Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00resin is very pungant smell of it
00:00:02in the air right now, the delta wave
00:00:05of COVID
00:00:06of devastated India and I think it was the coverage that we did for the BBC at
00:00:10the time which brought international attention. What's
00:00:14happening here could affect the world's ability to recover from the
00:00:17pandemic? We've met with families who've had to do the
00:00:21unthinkable. Another person came up and asked if we'd like to buy their
00:00:25child. The
00:00:26of desperation is hard to put in words. Many
00:00:29of the stories. we've had to tell are distressing, they are difficult,
00:00:33but that's usually an indicator that they are really important stories
00:00:37to
00:00:37of tell.
00:00:44of
00:00:49now on BBC News, comprehensive coverage
00:00:53of the day's important national and international news
00:00:56stories (newsnight):
00:01:02of Two nights of
00:01:06violence
00:01:07of over housing asylum seekers this time in Norfok. New Prime
00:01:10Minister, same local concern. How will the
00:01:14government
00:01:14respond?
00:01:20of
00:01:27of
00:01:35"good evening, of we are news night
00:01:37in live from Broadcasting house with top takes and guests
00:01:40each week night.
00:01:45a Hello, fear and anger over
00:01:47me
00:01:47of migrants has sparked fresh unrest this time in
00:01:51Norfolk, and the row over the early release scheme is onto
00:01:55its fourth day, is Andy Burnham
00:01:58already grappling..." the same challenges as his
00:02:02multiple predecessors. questions for our guests:
00:02:06former
00:02:07of conservative minister, Paul Skully, labor MP, Rosie
00:02:11Writing, and editor of Mill Media, the local
00:02:15journalist champion Yoshi Herman, a
00:02:18of champion of of local journalism, said it twice, and Nick is
00:02:22here
00:02:24of too. Across the UK, people repeatedly
00:02:27complain. The
00:02:28of government fails to consult them. when housing migrants near their
00:02:32homes, this happened under the administrations of all
00:02:35the
00:02:36of recent seven prime ministers we can still remember. this
00:02:40is happening again under Andy Burnham and poses him immediate
00:02:43dilemma: let's
00:02:45of
00:02:45a start with the where. fetford is town in
00:02:48Norfolk, recorded in the Doomsday book, but in modern
00:02:52times it's on the
00:02:54of A-11 and famed for its
00:02:55of market and its forest. Nick, what's happening
00:02:59there? 'well paddy,
00:03:01in it's summer and we've got protests again as we had
00:03:05last year, but they are of
00:03:06a different nature, so you'll remember those protests was at the bell hotel in
00:03:10Essex, was outside hotel, what we have in
00:03:14Thatford is unrest outside
00:03:17of houses which the protesters believe are housing asylum
00:03:20seekers, that is different, now after last year's protest, the
00:03:24government pointed out outside the hotel that they had a manifesto
00:03:28commitment that they were delivering on'. there it is, end asylum
00:03:32hotels saving the
00:03:34in tax pair millions of pounds and you look at the figures
00:03:37today, the government saying it's brought down the number of hotels from
00:03:40213 in July 2024 to fewer
00:03:44of than 170 today, so the government
00:03:48has had success in that sense,
00:03:51a but you have success and there are potentially consequences
00:03:55because they talk about putting people on larger sites, military
00:03:59bases, barnam is about a mile
00:04:02in away of um from the central Thetford and moving people into
00:04:06houses, multi-occupancy houses, and there are
00:04:10consequences, interesting. Anna Turley, the home office minister is saying that
00:04:13she condemns the behavior in Thatford, but saying
00:04:16in that community concerns are central to our immigration reforms, but
00:04:20the right to protest must never cross a line into violence, she
00:04:23said. Phil Mackey is our BBC man there
00:04:27in Thetford this evening, Phil. um, it's very dark
00:04:31uh, a bit like the
00:04:32mood,
00:04:36absolutely, yeah, paddy, I don't - what you can make
00:04:38a out behind
00:04:39of me, a couple of police vans there, and two blocks of flats either
00:04:42side of a Culder sack, on this side there's a
00:04:46flat which
00:04:47of locals of believe is housing a group of asylum seekers
00:04:50of and they've been milling around outside
00:04:53of for several hours now, there was one arrest earlier on as well,
00:04:56um, but gradually the police presence has increased particular. the last few
00:05:00minutes or so there's a drone flying above as well,
00:05:04in we've occasionally hurt chance of get them out, but pretty much as nick
00:05:08outlined, and as you said in the introduction there, these protests..."
00:05:12over the last couple of nights, not just in this part of thatford but elsewhere, have
00:05:16been where apartments and flats and houses have been turned into
00:05:20HMO's, the locals say they haven't been told this was happening to house
00:05:23asylum seekers and this is against the backdrop of protests
00:05:27about plans to turn a former RAF base nearby into
00:05:31a much bigger base from asylum seekers as well, it's very similar to
00:05:35the sorts of things we've seen over the last couple of summers, I've seen them in other parts the
00:05:39country as well, I think as you can see... a little bit of
00:05:43movement around us at the moment, the suspicion is that if
00:05:46there are asylum seekers in that apartment, the police are about to try and get them
00:05:50out safely. so i've seen pictures of a police line 30 officers
00:05:53last night, i also had reports that locals, some locals
00:05:57had entered HMO's, houses in multiple application, can you
00:06:01confirm that Phil? that's only
00:06:05something that we've heard as well here on the ground, i can't confirm it because there's a
00:06:09lot of rumor and speculation, what the northf police has as well as local
00:06:13MPs, local politicians of all huges have said that they condemn the violence,
00:06:17condemn what's happened, it's the sort of thing where we have seen some
00:06:21violence, so bricks, not bricks, sorry, rocks thrown, eggs
00:06:24thrown uh, but not much much more than that so far
00:06:28and four arrests over three night isn't an awful lot,
00:06:32there is a sense of, suppose a bit of a party atmosphere if
00:06:36you can call
00:06:36it that, whole families have been here tonight, very young children,
00:06:40teenages, their parents, even grandparents as well, just milling around, maybe drinking a
00:06:44canocide, smoking their vapes, chatting about what's going on,
00:06:48talking about the perceived unfairness of what's
00:06:51happening, they feel that people are are not getting the houses that
00:06:55they're wait been waiting on the list for a long time for, and silum seekers are
00:06:59jumping ahead them, and there's a great deal of grievance about
00:07:02this here, but until now certainly the mood's been
00:07:06quite uh quite quite like I said almost festival, it's
00:07:10like a sunny evening in August and people have... come out to see what's going
00:07:13on, starting to go home, but the police have arrived in larger numbers now,
00:07:17paddy. phil, thank you very much. parts of last
00:07:20night's protests did turn violent, there were allegations that some
00:07:24protesters entered houses in multiple occupation, as I've mentioned, local
00:07:28news reporter Henry Durrend was there, we spoke to him from Thepford earlier about
00:07:32what he saw, yesterday night when the second night of protest
00:07:36sort of came to the four, I i was there first hand and I saw at
00:07:40least 20 men yeah but wearing b
00:07:43the clavas running in there up the stairs, if i can speak on the sort of feeling amongst the
00:07:47people who have involved, lot them are very defensive about their movements,
00:07:50people have said to me, especially about the invents on tuesday where five and moved out, they
00:07:54said we see this is victory, if this is what we have to do to get silum seekers
00:07:58or what we're thought to be asylum seekers out of our town then this
00:08:02is what we'll do, it's very there's a militant atmosphere, but at the same
00:08:06time lot them are peaceful, it's not it's not completely
00:08:09violent. the MP in the area is
00:08:13labor's Terry Germy who was born in
00:08:16Thepford. The new police and crime commissioner for the county is
00:08:20reforms Colin Sutton. Welcome both
00:08:24to you. Can I ask you first Colin, are you
00:08:27shocked at violence in
00:08:29Fetford? Yeah, I i think I'm a bit
00:08:33shocked with the violence. Um, and and obviously condemn the
00:08:37violence. There's every right to make
00:08:39a peaceful protest, and I understand... why the
00:08:43residents of thatford are making these protests, absolutely understand
00:08:46that uh, we, Northfork constabulry will
00:08:50facilitate peaceful process, but when the line is crossed
00:08:54and violence is offered and rocks are thrown at police officers and the police officer was bitten
00:08:57last night, then quite obviously the
00:09:01police will deal with that firmly as as they should
00:09:05do. Terry, do you recognize this is the market town you
00:09:09were born in? uh, no, to be... with you, it's
00:09:13been really disturbing over the past few days, I uh, I love Fetford,
00:09:17I was born here, it's my home, and what we've seen over the last few days
00:09:20has frankly been disgusting, and that concern is shared by a
00:09:24significant number of people that live in Fedford. were you chased
00:09:28yourself? not recently, I mean there's been ongoing
00:09:31issues uh for the past couple of months following the announcement about the
00:09:35Mod Barnam site, and personally I have come under -
00:09:39pursuit from people because of that, uh, this has been bum rumbling
00:09:43on for a good few weeks and months now and uh this is just the latest flash
00:09:47point in relation to HMOs. Colin, just to clear up, have you been
00:09:51critical the MP, because you are the PCC, so you've got to
00:09:55roll across the county. Are you critical the
00:09:57MP? I'm critical the government, and he's an
00:10:01MP who wears the colors the government. Um, I, I don't
00:10:05know what people in the government actually expect if
00:10:08you put these uh, these illegal immigrants into how. is
00:10:12in the middle of housing estates, close to schools, next door to
00:10:16people, into communities who have absolutely no say in it, then I
00:10:20think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that the people there will not be
00:10:24happy about it. and we want to make of us um, you
00:10:27know, the fact is that we're getting about a thousand a week
00:10:31these uh people coming in in small boats and we're running out
00:10:35of places to put them. Terry, let's get hear from
00:10:38Terry. I think politicians like Colin Sutten
00:10:42and others should be absolutely clear in their condemnation of what's
00:10:45happened. We've seen vulnerable people targeted, literally pulled
00:10:49from their houses. Local residents in Fepford, Fepford
00:10:53residents, particularly those of... ethnic communities living in
00:10:57fear at the moment that they are going to be misidentified as asylum
00:11:00seekers. we've seen female police officers bitten, others
00:11:04attacked. we should be clear that I am proud to be British,
00:11:08but my British values mean that I respect the rule of law, and we've not seen
00:11:12that, and as a police commissioner for Northford, Colin Sutten and others should be very
00:11:16clear about their condemnation. Colin, I condemn the
00:11:20violence, as I said earlier on, I do not condemn the protests, I think
00:11:24everybody... has the right to make a peaceful protest. I
00:11:27understand the protests that are going on in Thatford. I understand
00:11:31why the people in Thatford are cross, why they're
00:11:34scared and why they want to get onto the streets and show that
00:11:38protest. There have been protests of RF Barnam um
00:11:42virtually every Sunday since the announcement was made and they have been
00:11:46peaceful protest involving the whole community from from
00:11:49Thatford who do not want this fear of crime brought
00:11:53in amongst their community. And if I can just ask you both finally about
00:11:57the base, because Nick was telling us, and so was Phil, this is about
00:12:00houses in multiple application, operation which have been targeted,
00:12:04there's this question of a military base. Terry, are you opposed
00:12:08to the military base? There's a sort of blob on the screen there, I'm sorry, let ask
00:12:12you, Colin, are you opposed to the military base being used,
00:12:16this is a government policy to use larger spaces rather than
00:12:20hotels? I am opposed to
00:12:24it if the... 'who are living within the base are either
00:12:27bused out to local towns as we've seen with weathersfield and towns
00:12:31in essex or loud out, it's about mile and a half into the
00:12:35town center from this base, even if the home office do not bust
00:12:39them um the the these men and they are all men, unverified,
00:12:42undocumented, unvetted men will be walking into thatford,
00:12:46i'm against that, i think they should be confined within the base, then
00:12:50perhaps that's the best place to put them, and terry, are you opposed to use the
00:12:54base - other than hotels, do you think this makes sense?
00:12:58i've been really clear from the outset that i know RAF Bunumham
00:13:01very well, we've grown up with it in Fetford, there are very clear, legitimate
00:13:04reasons why that base is not suitable when it comes to
00:13:08infrastructure, sewage impact on the local environment, i've been
00:13:12working collaborative with all politicians locally to be clear to the government
00:13:16why that base is not suitable. thank you both very much indeed and
00:13:19apologies to you watching there was a small technical glitch, but we got
00:13:23through that. let's... bring in our panel, Rosie Writing, Paul
00:13:27Skully and Yoshi Herman, just to you first, Rosie,
00:13:31if I can, I'm just looking at the home office statement which Nick gave
00:13:34us, the concerns of communities are central
00:13:38to our immigration reforms, well your MP from
00:13:42your party says he doesn't want the base used, what
00:13:46what mish mash is this, yeah, and Terry knows the area
00:13:50better than I do, um, so I'm not going to dispute the
00:13:54things. that he said, and it is right that local people
00:13:58have a say any sort of changes that they they see in the
00:14:02area, but I will say the level of of violence that we've
00:14:06heard, particularly police officers being attacked in that way,
00:14:09it's just not okay, and it's not what we do as a country,
00:14:13there is a place for peaceful process, but that level of
00:14:17violence is on our streets is not okay. okay, it's a bit of swerve, but
00:14:21I'll ask you Paul, does it look to you like the concerns of
00:14:25immunity is essential to our immigration reforms has happened with any government,
00:14:29including the one that you liked? no, and it it feels like we gone full circle,
00:14:33because actually what the conservative government did uh when I was there, they
00:14:36were, they put people in bases, there was Edward Lee campaigning against RF
00:14:40Scampton in a Lincolnshire, there were people campaigning against the Manson
00:14:44airport being used for this, and which is why they thought it's too expensive, and they
00:14:48were putting people in one area, they then move to the hotels, that became even more
00:14:52expensive, and it feels now labour government are going for. circle and putting them back
00:14:56into that, you either have hotels or HMO's where you've got
00:14:59people in the community that are often single mails and these kind of
00:15:03things and it doesn't sit well with the community, or you're pushing them all in
00:15:07one place an RAF base, which is incredibly difficult to might be slightly
00:15:11further away, but as you've heard if they're being busted around or or
00:15:15that um big crowd that's difficult to manage, I mean
00:15:19it's
00:15:19a real balancing act, I mean if
00:15:20Shabana Mahmoud were here she would say what she's trying to do is reduce
00:15:24what? calls pull factors and that if it is assumed that you come
00:15:28to this country and you stay a hotel that might be attractive, so that's why the
00:15:32home office uses phrases like they're trying to not have hotels
00:15:36and have basic. accommodation, but basic accommodation
00:15:40means military bases, they're therefore very unpopular local
00:15:43communities or houses of multiple occurancy, they're very
00:15:47unpopular, so the goal now is reduce the pull factors, but there
00:15:51are consequences, sort the back, sort the backlog of asynum out and do
00:15:54what Europe are doing and actually um outsourcing this to third
00:15:57countries, and Yoshi, does it look to you like Andy
00:16:01Burnham is just another prime minister with new name, new
00:16:05glasses, the same problem? same problem, but
00:16:09funny enough, I remember when he was mayor of Greater Manchester and I was covering up in
00:16:12Manchester, he was critical the home office
00:16:16repeatedly for dispersing too many asylum seekers
00:16:19into poorer areas the north, and he said, well, it's
00:16:23wealthy areas that should take more, the home office system is not working, these contracts
00:16:27aren't working, so now the interesting thing would be, now he's in government, what is
00:16:31his plan to deal with this, because there are not many local communities around the country who are very
00:16:35accepting of having large numbers of asylum. so if you give them too much of
00:16:39local voice, many them will say no. Andy burn was a big believer in
00:16:42devolution, but are you going to devolve that kind of decision? Rosie, this is
00:16:46exactly where the rubber meets the road, your new man who ditched
00:16:50the old man has got the same problem, now he's got to listen to local
00:16:54communities, and they say we don't want
00:16:56our our area used, thanks. Yeah, of course, this problem hasn't gone away
00:17:00overnight, no, but he's worse because he's he's empowering the communities, and they're
00:17:04saying push off, but I think partly the reason.
00:17:07shabana has been kept in the home office is to make sure that we can get
00:17:11through these immigration reforms, nick mentioned the pool factor,
00:17:15but there's also making sure that we're working with other countries at like the
00:17:19one-in-one out agreement with France and on keeping the border
00:17:23secure as well, there's lots of different moving pieces here and things that we are
00:17:27addressing and reforming, we know this is issue, hear it from my
00:17:30constituent, people want to have a immigration system that is
00:17:33secure, firm and fair, and i think it's with Shabana in that job.
00:17:37"That's what we're going to see. Yoshi, you spent lifetime
00:17:41studying Andy Burnham. You are basically Manchester a
00:17:44stick. Um, is this going to sort of expose
00:17:48him? Do you think that the clash between
00:17:51Manchesterism, local solutions, and national government
00:17:54saying, here you are, you can have a thousand people who've just arrived in Kent,
00:17:58is this going to expose Andy Burnham? Well, one the briefings was that Andy
00:18:02Burnham felt that these private contracts
00:18:06that deal with..." the asylum seeker dispersal were not the right way to go, and
00:18:10it should be handled by local councils. there are a lot of local councils who
00:18:14don't want that extra thing to have to deal with, because as we've seen on the news tonight, it's a very, very
00:18:18complicated issue to deal with. i don't know if it's going to expose him, but i think one
00:18:22the big challenges for any burdom is to prove that the British
00:18:26state can get things done. there's a backlog as you mentioned Paul,
00:18:30can the government get through it. in Manchester, the whole success the city has been
00:18:33based on getting through the work and getting things done, getting things moving. and that
00:18:37you're absolutely right and but the thing is that you know devolution, I'm a big fan of devolution
00:18:41myself, but when you're talking about these kind of issues, we talk about my street,
00:18:45my
00:18:45my airbase, everybody sits there and say yes we should have more
00:18:49disbursal in diff and every other area apart from mine, and that's where it
00:18:53becomes really difficult, and this is I'm not pretending this is easy
00:18:57solution, buse you you you fluffed it, your party fluffed it, you said stop the
00:19:00vote, Rishi Sunak said I should never have said stop, he had more boats than
00:19:04when he when he started and when he said that bit, 'he was right,
00:19:08the first absolutely, I'm not going to say it's perfect, I mean it's uh, I'm no longer there
00:19:12clearly, and uh, I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'm just wondering the
00:19:16viewer, the viewer has had every prime minister, we haven't got any prime minister, which is why every
00:19:20viewer and the protesters are really angry, what we've got to make
00:19:23sure that we don't stray into the violence, and I equally, as I think we all do,
00:19:27condemn the violence, but we got to make sure we don't stray into
00:19:31that populist area, protest, have your say, but we
00:19:35as as well the politicians here'. to actually come up with usable
00:19:39solutions? oh yeah, and I do think partly the reason that we're in this
00:19:43place is because that backlog was so big, I mean under the last government there was
00:19:47a hotel in the town um next to Kettering, that's not there
00:19:50anymore, we have started to process those claims, we have not
00:19:54putting our head in the sand when it comes to this issue, we've acknowledged from
00:19:58the very beginning since walking in in 2024 that this is something that we want to
00:20:02address, and also Nick, as we came into the studio tonight, you said
00:20:05Paddy, there's a bit of news. tickling from the conservative party
00:20:09sort of trying to make new policy tonight? yes, announcement they're going to do
00:20:13tomorrow that we've learned about in the last hour or so, which looks pretty significant. here's the
00:20:17headline: conservative conservatives to end social
00:20:21housing for foreign nationals, so they will end the current
00:20:24social housing tendencies for non- EU foreign nationals and
00:20:28end all new social housing tendencies for foreign
00:20:31national. they're saying there's around about 230,000
00:20:35households currently in social house. that will become
00:20:38ineligible under this policy, freeing homes for British families as
00:20:42the tenencies turn over. here's how it would work, any person
00:20:46with with or without children who is not a UK Irish
00:20:50or EU citizen would lose their entitlement
00:20:54outright, for all future new social housing
00:20:57tenancies, only UK nationals would be eligible, all
00:21:01other nationalities, including EU citizens, would be
00:21:04ineligible for social housing, and this is what
00:21:08they're summing up the policy, saying social housing is the most valuable thing the British
00:21:12state has to give, it is heavily subsidized, it's desperately
00:21:15scarce, and once tendency is granted it can last a lifetime.
00:21:19your... nodding, do you see what kemy ben looks up to? yeah, I think it's a really interesting policy, I
00:21:23mean you got devil's always in the details in these and what happens to the people that are
00:21:27displaced if they're losing their entitlement, are they get being evicted
00:21:30or devil, absolutely, so this
00:21:34is the first time I'm seeing it, but what is interesting, we know there is a shortage of
00:21:37supply in general housing, but there's absolutely scarcity of
00:21:41supply in social housing, so actually making sure that social housing is using as
00:21:45effectives as possible is an interesting proposal, yeah obviously just
00:21:48hearing of this and... shockingly, I agree with the statement
00:21:52there in the value of social housing, and that is why we need to build
00:21:56more social housing. I think this policy, it
00:22:00might grab headlines for the conservative party, but it is not
00:22:04addressing the root cause that just is not enough social housing
00:22:08in this country, partly because their legacy, and that's why I've
00:22:12been so pleased to see Andy talk about addressing the housing crisis
00:22:15and building social housing, if we just think the news night viewer exhausted clutching
00:22:19the... hip flask, yoshi, immigration was part the Brexit
00:22:23referendum 10 years ago,
00:22:27and we still seeing new towns with unusual levels
00:22:31of violence. Do we rightly think that the system, whoever
00:22:35runs it, the system has let down the
00:22:38viewer? Yeah, I think so, and it's one of those issues where I think
00:22:42a lot of people look at it and think, if the state can't fix this,
00:22:46which feels like a relatively basic thing to fix, then then what are they doing?
00:22:50sort of thing, they can't do pot holes either, so they actually the argument is
00:22:54that that that the pro the state can't do anything, yeah, exactly, and I think that's
00:22:57what Andy Burnham has to show is that he can get things going. I mean, on the
00:23:01social housing one, it's interesting to see the conservatives in a sense, Andy Buurnam's on
00:23:05holiday and the conservatives are trying to grab social housing as one their
00:23:08issues, when really it was a burnum issue, wasn't it? he said we're going to do the
00:23:12biggest program of councer house building since the second world war, and as soon as he goes
00:23:16away, the conservatives are in and grabbing that issue, I think it's fascinated.
00:23:20I think something I would I would observe though, when Andy Burnam was the mayor of Greater
00:23:24Manchester, we were not building lot of social housing, the vast majority of
00:23:28housing that was going out was private housing, we became known as the neoliberal city, and
00:23:32now Andy Burnam says he's anti-neoliberalism and he's all about social housing, so I think
00:23:36it's just going to be interesting to see is the Andy Burnham that we've seen
00:23:39recently, the one that hates neoliberalism, the one that's all in favor of
00:23:43building an enormous number of council houses, is that really the version we're going to get
00:23:47in government or is it he going to rule the... roughly like you
00:23:50ruled Manchester a much more sort of pragmatic center ground kind of way. Well, there's a
00:23:54bit of a through line to the last topic that I'd like everyone to
00:23:58comment on, which is the row that is growing over the early release of
00:24:02prisoners, emergency measure first introduced to stop the
00:24:06total collapse the criminal justice system. No one wants that,
00:24:10but the issue is who to release and when. The government's planning to release
00:24:14around 500 offenders in England, Wales early an
00:24:17effort to make space in overcrowded jail. Andy Burnham's now said he wants
00:24:21an urgent review to identify any grooming gam
00:24:25members who may be freed under his watch. Nick, it's
00:24:29an interesting reminder that grooming gang jailed
00:24:33people were jailed under different part the law, well somewhere. So Andy
00:24:36Burnham, as we know when he became prime minister, make clear he was very uncomfortable about the early
00:24:40release scheme. He did review and early this week he announced that
00:24:44number of people on various fences uh would be excluded from the
00:24:48scheme. One the groups were people. convicted of grooming gang
00:24:51offenses, anyone who was convicted before the
00:24:542003 sexual offenses act under this, was convicted under
00:24:581956 sexual offenses act, and that was indecent to
00:25:02saw, that is not captured by the exclusion from
00:25:06the early release scheme, that was revealed by the Times last night, they
00:25:10found number of examples, Kenny Vedenock wrote to the prime minister,
00:25:14prime minister said Downing Street said today, there is an urgent review looking into
00:25:17this, the aim is to ensure... that these people
00:25:21would be excluded from the early release scheme, but they have to
00:25:25sort of take it in stages, so stage one is there is
00:25:28review, the second stage is to identify the
00:25:32offenders, and the third stage, if it's deemed appropriate,
00:25:36is to exclude these offenders from the early release
00:25:40scheme. Rosie, you must be very uncomfortable to be part the
00:25:43party that is releasing all these people, what I would
00:25:47be uncomfortable is if I thought that... that
00:25:50tomorrow or next week someone in Kettering would be
00:25:54arrested for serious crime and they weren't convicted because there wasn't
00:25:58space enough do you pin that on the tour yes I do, but I'm not
00:26:01here
00:26:02to I... to go over the conservative, well I'm asking you to, that
00:26:05that he's representing the party that ran the country, that had the
00:26:09prisons, yeah, obviously no one can blame you for having full prison, yeah,
00:26:13and you know it's deeply frustrating that the conservatives had on their manifesto that they were going
00:26:17to build all these prison places and they never did it, and that is why we're in, that's
00:26:21in why the
00:26:22we're places, they increase prison places, what they didn't do is build prisons, I mean and
00:26:26whether there's all manner of debate about that, because we're talking about
00:26:30asylum seekers, who wants a prison next to them so... "it takes forever to do
00:26:33that, and we just didn't do that. Yoshi, it seems like it's taken Andy Burnham
00:26:37four days to get a grip on what the actual policy
00:26:41he he had it means, is it an, is it his first omni shambles?
00:26:45It's not an omni shambles and I think he's politically been more deft than his
00:26:49predecessor in saying we're going to do something and we're going to make some kind of change. The
00:26:52question for me would be, given that this was such a well-known problem, this has been coming
00:26:56down the track for months, did Andy Burnham and his team have a
00:27:00plan, did they actually have..." policy, well, don't tell me no,
00:27:04because that was Kier Starmer's problem, he did, he spent years and didn't have a plan, the slight
00:27:08unraveling the detail might suggest that they didn't
00:27:11have a plan ready to go, and now the question is, do they
00:27:15have a plan for these other policy areas that they want to legislate in? so there you are,
00:27:19it's all very well changing your prime minister, but it's the same problem we
00:27:23saw, we was always going to run into this, he's not the
00:27:26Messiah, look, the challenges the country faces are difficult, and
00:27:30you're right, the challenges haven't changed overnight. because we've changed prime minister, but
00:27:34I do think that Andy Burnham is taking people with him on that
00:27:38journey, he's communicating with people a way that is explaining why we're
00:27:41making the decisions we're making, and I think that's what the public want right
00:27:45now. To be fair to Andy Burnham, his premiership happened really
00:27:49quickly, and he was in the access talks, him, Lou Hague, James Pernell, his chief of
00:27:53staff from the cabinet secretary in these access talks, they couldn't do
00:27:56everything in his favor, to criticize Andy Burnham, he
00:28:00wouldn't tell the cabinet secretary who his new... cabinet ministers were going to
00:28:03be, so that meant that Alex Norris who's the new law
00:28:06chancellor, did not sit down with the permanent secretary the Ministry of Justice and
00:28:10saying can we work this through? can I ask you all, because it seems to
00:28:14me there's a through line listening to you all, which is so many these problems were
00:28:18inherited, is Andy Burnham the prime minister to
00:28:22sell a version of solution to the public? Paul, yeah, in terms
00:28:26of sales, yeah, absolutely, it reminds me of when Boris came out and mayor of London
00:28:30and but the but the scrutiny is going to get for. is very very different
00:28:34so salesman yes and i
00:28:35like the optimism, but let's see the um let's see the
00:28:38substance. yes, i don't just think he is a person to sell the
00:28:42change the country needs to the public, i think he's a person to actually
00:28:46change the country so people really really feel it and i know that's what people are
00:28:50crying out for. yeah, look, he's very good at
00:28:53communicating story and making things part of a wider story
00:28:57that
00:28:57that that reveals his his values and the values he wants in the country. i think he'll be really good
00:29:01at that. "I think what we're talking about tonight on various issues is he is
00:29:05inheriting really, really difficult things, they are much more complicated things
00:29:09than he ever had as mayor of Greater Manchester, and the country will ultimately care, as Rosie
00:29:13said, can he fix the problems? So I mean it's awful to say to you who's
00:29:17made so much to try and make Manchester coverage better and do everything,
00:29:20but basically what you're telling us is Manchester's Manchester, it's now
00:29:24he's he's meeting national problems, prisons,
00:29:28immigration, and it's not the same as running a bus.
00:29:31Well, well..." "he did very well with the buses and I think Andy Burnan was on the whole
00:29:35very successful mayor of Great Manchester, but I think running any city region
00:29:39is totally different kettle of fish from running the country, and within
00:29:43a few days of becoming prime minister, if he wasn't already aware of that, he's obviously very
00:29:47aware of it now. Can I just do like he has been in the cabinet before, and there's
00:29:51things like reforming social care, which he started as health and social care
00:29:54secretary and has picked up almost straight away as prime minister, so I I
00:29:58don't, I don't, thank you, I'm glad you got that in, I hope you something said. you
00:30:02wanted tonight, it's been lovely to meet you, here's the papers a quick scamper, the
00:30:06telegraph, tories to end social housing for foreigners,
00:30:10uh, nick what's already done that uh, the daily express, we're failing
00:30:13sex scgan victims once again, says the express, the guardian,
00:30:17cambridge unleash to grotesque racism with arday appointment, says
00:30:21the paper in quotes and the sun, i the web,
00:30:25tom and zender tie the not again,
00:30:29do contact us and improve us, here are - contact
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