Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:13:45epochs, individual periods,
00:15:41Hello, this is the Psyche podcast and we continue to analyze
00:15:45the most difficult situations and look for solutions where it seemed that there
00:15:49might not be any. Each of us, for sure,
00:15:52has experienced this unpleasant feeling
00:15:55of wasted time on social
00:15:58networks. Our heroine today came to us
00:16:02with exactly this request: Marina suffers from
00:16:05social network addiction. Practicing
00:16:08clinical psychologist Olga Savkin will try
00:16:11to understand Marina's situation and I hope
00:16:14to give recommendations that will be useful to each of us.
00:16:18So, you found out that you
00:16:20are addicted? The thing is that I noticed that I
00:16:24wake up, immediately pick up my phone, fall asleep
00:16:28with my phone, and for a long time I didn't even think
00:16:31that something was wrong, that it was something off. I'm not sure
00:16:35right now what I can say. Clearly, confidently,
00:16:37I
00:16:42still cannot diagnose myself, I cannot call it an addiction, a specially trained person should do this, but I can clearly
00:16:45say that phones and social networks in particular
00:16:49have started to interfere with me in my daily
00:16:53life. So let's try to figure out how
00:16:56this happens, can you describe your typical day to us, and
00:16:59I wake up, pick up my phone, go
00:17:03to social networks, scroll
00:17:06through the feed, and watch videos just
00:17:09to quickly, quickly somehow, I don't know why, it happens that way, I'm like, I
00:17:13need to wash my face, well, now, and I
00:17:16go downstairs, sit on the couch and I'm like, okay, just 5 more minutes, and
00:17:20again you take out your phone, that is, yes, I continue, I think, just
00:17:23a little more, I washed my face, again I sit down, I'm like,
00:17:26now, just a little more, just a little more, and I want to sleep, and it
00:17:29seems to you that you are a little relaxed when
00:17:33you scroll through the feed, and the thing is that
00:17:36of course, when I go to shower, I
00:17:39don't scroll through the feed, thank goodness, but
00:17:43it's essential that I have music playing, or some
00:17:46podcast, in general, it's really hard for me to be
00:17:49in silence, so it's like you're wrapping yourself
00:17:53in this informational something, yes, yes, so
00:17:56it turns out that if I don't get information, then
00:18:00I don't know, I start to feel some anxiety, that I either won't
00:18:03have time for something in this life, or I'll miss something very important. Well,
00:18:07or just what else should I do? How at work? It all
00:18:11started there, in fact, it
00:18:14was initially small projects, small problems, yes, that is,
00:18:18and you kind of live with all this,
00:18:20not noticing that you have a cat, dirty
00:18:24dishes, possibly, that is, you are there, and from there
00:18:28gradually, the bigger the projects became, the bigger this
00:18:31addiction became. Olga, well, is it a familiar story, from the point of view of the
00:18:35requests that people come to you with?
00:18:37I think this is a very familiar story for every person in our
00:18:41modern society, mhm, yes,
00:18:44of course I have a question, I heard, Natalia,
00:18:48when you pronounced - such a preamble,
00:18:51you said that Marina suffers,
00:18:55I really want to ask, Marina, are you suffering from this or is it a high,
00:18:58after all, because when you get stuck in the mornings, just a little bit, and your eyes
00:19:01closed, and your body demonstrated this pleasure,
00:19:04what is the suffering? Actually, I was thinking about this, mhm,
00:19:08about whether I really
00:19:12suffer, and it's like, well, in fact, no, it's really
00:19:15pleasure, joy, and so on, but when I realize that it
00:19:19interferes, that is, I can be more productive, I can
00:19:22enjoy myself differently, get pleasure from life
00:19:26in some other ways,
00:19:28can you, well, in fact, I can,
00:19:32mhm, but why is it
00:19:35to go to some exhibition or somewhere,
00:19:39it's like, when I'm already in the process, I enjoy it,
00:19:42coming home, well, I somehow even remember, again
00:19:46I keep thinking that damn, well, I took photos and videos,
00:19:50that's great, now I would edit it like this, and it will get so many
00:19:54views, that is, it's always like this red thread in my life
00:19:57is present, but I understand that the pleasure from some
00:20:01deeper things, than just these clickable
00:20:04little things, is more lasting. And it really
00:20:08is somehow, well, I don't know, it can be felt, but
00:20:11it's easiest and fastest for me if I'm
00:20:14stressed or, well, I don't know, yes, always, if I'm
00:20:18happy, if I'm sad, if I'm cheerful, that is, it's always social networks,
00:20:22Marina, please tell me, and the problem that
00:20:25interferes, if we imagine for a second that it's no
00:20:28longer there, just no longer there, what will
00:20:32happen in life then, well, I don't know, the first thing that comes
00:20:35to my mind is this... that I'm out of
00:20:39the information field, I won't be able to
00:20:43find out something about my, for example, the same acquaintances,
00:20:47I will be somehow out of trends. I know, I won't
00:20:50catch up, but if we assume that
00:20:53everything will remain as it is, we came to
00:20:56the show today, you had a great time, you got some
00:21:00new joyful hormonal
00:21:03reinforcement, posted a lot of stories from here right away, of course,
00:21:06well, all the needs are met in our
00:21:10modernity, and then
00:21:12nothing happens, and what will happen then if you don't
00:21:16solve this problem, what will happen with life next, most likely... it will
00:21:20just be very monotonous always, that is,
00:21:24I, in general, if you recall, well, the past
00:21:27week, the past 2-3 weeks, morning
00:21:31and evening always begin and end
00:21:34the same way, in fact, it's precisely the monotony
00:21:38and precisely this moment that you're wasting your life, it's
00:21:41very scary, it turns out
00:21:44that it always seems to us that it's
00:21:47endless, we probably don't think that it
00:21:51can happen, well, that it's given to us for a limited
00:21:54time, and well, beyond
00:21:57just regretting that you didn't do something
00:22:00or couldn't remove some,
00:22:03well, some, as it seemed, nonsense, but which
00:22:07takes up a huge amount of your daily life,
00:22:11takes up a huge amount of time, well, I just don't want to
00:22:14then sit and watch and think, Lord, may I ask
00:22:18you, when you are now... delivering your speech, could you
00:22:21attribute to yourself what you are talking about, this means
00:22:25the "I" position, that is, I miss something not from the position
00:22:29of "you," right, as we are used to, the generally accepted
00:22:32form of speech, through "you," right when it starts
00:22:36with "I," maybe it will be a little different, let's explain to our viewers
00:22:39why this is important, and to Marina too, why you need to say, to translate
00:22:43this reflection, to actually pronounce
00:22:46it aloud, this is "I," the "I" position is always based on...
00:23:20the question: what will happen to your life if everything remains
00:23:23the same, but with the "I" position? I will
00:23:27waste it, first of all, uselessly, yes, everything will pass by,
00:23:31and absolutely, well,
00:23:34in fact, I will feel 100% unhappy, and
00:23:37100% I will think about what, damn, why, well,
00:23:41just sometimes, well, if you recall, yes, there
00:23:44literally, for example, 3 years in a row you spent on
00:23:48something, I spent. I spent on something, that
00:23:52now I sit and think, why, and I don't want
00:23:55there to be social networks, if I understand
00:23:59that I'm roughly in the same story as 3 years ago,
00:24:03why do I need this, if in the end I don't
00:24:06know after how long, but I will look back and
00:24:09say, well, how could I, when
00:24:13the weather is so wonderful, until 2 pm on
00:24:16a weekend, scroll through the feed, if I could
00:24:19go for a walk, you have everything great, please go,
00:24:23entertain yourself and all that, but still I'm like, well, yes,
00:24:27now, now, just a little more, this
00:24:30"just a little more," "just a little more," and I just don't want
00:24:34the moment to come when this
00:24:36"just a little more" has ended, and I
00:24:40remained like this, in this position,
00:24:44mhm, and what is the most frightening thing
00:24:46to miss, one's own self-realization, in fact?
00:24:50Oh, how so, but it's happening right
00:24:53now, from morning till evening, self-realization, I wake
00:24:56up in the morning, take my phone, and think, I must not
00:24:59miss anything, but at the same time I'm afraid of the same
00:25:02thing at the end of my life, did I hear
00:25:06correctly, possibly, but
00:25:09there's a nuance, when, well, my
00:25:12profession, yes, that is, I communicate with people and promote something through
00:25:16social networks for them, that is, either businesses or personal brands
00:25:20and so on, when I do
00:25:23this for them, I fully, well, invest myself, with
00:25:27huge pleasure, tracking all
00:25:30those trends for them that I'm so afraid of missing, but there's
00:25:33a moment that I have such a
00:25:36desire to do this with myself, yes, with my, well, to actually
00:25:39realize myself through these same social
00:25:42networks and some kind of manifestation through them,
00:25:45but myself, every time I want
00:25:49something, I... start and say: that's it, from today
00:25:52I'm not just scrolling the feed, I'm
00:25:55working on creating content, that is, I'm giving it, not
00:25:59consuming it. As soon as I tell myself this,
00:26:02everything happens to me, oh,
00:26:05my side hurts a little, let's scroll, it will pass, oh, I'm still, that is,
00:26:09it's like, I don't know how to explain it, in fact,
00:26:12but as soon as I need to make exactly the decision
00:26:16that I want, really badly,
00:26:20but some kind of stupor happens, that I turn here,
00:26:24like, well, now, time flies very quickly, that is, I don't even notice that
00:26:27an hour and a half or two hours can pass, let's ask Olga about
00:26:31something from physiology
00:26:34or neurophysiology, what is happening to Marina,
00:26:38yes, to each of us, who are stuck on a TV series,
00:26:41on short videos, on some
00:26:45feed, because it feels like we don't fully
00:26:49control this situation, consciously, it's as if
00:26:52some deep biochemical processes
00:26:55control us at this moment, thank you for
00:26:58the question, it generally contains the answer, of course.
00:27:02This is a very beautiful, delicious
00:27:06story with dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter and hormone
00:27:09that actually helps us feel pleasure
00:27:13and helps achieve
00:27:16the next neurotransmitter hormone serotonin, the hormone
00:27:19of joy. Dopamine was once given to us evolutionarily in order
00:27:23to make us focus, gather
00:27:26our bodies, react in some way and get
00:27:29at least food or water, right? And
00:27:33get pleasure, remember when you are thirsty, when you drink, what
00:27:36do you do at that moment, yes, oh, how
00:27:40good, this "how good" is, in fact,
00:27:43dopamine addiction, because,
00:27:47mhm, we very
00:27:51quickly, through, if we are talking about
00:27:54physiology, through bright pictures, through
00:27:57a quick change of some information very
00:28:01superficially, indeed. We need to mention this, because everything that
00:28:04we quickly scroll through, is stored only in short-term memory,
00:28:08nothing remains in long-term memory, from the word
00:28:11zero, that is, we cannot remember
00:28:15what was there 5 days ago, after
00:28:19scrolling through some feeds for 7 days in a row, we cannot, but
00:28:22at the same time we constantly maintain a certain
00:28:25level of joy in ourselves
00:28:28through this neurotransmitter story, through
00:28:31dopamine. And naturally, by receiving
00:28:35positive reinforcement, we
00:28:37need more and more,
00:28:40because this is called tolerance, when
00:28:44we receive a certain set of such
00:28:47good quality pleasure and satisfaction for ourselves, we already
00:28:51it's boring, we need more, we need, like with any other addiction,
00:28:54absolutely, yes, that is, it's a behavioral addiction, by the way,
00:28:58now there's already a name for the fear of being without...
00:29:32behavior, well, tell me, it seems like, yes, that you can't, I know it
00:29:36from myself, but I, like many girls, yes, especially during periods of stress
00:29:40or anxiety, of course, I start snacking, eating away my
00:29:43feelings and not following any routine, yes, and you get,
00:29:47as soon as you go to the fridge, hop, and there's something tasty there, and you
00:29:51get this short-term injection of joy, you sort of
00:29:54consoled yourself, yes, you consoled yourself with this
00:29:58forbidden piece, the most interesting thing is that the more you think
00:30:01about the fact that I... should lead a healthy lifestyle, I shouldn't
00:30:04snack, I shouldn't eat what
00:30:08I shouldn't eat, the sweeter the pleasure you get from
00:30:11the forbidden fruit, it turns out that here it's
00:30:14the same thing, no matter how much Marina talked to
00:30:17herself about her life passing by, about half
00:30:20a day flying by instead of a park
00:30:22or an exhibition, still this
00:30:26shameful pleasure not only remains, but probably gives
00:30:30more and more of that very dopamine rush, which only
00:30:33tells us, of course, that this is actually quite often
00:30:37such compulsive behavior, this
00:30:40is some obsessive idea to do something,
00:30:44for example, to eat something delicious, yes, or
00:30:47to go on social media, but when it comes to
00:30:51eating behavior, I have some real fear, I will become,
00:30:54for example, of some size, I won't be able to wear some
00:30:58beautiful clothes anymore, and so on, or I'll get diabetes,
00:31:01for example. It's very easy to logically deduce from
00:31:04our examples, which we clearly see, well, that is, you
00:31:08mean that
00:31:11a person understands what it leads to, so he can stop.
00:31:45Well, somewhere Viktor Frankl is crying, yes, who would be very useful
00:31:49now in this search for the meaning of life, yes, but in general, this worries you, very
00:31:53speculatively, mhm, but
00:31:56here, I have already noticed in this conversation absolutely
00:31:59exactly, and there is
00:32:02a certain point that I would like to talk about, I want to present not
00:32:06clients, myself, right, did I hear correctly, mhm, that is this is about
00:32:10self-presentation, mhm, why do we need to self-present in a modern
00:32:13way? So that I would be recognized,
00:32:17to see love, this is
00:32:21what everyone is looking for, alcoholics,
00:32:24people who suffer from chemical addiction, these are all actually
00:32:28behavioral addictions, we go there, where it was once not
00:32:32enough, and now I'm trying to compensate for it in some
00:32:36very fast, convenient way, and this will be an illusion
00:32:39of recognition, I mean, regarding
00:32:43my own manifestation in society.
00:32:45Yes, I have some goals, ambitions, and this has been since
00:32:48childhood, when likes, comments, and everything else were not even
00:32:52in sight, now, when I understand why I need to do these
00:32:56or those actions specifically for myself, and not for a client, I
00:33:00precisely lack regularity, consistency,
00:33:03constancy, in general, the point is how to
00:33:06delineate the moment, I got confused about where this
00:33:10lack of love is, yes, and where we only look at likes, and where is the
00:33:14moment of realization of how you
00:33:17see it and what you want to see yourself as, say, in
00:33:21a few years,
00:33:24is it also connected to some lack of love, or maybe
00:33:27there's some practicality and you want this
00:33:31ambition, and then there's still what's with
00:33:34the likes, I just don't know how to explain it, it depends on what the ambition is based on, what
00:33:38we ultimately want to achieve,
00:33:42I have clearly written goals and so on...
00:35:15social media, mhm, what am I doing, what am I doing, and this question
00:35:19can be repeated so many times when
00:35:22we don't come to the final understanding of what
00:35:25I am doing right now, this is a very interesting chain, actually, a very
00:35:29deep one it turns out,
00:35:32so in the end, when we got this answer, you can ask
00:35:36yourself the question, am I wasting my life right now or
00:35:39not, mhm, yes this, but she has to want to ask
00:35:43herself that question at that moment. When she is engrossed, for example,
00:35:47in short videos, of course, naturally, how
00:35:50to do it, it's to write yourself, I don't know, a note, so that in the morning
00:35:54you wake up and you see it, of course,
00:35:57in fact, if we knew the final
00:36:00target picture of where I actually want to go, well,
00:36:04or where I don't want to go, but Marina, where you want to go, yes, it would be
00:36:07easier to plan the route, naturally, like a
00:36:10GPS point that we set as the final one, or we get in a taxi, we
00:36:14say: please take me to this address, if
00:36:18we don't tell the taxi driver the address, he will drive us in
00:36:21circles, making money from us, mhm, in the end
00:36:24we will just lose a lot of time. We will never reach
00:36:28the final point, because we didn't name it,
00:36:31so if we know our GPS point exactly, we can build
00:36:35a route to it, how far should this point be, this point should be, this very day,
00:36:39today I generally, for example, don't look at social
00:36:43networks for more than an hour not for work, or is this a point
00:36:4710 years from now, yes, in 10 years I am so successful and so on, I
00:36:50overcame my addiction a long time ago, what
00:36:54scale, what approximation do I propose to go. back, that
00:36:58is, to set a global point, yes,
00:37:01the main, main one, everything I want to get on that
00:37:05day, just take it and yourself, ideal you mean
00:37:08that, your ideal one, yes, your ideal day, which I want
00:37:12to get, say, in 50 years, go
00:37:15back, go back, and what do I want to get 10
00:37:19years ago, and another 10 years ago, and another 10, like
00:37:23five times, mhm, yes, what do I want, where do I want to be, on
00:37:26what march?
00:37:36built several decades ago, then for
00:37:39every 10 years we build even smaller
00:37:42steps, yes, that is, for each year, what do I want
00:37:46to achieve here, what do I want to achieve here, and then we
00:37:50get to the day, and what do I want to
00:37:54do today to reach this point?
00:37:58And what do I want? I want to wake up in the morning and
00:38:01for exactly 60 minutes be without my phone,
00:38:05mhm, and if without my phone, then how is that,
00:38:09what do I want to be with then, or with whom? I
00:38:12am now - actually,
00:38:15there is an answer, because I used to
00:38:19practice these morning
00:38:22rituals, it brought me great pleasure and
00:38:26resources and... and I really left the house feeling
00:38:30like I could move mountains, the world and, well, again,
00:38:33it was always
00:38:36fifteen-minute meditations, but when I
00:38:39specifically set out to practice these morning
00:38:42rituals, to dedicate the morning hours specifically to myself, I recorded
00:38:46the screen, I woke up, my phone was in sleep mode, I didn't
00:38:49put it away until this happened, meaning I basically turned on the screen
00:38:52recording, the video of the meditation played, so for those 15 minutes
00:38:56it was just me... Well,
00:39:36that is, I understand that there is Marina who helplessly gets stuck
00:39:39in this endless stream of videos, yes, and there is
00:39:43a successful, composed, conscious Marina who
00:39:46woke up, so and this answer, by the way,
00:39:50today,
00:39:52well, forgive the backstory, but it's important, in
00:39:55short, while...
00:39:58on the train still in St. Petersburg, I was talking to my dad, and I
00:40:01was explaining the situation to him, that I'm going to a shoot now, I'm very
00:40:05interested and I want to, but I need 2 days,
00:40:09conditionally, to skip work, and I was so
00:40:11worried, how can this be, how can I allow myself to do this, although
00:40:15well, everyone treats it adequately,
00:40:18and I explain to him, I say, and I really
00:40:22scolded myself for it and was so anxious, and then it was as if some other
00:40:25part of me took my hand and said: calm down! And I calmed down, and he tells me,
00:40:29well, how much more can it be, we've talked about this 100 times, you can allow yourself to do whatever
00:40:33you want, well, something like that, what a great dad you have, yes, but we
00:40:37really had a situation there again related to this super addicted
00:40:40person, where we really united
00:40:44and started discussing all this, so they support me a lot, and I tell him:
00:40:48you know, I just had a metaphor come to mind, and this is the answer to your
00:40:52question, I say, you know,