Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:00get the latest news wherever you
00:00:01you are. Business on BBC News. Make
00:00:05Make the connection. MUSIC
00:00:13MUSIC
00:00:22This is BBC News your headlines. More scrutiny on Fifa
00:00:25Fifa president Gianni Infantino as as allegations emerge in the Daily
00:00:28Daily Telegraph that a woman he had had an alleged
00:00:35He had an alleged relationship with was given a six figure severance severance payment while he was general
00:00:38general secretary of Uefa. Fifa says says the story is categorically untrue. untrue. At least three people, including
00:00:41including a child, have been killed killed in overnight Russian attacks
00:00:45attacks near the Ukrainian capital
00:00:47capital Kyiv, in an exclusive interview interview with BBC Newsnight, Hunter
00:00:51Hunter Biden says his pardon was
00:00:52was not good for America or his father's
00:00:56father's legacy and two Metropolitan Metropolitan Police officers are
00:00:59are being investigated by a watchdog watchdog over alleged failures in
00:01:02in their handling of a serial sex
00:01:05sex offender who murdered two women. women. Those are the latest headlines
00:01:08headlines from BBC News. I'm Luxmy
00:01:12Luxmy Gopal. Global business news
00:01:20news from the boardroom or grassroots grassroots BBC News cuts through
00:01:23through the jargon to add colour, colour, depth and context with live
00:01:27live reaction from Wall Street and and Asia studio interviews with top
00:01:30top CEOs and the latest innovations
00:01:33innovations in technology. Talking
00:01:35Talking Business. Hello and welcome. To Talking Business weekly.
00:01:38weekly. Let's take a look at what's
00:01:40what's on the show. Can oil really really get Venezuela's economy back
00:01:44back on track? It's got the world's world's biggest reserves, so can
00:01:48can it take advantage as events in in the Middle East redraw the global
00:01:51global energy map? Venezuela is reeling
00:01:54reeling from the damage of deadly deadly double earthquakes, a mountain
00:01:57mountain of debt and years of economic economic mismanagement. So can the
00:02:01the interim president turn the economy
00:02:03economy around and reinvent the country's country's future? Well, I'm going
00:02:07going to be discussing all of this this with these two. This former
00:02:10former head of Venezuela's central central bank will explain how the the country got into such a mess
00:02:14mess and why it can be hopeful for
00:02:16for the future. And the head of Venezuela's Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce tells
00:02:20tells us what changes his members members want as they seek to provide
00:02:23provide the country the growth it
00:02:24it needs. Plus, with oil key to Venezuela's Venezuela's future, this seasoned
00:02:28seasoned oil executive tells me why why his company wants to invest billions
00:02:32billions in bringing it up to speed
00:02:34speed despite the risks and instability.
00:02:40instability. Wherever you're joining joining me from, welcome to the show.
00:02:43show. The world's biggest ever debt debt restructuring and a huge repair
00:02:46repair bill from two devastating devastating earthquakes hardly sounds
00:02:49sounds like a recipe for economic economic success. But if Venezuela
00:02:53Venezuela can overcome them, it could could hold the fate of the global
00:02:56global economy in its hands. At the the start of this year, its president,
00:03:00president, Nicolas Maduro, was captured captured by the United States in
00:03:03in a daring raid that gave it effective effective control of a country that
00:03:06that holds the world's largest proven proven oil reserves, but whose economy
00:03:10economy has been struggling for years.
00:03:12years. They could be key to interim interim President Delcy Rodriguez
00:03:15Rodriguez efforts to turn the country country and its economy around. This
00:03:18This graph lays out the scale of
00:03:20of decline since the economy peaked
00:03:23peaked in 2012. It's now worth just just over a quarter of what it was
00:03:26was then, thanks to years of mismanagement, mismanagement, which has led to a
00:03:29a surge in poverty and spiralling spiralling inflation. With that decline
00:03:33decline has come a desperate mountain
00:03:35mountain of debt. It could be as
00:03:38as high as $240 billion, according according to one recent calculation,
00:03:42calculation, putting Venezuela on on course for the biggest debt restructuring
00:03:46restructuring in history, something something the government says is
00:03:48is imminent. But it's a government
00:03:50government also focused on major
00:03:53major rebuilding $37 billion is the the estimated cost for damage to
00:03:56to buildings and infrastructure alone alone from June's earthquakes, which
00:03:59which claimed thousands of lives. lives. But it's a country that has
00:04:03has around 300 billion barrels of of oil sitting in the ground. The
00:04:07The biggest proven reserves of any any country in the world, which account
00:04:10account for about a fifth of the
00:04:11the world's total reserves. However, However, corruption and mismanagement
00:04:15mismanagement mean that oil production production is a long way from its
00:04:19its 1970s heyday. It has picked up up since the change of president,
00:04:22president, which is just as well well because it has the potential
00:04:25potential to generate much needed needed cash. And you just have to
00:04:28to look at events in the Middle East
00:04:30East to see why that could be significant. significant. Before the Iran war
00:04:33war effectively closed, the Strait Strait of Hormuz, about 20% of the
00:04:36the world's oil and gas came through through the waterway. The threat
00:04:40threat to ships means that has been
00:04:43been drastically reduced and oil oil prices have ebbed and flowed
00:04:46flowed with every development in in the conflict, higher oil prices
00:04:50prices mean higher inflation and and higher interest rates around
00:04:53around the world and that normally normally slows economic growth. And
00:04:57And given the performance of the the US economy is so important to
00:05:01to President Trump, it's little surprise surprise he sees oil as important
00:05:04important to keeping the world's world's biggest economy ahead of
00:05:07of its biggest rival. As he pointed pointed out on a recent visit to
00:05:11to a car factory. We have a thousand
00:05:14thousand year supply of gasoline.
00:05:17gasoline. China doesn't. China doesn't. doesn't. We have a thousand years.
00:05:20years. We have more gasoline. We
00:05:22We have more oil. Now, when you add
00:05:24add Venezuela to it, we really have
00:05:27have more oil. One day and Venezuela's
00:05:31Venezuela's been great. They've been been doing a great job. We're working
00:05:33working with them to make millions millions and millions of barrels
00:05:37barrels of oil, but they're doing doing well and we're doing well.
00:05:39well. One day. You know, a lot of of people are against that war. We
00:05:43We don't want the vintage. Why are are you doing what you did after
00:05:46after we won in about 48 minutes,
00:05:50minutes, approximately. They said, said, oh, that was a good move. Well, Well, the same thing is happening
00:05:53happening in Iran. People just don't don't see it. But getting that oil
00:05:56oil out of the ground so it can be
00:05:59be sold won't be quick or easy, especially especially for a government that
00:06:01that has also tried to tackle the the aftermath of earthquakes that
00:06:04that left thousands of people dead
00:06:06dead and many more homeless. In parallel
00:06:11parallel with the emergency response, response, we continue to make progress progress on an orderly plan for the
00:06:15the sovereign debt restructuring. restructuring. In recent weeks, we've
00:06:18we've held intensive technical exchanges exchanges with our partners and with
00:06:21with international financial institutions. institutions. We're also continuing
00:06:24continuing to refine the macroeconomic macroeconomic framework and debt
00:06:28debt sustainability analysis to include
00:06:30include the economic impact of the the earthquakes. We expect to publish
00:06:34publish these documents in the coming coming weeks. So whilst the government
00:06:38government of interim President Delcy Delcy Rodriguez gets on with sorting
00:06:41sorting out years of financial mess, mess, millions of people are still
00:06:44still struggling to get by on a daily daily basis. Venezuela was once a
00:06:48a wealthy country thanks to its oil,
00:06:50oil, but now one respected study
00:06:53study says 68.5% of its 28.5 million
00:06:56million people live in poverty. So
00:06:58So to find out how it got into such such a mess, I've been speaking to
00:07:01to a respected former president of
00:07:03of Venezuela's central bank who resigned resigned because politicians tried
00:07:06tried to interfere with its independence.
00:07:09independence. She now advises companies companies and global financial institutions
00:07:13institutions on Venezuela in her her roles with sentences financiera
00:07:16financiera and global source partners.
00:07:19partners. Ruth Krivoy. Welcome to to Talking Business. Let's start
00:07:22start off by talking about what life
00:07:24life is like for ordinary Venezuelans Venezuelans because the economy has
00:07:28has been under some pressure for
00:07:29for some time now. The economy has
00:07:32has been under pressure for almost
00:07:36almost 30 years where along the line,
00:07:41line, institutions were severely
00:07:42severely eroded. The rule of law
00:07:45law was destroyed. Property was expropriated
00:07:49expropriated without compensation. compensation. Fiscal policy dominated
00:07:53dominated monetary policy. Inflation
00:07:55Inflation started going up and growth
00:07:58growth started dropping along the
00:07:59the way. Oil production fell from
00:08:03from a 3 million barrels a day threshold
00:08:07threshold to about 1.2 million barrels
00:08:08barrels a day. Along the way, we
00:08:12we have had hyperinflation and we
00:08:14we are now at a stage of high inflation
00:08:18inflation between the 400 and 500%
00:08:20500% per year. And as you can imagine,
00:08:23imagine, an economy with no growth,
00:08:26growth, no lending, high inflation.
00:08:29inflation. And on top of that, the
00:08:30the two earthquakes we had on June
00:08:34June 24th paints a dire picture.
00:08:36picture. So people find it difficult
00:08:38difficult to get along in this reality.
00:08:41reality. Do you think that this optimism
00:08:44optimism that is shared about the
00:08:46the country's energy industry, for
00:08:48for example, like oil, and is that
00:08:52that something that is a realistic realistic solution to the economic
00:08:54economic woes that you've just described.
00:08:56described. The recovery of the oil
00:08:59oil industry is indispensable. But
00:09:01But in itself it is not enough because
00:09:07because a mono dependent economy
00:09:09economy on oil is highly vulnerable
00:09:12vulnerable to shocks. Getting the the oil industry off the ground is
00:09:15is needed because that's the only only thing we have in the short-term.
00:09:19short-term. But Venezuela needs to
00:09:22to diversify its economy. Otherwise
00:09:25Otherwise we are stuck in a bad place.
00:09:27place. The legal framework has been
00:09:31been reformed, but the perception perception is that we will have to
00:09:33to go through a new reform by the
00:09:35the end of next year if we want production
00:09:38production to move beyond, beyond
00:09:41beyond 1.5 million barrels a day, day, companies are interested in
00:09:45in Venezuela. Many Amos. But so far
00:09:49far not enough real money coming
00:09:51coming in. That means that oil production
00:09:55production is slow and non-oil activities
00:09:57activities are slow, and the quality
00:09:59quality of life is not good. So the
00:10:02the government has around $240 billion
00:10:05billion worth of debt. Is it ever ever going to be able to repay that
00:10:08that back? A short answer is no.
00:10:10no. We have to go through a restructuring.
00:10:15restructuring. We have been in default
00:10:17default since 2017. The amount surprisingly
00:10:23surprisingly rose from the 150 to
00:10:25to 170 billion range to 242 weeks
00:10:28weeks ago, and that is a challenge
00:10:31challenge to understand. And we are
00:10:34are on the verge of a foreign debt
00:10:36debt restructuring process that will will be critical for Venezuela's
00:10:40Venezuela's future. And basically
00:10:42basically it needs to be and to be
00:10:45be perceived as legitimate and fair.
00:10:48fair. And the concern is that there
00:10:52there is an apparently big desire
00:10:54desire to move ahead quickly. But
00:10:57But in my view, it's not something something that you can fix quickly
00:11:00quickly because you have to negotiate negotiate with a large diversity
00:11:04diversity of predators. You have
00:11:06have to qualify which debt is legitimate
00:11:09legitimate and you need the IMF in in the picture. One more thing to
00:11:12to bear in mind is that China and
00:11:15and Russia are important creditors,
00:11:17creditors, and the debt to them needs
00:11:21needs to be restructured as well. well. And in terms of the diversification
00:11:25diversification that you alluded alluded to earlier about the economy,
00:11:29economy, not just relying on oil
00:11:31oil and energy, how is that going going to happen? How are they going
00:11:34going to open up other industries?
00:11:37industries? It has to be a friendlier
00:11:40friendlier framework for non-oil
00:11:41non-oil activities. Formal non-oil
00:11:45non-oil activities, the formal sector
00:11:47sector is overburdened by regulations,
00:11:50regulations, taxes, etc and we do
00:11:52do have the natural resources, the
00:11:56the geographical location, the climate,
00:11:59climate, the people. We have smart
00:12:01smart and hard working people who
00:12:03who need to be trained and educated
00:12:06educated for the market. And we have
00:12:09have 8 million Venezuelans living
00:12:10living abroad who have had the opportunity
00:12:14opportunity to live in a challenging
00:12:18challenging modern, forward looking
00:12:20looking context and are connected connected emotionally to the country
00:12:23country and are ready to help. And
00:12:25And it also sounds very complicated. complicated. But when you have a
00:12:29a development plan and you can identify
00:12:32identify the sectors that can lead
00:12:35lead to short-term gains, so to say
00:12:37say the low hanging fruit, this can
00:12:40can be done in a couple of years. years. Ruth Krivoy. Thank you. Thank
00:12:44Thank you. So that's the background background to Venezuela's economy.
00:12:47economy. And the interim president president has been talking of the
00:12:51the need to make the economy less less reliant on oil and a better
00:12:54better environment for private businesses businesses to thrive in and deliver
00:12:57deliver the growth the country needs. needs. So I've been catching up with
00:13:00with the President of Venezuela's
00:13:01Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce and
00:13:05and Industry, Felipe Capozzolo, welcome welcome to Talking Business. You've
00:13:08You've had a new president in the
00:13:11the last few months. Has that seen
00:13:13seen a shift in the way business business is done in Venezuela? Clearly
00:13:17Clearly you've got your issues with with inflation. Historically, there's
00:13:21there's been reports of corruption
00:13:23corruption and also sort of the way
00:13:26way business is done in Venezuela
00:13:28Venezuela is reportedly not as straightforward straightforward as it should be.
00:13:31be. Have you seen a shift in sentiment sentiment since you've had a new
00:13:34new president? Well, as you probably
00:13:36probably know, our economy and our
00:13:40our performance and productivity
00:13:41productivity is limited by some problems
00:13:46problems regarding electricity. Our Our economy is very restricted regarding
00:13:49regarding the credit capacity. We
00:13:52We have a lot of taxes. Maybe we
00:13:55we are the country with more taxes
00:13:57taxes in the region for operating
00:14:01operating businesses. But I have
00:14:03have to say that also since January
00:14:06January there have been taking place place some changes regarding legal
00:14:09legal frame. So we have a new hydrocarbon
00:14:12hydrocarbon law. We have a new mining
00:14:14mining law. We're working on a socio
00:14:18socio economic rights law that maybe
00:14:21maybe can give confidence for businesses businesses in, in the next months.
00:14:25months. We are trying to send a message
00:14:29message to the world saying in Venezuela
00:14:32Venezuela things are changing. And
00:14:35And Felipe, the country is recovering recovering from those devastating
00:14:39devastating earthquakes that we saw
00:14:40saw quite recently. How are the private
00:14:44private sector getting involved with with the recovery? Because lots of
00:14:47of people are still sleeping in tents. tents. Clearly businesses have been
00:14:50been impacted as well. What's the the private sector's role in the
00:14:54the recovery building back? We cannot
00:14:56cannot minimise the effects of the
00:14:59the earthquake certainly has been
00:15:01been a very tragic moment. Maybe
00:15:06Maybe it's a very focused in a specific
00:15:09specific region of our country and
00:15:11and it will affect in the next month
00:15:14month the decisions of investment
00:15:16investment and maybe the decision
00:15:20decision of that can make our economy
00:15:21economy growing. But I also have
00:15:24have to say that we are working in
00:15:29in a recovering path and in, in the
00:15:32the next years, Venezuela will recover
00:15:35recover with the strength of the the oil company or the oil sector.
00:15:39sector. For sure. We would like to
00:15:43to diversify our economy. But nowadays
00:15:46nowadays the oil is the main force
00:15:48force to make our economy grow. But
00:15:54But Venezuelans are pretty aware
00:15:55aware that our future is not only
00:15:58only built on energy energy industry
00:16:01industry but on, on maybe on the
00:16:03the capacity of our people to produce produce and create solutions for
00:16:07for the future. And Felipe, what's what's the working environment for
00:16:11for businesses like and what can can the government do to help that
00:16:14that environment along? There's a
00:16:16a lot a lot of work to do for sure.
00:16:19sure. We are having a good communication.
00:16:22communication. So we need new investments. investments. We need more credit.
00:16:25credit. You can reach this only with
00:16:28with a new investments. We becoming
00:16:30becoming an investment friendly country. country. How are you finding taxes
00:16:33taxes at the moment? What are your your members telling you? Well a
00:16:37a Venezuela have the higher taxes
00:16:39taxes in the region. So the taxes
00:16:43taxes and the energy environment environment has to push our enterprises,
00:16:46enterprises, our businesses to growth
00:16:49growth and not maybe not limit our
00:16:52our growth that like has been in
00:16:55in the recent years. You spoke about
00:16:57about diversifying the business offering offering that Venezuela has. Oil
00:17:01Oil is clearly a big component of
00:17:03of that. But what other sectors has
00:17:07has Venezuela got to offer and how how is that going to come about?
00:17:10about? Do you think? Yes, that's
00:17:12that's a very important question
00:17:16question because we have a we have
00:17:18have a country, widely open to receive
00:17:21receive investments in the agriculture agriculture sector, in the food industry
00:17:25industry sector. Venezuela is not
00:17:27not only oil, we have plenty of spaces
00:17:30spaces and plenty of lands in order
00:17:33order to be exploited to grow the
00:17:36the business and grow our economy.
00:17:39economy. So there's plenty of opportunities
00:17:42opportunities to explore here in in Venezuela. And there's a private
00:17:46private sector friendly open to receive
00:17:48receive this investment to grow and
00:17:51and diversify economy and make of
00:17:53of the employment, the main tool
00:17:56tool to create a new economy made
00:18:00made mainly for the people. Nowadays
00:18:02Nowadays there's no risk to come
00:18:04come to Venezuela and invest. Maybe
00:18:06Maybe the main risk would be being
00:18:09being late to this investment. Felipe Felipe Capozzolo thank you very much.
00:18:13much. Thank you. Coming up after
00:18:15after the break, the dollars in drilling drilling the boss of one oil company
00:18:18company tells me how he's hoping
00:18:20hoping to revive Venezuela's oil
00:18:23oil industry.
00:19:25he was their friend. Paul's heart-wrenching heart-wrenching stuff that made me
00:19:27me feel sick. The big cases. Funeral
00:19:30Funeral Home horror watch on BBC
00:19:33BBC News. MUSIC
00:19:42MUSIC Welcome Welcome back. This is Talking Business
00:19:44Business weekly with me Vishala Sri-Pathma.
00:19:46Sri-Pathma. This week we're looking looking at Venezuela's economy and
00:19:49and how it can get back on track track after years of mismanagement.
00:19:53mismanagement. The South American American country is home to the world's
00:19:56world's largest oil reserves, but but production is a long way from
00:19:59from where it could be. If the black black gold is really going to make
00:20:02make the country wealthy again, it's it's going to need help from foreign
00:20:05foreign investors. The world's biggest biggest oil companies are sizing
00:20:08sizing up how much they want to get get involved, but smaller investors
00:20:11investors are more willing to take take on the risks. I've been speaking
00:20:15speaking to the founder of one Amos Amos Global Energy, which is aiming
00:20:18aiming to invest billions in Venezuela Venezuela and draw on his intimate
00:20:22intimate knowledge of the country country from his decades running running the operations of US oil
00:20:26oil giant Chevron in Latin America.
00:20:29America. Ali Moshiri. Welcome to to Talking Business. Do you think
00:20:33think oil really is going to save
00:20:35save Venezuela's economy? Definitely, Definitely, yeah. You know, if you
00:20:39you look at Venezuela. Venezuela
00:20:41Venezuela got the largest resource.
00:20:44resource. It's about 300 billion
00:20:47billion barrels of light heavy and and extra heavy oil. And if you look
00:20:50look at it in the past, the economy
00:20:54economy of Venezuela has been driven driven by the oil sector. The GDP
00:20:58GDP of Venezuela was close to $400
00:21:02$400 billion in 2010, when oil prices prices were somewhere around $80
00:21:05$80 and they were producing a little
00:21:07little bit over 2.5 million barrels. barrels. Definitely the silver bullet
00:21:11bullet for recovery of the economy economy of Venezuela. It comes from
00:21:14from the oil sector. It has been been in the past. It's going to be
00:21:18be in the future. And I think that's that's going to be the source that
00:21:22that can jumpstart the economy. So
00:21:24So currently Venezuela produces around
00:21:27around 1.2 million barrels a day
00:21:28day of oil in its hay. It produced
00:21:31produced around 3.7. So clearly there there is some ground to make up there.
00:21:35there. How can it get its infrastructure infrastructure up to speed? And also
00:21:38also how much is it going to cost?
00:21:41cost? There's got to be incremental
00:21:43incremental production increase. increase. What we have estimated
00:21:46estimated to get the production to to 1.5 million barrels probably you
00:21:50you need somewhere between to 3 to to $4 billion trying to increase
00:21:54increase the production from one
00:21:56one and a half to 2.5 million barrels
00:21:58barrels a day. You need significant
00:22:00significant amount of investment, investment, close to $50 billion.
00:22:03billion. Does the oil sector in 1.5
00:22:071.5 million barrels production can can generate that kind of revenue
00:22:11revenue and capital to be able to to fund to increase the production?
00:22:14production? The answer to that is
00:22:16is yes. And at Amos you're raising
00:22:19raising or spending $2 billion on
00:22:22on oil production. Is that enough, enough, do you think? You know, we
00:22:26we are one of the players in this
00:22:29this whole process. We are hoping hoping others will join. There are
00:22:32are a lot of companies right now. now. They are in discussion with
00:22:35with the government of Venezuela.
00:22:37Venezuela. They are trying to basically
00:22:39basically assess returning to Venezuela. Venezuela. One of the things our
00:22:43our audience could understand Venezuela
00:22:45Venezuela has been absent from the
00:22:47the market. There is a learning process
00:22:50process for companies about Venezuela. Venezuela. It's a safe country. You
00:22:54You can do business. We want to be be the one that kind of showcase
00:22:58showcase that this possibility exists exists in Venezuela. Say recent figures
00:23:01figures would suggest that lots of of people in Venezuela are living
00:23:04living in poverty. And we've just
00:23:08just recently had two devastating devastating earthquakes in Venezuela
00:23:11Venezuela as well. So clearly the the country and the government are
00:23:14are in need of money and money quickly.
00:23:18quickly. How long till they see the the benefits of this? Is it just
00:23:21just big business or small business business even that will benefit from
00:23:25from the oil exploration? You've
00:23:27You've got to look at this whole
00:23:29whole picture. Venezuela economy
00:23:33economy in 2010 was $400 billion.
00:23:37billion. GDP in 2025 was only 100.
00:23:40100. OK. Therefore, we are dealing
00:23:42dealing with the economic crisis
00:23:46crisis pre January 3rd and US administration
00:23:49administration is working very hard
00:23:51hard trying to be able to help the
00:23:54the economy of the country. But you've you've got to be in the transparent
00:23:57transparent and organised way. Unfortunate
00:24:00Unfortunate event of earthquake is is said delay in this process. But
00:24:04But I think with the help of the
00:24:06the US government, I think the recovery
00:24:08recovery is going to be faster now.
00:24:10now. The impact on the average person
00:24:13person on the street of Venezuela
00:24:15Venezuela today may not have significantly
00:24:18significantly changed, but I think think is in the right trajectory
00:24:21trajectory to improve significantly. significantly. Given there's a shift
00:24:24shift in the wider environment towards
00:24:26towards renewables and clean energy,
00:24:28energy, is there a little bit of
00:24:31of pressure on the Venezuelan oil oil industry to get things running
00:24:35running up quickly? Because the sort sort of mood music could change quite
00:24:38quite quickly? I think we all recognise
00:24:42recognise with the two conflict that
00:24:44that happened Russia, Ukraine and
00:24:46and now Middle East our dependency
00:24:48dependency to the oil and gas is
00:24:50is going to stay there for decades.
00:24:53decades. Even if you assume that
00:24:55that we completely transform into
00:24:59into the energy alternative energy, energy, we still need 40 million
00:25:02million barrels a day production
00:25:05production just for the other activities activities such as manufacturing
00:25:08manufacturing of plastic and so forth.
00:25:10forth. And Venezuela is on top of
00:25:13of the list as a country because
00:25:15because they got a multiple class
00:25:17class of oil, light oil, heavy oil
00:25:19oil and extra heavy oil. And the
00:25:22the refineries really lock this combination. combination. And I think Venezuela
00:25:25Venezuela would be on the number
00:25:27number one country that would provide provide that resource. Ali Moshiri
00:25:30Moshiri thank you for joining us us on Talking Business. Well, thank
00:25:34thank you very much. That's all for for this week. You can keep up with
00:25:36with all the latest on the global global economy on the BBC News website
00:25:40website and smartphone app. And don't don't forget you can get in touch
00:25:43touch with me on my socials. I'm
00:25:46I'm at BBC, SB.
00:29:25MUSIC
00:29:34AI is dramatically increasing demand for energy in a way that the
00:29:36the current systems can't fully cope
00:29:38cope up. I want to listen to people
00:29:42people without it being transactional, transactional, without asking people
00:29:44people for their vote, but listening listening to them. Everything you
00:29:48you go through, you can surmount, surmount, you can endure and find
00:29:52find a good place for it. When the
00:29:54the big names talk, they talk to
00:29:57to us. MUSIC
00:30:13Live from London. This is BBC
00:30:16News. More scrutiny on Fifa president
00:30:18president Gianni Infantino as allegations allegations emerge in the Daily Telegraph
00:30:21Telegraph that a woman he had an an alleged relationship with was
00:30:24was given a six figure severance severance payment while he was general
00:30:28general secretary of Uefa. Fifa says
00:30:29says the story is categorically untrue.
00:30:32untrue. At least three people, including including a child, have been killed
00:30:36killed in overnight Russian attacks attacks near the Ukrainian capital
00:30:39capital Kyiv. The attacks come as as President Zelensky is visiting
00:30:43visiting Serbia, a traditional ally ally of Russia, as he seeks to bolster
00:30:47bolster support for Ukraine's war
00:30:48war effort. And it's the biggest biggest celebration of Irish music
00:30:52music and culture in the world. Belfast Belfast hosts the Fleadh Festival
00:30:56Festival for the first time.