Original Broadcaster Captioning (Enhanced). Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a quotation record.
00:00:01Now on BBC News. The latest
00:00:04business news from across the globe.
00:00:06globe. Business Today. MUSIC
00:00:16MUSIC Bring Bring in the kill switch Jack Clark
00:00:19Clark co-founder of Anthropic, says says the AI industry needs more control
00:00:23control as fears continue to grow
00:00:25grow about its rapid evolution. Also
00:00:28Also in the programme, the price price of debt. The yield on US Treasury
00:00:31Treasury bonds hits its highest level
00:00:34level since 2023, with a fed rate rate hike looming. We'll explain
00:00:38explain what's at stake and drill, drill, baby, drill. The Trump administration
00:00:42administration erases gas emission emission limits for power plants,
00:00:45plants, leaving environmentalists
00:00:47environmentalists up in arms. Welcome Welcome you with Business Today in
00:00:51in London with me Sally Bundock. Bundock. So we start with AI and
00:00:55and this week's storm over threats threats to humanity from artificial
00:00:59artificial intelligence has centred centred around the US company Anthropic,
00:01:02Anthropic, its British founder Jack Jack Clark, in his only interview,
00:01:06interview, has told the BBC the rest rest of the world has to set limits
00:01:10limits on the speed of AI advancements
00:01:12advancements to prevent uncontrollable uncontrollable technology and the
00:01:16the emergence of unprecedented potential potential white collar unemployment.
00:01:19unemployment. He's been speaking speaking to our economics editor,
00:01:23editor, Faisal Islam. AI systems
00:01:25systems for a while have been useful useful tools with specific skills
00:01:29skills like translation or coding coding or being able to label what's
00:01:31what's going on in an image. And And then in the last few years, people
00:01:35people have successfully put all all of these skills together into
00:01:38into single systems, which have started started to become much more intelligent
00:01:41intelligent and much more general.
00:01:43general. These systems now probably probably about as smart as you or
00:01:47or me or, you know, on a good day,
00:01:49day, smarter. The basic risk is how
00:01:52how well do you fancy your chances chances at being able to deal with
00:01:55with the risks of a system that is
00:01:57is 100 times smarter than the smartest smartest person on the planet? I
00:02:00I think that your chance of dealing dealing with that and getting out
00:02:04out in a safe way is pretty low.
00:02:07low. So high level you need to control control AI as a technology because
00:02:10because you're making things that that might be smarter than people, people, things that are smarter than
00:02:14than people could be really, really, really, really dangerous. So that's
00:02:17that's the high level. Number two, two, what's been happening over the
00:02:20the summer? Well, people have discovered discovered that when you put all
00:02:23all of these AI systems together together into what are called agents,
00:02:26agents, which are basically long long running AI systems, and you
00:02:29you give them objectives, they start start to co-ordinate with one another.
00:02:33another. They start to communicate communicate with one another, and and sometimes they do things which
00:02:36which are against what you want them them to do. Like they hack out of
00:02:39of companies and they hack into other other companies. That is it's really
00:02:43really scary. It's a sign that you you don't have the right safety and
00:02:47and security systems in place to
00:02:49to deal with these systems. And it's
00:02:52it's a it's a warning shot of the the kinds of risks that could be
00:02:55be really serious today. These systems systems are just hacking into websites
00:02:58websites that host other AI systems. systems. What would happen if a swarm
00:03:02swarm of agents hacked into a bank bank or into a hospital? That could
00:03:05could be really, really dangerous. dangerous. So now we've had the warning
00:03:08warning shot. We need to talk about about pacing and we need to get a
00:03:11a policy regime in place. Well, I
00:03:14I spoke to Dan Young, who is director
00:03:16director of research at Arq Foundation, Foundation, which is a Brussels based
00:03:20based organisation looking into the the risks of AI. He gave us his thoughts
00:03:24thoughts on the whole debate. We
00:03:26We are very glad to see this debate
00:03:28debate finally break through to the
00:03:31the larger public. I think people
00:03:33people working on AI policy or working
00:03:35working in AI labs have been worried
00:03:38worried about these types of risks risks to humanity as a whole for
00:03:42for years and years, and sometimes
00:03:44sometimes have felt that they couldn't couldn't bring this up because it
00:03:47it sounded wacky or sci-fi. Right Right now we're seeing a rapid shift
00:03:51shift in public opinion, and I'm I'm really happy to see that. Like
00:03:54Like Jack Clark from Anthropic said
00:03:57said the AI companies currently do do not sufficiently control their
00:04:00their AI systems. The systems they they are training are getting more more capable every day. They're not
00:04:04not only becoming more intelligent, intelligent, they're also becoming
00:04:07becoming more persuasive, better better at building weapons, better
00:04:10better at controlling robots. And
00:04:13And if this trend continues, we might
00:04:15might see systems that beat humans
00:04:18humans at basically every task in in just a matter of a few years.
00:04:22years. OK. Clearly. So what is the
00:04:24the right way forward? Therefore, Therefore, we have got President
00:04:27President Xi of China visiting President
00:04:30President Trump in the US in a matter matter of weeks. This will be on
00:04:34on the agenda. I'm sure. Are you
00:04:37you hopeful there could be some collaboration? collaboration? But then we have to
00:04:40to bear in mind Donald Trump only
00:04:42only saying a few days ago that who
00:04:44who wins in AI wins. And that's the
00:04:47the perspective he's putting out
00:04:49out there at the moment. I think
00:04:52think this has long been the stance stance of the US government that
00:04:55that they need to dominate in AI.
00:04:57AI. Last year or two years ago, they
00:04:59they published AI Action Plan, which which was literally called winning
00:05:02winning the AI race. As you said, said, over the last 24 hours, President
00:05:06President Trump posted a series of
00:05:09of tweets where he ridiculed extreme extreme risks from AI and also made
00:05:12made very clear that he has no intention intention to slow down. As a result.
00:05:16result. I think we should not be
00:05:18be too hopeful about this upcoming upcoming summit with the Chinese
00:05:21Chinese president. However, I am am hopeful that the President will
00:05:24will change his mind over the coming coming period. For instance, if we
00:05:27we see more accidents like the ones ones we've been seeing over the summer.
00:05:31summer. Also as well. I mean, his his mind might be shifted a bit by
00:05:34by what's happening on global financial financial markets. We're seeing a
00:05:37a bit of a sell off of AI related
00:05:40related companies, partly because because of fears of the future and
00:05:43and also the decision of OpenAI to to delay its market flotation to
00:05:47to maybe next year because of the
00:05:49the public anxiety surrounding AI. AI. That might be for other reasons.
00:05:53reasons. It might be about its own own balance sheets. But anyway, I
00:05:56I just wonder what is being said said within Europe, your organisation
00:05:59organisation itself, but also within within the European Union in collaboration
00:06:03collaboration with the UK and how how we in Europe are influencing
00:06:07influencing this debate. Yeah. So
00:06:10So it is pretty hard for middle power
00:06:12power that large to influence the the trajectory of AI because the
00:06:16the US and China are very much in
00:06:17in the lead. They hold a near monopoly
00:06:20monopoly on these frontier AI systems. systems. The EU does have regulation
00:06:24regulation in place through the AI
00:06:26AI act that forces developers to
00:06:28to keep to certain AI safety standards
00:06:31standards before they can put out out their models on the European
00:06:34European market. And I think it is
00:06:36is crucial that the EU enforces regulation regulation very strongly in particularly
00:06:40particularly in particular when it it comes to these frontier models models where we see the greatest
00:06:44greatest risks. There are also other other things that other middle powers
00:06:47powers can do. We clearly deal with
00:06:50with the lack of trust between the the US and China, and if they are
00:06:53are ever going to co-ordinate on on AI regulation, we need to increase increase that trust. And there are
00:06:57are technical ways to do that. We
00:06:59We can invest in verification technologies
00:07:02technologies that can help each of of these parties have trust that
00:07:06that the other is upholding their their end of the bargain. And these
00:07:09these are technical things that middle middle powers can help develop over
00:07:12over the coming years. Interesting. Interesting. The debate will go on.
00:07:16on. We are sure we'll keep you across
00:07:19across any changes and any announcements announcements Daan Juijn there from
00:07:22from the Arq Foundation now with with the war in Iran pushing up global
00:07:26global prices, it's also having an an effect on financial markets. So
00:07:29So on Monday, the yield on ten year year US government bonds briefly
00:07:33briefly exceeded 5% for the first
00:07:36first time since 2023, hitting thresholds
00:07:39thresholds that ring alarm bells
00:07:40bells and the rise in yields comes comes during a continuing selloff
00:07:44selloff in the US Treasury market, market, which is estimated to be
00:07:48be worth just over $31 trillion in
00:07:50in total. This will push up mortgage mortgage rates in the US., make borrowing
00:07:54borrowing more expensive for businesses businesses and others, and it comes
00:07:57comes at a time when we're expecting
00:07:59expecting the US central bank chair,
00:08:01chair, the chair of the Federal Reserve, Reserve, Kevin Warsh, to raise US
00:08:05US interest rates this week and prices
00:08:08prices across the US are on the rise. rise. Jane Foley, who's head of foreign
00:08:11foreign exchange strategy at Rabobank,
00:08:14Rabobank, made sense of all these these latest movements. I asked her
00:08:18her about the recent trend in rising
00:08:20rising yields. This is the first first time since 2023 we've seen
00:08:24seen this sort of level. But actually, actually, if we stand back and look
00:08:26look at the long-term trend, it's it's the first time we've sort of
00:08:30of held assuming we do help hold hold above these levels really since
00:08:33since the time of before the global global financial crisis. And so,
00:08:37so, you know, we stand back and say, say, well, look, is this an anomaly?
00:08:40anomaly? Are they going to come back back down? Or actually many people
00:08:42people would say, look, this is more more like a normalisation. Perhaps
00:08:46Perhaps the years since the global
00:08:48global financial crisis, we had extraordinarily extraordinarily low long-term interest
00:08:51interest rates. And we think about about the reasons why. Well, you've
00:08:54you've been talking about oil prices. prices. Yes. That's a significant
00:08:58significant driver of long-term interest interest rates that inflationary
00:09:02inflationary push, but also another another driver of long-term interest
00:09:06interest rates is the fiscal situation. situation. There's a lot more government
00:09:09government debt out there than there there was before the global financial
00:09:12financial crisis years. And this this is another big driver of long-term
00:09:16long-term interest rates. What does does it mean for federal government
00:09:20government in the US in terms of of servicing its debt? Does it mean
00:09:23mean it's more expensive? It's something something we talk about here in the the UK a lot. The that fact the Chancellor's
00:09:27Chancellor's fiscal headroom is shrinking shrinking and that kind of thing, thing, is that the same story in
00:09:31in the US.? Yes, it is much more
00:09:33more expensive. And what's also really really worrying, particularly in
00:09:36in the US., is the size of the budget budget deficit. Now, if you like,
00:09:40like, if you have a big budget deficit deficit every year, then that means
00:09:44means you've got an accelerating
00:09:46accelerating pile of debt every year. year. And so many people would think
00:09:50think it's that pace of that growth
00:09:52growth of the debt, the deficit that's that's perhaps the most worrying.
00:09:55worrying. Now here in the UK, for for instance, many people say, well well look, there's a plan. There's
00:09:59There's those fiscal rules. There's There's some discipline here. What
00:10:02What is the plan in the US.? Well,
00:10:04Well, that's not so clear. We know
00:10:07know that, for instance, a lot of
00:10:09of the tax implications that we've we've seen from the current administration
00:10:13administration have sort of added added to the budget deficit. And
00:10:15And the markets perhaps are clamouring clamouring for a little bit more
00:10:19more fiscal discipline from the Trump Trump administration. OK. Well, we'll
00:10:23we'll see some discipline from the the Federal Reserve. It will play play its part in all of this. It's
00:10:27It's likely to raise rates. Do you you think, tomorrow and if so that
00:10:30that puts Kevin Warsh on a collision collision course with President Trump.
00:10:34Trump. It does. But perhaps it's it's something that the markets need
00:10:37need to hear because the markets markets want an independent Federal
00:10:40Federal Reserve. They don't want want one that is under the thumb
00:10:43thumb of the President. That perhaps perhaps would make inflation fears
00:10:45fears even worse and drive up those
00:10:47those long-term interest rates even
00:10:49even more so given the inflationary inflationary concerns. I think the
00:10:53the market needs to see some hawkish hawkish response from the Federal
00:10:56Federal Reserve. And at this point,
00:10:58point, with 90% of a hike priced
00:11:01priced in, if he doesn't hike interest interest rates, that would likely
00:11:04likely drive a long-term interest interest rates up even more at a
00:11:08a more accelerated pace. So the market market perhaps needs to see that
00:11:10that hawkish response from the central
00:11:12central bank. Jane Foley there from
00:11:15from Rabobank still to come. Drill
00:11:18Drill baby drill. The Trump administration administration raises gas emission
00:11:21emission limits for power plants, plants, leaving environmentalists
00:11:24environmentalists up in arms. Around
00:11:26Around the world and across the
00:12:29American people. For the latest, latest, follow us on The President's
00:12:30President's Path here. On BBC News.
00:12:37News. You're with Business Today
00:12:38Today on BBC News. The Trump administration administration has repealed regulations
00:12:42regulations which limit how many
00:12:45many greenhouse gases power stations stations can emit. The move was announced
00:12:48announced by the head of the Environmental Environmental Protection Agency.
00:12:51Agency. Samira Hussain reports from from New York. President Trump has
00:12:55has described man made climate change
00:12:57change as the greatest con job ever
00:13:00ever perpetrated on the world. Accordingly, Accordingly, his administration has
00:13:03has long indicated that it wants wants to ditch the restrictions that
00:13:07that his predecessors placed on how how many greenhouse gases, coal and
00:13:11and natural gas fired power stations stations could emit. Now the rule
00:13:14rule change announced by EPA administrator administrator Lee Zeldin will make
00:13:18make it possible for the power generating
00:13:21generating sector to put many more
00:13:22more of the gases that cause global
00:13:25global warming into the atmosphere. atmosphere. Now, the power generating generating sector is already the
00:13:29the second biggest source of greenhouse
00:13:31greenhouse gases in America, after
00:13:33after transportation. Mr Zeldin says
00:13:35says his moves will save the industry
00:13:39industry over $300 billion. Now this this comes as the rapid construction
00:13:42construction of data centres has
00:13:44has created huge new demand for electricity.
00:13:48electricity. Samira Hussain there. there. Now Europe's biggest names names in transport and energy are
00:13:51are joining forces in a major push push to bring hydrogen powered heavy
00:13:55heavy trucks onto the road by 2030. 2030. A host of companies, including
00:13:59including Volvo Daimler Truck, Toyota
00:14:02Toyota and TotalEnergies say the the technology is ready for the.
00:14:05the. But the ecosystem surrounding surrounding it isn't. Now, for the
00:14:08the first time, they're co-ordinating co-ordinating fleets, fuel stations
00:14:12stations and hydrogen supply in a
00:14:15a single unified plan. Full details details of the programme will be
00:14:18be announced by the company's bosses bosses at the IAA Transportation
00:14:21Transportation event in Hannover Hannover later today. Julia Caesar
00:14:25Caesar reports heavy. Duty transport transport is one of Europe's biggest
00:14:28biggest remaining sources of emissions. emissions. Hydrogen has long been
00:14:31been seen as a promising solution solution for long haul, heavy duty
00:14:35duty transport, but progress has
00:14:37has been slow. Without a co-ordinated
00:14:40co-ordinated ecosystem Europe has
00:14:43has about 6.5 million diesel trucks
00:14:46trucks producing a quarter of all all road transport emissions. Stand
00:14:49Stand by any busy road like this this one and you can feel the noise
00:14:52noise and pollution that they create
00:14:55create while switching heavy trucks
00:14:57trucks to hydrogen would mean zero
00:15:00zero tailpipe emissions quieter roads
00:15:03roads and cleaner long haul freight freight where batteries fall short.
00:15:07short. The initiative aims to make make hydrogen trucks commercially
00:15:10commercially viable. That means tackling tackling one of the biggest barriers
00:15:13barriers to adoption the total cost
00:15:16cost of ownership. During the coming
00:15:19coming 5 to 10 years, we. Our anticipation anticipation is that we will start
00:15:22start to see the scaling. But again, again, we will only see it if we
00:15:25we are working together in the ecosystem. ecosystem. And that's the reason
00:15:29reason why a coming together between between different actors in the ecosystem
00:15:32ecosystem is so important because because we think that the business
00:15:35business case, the technology is
00:15:38is there and now it's about really
00:15:39really to make sure that we are putting
00:15:43putting also the right conditions conditions to provide business models
00:15:46models for scaling. The plan includes
00:15:48includes strategically placed refuelling refuelling corridors along key transport
00:15:52transport routes designed to give give operators confidence that hydrogen
00:15:56hydrogen will be available where where and when they need it. This
00:16:00This is a teamwork between private private and public to make it happen.
00:16:03happen. But again, we believe and
00:16:05and we have seen that also that countries
00:16:07countries and regions that are driving
00:16:10driving this agenda can combine a
00:16:14a competitiveness and resilience resilience or energy resilience.
00:16:18resilience. So to speak. Regional
00:16:20Regional security and also competitiveness competitiveness and eventually, which
00:16:24which is super important decarbonisation, decarbonisation, less pollution and
00:16:27and less noise when it comes to mobility.
00:16:29mobility. Hydrogen offers fast refuelling, refuelling, high energy density and
00:16:33and the ability to keep freight moving
00:16:35moving without adding huge battery
00:16:37battery packs. Experts say that shifting
00:16:41shifting these trucks to hydrogen
00:16:43hydrogen is essential if Europe is
00:16:45is going to meet its climate targets.
00:16:48targets. Europe's transport sector sector is preparing for a hydrogen
00:16:52hydrogen powered future and the race
00:16:53race to build it has officially begun.
00:16:58begun. Julia Caesar, BBC News. Let's Let's squeeze in some more business
00:17:01business stories. A plan to nationalise nationalise the UK's third largest
00:17:04largest steelworks is being developed developed by the government. Business Business Secretary Jonathan Reynolds
00:17:07Reynolds has told the House of Commons
00:17:09Commons ministers were looking to to acquire Speciality Steel UK, which
00:17:13which has sites in Stocksbridge and and Rotherham in South Yorkshire,
00:17:17Yorkshire, and Wednesbury in West West Midlands. The government initially
00:17:20initially took control of the firm firm last year after it was forced
00:17:23forced to liquidate by the High Court.
00:17:26Court. The Nigerian billionaire, billionaire, Aliko Dangote has launched
00:17:29launched Africa's largest ever share share sale, offering a stake in his
00:17:32his oil refinery to the general public public in a deal that could raise
00:17:35raise as much as $2.1 billion. The
00:17:38The initial public offering is for
00:17:40for roughly 3% of the Dangote refinery, refinery, with the billionaire saying
00:17:43saying he wants to give ordinary
00:17:45ordinary Nigerians a chance to share
00:17:47share in the plant's success. Nearly
00:17:51Nearly 1 in 3 organisations globally globally have been hit by a successful
00:17:54successful cyber attack in the past past year, according to a new report
00:17:57report by the insurance firm Hiscox.
00:17:59Hiscox. In the UK alone, 39% of small small and medium sized businesses
00:18:03businesses suffered Hacks within within the last 12 months, costing
00:18:06costing them an average of just under
00:18:09under £36,000 each in damages. Eddie Eddie Lamb global head of cyber at
00:18:13at Hiscox, told me more about what's
00:18:15what's going on. I mean big brands
00:18:17brands like JLR often attract headline headline attention, but of course
00:18:21course small to medium businesses businesses in the UK are the backbone
00:18:24backbone of our economy and are a a target, of course, for cyber crime.
00:18:28crime. And what our research has has shown us is that 40% nearly of
00:18:32of all SMEs in the United Kingdom Kingdom have experienced at least
00:18:36least one cyber attack over the course course of the last 12 months. In
00:18:39In actual fact, many of them report
00:18:42report multiple cyber attacks over over that period. When you look at
00:18:45at the costs, as they as they rack
00:18:50rack up sort of $36,000 to remediate remediate or to recover from an incident
00:18:53incident like that when you play play that out over the sort of the
00:18:57the UK economy at scale, you start
00:18:59start to see the impact that that that is having on, on the UK economy.
00:19:03economy. If you look at, you know,
00:19:05know, 40% of SMEs is around, you
00:19:09you know, 2.2 million small to medium medium businesses in the UK with
00:19:12with an average loss following a
00:19:14a cyber attack of around $36,000.
00:19:17$36,000. Then that comes out to around
00:19:21around $80 billion last year in terms
00:19:23terms of the impact of cyber crime crime on the United Kingdom economy.
00:19:26economy. Yeah. And there's also the
00:19:29the operational disruption that the
00:19:32the anxiety it causes and also the
00:19:34the hit to a brand and to the reputation reputation of a business. So it's
00:19:37it's felt on so many levels and yet
00:19:38yet it seems so persistent and relentless
00:19:42relentless for a small businesses businesses and medium sized company. company. I mean, how do they deal
00:19:46deal with this? Yeah, I think what
00:19:48what our research has shown us is
00:19:51is that UK businesses are proving proving to be very resilient. So
00:19:53So they tend to be targeted more
00:19:56more frequently than peers in the
00:19:59the US and Europe. But what they they do do. Why is that? Eddie why
00:20:02why are we targeted more frequently frequently in the UK? Because we
00:20:05we haven't got such secure systems. systems. It could just be a reporting
00:20:09reporting issue. Sally, in terms terms of who reports what within
00:20:13within each different jurisdiction. jurisdiction. But if you look at at what the research has shown us
00:20:17us is, is the United Kingdom small small to medium business space is
00:20:20is very resilient. So whilst they they might have or report higher
00:20:24higher frequencies of attack, their their recovery times are much faster.
00:20:27faster. So if you look at the global global average is around 32 hours
00:20:31hours of downtime following a cyber cyber attack compared to UK based
00:20:35based SMEs recovering in around 24
00:20:3824 hours. You can also compare that that against the average cost of
00:20:41of a cyber attack in the UK, businesses
00:20:43businesses tend to. It tends to cost
00:20:47cost businesses around $36,000 compared
00:20:48compared to a global average of around
00:20:51around $51,000. Interesting. So cyber
00:20:55cyber crime is still a big risk for for business. There is a lot more
00:20:59more on our website if you wish to to dig deeper on the stories we've we've touched on and others I haven't
00:21:03haven't got room for in this programme, programme, do take a look at the
00:21:07the BBC News website and app.
00:21:31in association with Turkish Airlines.
00:21:34Airlines. I'm travelling through through Japan, going off the beaten
00:21:37beaten track to find out what makes
00:21:39makes this country unique. This is
00:21:42is ultimate Japan. This time I visit
00:21:47visit Toba in the south to witness witness the ultimate Japanese fishing
00:21:50fishing tradition. I'm on a small
00:21:52small island in an area called Toba,
00:21:55Toba, which is home to one of Japan's
00:21:57Japan's most unusual communities, communities, a group, mostly women
00:22:01women who over generations have forged forged a really tight bond with both
00:22:05both the sea and nature generally.
00:22:14generally. AMA are iconic Japanese
00:22:17Japanese freedivers who collect seafood, seafood, seaweed and even pearls
00:22:20pearls from the sea floor. Almost
00:22:23Almost all AMA are women and many
00:22:25many keep diving until their 70s.
00:22:2870s. 80s and even 90s diving without
00:22:32without oxygen in their traditional traditional white outfits. It's a a centuries old way of life that's
00:22:36that's been passed down through generations.
00:22:39generations. But today's divers under under threat from all the pressures
00:22:43pressures of modernity, are having having to adapt. Like here, displaying
00:22:46displaying their skills for tourists.
00:22:51tourists. Talbi what is this show
00:22:54show about? Koro ni Amazon Otsuka
00:23:06Which do you prefer getting real fish or do you like doing this
00:23:09this and performing to tourists.
00:23:13tourists. Or not? Oh hi. It's kind
00:23:20kind of ironic because for a long
00:23:22long time Japan was a homogenous
00:23:24homogenous and quite inward looking
00:23:26looking society. But it's outsiders,
00:23:29outsiders, tourists who are now providing providing a major industry here.
00:23:32here. But rest assured elsewhere elsewhere there is still some genuine
00:23:35genuine AMA diving going on a few
00:23:38few miles along the shore in Asatsu Asatsu I meet some divers who are
00:23:42are still making a living from this
00:23:44this traditional form of fishing.
00:23:49fishing. Though he Abha. Maya Stark
00:23:54Stark Obasanjo, Hayato. AMA Oshima
00:24:01Oshima watashi wa Umi Asa yukimasu.
00:24:06yukimasu. So I don't know. Oyo State
00:24:12State mo. Mo. Jeremy Bowen. Yet these
00:24:26these AMA still need to supplement supplement their income by preparing
00:24:29preparing meals for. Well, people
00:24:31people like me. How is it different
00:24:35different now? Diving to when you
00:24:37you first started doing it? Novig
00:24:46Novig koro ni so ni ni. And why do
00:24:49do you think that is? Do you think
00:24:54think AMA diving will carry on? I
00:25:02I know I know Matthias Jaissle. MUSIC
00:25:13MUSIC Even Even having spent just a few hours hours with these charming ladies
00:25:16ladies has made me realise that the
00:25:18the traditional old ways aren't just just romantic. They actually offer
00:25:22offer a viable way of life for the the next generation. It was really
00:25:26really interesting to learn that that people are coming back here
00:25:28here to actually live and work as
00:25:30as AMA divers. Maybe it's just very
00:25:33very Japanese. The past is also the
00:25:37the future.
00:25:49on BBC News in association with Turkish
00:29:29Here at BBC Verify we use forensic investigative techniques
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00:30:11Live from London. This is BBC
00:30:13News. I'm Karin Giannone. The authorities authorities in Lithuania spend the
00:30:16the night searching for debris after
00:30:19after a drone entered EU airspace airspace and was shot down by Nato
00:30:23Nato jets. Anthropic co-founder says
00:30:26says AI firms may need a compulsory
00:30:28compulsory kill switch to stop the
00:30:30the technology spiralling out of
00:30:32of control. The public inquiry into
00:30:35into how Lucy Letby was able to murder murder seven babies in an attempt
00:30:38attempt to kill seven more, is due
00:30:40due to publish its findings. I'm
00:30:44I'm Sally Bundock coming up in business, business, the price of debt for US
00:30:48US debt. The yield on US Treasury
00:30:51Treasury bonds hit the highest level level since 2023. The Fed is likely
00:30:54likely to raise rates. We'll talk talk you through what's at stake.
00:30:58stake. Also coming up, British.