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00:00:00this may indeed be due to the type of time, imagine
00:00:03that you took soup with a meatball at dinner,
00:00:07what do you eat first, the meatball, the soup?
00:00:10some people eat the
00:00:13meatball first, it's tasty, and then the soup,
00:00:16other people eat the soup first, and then eat
00:00:19the meatball, well, some eat it all together, these are people
00:00:23focused on the past on the past, they eat the
00:00:26meatball first, that is, they try to eat the tasty part
00:00:30first, the tasty part first, people focused on the future,
00:00:34they leave the tasty part, the meatball, for later, they eat the soup first, well, those
00:00:37in the present are those who eat a piece of both, in short,
00:00:41they tend to postpone the unpleasant
00:00:45for later, those who eat the meatball first,
00:00:48tell me, in our time, how much more
00:00:52common is procrastination than before, when the day was more structured,
00:00:56work was more rigid, before our time...
00:01:00was managed by someone else,
00:01:03superiors, family, in the end, if you take
00:01:06childhood, yes, mom wakes you up in the morning, go to
00:01:10school, bells ring at school, then
00:01:13you come home, let's say, the same mom meets you, sit down, study,
00:01:17well, or take a serf, a peasant,
00:01:21a factory worker, that is, the organization of your time was managed by
00:01:24someone external, now generally the welfare of society
00:01:28is quite good. people found themselves
00:01:31free, partly from external coercion, but
00:01:35still found themselves, and now we can manage
00:01:38our own time ourselves, but not everyone
00:01:41knows how, and how to defeat procrastination, how to
00:01:45manage time, well, as I already said, it depends on the type of
00:01:48person, in fact, it's hard to change your type,
00:01:52but, but first, it's desirable to know it, to know your
00:01:55peculiarity, and secondly, well, probably with training, like everything
00:01:59else. by creating a clear daily routine, in general there are
00:02:02many different ways to fight procrastination, for example, I read
00:02:06- the deepest one - is of course, to generally understand why you don't
00:02:10want to do it, why something became a tasty
00:02:13meatball, and something an untasty soup, how do you even live if you
00:02:16have so much untasty soup, I just love soup and as a
00:02:20metaphor, maybe a person's life is not completely well arranged, that
00:02:24he chose such a metaphorical soup, where a small tasty
00:02:27meatball floats, a large one...
00:03:08in fact, well, it's precisely this regulation, there's another interesting point, yes,
00:03:12for example, you have two things you don't want to do,
00:03:15clean the apartment and write your thesis, well,
00:03:19you don't want to write your thesis more, well, you can
00:03:22fill the time with cleaning the apartment, you couldn't make yourself clean
00:03:26the apartment either, but this way you can at least make yourself do something less unpleasant.
00:03:30you will actually get things done, and in general, is it bad or good to do
00:03:33nothing? why do we think it's bad? because our
00:03:37body is programmed to what we must do,
00:03:41a person is predisposed to
00:03:44activity, he must do something, well,
00:03:47work, exercise, run, anything,
00:03:50otherwise he will feel
00:03:53bad, guilty, or something else, yes,
00:03:56we, and how to overcome this feeling of guilt, to start? do something, well,
00:04:00or accept that you can do nothing,
00:04:03it's very hard to accept, but
00:04:06you can certainly accept it, but you understand what an organism
00:04:10is and that an organism needs
00:04:13physical exertion, beta-endorphins
00:04:16are released, but it also needs rest,
00:04:20rest, of course, I have an appeal, an appeal to all our
00:04:23listeners, to try at least 15 minutes a day
00:04:26to do nothing,
00:04:29roughly speaking,
00:05:00we are currently conducting an experiment, we
00:05:02are looking at how daytime
00:05:06sleep affects the state of health, various
00:05:09components of health, physiological,
00:05:23I have several volunteers who agreed to sleep during the day, we just started, talked about 15 minutes, well, 15-30 minutes, it's not that big a deal, it's not just sitting, doing nothing, but
00:05:27lying down, relaxing, closing
00:05:29your eyes, clearing all thoughts, that is, you just don't
00:05:33think them, at least don't think verbally, that is, don't
00:05:36talk to yourself, you can, let images
00:05:39come, well, first of all, the first
00:05:43question, can you fall asleep from that, the second
00:05:46question, how does it affect a person, we have the first results
00:05:49already summarized, so, first, it's very difficult
00:05:53to force yourself, even those who can lie down for 15
00:05:56minutes, relax, close their eyes, just lie down, if you can't
00:06:00fall asleep, your task is to lie down for 15 minutes, by the way, it's interesting from the point of view
00:06:03of biological control, as a rule, people wake up
00:06:07themselves after 15 minutes, or open their eyes, that is, this
00:06:1115-minute rhythm. well, yes, the
00:06:13person, through it, almost always wakes up, you can
00:06:17then fall asleep again if you want, well, and
00:06:20secondly, yes, I already said, the first fact is that it's very difficult
00:06:24to force yourself, for some reason it seems to a person that these 15
00:06:27minutes, they are, well, so necessary, when he lies down, he
00:06:30wants to think about something, and his thoughts seem to him, his own, so
00:06:34important, that well, how can he not think about this, and
00:06:37then yes, we want to see if it affects
00:06:41health, I already said, remained...
00:08:12it's eternity, in youth it usually
00:08:15flows, but in old age it accelerates,
00:08:19an elderly person feels like they just opened their eyes,
00:08:22it's evening, and days fly by and you don't
00:08:24notice them, besides having to fill
00:08:28your days, well, our advice, we also need to understand that the
00:08:32perception of time changes, there are two answers to
00:08:35this question, why, well, with age time accelerates,
00:08:39one is psychological, the other, I would say.
00:09:12in fact, this is a good answer from the point of view
00:09:15of time management, yes, but we just need to compare
00:09:19time not with the duration of life, but there is
00:09:22another study, conducted in Japan 2 years ago, I think,
00:09:26we have neurons in the parietal cortex,
00:09:30which are responsible for the perception of time,
00:09:33with age these neurons
00:09:37get tired, are inhibited, stop
00:09:40exciting and... and accordingly,
00:09:44fewer neurons in a person begin to participate in
00:09:47the perception of a time interval, as a result, time
00:09:50accelerates for him, fewer neurons that perceive time,
00:09:54then in old age on the one hand there is a
00:09:57phenomenon that time rushes, on the other
00:10:00hand it becomes difficult to get something done in a short
00:10:04period, if before, for example, you got ready for work in 15
00:10:07minutes, then now it doesn't work in 15
00:10:10not because you... get tired faster, not because the body
00:10:14is sick or something else, it just doesn't work, many are
00:10:18surprised by this, well, why before I got ready in 15 minutes,
00:10:21now I just can't in 15, that's it.
00:10:26remained, well, this is considered to be related to the fact that
00:10:30the perception of time has changed, now these 15 minutes are for you
00:10:33like 10, like five, well
00:10:36subjectively, yes, and you don't make
00:10:39it in time, although in principle you could have, what
00:10:43to do with this, if we take
00:10:46the biopsychological concept, because maybe it's
00:10:49sadder, yes, then it turns out that you need to teach
00:10:53neurons not to get tired. and that's a question
00:10:57of how not to age or how to rejuvenate, there's no answer
00:11:01to that yet, well, another option, in old age
00:11:04it is believed that such an indicator as
00:11:07life awareness awareness, mindfulness, well, such
00:11:11an indicator, you need to use
00:11:13this awareness for time management, that is,
00:11:17it turns out to be self-control, that is, you control yourself during
00:11:21these 15 minutes to make it in time, and many?
00:11:25where there is some kind of aging plan,
00:11:27when I turn 60, 70, God willing
00:11:3180, what will I do, how will I fill my
00:11:34life? I think that people don't have such
00:11:38a plan, and even pensioners
00:11:40who have retired don't have such a plan, there were such
00:11:44studies, but if we take a younger
00:11:48age, you know, there were also old studies, up to what age
00:11:51people imagine their life, that is, how they...
00:11:55see it, how much it is
00:11:57imagined for them, and at about 18 years old
00:12:01they imagined, well, like up to
00:12:0325,
00:12:06interestingly, at 22 also up to 25, so this is such a
00:12:09turning point, well, apparently people enroll, study
00:12:13there, at 25
00:12:15they imagined up to thirty, I talked to some people,
00:12:19asked, yes, who did you imagine, many of them roughly
00:12:22assumed that, this...
00:12:40well, people are already, but this is such a turning point, yes, but it turns out that people imagine up to retirement, and there, well, nothing
00:12:44was imagined there, there was no program, no plan
00:12:47for fulfillment, so, therefore I appeal to our
00:12:50viewers and listeners, imagine that you are 80, what will you do? year,
00:15:25and now 23-24
00:15:27is the completion of adolescence, so
00:15:31that well,
00:15:34the maturation is delayed and preserved.
00:15:37such a teenage period, and what is a teenager, why
00:15:41adolescent, yes, not youth, how does a teenager differ from a young man, well, in
00:15:45principle, not by independence, he
00:15:49needs care, help, a teenager, this is
00:15:53generally some infantilization, self-discovery, and
00:15:56accordingly, some need for support, while he is
00:16:00searching for himself, and a young man is already, firstly,
00:16:03having left the parental family, distancing himself, living
00:16:07independently, he is still young, but, but he
00:16:10is already independent, so that the fact that adolescence
00:16:14has expanded, this has expanded the time of adolescence,
00:16:18self-discovery, well, and dependence and
00:16:21the need for support, such a
00:16:24social feature, firstly, people study until this age,
00:16:27they are not independent, yes, secondly, such a decision, as it were,
00:16:31of the same World Health Organization, and you know, I think this
00:16:34is correct, it corresponds to...
00:17:07editor of a magazine with the same name "Schrödinger's
00:17:10Cat". And we talk about very important
00:17:14things from the point of view of science. Today
00:17:17we are talking about time. We have Tatiana
00:17:21Berezina, psychologist, professor of the Department of Extreme
00:17:24Psychology of the Moscow State Psychological and Pedagogical
00:17:28University as our guest. From the point of view of extreme psychology,
00:17:32what is time? They say that when a person is in some terrible situation,
00:17:35falling or...
00:18:37it seemed to him that a huge amount of time had passed, he saw
00:18:41cracks on the ceiling, anything, though he couldn't move,
00:18:44it turns out that for some people still,
00:18:48yes, subjectively, time stretches, accelerates, do whatever you want, but more
00:18:51is done, the task is to be able to cram into this more
00:18:55not only perception, but also
00:18:58action, the one that can save you, some
00:19:02say that they succeeded in this,
00:19:05well, it reminds a little of a scene from the Matrix, when... a bullet flies and the heroes
00:19:08dodge it, remember in the movie, but look, doesn't it seem
00:19:12to you that many people choose some extreme,
00:19:15risky options of behavior, no matter,
00:19:19they go to hot spots, jump off a cliff or something
00:19:22else, to increase their time, they
00:19:25increase, after such an experience, firstly, all this
00:19:29their, and this day for them
00:19:33stretched out and was remembered, and the vacation, if they did it on vacation,
00:19:38well, and the extreme situation itself, it
00:19:42can be that they flew for 5 minutes, for them it's
00:19:45an hour, well, when it's not 5 minutes, but 5 months,
00:19:49probably a whole big life turns out, when you are always
00:19:53risking, when something threatens you, but
00:19:56you also age, you know, if you take people
00:19:59in extreme professions, those who are, well,
00:20:02a hobby, I can't say, but a study
00:20:05of representatives of professions of special risk. experienced
00:21:08all the same loads, training, well, for the cosmonaut detachment
00:21:12their own risk, but they never accomplished
00:21:15their feat, that is, it's not about physiology, but rather about meanings, something, it seems,
00:21:19when people with...
00:22:20to live, and if there's no reason to live, then he
00:22:22dies. Perhaps this is a very complex study,
00:22:26to study precisely this, I don't
00:22:29know researchers who could
00:22:32subject precisely this to experimental verification, so that
00:22:35the presence of a global meaning for a person, why
00:22:39live, prolongs his life, about the cosmonaut, we did good research,
00:22:42yes, but what happened there, and here
00:22:46there is Viktor Frankl's famous study, which he did in concentration camps.
00:22:50You understand that this is not scientific research,
00:22:53subjective observation of a person.
00:22:56Well, naturally, we cannot conduct an experiment in a concentration camp. I
00:22:59remind those who do not know this wonderful psychologist, he
00:23:03ended up in a fascist concentration camp and
00:23:06constantly observed himself and those around him,
00:23:10and in fact, having been liberated,
00:23:12having survived, he created, well, a special direction of psychology related
00:23:16to meanings, and he owns a wonderful
00:23:20quote, taken from his experience in a concentration camp: whoever knows
00:23:23why, will endure any how, and those who
00:23:26understood why they lived, even in the hellish conditions of a concentration camp,
00:23:30survived more often than those who lost this
00:23:33meaning, probably, that's how it was, if we
00:23:37objectively studied it, most likely we would confirm it, God forbid,
00:23:40of course, well, I understand, but if we don't live in a concentration camp, imagine
00:23:44one person has something to live for, he has some
00:23:47global goal, and another person just.
00:23:59that is, he doesn't have a global meaning, but he's not in a concentration camp, he just lives, who will live longer, that is, will the presence of such a meaning, the need to live
00:24:03another 10 years, prolong a person's life compared
00:24:06to one who doesn't have such a need, that's
00:24:10the question, for this
00:24:13question, I don't know the answer, yes, it would be very
00:24:16interesting to study this, but I can't even imagine it yet.
00:25:20it turned out that academicians, full members of the Academy
00:25:23of Sciences live longer than corresponding members,
00:25:26excellent, I've never heard of that, well, yes, and than, for example,
00:25:30ordinary professors, so it turns out that, well,
00:25:33so to speak,
00:25:35achievements, well, the ability to work
00:25:39for a long time, again, a higher level of career,
00:25:42gives the opportunity to live
00:25:45longer, let's dream a little, after all. we all want
00:25:48to live longer, not to
00:25:52get old longer, to be young longer,
00:25:55cheerful, as I understand, science is now
00:25:58looking for ways to prolong human youth, to make him...
00:26:33well, calculate the percentage that depends on the environment, and that
00:26:37on heredity, in general, in Russia, about 36% of life expectancy
00:26:40depends on heredity,
00:26:43the rest on the environment, in America there was a similar
00:26:47study, they got 25% from heredity, the rest
00:26:50from the environment, on the one hand it
00:26:53seems that it's
00:26:56great, but on the other hand, if you analyze it, it doesn't
00:26:59mean that, for example, you lived...
00:27:02up to 50 years, yes, that's only 36%, I can
00:27:05live up to 150, this
00:27:08rather means that there is some, presumably
00:27:12limit of life, which is programmed
00:27:16biologically and
00:27:19it is now believed that this limit is quite large, about
00:27:23100, 120 years, well, approximately so researchers
00:27:27assert, and we can organize our lives
00:27:30so as to live these, well, let it be... 100 years, uh,
00:27:34in sound mind, solid memory, with good
00:27:37health, here too, we will now talk about psychology,
00:27:41because it is clear that medicine is working on this, biology, well, everyone is working,
00:27:45they are looking for their own ways, and we, as it were, say,
00:27:48what can we, psychologists, offer for the
00:27:51possibility of somehow extending your life,
00:27:53increasing its productive period
00:27:57of life, let's call it that, well, my colleague from St. Petersburg
00:28:01University, they developed... a strategy, well, for extending
00:28:04the productive period of life, prosperous, there are 22
00:28:07factors, some of them are good sleep, another is control
00:28:10of food, healthy lifestyle and so on. We
00:28:14assumed that a person's life consists of three large
00:28:17spheres: work, family, free time,
00:28:20we, yes, work, we already said, successful work
00:28:24prolongs life, a good prosperous family, loving,
00:28:28in principle, also prolongs life, but this does not depend on us, we
00:28:31stopped at the fact that... what we psychologists can advise is
00:28:34managing free time, because
00:28:38I can tell you, you need a successful job, everyone wants that without me, I can say,
00:28:42I recommend you a prosperous, kind, loving,
00:28:45financially secure family, that's clear without me,
00:28:48how to organize free time, that's the question,
00:28:51we actually developed a program that allows you to correctly select
00:28:55suitable resources, that is, what to do in your free time, what
00:28:59hobby is recommended for a particular person, what sport?
00:29:42Thank you very much, Tatyana, thank you very much to our
00:29:45viewers and listeners, with you is the Schrödinger's Cat
00:29:48podcast, and I am its host, Grigory Tarasevich,
00:29:52many thanks to Tatyana Berezina, who was our guest
00:29:55today, Professor of the Moscow State
00:29:58Psychological and Pedagogical University, Department of Extreme Psychology.