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00:00:09MUSIC
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00:01:15MUSIC Now Now on BBC News. Join our I decoded
00:01:18decoded team as we unpack, explore explore and take a deep dive into
00:01:21into the world of artificial intelligence.
00:01:39Hello, welcome to AI Decoded.
00:01:40We talk about AI and how it's going
00:01:43going to change our jobs constantly. constantly. But here's the honest
00:01:47honest truth most of us don't yet yet fully understand what that will
00:01:51will mean to the future of work.
00:01:53work. We know it's coming. Perhaps
00:01:56Perhaps faster than many of us expected.
00:01:59expected. The question I ask my clients
00:02:02clients is if an AI could take over
00:02:05over all of your team's tasks, who
00:02:08who would you keep and why? That
00:02:12That question is strategic and the
00:02:14the answer matters to me, not just just intellectually, but because
00:02:18because I have two daughters at home.
00:02:21home. They're five and nine. And
00:02:22And right now, as you can see, they
00:02:25they feel invincible. But I keep keep wondering what is the world
00:02:29world of work they will step into?
00:02:32into? We need to build a future where
00:02:34where humans matter more, not less.
00:02:38less. It's not about whether AI replaces
00:02:41replaces us. Of course there will
00:02:43will be some jobs that do go, but but how we redesign the workplace
00:02:46workplace around it. What does that that actually look like in practice?
00:02:50practice? In this programme, we're we're going to try and make sense sense of all that we've brought together
00:02:54together three guests who have talked talked about this subject more than
00:02:57than most. Bernard Ma writes about about AI and business for Forbes.
00:03:01Forbes. He's advised some of the the world's largest organisations
00:03:04organisations on how to use AI effectively.
00:03:07effectively. Ella Hoffman is an associate
00:03:10associate professor at the Free University University in Amsterdam. She spent
00:03:13spent the last two years studying studying what happens when employees
00:03:16employees start using AI tools at at work. And of course, our very
00:03:19very own colleague Prilocalne, CEO
00:03:21CEO of Century Tech, the AI education education company. Welcome to the
00:03:25the three of you. Thanks for being being with us. Priya, I'm going to
00:03:28to start with you. Let me put to to you the premise of our programme.
00:03:31programme. OK. How do we create an
00:03:33an AI workplace of the future in
00:03:36in which humans still matter? I love.
00:03:38love. The fact that. You start our. our. Programme with the most profound
00:03:42profound question. Christian. Just Just that's what we're all asking.
00:03:45asking. No warming up. OK, well,
00:03:48well, look, the way in which we do do this is I think we have to think
00:03:52think about look, if everyone has has AI across the board, it is going
00:03:56going to be the humans that create create the difference. And so how
00:03:59how are we now going to upskill the
00:04:03the people within the workforce so
00:04:04so that they can thrive in that environment? environment? Now if you think about
00:04:08about all of the changes that are are taking place and the companies
00:04:10companies that are, you know, seeing seeing changes with AI, they're reporting
00:04:15reporting positive changes. What's What's really interesting is those
00:04:17those changes take place with tasks, tasks, you know, your role and your
00:04:20your job. If you think about it, it, it's about repetitive tasks,
00:04:24tasks, automating tasks. But what what it's struggling with still is
00:04:27is that sort of strategic direction direction and that judgement. And And so I think companies need to
00:04:31to be thinking about, you know, how how much are we actually investing
00:04:35investing in innovation? How much much are we investing in our people
00:04:37people to have the time to be skilled skilled in this area so that we can can then differentiate ourselves
00:04:41ourselves and humans will then still still be able to flourish in an age
00:04:44age where we have this sort of AI AI augmented workplace. Bernard,
00:04:48Bernard, let's fast forward to 2030,
00:04:502030, the beginning of the next decade. decade. How widely do you think AI
00:04:54AI will have changed the average average job? Help us understand that
00:04:57that first of all, and how you think think it will reshape the average
00:05:00average workplace. Yes. So this is
00:05:02is what I try to help companies understand.
00:05:04understand. And what I'm seeing is
00:05:06is that AI will completely transform
00:05:09transform our jobs. For me, AI is
00:05:12is a superpower that will all we we can all use. It's almost like
00:05:15like having a genie on your shoulder shoulder that allows you to do pretty
00:05:19pretty much anything, or at least least a lot of tasks that previously
00:05:22previously you needed someone else else to help you with. And for me,
00:05:26me, there are three types of AI that
00:05:29that will transform our work in the the future. The first one is generative
00:05:32generative AI. So we are used to
00:05:34to chatbots like ChatGPT and Claude
00:05:37Claude and Gemini, and we use them them to answer questions. And if
00:05:40if you think about a financial adviser,
00:05:42adviser, for example, they can now
00:05:44now offload the data analysis to
00:05:46to the chatbot. They can draft reports
00:05:49reports and they can hopefully spend
00:05:50spend a bit more time building interpersonal
00:05:54interpersonal relationships with with their clients. Then we have
00:05:56have a genetic AI. So the AI that
00:05:58that can do things that can operate
00:06:02operate software that can look things things up on the internet, fill out
00:06:05out forms and. Do those repetitive repetitive jobs that Priya's talking
00:06:08talking about, the jobs that you you do again and again and again again in the same format. Exactly.
00:06:12Exactly. And IBM is a good example. example. They have automated a lot
00:06:15lot of their HR tasks, all the repetitive
00:06:18repetitive tasks. So if you work work in HR today, you actually want
00:06:21want to think about how AI is transforming
00:06:24transforming the company, how we
00:06:26we need to train retrain our people, people, rethink our jobs. And actually
00:06:29actually you get bogged down by answering
00:06:32answering the same questions again
00:06:34again about pension contributions,
00:06:37contributions, about vacation time time and so on. So we can give AI
00:06:40AI those jobs and these AI's can can now fill out forms. They can
00:06:44can search data for you. And then
00:06:47then we have physical AI. And this this is another component. So so
00:06:50so far we've talked about all the the cognitive work. Physical robots
00:06:54robots are getting better as well. well. They're starting to understand understand the physical world much
00:06:57much better. We now have the emergence
00:07:00emergence of world models. So humanoid humanoid robots for example, they
00:07:03they can be trained by simply watching
00:07:06watching videos of how we do things things on YouTube. They can learn
00:07:09learn from that. Right. And, and,
00:07:13and, and all of those will mean that that tasks will change. Right. But
00:07:17But you said that if we were to look look at where we are right now, it's
00:07:21it's not necessarily that AI is replacing
00:07:22replacing the jobs instantly. It's
00:07:25It's that AI is hollowing them out.
00:07:27out. In what sense? So what AI does,
00:07:30does, it will perform the tasks that
00:07:32that we actually don't necessarily necessarily like. So one part of
00:07:36of the job, the repetitive tasks tasks is I work with a company and
00:07:39and their chief AI officer actually actually went into the organisation
00:07:43organisation to ask everyone, what what are the things you don't like
00:07:46like in your job that you would love
00:07:47love the AI to do for you? Because Because we in our jobs, we're not
00:07:51not running out of things to do. do. They're not. We will never run
00:07:55run out of questions and problems problems to solve. What we get distracted
00:07:58distracted by day to day is all the
00:08:00the things, the form filling the,
00:08:04the, the things that take up our our time. So in a positive sense.
00:08:07sense. There could be a freedom that that this creates to focus on more
00:08:10more creative parts of the business. business. Exactly what I believe
00:08:13believe is that it will make our
00:08:15our work more human and actually actually more enjoyable because we
00:08:18we don't get distracted by all the the things that we almost shouldn't
00:08:21shouldn't waste our amazing human human potential to work on. Well,
00:08:24Well, that feels like a good place
00:08:26place to bring in Ella because your
00:08:29your research Ella, has taken you you to very different companies in
00:08:32in the Netherlands and it reveals reveals that employees are already
00:08:36already using these large language language models in their work in
00:08:39in ways that managers can't easily easily see. In what ways are they
00:08:43they using them? Yeah. So we've been
00:08:46been studying ChatGPT since 2022.
00:08:492022. So just after it came out, out, we thought we have to look at at this and we started talking to
00:08:53to people already then about how how are you using this in your work?
00:08:56work? And we found out that they they were playing around with it,
00:08:59it, first of all at home using it it for the silly kind of things that
00:09:02that maybe you're familiar with, with, you know, make me look a different
00:09:04different way. Write a poem, etc etc but then they started figuring
00:09:07figuring out, hey, this could be be useful for work. And so unbeknown
00:09:11unbeknown to managers, without kind kind of approval, they started to
00:09:14to use this technology for brainstorming brainstorming for search as a kind
00:09:18kind of replacement for Google, for for structuring information, polishing
00:09:22polishing text, all these different different ways that they were just
00:09:25just letting it creep into their their everyday work. And it can sound
00:09:28sound kind of innocent in these little
00:09:29little parts, but it has bigger consequences.
00:09:32consequences. Well like what? Well, Well, what we found, for example,
00:09:35example, in our interviews is people people were so happy to not have
00:09:39have to bother their colleagues with with questions. So, you know, previously
00:09:42previously I'd have to go and ask ask my manager or I'd have to bring bring in my business partner who
00:09:46who knows this framework, but now now I don't need them. I can just
00:09:49just ask ChatGPT. And so they were were happy to not have to find out
00:09:53out where their employees are or or their colleagues. You know how how it is with hybrid working. You
00:09:57You never quite sure who's where.
00:09:59where. So easy, convenient. Ask ChatGPT.
00:10:03ChatGPT. So that organic self-learning self-learning on the job, the exchange
00:10:05exchange of information between colleagues colleagues which is creative within
00:10:09within an industry. You worry that that that element is being lost.
00:10:12lost. Yeah. So we see this as a real
00:10:15real challenge for particularly managers managers who might not realise that
00:10:18that this is happening, this erosion erosion of the social ties between
00:10:22between people. And that's a lot lot of what organisations are for. for. We're meant to share knowledge
00:10:26knowledge and learn from one another
00:10:28another and also check the quality
00:10:30quality and accuracy of what's coming coming out of these interactions. interactions. You see what else is
00:10:34is describing there, Priya, is that that this is already happening organically.
00:10:38organically. One employee at a time. time. And if we're to start thinking thinking strategically about this
00:10:42this rather than asking the question, question, who is it going to replace replace my job? This is the sort
00:10:45sort of thing that CEOs and managers managers are going to have to get get a grip of. How is it working
00:10:49working to the benefit of the company, company, and are we all using it
00:10:52it in the same way, in the same direction? direction? Yeah. Well, I think in
00:10:54in the last year I've certainly seen seen a lot of businesses around the
00:10:58the world talking about having some some form of plan, some form, some
00:11:01some form of policy and a strategy strategy because it's not just the
00:11:04the sorts of ways of just using something something to maybe brainstorm instead
00:11:08instead of going to a colleague, colleague, you know, you can't be be putting personal data or commercially
00:11:11commercially sensitive data into into tools that you have a personal
00:11:14personal account for at home. And
00:11:16And so there, I think most CEOs over over the last 12 to 18 months have
00:11:20have said, right, this AI thing, thing, we have to do something. And
00:11:23And what was so interesting is that that because of this programme, actually
00:11:26actually quite a few people will will reach out on LinkedIn or write
00:11:29write to me or meet me and say, and
00:11:32and the CEOs of like 30 to 50 companies, companies, right? So they'll come
00:11:35come up to you and they'll say, Priya,
00:11:37Priya, we're using AI and because
00:11:39because I'm nice, right? I'll smile smile and be really encouraging and
00:11:42and say, that's amazing. So in the the back of my head, I'm just thinking, thinking, what are you talking about?
00:11:46about? And actually when you dig dig deeper, what you find is they've
00:11:50they've bought co-pilot licences licences for all of their staff and
00:11:53and they're just finishing off their
00:11:55their emails using AI. Whereas I
00:11:58I think what we'll start to see because, because, you know, people are savvy
00:12:01savvy to this now how come and we we covered this on this programme, programme, Christian very deeply.
00:12:05deeply. The MIT report that said said that, you know, 95% of organisations
00:12:09organisations aren't getting a return return on investment from AI. And And then there was another report
00:12:12report by McKinsey. Actually 1% of of companies are getting return on
00:12:15on investment companies are now desperate. desperate. They're saying, how can
00:12:18can I be part of the 1%? OK, two
00:12:21two fast thoughts before we talk talk about how we adapt to this.
00:12:24this. If you want an example of what
00:12:26what Priya's talking about there, there, Bernard, the idea that CEOs
00:12:30CEOs think they're using it when when really they're not. You only
00:12:33only need to go and look at some
00:12:34some of the job ads currently on
00:12:37on LinkedIn. 100%. And what we're
00:12:41we're still seeing is jobs. The job
00:12:43job descriptions almost of the last last century as how we've always
00:12:46always done jobs instead of thinking,
00:12:49thinking, how will AI truly change
00:12:52change our jobs? I think you talked
00:12:55talked about coding. And coding.
00:12:58coding. Now Anthropic's Claude, can
00:13:00can perform. They use they use code
00:13:04code to automate 80% of their coding
00:13:05coding tasks. So the jobs need to
00:13:09to change. And what we need to do do is we need to fundamentally rethink
00:13:12rethink our jobs and how we as humans
00:13:15humans bring the best of what we
00:13:17we have is the strategic thinking thinking is the creativity and creative
00:13:20creative problem solving, emotional emotional intelligence building connections
00:13:24connections with other people. These These things AI can't do and we can
00:13:28can bring. And what humans actually actually need to do is they need
00:13:30need to be able to delegate effectively
00:13:33effectively to the AI. And what I'm
00:13:35I'm seeing is that jobs are being being elevated and almost front line
00:13:39line employees are now becoming managers
00:13:44managers of a set of AI tools that
00:13:46that will work for them. And they
00:13:48they need to oversee. His employees
00:13:51employees almost. Listen, I'm I want
00:13:54want to turn to how then we train train for the jobs of the future.
00:13:57future. I want to play you this clip. clip. This is the CEO of BlackRock
00:14:01BlackRock massive company Larry Fink Fink talking to Simon Jack, our economics
00:14:04economics editor this week. Some Some of the things that he says might
00:14:07might just surprise you. AI is going going to create enormous amount of
00:14:11of jobs. Most people are not focusing focusing on part of the letter that
00:14:15that I wrote about how many jobs jobs is going to be creating related
00:14:17related to electricians and welders welders and plumbers. So we should
00:14:20should be telling our kids to be be electricians rather than lawyers
00:14:23lawyers or fund managers. If you
00:14:27you think about how the average worker
00:14:31worker has been portrayed on television
00:14:34television generally the average average plumber had their overalls
00:14:38overalls or their pants, you know,
00:14:41know, hanging below their waistline. waistline. Overweight. We need to
00:14:45to embrace that. Those type of jobs
00:14:47jobs are just as good for many people
00:14:51people post World War II. We built
00:14:53built a foundation of education and
00:14:56and we said to all the young people, people, go to college, go to college,
00:14:59college, go to college and we probably
00:15:03probably overdid it. And so many many people who probably should not
00:15:06not have gone into banking or media
00:15:10media or law probably should have
00:15:11have been a great worker with their
00:15:14their hands. And we need to now rebalance
00:15:19rebalance that approach. So Ella,
00:15:23Ella, he doesn't think that people people should spend an inordinate inordinate amounts, inordinate amounts
00:15:26amounts of money on a university university degree. Right. But we've
00:15:30we've already established that there's
00:15:32there's not a job that is AI proof.
00:15:35proof. That's a myth. So how do you
00:15:38you skill for a job and a future future that we can't yet define?
00:15:42define? Yeah, it's a great question. question. It's one that we bring bring to our students. So I teach
00:15:45teach a course within our International International Business Administration Administration programme. And in
00:15:49in this course, we specifically ask
00:15:51ask who am I in the age of AI? And And this is really something that
00:15:55that students also need to be engaged engaged in this conversation. There's
00:15:58There's no point in saying don't don't use AI. It's a part of their
00:16:02their world. What we need to help help them think about. It's similar
00:16:04similar to what Bernard was saying saying is, what do I bring to the
00:16:07the table now? And these students students are working with social
00:16:10social enterprises. They're solving solving real world problems. Alongside
00:16:14Alongside that, they're reflecting reflecting on this question while
00:16:16while also fine tuning an AI model model to understand how the technical
00:16:20technical side of things works. And And to me, that's what a university
00:16:23university education is about. It's It's about having critical conversations,
00:16:26conversations, learning the latest latest research on this, but also also building your own opinion and
00:16:30and your own perspective and your
00:16:32your own path that also suits your
00:16:34your ideals towards what the future future should be. This is your world,
00:16:38world, I think Priya as well at Century
00:16:40Century Tech you're training people
00:16:42people for jobs that might not yet
00:16:44yet have been defined or even technology
00:16:47technology that's not there. So for for parents and for young people
00:16:50people who might be watching how how should they think about their
00:16:54their education and what they do? do? Yeah, I think AI is definitely
00:16:57definitely shine a spotlight on education
00:16:59education and the flaws in education education and the fact that if we
00:17:02we even talk about school, education, education, college education, how
00:17:06how we actually measure what we measure measure in education. So it's the
00:17:09the assessment process that actually actually I think is the problem,
00:17:11problem, right? People want to train train children and have them study
00:17:15study and learn curricula. That's That's very much built towards an
00:17:18an end, sort of high stakes assessment. assessment. Now it used to be we we take that for granted. We go to
00:17:22to university or we go to college college to further education, college,
00:17:24college, school. And it's a currency, currency, right? That's certificate certificate you end up with those
00:17:28those grades. That's a currency actually actually means something in the real
00:17:31real world. And what Larry Fink is is saying is, you know, does it what
00:17:33what you need to do is think about about education and what it's for,
00:17:36for, right? We need to give foundational foundational knowledge. I really really am a big believer in that.
00:17:40that. And I just don't think we can can just Google everything or search
00:17:43search for everything because we we won't be able to develop those those crucial skills and build judgement.
00:17:47judgement. So foundational. So that's that's the colour of life. Yeah.
00:17:50Yeah. I mean we exist. So we need need that. Foundational knowledge
00:17:53knowledge is number one. Number two two then applied right? How does
00:17:56does this actually work in the real real world? How do I solve problems? problems? And then the third that
00:18:00that I've sort of I like to call
00:18:03call learning agility, this ability ability to learn how to learn so
00:18:06so that we don't end up with generations, generations, you know, cohorts of
00:18:10of students leaving formal education education then thinking, hang on,
00:18:13on, that's not what you said it would would be. It's not a conveyor belt
00:18:16belt to a job. Now what do I do?
00:18:18do? But what about what about Bernard?
00:18:21Bernard? Those you'll hear a lot lot of people say, oh, well, my child
00:18:25child is studying as an accountant accountant and they're being trained
00:18:28trained on spreadsheets and profit profit and loss accounts. But all
00:18:30all of that can now be done by AI. AI. But that is the stepping stone
00:18:34stone to the next level within the the company. What if we remove the
00:18:37the jobs, the lower level jobs that
00:18:41that elevators higher up in the company? company? That's a challenge. I mean,
00:18:44mean, I have three children, they're they're all just getting ready for for university or in university.
00:18:48university. This is something I think think about every single day. I completely
00:18:52completely agree with what you just just said. I wrote a book called called Future Skills in which I look
00:18:56look at the 20 skills we will need
00:18:58need for the future. Three of them them are technically related, so
00:19:01so we need to understand AI and what what it can do beyond. This is what
00:19:05what makes us truly human is our
00:19:07our empathy is our critical thinking
00:19:10thinking is our strategic problem problem solving and is our ability
00:19:13ability to learn and continuously continuously relearn these things
00:19:17things are absolutely vital. So what what we need is companies need to
00:19:21to understand that they need employees employees in the future. So they
00:19:24they need to create tracks into these
00:19:27these organisations that allow young young people to come in. At the moment,
00:19:30moment, I almost feel that there's
00:19:32there's a wrong emphasis. The emphasis
00:19:34emphasis is on driving efficiency efficiency and cutting costs and
00:19:38and that's easy. I can look at my my existing processes and what I
00:19:42I do and think, OK, AI can almost almost do the jobs of most junior
00:19:45junior roles, so I simply cut those those roles. So if I cut those roles,
00:19:49roles, I also cut off my future employees
00:19:52employees and also the ability to
00:19:54to completely rethink how you work work as an organisation. And this
00:19:58this is something that I see very very little happening in the real
00:20:01real world. I see this in a few AI AI native companies, but most companies
00:20:05companies don't get that. And there's there's a really good example of
00:20:07of this, Ella, in a very successful
00:20:10successful company called Klarna, Klarna, people will be familiar with
00:20:12with it. The CEO, they're replaced
00:20:15replaced around 700 jobs with a chatbot chatbot powered by OpenAI, massive
00:20:19massive cost cutting exercise. And And then that was sometime last year.
00:20:22year. And then by December, the company company announced a huge recruitment
00:20:26recruitment drive because the work work delivered by AI was of a lower
00:20:29lower quality but more importantly, importantly, customers wanted a human
00:20:32human in the loop. They wanted that that empathy and that foundational
00:20:36foundational knowledge that Priya Priya talked about. That makes so
00:20:39so much sense. And these sorts of of moves are motivated by all sorts
00:20:42sorts of different incentives in
00:20:44in the end. But we do need to understand
00:20:47understand that the AI hype can often often lead to decisions that are
00:20:50are regretted, and that's why it's it's so important to have a good good technical understanding of what
00:20:53what can this stuff actually do. do. And as Bernard saying, really
00:20:56really think about the future. We're We're hearing a lot of talk at the
00:20:59the moment about diamond shaped organisations. organisations. So you've got a few
00:21:02few people at the top, a kind of of heavy middle of experienced workers.
00:21:06workers. And then we don't need many many entry level positions. But what
00:21:10what does that mean in terms of a a funnel? This doesn't make a whole
00:21:13whole lot of sense. If you're thinking thinking about how you're going to to train newcomers. Effectively.
00:21:16Effectively. What then? Ella, what
00:21:18what if you're a CEO watching this this and you're toying with this
00:21:22this idea of cutting your lower level. level. What would be your advice
00:21:25advice to them? I think it depends depends on the strategy. Are you
00:21:28you looking for a long-term proposition proposition or is this something something that's only oriented towards
00:21:32towards the short-term? So those those temporal horizons make all all the difference. And if you're
00:21:36you're really looking to grow a culture culture and a company that's going going to remain distinctive, then
00:21:39then you do need to pay attention attention to those entry level jobs.
00:21:43jobs. Not just that though. How are are entry level people actually going
00:21:46going to meaningfully interact with with your more senior level management
00:21:49management when no one wants to bother bother each other? Because we've we've all been told we need to be
00:21:53be busy and efficient for a long long time, then people are not going going to reach out with their silly
00:21:56silly questions. But that's how you you actually build relationships, relationships, find mentors, figure
00:22:00figure out how things work. Which Which brings us to an audience question.
00:22:03question. I love our audience question. question. They do emails. Keep coming,
00:22:06coming, keep coming. So this one
00:22:08one is from Saeed al-Marri in Dubai
00:22:11Dubai who runs operations across across two organisations and I'm
00:22:14I'm paraphrasing his email Ella, Ella, because it's quite a long one,
00:22:17one, but essentially he says AI hasn't hasn't just made our team faster.
00:22:21faster. It's allowed a small team team to produce the kind of work
00:22:24work that they used to require external external agencies and consultants
00:22:28consultants to do. So they're bringing bringing stuff in-house that they they would have had to delegate.
00:22:31delegate. And he calls that operating
00:22:34operating leverage. So there is a
00:22:36a man who is fundamentally Bernard Bernard reimagined how his organisation
00:22:40organisation works and how AI is is structured. Within it are the
00:22:43the CEOs you speak to day to day
00:22:47day doing that? No, I think some
00:22:49some of them do. And those will be
00:22:52be the successful CEOs of the future.
00:22:56future. And I think we need to fundamentally
00:22:59fundamentally rethink how we do work work and how humans fit into that
00:23:02that and what an individual can do. do. I even see this in my own in
00:23:06in my own work. So I used to spend
00:23:08spend the first hour of my day reading reading my emails. I get pictures
00:23:11pictures every day from tech companies companies telling me about all the
00:23:14the latest developments and all the
00:23:16the case studies, and I get newsletters
00:23:18newsletters and I try to sift through through this to understand what I
00:23:22I need to focus on. Now I have an
00:23:24an AI to do this for me. The AI will
00:23:26will read it. The AI already knows knows what I know and then turns
00:23:30turns this into a podcast for me. me. So when I go get up in the morning,
00:23:34morning, I walk my dog, listen to to the podcast, and then I can come
00:23:37come back to my office with a good
00:23:40good idea of what I want to do more
00:23:42more research on. So I then set another
00:23:44another AI AI agent off to do this
00:23:46this research for me. While I can
00:23:49can think strategically when I can can think about how do I develop
00:23:53develop relationships with some of
00:23:54of the CEOs I'm working with that
00:23:58that is really empowering. And in in the past I would have had to employ
00:24:01employ a number of people to do this
00:24:02this for me. But in that example
00:24:05example that that Saeed has just
00:24:06just given is Ella. I mean, his AI
00:24:11AI as commendable as it is, is replacing
00:24:14replacing the jobs that consultants consultants and agencies would have
00:24:16have done so at some position in in the food chain. We have to be
00:24:20be pretty blunt about this. There There are jobs going. One thing in
00:24:24in the interim is also to look at
00:24:27at this and go, does this have a a long-term value proposition? So
00:24:29So kind of like the Klarna example.
00:24:31example. And here I mean using AI
00:24:35AI can kind of cause us to overestimate
00:24:37overestimate what we're able to achieve achieve sometimes to our own expertise.
00:24:40expertise. Something might look like like it's good quality code or a
00:24:44a good quality image or a good quality
00:24:47quality website. Will that actually
00:24:49actually hold up to the world? And
00:24:51And as you mentioned, AI as a genie
00:24:54genie and genies are tricksters. tricksters. We call it a spirited
00:24:58spirited technology. It comes at at you with all sorts of little quirks
00:25:01quirks and random, you know, the the extra fingers these things can
00:25:04can get solved, but it takes a trained trained eye to actually detect the
00:25:08the spirited quirks of AI. And we
00:25:10we need to maintain experts at every every level of this process. So I'm
00:25:13I'm happy if people are making it it work for themselves, but it shouldn't shouldn't be seen as something that
00:25:17that can be easily replicated. OK, OK, well, since we're talking about
00:25:21about efficiency and we're near the the end of the programme, I thought thought I would show you this just
00:25:25just to lighten the mood a little, little, which I spotted on X this
00:25:28this week. It does appear to me to to be the most important development
00:25:31development so far, or the development development with the furthest reaching
00:25:34reaching consequences. This is from from a trade show in Switzerland.
00:25:38Switzerland. It's a robot that autonomously
00:25:40autonomously pours, cooks and folds
00:25:43folds the perfect crepe it does.
00:25:46does. It's Swiss, it's not French. French. In fact, I'm surprised the
00:25:49the French have not yet called an an emergency summit on this. Whether
00:25:52Whether it is actually AI or whether whether it's just clever automation,
00:25:56automation, I'm not so sure. But
00:25:57But it has made me wonder. Priya.
00:26:00Priya. You're talking to the person
00:26:02person who lives next to you, has
00:26:05has befriended and like serves coffee coffee every day to the people who who run the famous crepe stand in
00:26:09in London. I draw a line. I'm officially
00:26:11officially drawing a line on crepe. crepe. Is there nothing sacrosanct?
00:26:15sacrosanct? No. There is. I want want my crepes made by Veronica at
00:26:19at the Hampstead Crepes. And I don't don't want Bernabeu. I don't want
00:26:22want Bernard's improving bot improving
00:26:25improving robot flipping my crepes.
00:26:27crepes. I'd love to see a robot peeling peeling off the ceiling. Yeah, yeah,
00:26:30yeah, best of luck with that. That's That's where the humour comes in. in. Let me do that for you. Yeah.
00:26:34Yeah. If Jo Bailey. Gets her way, way, he'll be able to spot the crepe
00:26:37crepe and it will go and scrub it it off for you. Spatial intelligence.
00:26:40intelligence. OK, well, next week week on AI Decoded, we're going to
00:26:44to explore actually one area of work work that is changing how artificial
00:26:47artificial intelligence is transforming transforming the world of advertising
00:26:51advertising from big shared campaigns campaigns to messages tailored specifically
00:26:54specifically for you. You might have have some thoughts on that. So if
00:26:57if you do want to take part, please
00:26:58please email us at AI decoded@bbc.co.uk
00:27:02decoded@bbc.co.uk and maybe we can can incorporate some of those thoughts
00:27:05thoughts in the programme. Thank Thank you very much to Bernard. Thank
00:27:08Thank you Ella. Thank you Priya for for your thoughts this week. That's
00:27:12That's all we have time for. Just Just a reminder that you can watch
00:27:14watch this episode and all our back back catalogue on the AI Decoded
00:27:18Decoded YouTube playlist. Have a
00:27:19a look at that. And also on the BBC BBC iPlayer. Thanks very much for
00:27:23for watching. We'll see you next
00:27:26next week.
00:29:39To find out why. Join me Laura Bicker
00:29:42Bicker here on BBC News. MUSIC
00:30:02MUSIC
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