26:19damage and especially in this context
00:26:22forest and land fires will occur continuously, the first
00:26:26effort must be ecosystem restoration because it has been
00:26:30calculated repeatedly, for example. The World
00:26:33Bank has only twice carried out at least
00:26:37in the last decade, in its country report, in the
00:26:40context of the Indonesian economy, only twice related to forest and land fires
00:26:44in the 2015 fires and in the 2019
00:26:47fires.
00:26:49The numbers, if compared to
00:26:53the profits of monoculture plantations, the restoration efforts
00:26:56and environmental losses are many times greater.
00:27:00I think it's interesting
00:27:03that Mr. Hidayat reminded us that the key word in the context of law enforcement
00:27:07is transparency, including at each stage
00:27:10of the process. Open data not
00:27:13only makes it easier for the public but also for
00:27:16law enforcement. We often, for example, communicate and
00:27:20discuss with BKAKUM.
00:27:22Their access to data is often also hampered
00:27:25by bureaucracy. The easiest way is to open it
00:27:29to the public, because, for example, it is shown that
00:27:32in the context of mining and forestry,
00:27:36open data does not correlate with business
00:27:39competition, because that is concession data.
00:27:42So if there is a regional government preparing spatial
00:27:45planning, it no longer needs to for handling that
00:27:49see whether it is a peat ecosystem or not, whether
00:27:52it is then included in forest areas or not. This bureaucratic
00:27:55process and closed data
00:27:58make it very difficult not only in the context of
00:28:01disasters. Its handling becomes difficult, but also in the context
00:28:05of spatial planning governance, it often overlaps. I think that's it.
00:28:09Thank you, to Mr. Hidayat, lastly,
00:28:12what is the government's communication strategy to deal with public anxiety due to
00:28:16haze, especially in the areas most directly affected,
00:28:25strategy, we have a media and information sub-division below
00:28:29that continues to monitor and also
00:28:32coordinate various information between ministries, institutions, and
00:28:36also to the public. One
00:28:39of the challenges that must be faced in our
00:28:42disaster management, I always say in various discussions, there
00:28:46are communication, coordination, and collaboration aspects.
00:28:49This communication has become
00:28:52a challenge and we see in various ministries and institutions
00:28:55such as the Ministry of Communication and Information, BNPB,
00:28:58TNI, Ministry of Forestry, KLH and also. The
00:29:02Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs and also the Communication Agency of the Government of the Republic of Indonesia also
00:29:06provide or convey messages,
00:29:10communication dissemination and, of course, including
00:29:13transparency in the future regarding law
00:29:16enforcement and also how
00:29:19the processes on the ground related
00:29:23local governments and also communication to
00:29:27the community continue to be carried out in various
00:29:30ministries and institutions. Up to now and also
00:29:34for this forest and land fire, it is commanded by the Coordinating
00:29:38Minister for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs and there is also a sub-division including the media
00:29:41and information sub-division so that messages can also
00:29:45be conveyed, including what I mentioned earlier
00:29:48that there are concerns and reports
00:29:51from the community, especially in the area of
00:29:54Tanjung Puting National Park, and that has been directly reported to the president
00:29:58and also, as stated earlier by Mr.
00:30:01General, to directly respond
00:30:05to how reports in the community
00:30:08and also researchers and
00:30:11experts. We hope there is a national
00:30:15agency that is currently
00:30:17eh
00:30:19the president.
00:30:31And this also involves various campuses, various
00:30:35experts, and institutions as well, so that it can be directly
00:30:39conveyed by the President directly to
00:30:42the relevant ministries and institutions
00:30:45is more in agreement that it is not only in the emergency
00:30:49phase, so we have to change the paradigm from
00:30:52the pre-disaster phase. If, for example, people say the pre-disaster phase
00:30:56or the disaster risk reduction phase, Mr.?